WEBVTT 00:00:02.820 --> 00:00:06.660 Welcome to the kingdom family podcast where we 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:09.640 rediscover our identity as sons and daughters 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:13.080 of Yahweh and learn to live the life of the kingdom. 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:17.100 Let's jump in to today's episode. All right guys, 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:20.519 week seven of rethinking hell. We are diving 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:23.980 in this week to the question of where did our 00:00:23.980 --> 00:00:28.679 modern view of hell come from? Just where did 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:31.629 it come from? Because I think many people would 00:00:31.629 --> 00:00:35.990 assume, as I did, that our view of hell came 00:00:35.990 --> 00:00:39.710 directly from the Bible. But history would tell 00:00:39.710 --> 00:00:42.710 us that that is much, much more complicated. 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:48.549 So the goal of this is, again, not to attack 00:00:48.549 --> 00:00:52.950 tradition, but it is to invite people to ask, 00:00:53.549 --> 00:00:58.179 how did we get here? Um, it's to cause us to 00:00:58.179 --> 00:01:01.039 learn how to pump the brakes and learn to ask 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:05.340 questions and not just do what I feel like sometimes 00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:07.920 we in the church is really good at. And I would 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:13.480 include myself in that statement, at least in 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.519 previous seasons to not just regurgitate information. 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:23.560 So let's start with this. If Moses believed in 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:27.469 eternal conscience torment. Where did he teach 00:01:27.469 --> 00:01:37.750 it? Because Moses taught no such thing. In Moses' 00:01:39.010 --> 00:01:41.590 era there, they would have had the word sheol, 00:01:41.769 --> 00:01:44.109 which is simply the grave and the rim of the 00:01:44.109 --> 00:01:48.609 dead. You think about what David says in the 00:01:48.609 --> 00:01:53.390 Psalms, if I make my bed in sheol in hell, you're 00:01:53.390 --> 00:01:56.180 there with me. but yet we have been conditioned 00:01:56.180 --> 00:01:59.980 to believe that hell is separation from God. 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:04.060 Okay, so we can't, if we're supposed to take 00:02:04.060 --> 00:02:09.120 stuff literally, then when you read David's verse 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:12.219 there, that if I make my bed in hell, then you're 00:02:12.219 --> 00:02:14.580 there. If I'm supposed to read it literally, 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:18.240 then that falls apart because God is literally 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:22.229 there with David making his bed in Sheol. Even 00:02:22.229 --> 00:02:26.270 if it's figuratively, I mean it that again You 00:02:26.270 --> 00:02:30.550 just have to learn to pump the brakes Stop checking 00:02:30.550 --> 00:02:34.550 your brain at the door and learn to ask legitimate 00:02:34.550 --> 00:02:39.990 questions wrestle with the scripture invite the 00:02:39.990 --> 00:02:43.830 Holy Spirit into your time of reading and Allow 00:02:43.830 --> 00:02:49.150 the word to translate a word to you Now is that 00:02:49.150 --> 00:02:53.150 always an instant moment? No. Sometimes you need 00:02:53.150 --> 00:02:57.669 to sit and chew on it. But take these questions 00:02:57.669 --> 00:03:00.509 and these moments to the Holy Spirit and learn 00:03:00.509 --> 00:03:03.610 how to wrestle with these thoughts. So again, 00:03:03.610 --> 00:03:05.830 we have Sheol the grave or the rim of the dead. 00:03:06.689 --> 00:03:10.569 There is no eternal torture language. You have 00:03:10.569 --> 00:03:13.469 in the Old Testament, the righteous and the wicked 00:03:13.469 --> 00:03:18.289 both going to Sheol. And hope is resurrection. 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:24.599 Not escape from hell Okay, then let us consider 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:28.879 Jesus He never explained hell as if his audience 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:33.620 had never heard of it instead he speaks of Gehenna 00:03:33.620 --> 00:03:36.699 and He speaks of Hades. He talks about things 00:03:36.699 --> 00:03:41.060 like outer darkness furnace weeping and gnashing 00:03:41.060 --> 00:03:45.780 so let's look at some of this if you look at 00:03:47.530 --> 00:03:53.590 If you look at outer darkness, the Greek wording 00:03:53.590 --> 00:03:57.650 there would mean... I'm trying to break this 00:03:57.650 --> 00:04:02.150 down. So the word there for darkness would actually 00:04:02.150 --> 00:04:04.650 mean darkness or obscurity. It can be literal 00:04:04.650 --> 00:04:07.389 darkness, but in the New Testament, darkness 00:04:07.389 --> 00:04:10.689 many times is a metaphor for spiritual blindness, 00:04:11.930 --> 00:04:16.629 for ignorance, and life opposed to divine light. 