WEBVTT 00:00:06.990 --> 00:00:10.529 You're listening to the Decarbonization Dialogue, 00:00:10.849 --> 00:00:14.210 a podcast from Salix. I'm Hannah Walker, and 00:00:14.210 --> 00:00:16.050 I believe that the best way to communicate a 00:00:16.050 --> 00:00:18.329 message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:18.329 --> 00:00:21.289 are talking about. Welcome to Nick Chadwick. 00:00:21.510 --> 00:00:24.609 Nick is chief executive and co -founder of Mission 00:00:24.609 --> 00:00:28.070 Zero Technologies, which is a collective of scientists, 00:00:28.449 --> 00:00:31.089 engineers and creative thinkers on a mission 00:00:31.089 --> 00:00:35.000 to reinvent carbon. Nick is an environmentally 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.340 driven chemist and material scientist enthusiastic 00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:42.020 about renewables, water and semiconductors. Nick 00:00:42.020 --> 00:00:44.299 has experienced scaling and building early stage 00:00:44.299 --> 00:00:46.500 materials technologies and renewable semiconductors 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:49.259 and sensors and carbon capture. He has a PhD 00:00:49.259 --> 00:00:51.700 in material science from University College London 00:00:51.700 --> 00:00:54.460 and a master's in chemistry from the University 00:00:54.460 --> 00:00:57.320 of Nottingham. I'm told that in your spare time 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:01.020 you're a proud dad and a rock climber and I believe 00:01:01.020 --> 00:01:03.899 that you never intended to set up a company or 00:01:03.899 --> 00:01:07.500 start a company but here we are. So welcome to 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:12.140 Nick. Thank you. Thank you Nick. Now I'm going 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:14.459 to firstly start, which I don't need you to do, 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:17.540 to say hands up I am not a scientist and I'm 00:01:17.540 --> 00:01:20.299 not an engineer and I'm speaking to someone who's 00:01:20.299 --> 00:01:22.620 got a PhD and a master's in chemistry so I'm 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:24.900 going to hold my hands up now so we're going 00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:28.760 to try and avoid acronyms and highly scientific 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:31.760 language. but which I don't think will happen 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:33.599 in this first question actually, because I'd 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:36.379 love to know how you started and what got you 00:01:36.379 --> 00:01:38.719 interested in science and innovation? Were you 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:41.019 one of those kids at school who was always in 00:01:41.019 --> 00:01:44.099 the science labs at Bunsen Burnet etc? What got 00:01:44.099 --> 00:01:47.060 you started? For me, you know, I was a kid growing 00:01:47.060 --> 00:01:49.420 up, I was just quite artistic, like I quite liked 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:53.319 art, drawing, painting etc. I think science is 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.280 inherently a creative endeavor in many ways and 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.359 so I kind of straddled that. I'm space between 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:01.379 like quite looking creative things but also like 00:02:01.379 --> 00:02:04.040 the structure and you know. What i found fun 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:06.099 about science at the time was like the discovery 00:02:06.099 --> 00:02:08.159 of the ability to do things are real in the world 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.900 things like that so good going either way. I 00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:12.860 don't get convinced by my uncle when i was choosing 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:15.139 my levels that should do all science so i can 00:02:15.139 --> 00:02:17.919 do science and i will go to a levels i was like 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:20.539 doing this as well as i wanted to. I remember 00:02:20.539 --> 00:02:22.539 sitting down with my chemistry teacher things 00:02:22.539 --> 00:02:24.719 like after the first time something she was like 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:26.780 you throwing away a lot of potential agents kind 00:02:26.780 --> 00:02:30.919 of. fuck your ideas up. I basically went, OK, 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:33.120 if we apply ourselves, we can do something. And 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:35.300 so it kind of went from there. And I think probably 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:39.319 my chemistry teacher showing that faith, essentially, 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:41.020 that you can do something if you turn your hand 00:02:41.020 --> 00:02:42.780 to it. It was probably the reason I chose chemistry. 