Welcome to Rhythms of Progress, where we explore how music and artists are the unsung heroes
of political movement and social advancement.
I'm Shozzett Silva, but you can call me Lizzard.
Yes, like the reptile.
On today's episode we have...
Oh, hi.
You seem like an incredible human.
Who are you?
My name's Micayla Cook.
I am a senior English and Communications double major here at UD.
I'm studying journalism, mainly.
I'm the news director down here at VUD, and I'm also the development officer upstairs
with The Reveal.
But you also write about music.
I do.
I try.
Um, dream job for me is absolutely like Rolling Stone.
So like, I was gonna say, I don't know if they want me, because they're hiring a lot
of men right now.
But Rolling Stone, at least from my perspective as of late, has mostly just been like older
like dudes.
I don't know, like obviously like they have their hits and they have their misses, but
like there was some article that I read, like a 50 year old guy being like, Olivia Rodrigo
doesn't make sense to me.
And I was like, yeah, of course it doesn't.
This was Sour.
So she was like a 19 year old girl.
I'm like, she's a teenage girl.
Of course the thoughts that she's trying to express aren't relatable to you.
She's like a middle aged guy.
That article I think stuck with me just because it like frustrated me.
Dear Micaela Cookie, I say you write a response article to Rolling Stone and put it in your
portfolio.
Like three months later.
Why not?
Honestly, you're right.
Why Rolling Stone?
One of the only things I could get my dad to like agree to read to me as a kid was Rolling
Stone.
As a kid, like my first love was a hundred percent like the written word.
Like I've been a writer since like the day I was born pretty much like taught myself
how to read when I was like three.
And I'm just a nerd.
But I like wanted my parents to read to me all the time.
Like that is all I ever wanted to do.
I just wanted people to read to me.
And my dad worked a lot because my mom was a stay at home mom for the first couple years
of my life because my younger brother was a pretty difficult baby.
So like sometimes she'd be like with my brother or she'd be sleeping and like my dad would
be home and I would want somebody to read to me and he would usually end up reading
like music journalism like Rolling Stone and stuff like that.
I remember when I first was explaining to him like I think I might want to do like journalism.
He was like like Rolling Stone and I was like, you know, that's that's not a bad idea actually.
And that that's your dream job. Do you interview bands?
Yes, I have one piece from last semester that I wrote for the review that I'm actually pretty
proud of.
You know, the secret tunnel?
Yes, it was like your piece.
Thank you.
But yeah, it was like an underground like I wrote a piece about that closing and interviewed
the people who ran it, some bands that have performed there, some like concert goers.
And that was like a really cool piece.
I think I'm happy with the way that that one came together.
Yeah, I liked it.
Thank you.
You're a really good storyteller.
You show the history, but it's very well rounded the way you tell stories.
I really appreciate that.
What's the biggest thing you've seen music do culturally or politically?
It's a huge question because music has really done a lot that it's not often given credit
for.
No, I completely agree.
I think that music has the power to unite a generation politically that very few other
things do.
And this has been seen like in multiple generations, not just Gen Z, in that like, we didn't start
the fire by Billy Joel was like huge.
And that song is political.
That song is so political.
Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnny Ray, South Pacific, Walter Wichita, Joe DiMaggio,
John McCartney, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, television, North Korea, South Korea, Maryland.
It united a generation to kind of wake up to the political world that they were living
in.
And I think that if that hadn't been in like a catchy little like synthy hook, I don't
know if it would have done the same thing.
But so many people heard that song and then were like politically engaged based on that
song.
So many songs kind of have their moment because music has the ability to put emotions into
words that you can't just say.
I think that everybody in the world probably has a song that like comes to mind when you
say like, oh, I didn't know I was feeling that until you just said that.
And now I'm like, oh my god, you're so right.
Like I totally feel like that.
It helps us emotionally regulate.
Exactly.
In a way that I don't think many other things do.
And I think that music has such a uniting power to it that I think it's a very important
tool politically.
Political movements need soundtracks.
