You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue,
a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue. I'm Hannah Walker and I believe that
the best way to communicate a message is by being
passionate about what you are talking about.
Today I have Vince Glover as my guest. Welcome
to Vince. As Group Director of Strategic Projects
at New City College in East London, Vince is
committed to embedding sustainability at the
heart of the College's growth and development.
It's his job to ensure that all strategic projects
and initiatives, whether related to infrastructure,
digital transformation or curriculum innovation,
prioritise environmental and societal responsibility.
Colleges and universities play a crucial role
in the Net Zero discussion through their importance,
though their importance can vary depending on
context, policy, research and other influences.
So let's get on and talk to Vince about his role
with the College and how it keeps sustainability
at its heart. Welcome, Vince. Thank you, Hannah.
Thanks for the introduction and thanks for inviting
me along to talk about sustainability today.
Really, really pleased to be here. Thank you.
Now Vince, let's start by talking about your
own career because you've had a career in education
and now you're working largely on climate issues.
How's your perspective on climate change evolved
over this time as well? in the education skills
vocational training sector for close for far
too long for close to 25 years now so quite a
long period of time actually and that's within
independent training providers fe colleges universities
sector skills councils all different types of
organizations really and actually one thing i've
seen over that that period of time is definitely
increased awareness about climate issues, but
also the thing you said at the top actually around
impact, influence, making a difference, making
a change and actually organisations becoming
so much more aware and wanted to be at the heart
really of that positive change and really making
a difference. So I've definitely seen that change
in the last quarter of a century in the education
sector. So sustainability really becoming much
more a strategic focus for organizations like
ourselves at New City College Group and people
individually and collectively really wanting
to make a difference. So that's definitely changed
from when I started my career back in the early
2000s. And I think that that's all gone in the
right direction. But we're definitely conscious
and a lot of providers are conscious. There's
so much more to do really around affecting positive
impact and change within the education sector.
Now, I know that you've been able to tap into
one of the funding programs that we deliver,
which is the public sector decarbonisation scheme,
which is all about replacing the fossil fuels
heating systems with heat pumps and all of those
kind of energy efficiency measures. Can you tell
us a little bit about the various campuses that
you've got and what kind of projects you've seen
in terms of the big kind of renewable and sustainable
work that's been going on at the college over
the last few years? Yeah, for sure. So one thing
I should say, just to set the context, in terms
of us as a college group, and so New City College
Group actually is a fast -growing, ever -expanding,
ever -evolving, complex organisation, and it
started as a relatively small college actually,
going back to 2015 -16, and has actually grown
exponentially over the last decade to become
a huge college group, one of the largest college
groups in the UK in fact. and now has 11 campuses,
so that they stretch across great swathes of
East London out into Essex. And so the campus
and the college estate actually have become ever
more complex over that period of time. And so
from a very small beginning has become quite
a huge organization in terms of square meterage
of campus space and all the associated impacts
on emissions and really the need for carbon reduction
as part of that. And so that's the context of
the group really, a big beast, close to 20 ,000
students every year in terms of our communities
that we serve, over 2 ,000 staff. And so you
can see the size of the organisation now and
the imperative, as you say, to make sure we're
focused on reducing emissions, carbon reduction,
thinking about the environment as we grow and
expand as an organisation. So absolutely, we've
tapped into the public sector decarbonisation.
