WEBVTT 00:00:26.410 --> 00:00:29.269 That was Dame Myra Hess performing her own arrangement 00:00:29.269 --> 00:00:33.310 of Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring. I'm Erica Worth 00:00:33.310 --> 00:00:36.310 and welcome to this Pianist Podcast. Today I 00:00:36.310 --> 00:00:39.210 am speaking with the British music writer, novelist, 00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:42.789 playwright and opera librettist Jessica Duchin, 00:00:42.810 --> 00:00:46.210 who has recently released a new biography about 00:00:46.210 --> 00:00:49.850 Dame Myra Hess. Jessica, it's so great to have 00:00:49.850 --> 00:00:53.399 you on the Pianist Podcast today. Erica, thank 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.039 you very much for having me. You're very welcome. 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:58.619 So why don't we kick off by talking about your 00:00:58.619 --> 00:01:02.039 new biography of the British pianist Dame Myra 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:05.040 Hess. Why don't you explain how it all came about? 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:09.379 Well, Myra Hess has been one of my heroines for 00:01:09.379 --> 00:01:13.900 my entire life. I actually grew up not a million 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:16.760 miles from where she lived in North London. So 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:22.030 she and her circle of friends and her... and 00:01:22.030 --> 00:01:25.109 all these people were very much, they weren't 00:01:25.109 --> 00:01:27.670 there because they were all dead by then, but 00:01:27.670 --> 00:01:31.629 there were blue plaques on the houses. And my 00:01:31.629 --> 00:01:34.849 parents, having been great music lovers, I think 00:01:34.849 --> 00:01:37.810 must have heard her play quite a few times. And 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:42.129 they would show me the house round the corner 00:01:42.129 --> 00:01:44.890 from us where her teacher, Tobias Maté, had lived 00:01:44.890 --> 00:01:49.599 and things like that. So when I started studying 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:52.400 the piano seriously as a teenager and listening 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.099 to all those fantastic historical recordings, 00:01:55.219 --> 00:01:57.579 which were becoming much more recognised and 00:01:57.579 --> 00:02:00.980 available at that point, I absolutely fell in 00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:05.590 love with her playing. I was quite addicted to 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:08.449 her sound because she had this fantastic sense 00:02:08.449 --> 00:02:12.509 of humour and it just bounces through those wonderful 00:02:12.509 --> 00:02:16.689 recordings of hers in a way that you don't often 00:02:16.689 --> 00:02:20.229 find in the rather more earnest figures necessarily, 00:02:20.289 --> 00:02:24.449 although she could out -earnest the best of them 00:02:24.449 --> 00:02:29.610 when she wanted to. So I was fascinated by that. 00:02:29.729 --> 00:02:32.069 And of course, when I heard about the National 00:02:32.069 --> 00:02:35.270 Gallery concerts during World War Two, I thought, 00:02:35.330 --> 00:02:39.009 what an amazing woman, what a heroine. Those 00:02:39.009 --> 00:02:43.389 concerts meant so much to so many people. So 00:02:43.389 --> 00:02:47.969 writing her biography was something that I started 00:02:47.969 --> 00:02:51.409 wanting to do about probably about 15 years ago 00:02:51.409 --> 00:02:55.639 because I was researching a novel. called Ghost 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:59.400 Variations, which is based on the violinist Yelida 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.939 Rani and the way she discovered the existence 00:03:01.939 --> 00:03:05.340 of the Schumann Violin Concerto. It turned out 00:03:05.340 --> 00:03:08.340 that Yelida and Myra had been duo partners, worked 00:03:08.340 --> 00:03:13.000 closely together for 20 years. And they toured 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.259 America and they did all sorts together. And 00:03:15.259 --> 00:03:18.259 in the one existing biography of Dame Myra Hess, 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:22.650 there was no mention of this whatsoever. Goodness. 00:03:22.689 --> 00:03:24.789 And I started wondering what else was missing. 00:03:24.849 --> 00:03:28.629 So I felt she needed a new biography and I had 00:03:28.629 --> 00:03:32.409 the chance to do it. So I was very lucky. I mean, 00:03:32.430 --> 00:03:34.569 yes, I think this is the first new biography 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:39.289 in 50 years. It is. It's 50 years this year since 00:03:39.289 --> 00:03:42.270 the last one was published. My goodness. My goodness. 00:03:42.349 --> 00:03:45.430 And how did tell me about the research? Was it 00:03:45.430 --> 00:03:47.990 an easy ride or did you go deeper and deeper? 00:03:48.949 --> 00:03:52.819 Tell us about it. Researching a book like this, 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:58.080 it's a bit like having a sort of set of interlocking 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:02.219 universes. And you lift the lid on one universe 00:04:02.219 --> 00:04:05.500 and you suddenly find there's another one underneath. 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.879 If you imagine them as those sort of steamer 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.719 stacks that you can get to cook your vegetables, 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:16.860 it's just one opening up on another all the time. 