WEBVTT 00:00:07.029 --> 00:00:10.529 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.429 a podcast from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on 00:00:14.429 --> 00:00:17.230 Climate Change, our collective challenge. Welcome 00:00:17.230 --> 00:00:20.010 to the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah 00:00:20.010 --> 00:00:22.289 Walker and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:22.289 --> 00:00:24.710 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:28.949 are talking about. My guest today is Rachael Orr 00:00:28.949 --> 00:00:32.070 and Rachael is the... Chief Executive of Climate 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:34.450 Outreach, which I believe is the first British 00:00:34.450 --> 00:00:37.310 charity to focus exclusively on public engagement 00:00:37.310 --> 00:00:40.329 with climate change. Rachael's job is to deliver 00:00:40.329 --> 00:00:44.009 defining overall strategy, goals and impact. 00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:46.270 Rachael has spent her career in the voluntary 00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:48.789 sector in leadership roles, combining a deep 00:00:48.789 --> 00:00:51.789 commitment to social justice and to public engagement. 00:00:52.229 --> 00:00:54.530 She has run campaigns for shelter, led program 00:00:54.530 --> 00:00:57.369 and campaigning work at Oxfam and currently serves 00:00:57.369 --> 00:00:59.869 as Chair of Trustees at the Refugee Council. 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.840 It was her last role leading a network of housing 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.739 associations that Rachael really appreciated the 00:01:05.739 --> 00:01:08.939 huge gap in public awareness and engagement on 00:01:08.939 --> 00:01:11.819 climate change. We know that housing, like many 00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:15.219 sectors, needs to decarbonize. Rachael is a mom, 00:01:15.219 --> 00:01:17.980 I believe, of two young children, so she's busy. 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:21.260 But as I always say, if you want something to 00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:24.280 be done, to get done, you ask the busiest person 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:26.459 you know. And I think that certainly gets stuff 00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:30.859 done. So welcome to Rachael. Thanks Hannah, lovely 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:33.599 to be here. Thank you. Now Rachel, tell us a 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:35.480 little bit about how you started in your career 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:38.159 and what drives you and your values because you've 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:40.239 gone from leadership roles in housing and social 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:43.180 justice to climate engagement. Where does that 00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:48.040 start? So I come from a family of teachers, social 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.980 workers, community development workers, so a 00:01:50.980 --> 00:01:53.959 kind of combination of sort of thoughtfulness 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.799 and a passion for equality and social justice. 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.640 mixed in with people who believe in rolling their 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:02.799 sleeves up and kind of cracking on and getting 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.180 stuff done. So those have been kind of guiding 00:02:05.180 --> 00:02:10.340 forces in my life growing up. took me after a 00:02:10.340 --> 00:02:13.080 degree in English and politics at Liverpool University 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:16.080 to the voluntary sector. I was really lucky to 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.680 start working in Shelter's press office. I was 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.580 able to do a huge amount of, I think, really 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:23.719 important and impactful work there and also just 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:26.419 learn a huge amount about communication, about 00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:28.900 people and about the kind of broader sector. 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:31.740 And then in terms of kind of moving into climate. 00:02:32.060 --> 00:02:34.539 So, yes, as you mentioned, I was running a network 00:02:34.539 --> 00:02:37.409 for chief executives of place -based housing 00:02:37.409 --> 00:02:40.110 associations so these are people running kind 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:42.849 of you know multi -million pound organizations 00:02:42.849 --> 00:02:45.610 in some of the most deprived areas in the country 00:02:45.610 --> 00:02:48.310 and I remember about probably four or five years 00:02:48.310 --> 00:02:51.469 ago having a round table with about 20 CEOs and 00:02:51.469 --> 00:02:53.789 saying to them what's the thing that keeps you 00:02:53.789 --> 00:02:56.349 awake at night and I was expecting them to talk 00:02:56.349 --> 00:02:58.569 about the kind of really deep levels of poverty 00:02:58.569 --> 00:03:01.090 and deprivation about the anti -social behavior 00:03:01.090 --> 00:03:03.990 about challenges around funding and to a man 00:03:03.990 --> 00:03:06.229 and woman they said How on earth are we going 00:03:06.229 --> 00:03:09.229 to decarbonize all of our housing stock? And 00:03:09.229 --> 00:03:11.969 the really, really kind of wicked challenge that 00:03:11.969 --> 00:03:14.550 they felt within that was how do we bring people 00:03:14.550 --> 00:03:17.629 with us? You know, one brilliant leader who I 00:03:17.629 --> 00:03:19.930 worked with, she put it in a way that always 00:03:19.930 --> 00:03:22.650 kind of sticks in my head. She said, how do I 00:03:22.650 --> 00:03:25.650 sit down