WEBVTT 00:00:07.049 --> 00:00:10.550 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.849 a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation 00:00:14.849 --> 00:00:17.289 Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker and I believe that 00:00:17.289 --> 00:00:19.690 the best way to communicate a message is by being 00:00:19.690 --> 00:00:21.789 passionate about what you are talking about. 00:00:22.329 --> 00:00:25.420 Today I have... Chris Gilmore with me from Vector 00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:28.219 Sets. Chris Gilmore is more commonly known as 00:00:28.219 --> 00:00:31.100 a British sculptor based in Manchester, known 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:33.679 for his sculptures that use cardboard to create 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:37.399 everyday objects in life -size scale. Chris founded 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:40.619 Vector Sets with producer Tom Henderson to offer 00:00:40.619 --> 00:00:44.060 paper -based sustainable sets that are indistinguishable 00:00:44.060 --> 00:00:46.920 from conventional wooden sets. Vector Sets was 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:51.359 launched in 2022 and drawing on Chris's PhD research 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:53.960 and Tom's experience as a producer. vector sets 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:58.060 use cutting edge engineered paper boards which 00:00:58.060 --> 00:01:00.500 offer comparable strength to wood but are 80 00:01:00.500 --> 00:01:03.659 % lighter apparently and quicker to set up, easy 00:01:03.659 --> 00:01:07.540 to move and 100 % recyclable. Over the last year 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:10.500 these sets have been successfully used in programs 00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:14.560 for BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and more as well as adverts. 00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:18.040 So I can't wait to start talking to Chris. Welcome 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:21.299 to Chris. Hi, lovely to be here. Thank you. Big 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:23.719 question and it's a big question to start but 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:27.159 your inspiration as an artist and sculptor and 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:29.180 it'd be nice also to talk about your heroes because 00:01:29.180 --> 00:01:32.599 I know Anish Kapoor, Andy Goldsworthy, Bill Woodrow, 00:01:32.780 --> 00:01:34.620 those kind of people mean something to you but 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:37.459 let's start with you. Talk about where this inspiration 00:01:37.459 --> 00:01:40.480 comes from. Well I've always enjoyed making things 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:43.379 and then I studied art at school and then I was 00:01:43.379 --> 00:01:45.120 actually thinking of becoming an illustrator. 00:01:45.310 --> 00:01:46.950 just because I'd never really come across sculpture 00:01:46.950 --> 00:01:49.250 and then did a foundation course, tried sculpture 00:01:49.250 --> 00:01:52.409 and absolutely loved it and ended up doing a 00:01:52.409 --> 00:01:55.090 degree course in Bristol called Art in Social 00:01:55.090 --> 00:01:58.590 Context which was a fine art course but aimed 00:01:58.590 --> 00:02:01.569 at collaborative art and public art and socially 00:02:01.569 --> 00:02:04.909 engaged art. Through doing that I ended up doing 00:02:04.909 --> 00:02:07.430 a lot of workshops and working with community 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:10.710 groups and young people which meant finding materials 00:02:10.710 --> 00:02:12.590 that were cheap because there's never any funding 00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:16.229 and easy to use. and ideally ecological. I mean 00:02:16.229 --> 00:02:20.250 this was 30 odd years ago so the green movement 00:02:20.250 --> 00:02:23.569 was a bit less developed than it is now. I was 00:02:23.569 --> 00:02:25.870 already using wood in my own work and I was actually 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:29.129 using cardboard to make the templates and then 00:02:29.129 --> 00:02:31.069 realised that you could just use cardboard and 00:02:31.069 --> 00:02:34.030 not bother with the wood and it still had a really 00:02:34.030 --> 00:02:37.009 interesting effect. Started seeing an Italian 00:02:37.009 --> 00:02:40.379 lady who's now my wife. She'd invited me to Italy, 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:42.780 some friends of hers had invited me to take part 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:46.319 in a show. I only had a few days so I made a 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.439 self -portrait of myself on a Vespa in cardboard 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:52.780 and that went to the exhibition and then through 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:55.800 various twists and turns I ended up getting invited 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:58.819 to work with a gallery in Padua. By this time 00:02:58.819 --> 00:03:01.199 I'd moved to Italy and then I spent the next 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:05.360 nearly 30 years as a fine art sculptor working 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:07.639 with cardboard. It started from a kind of interest 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:11.300 in the material. almost from its tactile quality 00:03:11.300 --> 00:03:14.060 that it was just a nice thing to work with. And 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:16.460 then the more I got into it, the more the kind 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:20.960 of meaning behind it and the ecological aspect 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:24.379 and the idea of commerce that's contained in 00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:27.060 packaging and things being shipped around. So 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:28.400 that's where the cardboard sculpture came from. 