That was the opening of Stuck on Stella by the
composer Salvatore Martirano and it was performed
by Mark Andre Hamlin. I'm Erica Worth and welcome
to this Pianist Podcast. Today I am speaking
with Mark about his life in music with a particular
emphasis on his new album for Hyperion Records
which features the track you've just heard. Mark,
it's lovely to have you on the Pianist Podcast
today. Thank you so much. It's great to be here.
Oh, it's so great to have you here. I've known
you for many, many years. But right now, I think
the focus of this discussion was going to be
about your new album. And with such an intriguing
title, if ever there was one, Found Objects,
Sound Objects. If you could maybe tell the listeners
how you came up with such a title. Well, it wasn't
the first idea, actually. idea and the one that
I it was a working title really was I'm almost
embarrassed to say it mixtape so Mark Hamlin's
mixtape but I was it didn't take too much time
for people to convince me that it was a phrase
sort of a moniker that was really maybe a little
bit overused and it didn't really completely
describe, you know, what I was after or what
the album contents was about. So I tried various
things. But I finally settled on this title simply
because, well, the sort of quasi -alliteration,
it was probably attractive, but also, well, I
hope a little catchy as well. But I mean, every
single piece, except for mine, of course, which
finishes the album. was kind of a happy discovery.
The things that I found along the way, which
I really, really latched onto for one reason
or another. And also the sound objects part really
refers to the fact that every single piece on
the album uses the piano in very, very, very
different ways and with very different purposes.
So it's... partly i guess a showcase of the pianistic
possibilities and and sound possibilities you
know that you can derive from piano oh absolutely
i mean there's such a mixed bag of sound objects
on here and of course um john cage's perilous
night which is the most extreme yes yeah yeah
yeah yeah tell us a little bit about that i mean
that's for prepared piano isn't it Yes, yes.
And for listeners who are not familiar with the
prepared piano as an instrument, I mean, it is
a regular concert grand, whose sound has been
altered by inserting various objects in the strings,
such as rubber, wood, metal, felt, and other
things as well. invention of the prepared piano
really is can be traced back to John Cage with
some help from the American composer Henry Cowell
and Cage had he had been commissioned to write
a music for a choreography involving a single
dancer and up to then he had been mostly writing
music for percussion ensemble But the theater
in which this dance was going to be performed
only had room really for a dancer and a piano.
So it was a very small space. So being the natural
inventor that he was, he thought of a way perhaps
to alter the piano sound to make it sound more
like a percussion ensemble. And that's exactly
what he did. So he ended up with... something
really sounding like a percussion ensemble in
the control of the single player. So the invention
of the prepared piano had a purely practical
aim, actually, practical origin. Yeah, I mean,
it is quite, I can't say it would be for everybody's
taste. I mean, ooh, convert me, tell me, tell
me. what you see in it, why we should all listen
to prepared piano. Well, in this particular case,
the genesis of the piece, I mean, the piece was
written really at a time of great personal distress
in Cage's life because his marriage was unraveling.
Yeah. and uh the music really reflects that it's
in six sections it's one piece but it's in six
sections so there's six different uh tracks on
the album um and it really trails off at the
end without any hope of resolution so it should
not be listened to as a nameless emotionless
percussion piece i mean there is really a lot
of um dramatic juice in it i guess if you want
to yes i mean what's interesting in your album
on the album is just before that you've had a
very different type of piece in john oswald's
tip which is light -hearted i mean that's that
is amazing as you say it's a medley of dozens
of well -known pieces yep Yeah, there are apparently
something like 40 excerpts, many of which are
repeated, actually. They occur, again, like Fiorilisa
and the Moonlight Sonata and whatnot. But, well,
John's way with music really is very interesting
because he has this natural slant of mind that
whenever he hears something, he thinks of a way
to transform it. So a lot of his production has
had to do with a transformation of existing material.
But the thing is, the way that he transforms
it, his imagination being what it is, always
ends up being truly multidimensional. And it
adds a lot of flavor. I hate to use the word
dimension again, but that's exactly what it is.
