WEBVTT 00:00:19.630 --> 00:00:23.309 That was Grieg's Norwegian Dance, Op. 35 No. 00:00:23.449 --> 00:00:27.390 2, and it was performed by Ivana Gavrik. I'm 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:29.510 Erica Worth and welcome to this Pianist Podcast. 00:00:30.050 --> 00:00:33.329 Today I am speaking to Ivana about her life in 00:00:33.329 --> 00:00:36.469 music with a particular emphasis on her upcoming 00:00:36.469 --> 00:00:41.170 album, Throwback to Dance. Ivana, it's lovely 00:00:41.170 --> 00:00:44.600 to have you on the Pianist Podcast today. Hello. 00:00:44.619 --> 00:00:46.439 Thank you so much for having me. It's great to 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.399 meet you. Oh, you're welcome. Anyway, to start 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.820 out with, we're here to talk about your new album, 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:53.799 which is called Throwback to Dance. That's quite 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:56.700 an intriguing title. And maybe you could tell 00:00:56.700 --> 00:00:59.969 us about this. Yes, well, I've been championing 00:00:59.969 --> 00:01:02.490 the works of Grieg for nearly two decades now. 00:01:02.829 --> 00:01:06.290 And about five, six years ago, I came across 00:01:06.290 --> 00:01:09.430 a description of Ravel and Grieg meeting in Paris 00:01:09.430 --> 00:01:14.030 in 1894, where Ravel played one of Grieg's Norwegian 00:01:14.030 --> 00:01:17.870 dances to him. And Grieg was sort of stumping 00:01:17.870 --> 00:01:20.269 around saying, no, no, no, young man, it doesn't 00:01:20.269 --> 00:01:21.969 go like that. It's a peasant dance. It needs 00:01:21.969 --> 00:01:25.709 to be much more rustic. And this... endearing 00:01:25.709 --> 00:01:28.629 image just really stuck in my head and I thought 00:01:28.629 --> 00:01:30.489 I had to do something with the two composers 00:01:30.489 --> 00:01:33.510 because Ravel was very enamoured by Grieg's music. 00:01:33.569 --> 00:01:36.290 He thought that after Debussy he was the most 00:01:36.290 --> 00:01:41.069 influential composer on both Ravel and Ravel's 00:01:41.069 --> 00:01:44.349 peers so I thought not many people know about 00:01:44.349 --> 00:01:46.590 this connection and I should look into it further. 00:01:47.230 --> 00:01:50.129 You're absolutely right I would never. No. I 00:01:50.129 --> 00:01:52.010 would never put Grieg and Ravel together. Obviously, 00:01:52.090 --> 00:01:55.489 their music is very different. So the album is 00:01:55.489 --> 00:01:59.810 about Grieg's influence on Ravel? Well, it's 00:01:59.810 --> 00:02:04.250 really, it's about how composers take dance forms 00:02:04.250 --> 00:02:06.969 from the past, so Baroque dances mainly, and 00:02:06.969 --> 00:02:10.849 use them to, in this instance, to create a new 00:02:10.849 --> 00:02:14.229 direction, new paths, basically trying to avoid 00:02:14.229 --> 00:02:17.310 Germanic romanticism and the Germanic canon. 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:20.479 So Ravel was very keen to do that and create 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:23.639 a French sound or his own sound. And Grieg was 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.400 a composer that paved a way for this. They really 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.219 loved the way that Grieg encapsulated Norwegian 00:02:30.219 --> 00:02:36.919 nature in his music and also how he used dance 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.800 forms. And he was just different from the rest 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.159 of composers in that era. And so he sort of paved 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:46.199 the way and Ravel, of course, took it. Much further 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:50.159 than that. But he was an interesting composer 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:54.520 to him. And actually, Ravel even wrote a theme 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.319 and variations on a theme by Grieg. But alas, 00:02:57.319 --> 00:02:59.539 it's only in sketch form. I was so disappointed 00:02:59.539 --> 00:03:01.740 because I was really hoping to get my hands onto 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:05.580 this piece. But yes, he was so important that 00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:08.000 he even, I mean, in his youth, obviously, but 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.960 he even thought to write something based on Grieg. 00:03:11.060 --> 00:03:13.939 So there's definitely a link there. That's interesting. 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:16.120 And of course, you start out. the album with 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:19.080 grieg's holberg suite which of course looks back 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.860 to dance doesn't it's very neoclassical very 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:23.840 neoclassical i mean i think we always think of 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.439 strominski as being the this the the person who 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:29.780 invented as it were neoclassicism but actually 00:03:29.780 --> 00:03:33.800 it's it comes here much earlier um in 1884 and 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.840 i think there is a similarity between um the 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.300 holberg suite and le tombo de cupa in concept 00:03:40.300 --> 00:03:42.280 because the Holberg Suite was all about celebrating 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.740 Nordic culture. Obviously Holberg, but everything 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:50.879 Nordic and Le Temple de Couperin started off 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:55.740 its life as a Suite Française. which he then 00:03:55.740 --> 00:03:58.060 changed the title after the First World War and 00:03:58.060 --> 00:04:00.639 everything that happened and his whole life changed, 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:04.000 obviously. But initially, the idea was to celebrate 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.180 French music, starting from Coupin and ending 00:04:07.180 --> 00:04:10.539 with Saint -Saëns in the Toccata. So the sort 00:04:10.539 --> 00:04:13.340 of nationalistic aspect is shared, even though 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:17.439 obviously