Most political movements throughout history, major ones at least, have songs that were
like theirs.
There's a reason for that because music is a very, very important vehicle to political
change because it's such an accessible way to reach a person.
And that you can just hear it on the radio or you can really get in there and get down
in the trenches and fight for something.
Or you can just like the song.
I don't know.
I think that music and the way that it affects culture is so, so fascinating.
Music is very political. It makes you pay attention to the things you normally
would ignore.
Perhaps one of the most well-known examples of activism through music is Woodstock, with
John Byas, Bob Dylan, Richie Havens, Jimi Hendrix, Jonny Mitchell, and more.
Artists who performed to protest against the Vietnam War in support of women's rights,
protecting the planet, and the civil rights movement.
The last three were still fighting for.
But it was more than a concert.
It was peaceful defiance.
2016 was when Trump was running for the first time.
So I was in sixth grade and most people were like, well, what do you think?
What do you think of the election?
Because it was the first one where we were old enough to be paying attention.
How old are you in sixth grade?
I was 12 or 13.
Judicial age.
Yeah.
Also, my dad is very conservative and is a very big Trump supporter.
I always joke that he doesn't like my career, but it's his fault.
Because I saw what misinformation can do.
And I was like, no, that's not going to happen to anybody else on my watch.
So he may not like my career, but he's the one that drove me to it.
I love my father.
I just think that he's wrong about a lot of things politically.
But he knows that.
Sixth grade was the first time I started to form a bit of my own opinion, because I had
an internet connection for the first time in my life.
Discovered that what my dad was saying wasn't the only option, essentially.
Because my mom is a Democrat, but she's also the type of person who doesn't really watch
the news, because she's like, it makes me sad.
Which I think is fair, because my mom's a Buddhist.
She's a very Zen type of person, and it messes with her Zen.
News fatigue is a very real thing.
So the only political voice I had in my life for a while was my dad.
And then I started to do my own research and realized that I didn't believe the same things
that my dad did.
I think that really solidified in 2020, because I was 16 when the pandemic started, and another
very pivotal age, I think.
And that was also when Black Lives Matter was happening.
Because what else was I going to do, other than go on the internet and learn about things?
The pandemic and Black Lives Matter gave us deep lessons, like how to wash our hands properly,
unmute our Zoom, and ourselves in real life.
Speaking about musing, were you using your voice with crowds?
Or were you on the Wi-Fi sidelines or sofa saying, yeah, take that systemic racism?
I went to a Black Lives Matter protest in 2020, and people were chanting.
And there's a reason that people do that.
It's just easier.
So you put them in a song, and it makes it a little bit more palatable, and also it sticks
in your head.
Yeah, it's nice and catchy.
Exactly.
Like, it's an easy vehicle to initiate change through.
Music, a powerful force.
Artists use their music to protest police brutality towards Black Americans and other
injustices.
The band Zeal and Ardor's album, Wake of a Nation, was a direct response to Mr. Floyd's
murder.
The musician Elijah Blake re-released Hangin' Tree, a song written in response to the death
of 43-year-old Eric Gardner, who lost consciousness as a police officer locked him in an illegal
chokehold.
Music is never just background noise.
It is a catalyst for action, a call for change.
Justice.
I also was kind of discovering albums for the first time, and being like, well, I have
time now to sit with my headphones on for an hour and just sit through a whole album.
I got really into the 1975 at the time, which I know is controversial.
And their lead singer is a terrible person, and it breaks my heart because I think he's
a musical genius.
But also, he hadn't done a lot of the stuff that made me think he's a bad person yet in
2020.
Well, there's something to look at because you separate the artist from the person, but
it's a little bit difficult sometimes.
Exactly.
And then you get into separating the art from the artist, which I have to do in that case,
kind of, because I love the 1975's music so much.
I kind of was like, I don't want to do this without that music.
Because one of the first albums that really kind of hit me was, they have an album that
came out in 2018 called A Brief Inquiry Into Online Relationships, and that had a song
called Love It If We Made It.