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:30.479 Then it became a research going on over the years 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.599 to find ways of doing things. You mentioned the 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:36.319 wheelchair at the start. That was part of a series 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:39.270 that included some bicycles. And it took about 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:41.289 three years of research to work out how to make 00:03:41.289 --> 00:03:42.969 the spokes out of paper, how to make the chains 00:03:42.969 --> 00:03:45.370 and the bicycle, how to make them stand up. So 00:03:45.370 --> 00:03:49.229 as well as it being a sculptural artistic work, 00:03:49.370 --> 00:03:51.289 there's also a lot of technical thinking behind 00:03:51.289 --> 00:03:54.409 it, how to use the different materials. And that's 00:03:54.409 --> 00:03:57.490 how my little cardboard developed. So those large, 00:03:57.610 --> 00:03:59.710 we'll talk about the sculpture for a moment, 00:03:59.789 --> 00:04:01.930 those large pieces that you've got, I mean, I 00:04:01.930 --> 00:04:04.310 would think there was a piano that was suspended. 00:04:04.930 --> 00:04:07.669 In a space and then you'll see as you say the 00:04:07.669 --> 00:04:10.669 wheelchair how long does it take you for example 00:04:10.669 --> 00:04:14.110 to make that fear 500 out of cardboard because 00:04:14.110 --> 00:04:16.209 I've studied and studied and looked at these 00:04:16.209 --> 00:04:18.250 sculptures and they're the detail and you've 00:04:18.250 --> 00:04:20.769 just said it takes you a while to source those 00:04:20.769 --> 00:04:22.910 materials these aren't just couple boxes are 00:04:22.910 --> 00:04:26.790 they that we use for our. No they're they are 00:04:26.790 --> 00:04:29.980 literally couple boxes. The question gets asked 00:04:29.980 --> 00:04:31.720 every time. Yes, they are all made of cardboard. 00:04:31.819 --> 00:04:33.639 It's just cardboard and glue. That was the discipline 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:35.360 of the work. There was only ever cardboard and 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.300 glue. It's not like paper mache. They're not 00:04:37.300 --> 00:04:38.899 molded. It's just cardboard boxes that are cut 00:04:38.899 --> 00:04:41.939 up and glued together. Cardboard does have this 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:44.879 malleable quality that you can shape it in a 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.240 way that you can't with thick card or paper. 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:50.439 It'll just crumble, but corrugated cardboard 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:53.939 will kind of bend in a different way. When I 00:04:53.939 --> 00:04:57.339 was working completely on the sculpture, we would 00:04:57.339 --> 00:05:02.040 do... maybe five or six art fairs a year around 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.519 Europe, around Italy, in Miami, in New York, 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:09.120 London. So I would have generally one big piece 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:11.660 at each of those and then other smaller pieces 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:14.019 like the guitars and typewriters and things. 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:17.040 So it was a very much full -time job. But the 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.800 cars generally take about three months or so. 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:23.079 I mean, a lot quicker than wood or marble. Are 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:26.360 you working on your own in the studio? Generally, 00:05:26.459 --> 00:05:29.600 I had a couple of assistants. prepare things. 