00:04:17.230 --> 00:04:21.050 Thayer specifically recognizes this metaphorical 00:04:21.050 --> 00:04:24.089 usage elsewhere as ignorance concerning divine 00:04:24.089 --> 00:04:28.910 things and its resulting condition. The word 00:04:28.910 --> 00:04:32.370 for outer and outer darkness is outer outside 00:04:32.370 --> 00:04:36.449 exterior. Thayer again gives us a helpful explanation 00:04:36.449 --> 00:04:40.389 of Jesus's phrase, the darkness outside the limits 00:04:40.389 --> 00:04:43.730 of the lighted palace. So if you will with me, 00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:47.110 picture a first century wedding feast that's 00:04:47.110 --> 00:04:52.029 done at night. Inside the house or banquet hall 00:04:52.029 --> 00:04:56.490 are lamps, food, celebration, fellowship, joy, 00:04:56.649 --> 00:04:58.889 all these different things that you would expect 00:04:58.889 --> 00:05:03.790 at a wedding feast or wedding ceremony. But if 00:05:03.790 --> 00:05:06.310 all this is going on inside, what is happening 00:05:06.310 --> 00:05:11.600 outside? Darkness. So when Jesus says someone 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.639 is thrown into the outer darkness his audience 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.319 is not picturing some kind of underground torture 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:23.199 chamber filled with flames They picture being 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:27.519 outside the celebration while others are inside 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.139 In Matthew chapter 8 makes this especially clear 00:05:32.139 --> 00:05:35.939 because Jesus says Gentiles will come from East 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:39.720 and West and sit at the table with Abraham, Isaac, 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:42.639 and Jacob, while some of the presumed sons of 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:47.100 the kingdom found themselves outside. Again, 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:52.120 Jesus is simply flipping things back right. Let's 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:57.199 look at Matthew chapter eight. Verses 11 and 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.300 12 and it says this let me tell you this Lots 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:02.680 of people will come from east and west and join 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.259 the great party of celebration with Abraham Isaac 00:06:05.259 --> 00:06:08.459 and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven But the children 00:06:08.459 --> 00:06:10.779 of the kingdom will be thrown into our outer 00:06:10.779 --> 00:06:13.920 darkness where people will weep and gnash their 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:18.100 teeth Okay. Now we have this weeping and gnashing 00:06:18.100 --> 00:06:21.980 of teeth moment Let me go back and look the people 00:06:21.980 --> 00:06:24.300 who assumed that were Abraham's descendants. 00:06:24.540 --> 00:06:31.699 Therefore We're not automatically in. OK, so. 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.860 It's important for us to understand. That participation 00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:44.220 in God's kingdom is not determined by some sort 00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:48.620 of ethnic privilege. All right, then we have 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:51.240 the weeping and ashing of teeth, the word for 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.839 weeping there. It is the anguish of realization, 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:58.500 loss, and regret. And notice something important. 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:01.839 Weeping describes the response to judgment. It 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.120 doesn't tell us the duration or the ultimate 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:08.439 purpose of the judgment. Remember, judgment is 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.959 never aimed at you and I. Remember that. And 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.519 if you take the gnashing of teeth phrase, the 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:19.600 wording there means biting, grinding, or gnashing 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:23.170 the teeth. And here's the problem. We have been 00:07:23.170 --> 00:07:26.949 conditioned to believe that they are in so much 00:07:26.949 --> 00:07:29.810 physical pain that they are grinding their teeth, 00:07:30.129 --> 00:07:33.709 which, you know, OK, maybe that's possible. I 00:07:33.709 --> 00:07:37.370 won't discount that. But biblically, gnashing 00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:41.610 teeth can also communicate anger. It can communicate 00:07:41.610 --> 00:07:45.230 hostility. It can communicate frustration or 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:49.019 rage. Let's look at Matthew not Matthew. Let's 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:52.379 look at Acts chapter 7 verse 54 When Stephen 00:07:52.379 --> 00:07:55.620 said what Stephen said was a blow right to the 00:07:55.620 --> 00:08:00.060 heart when they heard it They gnashed their teeth 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:04.379 against him My friend these people are not burning 00:08:04.379 --> 00:08:08.819 in flames They are simply angry. So weeping and 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:11.759 gnashing of teeth creates a powerful emotional 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.410 picture that you have grief plus anger plus bitter 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:21.930 realization plus resistance some mourn what they've 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:25.889 lost some rage against what has been exposed 00:08:25.889 --> 00:08:31.089 and that actually fits judgment that we discussed 00:08:31.089 --> 00:08:37.629 um previously because something has been revealed 00:08:37.629 --> 00:08:43.129 and the revelation produces a response think 00:08:43.129 --> 00:08:47.309 about what i'm saying Light comes to expose darkness, 00:08:48.289 --> 00:08:51.190 and when darkness gets exposed, when that ignorance 00:08:51.190 --> 00:08:55.570 of divine things, I like that version of how 00:08:55.570 --> 00:08:58.149 Thayer puts that, when that ignorance of divine 00:08:58.149 --> 00:09:03.889 things is exposed, it produces a response. And 00:09:03.889 --> 00:09:06.409 some will mourn what they've lost, some will 00:09:06.409 --> 00:09:11.129 rage against what's being exposed. Some will 00:09:11.129 --> 00:09:14.000 welcome that exposure and say, okay, Do what 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:19.779 you need to do. See, we get the opportunity to 00:09:19.779 --> 00:09:25.379 choose how we want to respond when it's exposed. 