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:19.519 So I thought it was going to be straightforward 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.160 because there was so much stuff. But because 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.310 there is so much stuff. It's actually incredibly 00:04:25.310 --> 00:04:27.930 difficult because you have to work out what to 00:04:27.930 --> 00:04:31.889 put in, what to leave out and what also might 00:04:31.889 --> 00:04:36.750 be missing from that. And then you follow one 00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:39.269 lead and you suddenly end up down a humongous 00:04:39.269 --> 00:04:44.730 rabbit hole. So most of the stuff is in the British 00:04:44.730 --> 00:04:48.430 Library. But of course, just after I started 00:04:48.430 --> 00:04:51.009 researching, it was a pandemic and the British 00:04:51.009 --> 00:04:56.759 Library was closed. Of course. So by absolute 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.620 serendipity, Nigel Hess, the composer who is 00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:06.100 Dame Myra's great nephew, had returned to him 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:09.100 from someone else who had borrowed them in the 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:13.959 distant, distant past, a couple of crates of 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:18.769 private archive. And he just brought them all 00:05:18.769 --> 00:05:22.509 round to my house. So I had this incredible collection 00:05:22.509 --> 00:05:25.250 sitting in my conservatory for two or three years 00:05:25.250 --> 00:05:30.029 with Myra's photo albums and her American diaries, 00:05:30.029 --> 00:05:32.230 which that other biography said didn't exist 00:05:32.230 --> 00:05:37.529 anymore. And I had her passport in my conservatory. 00:05:37.790 --> 00:05:40.790 Oh, that's amazing. So you had a whole library 00:05:40.790 --> 00:05:43.389 in your conservatory. Basically, I did. And it 00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:45.990 was sheer luck. It's amazing how these things 00:05:45.990 --> 00:05:49.029 sometimes just fall into place through serendipity. 00:05:49.930 --> 00:05:52.910 Amazing. Amazing. So how long from beginning, 00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:55.230 when you took it seriously, from taking it seriously 00:05:55.230 --> 00:05:57.529 to the final product, how long did that take? 00:05:57.949 --> 00:06:01.829 Well, I must have signed the contract just before 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:06.149 the pandemic began. OK. So it would have been 00:06:06.149 --> 00:06:12.660 2019, the very start of 2020. I'm not sure. It 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:15.779 must have been pre -pandemic because I did get 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:19.220 into the library before it shut. I just had notes 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:22.000 of must go back and look at this again and then 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:25.800 whoop. Wow, amazing. That's like at least five 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:28.800 years then because it was released last year 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.720 to coincide with the 135th anniversary of her 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:36.000 birth, yes? That's right. It was last November 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.720 actually was also the 60th anniversary of her 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.310 death. Okay. And how many pages? What's in store 00:06:42.310 --> 00:06:45.529 for somebody who's tempted? Oh, you're going 00:06:45.529 --> 00:06:49.230 to show it. Well, we can't. I can't show you 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:52.790 because we're recording, but it is about 420 00:06:52.790 --> 00:06:57.870 pages. Oh, that's doable. It weighs a ton as 00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:01.629 hardback, but it's going to come out in paperback. 00:07:01.629 --> 00:07:05.850 Yes. Yes. Was it, so you obviously, did you find 00:07:05.850 --> 00:07:11.550 you had way too many words? Oh, gosh, yes. When 00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:14.949 I submitted the manuscript, I found myself saying 00:07:14.949 --> 00:07:18.230 to my lovely, lovely publishers, Kahn and Averill, 00:07:18.370 --> 00:07:22.910 it's not actually twice as long as I suggested 00:07:22.910 --> 00:07:27.550 it was going to be, but it is probably 150 ,000 00:07:27.550 --> 00:07:33.250 words rather than 100. Oh, goodness. They thought 00:07:33.250 --> 00:07:35.790 about it all for a while and they said to me 00:07:35.790 --> 00:07:38.750 eventually, well, we want this to be the definitive 00:07:38.750 --> 00:07:42.410 biography of Dame Myra Hess. And if it's longer 00:07:42.410 --> 00:07:44.470 than planned, it's longer than planned. And we'll 00:07:44.470 --> 00:07:47.230 just put the cover price up. Oh, that's very 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:51.009 nice. It really was. Yes. Well, I was actually 00:07:51.009 --> 00:07:54.329 going to ask you, was it easy to find a publisher? 00:07:55.670 --> 00:07:59.860 Again, it was serendipity. Because I had tried 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:03.399 one or two of the big music book publishers. 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.420 And honestly, Erica, if I hear the words, it 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:10.540 doesn't really fit into our list once more. I 00:08:10.540 --> 00:08:13.660 think I'm actually going to get a machine gun. 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:19.279 It's the scourge of writers' lives, this thing 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.300 of publishers saying it doesn't fit into our 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:27.870 list. But then one day I was at a Royal Philharmonic 00:08:27.870 --> 00:08:30.910 Society event and I ran into someone who I had 00:08:30.910 --> 00:08:34.549 known my entire professional life since I was 00:08:34.549 --> 00:08:38.090 in my first job in music publishing. And we had 00:08:38.090 --> 00:08:42.809 a bit of a catch up and he said, oh, I'm I've 00:08:42.809 --> 00:08:46.070 officially retired. But my retirement job is 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.570 I'm now editorial director of Khan and Averill. 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:54.480 So this was a distinguished publisher of books 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.860 on music. They've got a fantastic piano list, 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:02.679 especially. And it's been it was given to it 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:06.240 was kind of bequeathed on deathbed to its current 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:10.379 proprietor who has reconstituted it all. And 00:09:10.379 --> 00:09:17.639 it's now publishing new books again. I thought, 00:09:17.659 --> 00:09:21.360 gosh, I have several of their books on my shelf, 00:09:21.379 --> 00:09:23.639 including some of those piano titles. And I thought 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:26.799 that would be the perfect place for Lyra. So 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.860 I sent him a pitch and an outline for what I 00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:33.799 wanted to do. And to my amazement, they went 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:36.960 for it. That's fantastic, Jessica. That's wonderful. 