Like, it's a very deeply political song.
I was telling you, I have it tattooed on my arm.
My arm says the poetry is in the street in French because I'm pretentious.
But thank you.
The churches belong to all of us and the earth belongs to all of us.
I think that's a lovely way to look at that.
You evolve as an artist and as a human.
I think there's a lot of learning in that.
If you want to separate, that's your journey.
That's between you and therapists or whatever.
That's not my business.
Yeah, because also I think a lot of people aren't ready for the conversation that most
of the 80s pop stars were not good people.
Like Michael Jackson.
Listen, he's the king of pop, but also like those pedophile allegations come out like
every couple of years and people just ignore them because he was good at music.
Things should definitely not be ignored.
Yeah, but that's the thing is people are always like, well, you don't know if it's real.
And I'm like, do you believe the victim?
Because the victim said it happened.
People don't make stuff up like this.
That's kind of where I'm at.
And then I'm like, if we're believing victims, then we believe victims across the board.
Like, I think that a lot of people who say like you can't separate the art from the artist
because like I don't like I don't listen to Kanye because I think that he's like insane.
The political beliefs that he has chosen to voice are completely bonkers and in my mind
fairly unacceptable.
And I think that's how a lot of people feel.
Also he hasn't made a good album in years.
Respectfully, he has not made a good album in years.
And mentally ill doesn't mean bad.
Mentally ill doesn't mean bad.
I think that he hit the point of being bad when he got on national television and said
Hitler had some good points.
We don't have to agree with him.
One of the things that artists help us do is talk through challenging situations, mental
illness, Hitler, ignoring it doesn't work.
I'm not a fan of banning books or erasing history.
Let's put things out there and discuss with the intent to understand, maybe learn something.
No, I completely agree in that like I'm against censorship across the board.
And I think part of that is my profession in that people often will try to censor the
free press.
And like that's one of the 10 identified steps of fascism is to discredit and then censor
the free press.
Because the free presses job is kind of to keep government and people in power in check
and make sure that they continue to serve the people's best interest.
So once you're not serving the people's best interest anymore, then you have to make people
think that the media is lying to them.
It's interesting because when that happens, artists and journalists like yourself hold
politicians and others accountable.
And after when people are being held accountable by people in the public eye, they'll turn
around and say, oh, you're just a singer.
You're just an artist.
Or just shut up and dribble.
But the fact is, they are artists and citizens.
They have a right to a political opinion.
They empower themselves and others to help people feel less alone.
I think there's a lot of nuance to that because obviously, like, I do think that within the
internet age, people get to a point where like, they almost demand for singers and comedians
and like anyone like famous to immediately make a statement as soon as there's any kind
of political issue going on, which to me, I'm like, they signed up to sing songs.
I think Taylor Swift is a great songwriter.
I don't need to know her political beliefs.
If she wants to tell me, that's fine.
And that's her right as an American.
Or like that goes for foreign artists as well.
It's their right to tell me what they think politically.
But I don't think that's a requirement of the job.
Like I see the argument for like, you have a platform, you should be like commenting
on major issues.
But for me, I'm like, if I were in that position, like, I get stuff wrong too.
Human beings get stuff wrong.
And like, for me, I wouldn't want to make a statement on like a massively complicated
global issue if I didn't know for sure that I was going to say the right thing, which
takes time.
I agree with you.
I don't think you should be obligated because you say so much through your art.
Yeah.
And I think that there is an argument as well for the fact that musicians, a lot of their
careers are inherently political.
And that like, yeah, or even just like a lot of politicians first songs are just about
things that they're pissed about going on in the world, which like, is completely fair.
I think that some people like, is Taylor Swift's opinion on Israel and Palestine going to change
yours?
Because like, obviously, it's a huge thing.
And people need to be raising awareness.
But also, she hasn't said anything.
It's been a year.
And people don't seem to be that mad at her.
I don't know.
I think it's a very interesting world that we live in because especially like, and again,
musicians, a lot of them are inherently political.
