That was Mélissande, Opus 109 by Mel Bonice and
it was performed by Chenyon Lee. I'm Erica Worth
and welcome to this Pianist Podcast. Today I
am speaking with Chenyon Lee about her remarkable
role as Pianist Magazine's House Pianist. Chenyon,
it's lovely to have you on the Pianist Podcast
today. Hi Erica, it's not been long has it? No,
absolutely not. Except for this time that we
are talking in public. Absolutely. So many people
will know you as the pianist who records all
the pieces for Pianist Magazine. So I thought
it would be great to hear. Great for you to tell
everybody what it's like, this huge job of yours.
It's an absolute great pleasure. And of course,
I honour that to you. I'm just one of the team,
aren't I? And I thought this is a great chance
also because you're always there to interview
other pianists. But this is probably also the
rare chance, Erica, that you can join me and
we can both discuss. You know, what's it been
like? Absolutely. I think it might be interesting
for many people to hear. Yeah, I think it's most
probably because you and I liaise and chat so
much about the production of the music for the
magazine. So, yeah, if you talk about it, explain
what it's like. I mean, you've been recording
the pieces since 2011. I know. I can't believe
it. It's such a long time ago. I mean, I started
recording for pianists before I had kids. And
my older one's already 14. Oh, my goodness. It's
just a year before Milo was born. That was amazing.
Incredible. So how many pieces do you think you've
learned in that time? Do you know? I actually
did some study on this. And since we published
this from issue 58 until 148, I know we are a
few issues ahead. But for that. duration of issues
we've recorded 1 ,081 repertoire. And among those,
640 by major recognized composers and 441 by
smaller or lesser known composers. And the whole
estimated average length for each piece is around
three minutes. And so the roundup total playing
time, you're going to gasp on this one, is 3
,218 minutes or about nearly... 54 hours of recording
we've done that is incredible I can't believe
it everybody listen to that isn't that incredible
I know I know I mean like because we're always
dealing with each issue at the time you never
think about them when they are accumulated over
such a long period of time this is amazing and
I'm going to ask you something right now let's
say There was a piece you recorded five years
ago. Would you be able to pick it up in your
fingers again? Well, actually, I've tried something
I've done really quite well and even recorded
and memorised everything. And honestly, no, no,
I have to relearn. But it's true at some point.
as i was relearning it and then things come back
way quicker but um even the old fingering i find
i used to do are odd so it's each time it's it's
never the same so that feels like not a great
bargain but it it is easier for me but not that
easy as you would thought yes yes yes yes that's
incredible now i mean tell listeners about the
whole process i mean i are you and i liaise about
the repertoire and then you have to learn these
pieces very quickly don't you yeah well um i
think really the the the front part the the first
part of a process is really um very much You,
you've done that part of selecting repertoire,
consult the whole team or extended experts on
deciding what themes we might do. And so really,
I have that part, the difficult part done by
you, Erica. So mostly you feed me the piece.
pieces or and of course you have to consider
a lot about the pages or each we cater for different
level of difficulty don't we and how to evenly
distribute them as well yes so I have the easy
part I only have to learn the pieces and play
them to the best of my ability so when I first
received the music I normally sort of like play
through the entire collection to just get over
overall view of it. I think over the years I
might become like more increasingly conscious
of protecting my own initial response to a piece
because particularly when it's a more unfamiliar
piece before listening to anyone else I want
to discover my own instinctive reaction. What
character do I want to hear it? What does it
seem to be going? What do I think? it wants to
communicate. So once I have that initial formalized
some ideas, I then would broaden my understanding
by, you know, going into more deeper researches
and, you know, to learn about the background
and the composers and understand the context
in which the pieces were written, etc. But of
course, most frequently, the most direct way
is to listen to other interpretation by other
pianists and what you know um especially nowadays
we are so spoiled for so many platform of experience
music you know thinking about um in the childhood
you know i was still trying to get a reference
from cassettes yes so um but sometimes it was
a lesser known repertoire uh recording can be
quite scarce though because we do feature So
I have to rely much more heavily on my own sort
of a musical instinct and judgment. With a familiar
piece, however, it's another perspective because
you get a greater variety of a very different
interpretation. So I would still have to do a
fair amount of research because it's fascinating
to compare them and then to... you know to learn
and to maybe sometimes copy um what i really
like the most yes um so and now after that i
think also tempo is become a very very very significant
decision Because increasingly I'm aware how complete
the identity of a piece can change according
to the slight tempo change you choose. So it
affects not only the speed, but also the character,
the phrasing and the mood and atmosphere and
et cetera. Yeah, so after making those broader
decision, I work a lot more closely on the details
and then try to be. then try to be not overly
influenced by other performers, because ultimately,
I think the interpretation still has to feel
like my own. Yeah. And but, you know, there's
always a moment that I hear a great idea that
is so brilliant that I just impossible to hear
again. So I so I learned. I think all musicians
learn from one another in that way. Exactly.