different countries. Gosh, that's amazing, 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:21.120 isn't it? Yeah, it's really fun. I'm always fascinated 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.209 by that. have people that you really don't put 00:04:24.209 --> 00:04:26.230 together actually have something in common and 00:04:26.230 --> 00:04:29.250 and also they were both very very petite men 00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:32.810 and so this uh image of the two of them dancing 00:04:32.810 --> 00:04:36.050 around in an apartment in Montmartre is just 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:40.189 lovely absolutely true I've been to Bergen I've 00:04:40.189 --> 00:04:42.290 seen that statue of Greek have you been there 00:04:42.290 --> 00:04:44.790 yes yes yes I've played I even played on his 00:04:44.790 --> 00:04:47.689 Steinway in his in his house I was allowed to 00:04:47.689 --> 00:04:51.699 practice there quite late at night and You know, 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:53.399 I'm not really, I don't believe in ghosts, but 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:59.899 there was a feeling. And what a remarkable position 00:04:59.899 --> 00:05:03.600 that house is. I know, it's just glorious. And 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:05.600 then Grieg's music just makes sense when you 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.800 visit Norway. And one feels so small in nature 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:14.829 there. Yeah, the fjords and the... His expanse 00:05:14.829 --> 00:05:18.069 is awesome in the real sense of the word. And 00:05:18.069 --> 00:05:20.689 yes, I think he really captures that sense of 00:05:20.689 --> 00:05:24.990 space and loneliness often in his music. Yes, 00:05:24.990 --> 00:05:26.829 you're right. I think every lover of Grieg's 00:05:26.829 --> 00:05:29.389 piano music should go to see his home, don't 00:05:29.389 --> 00:05:33.670 you think? Yes, and the little hut. I've also 00:05:33.670 --> 00:05:37.410 recently been to Ravel's house just outside Paris. 00:05:37.509 --> 00:05:41.680 Have you been? No. It's... It's absolutely exquisite. 00:05:41.699 --> 00:05:43.899 Of course it is because it's Ravel. But it's 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:47.019 like one of his pieces because he designed the 00:05:47.019 --> 00:05:49.300 wallpaper. He designed everything, every detail. 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:54.740 And it's really quirky and fun. And it's fascinating. 00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:57.120 He moved there just after he finished Le Temple 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:00.980 de Coupin. But for example, he was nocturnal 00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:04.160 and he used to write at the piano during the 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:06.319 night. And that's the darkest room of the house. 00:06:07.509 --> 00:06:10.129 But he was an insomniac and his bedroom is bright 00:06:10.129 --> 00:06:15.509 yellow. Funny in African sleep. Oh, how interesting. 00:06:16.269 --> 00:06:19.889 Whereabouts is it outside of Paris? Oh, I've 00:06:19.889 --> 00:06:22.410 forgotten the name. It's about 40 kilometres 00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:27.329 on route to Versailles. How wonderful. In the 00:06:27.329 --> 00:06:30.910 middle of nowhere. Doesn't he have a house? Wasn't 00:06:30.910 --> 00:06:33.209 there a house in Saint -Jean -de -Luz as well? 00:06:33.269 --> 00:06:35.490 Well, he moved around quite a lot, but this is... 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.139 the house that he bought and he really decorated 00:06:38.139 --> 00:06:41.079 and the gardens are a beautiful sort of Japanese 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:44.699 trees and I mean everything is very specific 00:06:44.699 --> 00:06:47.779 as it would be and it's a museum isn't it it's 00:06:47.779 --> 00:06:51.000 a museum that you can visit at weekends I mean 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:55.339 it's very small but every corner is used and 00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:57.759 beautiful and funny I mean that's what's really 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.500 intriguing he was just very funny wow well they 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:04.319 are both quite remarkable composers aren't they 00:07:05.919 --> 00:07:09.279 And so I'm looking at the other composers on 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.439 your album. And you've got such an interesting 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.399 mix of composers, because then we go to another 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.379 French composer, but quite unknown, Chaminade. 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.899 Yes. How many pieces by her? Two? Two pieces. 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:27.560 And actually, her Autrefois was one of the pieces 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.300 that made me want to record this album. It sort 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:32.180 of seemed to have come together because it also 00:07:32.180 --> 00:07:36.550 looks back at a... time gone past um and I remember 00:07:36.550 --> 00:07:39.069 hearing this for the first time and not really 00:07:39.069 --> 00:07:41.529 knowing who it was by was it Scarlatti was it 00:07:41.529 --> 00:07:44.269 I don't know I just couldn't place it and I found 00:07:44.269 --> 00:07:48.069 it really mesmerizing and I couldn't stop practicing 00:07:48.069 --> 00:07:49.910 it so I thought I have to look into her a bit 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:52.709 more and um she has some lovely sort of salon 00:07:52.709 --> 00:07:57.610 pieces this is also really yes really fun uh 00:07:57.610 --> 00:08:01.759 audiences always like it in concert and um It's 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:04.980 just amazing how composers who were relatively 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:07.199 well known in their own lifetime can then just 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:11.139 disappear. She's had a bit of a revival, I guess. 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:14.959 Yes, exactly. But only very specific pieces. 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:18.379 She had a very long life and so she wrote a lot. 