WEBVTT 00:00:07.010 --> 00:00:10.550 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.710 a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation 00:00:14.710 --> 00:00:17.149 Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker and I believe that 00:00:17.149 --> 00:00:19.449 the best way to communicate a message is by being 00:00:19.449 --> 00:00:21.410 passionate about what you are talking about. 00:00:22.149 --> 00:00:24.890 Thank you very much to Tudor Baker today for 00:00:24.890 --> 00:00:28.469 joining me. Tudor is Director of Greater Manchester 00:00:28.469 --> 00:00:31.800 Community Renewables Limited. It's a community 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:33.679 benefit society, and I know we're going to be 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.700 hearing a lot more about that, but it was set 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:38.460 up and run by volunteers to install community 00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:40.880 owned renewable energy across Greater Manchester. 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:44.659 Its job is to raise funds to install solar panels 00:00:44.659 --> 00:00:48.060 on schools and community buildings, helping them 00:00:48.060 --> 00:00:50.539 save money, reduce their carbon footprint and 00:00:50.539 --> 00:00:53.159 inspire children and the community to learn about 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.450 energy and climate change. So far, I believe, 00:00:56.549 --> 00:00:59.409 and I'm sure Tudor will correct me, the Greater 00:00:59.409 --> 00:01:01.990 Manchester Community Renewables has installed 00:01:01.990 --> 00:01:05.549 solar arrays on around eight primary schools, 00:01:05.870 --> 00:01:08.209 seven in Salford and one in Bury and a secondary 00:01:08.209 --> 00:01:11.209 school in Timperley and a community centre in 00:01:11.209 --> 00:01:13.810 Partington. The panels are held for the benefit 00:01:13.810 --> 00:01:17.810 of the community and any surpluses go back into 00:01:17.810 --> 00:01:20.629 the Greater Manchester Community Renewables Limited 00:01:20.629 --> 00:01:23.109 Community Fund. I'm trying to avoid acronyms. 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:27.159 to support local carbon reduction, energy efficiency, 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.519 and environmental education projects. So welcome 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:32.739 to Tudor. Hello, thanks for having me. Thank 00:01:32.739 --> 00:01:35.340 you. Let's start. Can you tell us a little bit 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:38.299 about your own journey and how you got to be 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:41.819 here? Absolutely, yeah. So my own journey personally 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:45.780 was learning about climate change during university. 00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:48.540 I studied climate change at Leeds University 00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:51.260 about 10 years ago. Feels like yesterday, but 00:01:51.260 --> 00:01:54.319 time flies, doesn't it? I graduated with a, and 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:56.879 learned about the issues with the way the world 00:01:56.879 --> 00:01:59.340 is going basically as we all have over the last 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:01.900 10, 15 years. And since moving to Manchester, 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:04.500 I've been sort of committed to try and make a 00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:06.319 difference, to try and make an impact and change 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.500 things the best I can in our environment. And 00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:12.000 one of the ways that I saw that I could really 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.379 make a difference was through getting involved 00:02:14.379 --> 00:02:16.620 with Greater Manchester Community Renewables. 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:19.050 And I think I shared that with the people who 00:02:19.050 --> 00:02:20.969 get involved is one of the key reasons we do 00:02:20.969 --> 00:02:23.409 that is because the impact on the Greater Manchester 00:02:23.409 --> 00:02:25.610 Community Renewables is quite tangible over the 00:02:25.610 --> 00:02:28.129 last year since we formed 10 years ago and that's 00:02:28.129 --> 00:02:31.969 really inspiring and that really energises me 00:02:31.969 --> 00:02:34.849 to get involved and to keep working hard to put 00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:37.009 solar panels on the roofs to reduce carbon emissions 00:02:37.009 --> 00:02:40.689 and to share the wealth of community energy. 00:02:41.650 --> 00:02:44.169 Okay so let's explain this very simply because 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:47.860 many of people will not have heard of community 00:02:47.860 --> 00:02:51.659 energy. Can you explain in really simple terms 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:54.639 what is Greater Manchester Community Renewables 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.080 and why does it matter? I mean we've talked a 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:58.699 little bit about the importance of spreading 00:02:58.699 --> 00:03:01.620 that message out into the community but why is 00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:03.900 this important? I'll start with community energy. 