dicarbonisation scheme from Salix and we've now
just completed our second project actually on
our second campus. So we started in 2024 by removing
all of our end -of -life gas boilers on our Redbridge
campus in Essex. and then moved on last year
to do a similar project at Epping and so that
was our second campus and we've seen really significant
reductions in gas consumption, over 90 % reduction
in gas consumption on both of those campuses
and obviously the associated reduction in carbon
emissions which has been fantastic and so both
of those projects were focused on removing gas
boilers and replacing them with state -of -the
-art Air source heat pumps which are obviously
much more energy efficient, much better for the
environment and have really had that fantastic
positive impact on the overall reduction of our
emissions across those two campuses. And then
we're planning a third and so we've got a third
part of the funding scenario to go at Ardley
Green out in Havering and so that's the third
part of our plan. to further reduce our emissions
across those key large college campuses. And
so we've been quite focused with our contractor
partners at each stage of the scheme on the best
possible solutions, the most energy efficient
solutions, and also the most effective solutions
for the long term. So actually our focus definitely
is not on how do we just... deliver funding,
how do we do the short -term need scenario, we
really are focused on something that's going
to last and be impactful for our students, our
staff, our communities, really for the much longer
term. So sustainable solutions really at the
heart of our focus on those campuses and that
particular piece of funding. So it's gone well,
it's gone really well actually in terms of the
reductions, but also I think in terms of the
comfort levels within the environments. campuses
and that's also quite key for us that actually
you know students are at the heart of our of
our business of what we do that that's our mission
really to serve them and to make sure we're providing
you know first first -class high quality learning
environments in which students can learn study
and achieve their qualifications. really important
in terms of the environment but also in terms
of our end users. It's a huge real estate, as
you say, various campuses and 20 ,000 students
and you have a responsibility there obviously
to educate but obviously you've also got this
interest in training and green skilling upskilling
and green skills for that generation and for
those students. Can you tell me a little bit
about that? and how you're looking to train the
workforce because there are various figures around
I think I read somewhere that to reach in for
London alone to reach net zero by 2030 we need
to improve skills and apparently we've got about
4 000 people working in retrofit in London at
the moment but we need about 60 000 So you've
got 20 ,000 students there at your college. What
are you doing to get these people skilled up
to take the jobs for the future, but also to
ensure that we can get those energy efficiency
measures installed? Well, I think you're absolutely
right Hannah. I think we've all seen as the demand
has increased and is increasing all the time
really for these types of skills. I think those
skills gaps become even more in focus really
in terms of you know how are we going to fill
those gaps with the workforce of the future it's
not i guess not even the future it's the workforce
of the here and now in terms of the demand for
some of these low carbon solutions so we've been
really focused on thinking about the next generation
of learning and skills and the types of facilities
that we that we need as an organization to make
sure we're we're filling those skills gaps with
the right types of individuals completely competent,
fully competent with all the skills and knowledge
that they need. And part of that has been investment
in, again, in our college campuses. We've invested
in low carbon skills labs. We've worked carefully
with manufacturers and employers to make sure
we've got cutting edge facilities, equipment,
all the latest equipment as it advances, you
know, month by month really now in terms of latest
technology to make sure we're training the workforce
of, you know, of the future with the right types
of skills and the right type of equipment. So
across our campus estate now we've got these
low carbon labs. and also critically as part
of that mix making sure we're providing the right
level of CPD to staff so actually we are then
equipping those individual students with the
right types of skills with the right kinds of
skill sets from people that actually have the
the very latest knowledge. and can deliver that
knowledge to them. So partly building those labs,
but also making sure that our own training resources
fully upscale to make sure we're meeting the
needs of all the different low carbon sectors.
So there's a huge piece of work. We were fortunate
enough to be recognized as a green gown award
winner last year. within the next generation
learning and skills category. So fantastic to
get recognition as a further education college
for all that fantastic work that goes into developing
those low -carbon skills courses and then delivering
them and then working with employers to make
sure we're getting people into employment at
the right time with the right skills. So yeah,
we see ourselves very much at the forefront of
the low -carbon skills revolution. But again,
we know there's a... back to the demand piece
and the data, we know there's a huge set of skills
gaps still to be filled and so it's definitely
an evolving picture and we're making sure we're
filling those gaps as best we can. Now what does,
for someone who's not a scientist and I'm not
a student unfortunately, but what does a renewable
or low carbon skills lab look like? What is that?
Can you explain that? You've mentioned it a couple
of times. What is, and who can access that? What
qualifications do you need? What will you be
doing in there? What will the students be doing
in there? So they'll be doing a range and they
do do a range of different things actually within
those labs and so it kind of depends. on the
on the sub sector involved so for existing electricians
for example we then upskill people with level
three electrical qualifications with the right
competencies as a starting point to make sure
they're fully competent as electricians with
the bolt -on units for things like solar pv so
they'll work on solar panels actually in situ
within those labs and outside outside those labs
to see how all the component parts fit together
so again it does depend on the on the occupation
levels of each each of these different kind of
skill sets. So that's for electricians. For plumbers,
we have a similar thing around solar thermal
panels and heat pumps and how that technology
is advanced and how that fits together with existing
systems domestically and commercially. And so
again, there's a range of equipment, as I say,
that we've developed in conjunction with the
latest. manufacturing techniques and advances
in that technology to make sure it's all up to
date and again you know very often you will see
in training centers equipment that's sat there
for a long time one thing we know for sure is
that actually you need the latest equipment so
that actually when people are up skilled they
can go and talk to customers and talk to communities
with the very latest information on the latest
technology so it is very hands -on it's not a
theoretical set of courses and actually you come
and sit in a classroom and you learn about the
theory, it is all about the hands -on installation,
maintenance, control, updates to all the latest
technology and equipment. So it is quite high
-tech, actually. I was surprised when I first
stepped into a lab to see just how much there
was in there and how much there was to play with.