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.759 But I lived in a town called Udine in northeast 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:35.879 Italy, it's between Venice and Trieste, and it's 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:38.660 a lovely little town. On Friday nights, all the 00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:40.899 shops in the centre put their recycling out, 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:43.819 so I would go around on a Friday night and load 00:05:43.819 --> 00:05:46.819 up on cardboard boxes. That's kind of part of 00:05:46.819 --> 00:05:49.980 the work, so the boxes are left, you'll see the 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:53.079 labels and tickets and bits of tape and things, 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:55.939 and it's all the memory of the box and what was 00:05:55.939 --> 00:05:59.259 in it. So sometimes there's little games being 00:05:59.259 --> 00:06:02.379 played the thing that was in the box turning 00:06:02.379 --> 00:06:04.779 into the object that is made of and this kind 00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:09.500 of stuff. Okay. So those materials are so discarded, 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:11.860 aren't they? We don't think of them. And there's 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:14.060 the cardboard boxes that you picked up from, 00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:17.420 but there's also, of course, a lot of other kinds 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:20.120 of packaging, isn't there, today? Did you ever 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:21.899 make, you're making use of, like, when you go 00:06:21.899 --> 00:06:23.680 to the supermarket, for example, today we talk 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.259 a lot, don't we, about unnecessary packaging 00:06:26.259 --> 00:06:29.720 around the items that we buy? The first show 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.699 that had the piano in, there was a second part 00:06:32.699 --> 00:06:34.120 of that show, which you don't really see so much 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.459 in the photos, but they were little cathedrals 00:06:37.459 --> 00:06:41.139 made of packaging. So they were cornflakes boxes 00:06:41.139 --> 00:06:44.120 and cigarette boxes. And there was one was made 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:46.620 from packageurex, which was the image rights 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:49.139 were bought by the young Catholics of Germany, 00:06:49.139 --> 00:06:51.800 and they used it as an advertising campaign. 00:06:52.379 --> 00:06:55.420 But my thinking with that was you've got so much 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:58.420 money and energy and creativity invested in advertising 00:06:58.420 --> 00:07:02.079 to sell us things in a way that that investment 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:06.040 was in faith and creating beautiful things back 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:09.139 in the past. Yeah, as you say, it's a material 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:11.680 that's discarded and you get these Amazon boxes 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.259 or you've got the packaging that you've taken 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:15.560 things out of at home and you've got to get rid 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.360 of it and take the paper recycling down. It's 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:19.639 a nuisance and it's something that's present 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:22.220 but you don't really think about it. I was fascinated 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:24.800 with the details of things. I'd look into the 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.000 extreme details of how the engine was on the 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:29.579 car or how the keys worked for the typewriter. 00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:31.639 I just like taking things apart and seeing how 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:35.420 they work. But it created this reaction, which 00:07:35.420 --> 00:07:38.079 is amazing. I've always loved this. So there's 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:41.019 a coffee pot, a mocha. You know, those kind of 00:07:41.019 --> 00:07:43.360 hexagonal, aluminium things are made from those. 00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:46.360 And everybody in Italy's got one. Everybody knows 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.360 it. Every house has got one. Used every day. 00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:51.620 But because it was made in cardboard, people 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:53.459 would look at it. Oh, look, it's got the screw 00:07:53.459 --> 00:07:54.879 and it's got the little valve. Look at the handle. 00:07:55.310 --> 00:07:56.970 and they were seeing something that they see 00:07:56.970 --> 00:08:00.050 every day in a new way yes yes they were observing 00:08:00.050 --> 00:08:02.730 details that they would never you can't you don't 00:08:02.730 --> 00:08:06.069 pick up the teapot oh look yes but because it's 00:08:06.069 --> 00:08:07.949 translated into this other material because there's 00:08:07.949 --> 00:08:10.199 this it's almost like a drawing that highlights 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:13.759 details and it gives us a new new eyes a new 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:15.480 way of looking a new vision a new way of looking 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:17.620 at something that as you say is a normal household 00:08:17.620 --> 00:08:20.240 object and in certainly in terms of that packaging 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.480 it's spring making something beautiful out of 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:24.560 something that we might otherwise kind of throw 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.560 