WEBVTT 00:00:07.009 --> 00:00:10.529 You're listening to the Decarbonization Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.669 a podcast from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on 00:00:14.669 --> 00:00:17.129 Climate Change. Welcome to the Decarbonisation 00:00:17.129 --> 00:00:19.609 Dialogue. I'm Hannah Walker and I believe that 00:00:19.609 --> 00:00:21.789 the best way to communicate a message is by being 00:00:21.789 --> 00:00:23.929 passionate about what you are talking about. 00:00:24.269 --> 00:00:27.109 My guest today is Catherine Ross from the British 00:00:27.109 --> 00:00:30.489 Library. Katherine is a passionate environmentalist 00:00:30.489 --> 00:00:33.369 and an experienced project manager. She has worked 00:00:33.369 --> 00:00:35.590 as sustainability manager at the British Library 00:00:35.590 --> 00:00:39.270 since August 2023, which was the first time for 00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:42.130 a dedicated role focused on the library's own 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:44.929 operations, as well as its voice and influence. 00:00:45.390 --> 00:00:48.090 Before joining the British Library, she led much 00:00:48.090 --> 00:00:51.229 of the work towards net zero carbon in the Church 00:00:51.229 --> 00:00:53.689 of England's environment program. Catherine is 00:00:53.689 --> 00:00:56.250 responsible for developing the organisation's 00:00:56.250 --> 00:00:59.109 sustainability and climate change strategy. And 00:00:59.109 --> 00:01:02.130 this wide -ranging strategy focuses on four main 00:01:02.130 --> 00:01:04.849 priorities for action across the library, which 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:07.349 is our places, our purpose, our partnerships, 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.200 and embedded in our work. The British Library 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.319 is the UK's national library and it holds one 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.859 of the largest collections of printed material 00:01:16.859 --> 00:01:20.200 in the world featuring almost every language 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:22.819 and cares for, and I'm sure Catherine will correct 00:01:22.819 --> 00:01:27.140 me if I'm wrong, cares for more than 170 million 00:01:27.140 --> 00:01:31.480 items from books, maps, stamps to sound recordings 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:35.359 and even a copy I believe of every UK domain 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:39.620 website. So welcome to Catherine. Good to have 00:01:39.620 --> 00:01:41.239 you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.219 me. Catherine, can we start with just a little 00:01:44.219 --> 00:01:46.560 bit about yourself and how your career has developed 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.579 and how you got to where you are today? Yeah, 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:51.400 so like a lot of people, that's not a straight 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:55.840 line for me. The environment is always in the 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.099 background for as long as I can remember. But 00:01:58.099 --> 00:02:01.099 really when I started my family, that was when 00:02:01.099 --> 00:02:04.319 I started thinking more and more about the environment. 00:02:05.279 --> 00:02:10.020 So my youngest is 22 now. When she was a baby, 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.280 I started thinking about all of those newspaper 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.719 headlines about 2050, and you realize, well, 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:17.479 hang on, that's when my kids are going to be 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:22.020 adults. So I started doing far more at home in 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:24.740 terms of our own environmental impact and then 00:02:24.740 --> 00:02:26.759 I started doing loads in the community and for 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.259 lots of years I volunteered in my community for 00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:32.939 a local environmental charity and then over time 00:02:32.939 --> 00:02:35.360 I was able to move my career over. So I've worked 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:37.400 in the charity sector for a long time but for 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.319 about the last eight years I've worked on specifically 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.800 environmental roles. Just trying to find a way 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:47.280 to play my part in being a solution to the problems 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.909 that we face. We're talking today about climate 00:02:49.909 --> 00:02:53.810 change and sustainability and your work with 00:02:53.810 --> 00:02:56.770 the British Library. Can you tell us what does 00:02:56.770 --> 00:02:59.389 sustainability mean in the context of a national 00:02:59.389 --> 00:03:01.889 library? What does it mean? So it's worth, I 00:03:01.889 --> 00:03:03.969 think, understanding, as you said, we've got 00:03:04.110 --> 00:03:07.689 over 170 million items. Within that, we've got 00:03:07.689 --> 00:03:10.770 so many of our collections which can speak to 00:03:10.770 --> 00:03:12.990 climate change and nature loss. So obviously 00:03:12.990 --> 00:03:14.689 we've got our science collection, but we've also 00:03:14.689 --> 00:03:17.250 got maps, we've got weather records, we've got 00:03:17.250 --> 00:03:19.770 all of history, we've got nature recordings, 00:03:20.050 --> 00:03:23.110 eco -fiction, we've got papers, conference papers 00:03:23.110 --> 00:03:25.330 of climate scientists, political manifestos. 