And I say play with, but obviously it's all about
making sure people are competent and skillful
in these bits of equipment, which is really important.
And so hopefully they leave out our new City
College ECO labs with all of that requisite.
skills, experience, competence, and then go into
the outside world and then install and maintain
those systems effectively for customers. So,
yeah, a huge amount of work. One other thing
I would also say, we're also thinking about developing,
all the time developing new courses. A good example
of that most recently was drone technology. So
thinking about drone technology as a construction
site. and thermal imaging and how all that fits
together in terms of not just the nuts and bolts
of you know fitting equipment but actually the
assessment of I suppose the thermal nature of
buildings domestically and commercially and making
sure people are you know thinking about getting
drones into the air are they competent to use
those drones again it's very hands -on it's not
a theoretical piece of work it's training that
gets you really to the heart of those low carbon
solutions so yeah really exciting to see it in
action actually. Sounds incredible for the students
and they come from far afield do they to New
City do they come from all over London or all
over the country or is it East London which area
geographical area? Now we've got just so many
campuses our geographical areas it's just expanding
all the time. So actually we get people coming
from obviously big parts, huge parts of East
London, North London, parts of Essex. But also
critically now because we've developed courses
that are quite niche and quite unique. I think
we are the only ones or definitely the first
for the drone course. So we get people traveling
some distance to come and join our courses because
they are in high demand but actually the supply
of them isn't quite where it is at the moment
or it needs to be so yeah we are quite specialist
in some of these areas and people do travel and
they want obviously the very latest skills to
equip themselves with. That is fascinating a
drone course on how to use drones but very practical
it sounds incredible but very practical and in
terms of employers because you've touched upon
how important it is you're training this these
future skills, these really important green skills,
building relationships with employers from around
the region. But how do you think governments,
business, education, and all of us can work more
collaboratively on climate? Already you're talking
about how you're working with business, but where
does everybody else come into that? One thing
definitely always in our minds is how we connect.
the dots of the different systems involved in
the education skills landscape. And obviously
part of that is thinking about government policy.
Some of that is for us very local policy. So
we work closely with the GLA on various different
committees and groups and steering groups, including
with employers to define what those skills need
to be and then deliver them. But also I think
that interconnectivity between government and
policy employers. and then us as the organisations
that deliver those skills is ever more critical.
And I think we've seen, and I've definitely seen
over a long period of time, how a non -joined
up approach. very quickly leads to failure. So
actually the investment that everyone wants to
see in skills, for example, actually leads down
a bit of a cul -de -sac because it doesn't then
lead to gainful employment for those individuals.
And so actually, if you don't have employers
in the mix with providers like ourselves, aligned
to a coherent policy that joins up all the different
parts of all the different systems that very
often don't work together, we try to connect
those really. We make sure employers and employer
committees are at the heart of what we do. So
they shape our provision rather than us impose
on employers and economies the things that we
think they want to see. And so we are very close
to all of the local and national policies around
sustainability, around skills. And we work very
closely with employers too. also help them navigate
what those policies mean and how they can make
a real difference to the productivity and the
output for their particular businesses. And how
about your local community because as you say
you've got campuses in various areas spread quite
far afield and so they'll all have their own
specific kind of community identities if you
like. Is there any joining up with, we know your
students are passionate, we've got 20 ,000 students,
I think you said you had about 2 ,000 staff.
Is there any joining up with any of those kind
of climate community and local environment action
groups? One thing we wanted to do with our initial
five -year environmental strategy which started
in 2020 -21 was do that very thing knowing that
actually we had quite a large set of those community
organisations and steering groups and working
committees all working together. but very often
working in their own silos, sub -regionally very
often, and how could we bring those together.
So we work carefully with climate groups in Tao
Hamlet, for example, we did a similar thing with
Hackney Borough Council, and very often we will
pull those organisations together and think about
how we can join, again, join those dots together.
to make sure we've got a wider focus on positive
impact, not just in a small area of London, but
how we can share best practice and pull that
together. A lot of that work is done by the GLE
Climate Leadership Group, of which we're a prominent
member, and thinking just about the different
London boroughs that we serve, what works well
in each of those boroughs, and how can we mainstream
that really good... good positive practice across
the other parts of the geography in which we
serve our communities really and that is critical.