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:07.560 It's a hugely interesting area and something 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.819 I'm super passionate about and anyone who's involved 00:03:09.819 --> 00:03:12.039 with community energy is very passionate about 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.729 it because they really see it as catalyst for 00:03:15.729 --> 00:03:18.469 systemic change within our energy system. I think 00:03:18.469 --> 00:03:21.789 everyone in the UK, around Western Europe, around 00:03:21.789 --> 00:03:24.009 the world, in fact, knows that the energy system 00:03:24.009 --> 00:03:28.009 does not benefit everybody equally. It favors 00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:32.669 big companies. It is very vulnerable. Just recently 00:03:32.669 --> 00:03:35.310 we realized how vulnerable we are. Remember the 00:03:35.310 --> 00:03:38.770 war when Russia invaded Ukraine. It sent energy 00:03:38.770 --> 00:03:42.349 markets skyrocketing and things like that. community 00:03:42.349 --> 00:03:44.590 energy is a way to say hang on a minute no that 00:03:44.590 --> 00:03:46.849 doesn't have to be the way things are we can 00:03:46.849 --> 00:03:49.830 reclaim that energy we can generate energy ourselves 00:03:49.830 --> 00:03:52.849 and we can actually own that energy in a community 00:03:52.849 --> 00:03:56.430 way one of the models we've taken at gmcr is 00:03:56.430 --> 00:04:01.069 to buy and raise capital for solar panels put 00:04:01.069 --> 00:04:03.710 them on school roofs and then ourselves and our 00:04:03.710 --> 00:04:07.199 members own those renewable assets and then That 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:09.360 means that all of the profits and all of the 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.199 benefits of those energy generation, those power 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:14.379 stations on the roofs, if you call it that, all 00:04:14.379 --> 00:04:16.100 those benefits can be felt by the community. 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:18.259 It's not being sucked up into a board. It's not 00:04:18.259 --> 00:04:21.079 being sent to shareholders in powerful countries. 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:24.759 Community energy, in essence, brings that energy 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:28.759 system right back onto the ground level and reclaims 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:30.660 it within the community in which it exists, which 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:33.399 I think, personally, is a... So it's kind of 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:35.680 thrilling and it's been great to see the growth 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:37.639 in the sector over the past few years and continuing 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:40.480 to see that grow at the moment as well. And those 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:43.399 benefits, hence the fact that it's going back, 00:04:43.459 --> 00:04:46.000 hence why you're not putting those panels on 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.399 commercial premises. When you talk about the 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.720 wider impact and benefits, can you give me some 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.060 concrete examples about that? We know that children 00:04:55.060 --> 00:04:58.120 are learning about climate change. We know this 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.029 is their future. We know that's important. But 00:05:01.029 --> 00:05:04.290 what are the tangible benefits today other than 00:05:04.290 --> 00:05:06.589 obviously the big issue of electricity prices? 00:05:07.170 --> 00:05:09.329 Yeah, so you mentioned at the start one of the 00:05:09.329 --> 00:05:12.050 key reasons we do this is and the reasons we 00:05:12.050 --> 00:05:14.250 actually target and we do it on schools because 00:05:14.250 --> 00:05:15.970 schools can't raise the capital, schools are 00:05:15.970 --> 00:05:18.300 stretched, we all know that. By providing a way 00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:20.339 to give the capital for them to put the solar 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:22.300 panels on the roof, A, the schools don't have 00:05:22.300 --> 00:05:24.120 to find the capitals themselves, which they struggle 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:26.759 to do. And two, it means that they can, it means 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:28.759 that they're able to feel the benefits financially 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:31.000 of those solar panels. And it's actually one 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:32.639 of the biggest draws to schools, obviously the 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:35.699 climate issue, but they're going to save thousands 00:05:35.699 --> 00:05:38.459 of pounds on their, on their energy bills. We 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:40.579 estimate that we've saved the schools who we 00:05:40.579 --> 00:05:44.300 put solar panels on. up to around £200 ,000 on 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:46.879 their bills since we came to the operation. I 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:48.279 mean, that is a staggering amount of money and 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.600 you can just imagine the amount of things that 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:52.579 that money can buy in a school and the schools 00:05:52.579 --> 00:05:55.360 that we work with and that we put solar panels 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.040 on. will continue to feel those benefits all 00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:59.459 the time and they'll continue to be able to put 00:05:59.459 --> 00:06:02.040 money back into their schools on things like 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:05.360 books