Oh my goodness, I think I fixed the vocals. I'm hoping this sounds a lot better.
If so, please somebody comment and let me know because I want to make sure that this sounds the best it can.
And welcome everyone again to the pop out. I'm your host Albert Shin and I'm excited for these next two episodes where I get to talk about, you know, community colleges.
And specifically in this episode, I wanted to cover who might be a good fit for community colleges and whether or not you should actually be considering going to a community college and then transferring over to a four year university for your bachelor's.
Okay. So, you know, this is actually the primary audience I had in mind when I started this podcast. This was made primarily the podcast was made for first and foremost my students.
And I teach at a community college, specifically one in California.
So, I do have some knowledge of the way that it works here. It also goes back to my days as an academic counselor when I was at UCLA and having some knowledge of the transferring process and what the UCs anyways are looking for.
I cannot speak I want to be upfront about this I cannot speak to other states. Okay. What I will provide is my understanding of the community college system here in California. And what I understand is that it's probably better than it might be in most other states in terms of the opportunity
that students have. But, you know, you'll have to check for your own specific state whether the things I say here actually apply. Okay, so that caveat is really important here. I don't want people to get the wrong idea and think I'm speaking on things that I don't know anything about.
All right. So let me first start off and let's think through right. Who might be a good candidate for community colleges. Well, first things first, if you get into like if you're straight out of high school you applied and you got into, you know, one of like the top 50 national universities right someplace where they have a, you know, wide range of programs even if you don't know what you want to do.
They're pretty much good at across the board almost anything. You're going to find something that you can, you know, succeed at and find interest in at whatever the colleges you got into.
I would say just go straight in to the four year institution. Okay.
Even if it might cost you a bit of money. All right. And the reason for that is, you know, it goes back to something I've been mentioning and talking about a lot in the past episodes which is one of the ways in which people find success through college has nothing to do with the education you get from the college.
Okay. You need the degree to just demonstrate that you're capable of, you know, following through and then getting certain kind of work done but you know college is not like a vocational program you're not being trained for anything in particular.
The biggest benefit of college has to do as I've said, with the kind of network that you create for yourself. Right. So, you know, whether it's the alumni network, people who have attended those universities in the past who are willing to give you opportunities, or the kind of connections
made with, you know, businesses and companies in that area, or if it's the friends that you make right the friends you make in college they go on to succeed and you're for friends with them you have these connections to people who are in positions that can really help you out or help people
that you know or care about, help them out. Right. Or just a connection you make with administrators or faculty we've talked about this right that is important to get into a research university if you want to go into graduate or professional school, in part because
these people carry some weight when they write you write a letter of recommendation on your behalf right. So, if you're able to go straight into the four year college, where these connections are available.
Then it's a good idea just to get started right away. Because the first couple years is when you form a lot of those social bonds with friends is your chance to have that extra two years to get connected with faculty and administrators, and also to take advantage of the
programs that are available for your first couple years in college. Okay, that'll help build your resume up pretty early. A lot of these opportunities are not available at the community college level. Okay, because community colleges are meant to be a teaching
institution it's not a research institution or at least not primarily one faculty there are not expected to do a bunch of research there, you know, their tenure, you know whether they get tenured or not.
Often doesn't depend at all on whether or not they do a lot of researching and publishing and you know, creating these sorts of opportunities and community colleges are not necessarily in the business of connecting you with big name companies or places that could put you in a
real big you know position of power. So, you know, if you can, you do get into one of the top 50 even if it's not your first choice that's fine. I understand there might be some disappointment, but my recommendation would be just to go and then make the most of it right
and usually if you go in with the right attitude and you try to make the most of your experience, you're going to do great. You're going to do great you have nothing to worry about. Okay.
So, first things first, you go straight out of college. Okay, you get into one of those top 50 national universities. Okay, or one of the reputable like you know, liberal arts colleges, you know, just go straight there.
Just go straight there. Okay.
Who should be considering going to community college. Okay, there's a there's a selected group of students who I think would benefit greatly from going to community colleges. Okay.