away and just for a moment the so you mentioned 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:29.720 being socially engaged and being involved in 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.980 workshops and that was very much I think um ingrained 00:08:32.980 --> 00:08:36.759 at art school wasn't it and that that sense that 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:39.490 you've got to be involved in the community or 00:08:39.490 --> 00:08:42.250 pay something back. Do you think that that was 00:08:42.250 --> 00:08:45.169 ingrained very early on and has had an influence 00:08:45.169 --> 00:08:47.330 on the way you've set up vector sets and now 00:08:47.330 --> 00:08:48.730 what you're doing? Because you've moved from 00:08:48.730 --> 00:08:51.669 creating these amazing sculptures that are beautiful 00:08:51.669 --> 00:08:55.210 items to still creating beautiful items but they're 00:08:55.210 --> 00:08:59.470 being used on film sets. There's a lot of questions 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:01.129 there but if you could tell us a little bit about 00:09:01.129 --> 00:09:04.029 vector sets and where that idea comes from and 00:09:04.029 --> 00:09:07.049 does that take you back to that idea that we 00:09:07.049 --> 00:09:09.909 need to be Because, I mean, climate change is 00:09:09.909 --> 00:09:12.129 not new. We've been talking about sustainability, 00:09:12.309 --> 00:09:14.090 we've been talking about climate change for years. 00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:16.169 And even back then it might not have been spoken 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:18.429 about as much, but it certainly has been on the 00:09:18.429 --> 00:09:20.289 agenda. So if you could tell us a little bit 00:09:20.289 --> 00:09:23.429 about your thinking behind vector sets and how 00:09:23.429 --> 00:09:27.190 that initial care and social responsibility is 00:09:27.190 --> 00:09:31.710 kind of built into that. So when I was a teenager, 00:09:31.870 --> 00:09:34.129 I was very passionate about people being involved 00:09:34.129 --> 00:09:36.809 in art. I think I felt there was a lot of elitism 00:09:36.809 --> 00:09:39.750 in galleries. I was in Manchester, we'd go to 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:42.669 London, you'd go around, you know, the big name 00:09:42.669 --> 00:09:45.990 galleries and it was always very frosty and this 00:09:45.990 --> 00:09:48.590 is for, you know, people that are like you and 00:09:48.590 --> 00:09:52.970 I felt that creativity and imagination and making 00:09:52.970 --> 00:09:56.129 beautiful things should be for everyone. So I... 00:09:56.169 --> 00:09:58.769 was really excited to do the course that I did 00:09:58.769 --> 00:10:00.870 at Bristol because it was about that kind of 00:10:00.870 --> 00:10:03.450 engagement and letting people bring out the creativity 00:10:03.450 --> 00:10:05.250 and getting people involved and making things 00:10:05.250 --> 00:10:08.049 and it wasn't fine art, it wasn't, it didn't 00:10:08.049 --> 00:10:10.409 need to be perfect, it was about the process 00:10:10.409 --> 00:10:12.929 and about getting people involved. I don't think 00:10:12.929 --> 00:10:16.070 there was any particular ecological basis to 00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:17.809 it at the time using cardboard, it was just, 00:10:17.809 --> 00:10:19.809 it was free and it was easy to use and you could 00:10:19.809 --> 00:10:21.409 use it with children, you could use it with disabled 00:10:21.409 --> 00:10:23.629 people and you could use it with anyone, it was 00:10:23.629 --> 00:10:26.250 easy to get hold of. And I think also it's not 00:10:26.250 --> 00:10:29.470 a fancy material. I think if you'd gone in with 00:10:29.470 --> 00:10:32.529 fine art materials, with paints or with serious 00:10:32.529 --> 00:10:35.190 art stuff, then people aren't anxious about it. 00:10:35.450 --> 00:10:37.330 Whereas this is a cardboard box, you make a mistake 00:10:37.330 --> 00:10:39.490 where you get a cardboard box. So it was that 00:10:39.490 --> 00:10:41.830 accessibility that interested me. Through the 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:43.870 years, it's always been brought up, is it ecological 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.669 art? Are you recycling these things? I would 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:48.350 always stop people and say, it's not recycling, 00:10:48.490 --> 00:10:49.789 because recycling is where you take the paper 00:10:49.789 --> 00:10:52.049 and you turn it back to pulp. You make new paper 00:10:52.049 --> 00:10:53.409 and it's used for something else. This is an 00:10:53.409 --> 00:10:55.350 interruption. It's taking the material, reusing 00:10:55.350 --> 00:10:58.570 it, and it's transforming it into something else. 00:10:58.629 --> 00:11:00.730 It's not really recycling. So the ecological 00:11:00.730 --> 00:11:05.149 side of it is asking a question rather than being 00:11:05.149 --> 00:11:09.110 political. And I think that's where I find myself 00:11:09.110 --> 00:11:11.049 with the question of sustainability with vector 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:14.340 sets. Vector sets... kind of started during the 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:16.820 lockdown. I had time on my hands, I'd been wanting 00:11:16.820 --> 00:11:20.519 to do a PhD for ages. I found a professor at 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:23.419 