with a mum of three kids? I know that 00:03:25.650 --> 00:03:27.889 they only have one bedroom, so her kids are sharing 00:03:27.889 --> 00:03:31.159 a bed. How do I tell her that I might spend 10 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.580 grand on her property? She's not getting an extra 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:35.539 bedroom. She's not getting an outside space to 00:03:35.539 --> 00:03:37.939 dry her clothes. She's getting a heat pump. How 00:03:37.939 --> 00:03:40.039 do I begin that conversation about why that's 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.840 important, why that's a priority? And I thought 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.900 there must be an organization that helps people 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:47.360 have those conversations. And I find climate 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.539 outreach. I see that. That's such a good point, 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:54.879 isn't it? It is telling that story and how does 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.659 that become necessary and important for somebody. 00:03:58.419 --> 00:04:00.159 Now, climate outreach, which takes us nicely 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.460 onto defining climate outreach's unique goal 00:04:03.460 --> 00:04:06.879 in the climate and role in the climate movement. 00:04:07.659 --> 00:04:09.599 Can you tell us a little bit about your research 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.300 and how you do support organizations to tell 00:04:13.300 --> 00:04:15.919 that very different story or to tell a story? 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:18.740 Because I know that you offer various training, 00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:22.170 research, workshops, etc. So I think what climate 00:04:22.170 --> 00:04:24.790 outreach has always sought to do is to think 00:04:24.790 --> 00:04:28.750 about climate communication from listening first 00:04:28.750 --> 00:04:31.209 rather than broadcasting and I think an awful 00:04:31.209 --> 00:04:33.730 lot of communication especially communication 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:36.069 that comes from campaigning organization that 00:04:36.069 --> 00:04:37.790 comes from people who are deeply knowledgeable 00:04:37.790 --> 00:04:41.290 and deeply passionate often starts with talking 00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:43.370 this is what you need to know this is what you 00:04:43.370 --> 00:04:46.269 need to understand And actually what a lot of 00:04:46.269 --> 00:04:48.209 really drew me into climate outreach was thinking, 00:04:48.329 --> 00:04:50.569 how do we start by listening? How do we start 00:04:50.569 --> 00:04:52.790 by understanding where different people are, 00:04:53.230 --> 00:04:57.769 how they see the world, how their values, the 00:04:57.769 --> 00:05:00.750 kind of underpin all bits of their life, link 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:03.290 to how they think and feel and understand climate 00:05:03.290 --> 00:05:06.079 change. So an awful lot of climate outreach's 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:08.040 work, almost always delivered in partnership, 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:11.459 has been building links with trade unions or 00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:14.279 the Women's Institute or communities in places 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.740 and sort of trying to understand how the people 00:05:16.740 --> 00:05:19.399 that they are working with think and feel and 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:21.750 understand climate change. and then work with 00:05:21.750 --> 00:05:23.990 them to think about how they could maybe shift 00:05:23.990 --> 00:05:26.110 some of their communications or messaging so 00:05:26.110 --> 00:05:28.949 that it lands to a broader range of people. And 00:05:28.949 --> 00:05:31.089 then we've also done more kind of national level 00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:33.230 studies where we've kind of taken that approach 00:05:33.230 --> 00:05:36.790 but used it to do focus groups and surveys and 00:05:36.790 --> 00:05:38.959 kind of more in -depth bits of work. and then 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.540 try to produce some kind of insights and guidelines 00:05:41.540 --> 00:05:44.459 for people who are thinking about how they might 00:05:44.459 --> 00:05:46.459 alter their communications and their messaging 00:05:46.459 --> 00:05:48.759 a bit so that it can resonate with different 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:50.920 audiences and kind of people of different backgrounds 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:53.540 or maybe different political persuasions. And 00:05:53.540 --> 00:05:55.139 I'm glad you've mentioned the Women's Institute 00:05:55.139 --> 00:05:58.480 actually because I was lucky enough to interview 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.740 Emma Holland -Lindsey from the Women's Institute. 00:06:01.050 --> 00:06:04.370 and talking about that messaging and that grassroots 00:06:04.370 --> 00:06:07.029 and how you tell that message around people and 00:06:07.029 --> 00:06:09.250 where it starts and where it goes and I think 00:06:09.250 --> 00:06:11.810 you do you have something called climate ambassadors 00:06:11.810 --> 00:06:14.269 is that right is that what you call it at climate 00:06:14.269 --> 00:06:16.810 outreach climate ambassadors and how does that 00:06:16.810 --> 00:06:19.920 exactly tie in with that? We've used this kind 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:22.279 of ambassador model in lots of different forums. 00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:24.819 We've worked on it with Women's Institute, you 00:06:24.819 --> 00:06:27.160 know, how can their kind of sort of community 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.660 leaders think of themselves in terms of their 00:06:29.660 --> 00:06:33.339 personal climate story. And we've also run a 00:06:33.339 --> 00:06:36.240 similar kind of program with climate scientists. 