And I mean, it's all subjective at the time,
isn't it? It's like people who play the Beethoven
sonatas then go back to them in 10 years' time
and record them again. I mean, it's totally different,
isn't it? It's so important as well. I mean,
how else would you learn or have a growth? as
artistically a development if you don't try to
reinvent. And because, you know, myself as a
player now, as from 10 years ago, probably is
very different. Yes. Yes. Very interesting. But
what I like is before you record them, you and
I. talk to each other and you play me through
we certainly little bits of each piece don't
you and yeah i might occasionally say oh wow
chenyan isn't that a little bit faster or it's
absolutely slow but You know, it's interesting,
isn't it? Because even you and me, we have our
different ideas. It's so important. I mean, like
at first I thought it was maybe just a more like
a routine meetup. You know, we need to absolutely
agree on all that. But gradually I realized how
important it is just to check anything that we,
you know, so you are like. Another pair of eyes
or another pair of ears that I already do not
hear myself anymore. So it's just reflecting
back. And also, you know, that changes is still
occurring even. into the recording session because
um our producer um would then question me oh
what do you think about this tempo even if it's
a tempo that you and i already agreed and i thought
yeah maybe and you know um maybe maybe that needs
to another rethink And because there's another
valid reason, which I haven't considered previously,
that has been presented. And we just we just
have to react and and trying to put the best
work out there, even as late as in the recording
session. That's remarkable. And of course. You
go into the recording session. How long? I mean,
in the magazine, in each issue we have about.
12, 13 pieces, don't we? From beginner to advanced,
how long roughly and how many takes does it take
to record one album of the magazine, one issue?
It really varies. It's hard to say, especially
lately when we changed our venue from the RCM
back to Bishop Storford College. That has some
great advantage because the natural acoustic
definitely, in my opinion, beats the recording
studio, which is more artificial. But with that
natural ambience and the reverb, you do suffer
from... tiniest noise from outside like sometimes
the birds chirping and the trees are rustling
too loud a wind or even the building itself makes
some funny noise all of this has to then unexpectedly
but but also expectantly you you will have to
stop and then do a retake so it's very much depend
on the day And yeah, but mostly I find that that
has taken a lot longer than we used to do. We
sort of did it in three to four hours length
before in the recording studio. But now in the
natural setting, we... I normally do six hours
plus, depending if it's like a really, also the
difference on pieces determines a lot how many
takes. If it's a slow, if it's, you know, sometimes
the stool also makes us crack. If I don't sit
properly or if the pedal, using the soft pedal,
all of the, any of this small details can just,
stop a recording in process and then do another
take and maybe another one that's amazing that's
amazing and I remember through the years I mean
you know the climate you've you've had to practice
in freezing cold when the heating hasn't been
working I remember like just having layers and
layers and also with a blanket over my knee so
funny then of course extreme heat yeah I don't
know. Which do you prefer, extremely hot or extremely
cold? I don't know. I think we are lucky in here
because it's not that extreme, although it seems
to be getting more. But, yeah, I think preferably
maybe not the wintertime. Yes. Particularly if
you have to sit there all day. Yes. Now, going
back to the repertoire you were talking about,
and I always like to find repertoire, a combination
of well -known pieces that people have been dying
to learn and then also the more obscure, more
unknown, amazing gems that I've discovered along
the way. Are there any composers that you've
suddenly grown to love through recording for
Pianist? Well, there's so many. And you've, you
are, I mean, I'm not just blowing your trumpet
here, but, you know, like you've always, always
managed to source very interesting and the great
diversity of music, which I thought I often get,
you know, amazed. And I never thought. um you
know i would be still like oh really excited
about but i'm constantly so i'm no longer surprised
um so i told you that the the quantity didn't
i before yes um um but uh mostly And our readers
would know we are doing the sort of a miniature
or short pieces in the magazine. So it's, you
know, we are not ready to tackle a 30 or 40 minutes
sonata. So if, you know, if you're not ready
to play something like a list of B minus, there
are also so many shorter pieces through which
one can. still discover his musical world. So
these pieces may be small scale, but they are
not necessarily small in the musical value. So
many hidden gems. So we obviously explore a great
deal of, you know, major composers' works like
Bach, Scarlatti, you name it, Mozart, Beethoven,
Schubert, Schumann, etc. It's probably the most
rewarding diversity has been discovered for the
lesser -known composers, particularly the female
composers. Yes, I was going to say that. Which
was quite unfamiliar to me. I mean, like, I've
become a very fond of Melbourneese. Exactly.