00:03:25.889 --> 00:03:28.689 So we have all of this knowledge and that knowledge 00:03:28.689 --> 00:03:33.069 can really be brought to bear on issues around 00:03:33.069 --> 00:03:35.900 climate change. sustainability, nature loss. 00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:39.379 And then in terms of our own estate, we've got 00:03:39.379 --> 00:03:42.080 two sites. We've got our big London site, which 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:44.180 is kind of the library that a lot of people know, 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.280 one and a half million visitors a year. And then 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:50.020 up in Yorkshire, we've got our big storage site 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:53.460 where 80 % of the collection is kept. So in terms 00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:55.939 of when we think about sustainability, it's kind 00:03:55.939 --> 00:03:59.240 of those two different halves. It's how can we 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.060 open up access to our collection? and all of 00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:04.740 that knowledge that we hold in order to help 00:04:04.740 --> 00:04:08.099 people find solutions to environmental problems. 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:11.039 And that might be businesses that want to start 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.340 a green business. That might be researchers wanting 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:16.180 to do their PhD in an area in this area. That 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:18.779 might be an activist who wants to think about 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:20.740 how to do it to do a campaign. It might be a 00:04:20.740 --> 00:04:22.660 school teacher that wants to bring their school 00:04:22.660 --> 00:04:24.660 to come and learn about sustainability. So there's 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:26.660 that side. How do we use our collection? And 00:04:26.660 --> 00:04:29.439 then the other side is our own impact. We have 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.939 energies around our buildings. We have transport. 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:35.379 We use materials. We have water. What can we 00:04:35.379 --> 00:04:39.860 do to reduce our own impact? And I think at the 00:04:39.860 --> 00:04:44.519 British Library, we naturally think ahead because 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.699 our role is to look after all that knowledge 00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:50.660 for posterity. So we think a long way ahead. 00:04:50.779 --> 00:04:53.060 We make decisions a long way ahead. And then 00:04:53.060 --> 00:04:55.000 as soon as you start thinking into the future 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:57.779 in that way, you absolutely see the climate crisis 00:04:57.779 --> 00:05:00.259 coming. It's already impacting us, but we know 00:05:00.259 --> 00:05:02.560 that in the time scale that we are tasked with 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:05.100 looking after the collection, the climate crisis 00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:07.160 is only getting worse and the impact it's having 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:09.519 is getting worse both on us and our collection, 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:12.000 but also in our communities and on the world 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.160 as a whole. So our sustainability strategy is 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.500 kind of reflecting our determination as the National 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:22.750 Library to play our part. You mentioned your 00:05:22.750 --> 00:05:25.750 career and you said it was not like many of us, 00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:28.449 it's not a straight line, it never is, but you've 00:05:28.449 --> 00:05:30.170 obviously got this experience and background 00:05:30.170 --> 00:05:32.949 with the Church of England and working there 00:05:32.949 --> 00:05:36.550 on the Net Zero initiative. What lessons do you 00:05:36.550 --> 00:05:41.110 think you've brought from there to the role that 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:43.209 you're playing at the British Library? They're 00:05:43.209 --> 00:05:45.889 very, very different organizations. There's always 00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:47.329 things you can take from one to another. And 00:05:47.329 --> 00:05:49.569 I would say the main thing was just about engagement, 00:05:49.750 --> 00:05:52.069 engagement, engagement, engagement, talking, 00:05:52.790 --> 00:05:55.870 training, communications, looking for champions 00:05:55.870 --> 00:06:00.110 and supporting those champions. And then Church 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:02.170 of England obviously is a large and complicated 00:06:02.170 --> 00:06:06.250 organization. So trying to find where are those 00:06:06.250 --> 00:06:09.290 points where you can have some influence. So 00:06:09.290 --> 00:06:11.819 for example, when I was at the CV, We did a lot 00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:13.819 of work updating the rules that set out what 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:15.740 changes you could make in church buildings to 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:18.360 try and help achieve net zero carbon. Here at 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.699 the British Library I've done work getting sustainability 00:06:21.699 --> 00:06:24.279 to be part of our business case process so it's 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:25.920 looking at where are those kind of points of 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:29.410 influence that you can have. which then embed 00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:32.410 sustainability in decisions going forward. And 00:06:32.410 --> 00:06:34.149 I really want to talk about that influence and 00:06:34.149 --> 00:06:36.670 that voice that you have in a moment. But going 00:06:36.670 --> 00:06:39.230 back to your experience, so the Church of England 00:06:39.230 --> 00:06:42.550 is responsible for huge estates, obviously, ranging 00:06:42.550 --> 00:06:45.370 from cathedrals to churches, but also housing 00:06:45.370 --> 00:06:47.209 and small, small housing, smaller buildings. 