You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue,
a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker and I believe that
the best way to communicate a message is by being
passionate about what you are talking about.
Thank you very much to Tudor Baker today for
joining me. Tudor is Director of Greater Manchester
Community Renewables Limited. It's a community
benefit society, and I know we're going to be
hearing a lot more about that, but it was set
up and run by volunteers to install community
owned renewable energy across Greater Manchester.
Its job is to raise funds to install solar panels
on schools and community buildings, helping them
save money, reduce their carbon footprint and
inspire children and the community to learn about
energy and climate change. So far, I believe,
and I'm sure Tudor will correct me, the Greater
Manchester Community Renewables has installed
solar arrays on around eight primary schools,
seven in Salford and one in Bury and a secondary
school in Timperley and a community centre in
Partington. The panels are held for the benefit
of the community and any surpluses go back into
the Greater Manchester Community Renewables Limited
Community Fund. I'm trying to avoid acronyms.
to support local carbon reduction, energy efficiency,
and environmental education projects. So welcome
to Tudor. Hello, thanks for having me. Thank
you. Let's start. Can you tell us a little bit
about your own journey and how you got to be
here? Absolutely, yeah. So my own journey personally
was learning about climate change during university.
I studied climate change at Leeds University
about 10 years ago. Feels like yesterday, but
time flies, doesn't it? I graduated with a, and
learned about the issues with the way the world
is going basically as we all have over the last
10, 15 years. And since moving to Manchester,
I've been sort of committed to try and make a
difference, to try and make an impact and change
things the best I can in our environment. And
one of the ways that I saw that I could really
make a difference was through getting involved
with Greater Manchester Community Renewables.
And I think I shared that with the people who
get involved is one of the key reasons we do
that is because the impact on the Greater Manchester
Community Renewables is quite tangible over the
last year since we formed 10 years ago and that's
really inspiring and that really energises me
to get involved and to keep working hard to put
solar panels on the roofs to reduce carbon emissions
and to share the wealth of community energy.
Okay so let's explain this very simply because
many of people will not have heard of community
energy. Can you explain in really simple terms
what is Greater Manchester Community Renewables
and why does it matter? I mean we've talked a
little bit about the importance of spreading
that message out into the community but why is
this important? I'll start with community energy.
It's a hugely interesting area and something
I'm super passionate about and anyone who's involved
with community energy is very passionate about
it because they really see it as catalyst for
systemic change within our energy system. I think
everyone in the UK, around Western Europe, around
the world, in fact, knows that the energy system
does not benefit everybody equally. It favors
big companies. It is very vulnerable. Just recently
we realized how vulnerable we are. Remember the
war when Russia invaded Ukraine. It sent energy
markets skyrocketing and things like that. community
energy is a way to say hang on a minute no that
doesn't have to be the way things are we can
reclaim that energy we can generate energy ourselves
and we can actually own that energy in a community
way one of the models we've taken at gmcr is
to buy and raise capital for solar panels put
them on school roofs and then ourselves and our
members own those renewable assets and then That
means that all of the profits and all of the
benefits of those energy generation, those power
stations on the roofs, if you call it that, all
those benefits can be felt by the community.
It's not being sucked up into a board. It's not
being sent to shareholders in powerful countries.
Community energy, in essence, brings that energy
system right back onto the ground level and reclaims
it within the community in which it exists, which
I think, personally, is a... So it's kind of
thrilling and it's been great to see the growth
in the sector over the past few years and continuing
to see that grow at the moment as well. And those
benefits, hence the fact that it's going back,
hence why you're not putting those panels on
commercial premises. When you talk about the
wider impact and benefits, can you give me some
concrete examples about that? We know that children
are learning about climate change. We know this
is their future. We know that's important. But
what are the tangible benefits today other than
obviously the big issue of electricity prices?