on you know on teaching resources on teachers 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:06.980 themselves you know there's the schools who have 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:08.319 to lay people off because they don't have the 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:10.040 money just because the energy price is good you 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:11.819 know it's a scandalous situation if you think 00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:13.699 about it really so we allow the schools to have 00:06:13.699 --> 00:06:15.980 that bit more give the schools a little bit more 00:06:15.980 --> 00:06:18.120 money back and we're able to do that because 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:21.139 we can actually charge the school a lower rate 00:06:21.139 --> 00:06:22.860 for the energy once the solar panels are on there 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:26.639 it's beneficial to them to do that Even though 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.339 we own the solar panels, we can still sell the 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:30.000 energy to them at a lower rate. Yes. And have 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.279 you actually heard that example of being able 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.939 to... I love the idea of being able to plough 00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:39.660 that back into books, but an extra teaching assistant, 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:41.800 for example, can make all the difference to a 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.160 child's life. Is that... That's reality, is it? 00:06:45.259 --> 00:06:46.860 That some of that money could... Yeah, well, 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:48.639 I mean, that's just the way to... Yeah, that's, 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:50.420 you know, if schools are saving money in one 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:51.879 area, then they can put the money towards other 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:55.230 things. in in another area as well. Another way 00:06:55.230 --> 00:06:57.089 that this really does have a tangible difference 00:06:57.089 --> 00:06:59.550 on schools and where I know one thing we're super 00:06:59.550 --> 00:07:01.230 proud of and again this comes back to the reason 00:07:01.230 --> 00:07:03.589 why community energy is so useful and so and 00:07:03.589 --> 00:07:06.230 so great for the schools and for everyone involved 00:07:06.230 --> 00:07:08.850 is that we have the GMCR community fund the great 00:07:08.850 --> 00:07:10.970 Manchester community community community fund 00:07:10.970 --> 00:07:12.730 so that's a fund which is made up of the surplus 00:07:12.730 --> 00:07:15.050 profit surplus money that we make and schools 00:07:15.050 --> 00:07:18.000 can bid into that and to get you know, to do 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:21.300 environmental projects in their schools and schools 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:23.959 have done that in areas where we've worked. They've 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:26.500 applied for money to install energy efficiency 00:07:26.500 --> 00:07:28.199 improvements, LED lights and things like that. 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.360 They've also done it to fund environmental education, 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:33.480 build bird boxes, improve the school grounds, 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:35.519 those kind of things. And we've got examples 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:37.399 where schools have applied for that money and 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:39.860 we're constantly receiving applications from 00:07:39.860 --> 00:07:42.240 our schools to use that money to improve their 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:44.439 schools, to teach about the benefits of environmental 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:48.019 education. How does that? community ownership 00:07:48.019 --> 00:07:50.740 changed the story, do you think, to a private 00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:54.339 energy company installing the same panels? It's 00:07:54.339 --> 00:07:56.920 quite a story, isn't it? Yeah, it's pretty much 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.000 a story. And for me, when I talk about this, 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:01.600 because I go to a lot of events and catching 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:03.120 people on the street and talking to them about 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.120 it. And to be honest, it's one of the easiest 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:08.500 things to ever sell because it's just when people 00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:10.339 start understanding it, they think, well, yeah, 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:12.220 obviously you're going to do that. Obviously 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:13.379 you're going to invest your money in that. It 00:08:13.379 --> 00:08:15.639 just makes sense. You know, it's, you know, schools 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.779 are there to provide public function to everybody, 00:08:17.980 --> 00:08:19.579 but they have no money to install solar panels 00:08:19.579 --> 00:08:21.500 to that day. So they can't do it. So then they 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:23.420 have to pay the market rate for energy. We go, 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:25.240 hang on a minute. Why don't, you know, why don't 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:27.600 we all pull together here, put in the money for 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.699 the solar panels, install them. The school can 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:33.200 get reduced rate on their energy. And, oh yeah, 00:08:33.220 --> 00:08:34.639 by the way, because we're still making a little 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.799 bit of money as the energy provider, we can pay 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.679 that investment back. Anything you put in, we'll 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:41.740 pay that back over 20 years with 5 % interest. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.320 It's a win -win -win. No one's losing out on 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.940 that. And the only people who lose now are the 00:08:46.940 --> 00:08:49.379 big energy companies. I don't think many people 00:08:49.379 --> 00:08:52.080 lose much sleep from that. So, you know, yeah, 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:54.559 as I say, it's a really great story about, you 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:56.980 know, reclaiming it. And as I say, it's such 00:08:56.980 --> 00:08:58.740 an easy sell when you start explaining it to 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.220 people. Tell us a little bit about, I don't find 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:03.700 finance as simple, and most people probably don't 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:06.240 either. Explain how, where that funding comes 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.620 from. Because as you say, that model, it seems 00:09:09.620 --> 00:09:12.340 that it comes from the heart, you know, an inspiration. 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:15.500 But practically, where is this money coming from? 00:09:15.539 --> 00:09:17.820 How are you raising these funds, which is making 00:09:17.820 --> 00:09:20.519 such a difference? Yeah. So what we do, and a 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:22.700 lot of community energy, a lot of community energy 00:09:22.700 --> 00:09:25.200 organizations around the country will do, is 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.419 they will open what's called a share offer. and 00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:29.840 that's where as a community benefit society we 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:31.679 say okay we're going to open a share offer for 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.799 two months and you have the opportunity to invest 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.279 and become a member of gmcr because we need capital 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:39.399 at the moment to put solar panels onto a school 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.539 this happened last year in 2025 we had a few 00:09:41.539 --> 00:09:43.220 schools who approached us and we were ready to 00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:45.480 put solar panels on there and we said okay right 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:47.559 hand a minute right we need 200 000 pounds of 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:49.159 funding so what we say is okay we're going to 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.440 open up a share offer for two months you've got 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.940 that much time to invest in gmcr become a member 00:09:53.940 --> 00:09:56.429 and everyone who invest, no matter how much you 00:09:56.429 --> 00:10:01.049 invest, you get that many shares, but you become 00:10:01.049 --> 00:10:04.409 a member of GMCR. And then we use that capital, 00:10:04.669 --> 00:10:06.470 once that's in our bank, to put the solar panels 00:10:06.470 --> 00:10:08.429 onto the roof. And any members who are part of 00:10:08.429 --> 00:10:10.389 that, who invested in that share offer, will 00:10:10.389 --> 00:10:13.610 then be paid interest for the next 20 years on 00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:17.029 that as well. And that's how we operate as a 00:10:17.029 --> 00:10:18.549 business. That's how we attract the investment. 00:10:19.309 --> 00:10:23.710 What would you think the biggest barrier to scaling 00:10:23.710 --> 00:10:26.590 that is? or is there a big barrier? Well, there 00:10:26.590 --> 00:10:30.809 must be the challenges. One thing you'd initially 00:10:30.809 --> 00:10:32.210 think is that, okay, hang on a minute, we're 00:10:32.210 --> 00:10:33.309 going to run out, people are going to run out 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:34.730 of money in the community. But actually, we don't 00:10:34.730 --> 00:10:37.090 see that. You know, we actually see that whenever 00:10:37.090 --> 00:10:38.909 we open a share offer, it's really hard to see 00:10:38.909 --> 00:10:41.149 how many people reinvest. You know, they say, 00:10:41.370 --> 00:10:43.929 wow, you know, I've got extra money. You might 00:10:43.929 --> 00:10:46.250 hear in the media about people or, you know, 00:10:46.370 --> 00:10:47.990 people are saying people in the UK have too much 00:10:47.990 --> 00:10:49.450 money in current accounts. They're the kind of, 00:10:49.490 --> 00:10:50.909 you know, that's the kind of thing which this 00:10:50.909 --> 00:10:52.690 is actually perfect for. It says actually, you 00:10:52.690 --> 00:10:55.200 know, you can put money into it. invest it in 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:57.820 your local community and make interest on it. 00:10:57.820 --> 00:10:59.460 It's not just going to lose value from being 00:10:59.460 --> 00:11:02.279 in a Santa