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:22.480 I think flautists know her very well because 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.040 of the flute concerto. But yeah, no, fascinating 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.339 composer. It's just been really fun to discover. 00:08:29.550 --> 00:08:31.649 Yeah, she is amazing. We've had a lot of her 00:08:31.649 --> 00:08:33.789 pieces in the magazine because they're so pleasing. 00:08:33.850 --> 00:08:36.870 They're romantic and they're light and they're 00:08:36.870 --> 00:08:40.590 flowing. Exactly. No, they're really fun. You 00:08:40.590 --> 00:08:42.809 can build really interesting programmes with 00:08:42.809 --> 00:08:46.330 them. So, no, that's been great. Absolutely. 00:08:46.429 --> 00:08:50.250 She was around, of course, during Ravel's life. 00:08:50.529 --> 00:08:54.850 So they were all overlapped up to a point. Ah, 00:08:55.110 --> 00:08:58.929 did they know each other? I don't know. Actually, 00:08:59.110 --> 00:09:00.710 I don't know if that's something to look into. 00:09:01.169 --> 00:09:06.009 But the other composer, Dora Piacevic, is somebody 00:09:06.009 --> 00:09:09.429 that I knew of when I was growing up in Sarajevo 00:09:09.429 --> 00:09:12.570 by name. I'm not even sure that I knew it was 00:09:12.570 --> 00:09:15.830 a woman. I knew of a Piacevic composer, which 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:18.830 is interesting because actually when she had 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:21.789 her symphony premiered in Vienna, I think the 00:09:21.789 --> 00:09:23.730 audience also didn't know it was a woman because 00:09:23.730 --> 00:09:26.889 in the program it stated D. Piacevic. And so 00:09:26.889 --> 00:09:29.440 they were all... aghast when a woman got up to 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:33.340 take her applause at the end. You just couldn't 00:09:33.340 --> 00:09:36.259 get hold of the music when I was a child. And 00:09:36.259 --> 00:09:38.600 in the last sort of 10, 15 years, the Croatian 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:42.639 Music Institute has really been putting together 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.840 all the additions and have done a wonderful job. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:51.000 You can get the whole oeuvre now. And I mean, 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:57.509 what a composer. She's a bit like Janáček. When 00:09:57.509 --> 00:09:59.789 I came across Janáček's music, it really just 00:09:59.789 --> 00:10:02.289 grabbed me. I just wanted to play his music. 00:10:02.389 --> 00:10:04.590 And I've had a very similar reaction to her. 00:10:04.730 --> 00:10:08.110 I guess, like Janáček, she has an immediacy to 00:10:08.110 --> 00:10:13.230 her. To her sound, to her language. She really... 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.200 wears her heart on her sleeve. And I think early 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.600 on, she was very much influenced by Greek. Like 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.460 she wrote, I think, a couple of papillons, which 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:27.440 I'm sure are inspired by Greece, butterfly. And 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.139 later, I mean, she had, sadly, she died aged 00:10:30.139 --> 00:10:33.440 37. So she had a very short life. But in that 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.059 time, she changed so much in her style. And, 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.460 you know, some of her pieces sound like Prokofiev, 00:10:41.460 --> 00:10:44.169 and they're always... very much like her but 00:10:44.169 --> 00:10:46.590 she has a really interesting harmonic language 00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:50.370 and always takes you on a journey it sort of 00:10:50.370 --> 00:10:52.029 feels like she takes the listener by the hand 00:10:52.029 --> 00:10:56.330 and and absolutely tells a story even whether 00:10:56.330 --> 00:10:59.850 it's a short piece or a long piece it's um yes 00:10:59.850 --> 00:11:02.539 absolutely I mean, the piece that you have on 00:11:02.539 --> 00:11:05.659 the album, it's really, it's fantastic. And it's 00:11:05.659 --> 00:11:08.440 lovely. We actually featured it inside Pianist 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:10.840 Magazine two years ago. Yes, they told me about 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:14.039 this. How did you come to discover it? I have 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.059 to be honest with you. I heard it on Radio 3. 00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:19.139 I listened to Radio 3 in the background most 00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:22.399 of the time and it stopped me in my tracks because 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.759 it was, it's breathtakingly beautiful. Everybody 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:27.799 out there, get to the piano and learn this piece. 00:11:27.899 --> 00:11:30.710 Yes, absolutely. Don't you agree? i really do 00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:33.529 agree um and again it's one of the cases somebody 00:11:33.529 --> 00:11:36.750 was that was so well regarded in her time even 00:11:36.750 --> 00:11:39.169 schoenberg thought she was great but then he 00:11:39.169 --> 00:11:41.210 remembered she was a woman and we imagine composed 00:11:41.210 --> 00:11:47.169 but um she she had pieces done in vienna in dresden 00:11:47.169 --> 00:11:51.470 in london even and and then just as she died 00:11:51.470 --> 00:11:53.669 it just all got forgotten it's just extraordinary 00:11:53.669 --> 00:11:57.509 her piano concerto um she wrote a piano concerto 00:11:57.509 --> 00:12:01.169 in a concert I mean it's sort of like Rachmaninov, 00:12:01.169 --> 00:12:05.210 it's really melodic and really feisty writing, 00:12:05.370 --> 00:12:08.970 confident writing and what I noticed with, I'm 00:12:08.970 --> 00:12:10.850 going to be performing a lot of her music in 00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:15.110 the coming season and she and Ravel were both 00:12:15.110 --> 00:12:18.779 paramedics during the first world war. which 00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:22.740 is quite unusual for a countess. She really detested 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:26.360 her class and thought them lazy. And this experience 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:29.320 profoundly changed her, of course. But Ravel, 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.460 I think, became simpler after the First World 00:12:31.460 --> 00:12:35.659 War, whereas I think she became much more feisty, 00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:41.000 confident in her language. So I'm playing one 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:44.009 of the sonatas, which is... her last final piece, 00:12:44.190 --> 00:12:47.070 Opus 57, and it's just extraordinary. It's three 00:12:47.070 --> 00:12:50.690 composed and very different from, I know, Remembrance, 00:12:50.789 --> 00:12:56.970 but fascinating. How interesting. You can't stop 00:12:56.970 --> 00:13:01.509 practising it. Wow. And if you could, I mean, 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:02.889 you say you're playing a lot of her repertoire. 