One of the things that he did, one of the tracks
for which he's famous, is that he took the first
portion of Also Sprach Zartustra of Richard Strauss,
which was used in 2001 Space Odyssey, and everybody
knows it. And went out and got all the recordings
that he could find on CD. And he ended up with
24. And he takes that famous excerpt and plays
them all together. He aligns the first trumpet
note. And then just lets... everybody go their
own way. Of course, they're a different tempi
and also slightly different intonation from one
recording to another. And it ends up sounding
like Ligeti. Oh my goodness. And it's the whole
piece? No, no, no. Just the introduction, the
famous part. Okay. Oh my God, I've got to listen
to that. That's amazing. I'm sure it's on YouTube
somewhere. It's easily found. How interesting.
Well, his tip is really interesting. And as you
say, it's that word medley of over 40 pieces.
Obviously, they flow in and out in a very coherent
manner. Well, they're not only collage, but also
very often superimposed. I mean, at one point
you get the very beginning of the Goldberg Variations
with the girl from Ipanema. In another instance,
also the opening of the Goldbergs with the opening
of the Rite of Spring. But the most hilarious
part to me is when he combines the first movement
of Beethoven's 111 with the Linus and Lucy music
from the Peanuts cartoons. Oh my goodness. You
know the part. It's so well done. I would chuckle
while playing it, were it not so difficult. I
mean, that's the one really, really tricky part
of the whole piece. In fact, when he first wrote
it, it was actually unplayable because there
were too many strands. So I had to simplify it
a little bit with his approval, of course. OK,
OK. Wow. Yes, it does sound very hard, as does
a lot of the repertoire on this album. And I'd
like to now talk about your own composition.
And I hope I'm I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly.
Hexen Sabbat. Hexen Sabbat, which just means
which is Sabbath in German. It's it has its origin
in the sketch. from many, many years ago, I think
around the mid 80s, I think, you know, and I
was still at university. And I was very active,
you know, in trying to find my own voice, you
know, such as it is. And this was one of the
sketches, I mean, I have a regular habit of going
back to older things and see if I can make something
out of them, because I i wrote down so many fragments
in the in my past that never amounted to anything
that uh sometimes i get my uh ideas from that
and i mean at the time i really didn't have the
the metal or the experience really to finish
projects and develop them adequately. So with
the passage of time now, you know, I'm much more
well equipped to make something out of these
things. So that's what happened here. And in
the back of my mind, I always had the very last
part of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique with
the Rome du Sabbat, the Sabbath dance. And I
also had the idea to use also what Berlioz used,
which is a good use of the Dies Irae. But in
my case, the Dies Irae is used towards the end
of the piece in the superimposition, and there's
three of them at the same time at different speeds.
And that's really the trickiest part of the whole
piece. And I spent a lot of time working on it.
I think it's an amazing piece. And the climax,
I mean, it just builds, you know, to a great
climax. Well, I loved the end, especially in
the recording session, because the piano allowed
me to build up sound in a way that I probably
never experienced before. What do you mean by
that? Well, just the accumulation of volume,
you know, and intensity. Yes. Without actually
becoming violent. I reached the top, you know,
and I found that I could still build it up for
a few bars. Amazing. And that's because of the,
that's the instrument itself, the style. Yeah.
No, it's amazing and it keeps going. It's a very
dramatic piece. I think it's fantastic. Really,
really. Maybe I should publish it. Maybe, you've
published quite a few. I mean, you've composed
throughout your career. I mean, a lot of concert
pianists don't. Did you feel that this was part
of you being a musician? You just knew you had
to compose as well as be a pianist? I've always
had the urge. I mean, this is insignificant,
really, but from the very beginning, when I started
piano lessons at age five, my dad, who was a
very good amateur pianist, had scores lying around,
Chopin, Liszt, especially those Liszt things.
I mean, I grew up with the Peters edition. edited
by Emile Fonsara. It was very impressive visually
for a little boy, you know, so he had some music
paper lying around and I wanted to do the same
thing, of course, you know, but scribbling a
whole lot of nonsense for many, many, many, many,
many years. But the impulse was always there.