I think that people got very mad at quite a few celebrities when Israel and Palestine
kind of like rocketed into the global consciousness after the October 7th attack last year.
And I think that some of them were unfounded and some of them were founded.
One of the celebrities that people got mad at was the 1975 Didn't Say Anything.
And I was like, okay, you can't get mad at people for expecting you to be politically
active when you have been.
Like don't be political only when it benefits you.
Like if you care so much about politics and you that to the point where you want to make
it like part of your like brand, like love it if we made it by the 1975 was a huge song.
And it was a song that like they were, I'm pretty sure it was a single.
Like they, and that is a very political song.
It's very staunchly anti-Trump.
It's essentially just talking about like the disenfranchisement that young people nowadays
in particular are feeling politically.
And saying like, Hey, the world is a mess, but God wouldn't, wouldn't you love it if
we made it?
Like, I don't know if we will, but wouldn't it be great if we did?
Like, it's a, it's a political song.
So like now that you've kind of solidified yourself as a person who talks about politics,
there's still politics going on.
You can't like just dip your toe into politics.
And then like the second that people want more, I guess from you, then you can't like
get mad at them for that.
You set the expectation that you were going to say something.
I see a point to that.
But then there's also, I don't know what's going on in their life.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's a, that's a completely fair consideration.
Cause also like, while that was happening, like the lead singer like got engaged and
stuff like that.
So I'm like, he seems to have like stuff going on.
That's personal life and professional life.
Sometimes they merge.
Part of like Taylor Swift is like listening to the album and then trying to figure out
who the songs are about.
Cause like her personal life is public or at least like her romantic life is.
And like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Like get your bag queen.
Most of us grew up.
Yeah.
We don't have cameras around us.
Exactly.
Then she's like publicly exiled for it.
I think that fan culture is a very interesting thing.
Fan culture in general, when it's women liking men, for example, One Direction, you see most
people that aren't teenage girls dismissing it immediately.
What I'm thinking of is another Rolling Stone article that made me pretty mad.
There was one that came out in like 2013 and it was like some, like again, like an older
like white dude.
And he described like the teenage girls that were One Direction fans as like banshees and
like crazy and like ready to like rip their own like ears off.
He painted this picture of like a teenage girl being a fan of something as like she's
insane.
She's crazy.
That just reminds me of when I've seen a footage from the Beatles.
There was a lot of comparisons thrown around to Beatlemania as well.
What's wrong with that?
Exactly.
Because I think that historically like the artists that now are like dad rock, like the
Beatles, like Frank Sinatra, huge like artists, when they were like in their prime, their
fans were primarily teenage girls.
But because it's teenage girls, it simply cannot be valid.
And it simply cannot be anything other than that that girl thinks he's hot.
Because women simply cannot just recognize talent.
Naturally not.
Because you're a 14 year old girl.
So you don't know what good songs sound like.
You just think he's attractive.
Also when people say to other kids or teenagers, it's just puppy love.
It's dismissing it.
These emotions are very real and very potent.
The theme of the show, the radio show that I'm going to do later today is artists that
I think get too much hate.
And like one of them is One Direction.
Because I myself was a One Direction hater for a while.
Because I needed to be not like other girls, which feeds into misogyny.
But like, I was 13 and didn't know any better and that was patriarchy.
When you're 13, you're carving out your space, figuring out where you, where do I belong?
What do I really like?
It's completely understandable.
I've kind of come to terms with the fact that like, that was mostly me acting under patriarchy.
I just wanted to like be a smart person.
And I had been told that women couldn't be that.
Who told you that?
That patriarchy, essentially.
Because young girls kind of learn under patriarchy.
And I'm sure you know that girls are ditzy and boy obsessed and only care about looks
and like all of that stuff.
And I just wanted to be like a three dimensional person.
My pronouns are she, they, them.
But I know that I read as a female, it depends on what I'm wearing.
And it is very interesting the treatment that you got.
When did it change for you?
Was that somebody that influenced you to look at things differently?