Lancaster, Stuart Walker, who was excited about 00:11:23.419 --> 00:11:25.279 the things I was talking about and he agreed 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.120 to supervise the supervision, supervise the PhD, 00:11:28.460 --> 00:11:31.159 sorry, started there during lockdown. I was originally 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.419 looking at museums and how you might use cardboard 00:11:33.419 --> 00:11:37.080 in museums to, like I said, with a mock, to show 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:40.139 things a different way and give a different perception 00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:42.639 to the objects that were there. And there was 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:45.159 a sustainability side to it. I've done a lot 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.000 of work with museums from the workshop side, 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.100 and they're always concerned about sustainability. 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:53.279 I think the Natural History Museum declared a 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:56.620 climate emergency six, seven years ago, and they 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.080 were well ahead of the curve on that. By chance, 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.899 at the end of the lockdown, I was invited to 00:12:02.899 --> 00:12:06.919 do an advert, to do the sets for an advert. And 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:08.720 I'd done advertising stuff before, which was 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:11.990 either explicitly cardboard. Christmas campaign 00:12:11.990 --> 00:12:13.830 for the post office which was made to look like 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:17.470 cardboard boxes or it was Because it's quick 00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:21.149 and cheap. So I've done some kind of London skylines 00:12:21.149 --> 00:12:23.690 in cardboard boxes, but this was the first time 00:12:23.690 --> 00:12:26.950 I'd done a Whole set for an advert just out of 00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:29.009 paper and it was he was kind of out of necessity 00:12:29.009 --> 00:12:30.929 Because it was hard to get wood at the end of 00:12:30.929 --> 00:12:32.850 the lockdown there were no carpenters available 00:12:32.850 --> 00:12:35.809 and this was a just a Quick and easy solution 00:12:35.809 --> 00:12:38.669 to get by but as we were doing one of the pieces 00:12:38.669 --> 00:12:41.840 that I've made was a lift And the day after I 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.399 was chatting with another art director, he said, 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.480 we just made a lift. What, a lift that goes up 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:48.720 and down? What are you talking about? No, it's 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.919 just the doors. The doors that slide. We did 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:54.460 the same thing, the sliding doors, but it cost 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:57.299 us £15 ,000. It took five guys to move it with 00:12:57.299 --> 00:12:59.460 a forklift and it was used for a day and then 00:12:59.460 --> 00:13:01.840 we scrapped it. Which really got me thinking 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.320 about the amount of waste in film and TV and 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:07.320 is, I mean, this is part of the research of the 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.940 BHT, is just the... horrendous way these things 00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:14.600 are done an advert they'll build a set takes 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:18.399 two or three days to build it and you've got 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.860 MDF and wood and skirting board and plaster and 00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:23.860 window frames and carpet and all this kind of 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:25.860 stuff and then as soon as the shoot's finished 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:28.179 it's smashed up and it goes in the skip and it's 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:31.299 almost never recycled and I've had worked with 00:13:31.299 --> 00:13:34.159 people to try and recycle conventional sets and 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:36.669 it's really hard because Once they're painted 00:13:36.669 --> 00:13:38.629 and screwed together, you damage them taking 00:13:38.629 --> 00:13:40.929 the part. They're very hard to reuse. And unless 00:13:40.929 --> 00:13:42.710 somebody wants exactly that thing that you've 00:13:42.710 --> 00:13:44.269 just made, they're never going to use it, and 00:13:44.269 --> 00:13:46.389 then you've got to store it. It is a problem. 00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:49.450 And you also get lots of mixed materials. So 00:13:49.450 --> 00:13:52.529 there'll be styrene, and expanded foam, and plastics, 00:13:52.730 --> 00:13:55.549 and metal, and wood, and plywood, and everything 00:13:55.549 --> 00:13:58.149 mixing together. And it's going to landfill. 