And at the beginning, I admit that I was running
mostly for myself to play, you know, but in...
In recent years, I've become much, much more
interested in writing for others. For example,
Hexen Sabbat, this piece, I haven't played it
in public yet, but it was written to be premiered
by somebody else. There's a young Israeli country
named Yorav Lebanon. Do you know him? Yes, absolutely.
I've heard him. Yes, absolutely. A great virtuoso.
So this piece was, he premiered it as part of
a concert, which was actually broadcast by Medici.
So you could probably still see it. Okay. Yeah.
And he really was a hit with the audience with
the piece. He really gave it his all. Wow. So
you haven't performed it. Wait until now for
the recording. Recording, yes. But I haven't
played in public. And do you think you will?
Maybe. But as I said, I get more fulfillment
by seeing what others can do with what I've done.
That's so amazing. One of the things that I find
so fascinating about you and your musical life
is you like to collaborate with others. You play
with quartets. you know, it's a big part of your
musical life. And I believe now you're also,
you formed a duo with Charles Richard Amelin,
same surname. How did that come about? Well,
we met actually something like maybe 10 years
ago for the first time we were introduced and
we really hit it off. From a purely PR standpoint,
people are intrigued by the fact that we have
the same last name. He really would be an Hamelin,
except that he also hyphenated it with his mother's
last name. But his father's name is Hamelin.
I think that promoters were very attracted to
the idea, so we were sort of pitted together.
But we had actually... been following each other's
careers for quite some time and um so there's
a mutual admiration society sort of going on
there i guess i'm sorry it's sort of it sounds
self -aggrandizing i mean i don't mean it to
be but um so we tried it out and uh we we found
that we really click uh there's um a good uh
mix of or a good agreement between us of musical
vision you know okay So it really worked from
the start, I think. And we have a program that's,
I think, quite interesting, and it mixes the
unfamiliar with the familiar. It starts with
the Mozart Sonata. This is a two -piano program,
not a duet. So Mozart Sonata, Chopin Rondo, interval.
Then we each play a solo piece. In his case,
it's the Chopin A Minor Waltz, 34 No. 2, I think
it is. And I play a CPE Bach Rondo. Then we play
Mettner's two pieces for two pianos, Russian
Round Dance and Night Errant. And then we finish
with the Granger of Fantasy on Porgy and Bess.
That's amazing. I don't know the Mettner. I don't
know the Mettner. Yeah, well, the Russian Round
Dance, he actually recorded himself with Moisevich.
And Night Errant is actually a full -fledged...
Sonata Allegro, you know, so it's quite a substantial
piece. Both of them I think very, very attractive.
How wonderful. I look forward to hopefully going
to one of these concerts with Charles. We have
played in a variety of locales, even in Japan
actually, but these upcoming concerts are confined
to various venues in Canada. But we haven't said
our last words. Okay. Okay. I mean, one thing
I'm amazed is how you just rip through the repertoire.
I mean, you learn so much. I mean, I have to
ask, you must be a very quick learner. I have
been, though, with age, it's not quite as easy
as it once has been, which is perhaps a good
thing because I think I'm now maybe a little
less, I don't want to use the word superficial,
you know, because I always, I've always taken
everything I do very seriously. But it's just
a little slower. And I have to admit, I... have
gotten to be quite a bit more comfortable if
I have my iPad in front of me. I noticed, yeah.
And if you know to use the iPad well, of course
you have to know the music as well as you can,
but just the fact that the iPad is there for
reference is comforting. Yes. It takes a lot
of the worry away. Well, I think, yeah, I mean,
I've seen a lot of top pianists walk onto the
stage with their iPad. Absolutely. Yeah. And
the beauty of it, perhaps its most wonderful
aspect is that it's very discreet and you don't
need an additional person on stage to sort of
ruin the theatrical aspect of your performance.
It's just you. It's one on one with you and the
audience, between you and the audience. That's
true. I've never tried it, and I just still can't
imagine how you get the foot ready to turn the
page when that foot is meant to be pedaling as
well. Especially when you're using the soft pedal,
yes. But, you know, it's about illusion, I guess.