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:36.100 Think about that. The next thing we'll look at 00:09:36.100 --> 00:09:39.580 is a furnace of fire. Because a furnace does 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:42.240 not automatically mean eternal torture either. 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:45.240 Furnaces in scripture can be associated with 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:47.860 destruction, but they can also be associated 00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:51.580 with testing, with refining and purification. 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:54.899 The question I would challenge you to ask is 00:09:54.899 --> 00:10:00.320 which one sounds more Christlike? We can look 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.879 at Matthew chapter 13. Jesus is interpreting 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:08.539 the parable of the weeds. You have the wheat 00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:11.100 and the weeds and it's equal separation and weeds 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:14.379 burn my question Do you see the weeds as people 00:10:14.379 --> 00:10:18.320 or do you think more personal reflection? What 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:23.220 do you see the weeds being? Do you see the weeds 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:26.899 as people or more personal reflection like maybe 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:29.620 there's some weeds in me that's growing with 00:10:29.620 --> 00:10:33.649 the wheat in me And instead of God plugging it 00:10:33.649 --> 00:10:35.870 all out, He allows them to grow together until 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:41.210 the right time to remove the weed. So again, 00:10:41.690 --> 00:10:45.269 this is my twist here. What is He separating? 00:10:46.230 --> 00:10:51.669 What is happening? Is He separating people? Or 00:10:51.669 --> 00:10:54.710 can you apply this to your life personally and 00:10:54.710 --> 00:10:57.230 realize that He's coming to do something within 00:10:57.230 --> 00:11:02.419 you? That he's coming to root out that ignorance 00:11:02.419 --> 00:11:05.440 concerning divine things and leading you more 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.679 into the mind of Christ that you and I have been 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:11.700 given Again just something for us to wrestle 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:16.159 with Then we have we do have Greek influence 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:21.899 when it comes to the topic of hell Because Jewish 00:11:21.899 --> 00:11:25.440 thought encountered Greek philosophy after Alexander 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.620 the Great and I've got to stick to my notes here 00:11:27.620 --> 00:11:30.070 because A lot of this was more historical and 00:11:30.070 --> 00:11:34.070 not my strong point. But we have things like 00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:37.769 Plato's immortal soul. We have the Greek underworld 00:11:37.769 --> 00:11:41.769 concepts. We have Hades in Greek mythology versus 00:11:41.769 --> 00:11:45.929 Hades in the New Testament. This isn't saying 00:11:45.929 --> 00:11:50.230 that scripture adopted Greek mythology. It just 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:54.210 shows the cultural world into which the New Testament 00:11:54.210 --> 00:11:57.740 was being written. And so this is important for 00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:00.940 us to understand. The New Testament was written 00:12:00.940 --> 00:12:04.759 in a world where Jewish and Greek ideas had been 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:09.980 interacting for literally centuries. So now let 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:12.399 me pause. Does this mean that biblical writers 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.279 were copying Greek beliefs? No, it does not mean 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:20.580 that, but it does mean words such as Hades came 00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:26.620 with a cultural baggage as well. Consider something 00:12:26.620 --> 00:12:29.559 that happened roughly 300 years before Jesus 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:34.379 in the 330s BC Alexander the Great conquered 00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:38.519 an enormous portion of the ancient world And 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:42.879 he did not just conquer territory Greek language 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:47.019 education philosophy literature and culture spread 00:12:47.019 --> 00:12:50.730 with his empire This process that I'm talking 00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:52.929 about is a thing called Hellenization, and it's 00:12:52.929 --> 00:12:56.110 simply a historical process where non -Greek 00:12:56.110 --> 00:12:58.929 people adopted the language, culture, religion, 00:12:59.149 --> 00:13:03.389 and customs of ancient Greece. So by the time 00:13:03.389 --> 00:13:07.370 Jesus is born, Jewish people had spent generations 00:13:07.370 --> 00:13:11.289 living in a world heavily influenced by Greek 00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:16.039 culture. Think about even today culture Culture 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.620 