And the Chaminade. Yes, I was going to say that
too. And, of course, the 20th century Amy Beach.
I always find that. you know her works very interesting
even there are miniature workers there are always
a lot of twists and a lot of surprises that you
would just thought you know oh i'm already quite
experienced in playing a lot of music but yeah
you know i always will see some, you know, be
surprised when I encounter music. So these music
really are wonderful works and I've loved them
so much. I, you know, include them in my own
concerts and introduce to my students and so
on. So it really has widened and broadened my
musical horizons. Thank to you. Yeah. I mean,
for me too, when I come across a piece and of
course, you know, when I'm trying to find music,
then I find another piece. It's like a kind of,
path into another unknown area, but you're right
about Melbouni and Chaminade and oh my goodness,
those pieces are absolutely amazing, ravishing,
you know. Yeah, I think you're also, you have
a strong lineage towards French music, don't
you, Erica? I don't know, I always thought German,
I always thought German romantic. Really? Well,
maybe both, but you know, like, you know, we
also do quite a lot of French baroque composers.
like um chimera chimera is not but um you know
like oh we've done tons of girl and a curler
because going through the compilation i realized
how many but i you know like this is so invaluable
for the piano learners i think for them i think
so and it's always harder to find interesting
pieces for the beginner isn't it yes yes and
that's why we have we have done a lot of Beethoven
Bagatelle which are just amazing oh I know I
know no the repertoire is astounding but you
know um with regards to your own playing have
you discovered it has as recording these pieces
has this job let's say yeah Has it done something
for your own playing? Has it made you discover
things in your own playing that you might not
have discovered? Have you not been recording
these pieces for pianists? Yeah, it's a really
interesting question. Well, I think it really
gives me a kind of musical self -belief that
I probably lacked as a younger pianist. I think
I've always had a fairly strong sort of musical
instinct. But it takes time to discover one's
own voice and even longer to trust it. So if
you want a listener to be convinced by your interpretation,
you first have to believe in it yourself. But
at the same time, I'm naturally very self -critical
because it's... probably it's been built into
the DNA of being a musician. You know, you must
constantly question yourself and then be prepared
to change, to improve, even that means that you
to knock off or destroy the part of. you know,
what you used to do. So it's sort of like a very
deeply ingrained in the part of a working process.
So the danger is that constant self -questioning
can gradually undermine the confidence. So one
of the most valuable thing I think a pianist
has, you know, doing this. job for pianists has
taught me is how to find a better balance between
those two to remain self -critical but without
losing the trust in my own musical judgment so
through repeating repeatedly doing this process
you know learning recording listening and reassessing
I have really gradually formed a much clearer
I think, a music perspective. I know how confidently,
I'm more confident of what I like and how I want
to play and what I rather avoid. Perhaps the
voice is also part of me, but the experience
really helped me to strengthen it and recognize
and trust it. That's so interesting. Well, I
totally trust you. I mean, sometimes... Yes,
and your trust has been also so reassuring. And,
you know, every time you still take the trouble
to review after we've even published every issue,
you always write sort of like an insider review.
on every piece is how it sounds at the end that
just yeah it's it's really great to hear them
all the time and to keep me on the track I think
well I love to listen to your final edits and
And what is lovely is when I listen to them,
it's almost like a concert program. You know,
you start with the easy stuff and you go, then
you go to intermediate and then you end up with
advanced. But I also like to hear the differences
of repertoire. You know, and by the end of the
album, I get, you know, I'll get goosebumps and
I'll think, wow, Chenyin, you're amazing. No,
no, that's incredible. It's absolutely the communal
effort here, really. It's just through. these
recordings that they represented so that's why
it's so important as you do know each piece so
well and you're hearing them being edited they
but still at the very end you go back as if you'll
never listen before and then just appreciate
them as like an individual program absolutely
and of course we have to thank your producer
as well don't yes yes well it's my producer Yes,
our producer is Yago Nunez. He's my husband,
but also he's been on the team right from day
one, hasn't he? And he's been the absolute rock
of all the sort of aesthetics of the music and
the recording quality and everything. I mean,
I've never seen such a... sometimes frustratingly
like a detailed man. And he's just go fessing
over everything that I can't even, I think is
too much, but it's without that level of a great
taste and also listening ability and professionalism
in what he does. We won't have this. Sort of
this level of quality of recording come out issue
after issue. Yeah, I mean, he strives for perfection,
doesn't he? Yes, yes. And he's so talented. I
mean, one man crew. And he also, every issue,
well. You can see it on YouTube, but he always
videos at least. Yes, yes, we do sometimes. If
you give us a four hands and often he does, especially
with the Spanish repertoire feature that you
probably rather give it to him to record it.