00:13:03.029 --> 00:13:06.289 That, to me, sounds quite challenging, the sonata, 00:13:06.409 --> 00:13:09.049 technically. It is. It is very challenging, technically. 00:13:10.460 --> 00:13:14.200 harmonically she has her own very rich harmonic 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.759 language which is quite hard to learn so it took 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:22.039 me a very long time to memorize and she takes 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:25.500 you on these you know the transitions are unexpected 00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:29.000 and that takes quite a while to master how to 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:35.919 get from A to B both in tempo and in breathing 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:41.009 and phrasing but But it's very satisfying. It's 00:13:41.009 --> 00:13:43.909 a good workout. Wow. Are there any other pieces 00:13:43.909 --> 00:13:47.470 you would say by her that are easier to handle, 00:13:47.549 --> 00:13:49.570 technically, let's say, for the more intermediate 00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:55.070 level? Yes, absolutely. So the Blumenleben, The 00:13:55.070 --> 00:13:57.509 Life of Flowers, I would really recommend, especially 00:13:57.509 --> 00:14:03.090 the rose. It's so sensuous and wonderful. I think 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:06.850 that's sort of maybe grade seven. each level 00:14:06.850 --> 00:14:09.590 some of them are easier um i think there are 00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:12.409 eight in total and they're really wonderful uh 00:14:12.409 --> 00:14:15.190 wonderful pieces and i'm sure again slightly 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:17.169 influenced by the lyric pieces because there's 00:14:17.169 --> 00:14:20.490 something shared in them also the two nocturnes 00:14:20.490 --> 00:14:23.750 opus 50 they're quite impressionistic um yes 00:14:23.750 --> 00:14:27.409 again very beautiful pieces that are definitely 00:14:27.409 --> 00:14:32.929 more manageable and and shorter um okay great 00:14:32.929 --> 00:14:36.539 that's Wonderful to hear. So really, when you're 00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:38.600 looking at, I haven't really touched on Cheryl 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.080 Francis -Hode yet and her dance suite, which 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:43.759 appears on the album. That's right. Could you 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.700 tell us a little bit about her? Yes. Well, Cheryl 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.460 has been a composer that I've been working with 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:54.340 for since 2012, I think. But we were friends 00:14:54.340 --> 00:14:58.840 at Cambridge and I love her music. And if there 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.399 is a chance of playing her music, I'm always 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.059 very happy to do so. And just by pure coincidence, 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:06.899 she happened to have written this dance suite 00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:09.659 when I was putting together a dance -inspired 00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:12.399 album, so I thought I had to include this. And 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:16.220 it's nice to hear how composers who are living 00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:19.500 today also react to these old dance forms and 00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:22.179 how they take it forward and what they come up 00:15:22.179 --> 00:15:26.159 with. So I think it just fits quite nicely and 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.110 it's a bit of a... different palette to all the 00:15:29.110 --> 00:15:33.549 other composers. And it's nice to have a predominantly 00:15:33.549 --> 00:15:35.870 female album, actually. So three women and two 00:15:35.870 --> 00:15:41.490 men. Did she sit down with you and work on the 00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:45.990 piece with you? Not this one, no. She just sent 00:15:45.990 --> 00:15:51.110 me the score and I liked it. But when she's written 00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:54.330 pieces for me before, I mean, I trust her so 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:57.110 much and it's, you know, it's not... I'm not 00:15:57.110 --> 00:15:59.070 a composer. I can't tell her what to do. So I'm 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:02.309 very happy for her to just write me something, 00:16:02.389 --> 00:16:05.750 which is also a little bit nerve -wracking because 00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:07.409 you never know what you're going to get, but 00:16:07.409 --> 00:16:11.409 also fun and, you know, what an honour. So we've 00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:14.830 never really had an exchange. I might give her 00:16:14.830 --> 00:16:20.509 a concept or an idea, but that's as far as it 00:16:20.509 --> 00:16:22.389 goes. I just know that she will come up with 00:16:22.389 --> 00:16:25.389 something brilliant every time. So this was written 00:16:25.389 --> 00:16:28.669 for you, the dance suite? No, no, no. So it was 00:16:28.669 --> 00:16:33.190 done in pristine. It was just available at the 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:36.769 right time. So I'm happy to include it too. And 00:16:36.769 --> 00:16:38.769 it's a world premiere recording. It is a world 00:16:38.769 --> 00:16:42.370 premiere recording, indeed. Yes. And the album, 00:16:42.450 --> 00:16:44.850 when is the album out or it's already out? It's 00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:48.889 not. It's out in just under a month on the 21st 00:16:48.889 --> 00:16:52.299 of November. Oh, 21st of November. There have 00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:54.480 been singles released every two weeks leading 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:59.720 up to it. It's very nice to have an album. It's 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.620 been quite a while since my last one in 2019. 