Carolina account. I think in terms 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:05.360 of rolling out and scaling up for us, it becomes 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:07.340 down to a few more technical things around the 00:11:07.340 --> 00:11:09.940 policy environment. Things like grid connections, 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:13.440 legal challenges. Once you start getting into 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.299 the detail, it does become quite complex. I think 00:11:16.299 --> 00:11:19.240 if we could smooth those areas out, make it easier 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:22.100 for people to enter into the community. For instance, 00:11:22.179 --> 00:11:24.389 if it was easier to the share of energy from 00:11:24.389 --> 00:11:27.889 one school if one school would you know during 00:11:27.889 --> 00:11:29.950 summer for instance if you put solar panels on 00:11:29.950 --> 00:11:32.909 a school school aren't using that that energy 00:11:32.909 --> 00:11:35.429 but the current market the current way the grid 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:38.190 is set up is that it's actually physically impossible 00:11:38.190 --> 00:11:39.950 for you to sell that energy it's like a neighbor 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:41.549 somewhere nearby it just the grid just won't 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:44.149 allow it everyone's looking like you know why 00:11:44.149 --> 00:11:46.429 is the case so we've got these old systems that 00:11:46.429 --> 00:11:48.590 we use it's you know it's the same old story 00:11:48.590 --> 00:11:50.549 we've got in the uk we've got these outdated 00:11:50.549 --> 00:11:52.809 systems I know and we want to see those things 00:11:52.809 --> 00:11:55.309 change to make it smoother and I'm sure that 00:11:55.309 --> 00:11:57.009 will help make things easier and it allows the 00:11:57.009 --> 00:11:59.049 scale up. So a lot of work in the background 00:11:59.049 --> 00:12:01.590 in trying to turn things away and turn things 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:05.090 around and a bit like a huge oil tanker isn't 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:07.070 it is trying to shift people's perceptions and 00:12:07.070 --> 00:12:09.730 ideas but one thing for sure is people are obviously 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:11.169 investing because they think they're going to 00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:13.509 get something back but actually it's a really 00:12:13.509 --> 00:12:16.590 good thing to invest in. Now the children I know 00:12:16.590 --> 00:12:21.509 they care deeply about the planet and Obviously, 00:12:21.649 --> 00:12:23.809 it's all about their future. And you mentioned 00:12:23.809 --> 00:12:26.370 you go and do a lot of visits. You get out and 00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:29.149 chat to people. How do you talk to the children 00:12:29.149 --> 00:12:31.429 about what's happening? Do they care about the 00:12:31.429 --> 00:12:32.889 solar panels? Do you think on their roof? Do 00:12:32.889 --> 00:12:34.509 they care about where their energy is coming 00:12:34.509 --> 00:12:37.730 from? Anyone who works with children and children 00:12:37.730 --> 00:12:39.029 especially who have been educated on climate 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:40.210 change will know that they're the first people 00:12:40.210 --> 00:12:43.250 to tell you what to do with your money and your 00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:45.090 solar panels. They know exactly what's going 00:12:45.090 --> 00:12:47.450 on. they're often a lot more direct than we are 00:12:47.450 --> 00:12:49.730 as adults about what should be on their school 00:12:49.730 --> 00:12:51.690 and so you know whenever we have the conversation 00:12:51.690 --> 00:12:55.470 with students it's really inspiring to see and 00:12:55.470 --> 00:12:58.850 when when we opened our largest solar panel installation 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:00.750 at wellington secondary school a couple years 00:13:00.750 --> 00:13:04.669 ago the eco council was there at the launch to 00:13:04.669 --> 00:13:07.070 sort of welcome it and sort of say how proud 00:13:07.070 --> 00:13:08.870 they were and how happy they were because it 00:13:08.870 --> 00:13:10.509 was you know something which they came up with 00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:13.779 initially in their in one of their eco club meetings 00:13:13.779 --> 00:13:15.580 they said you know like we have this huge roof 00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:18.399 and we have solar panels so the students the 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.759 pupils who know about it and who learn about 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:23.940 climate change you know they're always so inspired 00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:26.320 to to know that the school has been powered by 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.799 by solar energy as I'm sure you can imagine. 