influences the questions we ask the words we 00:13:18.620 --> 00:13:21.279 use what those words mean and in their times 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.340 regarding this study The the categories they 00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:30.279 used to understand life and death And you know 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:34.120 just a perfect example I am 36 years old we have 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.720 in our Ministry there we have 14 15 year old 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:41.860 kids things that words that I could have used 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:46.940 at when I was their age 20 years ago does not 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:51.440 mean the same as it does to them. It's a different 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:56.000 definition because of culture. And the same applies 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.059 to older generations of me. They could have used 00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:02.779 words in their time that if you say those words 00:14:02.779 --> 00:14:07.740 now, it did not mean the same thing. I hope that 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:13.490 makes sense. So Hebrew This is one that I will 00:14:13.490 --> 00:14:15.549 have to wrestle with a little bit more just because 00:14:15.549 --> 00:14:20.610 of how I've been taught but Hebrew Scriptures 00:14:20.610 --> 00:14:23.429 typically would present human beings as a whole 00:14:23.429 --> 00:14:27.149 person and Genesis 2 7 does not say God put an 00:14:27.149 --> 00:14:29.710 immortal soul inside a temporary body It says 00:14:29.710 --> 00:14:32.629 God formed Adam from the dust breathe into him 00:14:32.629 --> 00:14:36.049 the breath of life and Adam becoming a living 00:14:36.049 --> 00:14:39.570 being So the biblical hope therefore developed 00:14:39.570 --> 00:14:43.769 strongly around resurrection, that God is restoring 00:14:43.769 --> 00:14:48.629 the person and ultimately creation. In Greek 00:14:48.629 --> 00:14:53.090 philosophical traditions, they could approach 00:14:53.090 --> 00:14:56.389 the human person much differently. Plato, for 00:14:56.389 --> 00:14:59.029 example, lives centuries before Jesus, and in 00:14:59.029 --> 00:15:01.210 his thought, there is a much stronger distinction 00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:04.470 between body and soul. This is what I would have 00:15:04.470 --> 00:15:07.779 grown up believing. That the soul can exist apart 00:15:07.779 --> 00:15:09.840 from the body and death can be understood as 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.840 the soul being separated from bodily existence 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:19.279 Because the the idea that I grew up with is the 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:24.320 real you is your is your Spirit or soul your 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.200 body dies, but your immortal soul lives leaves 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.740 your body and then goes somewhere else again 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:33.659 That can sound automatically Christian Until 00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:36.100 you start wrestling the question what did Christ 00:15:36.100 --> 00:15:40.539 come to redeem and restore? That he's the son 00:15:40.539 --> 00:15:44.600 of man and we're sitting in the heavenly realm 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:50.179 as the son of man in the heavenly realm Again, 00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:53.120 I'm just wrestling some of this with you this 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:57.080 this challenged me as I was Studying and making 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.759 notes for this but just because I am wrestling 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.240 with it does not mean That I'm not going to put 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.519 it in here to to not share it. I'm just I'm just 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:09.539 going to challenge you to do your own wrestling 00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:15.100 with it. Because scripture would teach resurrection. 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:24.159 OK. And resurrection would affect more than just 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:27.659 your soul. Resurrection affects your body, too. 00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:32.039 OK, when Jesus resurrected. Was it just his soul 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.100 and spirit that got up or did his physical body? 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:39.059 Actually get up and walk out of that grave three 00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:45.759 days later Just again Something to wrestle with 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.259 I don't I don't know that I can confidently say 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:52.980 That the soul is separate from the body and all 00:16:52.980 --> 00:16:57.740 that now. I think it's all in one and I think 00:16:57.740 --> 00:17:02.840 Christ Redeemed every aspect of it. That is that 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.400 is the gospel that he redeemed body soul and 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:11.400 spirit Anyhow moving on from that point that's 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.319 not what we're talking about tonight Just to 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.640 give you a different thought and something to 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:24.619 chew on Then we have We also have the Greek underworld 00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:27.779 thoughts Greek mythology had an elaborate understanding 00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:31.660 of the realm of the dead or Hades the as I went 00:17:31.660 --> 00:17:35.599 out every time I talk about this The first cartoon 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:40.000 that comes to mind is the Disney movie Hercules 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.900 Greek stories develop descriptions of the dead 00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:46.960 judgment rewards and punishments rivers regions 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.809 of the underworld and figures such as Hades. 