Let me start with the first group. Okay. One group of students might not have done necessarily well in terms of the metrics right in terms of SAT scores and GPA, while they were in high school, but they had a good reason for it.
Okay, so these are students who because of life circumstances, it was very, very difficult for them to get good grades. Okay, I'll give you some examples right because these are just real life examples from students have encountered right so some students had to work a full time job because of financial constraints on the family.
Others had to leave their home and declare independence from their parents because of abuse happening in the home.
Okay.
Let's see, others have been were struggling through some medical issue. Right, or a mental health crisis. And so it's reflected in their grades where they couldn't get any studying or work done, because they were going through other things in their life.
So there's a large swath of students who are in this sort of position, but they might have the definitely have the potential. Okay, they have the potential to do well academically, if they're given the right sort of set of circumstances when they're given the right opportunity.
Those students, when they apply straight out of high school will most likely not get into some of the better universities, because I've said this before right like they need to know that you're capable of doing the work so regardless of your life circumstances.
If you can't demonstrate that you can do the work by your past, you know, academic record.
There's a genuine concern because they're not universities are not going to bring you on to their university just so that you could fail. Right. And that's really what they're going to be doing if they accept you, even when you haven't demonstrated that you're capable of doing the work.
Right. You don't have the writing skills to be able to keep up or the reading skills to keep up in a college class. Okay.
Those students might need the time to really build up the resume to demonstrate that they're actually capable of doing the work. You can develop that sort of resume at a community college. Right.
So these are the students who, for whatever reason, like it could just be like, you know, they just did not have their act together and they just need a little more time to get their act together.
They, you know, had trouble in high school, but, you know, they got their act together and then now they know that they could actually do quite well if they just focus on their academics. Right.
Those students can go to community college, demonstrate that they could get good grades because community colleges really essentially are the, you know, the classes that are offered are going to be the introductory courses that are supposed to be on par.
And in many cases they are, I would say, with the four year institutions. And so if you're getting A's in a community college class, that shows that you could probably get A's at a four year college. Right.
For the same introductory course that's offered at a four year college. Right. So for those students, you should go to community colleges to really build up your resume. Right.
To show, hey, I am actually a very competitive student. Right. I'm capable of handling the load and I would benefit greatly from going to one of the more competitive colleges.
But I just wasn't able to demonstrate it while I was in high school. But let me demonstrate it here at community college. Okay. So that's the first group of students. Right. So if you're in this bunch, then community college might be a good idea for you.
Now, I want to make a quick note about something. Right. The assumption here is that you would actually perform well at community college. But here's the thing.
If life is still holding you down in a lot of ways, then it's not going to go into community college isn't going to get rid of those problems. Does this make sense? Right.
You're going to have to address whatever is going on in your life that is keeping you from performing at your best. Right. Whether it's financial difficulty, whether it's whatever it is. Right. You need to address it.
Now, community colleges are great in that they understand that many students who come through the doors are in this sort of circumstance. And we try to help you with various resources.
And some community colleges are have more resources than others. Okay. I have the privilege of teaching at Pasadena City College. It's one of the larger community college here in California, along with one in San Francisco, I believe, and Santa Monica College.
Okay. I've been to other community colleges and they don't have as many resources. So, you know, your mileage may vary depending on what community you live in. You might not be able to attend, you know, a community college that has all these resources.
And again, like, you know, physical limitations. Right. Like if you live in one location, you might not be able to travel like two hours to go to a bigger community college with more resources. Right.
Luckily, nowadays, after especially after the pandemic, a lot of services have been shifted to providing some sort of hybrid or some online, some in person. So you might be able to get a lot of the services that you weren't able to get before.
But it's something that you'll want to kind of keep in mind because not all community colleges are created equal. Not all of them have the same set of resources. Not all of them offer the same set of classes.
Not all of them have the same quality faculty. Right. It varies significantly. Right. Just as four-year colleges vary significantly in the quality and the resources they have. Okay.
So just keep that in mind. But most community colleges, from my experience, have some resources anyways to help students along if you're facing these difficulties. Right.
One of the reasons a lot of students sign up for community colleges is that because of financial difficulty, they can't afford health care. Well, one of the things that is covered. Right. And your tuitions is health care. Right.