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:30.039 Indeed well it was a bit of a silly question 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:31.700 really I was interested to see what you said 00:13:31.700 --> 00:13:33.419 because I'm lucky enough to go into quite a few 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:35.480 schools as well because obviously we work in 00:13:36.449 --> 00:13:39.090 in delivering decarbonisation on behalf of government 00:13:39.090 --> 00:13:41.750 and we go into a lot of schools and you're absolutely 00:13:41.750 --> 00:13:45.049 right, the children know it's not just about 00:13:45.049 --> 00:13:47.269 switching off lights but they understand whether 00:13:47.269 --> 00:13:49.389 they're using an S -source heat pump, a ground 00:13:49.389 --> 00:13:51.529 source heat pump, they've been involved in the 00:13:51.529 --> 00:13:55.350 project from the start and they're really curious 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:58.769 about all things energy. We make sure that when 00:13:58.769 --> 00:14:01.049 we put an install in that we have No readable 00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:03.629 meters. Yes, people to go to people to go and 00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:05.570 have a look out so they can see on a real -time 00:14:05.570 --> 00:14:07.250 basis Actually, what the energy is being generated 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:09.409 which obviously like brings it to life, you know 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:10.590 Another thing we do, you know, we have an app 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:12.690 which anyone can go on and see the data that's 00:14:12.690 --> 00:14:14.090 being generated So, you know, it's about bringing 00:14:14.090 --> 00:14:16.590 it to life and and you know, and as you say, 00:14:16.590 --> 00:14:19.350 yeah people's love Yeah, and taking those messages 00:14:19.350 --> 00:14:21.509 and they take those messages home and I know 00:14:21.509 --> 00:14:24.730 that one child said to me that uh He was constantly 00:14:24.730 --> 00:14:27.450 telling his sister off because she didn't open 00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:30.730 the curtains and let the daylight in and preferred 00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:32.450 to put her light on because he was going around 00:14:32.450 --> 00:14:36.230 the house switching off the light. They explain 00:14:36.230 --> 00:14:38.309 things in the simplest terms, sometimes the simplest 00:14:38.309 --> 00:14:42.889 terms are the best. Okay, so from your experience, 00:14:43.350 --> 00:14:45.570 hugely experienced in this area and seeing local 00:14:45.570 --> 00:14:48.970 action, passion translated into action, into 00:14:48.970 --> 00:14:51.450 something really tangible, making a difference 00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:53.509 and you've actually found a way to make money 00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:55.830 out of this as well and put back into the community. 00:14:56.250 --> 00:14:57.929 But from your experience, do you think local 00:14:57.929 --> 00:15:00.590 action is more powerful than national climate 00:15:00.590 --> 00:15:04.149 policy? Or do we need both of those working together? 00:15:04.710 --> 00:15:06.730 We all obviously need both of them working together 00:15:06.730 --> 00:15:09.470 and actually it's really positive to see the 00:15:09.470 --> 00:15:12.769 movements of the new or the newish Labour government 00:15:12.769 --> 00:15:15.299 who have been really keen. on community energy 00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:17.440 more so than previous governments. And the recent 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.840 local power plant, they committed a billion pounds 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.299 towards community energy, which is huge. And 00:15:22.299 --> 00:15:23.899 there was about a thousand community groups, 00:15:24.220 --> 00:15:26.340 community energy organizations they want to support. 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.139 That's fantastic. For me and for anyone who's 00:15:30.139 --> 00:15:32.500 involved with community energy, the benefit of 00:15:32.500 --> 00:15:34.879 community energy is being able to get stuck into 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:36.840 local level action. It's been able to make a 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.080 difference in your area and on climate change. 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:42.139 If national government can create an environment 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:43.990 where that's even easier. then I think that can 00:15:43.990 --> 00:15:45.490 only be a good thing. It's only going to be better 00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:46.990 for that because it would mean that more people 00:15:46.990 --> 00:15:49.049 can get involved with community energy and more 00:15:49.049 --> 00:15:53.350 people can direct their energy on this issue, 00:15:53.669 --> 00:15:55.990 on climate change, because a lot of it's all 00:15:55.990 --> 00:15:58.029 out there, isn't it? It's all China and America, 00:15:58.529 --> 00:16:00.289 global warming, those kind of things. They say, 00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:02.889 actually, what can I do in my area? I feel a 00:16:02.889 --> 00:16:06.149 bit powerless, perhaps. So community energy allows 00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:08.340 you the opportunity to do that. the more that 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:10.059 national government realises that and makes it 00:16:10.059 --> 00:16:13.000 easier for community energy to flourish then 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.840 the more that people will be able to direct their 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.019 passion into it. Literally putting the power 00:16:18.019 --> 00:16:20.799 back into the communities and because we see 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:22.919 such kind of doom stories don't we when we look 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:24.620 at the news in terms of what's happening with 00:16:24.620 --> 00:16:26.620 climate emergency but actually this is giving 00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:30.580 people the ability to make a difference in that 00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:33.679 