I think something just like switched for me.
I don't know.
Because when I was 13, I very much was like, no, like I'm not like other girls.
Like, I don't like One Direction.
Like have you ever heard of 21 Pilots?
Like it was very like, like looking back, I'm like, girl, you're not that deep.
No, but you're just like any other teenager.
I was young.
But I think once I hit like a certain age of kind of just growing to be a little bit
more mature and like, I can't even like pinpoint the moment that it happened.
But I just was like, you know what, like screw it.
Like Taylor Swift is good.
And like One Direction is good.
And like, I think that a lot of pop music is good.
Like hating pop music does not make you deep.
It just means you don't like fun things.
That and that you're also forgetting about the theory that a lot of songs use, which
is like a recipe.
One, four, five.
Exactly.
I'm like, that is a very satisfying resolution.
Exactly.
Like on a theoretical level, pop is short for popular.
It's popular because it's satisfying to the ear.
Like it's popular for a reason.
People like it.
There is no shame in liking things.
So you know how last semester we did that concert with the crew?
They brought like young gravy here.
Yeah, I remember hearing about that.
And I interviewed him.
Oh cool.
So I did do a bunch of research about him.
And while I was listening to some of his music, I was like, I don't hate this.
Like I think this is kind of funny.
I grew up on a lot of like old like hip hop and stuff like that from, because both my
mom and my dad really were into like hip hop and freestyle and stuff like that.
It was reminiscent of that.
I was like, no, because he doesn't take himself seriously.
I think that some of my favorite rap songs are like when people aren't afraid to like
be funny or like be clever.
Do you have a favorite rap song from your house?
Bust a Move.
This here's a chant for all the fellas Try to do what those ladies tell us
Get shot down cause you're over zealous Play hard to get females get jealous
Okay smarty go to a party Girls are scantily cladded showing body
Classic but like not afraid to like be funny and like be clever in the lyrics.
And I kind of heard some of that same quality in some of the Young Gravy songs.
I was like, you know what, like I'll, I'll rhyme for this.
Like I think this is fine.
The more you know about things, the busier writer and artists and musician you will be.
100%.
Even going back to politics and music, I think that a lot of artists steer clear of politics
because they don't want to alienate people who are listening.
Even like, I keep going back to Taylor Swift, but we see that with her political statements.
She's a great business person.
Yeah, she's a great business person, but like political spokesperson, not so much.
And I love Taylor Swift.
I think she is a spectacular songwriter and like I think she is a once in a generation
talent.
But for politics, I don't, I don't love cause she only really makes political statements
that everyone can get behind when it benefits her.
Like business move.
Yeah.
Fantastic business move.
She's, she's getting her capitalist bag, but sometimes that comes at the expense of like
not saying anything about like anti-trans legislation in the South until you're not
actively touring the South anymore.
Three months after everyone else was talking about it.
Like it's, it's a business move.
And we know why she does it because she's the biggest pop star in the entire world.
Her political statements are just like girl power.
No one, like no one's going to be like, no, not girl power.
If you're expecting like riveting political activism from Taylor Swift, then I think you
need to adjust your expectations.
She got into self advocacy, it's wrong with reputation, which I thought was really important.
Which I think is a very important conversation to have around women and music.
Yes, let's have that.
Yes, for real in that women need to reinvent themselves constantly in order to stay relevant
and stay interesting to male consumers who tend to get over women very quickly or even
not even male consumers because female consumers do it too.
Yeah.
We get over things very quickly, but specifically women, uh, women identifying people, you just
have to work harder.
Yeah.
And I mean, Taylor Swift does a whole song about that, which I think is a bop.
Like she has a whole song called The Man where she's talking about like, I'm so sick of running
as fast as I can.
Wonder if I'd get there quicker if I was a man.
You would.
I would be complex.
I would be cool.
They'd say I played the field before I found someone to commit to.
And that would be okay for me to do.
Because she wouldn't get slut shamed nearly as much as she does if she were a dude.