00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:07.019 Oh, well, the programming is beautiful. I think 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:11.660 listeners will really enjoy this. So what I'm 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:12.839 going to do now is just ask you a little bit 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.880 about your background, actually, because, you 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.099 know, some pianists do the competition route. 00:17:18.970 --> 00:17:20.549 you know when first of all there's been so many 00:17:20.549 --> 00:17:24.250 competitions this year yes but you went to you 00:17:24.250 --> 00:17:29.410 say you studied at Cambridge yes I well I started 00:17:29.410 --> 00:17:31.789 music school when I was six before I started 00:17:31.789 --> 00:17:36.430 normal school and I grew up in Sarajevo and we 00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:38.210 start normal school if you can call it normal 00:17:38.210 --> 00:17:41.349 school a lot later so at the age of seven so 00:17:41.349 --> 00:17:44.690 my mum being a pianist I think just wanted to 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:49.470 start me off so that's and we have we had lessons 00:17:49.470 --> 00:17:52.430 twice a week and twice a week solfege so it was 00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:55.930 quite intense and when i came to the uk age 12 00:17:55.930 --> 00:18:01.450 i continued at junior guildhall so i felt you 00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:03.849 know especially given what had happened from 00:18:03.849 --> 00:18:07.869 where i was from i felt it would be wise to to 00:18:07.869 --> 00:18:11.440 have a a degree, and also I wanted to meet people 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.720 who are not musicians. I thought that was, you 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:16.980 know, as a pianist, you're in a room on your 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:21.539 own for a long time. And I'm very sociable and 00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:23.660 I like to hear about other subjects and hear 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:26.299 about, meet people. So I thought it was just 00:18:26.299 --> 00:18:29.839 a, what a great opportunity if you manage to 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:32.119 get a place at Cambridge. So I did that, but 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:35.960 I didn't realise at the time just how much performing 00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:38.390 there would be at Cambridge because not part 00:18:38.390 --> 00:18:40.509 of the course but people would just get together 00:18:40.509 --> 00:18:43.190 and you know put on opera put on a concerto and 00:18:43.190 --> 00:18:46.309 be proactive about that and I think I learned 00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:50.109 so much from that and that's been a great asset 00:18:50.109 --> 00:18:54.349 to me and to have those networks and people that 00:18:54.349 --> 00:18:57.309 I met who are actually still performing almost 00:18:57.309 --> 00:19:00.349 even more from Cambridge than I from my colleagues 00:19:00.349 --> 00:19:02.049 at the Royal College of Music where I then did 00:19:02.049 --> 00:19:06.789 my masters. Okay, okay. You don't imagine that 00:19:06.789 --> 00:19:09.210 you go to Cambridge and you're performing a lot. 00:19:09.289 --> 00:19:10.930 You imagine it's going to be so academic, don't 00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:13.029 you? Well, it is, it is. I had to write a lot 00:19:13.029 --> 00:19:19.750 of fugues. Yeah. Which was painful. It doesn't 00:19:19.750 --> 00:19:22.309 come naturally, fugues and analysing Gregorian 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:25.009 chants and things like that, which I think I 00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:27.869 was just a bit... It would be nice to do now, 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:30.349 I think, now that I'm a bit older and would enjoy 00:19:30.349 --> 00:19:33.980 that more, but at the time it... it was just 00:19:33.980 --> 00:19:36.759 something i did but uh and write many essays 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.240 but actually one of the courses um by marina 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.920 frollo walker was really something that grabbed 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:48.259 me and uh sandy goa used to teach um ballet bruce 00:19:48.259 --> 00:19:50.740 and that that that period i mean this is sort 00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:53.680 of the same period but if i could go back in 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:55.380 time and be born at a different time it would 00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:58.380 definitely be that so so that that was very inspiring 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:02.220 um and you know it just teaches you a lot we 00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.740 we did learn a lot or we learned how little we 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.880 knew at least while on that course that's so 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:09.420 interesting yeah and you then you went to the 00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.380 Royal College of Music yeah so you decided to 00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:15.859 go back to a real music I decided to to see um 00:20:15.859 --> 00:20:18.099 whether I could make a career out of playing 00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:22.480 