00:13:58.850 --> 00:14:00.529 BAFTA's wing of Albert that does the sustainability 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.230 stuff did a lot of work on this. They've just 00:14:03.230 --> 00:14:05.529 brought a new report. And they reckon it's a 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:08.669 minimum of a tonne for an advert of physical 00:14:08.669 --> 00:14:13.210 waste. And films can be hundreds, thousands and 00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:15.990 thousands. Which is going to landfill. Whilst 00:14:15.990 --> 00:14:19.070 the paper sets don't cover everything, just starting 00:14:19.070 --> 00:14:20.909 that conversation, asking that question, presenting 00:14:20.909 --> 00:14:23.389 the thing where you go, well, this scene that's 00:14:23.389 --> 00:14:25.970 going to be on screen for eight seconds, I understand 00:14:25.970 --> 00:14:28.029 you need a set, but does it have to be made of 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:32.080 MDF and plywood and timber? and take days and 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.840 involve real tiles stuck on, or could we print 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.139 the tiles and emboss them? Is there a way of 00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:39.179 doing it where you could use lighter materials, 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:40.840 lighter in the sense of physically lighter, but 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.620 also the ecological impact is lighter? And that 00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:47.200 was where the research started and then... We're 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.360 now using the material that we've branded as 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.259 vector board which is an engineered paper board 00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:54.919 which is, he says, like an MDF substituted really 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:56.759 tough. So this is the really tough material. 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.080 So for your sets, and I really want to talk about 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:00.559 some of these sets and the challenges around 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:03.179 that, the new material that you're using which 00:15:03.179 --> 00:15:05.879 as you say is like wood and is lighter but it 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:08.539 is 100 % recyclable, you're not collecting that 00:15:08.539 --> 00:15:11.179 from shops anymore on factories and street corners 00:15:11.179 --> 00:15:14.950 are you? I mean you're producing that, yes. Yeah, 00:15:14.950 --> 00:15:16.669 I know we've gone into quite technical materials, 00:15:16.990 --> 00:15:20.450 but it's an interesting thing because I'm known 00:15:20.450 --> 00:15:22.789 as a cardboard artist and I've been involved 00:15:22.789 --> 00:15:25.690 in things with Hewlett -Packard and with cardboard 00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:29.210 manufacturers and box factories and also just 00:15:29.210 --> 00:15:31.950 scrounging materials for workshops. I'd go to 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:33.389 a cardboard factory and ask them to have some 00:15:33.389 --> 00:15:34.750 materials, show them my work and they've always 00:15:34.750 --> 00:15:36.409 been really enthusiastic and really supportive. 00:15:37.190 --> 00:15:40.169 And this engineered board was around 20 years 00:15:40.169 --> 00:15:42.519 ago maybe. but was really expensive and really 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.399 hard to find. And now we've got a supplier that 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.500 manufactures it and it's amazing stuff. It's 00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:51.539 really strong. It's a reliable source, but it 00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:54.240 is quite a specific material. And so it's strong. 00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:56.860 It's an alternative and it's obviously cheaper 00:15:56.860 --> 00:16:01.360 for the production crews to use than, as you 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.059 say, using all these other materials that are 00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:06.059 not sustainable and just going to go into landfill, 00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:09.700 et cetera. What happens to your sets after they're 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:12.860 done with them? Do they come back to you? What 00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:16.419 happens to that? It depends on what they want 00:16:16.419 --> 00:16:20.720 to do with it. We have a large -ish factory in 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.480 Manchester. Just this year got our own printer 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.039 and cutting machine so we can manufacture in 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:27.299 -house. Previously we were working with other 00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:29.740 factories to make stuff. But we've always offered 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:33.100 to recycle the sets. So we work with a charity 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:35.889 in Manchester that recycles paper. So we'll take 00:16:35.889 --> 00:16:38.850 