She wouldn't get slut shamed at all.
Probably.
No, you get high five.
Exactly.
You get a high five.
You'd be, you'd be a player.
Yeah.
But instead she's a bitch because what she dates the normal amount that someone in their
twenties is supposed to date.
Like, come on.
Haven't we outgrown that?
I don't care for misogyny or homophobia or racism or any of that because like, it's like
embarrassing.
Like it's 2024.
Get over it.
I think we've gotten this far because of music and art.
Yeah.
Like I don't even, I don't mean get over it to the victims.
I mean like to the perpetrators.
I'm like, are you still on that?
Like it's 2024.
Get over it.
Gay people can get married.
I like to remind people of something.
It wasn't long ago that you and I could not be in the same room because we're different
skin tones.
Society spoke about people of color the same way they speak about gay, trans or non-binary
people.
It's quite ridiculous because you're just my fellow human.
Yeah.
Like to hate someone that much.
How do you have the energy?
That, that's a lot of therapy that that's not for me to do.
Yeah.
If you can't like accept that like people exist, then I think that you're going to have
a very hard life.
But wait, who's going to come to the rescue?
Music, I think absolutely like the entertainment field in general.
Yes.
Like, like with disco platformed minorities in a way that very few other fields could
even within like all of our memories, like gay marriage was legalized in what 2015?
Like, which is insane.
The fact that I am 20 and gay marriage has not been legal for my whole life.
It would have, it would have taken a lot longer if gay people hadn't existed so openly and
so freely in pop culture.
A big shout out to our brave queer ancestors who fought for our rights.
Thank you for doing the challenging work.
Let's honor them by picking out the right shoes, stretching down the street to a bosomless
brunch and celebrate their fabulousness.
When you are a member of a marginalized group, sometimes simply existing is protest.
And I think that like music is such an accessible and easy way just to exist as a queer artist.
Even the 2000s, which is insane, was like, I remember.
Yeah, like people were like, you're so brave.
But it's like they just exist.
Like that's just a person.
And I think that a lot of people realized that because they had like examples.
But being bi was such a huge thing.
Oh my God, David Bowie.
The amount of times where people would be like, oh, so you're gay.
And he'd be like, no.
I mean, he did a lot for fashion.
Because in my opinion, clothes are just clothes.
They're not gendered.
They're not marketing.
I mean, yes, if you have breasts or penis, there's a little bit of extra cloth that might
go into it.
But what the fuck?
What do you want?
Yeah, like it's just a different shaped body.
Yeah.
What makes you feel beautiful?
But the fact is people still get harassed for that.
But I think David did a lot for that.
My mom's a really big Bowie fan.
And she.
I want to meet your mom.
She's so cool.
She's the best.
But Bowie is one of the artists that like very much stuck with me.
That my mom like played as a kid for me a lot.
And like, I just think he's incredible.
Like I. He did so much for like masculinity and like the idea of like what it means to
be a man.
And Prince did the same thing of like what it means to just be a man and dress like a
man and act like a man and date like a man and like.
All of the ideas of patriarchy.
One thing that is interesting because music definitely did do a lot for mental health.
And yes, I know.
I think this is really important because the whole masculinity thing.
We talk a lot about women and I love it.
But I'm also a big fan of talking about men's emotions because they're so stigmatized.
100%.
And I think music did a lot to help people get resources, including.
Absolutely.
Rap music did that.
There's an artist called Chris Kills.
Something raps about him being a thriver, a survivor and dealing with that.
Another musician told me first time I saw Michael Jordan cry was the first time I had
permission as a black man to cry.
This is somebody in their fifties.
Yeah.
And so mailed into fighting people talking about emotions does a lot for culture because
we're still in an era that, oh, be a man or you're too sensitive.
Or is that everybody's sensitive?
Yeah, absolutely.
Like, oh my God, like I cry all the time.
Yeah.
It feels good.
Yeah.
Like you need to sometimes.
Like I think I would probably be like a psychopath if I didn't cry all the time because I just
have so many emotions built up.