Yeah, so you mentioned at the start one of the
key reasons we do this is and the reasons we
actually target and we do it on schools because
schools can't raise the capital, schools are
stretched, we all know that. By providing a way
to give the capital for them to put the solar
panels on the roof, A, the schools don't have
to find the capitals themselves, which they struggle
to do. And two, it means that they can, it means
that they're able to feel the benefits financially
of those solar panels. And it's actually one
of the biggest draws to schools, obviously the
climate issue, but they're going to save thousands
of pounds on their, on their energy bills. We
estimate that we've saved the schools who we
put solar panels on. up to around £200 ,000 on
their bills since we came to the operation. I
mean, that is a staggering amount of money and
you can just imagine the amount of things that
that money can buy in a school and the schools
that we work with and that we put solar panels
on. will continue to feel those benefits all
the time and they'll continue to be able to put
money back into their schools on things like
books on you know on teaching resources on teachers
themselves you know there's the schools who have
to lay people off because they don't have the
money just because the energy price is good you
know it's a scandalous situation if you think
about it really so we allow the schools to have
that bit more give the schools a little bit more
money back and we're able to do that because
we can actually charge the school a lower rate
for the energy once the solar panels are on there
it's beneficial to them to do that Even though
we own the solar panels, we can still sell the
energy to them at a lower rate. Yes. And have
you actually heard that example of being able
to... I love the idea of being able to plough
that back into books, but an extra teaching assistant,
for example, can make all the difference to a
child's life. Is that... That's reality, is it?
That some of that money could... Yeah, well,
I mean, that's just the way to... Yeah, that's,
you know, if schools are saving money in one
area, then they can put the money towards other
things. in in another area as well. Another way
that this really does have a tangible difference
on schools and where I know one thing we're super
proud of and again this comes back to the reason
why community energy is so useful and so and
so great for the schools and for everyone involved
is that we have the GMCR community fund the great
Manchester community community community fund
so that's a fund which is made up of the surplus
profit surplus money that we make and schools
can bid into that and to get you know, to do
environmental projects in their schools and schools
have done that in areas where we've worked. They've
applied for money to install energy efficiency
improvements, LED lights and things like that.
They've also done it to fund environmental education,
build bird boxes, improve the school grounds,
those kind of things. And we've got examples
where schools have applied for that money and
we're constantly receiving applications from
our schools to use that money to improve their
schools, to teach about the benefits of environmental
education. How does that? community ownership
changed the story, do you think, to a private
energy company installing the same panels? It's
quite a story, isn't it? Yeah, it's pretty much
a story. And for me, when I talk about this,
because I go to a lot of events and catching
people on the street and talking to them about
it. And to be honest, it's one of the easiest
things to ever sell because it's just when people
start understanding it, they think, well, yeah,
obviously you're going to do that. Obviously
you're going to invest your money in that. It
just makes sense. You know, it's, you know, schools
are there to provide public function to everybody,
but they have no money to install solar panels
to that day. So they can't do it. So then they
have to pay the market rate for energy. We go,
hang on a minute. Why don't, you know, why don't
we all pull together here, put in the money for
the solar panels, install them. The school can
get reduced rate on their energy. And, oh yeah,
by the way, because we're still making a little
bit of money as the energy provider, we can pay
that investment back. Anything you put in, we'll
pay that back over 20 years with 5 % interest.
It's a win -win -win. No one's losing out on
that. And the only people who lose now are the
big energy companies. I don't think many people
lose much sleep from that. So, you know, yeah,
as I say, it's a really great story about, you
know, reclaiming it. And as I say, it's such
an easy sell when you start explaining it to
people. Tell us a little bit about, I don't find
finance as simple, and most people probably don't
either. Explain how, where that funding comes
from. Because as you say, that model, it seems
that it comes from the heart, you know, an inspiration.
But practically, where is this money coming from?
How are you raising these funds, which is making
such a difference? Yeah. So what we do, and a
lot of community energy, a lot of community energy
organizations around the country will do, is
they will open what's called a share offer. and
that's where as a community benefit society we
say okay we're going to open a share offer for
two months and you have the opportunity to invest
and become a member of gmcr because we need capital
at the moment to put solar panels onto a school
this happened last year in 2025 we had a few
schools who approached us and we were ready to
put solar panels on there and we said okay right
hand a minute right we need 200 000 pounds of
funding so what we say is okay we're going to
open up a share offer for two months you've got
that much time to invest in gmcr become a member
and everyone who invest, no matter how much you
invest, you get that many shares, but you become
a member of GMCR. And then we use that capital,
once that's in our bank, to put the solar panels
onto the roof. And any members who are part of
that, who invested in that share offer, will
then be paid interest for the next 20 years on
that as well. And that's how we operate as a
business. That's how we attract the investment.
What would you think the biggest barrier to scaling
that is? or is there a big barrier? Well, there
must be the challenges. One thing you'd initially
think is that, okay, hang on a minute, we're
going to run out, people are going to run out
of money in the community. But actually, we don't
see that. You know, we actually see that whenever
we open a share offer, it's really hard to see
how many people reinvest. You know, they say,
wow, you know, I've got extra money. You might
hear in the media about people or, you know,
people are saying people in the UK have too much
money in current accounts. They're the kind of,
you know, that's the kind of thing which this
is actually perfect for. It says actually, you
know, you can put money into it. invest it in
your local community and make interest on it.