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.339 And that particular initiative came about because 00:06:39.339 --> 00:06:42.360 we had some climate scientists approach us and 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.220 say to us, we're deeply knowledgeable and passionate 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:47.319 about this, but we don't... We don't think we're 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:49.759 very good sometimes at kind of, you know, the 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:51.980 kind of explaining and public communication about 00:06:51.980 --> 00:06:55.300 it. How can we think about the messaging that 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:58.000 we can use to more effectively kind of talk to 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.079 people about what's happening, about what's happening 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.220 in climate science, but how it kind of connect 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:05.560 with them. We've done some work both at a kind 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.730 of social science level. So the social science 00:07:08.730 --> 00:07:11.449 will tell you that unfortunately facts aren't 00:07:11.449 --> 00:07:14.350 that effective as a mechanism of communication. 00:07:14.889 --> 00:07:16.870 Scientists are brilliant at facts. Knowing the 00:07:16.870 --> 00:07:20.529 facts is obviously essential but we are social 00:07:20.529 --> 00:07:23.329 animals and what most people want is connection 00:07:23.329 --> 00:07:26.730 and story and kind of empathy with kind of their 00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:29.250 own lives and their own kind of struggles. So 00:07:29.250 --> 00:07:31.569 our science ambassadors program worked with a 00:07:31.569 --> 00:07:34.360 lot of climate scientists to help them think 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.879 about how they could communicate not just the 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.339 science but like communicate as themselves as 00:07:39.339 --> 00:07:41.279 scientists, you know, how do you as someone who 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.199 is talking about climate bring the kind of personal 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:46.399 dimension into it and that's something I've certainly 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:49.199 found kind of moving from an issue like housing, 00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:52.000 like everybody has somewhere that they live, 00:07:52.060 --> 00:07:53.800 whether that's somewhere that's good or somewhere 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:55.819 that's less good, whereas quite a lot of climate 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:58.100 communication can feel very much about facts 00:07:58.100 --> 00:08:00.160 and science and we sometimes leave the people 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:02.939 behind trying to work with people about How do 00:08:02.939 --> 00:08:05.620 you bring that to the fore more? How do you bring 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:08.079 that kind of empathy with your audience? And 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:09.639 it was, yeah, it was a really interesting process 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.060 doing that with climate scientists. And that 00:08:12.060 --> 00:08:14.079 model is something that we do when we're, you 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:16.060 know, working in partnership with anyone, as 00:08:16.060 --> 00:08:18.019 I say, from kind of climate scientists or maybe 00:08:18.019 --> 00:08:20.199 to charities or community groups, community leaders 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.029 as well. So, yeah, because I do speak to quite 00:08:24.029 --> 00:08:26.170 a few scientists and engineers and we talk a 00:08:26.170 --> 00:08:29.170 lot about statistics and facts because we need 00:08:29.170 --> 00:08:30.810 those, because we need to know that things are 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:32.929 warming up, we need to know how we're responding, 00:08:33.389 --> 00:08:36.070 but essentially we're driven by emotion and we're 00:08:36.070 --> 00:08:38.309 driven by the heart, aren't we, and those stories. 00:08:38.809 --> 00:08:40.789 And there's a lot of social science research, 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:43.610 so essentially your job is to get that social 00:08:43.610 --> 00:08:45.990 science research and find the very best to tell 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:49.139 that story. which takes us on to kind of the 00:08:49.139 --> 00:08:51.440 kinds of stories we're seeing on our news, because 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.960 we see climate crisis stories regularly on our 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.500 news, whether it's flooding, whether it's fires, 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:01.539 et cetera. From your experience, why do you think 00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:03.700 there is such a gap in the public understanding 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:07.299 of climate issues? And why do you think we're 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:10.860 finding it quite hard to tell that very real 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:12.980 climate story? Because we've got, for example, 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:15.860 we've got climate migration, which is a big issue. 