00:17:51.349 --> 00:17:53.589 Now here's where things get really important 00:17:53.589 --> 00:17:56.650 when we're reading our Bibles. The Old Testament 00:17:56.650 --> 00:17:59.589 had a different word, shio, and we've already 00:17:59.589 --> 00:18:02.809 learned this. It isn't identical to the later 00:18:02.809 --> 00:18:06.089 popular Christian picture of hell, a place where 00:18:06.089 --> 00:18:08.690 wicked souls are consciously tortured forever. 00:18:10.069 --> 00:18:12.549 Jewish scholars translated the Hebrew scriptures 00:18:12.549 --> 00:18:16.390 into Greek, and in the centuries before Jesus, 00:18:16.670 --> 00:18:19.630 this translation became known as the Septuagint. 00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:26.490 When they encountered Sheol, they frequently 00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:30.890 translated it with the Greek word Hades. So when 00:18:30.890 --> 00:18:33.849 you see Hades in the New Testament, don't automatically 00:18:33.849 --> 00:18:37.869 picture Greek mythology textbook. And don't automatically 00:18:37.869 --> 00:18:42.559 picture medieval paintings of hell. The New Testament 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:46.000 writers are using a Greek word within a Jewish 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.960 scriptural world. Same word doesn't necessarily 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:54.579 mean same worldview. Hear me what I said. The 00:18:54.579 --> 00:18:59.900 same word, Hades and Hades, doesn't necessarily 00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:05.339 mean the same worldview. Imagine missionaries 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:07.640 went somewhere where the closest local word for 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.819 God was already associated with ideas from that 00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:14.940 culture. They might use the existing word while 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:18.960 redefining it through the story that they are 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:24.660 telling. This kind of helps explain why the first 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.299 century world gets complicated between the Old 00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:31.519 and New Testament Jewish thought was not frozen 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.130 in time. Jewish communities encountered Greek 00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:38.730 philosophy and culture. Different Jewish groups 00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:41.109 developed different understandings of resurrection, 00:19:41.589 --> 00:19:44.490 the afterlife, angels, judgment, and the age 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:48.769 to come. And that's actually visible inside the 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:53.589 New Testament in Acts 23 and 8. It says the Sadducees 00:19:53.589 --> 00:19:57.049 say there is no resurrection, nor angel, nor 00:19:57.049 --> 00:19:59.549 spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. 00:20:00.910 --> 00:20:04.390 Both of them are Jewish groups. and they don't 00:20:04.390 --> 00:20:07.230 even agree on something like the afterlife. Sounds 00:20:07.230 --> 00:20:12.609 like 2026 church world. But by Jesus's day, you 00:20:12.609 --> 00:20:15.329 have Hebrew scripture, you have centuries of 00:20:15.329 --> 00:20:18.230 Jewish interpretation, you have a Persian period 00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:20.690 influences, you have Greek language and culture, 00:20:20.849 --> 00:20:24.430 you have Roman political power, all forming the 00:20:24.430 --> 00:20:28.470 world in which the New Testament appears. And 00:20:28.470 --> 00:20:31.130 when the New Testament writers used Greek words, 00:20:31.410 --> 00:20:34.309 their original audiences lived in a world where 00:20:34.309 --> 00:20:37.150 those words already would have carried different 00:20:37.150 --> 00:20:42.890 associations. That's why it's fascinating to 00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:46.630 think about the wording that Jesus would use 00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:48.930 many times because the wordings that he chose, 00:20:48.990 --> 00:20:52.569 he did not use religious language. And I don't 00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:54.609 have time to get into that, but just something 00:20:54.609 --> 00:20:59.400 to make you and I think. Our job is to determine 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.900 what Jesus and the biblical writers meant by 00:21:02.900 --> 00:21:06.500 those words, rather than automatically importing 00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:11.000 either Greek mythology or our modern definition 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.519 of hell into them. So if I read the English word 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.240 hell and I immediately imagine eternal fiery 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.920 punishment, I may have imported an idea into 