00:06:47.449 --> 00:06:49.449 And of course, now, as you say, we talk about 00:06:49.449 --> 00:06:51.810 these, you know, millions of items that you're 00:06:51.810 --> 00:06:55.550 responsible for and the energy and the resource. 00:06:55.819 --> 00:06:57.899 that goes into that, because you have, as you 00:06:57.899 --> 00:07:01.339 say, you have big sites, but we don't all think 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:05.259 about what practically it means, for example, 00:07:05.420 --> 00:07:09.779 in terms of managing that precious material that 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:12.860 you have and those archives, whether they're 00:07:12.860 --> 00:07:16.920 paper archives, digital archives, and the environment. 00:07:17.019 --> 00:07:19.879 What kind of things are you balancing? What kind 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:21.860 of technologies are you balancing in all of that? 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:24.600 So in terms of where our own carbon emissions 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:28.529 come from, Last year, our direct carbon emissions 00:07:28.529 --> 00:07:31.389 were a little bit under 7 ,000 tonnes of carbon 00:07:31.389 --> 00:07:34.649 dioxide equivalent. The vast majority of that 00:07:34.649 --> 00:07:38.069 is electricity and gas being used to heat, cool, 00:07:38.589 --> 00:07:42.389 humidify, dehumidify our buildings. Our collection 00:07:42.389 --> 00:07:44.689 needs to be kept in specific conditions for temperature 00:07:44.689 --> 00:07:46.930 and humidity in order to make sure that we're 00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:48.329 not damaging that collection, that we're keeping 00:07:48.329 --> 00:07:52.430 it safe over time. So that requires gas and electricity 00:07:52.430 --> 00:07:54.970 to run the buildings and maintain those collections. 00:07:56.050 --> 00:07:58.769 And then we also, for the first time last year, 00:07:58.769 --> 00:08:01.370 started to report our wider scope three, our 00:08:01.370 --> 00:08:03.470 supply chain emissions, and they were a little 00:08:03.470 --> 00:08:06.250 over double of our directs. So it was about 16 00:08:06.250 --> 00:08:10.069 ,000 tons of that supply chain emissions. So 00:08:10.069 --> 00:08:13.470 in terms of what we can do there, that's about 00:08:13.470 --> 00:08:17.269 embedding sustainability in our capital projects. 00:08:17.269 --> 00:08:19.970 And it's about working with our suppliers, trying 00:08:19.970 --> 00:08:23.040 to use our influence with our supply chain to 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:26.480 try and make sure that they are reducing their 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.100 carbon emissions as well as us producing ours. 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.059 I think about physical and digital, physical 00:08:32.059 --> 00:08:35.080 books and newspapers and magazines, I think it's 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.620 more apparent what their impact is because we 00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:40.259 have to build storage buildings and keep those 00:08:40.259 --> 00:08:44.580 items in those buildings heated and cooled. digital 00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:46.919 collection they also have an impact in a different 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:49.379 way. So we have a large amount of digital storage 00:08:49.379 --> 00:08:53.299 and that requires servers either on site or cloud 00:08:53.299 --> 00:08:56.000 and then over the lifetime remembering that we 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.899 need to keep those digital files also for posterity. 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:01.480 So over the lifetime of an item it might be several 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:03.840 different file formats and so there's some quite 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:05.860 naughty and complicated sort of trade -offs between 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:08.000 whether it's better or worse environmentally 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.750 to keep things physically or digitally. It is 00:09:11.750 --> 00:09:14.370 exceptionally complex isn't it when you when 00:09:14.370 --> 00:09:17.129 my colleagues I know visited your library and 00:09:17.129 --> 00:09:20.429 they met you and they just came back just in 00:09:20.429 --> 00:09:22.789 all really of that huge responsibility that you 00:09:22.789 --> 00:09:26.190 bear and keeping and treasuring these items that 00:09:26.190 --> 00:09:28.850 are so important and then thinking about the 00:09:28.850 --> 00:09:31.090 correct temperatures and correct ways of handling. 