It's not just going to lose value from being
in a Santa Carolina account. I think in terms
of rolling out and scaling up for us, it becomes
down to a few more technical things around the
policy environment. Things like grid connections,
legal challenges. Once you start getting into
the detail, it does become quite complex. I think
if we could smooth those areas out, make it easier
for people to enter into the community. For instance,
if it was easier to the share of energy from
one school if one school would you know during
summer for instance if you put solar panels on
a school school aren't using that that energy
but the current market the current way the grid
is set up is that it's actually physically impossible
for you to sell that energy it's like a neighbor
somewhere nearby it just the grid just won't
allow it everyone's looking like you know why
is the case so we've got these old systems that
we use it's you know it's the same old story
we've got in the uk we've got these outdated
systems I know and we want to see those things
change to make it smoother and I'm sure that
will help make things easier and it allows the
scale up. So a lot of work in the background
in trying to turn things away and turn things
around and a bit like a huge oil tanker isn't
it is trying to shift people's perceptions and
ideas but one thing for sure is people are obviously
investing because they think they're going to
get something back but actually it's a really
good thing to invest in. Now the children I know
they care deeply about the planet and Obviously,
it's all about their future. And you mentioned
you go and do a lot of visits. You get out and
chat to people. How do you talk to the children
about what's happening? Do they care about the
solar panels? Do you think on their roof? Do
they care about where their energy is coming
from? Anyone who works with children and children
especially who have been educated on climate
change will know that they're the first people
to tell you what to do with your money and your
solar panels. They know exactly what's going
on. they're often a lot more direct than we are
as adults about what should be on their school
and so you know whenever we have the conversation
with students it's really inspiring to see and
when when we opened our largest solar panel installation
at wellington secondary school a couple years
ago the eco council was there at the launch to
sort of welcome it and sort of say how proud
they were and how happy they were because it
was you know something which they came up with
initially in their in one of their eco club meetings
they said you know like we have this huge roof
and we have solar panels so the students the
pupils who know about it and who learn about
climate change you know they're always so inspired
to to know that the school has been powered by
by solar energy as I'm sure you can imagine.
Indeed well it was a bit of a silly question
really I was interested to see what you said
because I'm lucky enough to go into quite a few
schools as well because obviously we work in
in delivering decarbonisation on behalf of government
and we go into a lot of schools and you're absolutely
right, the children know it's not just about
switching off lights but they understand whether
they're using an S -source heat pump, a ground
source heat pump, they've been involved in the
project from the start and they're really curious
about all things energy. We make sure that when
we put an install in that we have No readable
meters. Yes, people to go to people to go and
have a look out so they can see on a real -time
basis Actually, what the energy is being generated
which obviously like brings it to life, you know
Another thing we do, you know, we have an app
which anyone can go on and see the data that's
being generated So, you know, it's about bringing
it to life and and you know, and as you say,
yeah people's love Yeah, and taking those messages
and they take those messages home and I know
that one child said to me that uh He was constantly
telling his sister off because she didn't open
the curtains and let the daylight in and preferred
to put her light on because he was going around
the house switching off the light. They explain
things in the simplest terms, sometimes the simplest
terms are the best. Okay, so from your experience,
hugely experienced in this area and seeing local
action, passion translated into action, into
something really tangible, making a difference
and you've actually found a way to make money
out of this as well and put back into the community.
But from your experience, do you think local
action is more powerful than national climate
policy? Or do we need both of those working together?
We all obviously need both of them working together
and actually it's really positive to see the
movements of the new or the newish Labour government
who have been really keen. on community energy
more so than previous governments. And the recent
local power plant, they committed a billion pounds
towards community energy, which is huge. And
there was about a thousand community groups,
community energy organizations they want to support.
That's fantastic. For me and for anyone who's
involved with community energy, the benefit of
community energy is being able to get stuck into
local level action. It's been able to make a
difference in your area and on climate change.