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.919 Well, I'm sure readers, listeners here will be 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.220 keen to, you know, go out and get it. And of 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:47.970 course. your other novels that they've all had 00:09:47.970 --> 00:09:51.009 a classical classical music theme to them haven't 00:09:51.009 --> 00:09:54.830 they yes well could you hang on while i let the 00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:57.690 cat out of this room because she's good jessica 00:09:57.690 --> 00:10:04.649 i know how important cats are to cat owners sorry 00:10:04.649 --> 00:10:10.950 my cat is my personal assistant personal assistant 00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:14.070 i do understand that anyway back to your other 00:10:14.070 --> 00:10:17.200 novels Yes. They all have a classical music theme. 00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:25.320 Yes, they do. There are seven of them at current 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:30.139 count, seven novels, as well as four non -fiction, 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:35.490 including Myra, on top of that. The novels, the 00:10:35.490 --> 00:10:39.549 first few were published by Hodder and Stoughton 00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:43.750 quite some time ago. I think the one to mention 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:48.049 is Alicia's Gift because it's about a child prodigy 00:10:48.049 --> 00:10:51.549 pianist. And I was able to put into that book 00:10:51.549 --> 00:10:54.629 many, many, many things that I had observed among 00:10:54.629 --> 00:10:59.009 the various child prodigy pianists I'd observed 00:10:59.009 --> 00:11:06.509 over the years. And I'm very, I was very, very 00:11:06.509 --> 00:11:11.090 thrilled when the Canny Mason family told me 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:15.769 that this is a book that inspired them. And in 00:11:15.769 --> 00:11:19.750 fact, Jennifer has a series on Instagram. She 00:11:19.750 --> 00:11:22.029 does a little series of videos about books she 00:11:22.029 --> 00:11:24.970 loves because she's very literary. And the first 00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:29.220 one of those. of those little videos was dedicated 00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:33.379 to elise's gift so she she had with her a copy 00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:37.200 of this little book it's the best thumbed book 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:42.299 i have ever seen in my life they've stuck it 00:11:42.299 --> 00:11:44.600 together with steve that plastic i think they've 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.519 all read it no doubt Yeah, apparently they've 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:51.000 all read it repeatedly. Fantastic. I remember 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.820 Isetta telling me in an interview that she had 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:58.080 read it over and over again as a schoolgirl and 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.240 it had kind of kept her company when she was 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.799 a pianist on her own growing up. I mean, not 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:06.559 really on her own because she had all her siblings, 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.919 but in a school, I think you can possibly feel. 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:13.570 a bit lonelier than that. Wonderful, wonderful. 00:12:14.029 --> 00:12:17.049 And there's a book, Immortal, all about Beethoven, 00:12:17.230 --> 00:12:20.789 yes? Yes, that is the most recent of the novels. 00:12:20.870 --> 00:12:25.450 It's about Beethoven's immortal beloved. Now, 00:12:25.570 --> 00:12:30.330 it seems that researchers are kind of 90 % sure 00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:34.990 who it was. But there's always that 10 % of doubt 00:12:34.990 --> 00:12:37.269 because we can't prove it because we weren't 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:40.970 under the bed at the time. And it's the only 00:12:40.970 --> 00:12:44.549 way to prove whether the story is true is to 00:12:44.549 --> 00:12:47.830 do a DNA test between Beethoven and the woman 00:12:47.830 --> 00:12:50.789 who may have been his illegitimate daughter. 00:12:50.850 --> 00:12:53.649 We don't know for sure. I don't think anyone's 00:12:53.649 --> 00:12:57.909 going to do that anytime soon. My goodness. But 00:12:57.909 --> 00:13:01.110 it was a fascinating, extraordinary story. And 00:13:01.110 --> 00:13:03.370 I got really quite obsessed with it, as people 00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:06.730 do. I mean, people go up completely gaga about 00:13:06.730 --> 00:13:09.330 this story. And you wouldn't believe some of 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:11.629 the pushback I've had from people who are convinced 00:13:11.629 --> 00:13:16.470 it was somebody else. But that's life. That's 00:13:16.470 --> 00:13:19.350 the way it is. And that's why I've done it as 00:13:19.350 --> 00:13:22.070 nonfiction, because I don't feel able to say 00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:25.350 definitively this is absolutely... certainly 00:13:25.350 --> 00:13:27.870 what happened yeah because we just we can't do 00:13:27.870 --> 00:13:32.330 that oh how interesting um but I'm hoping that 00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:35.470 there will be a way of republishing this book 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:37.590 soon because there's a Beethoven anniversary 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:42.409 coming up in 2027 yes it was done originally 00:13:42.409 --> 00:13:46.899 for the anniversary in 2020, but of course it 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:48.840 came out into the middle of a pandemic where 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.019 there were no Beethoven concerts and no, any 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:57.679 other concerts either. So. Of course. That was 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.120 a bit of a shame. Everything was, it just came 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.720 out into a cultural wasteland, which was never 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:08.120 the idea. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You're also 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.820 a librettist and you've collaborated with the 00:14:10.820 --> 00:14:14.639 composer, Roxanna Panufnik. Most recently with 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.700 the opera Dahlia, which sounds, it's got an intriguing 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:21.919 story. Yes, Dahlia was commissioned by Garsington 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:28.799 for its huge production with a youth company, 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:35.399 children's chorus, amateur chorus, adult chorus, 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:38.279 the Philharmonia Orchestra, five professional 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:43.009 soloists. And we had an amazing... child soloist. 00:14:43.289 --> 00:14:47.990 She's a teenager. I think she's studying music 00:14:47.990 --> 00:14:52.230 at Cambridge now and has gone on to do that since 00:14:52.230 --> 00:14:58.029 then. It is a story about a Syrian refugee girl 00:14:58.029 --> 00:15:01.889 who is fostered in a small British town that's 00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:05.470 obsessed with cricket. and discovers she has 00:15:05.470 --> 00:15:09.610 a talent for cricket. So she is both a girl in 00:15:09.610 --> 00:15:14.450 a boy's world and a Syrian in Britain, dealing 00:15:14.450 --> 00:15:17.210 with the sort of things that that throws at her. 00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:22.289 So there was a great deal of research to do about 00:15:22.289 --> 00:15:28.490 that, which Rox and I both undertook with great 00:15:28.490 --> 00:15:32.879 eagerness. research Syrian musical idioms. We 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.340 had an Arabic singer playing Dalia's mother, 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.360 who was absolutely amazing and did an incredible 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:47.759 improvisation section. And the baddie is, in 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.779 fact, the person who sang the baddie said, he's 00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.039 the nastiest character I've ever had to play. 00:15:54.700 --> 00:16:00.139 And he was a typical voter of certain. certain 00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:05.440 strands on the extreme right wing, I would say, 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:11.360 of the imperialist cricket section. Anyway, there 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:14.720 we go. Must be great to play a baddie. I've always 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.100 thought that. He did look like he was having 00:16:18.100 --> 00:16:21.080 some fun with it. Oh, my goodness. I mean, your 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:25.690 life in writing is so... diverse you write for 00:16:25.690 --> 00:16:28.629 and about music dividing your time between journalism 00:16:28.629 --> 00:16:31.509 biography fiction and stage works and of course 00:16:31.509 --> 00:16:35.509 you write for pianist magazine um and it's usually 00:16:35.509 --> 00:16:38.210 the cover interview which means you've interviewed 00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:41.649 dozens if not hundreds of pianists i mean tell 00:16:41.649 --> 00:16:44.610 us about that interviewing all these famous pianists 00:16:44.610 --> 00:16:48.730 um well it's one of my great joys because the 00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:51.860 the reason i went into music journalism is because 00:16:51.860 --> 00:16:56.820 I found I wanted to sit and talk to them. I wanted 00:16:56.820 --> 00:17:01.820 to ask, how do you do that? What makes you tick? 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.140 How are you able to create these extraordinary 00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:09.660 performances? So I've been lucky enough to meet 00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:13.880 and interview some of my teenage heroes. Wow. 00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:16.269 Yes, I'm sure. And I'm sure you've gone all over 00:17:16.269 --> 00:17:17.990 the world to interview them as well, haven't 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:20.470 you? I've gone to some very funny places to interview 00:17:20.470 --> 00:17:25.789 them. I remember going to Barcelona to interview 00:17:25.789 --> 00:17:29.230 Grigori Sokolov in the days when he still occasionally 00:17:29.230 --> 00:17:33.630 could be persuaded to do interviews. But he wanted 00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:36.289 to be interviewed in his dressing room after 00:17:36.289 --> 00:17:41.250 a concert in this amazing, wonderful Gaudi concert 00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:46.119 hall in Barcelona. Wow. I took a Russian -speaking 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:50.099 friend with me to translate because Mr Sokolov 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:53.869 had asked for a translator. And we started the 00:17:53.869 --> 00:17:56.150 recital, this being Spain, and he started about 00:17:56.150 --> 00:17:58.309 nine o 'clock in the evening. So by the time 00:17:58.309 --> 00:18:01.049 we were set up after however many encores it 00:18:01.049 --> 00:18:03.569 was that he played, it was probably pushing midnight. 00:18:04.630 --> 00:18:09.569 And by the time we got out into Barcelona in 00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:12.250 the wee hours, it was so late that even in Spain, 00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:17.769 all the restaurants were shut. I was okay, but 00:18:17.769 --> 00:18:20.990 my poor translator was ravenous and there was 00:18:20.990 --> 00:18:25.250 nothing for him to eat. Did Sokolov say some 00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:27.170 interesting things or was he terribly quiet? 