And that could help in getting kind of like getting you situated and getting you to a place where you can succeed academically. Okay. Again, this is no guarantee. You still need to get your act together.
You still need to figure out what's happening and that's a barrier in your life. Community colleges don't make that disappear. They could help you along the way, but they won't make that disappear.
And in my opinion, the first thing you need to address is whatever is, you know, biggest in your life. Right. Whatever should be taking priority, which might not necessarily be education at that moment.
However, if you're able to at least maintain. Right. Then I would say community college would be a good opportunity for you where you could get at least some additional assistance and then really show what you really can do that you weren't able to show while you were in high school.
Okay. So that's the first group. Okay. Second group of students are those that have had trouble building up a resume because society put a lot of our life.
How do I put this right. Your status somehow prevents you from being able to get into a four year college right I'm thinking specifically about undocumented students. I'm thinking about immigrants who have to pay way more they have to pay out of state out of, you know, out of country like fees.
So they have to pay more so there's a bigger financial burden.
And there are people who just did not have a decent public education because they just, their community just didn't provide one right.
It wasn't because they didn't try, but because they just went to a particular like high school for instance right that they just weren't able to get into a four year institution.
Or, you know, they just didn't know that they had to apply they missed deadlines because they just, right, they didn't have the resources people there to support them in this way.
I'm trying to think who else like veterans, right, veterans especially people who have gone overseas, and now are coming back and are now trying to build a life after their life had been in some sense delayed right by serving our country.
And so, you know, those people will benefit greatly from going to a community college for the for similar reason because you could build a kind of resumes indicating that you're capable, but it's also because there's also a bunch of rules and regulations that
prohibit some students from applying to four year colleges directly right there that make it extremely difficult. Okay. Let me give you one example of this right so there's a limitation to the number of international students
that you know public universities can accept. And that's partly because public universities, as a name indicates, have certain agreements with their state or their community.
And so as a result, a lot of them have certain kind of residency requirements for you to be part of the pool of people that are given significant consideration, and they might bring in some people that are let's say out of state or international students,
but they're going to accept less. And that's part of the reason that if you look at all of the University of California schools right UCI UC Berkeley UCLA UC San Diego UC Merced all of them right.
If you go down the list you'll see that, you know, there's a disproportionate number of students that come from California. That's not by accident right.
That's not because, you know, the California students are somehow more competitive or, you know, it's probably true that they get most of their applicants from California, but it's partly because there are agreements in place that this is a public
university that you should be serving the public.
And specifically, it will give an advantage to us citizens and residents of a particular state. Okay, which means international students get kind of locked out, with the exception of a very few out of state students oftentimes get locked out.
It's harder for you to get into for instance one of the competitive UCs. If you come from out of state, then if you were a California resident.
Okay, this has always been the case because of the nature of public universities. All right.
So, for whatever reason if you're blocked out or if your chances were diminished because of those reasons, community colleges are a way to give, put you on even playing field.
Right. Put you on even playing field because when you go to a community college no longer are you right I mean you're still might be an international student for instance right.
But, because you were able to demonstrate that you could compete along the rest of them right as an international student you could you could compete and do well and you know do well in your classes with other people who are non international students for instance.
Your resume is going to speak right in the same way that it would any other student coming out of community college.
It doesn't make any sense. Right. That in other words the disadvantage that you initially had, because you're an international student that dissipates to a large degree, when you have, you know, a whole slew of classes that you've taken and done well and at a community college.
Okay, so undocumented students like there's, there's a there's a long list of these students who have, for whatever reason, been given less of a shot at getting into a four year college.
Community colleges could, to some degree, even out the playing field for you.
Okay, so it's something that I think you might want to consider. Okay. By the way, if there are counselors at any of these community colleges and you could correct me if I'm wrong or if there's different states where things are done differently.
I'm going to be hearing in the comments and to get to know more. Like I said, my knowledge in this area is limited and I think it really helps to have a larger discussion with people who are in the know, so that you all of you can provide some insight into the type of students
that might benefit greatly from going to community colleges. Okay.