He's very good with the Spanish because he's
Spanish. Of course, yeah. He's a Spanish native,
and he really did his final thesis on Albania.
So I think any Albanian piece just have to automatically
go to Iago, I'm afraid. Interesting. Well, we
are a team, aren't we? It makes the whole thing
such a joy. Yeah. Yeah. So, wow. So, I mean,
this obviously takes up quite a bit of your...
work life um but you have a lot else going on
as well don't you um if you'd like to talk talk
about some of your other well um well this is
yeah really uh for the number of years but uh
i probably see myself sort of divided into four
different So this part of working for pianists
is the recording pianist part. And the other,
the second part is my teaching, obviously. I've
always associated with the Junior Guildhall.
And then that was the first job as soon as I
graduated that I got. And I've been there for
nearly 20 years now. And really, it feels like
I've never left the school. And the third part
is really just my life as a performer outside
the magazine. And I also do some other recordings
when it's more like an individual project. And
that covers the solo recitals, concerto performances,
collaboration with orchestra or composers and
other. you know, as I said, recording projects.
And the last part is more personal. I'm a mom.
So I guess, so of two boys, one 14 and 11. So
possibly the most challenging part of the job.
Is it really? Yeah, it's just a different and
as they grow, but I haven't, I haven't had a
major teenage. teenager rebellions started yet.
So let's just keep our finger crossed. And are
they learning the piano as well? Yes, they can't
avoid. I mean, like both their parents are pianists,
so what can they do? But possibly not to the
degree that we like them. But yes, they're definitely
learning piano and other instruments, brass instruments.
And my older son is also at the junior guild
hall doing jazz piano. Oh, jazz piano. Interesting.
Yes, yes. So you've got a very noisy home environment.
Yeah, we are the noisy resource for the whole
street and everybody has been very kind. But
yeah, so the last street party we just had, they
said, oh, you're the pianist from that number
three. And that's us. Yes, so we have a strong
label, all of us. Oh, isn't that wonderful? So
interesting hearing about your life. Well, as
we get... Towards the end of our wonderful podcast
chat here, I thought I'd ask you some really
light -hearted questions. And if you could just
answer off the cuff as you just hear them, answer
that, that'd be really interesting. I try my
best. Okay, so here is the first one. If you
could play only one composer from now on, who
would it be? Oh, gosh. I wish you didn't ask
me. This is so difficult. I used to think it
would be Bach. Because, you know, the obvious
extraordinary variety and the vast intellectual,
emotional, spiritual works his music offers.
But more and more, especially lately, I think
I probably would choose Chopin. It may sound
slightly strange because I've never really identified
myself solely as a Chopin pianist or somebody
who plays, you know, only romantic repertoire.
Maybe it's just to reflect the particular stage
I'm at now, because I've recently experienced
such a real rekindling of my passion of his music.
And even though so many of Chopin's works are
extremely familiar to us, I just keep returning
them and rethinking, as you said, like relearning
the things I've done for many years. And I just
keep like feeling in awe, like what astonishing
music he wrote. And there's always more to discover.
So, yeah. So maybe at the moment it's Chopin,
but ask me again in a few years time it might
change. I'm sure it will. Okay. One pianist,
dead or alive, you would travel long and far
to hear? Oh, wow. It's another grilling. question
is I probably would be Alfred Courtauld oh yeah
he's just one of the pianists I always always
you know if if I'm like listening to some music
I would I would search oh has he done this and
I would like what he has done and yeah I would
like love to hearing him alive um and that would
be utterly thrilling um also when I'm trying
to imagine what to truly amazing, memorable performance.