00:09:31.269 --> 00:09:33.990 You need to think all of the time about the environment 00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:37.029 and the impact that you're having. We're so grateful 00:09:37.029 --> 00:09:38.909 to have had the funding that we've had through 00:09:38.909 --> 00:09:41.190 the public sector decarbonisation scheme managed 00:09:41.190 --> 00:09:45.429 by CELICS that it's enabled us to implement new 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.129 technologies that we just could not have afforded 00:09:48.129 --> 00:09:50.470 to do otherwise. So I've put Boston Spa, we've 00:09:50.470 --> 00:09:51.889 got Groundsource Heat Pump now that's serving 00:09:51.889 --> 00:09:54.330 several buildings, A -Source Heat Pump serving 00:09:54.330 --> 00:09:56.029 several other buildings, solar panels on the 00:09:56.029 --> 00:10:00.889 roof and down here at St Pancras we've got one 00:10:00.889 --> 00:10:03.210 of the largest solar thermal installations in 00:10:03.210 --> 00:10:05.350 the country on our roof. Even though we're a 00:10:05.350 --> 00:10:07.169 grade one listed building, we were able to do 00:10:07.169 --> 00:10:10.309 that and also just more energy efficient lighting, 00:10:10.690 --> 00:10:13.090 energy efficient pumps and motors. We just couldn't 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:16.309 have done that work otherwise and those kind 00:10:16.309 --> 00:10:18.330 of projects are enabling us to look after the 00:10:18.330 --> 00:10:21.070 collection but in more low carbon ways. So going 00:10:21.070 --> 00:10:23.529 back to your voice because you were talking about 00:10:23.529 --> 00:10:26.289 your work at the Church of England and now obviously 00:10:26.289 --> 00:10:29.379 at the British Library, do you see institutions 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:32.220 like the British Library as kind of neutral spaces, 00:10:32.379 --> 00:10:34.299 or do you see that they have a responsibility 00:10:34.299 --> 00:10:38.259 to use their voice around climate? I would say 00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:42.519 it was both those things. We provide open, unjudgmental 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.740 access to our collection, to anyone, to everyone. 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:47.580 That is our role. Anybody can come to the British 00:10:47.580 --> 00:10:50.379 Library. It's free to become a reader. They can 00:10:50.379 --> 00:10:52.500 access our collection to research any issue, 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.100 whatever they wanted to research. But then we 00:10:55.100 --> 00:10:58.100 also know that We, like any library, we have 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:00.539 a really important role in trying to increase 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:02.820 what we call information literacy, which is people 00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:05.879 being able to find trusted sources of information 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.639 that they know that they can rely on and then 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.220 understand that information. And one part of 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:13.000 that work on information literacy is climate 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.340 literacy. So we want to be an organization like 00:11:16.340 --> 00:11:20.899 any library that is helping people find and understand 00:11:20.899 --> 00:11:23.720 reliable information. and in this particular 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.139 context in terms of the climate change obviously 00:11:26.139 --> 00:11:30.299 that means we recognize the issues and we want 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:32.720 to help people find reliable and strong information 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.080 to understand climate change, to understand climate 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:37.039 impacts, to understand sustainability, to understand 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.200 what they can do about it. Often what we try 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.700 and do is let our collection items do the talking. 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:46.080 So for example we recently had a display in our 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.840 entrance hall and we had maps there that showed 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.879 glacial retreat. or when we had our animals exhibition 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:57.159 there was a beautiful sound recording of a bird 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.639 which is now extinct and we hold that nature 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.940 recording in our collection so we can find collection 00:12:03.940 --> 00:12:06.179 items like that that tell this story in a very 00:12:06.179 --> 00:12:09.740 powerful way. And that has such impact doesn't 00:12:09.740 --> 00:12:12.720 it when you describe that extinct bird that you 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.019 can no longer hear and you come to the British 00:12:15.019 --> 00:12:17.889 Library and you You can hear it there, but it 00:12:17.889 --> 00:12:20.809 is no more. That's incredible impact, more than 00:12:20.809 --> 00:12:23.230 any words, really. And that messaging, and as 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:26.529 you say, you're providing that resource and that 00:12:26.529 --> 00:12:29.950 information, and it's how people use it and take 00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:34.110 it away. So you have all this information, but 00:12:34.110 --> 00:12:37.210 you also have your own sustainability strategies, 00:12:37.529 --> 00:12:39.929 which you've published. And a lot of work has 00:12:39.929 --> 00:12:42.360 obviously gone into that. if you could offer 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.360 some advice to anybody who's putting together 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.559 a sustainability strategy, because most businesses 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:48.960 have them now, or at least working on them, what 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.399 do you think the hardest part of writing a strategy 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.460 and obviously embedding it into your everyday 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:56.840 practices, what do you think the challenges are? 00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.159 Yeah, and it's interesting. So those are two 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:00.799 different things, right? Writing it and then 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:04.100 embedding it. They're both vital. They're both 00:13:04.100 --> 00:13:08.480 vital. In terms of writing it, what I did here 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:11.220 at the British Library, and I took a very similar 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:15.559 approach at the Church of England, is about taking 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:21.000 the time to co -create the document with my colleagues. 