00:18:27.769 --> 00:18:30.589 Oh, Sokolov was fantastic. He was still on a 00:18:30.589 --> 00:18:32.910 bit of a high after the concert, which is why 00:18:32.910 --> 00:18:37.450 he wanted to talk then. Amazing. And he was utterly 00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:39.650 wonderful. And then we ended up having breakfast 00:18:39.650 --> 00:18:42.950 with him the next morning because he was in our 00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.410 hotel as well. And he walked in. So my friend 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.289 went and got him. How lovely. How wonderful. 00:18:48.490 --> 00:18:50.829 What about the elusive Martha Argerich? Have 00:18:50.829 --> 00:18:54.180 you managed to interview her? This was very funny. 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.160 It was an article originally for BBC Music magazine. 00:18:58.579 --> 00:19:02.980 Yes. The editor phoned me up. This is probably 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:07.400 about 15 years ago. And he said, we'd like you 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.119 to go to Rome and follow Marta Argerich around 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.140 until she agrees to talk to you. And I just I 00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:15.880 laughed in his face. I said, Marta Argerich is 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.460 never going to agree to an interview. She just 00:19:18.460 --> 00:19:21.180 doesn't do them. And he said, well, would you 00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:26.140 go anyway and try? So I thought, well, OK. I 00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:28.079 don't mind going to Rome. I don't mind following 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.740 Marta Argerich around. But I was very, very anxious 00:19:31.740 --> 00:19:35.200 about this because, you know, to any pianist, 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.700 Marta is basically God. And I know that she is, 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:43.480 she's very sensitive. She's very nervous. She's 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.660 very bound up with, you know, whatever her next 00:19:46.660 --> 00:19:48.880 performance is going to be and whether she can 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.940 go ahead and do it, those kinds of things. So 00:19:52.940 --> 00:19:57.619 I was, again, I was very, very lucky because 00:19:57.619 --> 00:20:01.740 I was invited by her agent to come along to the 00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:06.000 rehearsal in Rome and to try and meet her just 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.799 after that. So it turned out I knew both the 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:15.319 conductor and the leader of the orchestra who 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.339 had both worked with the LPO a lot. My husband 00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:20.380 is in the LPO. get to meet a lot of people that 00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:24.660 way. And the conductor introduced me to Marta 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:28.700 as a friend of his. So she didn't actually run 00:20:28.700 --> 00:20:31.079 away. She thought she loved him and she thought, 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:35.380 well, I assume she thought that that meant that 00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:38.599 she could trust me and she didn't actually run 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:44.539 away. So I said some niceties and I thought it 00:20:44.539 --> 00:20:47.400 might be useful for her to know that actually 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.099 I'm not, I'm not, a sort of clueless journalist 00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:52.099 who can't tell one end of the piano from another. 00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:54.420 So I said, well, I studied piano. I wanted to 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:58.039 be a pianist myself once. And she, she said, 00:20:58.059 --> 00:21:00.200 are you used to play? Well, why did you stop? 00:21:00.259 --> 00:21:07.000 She said. So actually she is willing to. This 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.759 is great. And I told her why I stopped, which 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:12.819 was that I couldn't deal with the nerves. And 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:15.880 at this point I could just see something. clicked 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.420 in her and she said i get very nervous as well 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:21.900 and after that she was really sweet to me she 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:25.460 was so kind and so nice and eventually after 00:21:25.460 --> 00:21:27.960 the the rehearsals finished her agent sort of 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.799 pushed me into her dressing room and she said 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:31.900 okay five minutes and i managed to extend it 00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:36.359 to about nine five minutes oh that's wonderful 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:39.579 i love it oh my god it was it was more than i 00:21:39.579 --> 00:21:42.619 expected it really was gosh well i mean it just 00:21:42.619 --> 00:21:45.500 goes to show doesn't it that i mean As someone 00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:48.099 who interviews all these pianists, it does help 00:21:48.099 --> 00:21:51.279 that you know about how to play the piano. Well, 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.519 I don't see how you can really interview pianists 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.940 unless you can play, because it's such a specific 00:21:57.940 --> 00:22:04.180 kind of area of musicianship. There's no other 00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:09.559 artist, really, who is totally self -reliant 00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:14.150 like that. Yes, yes. And you studied, obviously, 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:18.210 yourself quite seriously. Yeah, I did music at 00:22:18.210 --> 00:22:20.589 Cambridge. And while I was there, I was having 00:22:20.589 --> 00:22:23.390 lessons in London with Joan Havel, who's one 00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:25.329 of the top teachers at Guildhall. Of course, 00:22:25.490 --> 00:22:28.970 yes. I was very lucky. Someone introduced me 00:22:28.970 --> 00:22:31.589 to her when I was in my first year at Cambridge. 