our stuff there to be recycled. I mean the board 00:16:38.850 --> 00:16:41.409 we're using is because it's it doesn't actually 00:16:41.409 --> 00:16:43.669 have very people say is it recycled board which 00:16:43.669 --> 00:16:46.990 it has a small amount of recycled material but 00:16:46.990 --> 00:16:49.110 it's mainly virgin fiber which makes it very 00:16:49.110 --> 00:16:51.149 strong but it also means it can be recycled up 00:16:51.149 --> 00:16:53.590 to seven times so it's a really high value fiber 00:16:53.590 --> 00:16:55.990 for recycling. This charity is very happy to 00:16:55.990 --> 00:16:58.669 have it. We will either reuse them so sometimes 00:16:58.669 --> 00:17:01.649 we'll repaint flats and make other things. or 00:17:01.649 --> 00:17:03.409 we give them to film schools or we give them 00:17:03.409 --> 00:17:06.049 to charities. We try and find a home for them 00:17:06.049 --> 00:17:09.549 and if they can't be rehomed then we'll recycle 00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:14.089 them. Sometimes the production itself will deal 00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:17.009 with that and it is always a cost for them to 00:17:17.009 --> 00:17:18.509 get skips in at the end of a production to get 00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:20.569 rid of it so if it's recyclable that brings their 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:22.609 cost down a little bit because put in the paper 00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:24.970 recycling. And certainly small things we've done 00:17:24.970 --> 00:17:27.250 they can literally be chopped up and put in with 00:17:27.250 --> 00:17:29.250 your paper waste so it makes life a lot easier. 00:17:29.500 --> 00:17:31.759 And in terms of where they're going, your sets, 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.059 are they now going all over the world or was 00:17:34.059 --> 00:17:37.519 this primarily the UK? How far afield do your 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:41.000 sets go? Mainly UK. We have done a lot abroad. 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.720 So we did the desks for the BBC for the Women's 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:48.960 World Cup when it was in Australia. They were 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:50.140 actually talking about making the desks together, 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.039 flying them out and we felt as a sustainable 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.339 company that was ridiculous. So we found a partner 00:17:55.339 --> 00:17:57.940 in Australia who we sent the designs, they made 00:17:57.940 --> 00:17:59.700 them up, delivered them. We've done that a few 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:01.460 times. I've worked with a factory in Barcelona, 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.720 one in Berlin. We've sort of hijacked the technology 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.680 that's used for point -of -sale displays and 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:10.900 for packaging. So the machinery is being used 00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:12.740 for other things. It needs a bit of tweaking 00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:14.599 and we work with the factories that we collaborate 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:16.359 with to get them to do the cutting because they're 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.019 making up more boxes. It's very ice -spec so 00:18:19.019 --> 00:18:20.619 we'll work with them to get the settings right 00:18:20.619 --> 00:18:22.859 and make sure the colours are printed correctly, 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:24.819 this kind of stuff. But we can use other factories 00:18:24.819 --> 00:18:28.579 abroad. So that's a real resource isn't it and 00:18:28.579 --> 00:18:32.380 also using, as you say, the technologies that 00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:34.299 already exist but using it in a different way. 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.500 Now the sets, you've mentioned Women's World 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:41.059 Cup and I know you've worked on many other sets. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.500 When you look at TV or when you go to the movies 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:47.900 and you see those films, are there any sets that 00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:51.559 you would particularly love to create out of 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:56.000 this material? We were invited to do a submarine 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.960 set a while back, which was in Czech Republic, 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.880 and we'd kind of lined the factory to do it there, 00:19:04.900 --> 00:19:06.500 and then there wasn't really enough time, and 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:09.200 because of logistics, it didn't happen. But I 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:10.619 think that'd be a really nice one for us, or 00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:14.730 a spaceship. But the stuffing palm would... His 00:19:14.730 --> 00:19:20.549 spaceship related space space franchise So that's 00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:23.269 it's sort of the holy trinity that for me. I've 00:19:23.269 --> 00:19:26.930 been on the blue beater. Yes worked on Star Wars 00:19:28.419 --> 00:19:30.420 I need to do Doctor Who now. So we've been speaking 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:32.339 to Doctor Who and hopefully they can... Fantastic. 