There's another group of people that might be interested in community college and these are just simply people who are wanting to learn. They might not necessarily be doing it for a particular reason or necessarily to transfer.
Community colleges at their core is a educational institution for the people of the community. And that's everybody. That's why there is no screening process for who gets to take classes.
Everybody is welcomed at a community college. Right. And, you know, one of my best experiences teaching have been people who are wanting an education for the sake of an education.
Okay, these are people that, you know, have retired. Right. And they want to improve their learning. It could be people who are inspired to get a college degree just for the sake of getting a college degree right they might have had kids.
They're all grown their kids went off to college and seeing their kids go off to college inspired them to try to get a college degree that they couldn't get themselves.
It could be people who are looking for career change right. So, this is something that some people have to do if they want to career change, they might need to take certain basic classes in order to get into whatever program that they need to in order to get a career
change for instance like if I wanted to switch over to nursing today, then I definitely did not take all the science classes I need to to apply for nursing school, I would have to go back to school, take a bunch of these classes, and then apply to nursing school right
community college is a good place to get that done and get it done way cheaper than it would be at like a, at a four year college because four year colleges. Those introductory classes are just as expensive as the upper division was the tuition is, is far greater.
Right. So this might be a good opportunity.
All right, another group of students are ones that are facing significant financial constraints. And a lot of times this coincides with their status, either as a US citizen or not as a resident or not.
Right. But, like I said like certain people because of the way that they're categorized by society, end up having to take on a significant financial burden that, you know, US citizens for instance don't have to.
Right. They couldn't apply for FAFSA, they can't get any government funding and so on. And for them, going to a four year institution for four years will put a significant dent in their financial abilities going forward right like it's going to be not only a bigger debt but it's going to be worse debt, right, because they can't get the quality protected student loans.
But instead we'll have to rely on certain kinds of private loans that tend to be to some degree predatory. Right. So, those students might benefit from saving some money by going to community college first.
Okay.
So, like I said, there's a whole swath of people that I think benefit greatly from going to a community college. Okay.
As opposed to going straight into a four year institution. Now I want to point out one additional kind of lane of students right which is high school students. Oftentimes, community colleges have a dual enrollment program with some of the local high schools where some of the more advanced
high school students can take college courses. Okay.
I want to be very careful here. Okay. So, first off, okay.
You'll want to dot your i's and cross your t's right when doing this because if you take too many college classes, then you might be considered a transfer student after you graduate high school, so you want to be careful, because the categorization here matters for what, what group you're in and how you're being considered
when transferring over to a four year college.
Okay.
So, the first thing is, not all places offer this dual enrollment. And third, if you do try to take it in the summers or sometimes students try to take it in those condensed periods like in the summer, or night classes.
Just know that college classes like if you were to compare, this might just be my opinion but, you know, people who have done both can kind of maybe try to explain.
AP classes and commute college or any college classes I should say, are not the same. There's a reason that a lot of colleges are not willing to accept AP scores as college credit, they might help you and you should definitely do it because it might help show that you're
competitive and that you have a great deal of effort and you're constantly pushing yourself and all of this right. So, take AP classes and you know do well on the AP exams if that's the opportunity that's available to you.
But in terms of the difficulty of an AP exam versus a college course, they're just not on the same level.
I don't know if there ever was a time where they're on the same level. Right. I mean one way to think about it is the following right like if I were to take an AP let's say US history exam.
Like think of all that material that you might have studied an entire year for, condensed into one semester, maybe less. Right. That's the pace at which a college is going to go with regards to these introductory courses right.
And so, you know, one thing that you want to keep in mind is there, you should kind of know what you're getting yourself into.
Okay, but also because a lot of these students tend to take it like for instance in the summer. Right, where in the summer courses, the courses are condensed and so they're even more intense. Right. There's more information you have to learn.
And it's not as if the test get easier because it's a condensed course you're expected to cover the same amount and the same amount of material in that short period of time, they tend to be a lot more intense and so it could impact your grade like so there's no point in going to a community college for these classes if you're not going to do well in them.
The point is, if you're prepared you're ready, and you can do well in them, then you should be one of the students who tried to go ahead and do so. Okay.