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.960 So it takes longer. What we did here was we formed 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.460 two working groups. One working group looked 00:13:27.460 --> 00:13:30.539 at our, what we call our places. So it was kind 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:32.200 of the bricks and mortar and our own environmental 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.740 impact and the other working group looked at 00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:37.059 our purposes. So that much kind of wider using 00:13:37.059 --> 00:13:40.029 our voice. thinking about how we deliver it through 00:13:40.029 --> 00:13:42.250 all of the activities of the library. Each of 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:44.389 those working groups had representatives from 00:13:44.389 --> 00:13:46.970 different departments around the library and 00:13:46.970 --> 00:13:49.929 I created like a template structure for the document 00:13:49.929 --> 00:13:52.629 but then they each wrote the section that they 00:13:52.629 --> 00:13:55.529 were the expert in and they engaged their teams 00:13:55.529 --> 00:13:57.149 in thinking about what the priorities were going 00:13:57.149 --> 00:13:59.809 to be and the actions were going to be. It takes 00:13:59.809 --> 00:14:02.090 longer to do it that way but it means that by 00:14:02.090 --> 00:14:05.360 the time the document is is written and signed 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.379 off. All of those teams have already been involved, 00:14:07.700 --> 00:14:09.000 they've already thought about it themselves, 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:10.519 they thought about what actions they want to 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.580 take and they've already started doing it. So 00:14:13.580 --> 00:14:15.840 we had teams already starting to implement actions 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.580 before the strategy was even signed off because 00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:19.860 they were like, oh this is something we can do 00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:22.440 in our area, let's just get on with it. I think 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:25.539 that kind of involvement process does take longer 00:14:25.539 --> 00:14:28.080 but I really believe that it's more powerful 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.919 and then it helps with that embedding. because 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:32.919 there's been that engagement. The other thing 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.120 I think which is really key, there's so much 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.899 in terms of embedding, but like training is really 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:39.519 important. So we've gone down the route of carbon 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.159 literacy training. So we offer that to our staff 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:45.379 now and we've achieved bronze accreditation as 00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:48.159 a carbon organization. We've made it part of 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.620 our induction. We have made it part of our business 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:52.639 case process. We've made it part of our procurement 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:57.159 process. It takes time, but what I'm trying to 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:00.269 gradually move towards is that sustainability 00:15:00.269 --> 00:15:03.570 is one of the things that's part of every decision 00:15:03.570 --> 00:15:06.129 that we take, that is on the table. You know, 00:15:06.129 --> 00:15:07.629 that we would always be thinking obviously about 00:15:07.629 --> 00:15:09.590 our budget, we'd always be thinking about risk, 00:15:09.669 --> 00:15:11.509 we'd always be thinking about the benefit for 00:15:11.509 --> 00:15:14.470 users, we'd always be thinking about any impact 00:15:14.470 --> 00:15:16.929 on staff, but that sustainability should be one 00:15:16.929 --> 00:15:19.629 of those factors that's become part of how we 00:15:19.629 --> 00:15:22.529 take decisions and I'd say we're moving towards 00:15:22.529 --> 00:15:25.370 that. We're definitely not there yet but we are 00:15:25.370 --> 00:15:27.809 moving towards that. Is there a, you say you're 00:15:27.809 --> 00:15:31.580 not there yet, Is there a yet? Is there an end 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:34.019 point for that or I guess it's kind of an ongoing 00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:37.000 process, that journey? I think it'll always be 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:38.500 an ongoing process, won't it? I don't think there 00:15:38.500 --> 00:15:40.100 would be anyone you would speak to who'd go, 00:15:40.179 --> 00:15:42.980 yeah, we finished. We finished, that's it, we're 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:45.419 sustainable now, job done. Yes, I mean that carbon 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:48.580 literacy, indeed we've done the very same thing 00:15:48.580 --> 00:15:51.879 at Salix and we've also had someone from the 