00:09:16.029 --> 00:09:18.990 and the perception of climate migrants. We see 00:09:18.990 --> 00:09:20.950 the perception of climate migrants in our news 00:09:20.950 --> 00:09:24.549 as well. What are the issues around that? What 00:09:24.549 --> 00:09:28.470 advice would you give to a new organization or 00:09:28.470 --> 00:09:31.169 to any organization coming? Because you've also 00:09:31.169 --> 00:09:33.070 worked with The Guardian, for example, because 00:09:33.070 --> 00:09:34.950 I know you've helped shape editorial standards 00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:38.029 and guidelines at The Guardian in terms of climate 00:09:38.029 --> 00:09:40.370 photojournalism, I think. And maybe you can talk 00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:42.990 a little bit about that. And you've also launched 00:09:42.990 --> 00:09:44.850 a campaign called I think it's Shall We Love? 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.879 Tell us how practical that is to bring those 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.179 statistics to life. The first thing I would say 00:09:52.179 --> 00:09:56.440 is people across the UK really care about climate 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:58.759 change. They're really worried about it and they 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.080 really care about it. They see those news stories 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:06.159 of climate impact and they're worried. What a 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:08.340 lot of people say to us is when they're worried 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:10.460 about something, they try not to think about 00:10:10.460 --> 00:10:13.460 it. And actually, that's quite a normal human 00:10:13.460 --> 00:10:15.340 response, right? I'm quite worried that I might 00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:17.919 get cancer one day, but I don't think about it. 00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:19.899 Obviously, the people who've chosen to work on 00:10:19.899 --> 00:10:21.620 climate, we're so worried about this that it 00:10:21.620 --> 00:10:24.360 drives us to lean in more. But that's a bit of 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.139 a difference. But I think it's a mistake to assume 00:10:27.139 --> 00:10:28.639 that just because people aren't talking about 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.759 climate all the time, they don't know that it's 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:32.639 important and they're not worried about it every 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:35.149 time we do. kind of population -wide surveys, 00:10:35.169 --> 00:10:36.929 every time we talk to people about this, you 00:10:36.929 --> 00:10:39.129 know, people get it, they're worried about it, 00:10:39.129 --> 00:10:41.049 and they're starting to notice climate impacts, 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:43.429 not just around the world, but locally as well. 00:10:43.490 --> 00:10:45.409 You know, more and more people are saying, it's 00:10:45.409 --> 00:10:47.870 not just the weather, is it? You know, my local 00:10:47.870 --> 00:10:50.870 community is flooded. So, you know, I think that 00:10:50.870 --> 00:10:54.070 kind of realization is growing. I think there's 00:10:54.070 --> 00:10:56.129 a few key things. So, first of all, I think it's 00:10:56.129 --> 00:10:58.409 really important that we find a way when we're 00:10:58.409 --> 00:11:00.230 telling, when the news is telling those stories 00:11:00.230 --> 00:11:02.730 about climate impact, that we name climate change. 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.840 Some journalists, some media outlets, some weather 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.159 reporters do that, but it doesn't happen across 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:10.360 the board at all. And of course, we need to think 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:12.679 about how we do that and we need to do it sensitively. 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.740 But I don't think it's OK anymore for us just 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:17.980 to have kind of report after report of kind of 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:20.179 wild weather. You know, there needs to be more 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:22.080 that consistently says, you know, these are some 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:24.100 of the why and this is how it links to the fact 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:25.960 that the kind of the kind of planet is warming. 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:29.500 We have to balance some of those stories of despair 00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:32.269 and destruction with progress. because the other 00:11:32.269 --> 00:11:34.509 thing that people don't know enough about is 00:11:34.509 --> 00:11:36.990 that we are making progress. And I also think 00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:38.629 this is a bit of a challenge for kind of climate 00:11:38.629 --> 00:11:40.490 campaigners and climate advocates, because what 00:11:40.490 --> 00:11:43.070 we feel is the progress isn't fast enough. And 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:44.549 a lot of, you know, what you'll get from climate 00:11:44.549 --> 00:11:46.429 campaigners is we're not doing enough and we 00:11:46.429 --> 00:11:49.090 know we're not, we're not doing enough. But what 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.320 people who don't think about this every day just 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.139 here is it's all negative there is no positive 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:56.700 to be had there at all so actually we need the 00:11:56.700 --> 00:11:58.659 stories of progress we need to keep telling people 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:02.039 like we've halved our emissions since the 1990s 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.360 50 percent of our electricity is now powered 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:06.120 by renewables like when you tell people that 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.139 they're like wow really that's incredible that 00:12:08.139 --> 00:12:10.360 makes me feel better that makes me feel good 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:12.740 So we need to find the stories of progress and 00:12:12.740 --> 00:12:14.740 we need to find the storytellers of progress 00:12:14.740 --> 00:12:16.860 as well. You know, of course we need the scientists, 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:19.259 but we need the innovators and the community 00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:21.779 leaders who are kind of powering the green transition 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:23.379 as well. So I think there's definitely something 00:12:23.379 --> 00:12:27.480 about how we balance stories and the storytellers. 