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.099 the passage that wasn't contained in the original 00:21:24.099 --> 00:21:30.240 word. Because Hades does not mean eternal conscience 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.799 torment remember We read last week revelation 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:40.940 20 verse 14 that said death and Hades themselves 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:48.559 are thrown into the lake of fire Again just something 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:53.480 for us to think about So whatever we conclude 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.519 about the lake of fire that alone should make 00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:00.180 us cautious about simply equating Hades With 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:03.900 the final state of hell, so with anything in 00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:08.299 scripture my challenge to you Would be to work 00:22:08.299 --> 00:22:11.660 backwards don't begin with the English word and 00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:16.099 give it that definition Learn to work backwards 00:22:16.099 --> 00:22:20.200 So like what Greek word is underneath it? How 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:22.960 was the word used in scripture? What Hebrew concept 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:29.279 stands behind it? What did it mean in its first 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.299 century world? And from there, then begin to 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:38.619 build your theology. Now, it's also fascinating 00:22:38.619 --> 00:22:41.420 because many people would assume the earliest 00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:44.880 Christians also believed the same thing. Again, 00:22:45.619 --> 00:22:48.039 growing up, I did not think about early church 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.099 fathers, quote unquote. And I would have never 00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:53.039 thought about early church fathers until the 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:58.339 last couple of years really. But instead, there 00:22:58.339 --> 00:23:02.880 were several different streams. You have those 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.019 that did believe in eternal conscience torment. 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:08.359 You have those who believed in conditional immortality. 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.960 And you have those that believed in ultimate 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.740 restoration. You've got people like Ignatius 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.640 of Antioch. who lived in 35 to 107. You have 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:23.619 Irenaeus from 130 to 202. Clement of Alexandria 00:23:23.619 --> 00:23:29.359 150 to 215. Origen who lived from 185 to 253 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.839 -254 range. Gregory of Nicaea who lived from 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.759 335 to 395. Augustine of Hippo who lived from 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:44.519 354 to 430. And all six of them I just mentioned 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.730 had different beliefs. Now the two earlier ones, 00:23:49.089 --> 00:23:52.609 they believed in conditional immortality. Clement 00:23:52.609 --> 00:23:56.589 of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory of Nicaea. They 00:23:56.589 --> 00:23:59.390 believed in ultimate restoration. And then Augustine 00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:01.990 of Hippo would have believed in the eternal conscience 00:24:01.990 --> 00:24:07.190 torment from year 354. So there was not agreement 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:10.789 with this. So we have Augustine who embraced 00:24:10.789 --> 00:24:13.710 the immortality of the soul. He would have argued 00:24:13.710 --> 00:24:16.920 strongly for eternal punishment. and he became 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.480 one of the dominant theological voice in the 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.920 Latin West. From there, his influence spread 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:30.680 through medieval Christianity. We have, I'm not 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:32.779 going to go too much into this. You can go and 00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:35.000 study this for yourself. We have a guy named 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:42.240 Dante who lived around 1265 to 1321. And so if 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.019 you think about Demons with pitchforks and Satan 00:24:45.019 --> 00:24:47.240 ruling kale and all that and maybe think where 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.599 did that come from? most of that imagery comes 00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:55.920 from a divine comedy called the Inferno Which 00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:01.180 is not from scripture It was an Italian poet 00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:04.859 who? He wrote the Divine Comedy. What's a long 00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:07.660 narrative poem divided into three parts Inferno, 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:13.779 which was held purgatory in heaven That and but 00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:19.200 again, he's not writing Dante was not writing 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.839 another book of the Bible. He was writing medieval 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:27.940 Christian poetry