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:53.840 Carbon Literary Trust on our podcast actually 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:55.860 to talk about the value of that and what that 00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:57.940 can bring to organizations and how that obviously 00:15:57.940 --> 00:16:01.279 can make a difference because of course you're 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:05.039 embedding this for the British Library and the 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.600 institution but of course all of that gets taken 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.779 home doesn't it by your team members, by all 00:16:10.779 --> 00:16:13.200 of those curators, by everybody who works at 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:16.039 the Library, whoever they are. It's very lovely 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.000 that you've invited me and I love to talk about 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.100 it but it's just worth understanding that what 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:21.799 we've achieved at the British Library has been 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.580 so many colleagues, so many colleagues in their 00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:27.700 own area. who really care about this, and they 00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:29.379 see the part that they can play, and then they're 00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:31.480 taking that forward. And I think the carbon literacy 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.639 training really helps with that as well. Because 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:38.100 if you've got someone who cares about the environment, 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.360 but they don't quite know what they could do, 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:43.500 then the carbon literacy training helps with 00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:46.419 that. And by the end of the day, each person 00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:49.139 who comes makes two pledges for action. And then 00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.139 over time, as people take forward those pledges 00:16:51.139 --> 00:16:53.740 for action, it has this really long lasting impact. 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:57.419 So when people visit, talking about your teams 00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:59.679 and the work that you're doing, and you've also 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.320 talked about how you are including visitors, 00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:05.779 people who have access to your collection. But 00:17:05.779 --> 00:17:10.180 do you think when you engage with members of 00:17:10.180 --> 00:17:12.720 the public, and I'm not talking about your supply 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.220 chain because that's obviously embedded, you 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:17.319 know, you're looking at where your supply, where 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.750 everything comes from. But do you think if you're 00:17:19.750 --> 00:17:22.490 visiting the British Library in any capacity 00:17:22.490 --> 00:17:25.150 to, whether it's to borrow a book or to listen 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:27.130 to a talk or whatever, do you think people are 00:17:27.130 --> 00:17:31.190 aware of this work generally? Or do you think 00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:34.950 they care about it? We haven't surveyed our own 00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:38.109 users, but there has been, there was a very big 00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:41.170 piece of work in the culture sector as a whole 00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:44.109 that showed that the majority of people that 00:17:44.109 --> 00:17:46.859 access cultural organisations do care and they 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:49.000 do expect those organisations to be taking action. 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.380 So my sense would be that our users would consider 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:55.940 this to be important. When they visit us, they 00:17:55.940 --> 00:18:00.720 would probably notice things like there are recycling 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.579 stations all around the building. They would 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:06.220 notice things like you can't buy a plastic bottle 00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:09.109 of water. and that we've got really good veggie 00:18:09.109 --> 00:18:11.390 and vegan options in the cafes. They would notice 00:18:11.390 --> 00:18:13.190 those kind of things. They might notice the cycle 00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:15.609 parking. They wouldn't notice things like, oh, 00:18:15.609 --> 00:18:17.390 you've got low -energy light bulbs. And they 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:19.230 shouldn't notice that, right? They shouldn't 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:23.230 know that we've got solar thermal on the roof 00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:25.589 because you can't see that from inside the building. 