Yes. No, you're right. I've seen a video of you
performing Hex and Sabbat with the iPad. And
I have to say, I think another thing I so admire
about you is the way your posture. You're so
sovereign and on top of it, there's no, you know,
tossing, moving around, the head flying. Are
you very conscious of that or is that just the
way you've been trained? You just seem very composed
at the piano. I think I was probably partly influenced
by my dad who abhorred. all kinds of physical
display at the keyboard. I mean, my personal
feeling is that I must be a little boring to
watch, you know, because I don't... Sometimes
even I think that I don't look involved. But
to me, when all's said and done, that's secondary.
Because I really believe very strongly that you
should go to concerts just to experience the
music. acoustically in the room you know as it's
being created and uh of course it's easy as an
audience member to be influenced by the visual
aspect i mean if the pianist is looking towards
the skies i don't know it's it it can sort of
uh sort of pull us away from the fact that i
mean it's it's easy to to look at the skies and
not really be expressing much musically It's
very interesting. I think we get into bad habits
as well, don't we? I think it can be a hindrance
to move around too much. I mean, I don't mean
to speak against my colleagues, but all I can
tell you is what works for me, really. I mean,
it's the only way I can really concentrate. And
I'm not interested in creating a visual persona.
It wouldn't be me. No. So did your father, I
mean, he was obviously a big influence on you.
I believe when you were very young, he introduced
you to repertoire, Alcan, Godowski. Yes, but
I think he was discovering it at the same time
as I was. How lovely. He didn't really know it
beforehand. I mean, he was certainly intrigued,
but he also had his reservations about this repertoire.
I mean, I'm not sure he liked Alcan all that
much. Yeah. On the other hand, he absolutely
revered Godofsky. I mean, I actually have a document
to prove the fact that I was introduced to the
Godofsky Chopin studies as a score, not playing
them or anything, when I was seven years old.
Because that's when he received the scores by
mail. They had just been reprinted and he had
been wanting to see them for years because he'd
read about them and was really, really intrigued.
And finally, they were all there and reprinted
for everyone to see. So I remember we were looking
at them together. I mean, I was already through
him. familiar with the Chopin originals and also
visually. So we just looked at these scores totally
bug -eyed. My goodness. So did your father learn
them as well? He tried, but I think he tried
to play a couple. He practiced a couple of them,
certainly. I think they were really out of reach
for him, even though he actually worked on some
pretty difficult things. I mean, I have tapes
of him playing at home with large excerpts from
things like the Frank symphonic variations, for
example, or some list, you know, so he was up
there. He had perfect pitch. So I think he had
a good learning facility as well. And I, over
the last year or so, I started to make a list
of what I remember him. practicing or what I
am aware that he knew and the list is pretty
impressive really. But his taste really didn't
go into the 20th century very much with exceptions
like the Prokofiev seventh sonata which he really
enjoyed. It's a great piece but it's very accessible.
But I really had a lot of trouble convincing
him of the worth of something like the Charles
Ives Concert Sonata, which he sort of, towards
the end, reluctantly sort of started to accept.
Yes, okay. Oh, it's so nice that he was obviously
a big part of your life. Well, I don't know whether
I would actually be doing this if it hadn't been
for him. I probably would have discovered some
kind of musical talent. The nice thing is that
through him and through the records that he was
always playing at home and through my mother's,
even though she had no musical ability, I mean,
she often just sang for herself and she was a
great lover of operetta and things like that.
She had a real musical, good musical taste. It
was a really, really good, very enviable. uh
environment to grow up in and if i hadn't had
that i would have discovered uh at my aptitudes
probably much later if at all i get i understand
that entirely i mean obviously that's amazing
you obviously started learning those godowski
chopin etudes when you were about eight no no
no no oh god no no no no no no uh it it wasn't
until god my late teens, maybe, when I even started
to think about maybe, you know, working on them,
you know, because they scared me just as they
scared anybody else, really. But now, I mean,
there's at least four or five recordings of the
complete set, you know, so we know that they
can be done. They're amazing. I mean, Mark, how
many recordings for Hyperion now? Is it over
90? Well, I think it's 92 total if I kept accurate
track, although I think a couple of dozen of
them are for other labels. But the rest are Hyperion.