So just again something for 00:25:27.940 --> 00:25:30.240 us to wrestle with and think about where do we 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.380 get these ideas from Dante had a lot of influence 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.819 in the church world and I don't think he meant 00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:41.160 to do that Then you have people like, if you 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.420 think about modern evangelicalism, you have Jonathan 00:25:44.420 --> 00:25:47.619 Edwards and Charles Finney. Their preaching was 00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:52.000 not necessarily wrong in every aspect, but it 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.920 shaped how many Christians came to think of salvation 00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:59.839 primarily as escaping hell. Charles Finney said, 00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:03.539 sinners do not see while God threatens sin was 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:06.190 such a terrible punishment. They love it so well 00:26:06.190 --> 00:26:08.890 themselves that they cannot see why God should 00:26:08.890 --> 00:26:12.250 look at it in such a light as to think it worthy 00:26:12.250 --> 00:26:16.109 of everlasting punishment. Let me read that again. 00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:19.089 Sinners do not see while God threatens sin with 00:26:19.089 --> 00:26:22.029 such terrible punishment. They love it so well 00:26:22.029 --> 00:26:24.250 themselves that they cannot see why God should 00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:27.069 look at it in such a light as to think it worthy 00:26:27.069 --> 00:26:31.950 of everlasting punishment. Now, where Finney 00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:35.529 and I would agree He rejected the Augustinian 00:26:35.529 --> 00:26:39.789 idea that human beings are born sinful. He said, 00:26:39.809 --> 00:26:42.450 if God creates something inherently sinful so 00:26:42.450 --> 00:26:45.589 that sin is unavoidable and then punishes that 00:26:45.589 --> 00:26:48.170 person eternally for doing what their nature 00:26:48.170 --> 00:26:52.769 compelled them to do, that would be unjust. And 00:26:52.769 --> 00:26:58.210 that I would have to agree with Phineon. Phiney 00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:01.119 believed, though, that humanity isn't born morally 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.180 guilty or depraved. The people freely choose 00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:07.660 selfishness or sin. Therefore, they are genuinely 00:27:07.660 --> 00:27:11.759 morally responsible. Christ's atonement makes 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.480 forgiveness possible. Those who repent and believe 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.039 receive pardon. Those who persist in rebellion 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.839 remain under God's governmental penalty. That 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:24.819 penalty is endless conscience misery. He taught 00:27:24.819 --> 00:27:27.079 that the wages of sin are not merely physical 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:30.450 death or even spiritual death, but eternal He 00:27:30.450 --> 00:27:33.690 greatly believed hell was eternal conscience 00:27:33.690 --> 00:27:39.670 torment. Jonathan Edwards, for example, preached 00:27:39.670 --> 00:27:42.450 in America's first great awakening. This had 00:27:42.450 --> 00:27:47.809 been 1730s to 40s. And this is an excerpt from 00:27:47.809 --> 00:27:50.589 his sermon, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry 00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:55.660 God. The God that holds you over the pit of hell, 00:27:56.059 --> 00:27:59.339 much as one holds a spider or some loathsome 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:03.339 insect over the fire, abhors you and is dreadfully 00:28:03.339 --> 00:28:06.859 provoked. His wrath towards you burns like fire. 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:10.220 He looks upon you as worthy of nothing else but 00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:13.819 to be cast in the fire. He is of purer eyes than 00:28:13.819 --> 00:28:16.980 to bear to have you in his sight. You are ten 00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:20.599 thousand times more abominable in his eyes than 00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:25.029 the most hateful, venomous serpent is in ours. 00:28:26.609 --> 00:28:31.690 This idea stemmed from John Calvin because Calvin 00:28:31.690 --> 00:28:35.930 divides faith, describes its properties and divides 00:28:35.930 --> 00:28:38.589 the human race into the elect, which are the 00:28:38.589 --> 00:28:42.089 chosen ones and the reprobate, the damned. The 00:28:42.089 --> 00:28:44.049 elect are known by their certain assurance of 00:28:44.049 --> 00:28:46.609 salvation, which is the principle hinge on which 00:28:46.609 --> 00:28:49.920 faith turns. Without the surety of confidence 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.000 in one's own salvation, one is not a true believer 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.559 and has no place among the elect. The damned, 00:28:56.740 --> 00:28:59.519 however, never go so far as to penetrate that 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.460 secret revelation which the scripture confines 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:08.740 to the elect. They are completely unable to apprehend 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:11.680 the immutable will of God or embrace his truth 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:17.799 with constancy. So our modern imagination of 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:22.400 