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:30.000 And I think it's how we sort of, you know, talk 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.120 about that sort of honestly and kind of openly 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.940 and sensitively, like the vast majority of people 00:12:35.940 --> 00:12:37.879 who are moving because of climate change are 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.179 doing so within their countries. or across country 00:12:41.179 --> 00:12:44.399 borders, they're not coming to the UK. There's 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:46.500 a big risk around some of this that we start 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:49.960 telling scare stories. We've got to tackle climate 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:51.820 change so there isn't more migration. That is 00:12:51.820 --> 00:12:54.299 a terrible, terrible thing for us to be falling 00:12:54.299 --> 00:12:59.139 into the trap of doing. So I think how do we 00:12:59.139 --> 00:13:01.320 tell the people's story and the kind of sensitive 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.559 story, but also what are the things that are 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:06.179 resonant and relevant to people's daily lives 00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:08.539 and how are we kind of starting more of our our 00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:10.480 kind of communication and storytelling from from 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.220 there. Yes now you've also work or do work with 00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:16.720 the IPCC which is of course the Intergovernmental 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.440 Panel on Climate Change. Can you tell me a little 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.860 bit about that work what how what influence have 00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:24.549 you had there? So that the main piece of work 00:13:24.549 --> 00:13:26.769 we did with the IPCC was a few years ago where 00:13:26.769 --> 00:13:30.330 they kind of asked us to help shape a chapter 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:32.850 they were writing specifically around kind of 00:13:32.850 --> 00:13:35.269 public engagement and communication and that 00:13:35.269 --> 00:13:37.490 was what sparked some of our partnerships with 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:40.429 some of the scientists that I mentioned. For 00:13:40.429 --> 00:13:42.269 me the kind of exciting thing about that was 00:13:42.269 --> 00:13:44.990 that the real sort of start I think of a realization 00:13:44.990 --> 00:13:47.450 from that kind of broader science community that 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.039 we all have a role in how we think about the 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.059 kind of communication and kind of storytelling 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:55.879 about this and how we can help move beyond this 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:58.980 just being a climate sector kind of story. This 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:02.159 is now not just kind of an issue of climate change. 00:14:02.299 --> 00:14:04.279 It's kind of, you know, it's going to fundamentally 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.879 kind of affect all of our lives and jobs and 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:09.440 communities, but also, you know, it's going to 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:12.519 fundamentally kind of rewire our economy. So 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:16.000 for me, there were, I mean, obviously the kind 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.139 of, you know, privilege and prestige of being 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:21.100 invited to kind of work with the IPCC but actually 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:23.240 that kind of realization from people in those 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.740 kind of deeply expert policy circles about the 00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:29.320 need for and their role in thinking about how 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:31.980 we sort of take this out kind of beyond the kind 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:35.399 of climate science world into people's kind of 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.399 everyday lives and how we could help to kind 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:40.580 of them think about that. Yes, if there's one 00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:43.480 piece of advice you would give to leaders in 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.990 the voluntary sector? who want to focus on climate 00:14:46.990 --> 00:14:50.429 change, what would it be? I would say three things. 