way. Now, you've obviously got the knowledge, 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.419 you've got the skills there in Manchester, and 00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:38.919 there are other community energy projects. But 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:43.139 if every town in the UK had what you have there, 00:16:43.340 --> 00:16:45.940 and I appreciate that you want to grow and expand 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:47.919 and there's obviously always more work and more 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.799 schools you want to work with. But if every town 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:55.240 in the UK had a community energy group like yours, 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:57.820 What difference do you think that would make? 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.759 I think it would make a huge difference in terms 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.220 of people being engaged with their local area, 00:17:04.299 --> 00:17:06.400 being engaged with the community by financially 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.559 having a stake in assets that are in the community. 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:11.720 It means you're part of that community, it means 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.940 you're deepening your roots there and I think 00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:16.839 if everyone had that in every town then I think 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:18.980 that would be a fantastic benefit to them because 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:21.759 it would allow them, you know, it would give 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.900 them more say and more interest in that. area 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:26.980 more so than you do at the moment because at 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:28.500 the moment you know you live somewhere things 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:32.079 happen in your schools go up roads roads and 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.880 roads and decisions are made without you necessarily 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.400 feeling like you're part of it whereas if you 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:39.980 can invest in physical assets to go on a school 00:17:39.980 --> 00:17:42.279 and let's say for instance the policy did change 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.079 the policy arena did change and actually you 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.579 were able to benefit from local you know a large 00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:51.920 renewable scheme that was nearby you would actually 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.059 feel it financially as well. I think that the 00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:56.099 more we see it and the more mainstream it becomes, 00:17:56.740 --> 00:17:58.980 I think the benefits to people would start becoming 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.480 actually not just about being you know empowered, 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:03.480 it would about becoming financially you'd have 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.240 people to benefit from that from there, from 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:07.460 seeing the difference on the energy bills but 00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:10.480 for our members the benefit is getting that return 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.660 on investment which they do year on year. Are 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.440 you finding that people and groups around the 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.559 country or just people just testing the water 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.680 coming to you and asking you for advice? picking 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.799 your brains. We have a lot of people come to 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.779 us and just sort of, you know, asking for advice 00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:26.660 and things like that. I mean, I think it's changed 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:29.519 now, you know, we're 10 years old, 10 years ago, 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.019 you know, solar panels on schools was probably 00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:34.660 quite novel at the time. Solar panels on a lot 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:36.359 of places, a lot of buildings, there's a huge 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.140 energy around, there's a huge industry around 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:40.099 it. Solar panels are a lot cheaper for a start, 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:41.700 which makes things easier and it's just a lot 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.359 more mainstream. So people do kind of understand 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.640 the policy and the area. So it's less about that. 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.180 It's more so about people asking questions about... 