the piano and yeah and you have you have um I 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.160 believe you also um you do work for Music Action 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.299 International I don't work for them but I'm uh 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:34.440 what they call an ambassador um i well given 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.640 my background i i think it's really important 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:41.539 for refugees um to give them a sense of pride 00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:45.039 or purpose uh when they come to this country 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.599 and a lot of um refugees that music action international 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:51.200 works with have been through horrendous experiences 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.339 and and through music whether they had a music 00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:59.250 background or not they get put in bands and They 00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:01.490 get to make music together and also maybe perform 00:21:01.490 --> 00:21:06.829 together, make CDs together, perhaps even eventually 00:21:06.829 --> 00:21:09.450 make a living out of this. And it's just so powerful 00:21:09.450 --> 00:21:13.730 and so important that I think whenever I get 00:21:13.730 --> 00:21:16.769 a chance to talk about their work or publicise 00:21:16.769 --> 00:21:19.869 them, I try to do that. Oh, that's absolutely 00:21:19.869 --> 00:21:25.089 lovely. OK, so I think now, away from the heavy 00:21:25.089 --> 00:21:29.150 staff, I'm going to ask you. some rather light 00:21:29.150 --> 00:21:32.710 -hearted questions and um if you could just answer 00:21:32.710 --> 00:21:36.049 them really off the cuff okay um and so here 00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:39.890 we go um the first question if you could play 00:21:39.890 --> 00:21:42.950 only one composer from now on who would it be 00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:57.130 why because it has everything um it's mentally, 00:21:57.230 --> 00:22:00.289 emotionally, physically challenging and rewarding. 00:22:01.650 --> 00:22:07.170 Yeah. I think I can understand that. Okay. End 00:22:07.170 --> 00:22:11.769 of that. Definitely Bach. Yes. Okay. Maybe Schubert 00:22:11.769 --> 00:22:17.230 as well. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Two very, yeah. 00:22:18.369 --> 00:22:22.410 Fit perfectly there. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. One 00:22:22.410 --> 00:22:25.920 pianist, dead or alive, you'd travel long. and 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:31.559 far to hear? So can I have a dead and an alive 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:35.859 one? Why not? I think Martha Argerich, who's 00:22:35.859 --> 00:22:39.259 just extraordinary. I mean, how is that possible? 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:43.859 And Liszt, I'd love to hear Liszt. I would really 00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:47.099 love, I mean, it must have been amazing. I hope 00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:49.799 it was amazing. I don't know. I mean, I just 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.680 would want to be at one of those concerts. Two 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.059 very, very good answers, I have to say. Martha 00:22:56.059 --> 00:22:57.759 Rogwich was playing last night at the Wigmore 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.480 Hall. I know, I was so sad I couldn't get tickets. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.539 I was there 10 years ago for the 75th birthday 00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.380 and they play the symphonic dancers and that 00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:08.500 was just extraordinary. And I've heard her since 00:23:08.500 --> 00:23:11.960 in Switzerland and I mean, she just gets better 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.380 and better. Oh my goodness, yeah. She is somebody 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:18.619 you would travel long and far to hear, isn't 00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:22.079 she? Absolutely. Absolutely. Amazing. She looked 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:24.319 incredibly fresh and played incredibly freshly 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.519 last night. It was incredible. You know. How? 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:33.799 I know, how? Anyway. One person dead or alive 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:44.559 you'd love to play for? So this is tricky. Mozart? 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:50.259 No. What do you think he'd say? I don't know, 00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.180 but I would quite like to meet him. So I think 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:58.079 that's an excuse to meet him. He'd be your teacher 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.779 of choice. Yes, or somebody sort of a little 00:24:01.779 --> 00:24:07.720 bit unusual like that personality. Ravel? I mean, 00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:12.940 yes, absolutely, Ravel. Or Beethoven. Not sure 00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:14.640 I would want to receive their feedback, but I 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:20.170 would love to meet them. They might be very critical. 