Like I don't, I don't think I'd be nearly as like healthy.
Well, crying is healthy, but that's one thing that we don't give permission to men to cry.
Yeah.
Songs.
Music does.
It's the beautiful thing is that music, they expect you to talk about your emotions.
Yes.
And that lets men talk about their feelings, which is so good because they like they're
expected not to.
Yeah.
Be strong and never cry.
Exactly.
And survive and, and provide for everything and everyone, but don't you cry.
Exactly.
And if you do be a man.
Like, what a horrible thing to say.
Literally.
What a, what a horrible thing that patriarchy has done to all of us.
Like it's, it doesn't just hurt women and non-binary people.
It hurts men too.
Yeah.
And I think that music is a beautiful subversion of that in that it encourages men to be like,
no, how are you feeling?
Like talk about, talk about it.
Like write a song about your feelings.
Because also if you don't, then people are going to be like, well, why, like, what are
you talking about?
Like people kind of expect you to talk about your feelings in music.
Yeah.
Like I can't think of even like a single artist that I know of that doesn't have any songs
about like an emotion.
Yeah.
I can't tell you that.
Yeah.
Like because people write about emotions, people write about what they know and like
male musicians write about their feelings and it encourages them to talk about their
feelings, which is a great thing.
Music has given people a way to make support groups for that.
Music is the key.
In my opinion, music can unite the world.
Yeah.
Because people love to pretend that men don't have problems.
When like we all have problems.
Yeah.
I think we all have problems.
They suffer from eating disorders.
It's the same thing that happens to women, happens to men.
Yeah.
And that like, just because it happens at like higher statistical rates among women
doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to men.
And that doesn't make it less valid when it does happen to men.
Like it's not like the fricking trauma Olympics.
Yeah.
It's like competing to see who's more oppressed.
No one benefits from patriarchy.
It's bad for everybody.
Like it's not like it's great for men and terrible for women.
It's not good for them either.
Laying out of society according to patriarchy hurts everyone, not just women.
And I think that that's an important thing to like talk about because also some people
aren't men or women.
And then patriarchy has no idea what to do with them.
And then you let them exist and everybody gets the same right.
Exactly.
And that like, it's, I don't know, it's a system that does not work.
It absolutely doesn't work for anyone involved.
And if you ever need help or someone to talk to, the Entertainment Community Fund, formerly
known as the Actors Fund, is there for you.
They provide free help to anyone in the entertainment industry.
And if you don't need help, perhaps you can volunteer and help somebody else.
No, no, they're not sponsoring the podcast.
You deserve to know the resources that are available to you.
But hey, from time to time, we all need to pretend to be the one person village.
But as we know, I get by with a little help from our friends.
I think we're doing a lot to make things better, but I just keep plugging everything back to
art because I don't know any other vehicle that allows us to cope with and change to
make signs, protest signs, to stand there and make people feel less alone.
Yeah, there's a reason people chant at protests.
It's a form of singing.
Can you point to a specific song or album by women that have had measurable impact on
legislation or cultural norms around women's rights?
That's a whole show right there.
Yeah, I was going to say women's contribution to like society has already.
You can talk about that for a very long time.
Yeah, it's even though according to the public school system, white men invented everything
except for peanut butter.
Who invented peanut butter?
George Washington Carver.
He was a black guy.
Women have never invented anything.
Thank you, public school.
Oh, no, not the dishwasher, not the windshield wipers in the car.
I was going to say everything was invented by white men except for peanut butter.
Thank you, public education system.
So.
Peanut butter and chocolate?
Now I'm getting hungry.
I was going to say I'm so hungry.
A very special thanks to you for hanging out with us and to Matheela Cook, her work is
linked to this episode.
The theme and transition music for the show is composed especially by Shozzett Silva.
This episode was produced, recorded and mixed by them as well.
And thank you to the University of Delaware's WVUD where parts of this episode were recorded.
Keep making art, keep making music.
It is more powerful than you know.
And remember, only your rhythm.