That's amazing. Such diverse repertoire from
Beethoven's Hammerklavier to Bolcom's Rags. I
mean, you always have ideas. You're like, I've
got to do this. I've got to do that. Well, I
think my discography speaks for that, really.
It speaks to that. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got
a great record label behind you who say, OK.
I could not have hoped for better, really, because
for so many years and still now, I mean, they
give me free reign in exploring what I want to
do. And the public's developed a trust in what
I do and that I couldn't hope for more. So as
long as it sells, you know. Oh, that's fantastic.
That's fantastic. I mean, I've heard you say
so much, so wonderful, interesting things here.
And so what I'd like to do now is maybe shift
to some little lighthearted questions for you
that I'd love you to answer off the cuff as they
come. Yeah. All right, so the first question.
If you could play only one composer from now
on, who would it be? Oh, God. Please consider
the infinite breadth of piano literature. How
can you whittle it down to just one person? I
mean, I could tell you about many composers that
I love. I mean, Schubert, for example, was a
relatively late discovery for me. And I don't
know why I waited for so long or why I just didn't
do, you know, I didn't explore him before I did.
But of course, he's an indispensable. But so
is Chopin, so is Beethoven, so is Mozart. No,
I know. I've been named so many people. Yeah.
it is a crazy question although some people do
answer and say and it's usually bah well he ain't
too bad either that's very funny okay next question
oh where are we where are we yeah one pianist
dead or alive you travel long and far to hear
based on the descriptions of his playing which
almost sound too good to be true, I would say
Liszt. Yeah. You know, forget the flamboyant
aspect of his writing and of his pianism. Apparently
he could play. I mean, he had a great reputation
for being the utmost. And the emotional impact
that he had on his listeners, I would really
have loved to experience it myself. And it's
really a crying shame that he did not live a
few more years to be able to enter the recording
era. Absolutely. Oh dear. Okay. Okay. One person,
dead or alive, you would like to play for? Doesn't
have to be a musician. List! Probably for the
same reason. Okay. A question here. I'm sure
you'll, I don't know, funny question. Do you
have any technical struggles at the piano? Always.
Always. I'm trying to phrase this right. Sometimes,
very often actually, getting something to sound
like what you think the composer intended entails
a great deal of, in my case, refingering. getting
the right kind of the emotional tone. I know
what you're asking me. And of course, I always
have to work on more mechanical things like anybody
else at the piano. I don't like to use the word
technique because technique really encompasses
more than just the mechanical. And actually,
I once read an article by Horowitz, actually,
in which he said that the word technique should
not be used. Really, it should be mechanics because
the technique really encompasses all elements.
of the musician's art and whether it be purely
mechanical or artistic. Very interesting indeed.
Very interesting. What would be your advice to
an amateur pianist about how to improve? Well...
It depends on how far they really want to go,
you know, but I've always thought, and this might
sound like an oblique answer, but I think it
really, really is important. Acquire as good
a knowledge of theory as you can. Theory, harmony,
counterpoint, analysis, ear training, because
they're all building blocks. And I can tell that,
I can say that in my case, They definitely had
a humongous influence on my playing. And the
benefits can be subconscious. You might not be
conscious of the effect of these things, but
I think it's very important to have a good mind
for music and not just let your fingers fly about.
Yeah. Definitely. I mean, structure, that surely
helps the structure of a sonata or a piece. Because
it really helps you know what you're doing, bottom
line. Absolutely. I like that. Finally, one composer
you're not quite ready to tackle. Well, I've
done pretty much... everything that i wish i
mean if i if i want something badly enough i
just get to the grindstone you know but uh whether
i've succeeded really musically is another matter
but that's for others to judge um there are there
are certain works perhaps that uh i'm i'm intimidated
by one of them actually and i i'm uh i'm really
being very candid here is the Chopin Preludes.