But that is an opportunity so there's some subset of students who might, who this might apply to where you're still in high school, you're advanced enough that you can handle a college course load. Right.
You know what you're getting yourself into, you have the time to do it. You go ahead and do it. Okay. Great.
Okay. All right.
Lastly, there is a group of students that applied for a four year college, and they got into one of the top, let's say 50 like national universities. Okay.
But their first choice was, let me use California example right, if you're a California student, and your first choice, and your second choice is UCLA and UC Berkeley and your third choice is let's say like UC San Diego, and your fourth choice is like UCI right so in other words, you highly value these UCs but you didn't get into any of them your first time around. Okay.
But you know that a community college in California, at least some of these community colleges have an agreement with the UCs that give you a leg up. If you do really well, and you go through the honors program and you go through certain, there's a little checkbox, a list of things that you could accomplish
that give you a leg up when you transfer that improves your chances of getting into one of these UCs. Okay.
Assuming that you are a student that is dedicated and works hard and you have the ability to do really well academically, you've demonstrated that in high school, you just happen to not get into one of these colleges, but you really want to like these are really at the top of your list
right. Okay.
Then, community college might be a very good option for you. Okay.
Again, there's never any guarantee, but there are agreements between community colleges here in California, and UCs and Cal State's right Cal State the state university program here that give students from these community colleges, as long as they accomplish
a certain GPA, and as long as they take the right set of classes. Okay.
Those students are going to get additional consideration right so your path to some of these UCs become a little bit easier.
Let's say, if you didn't get around, get in the first time around. Okay.
Now, as I've said from the very beginning right.
I highly recommend that you just go to a four year college, but I also understand that some students for whatever reason, don't want to, even though they apply for it they just really don't feel like it's a good fit and they don't want to go to one of the ones that
they're accepted into.
And they have their eye on one of these state schools these these public universities.
And, like I said in California anyways, you know that there are unique opportunities to get in through the transfer portal.
Okay, and you're top notch students so you know you're going to do well like you're prepared for college right if you take these community college classes, you're probably going to get like straight A's and all the honors classes
are dedicated enough you're going to do the work, you're going to take it seriously. Okay.
If you're in that position. Okay. Then the community college might be a good opportunity for you.
Now you will miss out on the first two years of connecting with students that are entering straight from high school.
But there's a separate community which is a community of transfer students that also have their own little niche community.
And that's different because there's a difference between, you know, first years going into college that get to live together in residence halls and, you know, develop these deeper relationships versus transfer students who may be lived off on their own and then now enter
as a transfer student and they're just in and out right they're just in classes they do stuff and then they leave.
It's harder to make these connections. If you're not all kind of first years living in the same space right so there's a lot of reasons that you lose out on certain experiences but some students actually just don't care about that at all.
They just don't care. It's not a big deal for them right and some students are like this right where they already have their social network they're happy with.
They don't feel a need to go out and meet new people. They're not interested they are maybe they are very social. And so there's no worries right because even as a transfer student, they're going to put themselves out there they're going to attend
various events they're going to connect with people regardless. They're just very good at it. And, you know, those students also are the kind of students who develop some of these connections while at community colleges as well, because it's not as if, you know, people at community colleges don't have these social networks to help them out as well.
Okay, so here's another group of students where it might be worth considering.
Okay, so what is my point here? My point is the following, okay.
A lot of people tend to think of community colleges as the place you go if you couldn't get into any college at all.
Okay, and there might be a group of people that are like that but I think it's going to be a mistake to reduce community colleges down to nothing more than here's a place where everybody gets into, and it's not a high quality.
That is, that has never been the case with community colleges. Okay, community colleges, I know for a fact in California anyways, that we have a special agreement with UCs and Cal states that force us to make sure that the classes are of equal quality, equivalent to the classes that are offered those introductory classes that are offered at the four year colleges.
Right. And the professors are held to it, right, it's actually part of the class articulation agreement right there's there's a whole.
This is just too much nitty gritty but you know there's a whole set of like rules essentially the faculty have to follow about the amount of reading or writing, or the intensity or the expectations that are being set.