Just when I'm like working, I would try to project
the picture onto him. How would he do it? And
the way how he phrases and that freedom, the
sound imagination and just extraordinary sense
of poetry. That's Alfred Courtauld. Yes. Wonderful.
One person you would love to play for, dead or
alive? a person dead or alive you'd love to play
for? Well, maybe I'll choose somebody more personal
here, my dad, who died when I was still quite
young. And I would love to have the opportunity
to play for him as the musician I am now. And
there was another older friend who was... An
elderly gentleman I met, well, he's a retired
professor of economy that I met when I was studying
in New Zealand. So I came to know him during
his retirement and he was sort of an avid music
lover and did a lot of sort of like lectures.
beethoven's and that sort of for the for the
music lovers and he became an enormous support
of mine And was instrumental in helping me to
come to the UK to study. And later also helping
me to establish the beginning of my career. But
he then, you know, after I moved to UK, he lived
at far end of world in New Zealand. Even he was
English. So we didn't have that many opportunities
to meet. And also like how I used to play for
him. I know that hearing me play give him enormous
pleasure and I would love to be able to, you
know, do that for him. But he's sadly also passed.
I, yeah, I knew him when I was a student and
he was already in his retirement. Yeah. So these
are the two people I think I would. Lovely answers.
Do you have any technical struggles? Yes, all
the time. I mean, like anything hard, I would
struggle. But generally, I think if I'm giving
infinite time, then it won't be an issue. It's
just if you keep working, working, eventually,
I think one can solve most of the technical difficulties.
Obviously, as I'm aging, I'm also learning what...
physically capable of doing but it seems to be
that everything still achievable that it's just
maybe it depends on the time that you and how
hard you're going for it but having said this
There are two bars of music that I've done before
from the Petrushka's third movement. This two
bars in the left hand where your lower four fingers
in the left hand have to do a double third trill
with the thumb doing the, at the same time doing
sort of the quavers on top. I can't do that.
I blame my shorter little finger. But that's
just something I don't have. So, you know, I
just watch Yu Jiawan doing that with red eye
envy. I mean, how does she do that? I just don't
think it's humanly possible. I've asked every
pianist I know what I could think of at the time.
Like, do you have tips? Do you have tips? so
far i haven't been given any really useful like
yes yes if you see her next time please i will
ask her yeah she would know which which two bars
are these oh how interesting so going on from
that funnily enough what would be your advice
to an amateur pianist on how to improve well
i think amateur pianists are all very intellectual
there's like not a great deal that um advice
i can um give the only thing is i it's through
my own observation I think amateur pianists probably
when they try to be disciplined or they try to
work hard they always give themselves a sort
of like a set hours or like a regular amount
of practice I would say try to vary that time
of practicing because sometimes it's great if
you're committed to the regular practice but
some passage or that's just so incredibly challenging,
difficult, that you just have to go with such
an intensive approach of working to it. I mean,
everybody talks about the different methods of
doing this. All very helpful. But I just want
to add on top also vary your practice time. And
don't be afraid to really go extreme because
what you got to do is what the pieces takes.
It's not what you can do. So if you really want
to do an absolute like a smashing job. out of
the piece that's that's the part that like a
lot of people never thought of i think interesting
okay finally one composer you're not quite ready
to tackle yeah um yeah i i think um i've been
asked this before for a very long time my answer
probably would be the late schubert um but Just
to put a long thing short, I'm growing older
and I experience more changes. I began feeling
much more ready for that music. You know, I also
felt reluctant to tackle hammer clavier or Goldberg
variation, which I certainly did not want to
do earlier in earlier part of my career. But
I can tell you I'm feeling ready. Yeah, it's
just finding that. time and the space really
more probably more than time the space to yeah
to go in for such a mammoth of work so yeah yeah
you've got to have that mental space mental space
absolutely and also the physical you know because
we are all spreaded to so many directions these
days it's just how it is isn't it oh chen in
i love how had a great conversation with you
oh fantastic erica this is just like on no more
chat but exactly no i think you know your words
have been really inspiring and um just like you're
playing oh well you flatter me but thank you
erica you are the soul of this You're very sweet.
But listen, thank you for joining us today. Absolute
pleasure. Thank you so much. We look forward
to the next album that we can hear on YouTube,
Spotify. Yeah, Chen Li, Pianist Magazine. Thank
you, Erica. Thank you so much. Thank you. That
was the third movement of Beethoven's Tempest,
Sonata Op. 31 No. 2, and it was performed by
Chen -Yin Lee. Pianist podcasts are free, and
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