Okay. For some reason that I can't quite define,
they scare me. Yeah. I really don't know whether
I would be worthy of them. Yeah. Wow. You're
going to have to. Yeah. Interestingly, I'm writing
my own set of 24 Preludes at the moment. I mean,
it's a long range project. I mean, it's a commission
for 2027. And I am trying to distance myself
from Chopin as much as possible or any other
composer, really. So we'll see what happens with
that. But the Chopin, I'm not sure I would be
ready to tackle them at this point. Other Chopins,
yes, much more readily. I mean, I've had a very
interesting relationship with the Polonaise Fantaisie,
for example, in recent years, which I... And
with the Barcarolle and the Fourth Ballade, I
mean, to me, that's the top Chopin. Yes. He really
realised his art, you know, to the highest degree.
I mean, that Polonaise... That's a personal thing.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that Polonaise fantasy, if
you could get that across convincingly, it's
a very complex piece, isn't it? Yeah, and that
is a case where a knowledge of the science of
music and not just, you know, blindly following
the score is imperative because the structure,
the sequence of events is very elusive. And holding
it together, I think, is a very severe test of
the musician's art. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's
a wonderful piece. Oh, Mark, well, I think we've...
Come to the end. And with the shot, Polonaise
fantasy, it's a beautiful way to end it. As it
dies away magically. So our conversation will
too. Oh, but it's been wonderful having you on
this podcast. What are you up to at the moment?
I believe you're in a hotel room, obviously waiting
to give a concert somewhere. Yes, I'm in Vancouver,
Washington. Not Vancouver, Canada, but Vancouver,
Washington. Just across the river, actually.
I can see Portland, Oregon, actually, on the
other side. The hotel is next to a bridge. And
we're going to do two Rhapsody in Blues this
weekend. And then I go home for just five days,
unfortunately. And then it's back on the road
in Europe. And my first stop is actually recording
for Hyperion. And this is going to be a very
interesting project, a little bit off the beaten
track. Surprise, surprise. And it's going to
feature, the CD is going to feature a composer,
a Brazilian composer who's actually a very major
figure over there, but who is practically unknown
anywhere else, except maybe to guitarists. And
his name is Radames Gnatali. spelled G -N -A
-T -T -A -L -I. He has worked both in the sort
of classical and popular domains. He's written
a lot of concert music, solo concerti and chamber
music, but also has done a lot of popular music,
written also and arranged. And he was a very
well -known session pianist. And you can find
his music is very well represented on YouTube,
both live and recordings. But the piano music,
aside from a few exceptions, has not really been
available or even published. trying to revive
interest in his production. And the nice thing
is that the music is all available through the
Nathalie website. And it's going to be very attractive
because the CD is going to be slanted much more
towards his popular production rather than the
concert production. So I'm not saying it's going
to be another Kapustin necessarily, but I...
I think the door should be open towards some
of his production because it's really attractive.
Oh, that sounds fascinating. It's going to be,
I think, a very nice listen. I look forward to
discovering something new then, yeah. There's
actually a few pieces that ended up on one of
the Danacourt CDs from the Husum Festival. I
played these pieces way back when, but I... I
really didn't know what I was doing back then
because I didn't really get any sense of the
true Brazilian musical idiom, you know, and everything
was too fast and it sounded more like Art Tatum
than anything, you know, so I would scrap that
if I could, you know, but it's on CD so I can't
change it. Okay, okay. Since then I've heard
a lot more Brazilian music and I'm much more
aware of how it should be. Oh, that's wonderful.
Well, Mark, I think we've come to the end of
the conversation. All right. It's been a pleasure.
Yeah. And I'll let you get some rest now before
your performances of Rhapsody in Blue. Thank
you. That's going to be, it's always very relaxing,
this piece, I find. Yeah. I'm sure. Oh, well,
I wish you all the best for your performances.
And thank you so much for joining us today. Thank
you, Erica. It's been wonderful. Thank you. That
was the finale of Beethoven's Opus 2 No. 3 Sonata,
and it was performed by Marc -André Hamelin.
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