If national government can create an environment
where that's even easier. then I think that can
only be a good thing. It's only going to be better
for that because it would mean that more people
can get involved with community energy and more
people can direct their energy on this issue,
on climate change, because a lot of it's all
out there, isn't it? It's all China and America,
global warming, those kind of things. They say,
actually, what can I do in my area? I feel a
bit powerless, perhaps. So community energy allows
you the opportunity to do that. the more that
national government realises that and makes it
easier for community energy to flourish then
the more that people will be able to direct their
passion into it. Literally putting the power
back into the communities and because we see
such kind of doom stories don't we when we look
at the news in terms of what's happening with
climate emergency but actually this is giving
people the ability to make a difference in that
way. Now, you've obviously got the knowledge,
you've got the skills there in Manchester, and
there are other community energy projects. But
if every town in the UK had what you have there,
and I appreciate that you want to grow and expand
and there's obviously always more work and more
schools you want to work with. But if every town
in the UK had a community energy group like yours,
What difference do you think that would make?
I think it would make a huge difference in terms
of people being engaged with their local area,
being engaged with the community by financially
having a stake in assets that are in the community.
It means you're part of that community, it means
you're deepening your roots there and I think
if everyone had that in every town then I think
that would be a fantastic benefit to them because
it would allow them, you know, it would give
them more say and more interest in that. area
more so than you do at the moment because at
the moment you know you live somewhere things
happen in your schools go up roads roads and
roads and decisions are made without you necessarily
feeling like you're part of it whereas if you
can invest in physical assets to go on a school
and let's say for instance the policy did change
the policy arena did change and actually you
were able to benefit from local you know a large
renewable scheme that was nearby you would actually
feel it financially as well. I think that the
more we see it and the more mainstream it becomes,
I think the benefits to people would start becoming
actually not just about being you know empowered,
it would about becoming financially you'd have
people to benefit from that from there, from
seeing the difference on the energy bills but
for our members the benefit is getting that return
on investment which they do year on year. Are
you finding that people and groups around the
country or just people just testing the water
coming to you and asking you for advice? picking
your brains. We have a lot of people come to
us and just sort of, you know, asking for advice
and things like that. I mean, I think it's changed
now, you know, we're 10 years old, 10 years ago,
you know, solar panels on schools was probably
quite novel at the time. Solar panels on a lot
of places, a lot of buildings, there's a huge
energy around, there's a huge industry around
it. Solar panels are a lot cheaper for a start,
which makes things easier and it's just a lot
more mainstream. So people do kind of understand
the policy and the area. So it's less about that.
It's more so about people asking questions about...
how to make it happen in their area, which obviously
we're happy to help them. And what kind of advice
do you ask? For example, what kind of question
would somebody ask and what kind of advice would
you offer? One thing I would advise people to
do, whoever asks us about community energy, because
we have solar panels on 10, 11, as of a couple
of months ago, in the Greater Manchester area,
which is a huge geographical area, 3 million
people in there. 1000 schools in Manchester.
So one thing I would say to people is that, you
know, it is possible and they can do it and you
can go and do it in any area of the UK. And there
are support mechanisms out there. You know, community
is an organization called Community Energy England,
and they are the set the lead and set to support
for community energy across across England and
not be similar in any other countries in the
United Kingdom. They are they have a huge amount
of support available to anyone who wants to get
involved in community energy. They facilitate
the Community Energy Fund which is soon to be
the Great British Energy Fund so that and we
as we as an organization have benefited from
that so you know there's funding there for people
who want to help who who wants to start Community
Energy and Community Energy England and the government
now are really keen to see it grow so we always
say to people look if you're interested in it
go online have a little look find something that
you know if there's not something already in
your area which there may already be have a think
about just doing something yourself you know
it's so empowering to be able to say that you
know you've really made a difference in your
area. So there is support and there is a lot
of obviously learning that over the last decade
as you say that you have you're willing to share
as other groups are. Absolutely we've been in
the game for 10 years you learn a lot over that
time we're always keen to share that information
we do that on our website we do that through
blog posts and through videos whenever we can
we're always trying to communicate those stories.
as well so have a little look for GMCR Great
Manchester Community Renewables on social media
and online and people would be able to find a
bit of information about what we do there's some
nice videos on there and so you know blog posts
about what community energy is and how it's looking.
could start something themselves. Superb so look
at your website and pick your brains and see
what's been done but also be ambitious for your
own area too and that's really good advice to
look what's what's happening already and if there
isn't how about starting something up because
that's exactly what you did a decade ago and
have made such a success of it and are making
such a difference. Thank you to Tudor Baker who
from the Greater Manchester Community Renewables
Limited for joining us today. Don't forget to
subscribe to our podcast channels and email us
with your views and news at podcast at salixfinance
.co .uk. Thank you once again to Tudor. Thank
you. Thank you very much. You've been listening
to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from
Salix. For more information about our work and
to find more content, please visit salixfinance
.co .uk forward slash podcasts.