00:14:50.789 --> 00:14:53.269 I'll be a bit cheeky, I'll give them three. So 00:14:53.269 --> 00:14:55.450 one is, I think, be really practical. What can 00:14:55.450 --> 00:14:58.590 you do in your business? And it's absolutely 00:14:58.590 --> 00:15:00.669 fine to start small. And we say this all the 00:15:00.669 --> 00:15:02.870 time with, you know, thinking about kind of motivating 00:15:02.870 --> 00:15:04.929 people to act, like start with things that feel 00:15:04.929 --> 00:15:07.269 like small actions and then they can grow bigger. 00:15:07.730 --> 00:15:10.799 So I think, you know, what could what could you 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.440 do within your organization or your supply chain 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.460 that you know could make a kind of initial difference 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:19.200 in terms of tackling climate change reducing 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.799 carbon emissions. The second thing is I would 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:24.100 say talk to your staff there will be people who 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.279 work for your organization who are really passionate 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.539 about this issue who have ideas and who would 00:15:28.539 --> 00:15:31.460 love to be consulted on what more your business 00:15:31.460 --> 00:15:34.240 can do. And I think the third thing is don't 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.120 underestimate the kind of role you have as a 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.519 leader, but as a person, like what is your personal 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:42.000 climate story? What does this mean to you? Like 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:43.639 it might not mean that much to you. You know, 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.279 I used to meet people in the housing sector and 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.440 they'd be like, I'm not really bought into climate 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:49.220 change, but this is really good for my business. 00:15:49.779 --> 00:15:51.700 And I wouldn't necessarily recommend that, but 00:15:51.700 --> 00:15:53.460 I think like being honest about it, you know, 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.250 leaders who say. I'm doing this because my kids 00:15:56.250 --> 00:15:59.990 are on at me all the time. Why does it matter 00:15:59.990 --> 00:16:03.070 personally to you? And I think people really 00:16:03.070 --> 00:16:05.230 kind of respect that and want to kind of come 00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:07.049 along with you if you can do that as a leader. 00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:10.350 I think that last point is a very good point, 00:16:10.610 --> 00:16:12.830 actually, thinking again about what it means 00:16:12.830 --> 00:16:14.710 to you. And I think some of us take it for granted, 00:16:14.870 --> 00:16:16.289 don't we? I love for the environment. I love 00:16:16.289 --> 00:16:19.480 the planet. are, if we're fortunate enough, we've 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.840 spent a lot of time outdoors in incredible scenery 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.039 and just having great respect for that and awe 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.320 for our natural world, which kind of drives us 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.700 to want to protect it and safeguard it. Now, 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:32.240 I would like to go back to you as a parent because 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.899 I'd like to know how your role, and it's the 00:16:34.899 --> 00:16:37.519 most important role, isn't it? How does your 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:39.740 role as a mother influence your perspective on 00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:43.740 climate advocacy and long -term impact? So my 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:47.059 kids are eight and six now so it definitely sits 00:16:47.059 --> 00:16:49.779 in two camps. When they were smaller the main 00:16:49.779 --> 00:16:51.879 camp it sat in was me going oh my goodness like 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:54.909 what is you know. What am I doing with my life 00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:57.029 that means that the world I'll leave my kids 00:16:57.029 --> 00:16:58.929 is one that you know I think is a bit better 00:16:58.929 --> 00:17:02.370 than when I found it um both you know really 00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:04.750 locally in terms of what I'm doing in my household 00:17:04.750 --> 00:17:07.210 or in my community but yeah what am I doing uh 00:17:07.210 --> 00:17:10.250 in terms of my job but I now find that I have 00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:13.230 two brilliantly inquisitive minds who are asking 00:17:13.230 --> 00:17:15.730 me a bunch of questions all the time about the 00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:18.210 type of car we drive and why we're or taking 00:17:18.210 --> 00:17:21.549 a bike rather than taking a car. And that's amazing. 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:23.529 And they get quite a lot of that from school. 00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:26.009 There's things that they're kind of talking about 00:17:26.009 --> 00:17:28.029 in their classrooms, which I think is fantastic. 00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:30.250 And obviously, we're talking from home about 00:17:30.250 --> 00:17:32.309 it. But I'm definitely starting to feel the kind 00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:34.710 of push from them about the kind of choices that 00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:37.450 we're making as a family, which is brilliant. 00:17:37.730 --> 00:17:39.529 Occasionally uncomfortable, but really brilliant. 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:42.609 So yeah, it's kind of twofold, really, my responsibility. 