00:19:32.619 --> 00:19:35.539 Oh, we'll be watching it. I mean, for the viewer... 00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:37.500 But for the normal, you know, for someone sitting 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:39.759 down to watch the small screen, you know, the 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.779 TV, would they notice? Do you expect people to 00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:48.940 notice or hopefully not? Yes, yes, yes. Is there 00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:51.279 any particular set that you would say or work 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.880 that you would say, no, that is not possible 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:56.140 or you can't do or it wouldn't do it justice 00:19:56.140 --> 00:19:58.740 or what for whatever reason? Absolutely, it doesn't 00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:00.960 do everything. And one of the issues we have 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.559 is that there are big construction companies 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.480 that make sets for film and TV. They use conventional 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.460 materials. Things we have to fight against when 00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:11.339 we start talking about paper sets or cardboard 00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:13.000 sets. Oh, it's going to be wobbly. It's going 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.299 to fall over and it's going to look like a rug, 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.200 right? I think there was a great story. So we 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:21.740 did an advert for JD Sports. It was a sports 00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:24.059 dressing room. They were filming down in London. 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.150 We went down and set it up. And I'd come down 00:20:27.150 --> 00:20:29.049 to get some lunch. And as I was at the lunch 00:20:29.049 --> 00:20:30.890 queue, somebody was talking, oh, it's a Dutch 00:20:30.890 --> 00:20:33.829 film crew, the director's here. He's not happy 00:20:33.829 --> 00:20:35.970 about these paper sets. He doesn't want to use 00:20:35.970 --> 00:20:39.329 paper sets. And I could kind of hear this muttering 00:20:39.329 --> 00:20:40.710 in the background that something had gone wrong. 00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:44.730 Went up to see them. And they were in the studio. 00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:46.750 So is there a problem with the paper sets here? 00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:47.990 I'm not sure about this paper set. I don't think 00:20:47.990 --> 00:20:49.849 it's going to work. So we're, you're sitting 00:20:49.849 --> 00:20:52.410 on it. So is this it? And they were actually 00:20:52.410 --> 00:20:56.440 in it. That is absolutely amazing. What a clever 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.519 way to show off just how incredible a cardboard 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.880 set can be. I'd love to hear more about their 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.680 reactions and more about your projects. But for 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.339 now, we're out of time. Please come back, Chris. 00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:10.099 Thank you so much for spending time with us today. 00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:13.279 Thank you to the incredible Chris Gilmore for 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.900 providing such insight. There can be no doubt 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:17.759 that climate change is the biggest challenge 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.480 of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.500 gas emissions to slow global warming. Today we 00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:26.140 must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:28.559 to current and future impacts of climate change. 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.920 Today we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.839 on our climate commitments. Today we work for 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.490 tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe to 00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:41.009 our podcast channels and email us at podcast 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.630 at salixfinance .co .uk and tell us your views 00:21:45.630 --> 00:21:49.410 and news. Thank you and big thanks once again 00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:52.369 to Chris Gilmore. Lovely to be here. You've been 00:21:52.369 --> 00:21:55.230 listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a 00:21:55.230 --> 00:21:58.519 podcast from Salix. 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