00:18:50.029 --> 00:18:52.029 how to make it happen in their area, which obviously 00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:55.470 we're happy to help them. And what kind of advice 00:18:55.470 --> 00:18:57.970 do you ask? For example, what kind of question 00:18:57.970 --> 00:19:00.089 would somebody ask and what kind of advice would 00:19:00.089 --> 00:19:03.009 you offer? One thing I would advise people to 00:19:03.009 --> 00:19:06.130 do, whoever asks us about community energy, because 00:19:06.130 --> 00:19:11.430 we have solar panels on 10, 11, as of a couple 00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:14.230 of months ago, in the Greater Manchester area, 00:19:14.250 --> 00:19:16.329 which is a huge geographical area, 3 million 00:19:16.329 --> 00:19:19.609 people in there. 1000 schools in Manchester. 00:19:20.329 --> 00:19:22.609 So one thing I would say to people is that, you 00:19:22.609 --> 00:19:25.109 know, it is possible and they can do it and you 00:19:25.109 --> 00:19:28.049 can go and do it in any area of the UK. And there 00:19:28.049 --> 00:19:30.549 are support mechanisms out there. You know, community 00:19:30.549 --> 00:19:32.829 is an organization called Community Energy England, 00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:35.609 and they are the set the lead and set to support 00:19:35.609 --> 00:19:37.670 for community energy across across England and 00:19:37.670 --> 00:19:40.710 not be similar in any other countries in the 00:19:40.710 --> 00:19:43.349 United Kingdom. They are they have a huge amount 00:19:43.349 --> 00:19:45.170 of support available to anyone who wants to get 00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:47.470 involved in community energy. They facilitate 00:19:47.470 --> 00:19:50.289 the Community Energy Fund which is soon to be 00:19:50.289 --> 00:19:53.309 the Great British Energy Fund so that and we 00:19:53.309 --> 00:19:55.150 as we as an organization have benefited from 00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:57.829 that so you know there's funding there for people 00:19:57.829 --> 00:20:01.130 who want to help who who wants to start Community 00:20:01.130 --> 00:20:03.210 Energy and Community Energy England and the government 00:20:03.210 --> 00:20:05.970 now are really keen to see it grow so we always 00:20:05.970 --> 00:20:07.769 say to people look if you're interested in it 00:20:07.769 --> 00:20:10.029 go online have a little look find something that 00:20:10.029 --> 00:20:12.089 you know if there's not something already in 00:20:12.089 --> 00:20:14.420 your area which there may already be have a think 00:20:14.420 --> 00:20:16.299 about just doing something yourself you know 00:20:16.299 --> 00:20:18.200 it's so empowering to be able to say that you 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:19.960 know you've really made a difference in your 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:22.900 area. So there is support and there is a lot 00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:25.279 of obviously learning that over the last decade 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.500 as you say that you have you're willing to share 00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:32.039 as other groups are. Absolutely we've been in 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.539 the game for 10 years you learn a lot over that 00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:36.339 time we're always keen to share that information 00:20:36.339 --> 00:20:38.740 we do that on our website we do that through 00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:41.400 blog posts and through videos whenever we can 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.279 we're always trying to communicate those stories. 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.839 as well so have a little look for GMCR Great 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.480 Manchester Community Renewables on social media 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:51.920 and online and people would be able to find a 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.720 bit of information about what we do there's some 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.380 nice videos on there and so you know blog posts 00:20:56.380 --> 00:20:58.319 about what community energy is and how it's looking. 00:20:58.539 --> 00:21:00.700 could start something themselves. Superb so look 00:21:00.700 --> 00:21:03.460 at your website and pick your brains and see 00:21:03.460 --> 00:21:05.599 what's been done but also be ambitious for your 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.980 own area too and that's really good advice to 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:10.180 look what's what's happening already and if there 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:14.099 isn't how about starting something up because 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:17.099 that's exactly what you did a decade ago and 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:19.359 have made such a success of it and are making 00:21:19.609 --> 00:21:23.130 such a difference. Thank you to Tudor Baker who 00:21:23.130 --> 00:21:25.009 from the Greater Manchester Community Renewables 00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:28.269 Limited for joining us today. Don't forget to 00:21:28.269 --> 00:21:30.609 subscribe to our podcast channels and email us 00:21:30.609 --> 00:21:33.970 with your views and news at podcast at salixfinance 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:37.849 .co .uk. Thank you once again to Tudor. Thank 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:40.289 you. Thank you very much. You've been listening 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:43.730 to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from 00:21:43.730 --> 00:21:47.160 Salix. For more information about our work and 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.759 to find more content, please visit salixfinance 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.819 .co .uk forward slash podcasts.