hell is the result of scripture It's the result 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.259 of Jewish imagery the Greek philosophical influences 00:29:27.259 --> 00:29:33.660 church Excuse me church tradition medieval literature 00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:38.079 and revival preaching all combined and really 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.240 regurgitated many times over and over Again, 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:46.210 my goal is not to dismiss history But to carefully 00:29:46.210 --> 00:29:49.849 distinguish each layer so that we can return 00:29:49.849 --> 00:29:53.529 to the biblical text with fresh eyes and may 00:29:53.529 --> 00:29:57.609 I say this with a Christological lens and learning 00:29:57.609 --> 00:30:03.809 how to see things different So again three views 00:30:03.809 --> 00:30:08.190 were there In if you look at the early church 00:30:08.190 --> 00:30:10.930 you do have eternal conscience torment there 00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:13.869 But they also have something called conditional 00:30:13.869 --> 00:30:18.049 and more spirituality and ultimate restoration 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:24.569 Let me see if I can maybe help Break those down 00:30:24.569 --> 00:30:29.890 just a little bit for us Let me pull that there 00:30:29.890 --> 00:30:34.250 we go So if you look at eternal torment the wicked 00:30:34.250 --> 00:30:38.849 suffer forever and conscience torment Its punishment 00:30:38.849 --> 00:30:41.769 is endless and unending evil continues to exist 00:30:41.769 --> 00:30:46.190 eternally separate from God then you have conditional 00:30:46.190 --> 00:30:48.869 immortality which is immortality is a gift from 00:30:48.869 --> 00:30:52.509 God not something everyone receives the wicked 00:30:52.509 --> 00:30:54.890 ultimately perish they are destroyed not tortured 00:30:54.890 --> 00:30:59.769 forever excuse me the wicked ultimately perish 00:30:59.769 --> 00:31:05.230 they are not destroyed they are destroyed not 00:31:05.230 --> 00:31:09.769 tortured forever So that's the conditional immortality. 00:31:10.170 --> 00:31:12.450 It doesn't believe in eternal conscience torment. 00:31:12.569 --> 00:31:15.150 It just means they believe the wicked are just 00:31:15.150 --> 00:31:20.049 simply destroyed but not tortured endlessly. 00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:24.450 And then you have ultimate reconciliation which 00:31:24.450 --> 00:31:27.829 means God's love and grace will ultimately restore 00:31:27.829 --> 00:31:31.190 all things and every person. This belief would 00:31:31.190 --> 00:31:33.450 be God's love is stronger than sin and death. 00:31:33.569 --> 00:31:35.769 All will be healed, reconciled and restored. 00:31:36.230 --> 00:31:40.569 Judgment and fire purify and restore, not merely 00:31:40.569 --> 00:31:43.849 punish. So that would be kind of the three early 00:31:43.849 --> 00:31:46.529 views of what we have. And when we get to the 00:31:46.529 --> 00:31:50.089 end of this, I will share with you where I stand 00:31:50.089 --> 00:31:54.069 and what I believe and kind of give you that 00:31:54.069 --> 00:32:00.630 viewpoint. As far as that goes. But just an interesting 00:32:00.630 --> 00:32:02.589 closing point. I probably have mentioned this 00:32:02.589 --> 00:32:06.069 before, but just something for us to really think 00:32:06.069 --> 00:32:10.769 about is the church has no problem in believing 00:32:10.769 --> 00:32:13.789 that we're all included in the fall of Adam. 00:32:14.190 --> 00:32:17.849 Yet for some reason we wrestle with and try to 00:32:17.849 --> 00:32:22.829 give steps to be included in the finished work 00:32:22.829 --> 00:32:27.819 of Christ. That that to me is a problem. that 00:32:27.819 --> 00:32:32.559 we need to really think about and wrestle with 00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:38.420 that thought in my opinion um but that's that's 00:32:38.420 --> 00:32:41.480 just me you can believe what you would like to 00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:47.000 believe um so next week we will jump into kind 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:51.019 of what i believe um and that might take a couple 00:32:51.019 --> 00:32:55.400 of weeks to get through we'll see um Know I tried 00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:58.960 teaching that in our first Bible study a couple 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.000 weeks ago and may have gotten two slides into 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.099 my notes Granted Holy Spirit showed up in a different 00:33:06.099 --> 00:33:09.619 way. So we Learned to just walk flow with the 00:33:09.619 --> 00:33:11.420 Holy Spirit whatever Holy Spirit wants to do. 00:33:11.420 --> 00:33:15.579 That's what we do But until next week guys be 00:33:15.579 --> 00:33:18.779 blessed and guys learn how to release the kingdom 00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:24.660 life around you Be blessed Thanks for spending 00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:27.359 some time with me today on the Kingdom Family 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:31.180 Podcast. If this episode spoke to you, take a 00:33:31.180 --> 00:33:34.559 moment to share it and help someone else rediscover 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.740 their identity as a son or daughter of Yahweh. 00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:41.019 And don't forget, follow the podcast so you can 00:33:41.019 --> 00:33:43.720 stay connected with everything happening through 00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:47.319 Kingdom Family Ministries. Until next time, live 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:50.859 loved, live free, and live from the life of the 00:33:50.859 --> 00:33:51.140 Kingdom.