00:18:26.230 --> 00:18:30.210 In a way, you want all of that stuff to be invisible 00:18:30.210 --> 00:18:31.950 because it's just about doing the things you're 00:18:31.950 --> 00:18:34.009 already doing, but doing them in lower carbon 00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:39.680 ways. We have made a real effort to include it 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.200 more in things like our exhibitions. So we've 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.420 just recently had our unearthed exhibition, which 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:47.559 was about the power of gardening, and we aim 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:49.539 to make that our most sustainable exhibition 00:18:49.539 --> 00:18:52.059 ever. And then we have signages you came out 00:18:52.059 --> 00:18:55.240 of that exhibition that explained the sustainability 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.640 strategy. So in things like that, we have absolutely 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:00.500 aimed to tell the story. But in terms of someone 00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:02.019 just coming into our building, I hope they would 00:19:02.019 --> 00:19:03.759 just think they were in a beautiful building 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.910 filled with Filled with knowledge. Fantastic. 00:19:07.309 --> 00:19:10.130 If we came back and had this conversation, we 00:19:10.130 --> 00:19:11.890 did talk a little bit about timelines because 00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:14.670 this is something that is in our news. It's something 00:19:14.670 --> 00:19:17.809 that we've got various targets, you know, carbon 00:19:17.809 --> 00:19:21.529 targets, whether it's 2030, 2045, 2050. So, as 00:19:21.529 --> 00:19:24.329 you say, this is ongoing and we have to pay attention, 00:19:24.490 --> 00:19:27.329 but we have to pay attention now. But if we revisited 00:19:27.329 --> 00:19:29.990 this conversation in five years, what do you 00:19:29.990 --> 00:19:33.150 think success would look like at the British 00:19:33.150 --> 00:19:38.119 Library? Yeah, so as I said, in a way, it's a 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.019 lot about doing the things we're already doing, 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:43.220 but doing them more sustainably. So we'd be more 00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:45.720 energy efficient. We'd have even less waste. 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:50.559 We'd have less duplication. By then, our new 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.700 passive store will be open up at Boston Spa. 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.539 So this is our newest storage building on our 00:19:56.539 --> 00:19:58.500 Yorkshire site. We're building to passive house 00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:02.130 standards. So that will be open and we are including 00:20:02.130 --> 00:20:04.650 a viewing gallery in that building specifically 00:20:04.650 --> 00:20:06.910 so that people can come to site and they can 00:20:06.910 --> 00:20:09.589 see the work that we've done to create a really 00:20:09.589 --> 00:20:12.029 really energy efficient building that's got no 00:20:12.029 --> 00:20:14.470 active heating and cooling. You said five years 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:18.369 time? Yes. Five years time and I have to say 00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:22.250 subject to funding we are aiming to have significantly 00:20:22.250 --> 00:20:25.210 reduced our use of gas here in St Pancras so 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:29.579 we're designing replacement systems using air 00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:31.380 source heat pumps for heating and cooling, but 00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:33.220 whether we will have achieved that in five years' 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.740 time, I very much hope that we will. We are aiming 00:20:36.740 --> 00:20:39.680 to have new collection resources by then so that 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.480 people would find it even easier to find what 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.019 we have in that massive collection that we have, 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.039 that they could find the things that they wanted 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.480 in terms of climate change and nature loss, and 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.299 culturally, as we discussed earlier, that it 00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:56.190 would be just one part, a natural part of every 00:20:56.190 --> 00:20:58.450 decision that we take. Thank you very much to 00:20:58.450 --> 00:21:01.190 Catherine for explaining that and providing such 00:21:01.190 --> 00:21:03.930 insight. There can be no doubt that climate change 00:21:03.930 --> 00:21:06.269 is the biggest challenge of our time. Today we 00:21:06.269 --> 00:21:08.490 must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow 00:21:08.490 --> 00:21:11.069 global warming. Today we must act for tomorrow, 00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:13.329 adjusting our lifestyles to current and future 00:21:13.329 --> 00:21:15.940 impacts of climate change. Today we must use 00:21:15.940 --> 00:21:18.480 our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.920 commitments. Today we work for tomorrow's world. 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:23.440 Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast channels 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.460 and please do email us. We're always interested 00:21:25.460 --> 00:21:28.819 in your views at podcast at salixfinance .co 00:21:28.819 --> 00:21:32.460 .uk. And thank you once again to Catherine Ross 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:34.359 from the British Library. Thank you for having 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.400 me. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.440 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.740 about our work and to find more content, please 00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:49.500 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.