00:22:31.809 --> 00:22:36.410 And I started going to her and she said, well, 00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:39.750 I think I need to change just about everything 00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:43.230 you're doing. She said. And she proceeded to 00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:46.789 turn my technique around, you know, quite extraordinarily. 00:22:47.109 --> 00:22:50.009 She's a wonderful, wonderful teacher. And I loved 00:22:50.009 --> 00:22:53.890 her to pieces. But was there at any point you 00:22:53.890 --> 00:22:56.309 wanted to be a professional pianist? Oh, yeah. 00:22:56.430 --> 00:22:59.509 I mean, I definitely did. I can't I can't imagine 00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:01.809 now what planet I was on. I think I must have 00:23:01.809 --> 00:23:04.289 had delusions of grandeur or something, but I 00:23:04.289 --> 00:23:08.250 was pretty obsessive about it and spent most 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:10.259 of my time at university just trying to. find 00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:14.400 somewhere to practice oh yeah i think it's when 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.500 we enter the real world and we see what's out 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:19.380 there and all that talent and everything that 00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:23.380 you take it takes as you said nerves it's a huge 00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:27.460 thing isn't it Well, it really is. And I mean, 00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:30.059 for one thing, I certainly didn't have the talent 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:33.160 to be a professional pianist, because by the 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.500 age of 23, if you are not circling the world 00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:38.960 playing Rachmaninoff 3, you are never going to 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:44.039 make it. Not necessarily Rachmaninoff 3, but 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.660 the equivalent of that. And you need so much 00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:51.319 more than talent. You need the temperament to 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:54.380 do it. You need that competitive streak. You 00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:59.180 need the guts to just jump in and do things and 00:23:59.180 --> 00:24:04.299 to take risks and push the boat out. And, you 00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:06.700 know, if you're a nervous wreck two weeks before 00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:10.910 a recital, you're probably not. I mean, there 00:24:10.910 --> 00:24:13.250 are pianists who are nervous wrecks two weeks 00:24:13.250 --> 00:24:15.650 before a recital, and they do it anyway, but 00:24:15.650 --> 00:24:18.250 they actually want to live like that. There's 00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:21.029 something they're getting from it. And I just 00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:24.990 thought to myself, I don't actually have to live 00:24:24.990 --> 00:24:27.769 like this. The stress level for that. Yeah, I 00:24:27.769 --> 00:24:33.130 just couldn't hack it. And I cried for six months 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:36.289 after making that decision. Oh, my God. But, 00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:41.089 you know... I sometimes go to concerts nowadays 00:24:41.089 --> 00:24:44.950 and I hear these incredible pianists who are 00:24:44.950 --> 00:24:49.809 out there. I think, thank God I gave up. Yeah, 00:24:49.890 --> 00:24:53.430 I do understand that completely. I know. I'm 00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:54.990 always in awe of them. I don't know how they 00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:58.910 do it. And there are some amazing talents out 00:24:58.910 --> 00:25:02.630 there. I'm just really, really struck by them. 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.579 I mean, you are completely involved in music. 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:07.779 You're married to a violinist, as you said, who 00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:09.960 plays with the London Philharmonic Orchestra. 00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:14.859 So you've got lots in common there. Well, it's 00:25:14.859 --> 00:25:16.839 funny because I don't think I would last even 00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:23.759 10 seconds in an orchestra. I'm full of admiration 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:29.079 for the tenacity and the determination that Tom... 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:34.160 puts into his work every day and it's a deeply 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:39.640 anti -social profession so you know I dream of 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.119 the day when he might even retire and we can 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.599 have a proper social life Oh, why? Because he's 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.759 touring a lot? Because he's playing a lot in 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.819 the evening? Yes. They rehearse a lot of evenings. 