And they're expected to follow it and in fact there's review processes to ensure that the students are being held to these standards. And that's the reason that UCs give community colleges, these sorts of consideration, especially if they're offering enough classes of the same quality
right they could trust, in other sense, they could trust the grades. Right, whereas high schools they can't trust necessarily what the GPAs mean because there might be great inflation going on at the particular school, or you know something else going on that where the GPA doesn't match the
students abilities, or what they've learned. Okay, at community colleges, there's gonna be less of that because of these agreements that are in place.
Okay, which means that community colleges are essentially, or should be ideally, a way to do the things that you would do in the first two years of a four year college.
Right. It's your opportunity to finish up all your generation, general education requirements. It's an opportunity for you to figure out what topic interests you.
It's a, you know, first, a lot of students go into a four year institution not knowing what they want to do with their life, right. Well, community college students, when they've transferred over to a four year college, they're expected to already know because
those two years, or more, at a community college that you spent, you should have been figuring out what you want to do. You should have a clear sense of direction and a goal for where you want to go. You should not be dilly dallying as a transfer student.
In those two years at a community college, when you're taking all these range of classes, your general education classes, you should be figuring out, hey, this is what I want to major in. This is what I want to do in my career.
Those are things that you can figure out at the community college. Right.
Okay.
And lastly, I do want to stress, right, that, look, if you think about the expectations of faculty at the different types of colleges, right, so if you're thinking about a research heavy college like, you know, UCs and these other like nationally ranked universities, as opposed to the state universities, which tend to be a good blend of some research but some teaching, versus community colleges where it's just all teaching, right.
Teaching is just the focus. That's all it is.
You'll see that the instructors are going to differ in the quality of the teaching, you're going to get less of a mixed bag in the quality of teaching, in part because community colleges are screening specifically for instructors that teach well, not ones that do research well but the ones that teach well.
Okay. And again teaching is a very special unique set of skills. And so, what you'll experience, right, is that the teaching at a community colleges, at a community college will often be as good if not better than some of the other four year institutions.
It's not an accident, it is actually by design, in part because that's what, you know, the instructors are expected to do, that's what they're expected to be good at, that's what they're hired for, right, is their teaching. So you might actually enjoy a lot of the classes at community colleges far more than you might at a four year institution.
So, all this is to say, right, put some respect on community colleges, and really if it makes sense for you, right, forget what anyone else says, do what's right for you.
Okay. And what you'll find is that yes, community colleges, because we don't have a screening process, you're going to get a wider, you know, variation in the quality of students and what they're prepared for, but that doesn't impact the quality of the teaching, and it does not impact the expectations that are set.
Okay. And moreover, what you, how you perform at the community colleges should be a good indicator to you of whether or not you could handle college level work. And it'll be a great opportunity to show what you're capable of.
It's like a, almost like a, for many students, it's almost like a second opportunity, right. High school didn't work out so well, or at least in the way that you wanted it to, well, this would be your second opportunity, right.
Make the most of it, and it could take you very, very far, because at the end of the day, when you transfer to a four-year college, and you get your bachelor's degree from whatever four-year college you went to, okay, and you're applying for jobs, they're not going to care whether or not you went to community college or not.
What they're going to care about is that you got that four-year degree. That's what matters. Okay.
So, I hope that is at least some helpful guideline for those of you who are considering community colleges. Like I said, with all things community college, there's a lot of variation from state to state.
There's some differences in quality, in size, in opportunities, in services, depending on the community college you attend. So, with that in mind, please make sure to do your due diligence, even in selecting a community college, right.
Just go to a random community college that's closest to you, okay. If distance is an issue because of your life circumstances and you can't, you have to be in one area, you try to make the most of it, right.
But if you do have some options, and this is the case for some students where there's like several community colleges that are within, you know, close proximity, okay.
Do your due diligence, find out what these different community colleges offer, find out what's a good fit for you, just like you would with applying to a four-year college, okay.
Because again, it varies. They're not all created equal, okay.
So, good luck to all of you, and I hope that I hear from people who are in the know about these community colleges elsewhere in other states.