00:17:42.710 --> 00:17:44.750 But then also, yeah, like responding to questions 00:17:44.750 --> 00:17:46.740 and needs that they are bringing to me. It's 00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:48.759 hard isn't it being a parent especially of young 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:50.660 children and trying to be sustainable as well 00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:53.180 just on a practical basis as well. It's a real 00:17:53.180 --> 00:17:56.019 challenge isn't it? Absolutely. Fantastic and 00:17:56.019 --> 00:17:57.740 of course hopefully they do correct you because 00:17:57.740 --> 00:17:59.420 they'll walk behind you and tell you to turn 00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:01.880 off the lights and stop running the tap and you 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:05.640 know all of those things that are important. 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.720 Rachel can I ask what next for you in your career? 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:13.359 You've achieved so much what next? Thank you. 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:18.779 I better not say too much and kiss my boss. I'm 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:22.380 always driven by how we can kind of have impact 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:25.539 and bring people with us and so right now my 00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:29.279 job at Climate Outreach is how we can do that 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.220 on as big a scale as possible which you know 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:34.500 one of the things I really love about Climate 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:36.480 Outreach is we always seek to work in partnerships 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.660 so trying to explore a kind of new partnerships 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:40.839 you know how can we get our research to people. 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:42.940 You know, I'm thinking about elections that are 00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:45.880 happening in the next 12 months. Who are all 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:47.420 the campaign groups who are going to be thinking 00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:49.140 about climate in the run up to those elections? 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.400 Can we help them think about their kind of messaging 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:55.859 and their story? You know, thinking about what 00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:58.420 are the kind of big picture sort of stories and 00:18:58.420 --> 00:19:01.700 narratives that we might need in the UK in the 00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:03.619 next few years and what role could climate outreach 00:19:03.619 --> 00:19:06.720 have in kind of sort of shaping those? I think 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.759 that we are always better when people who believe 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.660 in the same outcomes and the same ends are working 00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:14.859 together, so trying to forge some partnerships 00:19:14.859 --> 00:19:18.140 across the sector to keep up the momentum that 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:23.079 we've had on progress on climate, which has potentially 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:24.759 felt a wee bit bumpy in the last few months. 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:26.980 But I think there's so many brilliant people 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:29.309 and there's so much energy in this sector. trying 00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:30.950 to think about how we can be a really good partner 00:19:30.950 --> 00:19:32.849 and help sort of harness that moving forward. 00:19:33.049 --> 00:19:34.869 I think that's certainly a great message because 00:19:34.869 --> 00:19:38.450 it's a common thread actually is that togetherness 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.029 and being able to achieve and then you mentioned 00:19:41.029 --> 00:19:42.869 the word brilliance as well because there are 00:19:42.869 --> 00:19:44.869 so many brilliant people working in this area 00:19:44.869 --> 00:19:47.549 and together we can achieve so much more. So 00:19:47.549 --> 00:19:50.750 thank you very much to Rachel Orr who is the 00:19:50.750 --> 00:19:52.650 Chief Executive Officer of Climate Outreach. 00:19:52.940 --> 00:19:55.220 There can be no doubt that climate change is 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:57.619 the biggest challenge of our time. Today we must 00:19:57.619 --> 00:19:59.779 reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global 00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.500 warming. Today we must act for tomorrow, adjusting 00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:04.579 our lifestyles to current and future impacts 00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:07.599 of climate change. Today we must use our collective 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.900 wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments. 00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:12.779 Today we work for tomorrow's world. Don't forget 00:20:12.779 --> 00:20:15.440 to subscribe to our podcast channels and to email 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.700 us at podcast .salixfinance .co .uk with your 00:20:18.700 --> 00:20:21.759 ideas. Thank you very much to Rachel. Thank you. 00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:25.170 Thank you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:20:25.170 --> 00:20:29.210 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:32.509 about our work and to find more content, please 00:20:32.509 --> 00:20:37.250 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.