00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:54.480 They rehearse a lot of weekends. They perform 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.220 a lot of evenings and weekends, obviously. But 00:25:57.220 --> 00:26:01.259 rehearsals come into this as well. And there's 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:08.740 really no concession made to anything. You want 00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:11.920 family life. You want evenings. You want Sunday 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:16.000 lunch. Forget it. Oh, my goodness. So it's not, 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.599 and probably, I would say he's probably on average 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.279 away for about two months every year in total. 00:26:22.539 --> 00:26:27.940 Okay. With the touring. So it's not a friendly 00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:33.019 job, but then you go to their concerts and... 00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:35.980 And they raise the roof and they're amazing. 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.180 And I just think, you know, what a glorious thing 00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:42.059 it must be for him to be part of this amazing 00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:45.319 machine that is one of the world's great orchestras. 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.240 And I know he gets a real kick out of it. Yes. 00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.680 Do you play together? Do you play together? We 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.460 did some concerts together a long time ago, but 00:26:55.460 --> 00:27:00.779 probably around 2004, 2005. There were certain 00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:03.140 pieces that I'd always had to be in my bonnet 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:06.380 about wanting to play. When I was a student, 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.240 I had a lovely duo partner at university, but 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.539 of course, then went off and did other things. 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:15.279 And there were things that we had never played 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.940 or never dared to play. One of them was the César 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:22.869 Frank sonata. Very ambitious. Well, I just had 00:27:22.869 --> 00:27:25.349 this bee in my bonnet about it. I wanted to play 00:27:25.349 --> 00:27:27.450 that damn thing. I wanted to prove I could do 00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.509 it. So we learnt it and we played it and we played 00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:34.549 it really well. And then we did a whole recital 00:27:34.549 --> 00:27:38.769 programme where we centred it on the 4A, A major 00:27:38.769 --> 00:27:42.650 and the Elgar. This 4A and Elgar had a lot in 00:27:42.650 --> 00:27:46.920 common, actually, including mustaches. And in 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:50.599 the end, we did a recital of this programme together 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:54.460 in the Elgar Birthplace Museum on Elgar's birthday. 00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:57.640 And Elgar's great niece, Margaret, was in the 00:27:57.640 --> 00:27:59.839 audience. And she said we moved her to tears. 00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:02.940 So that was very nice. It's a wonderful memory. 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:05.619 And I'm glad we did that. How wonderful. That 00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:08.619 sounds wonderful. That was a lot of hard work, 00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:13.359 I'm sure. It was rather. Well, now, as we're 00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:15.660 approaching the end of our lovely interview, 00:28:15.740 --> 00:28:19.000 I thought I'd go kind of towards the more lighthearted 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.140 side of things with some questions that I'd like 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.519 to pose to you. And let me know. Let's see how 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:29.519 you respond. So here's the first one. As you 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.420 do still practice the piano, I believe, if you 00:28:32.420 --> 00:28:35.420 could play only one composer from now on, who 00:28:35.420 --> 00:28:41.099 would it be? That's pretty tough. I think, you 00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:45.420 know, assuming that I could improve my technique 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:50.140 from its current Slough of Despond, I think it 00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:53.579 would be Chopin. Really? I think that the way 00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:57.200 Chopin feels under the fingers is like nothing 00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:01.960 else on earth. And there's such a wealth of a 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:05.119 whole imaginative world in that music. I think 00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:08.349 I would be very happy to. That's a really interesting 00:29:08.349 --> 00:29:13.769 answer. How does it feel to you? It's very sensual. 00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:18.710 There are ways that he sort of twists you off. 00:29:18.789 --> 00:29:22.509 He needs you to kind of be flexible and to move 00:29:22.509 --> 00:29:25.390 your hands and angle things and direct things 00:29:25.390 --> 00:29:30.109 and balance the voices that demands enormous 00:29:30.109 --> 00:29:34.190 sensitivity and enormous, almost dancer -like 00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:41.289 flexibility. So when you get something right. 00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:48.109 It finally it feels right somehow. Yes. But you 00:29:48.109 --> 00:29:50.369 have to go through an enormous process to get 00:29:50.369 --> 00:29:53.230 to the point where it feels right. But it's just 00:29:53.230 --> 00:29:57.549 lovely. When I was a student as my I did a sort 00:29:57.549 --> 00:29:59.509 of one year postgrad that was half research, 00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:02.589 half performance. And I did my dissertation on 00:30:02.589 --> 00:30:05.630 the third ballad and I played it in my recital 00:30:05.630 --> 00:30:09.230 that I had to give. And that was deeply satisfying. 