00:24:20.269 --> 00:24:25.029 Yes, I think that goes without saying. Okay. 00:24:25.130 --> 00:24:27.750 Do you yourself have any technical struggles 00:24:27.750 --> 00:24:32.549 at the keyboard? I mean, who doesn't? I mean, 00:24:32.569 --> 00:24:34.829 every piece brings its own technical struggles, 00:24:34.890 --> 00:24:39.349 I think. And the key is to think musically through 00:24:39.349 --> 00:24:42.990 them. I do suffer sometimes from sweaty hands, 00:24:43.170 --> 00:24:47.410 which... In concert, which is annoying. And sometimes 00:24:47.410 --> 00:24:51.349 you have to make up fingering on the spot. It 00:24:51.349 --> 00:24:56.269 keeps you on your toes. But I try to not think 00:24:56.269 --> 00:24:59.849 about it. Some people who are in a similar position 00:24:59.849 --> 00:25:03.049 do go through extreme treatments. But then I 00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:04.450 think you think about it more and then it just 00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:10.299 gets worse. Oh, how interesting. making up new 00:25:10.299 --> 00:25:12.700 fingerings on the spot my goodness that's that's 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:16.539 like a nightmare well it can be fun it can be 00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:20.319 fun too but i've discovered once i was um quite 00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:22.980 jet lagged after flying to america to play and 00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:26.480 i had very dry hands really really dry and that 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.019 was even worse because i couldn't grip on the 00:25:29.019 --> 00:25:32.000 keys so i'm just happy with what i have there 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.400 do you wear do you wear do you do any warm -uppy 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.589 things to help your hands like Well, you wouldn't 00:25:39.589 --> 00:25:41.730 need fingerless gloves, would you? But I mean, 00:25:41.750 --> 00:25:44.250 some people... You mean in general or just because 00:25:44.250 --> 00:25:47.349 of... Yeah, maybe to help you before a performance. 00:25:48.450 --> 00:25:52.970 Just sort of finger warm -ups, yeah, or chords. 00:25:53.589 --> 00:25:55.549 Depends on what I'm playing. It's sort of different 00:25:55.549 --> 00:25:58.190 every day. I don't have a very set routine. Do 00:25:58.190 --> 00:25:59.769 you not? I was actually, just now that we're 00:25:59.769 --> 00:26:01.890 talking, do you do your scales? Do you do warm 00:26:01.890 --> 00:26:05.339 -ups like that? Yeah, I love scales. or some 00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:08.299 studies uh Chopin studies or even Czerny studies 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:13.740 um but I it's a very slow practice of the pieces 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:18.500 I'm doing but more what I'm more um set on on 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:20.740 the concert day is sort of when I eat and when 00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:23.880 I sleep and what I eat it's more things like 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:29.089 that rather than how I play interesting Do you 00:26:29.089 --> 00:26:31.269 eat light before you play? Yes. You can't have 00:26:31.269 --> 00:26:33.470 a heavy meal. I used to eat heavy. I used to 00:26:33.470 --> 00:26:37.190 eat a lot. But as I've got older, you know, light 00:26:37.190 --> 00:26:40.930 and fish rather than, and never pasta. I think 00:26:40.930 --> 00:26:46.569 calves. Yes. No. Yes. Bananas, grapes and fish. 00:26:47.230 --> 00:26:50.170 Okay. But not together. Bananas, grapes and fish. 00:26:50.430 --> 00:26:55.960 No, no. That's so interesting. Okay, what would 00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:58.460 be your advice to an amateur pianist about how 00:26:58.460 --> 00:27:04.019 to improve? Well, apart from practice, obviously, 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:11.559 live. Go and listen to concerts, go to art exhibitions, 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:16.819 read, listen to other people, not on your instruments. 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.740 Go to the opera, go to orchestral concerts, go 00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:23.279 and hear singers. I think especially singers 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.420 for pianists. Definitely. Definitely. We all 00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:29.759 want to have that cantabile, don't we? Yeah, 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:34.079 absolutely. And phrasing. It's so easy to forget 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.519 to breathe when you're playing. I mean, not literally, 00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:40.660 but, you know, musically. And because we don't 00:27:40.660 --> 00:27:42.980 need to change our bow or we don't need to take 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:47.420 a breath. And the quality, the technical proficiency 00:27:47.420 --> 00:27:51.680 nowadays is so high. But sometimes at the expense 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:57.980 of... phrasing and expression absolutely um if 00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:04.140 you weren't a pianist what would you be either 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:10.720 a doctor or an architect okay why why a doctor 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:14.299 because it's something meaningful and being with 00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:17.579 people and helping people um i was very close 00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:22.000 to studying medicine but decided not to And architect 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.539 because it's, again, a little bit like creating 00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:27.960 your interpretation, sort of building structures, 00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:32.660 I think. That's my concept of what an architect 00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:38.160 does. I don't know. Creating structures and patterns 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:45.339 and just being creative. Absolutely. Very, very 00:28:45.339 --> 00:28:47.859 interesting. Oh, final question. One composer 00:28:47.859 --> 00:28:53.789 you're not quite ready to tackle. Brahms. Why 00:28:53.789 --> 00:28:58.269 is that? I don't know. I mean, some pieces, maybe. 00:28:58.450 --> 00:29:03.230 I don't know. I just think other people can say 00:29:03.230 --> 00:29:06.029 it better than I can. I used to play a lot of 00:29:06.029 --> 00:29:12.470 his music when I was at the college. Yeah, I 00:29:12.470 --> 00:29:15.990 don't know. That's interesting. Yeah, I myself, 00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:21.170 I'm not... I prefer not to play Brahms. But what 00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:25.829 about Schumann? I played a lot of Kreisleriana. 