The other thing we really try to do is make sure
we enable and empower those communities themselves
to take action. We'll actually you know refocus
on skills and training and you know vocational
pathways into some of these skills but actually
that community action is just so critical particularly
around employment particularly around you know
local impact and so yeah we do a huge amount
of work putting those together and thinking carefully
about the right types of action. So it's very
dynamic isn't it and very much a kind of moving
feast as well of a lot of action taking part
and collaboration. How do you, you're obviously
very positive and you've got to be because you've
got a lot of work to be done, but how do you
maintain that kind of motivation when we're looking
at the big stories that we're looking at? around
climate on our news every day? Yeah I think it's
really easy to get bogged down with the negativity
I think just generally of the news let alone
sustainability news and policy but actually I
think maintaining that positive focus is just
so important and as an organisation as individuals
within an organisation we are really focused
on momentum, positivity, celebrating the wins.
I think the other thing that really helps us
is actually our students, our students themselves
and seeing them in action. And so over the last
few years, we've really tried to foster that
environment of... student -led action. So actually
this is not something that we impose from our
governance and SMT down onto students. This is
led by the students themselves and so if you
ever need any any positivity or you know the
feel -good factor I would encourage you to come
along to our annual NCC goes green week which
actually in the year just gone became a fortnight,
came two weeks, there was just so much that students
wanted to do and get involved with, we had to
expand it. And so, and within, within those few
weeks, the positivity from students themselves
around wanting to make a difference, wanting
to raise awareness, get more people involved,
finding the advocates for change, being the advocates
for change, you know, that level of positivity,
I think helps. It drives you on, it moves you
forward, doesn't it? Yeah, it's the great motivator
that goes green week, sounds fantastic. OK, so
bearing in mind what you've said about the students,
which are highly motivating and you're always
very much aware of them because they are the
future. And it's a big question, Vince, but I
know that you used to big projects and big questions.
So if you could implement one change globally
on climate tomorrow, what would it be? That is
a big question. and only one you know there's
probably a whole long list of things but probably
close to the top if not at the top of the list
would be obviously thinking about the power of
education and you'd expect me to say that wouldn't
you being an educator be part of the education
system for so long being part of a fantastic
positive college group education is key i think
and so for me the the biggest action would be
around properly embedding integrating sustainability
education in all levels of curriculum and that's
all the way from early years and I've got children
you know I've seen them go through the education
system and what they learn and how they learn
from a very young age I think that that raising
awareness of environmental impact positive and
negative and building that level of education
from a young age all the way through primary
school into secondary school to university and
beyond as adult learners, all the way through
our lives as students and learners. I think making
sure that's properly embedded within our education
structure for me is the big thing and I think
that's nationally, that's locally, that's globally,
that's at all levels. I just think that that
power of education is so important and It's easily
said, but much harder, I think, to do and enact.
I think it's a very easy thing to say. We want
to embed things. And again, I go into colleges
and schools and other educators. And everyone
likes to talk about, we embed things. We start
to talk about these things in the classroom.
But actually, I think it really needs a coherent,
structured, sustained approach. and that's top
down and bottom up i think at all levels of our
education system and for me that's the big thing
that's the thing that drives up so education
at the core final question for you and i have
to ask it it's not such a big question but it
holds you to account a little bit because we're
talking about climate we're talking about sustainability
now let's just talk about turn it on you for
a moment do you think you lead a sustainable
lifestyle when you leave the colony you go home
what what are your kind of green or sustainable
habits I do my best, I hopefully do my bit. But
again, being involved in sustainability education
more closely over the last few years has obviously
changed my perspective on things. And so I do
what I can when I can. And so I think carefully
about waste in particular, at home, in the house,
thinking about recycling, what needs to go where
and when. I've also invested... try to put my
money where my mouth is very often thinking about
investing in new technologies. So actually, we
now have solar panels and a battery here at home
in terms of harnessing the power of the sun,
thinking about solar PV and how that supports,
you know, reduce consumption and feed that back
into the grid, etc. And so, yeah, trying to do
as much as I can really within the home environment,
as well as the environment. And so there's more
to do. There's more I can do. There's more I
want to do. It's finding the time and the money.
and I've got the inclination it's just finding
those things I think to do. Thank you, thank
you very much to Vince and fascinating to hear
about the drones and obviously as well as the
initiatives being run by the students there and
your work with Hackney and Tower Hamlets and
the communities of which you serve so superb.
Thank you very much to Vince Glover from New
City College. There can be no doubt that climate
change is the biggest challenge of our time.
Today we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions
to slow global warming. Today we must act for
tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current
and future impacts of climate change. Today we
must use our collective wisdom to deliver on
our climate commitments. Today we work for tomorrow's
world. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast
channels and please email us with your news and
views at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. Big
thanks again to Vince. Thanks, Hannah. Thanks
for having me. Thanks a lot.