00:30:10.410 --> 00:30:13.710 Wonderful. Great answer there. I love it. One 00:30:13.710 --> 00:30:16.509 pianist, dead or alive, you'd travel long and 00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:22.930 far to hear. Oh, that's easy. Myra Hess. I'd 00:30:22.930 --> 00:30:26.529 so have loved to hear her play live. I was recently 00:30:26.529 --> 00:30:31.349 involved in... an evening at the musical museum 00:30:31.349 --> 00:30:34.990 in Brentford where they had a store of her piano 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:38.930 rolls that she made for duo art in the 1920s 00:30:38.930 --> 00:30:42.470 and they they had a push -up machine that they 00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:45.170 attached to a Steinway and they played Myra Hess 00:30:45.170 --> 00:30:48.390 playing Myra Hess and I was sitting next to this 00:30:48.390 --> 00:30:50.970 thing that was in effect Myra Hess playing the 00:30:50.970 --> 00:30:54.450 piano it was phenomenal I have never heard a 00:30:54.450 --> 00:30:59.970 Brahms opus 190 number four like that power of 00:30:59.970 --> 00:31:05.150 this thing yes it's glorious oh fantastic okay 00:31:05.150 --> 00:31:10.089 next question one pianist dead or alive you'd 00:31:10.089 --> 00:31:14.789 love to interview or interview again Well, there's 00:31:14.789 --> 00:31:17.970 a lot of them, but guess what I'm going to say? 00:31:18.029 --> 00:31:20.990 I'm going to say Myra Hess again because I think 00:31:20.990 --> 00:31:24.589 she must have been a dream to interview. Admittedly, 00:31:24.589 --> 00:31:27.750 she could wind interviewers around her little 00:31:27.750 --> 00:31:31.170 finger. If you listen to some of the things on 00:31:31.170 --> 00:31:34.970 YouTube, there's a recording from the 1950s from 00:31:34.970 --> 00:31:38.849 American radio and from the 1960s where she's 00:31:38.849 --> 00:31:41.769 interviewed by John Amos just in her last years. 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.660 And she has such charm and she's so funny and 00:31:46.660 --> 00:31:50.640 she's so expressive. There's a wonderful bit 00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:54.640 where she says to John Amos, you know, one day 00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:56.799 in these young pianist recitals, I'm going to 00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:58.880 stand up and I'm going to say vive la sport. 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:05.599 She said she'd rather watch horse racing than 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.940 some of the young pianists today. Vive la sport. 00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.859 That's funny. She had quite a sense of humour, 00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:16.359 didn't she? She had a wonderful sense of humour. 00:32:16.420 --> 00:32:20.339 Very, very earthy. Her sense of humour was so 00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:22.259 naughty that it was quite hard to find written 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:24.720 examples of it because people didn't print it. 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.500 Oh my goodness. Okay. Penultimate question here. 00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:33.640 One musician, dead or alive, who would be the 00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:37.480 subject of your next biography? That would be 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:42.119 telling. I haven't started on anything else yet, 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:45.220 but there are quite a few people I would love 00:32:45.220 --> 00:32:47.799 to write about. And there's also some unfinished 00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.460 business that I would like, things I want to 00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:55.160 do and want to finish before I die. Oh, my goodness. 00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:00.160 OK, let's stop there then. Last question. If 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:06.259 you weren't a writer, what would you be? Well, 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.519 I don't want to say I'd be a pianist because 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:12.480 I probably wouldn't. If I could do anything else, 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:16.039 I think I'd like to be a doctor. I think I lost 00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:20.400 a lot of my close family members to cancer and 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.279 I think I would like to be a cancer specialist 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:26.799 and try and cure people. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.900 OK, Jessica, I think we've got to the end of 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:35.059 our chat here. It was so interesting. Well, thank 00:33:35.059 --> 00:33:37.640 you so much, Erica. It's really lovely to talk 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.119 to you. I hope this has been entertaining for 00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:44.420 people. I'm sure it has. When do you think the 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:49.400 paperback of the Hess will be out? I think that 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:53.440 it will be quite soon. Okay. Okay, great. I'll 00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.670 keep you posted. All right. Well, thank you, 00:33:56.670 --> 00:33:58.650 Jessica, and I hope you have a wonderful day. 00:33:59.750 --> 00:34:02.269 Thanks, you too. Yeah, look forward to speaking 00:34:02.269 --> 00:34:04.730 to you again soon. Okay, take care and thank 00:34:04.730 --> 00:34:32.469 you. Bye. Bye -bye. That was the last movement 00:34:32.469 --> 00:34:34.710 from Schumann's Carnaval and it was performed 00:34:34.710 --> 00:34:38.630 by Myra Hess. Pianist podcasts are free and a 00:34:38.630 --> 00:34:41.449 really good way to support what we do is by subscribing 00:34:41.449 --> 00:34:45.289 to Pianist. Visit our website at pianistmagazine 00:34:45.289 --> 00:34:48.269 .com and listen to us on YouTube by searching 00:34:48.269 --> 00:34:51.409 Pianist Magazine. 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