00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:27.869 I love his concerto. I mean, if I could just, 00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:30.589 that's actually one of those pieces that I'm 00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:32.950 so happy to practice. My husband always says 00:29:32.950 --> 00:29:34.970 that you're always in a good mood when you're 00:29:34.970 --> 00:29:37.849 practicing the concerto. And it's true. I just 00:29:37.849 --> 00:29:43.609 adore that. But some Schumann, not all Schumann. 00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:48.980 Have you played his Fantasy? No. I've taught 00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:53.299 it, but I haven't played it. Okay. Yeah, Schubert. 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:57.640 I mean, you know, my taste has changed so much 00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.299 since I've been a student, so who knows? Who 00:30:00.299 --> 00:30:03.839 knows? Yeah, there's a lot of composers out there, 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.759 aren't there? Yes, and you sort of grow and you 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.799 mature, and there was a time when I didn't understand 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:12.859 Schubert, and now I don't understand how I didn't 00:30:12.859 --> 00:30:15.720 understand Schubert, so, you know. Of course, 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:19.859 of course. So one grows and matures. Yes. And 00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:21.539 that's what's really interesting and fun. You're 00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:23.099 just drawn to different things and different 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:29.200 tastes. Absolutely. And before we sign off, I 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.839 know you're very busy at the moment, but I think 00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:34.539 you're giving a recital. You'll be giving a recital 00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:38.500 a week after this podcast comes out. Yes. In 00:30:38.500 --> 00:30:43.500 London. In London. in fact two, I will be launching 00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:47.920 the album on Monday the 24th of November at ZL's 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.839 which is a lovely jazz venue, it's actually called 00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:56.160 the Crazy Cox, where I filmed the video of Chaminade 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.599 Autrefois so if you go online you can see what 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.079 it looks like but it's really because I thought 00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:03.460 it might be fun given the title of the album 00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:06.579 and the repertoire. to play somewhere that's 00:31:06.579 --> 00:31:12.359 a little bit less formal. And Ravel spent many 00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:16.160 nights going to listen to jazz musicians and 00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:20.299 watch people dance in Paris. And so it's really, 00:31:20.460 --> 00:31:22.559 I think he would approve of the Parisian decor 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:27.480 that's Adele's 1920s decor and also the cocktails. 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:31.339 Oh, yes. And you're playing there twice? I'm 00:31:31.339 --> 00:31:33.720 playing at seven o 'clock. It's just over now. 00:31:33.859 --> 00:31:37.079 And then at 9 .15, just over now. Fantastic. 00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:39.779 It's most of the album, so it'll be quite fun. 00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:43.359 Fantastic. OK. And for the rest of the year, 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.900 busy, busy? Yes, mainly learning lots of new 00:31:46.900 --> 00:31:50.720 repertoire. I have a new duo with Tim Horton 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:53.859 on two pianos. So we're doing the symphonic dances 00:31:53.859 --> 00:31:58.730 early in next year. And learning Rhapsody in 00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.849 Blue as well, which is new to me. And lots of 00:32:01.849 --> 00:32:05.069 Mendelssohn. So watch this space. Yes, I know. 00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:10.190 Oh, that's wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. Well, 00:32:10.230 --> 00:32:12.190 listen, I think we've come to an end. That was 00:32:12.190 --> 00:32:14.390 just such a lovely conversation. Thank you. I 00:32:14.390 --> 00:32:15.869 really enjoyed that. I forgot that it was an 00:32:15.869 --> 00:32:18.950 interview. No, that was lovely. And we've never 00:32:18.950 --> 00:32:22.349 really had a chance to chat. So it was a pleasure. 00:32:22.390 --> 00:32:25.819 And I hope everybody else has enjoyed it. I'll 00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:28.660 be there on the 21st of November for sure. Thank 00:32:28.660 --> 00:32:33.940 you. 24th. Sorry? 24th of November. Oh, 24. The 00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:37.220 album comes out on the 21st, but the launch concerts 00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:39.819 are on the 24th. Oh, okay. I've made a note. 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.059 Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much, Ivana, 00:32:43.059 --> 00:32:45.240 for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's 00:32:45.240 --> 00:33:12.480 been really fun. Thank you. You're welcome. That 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.980 was the Toccata from Ravel's Le Tombeau de Couperin, 00:33:16.099 --> 00:33:19.339 and it was performed by Ivana Gavrik. Pianist 00:33:19.339 --> 00:33:21.700 podcasts are free, and a really good way to support 00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:25.039 what we do is by subscribing to Pianist. Visit 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.759 our website at pianistmagazine .com and listen 00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.140 to us on YouTube by searching Pianist Magazine. 00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:33.920 And don't forget to sign up to our newsletter, 00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:36.640 which is full of extra playing tips and useful 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.480 information. Go to pianistmagazine .com. to find 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:41.660 out how to sign up