00:02:43.219 --> 00:02:45.340 And that's why I became a chemist and then branched 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:47.780 out within chemistry into material science. And 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:50.319 I spent a lot of time in research. So as a reference, 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:52.099 I did a master's in Nordicum that last year was 00:02:52.099 --> 00:02:54.780 working on a research project. um that I wrote 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:57.860 a thesis on and then you uh moved to a university 00:02:57.860 --> 00:03:00.699 college london to a phd and again working on 00:03:00.699 --> 00:03:02.659 things you know you're doing things in the lab 00:03:02.659 --> 00:03:04.520 you're working with your hands it's a very creative 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.580 thing I sort of think science and particularly 00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:10.599 chemistry is a weird mix of like ultra complex 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:14.060 uh flat pack furniture building mixed with cooking 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:15.780 but the cooking could kill you if you get it 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:20.139 wrong um so it's like a it's like a it's just 00:03:20.139 --> 00:03:22.259 like a really good challenge like it's very hard 00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:24.180 and what you're working with is the fabric of 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:25.560 reality and i think like if you're going to work 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.699 on any problem being able to manipulate the fabric 00:03:28.699 --> 00:03:30.699 of reality is actually quite a fun fun space 00:03:30.699 --> 00:03:33.819 to be in so and the things you're working on 00:03:33.819 --> 00:03:35.379 so for instance the the thing that i worked on 00:03:35.379 --> 00:03:38.319 in my phd was these are materials that could 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.000 take sunlight in and then use that to break down 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:42.580 things at the surface and water so you could 00:03:42.580 --> 00:03:45.729 use that to sterilize water break down contaminants 00:03:45.729 --> 00:03:48.949 the water viruses things like this and you could 00:03:48.949 --> 00:03:51.150 all of a sudden provide clean water and so it's 00:03:51.150 --> 00:03:53.430 not like it's just the idea as well that like 00:03:53.430 --> 00:03:55.969 science for science sake is interesting but science 00:03:55.969 --> 00:03:58.650 for human benefit i think is more to change things 00:03:58.650 --> 00:04:00.569 yeah to change things to make the human condition 00:04:00.569 --> 00:04:02.969 better so that's that's ultimately what what 00:04:02.969 --> 00:04:04.930 drives what drives me because i kind of recognized 00:04:04.930 --> 00:04:06.990 it all the things in our world that are good 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:09.050 are usually at the moment anyway technological 00:04:09.050 --> 00:04:12.889 yes realized that that's a fantastic start and 00:04:12.889 --> 00:04:15.129 all credit to that chemistry teacher that you 00:04:15.129 --> 00:04:18.069 had and i always think it just takes one good 00:04:18.069 --> 00:04:21.730 teacher and hopefully if we're lucky we've all 00:04:21.730 --> 00:04:25.699 had one good teacher who sits on our way and 00:04:25.699 --> 00:04:28.100 I have to say I remember my the best teacher 00:04:28.100 --> 00:04:30.540 I had at primary school in the very last year 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:32.480 in the states and I still remember her name is 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.899 Sandal and she set me on my way and you never 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:39.779 forget those very special people incredible so 00:04:39.779 --> 00:04:41.300 well done to the chemistry teacher can you remember 00:04:41.300 --> 00:04:44.759 her name? Oh her first name was Anne but um okay 00:04:44.889 --> 00:04:48.829 He was born on a first name basis and I was just 00:04:48.829 --> 00:04:50.269 thinking it's really bad that I can't remember 00:04:50.269 --> 00:04:52.569 a second name but I definitely remember a face 00:04:52.569 --> 00:04:56.949 and her. Great teacher. Now let's just move on 00:04:56.949 --> 00:04:59.829 to talk about Mission Zero now. So can you please 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:02.209 tell us a little about this and how can companies 00:05:02.209 --> 00:05:05.529 like Mission Zero Technologies drive systematic 00:05:05.529 --> 00:05:07.370 change and tackling climate change because we've 00:05:07.370 --> 00:05:10.379 talked about making a difference. And the biggest 00:05:10.379 --> 00:05:12.759 issue of our time is undoubtedly, I mean, we've 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:14.699 got a lot of complex issues going on at the moment, 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:17.459 but at the top of the agenda must be climate 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:20.220 change and the climate crisis that we're facing. 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.620 So what can companies like Mission Zero Technologies, 00:05:23.980 --> 00:05:25.920 how can they drive this much change in tackling 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.459 climate change beyond your immediate products? 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:30.699 Because, and I would also like to talk about 00:05:30.699 --> 00:05:32.680 the trust element there, because I think trust 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:34.839 is a big part of this as well, isn't it? That 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:39.759 basic element and value. Of course, yeah. So, 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.199 you know, Mission Zero is a startup, a scale 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.160 -up, a company that is trying to realize something 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.019 new in the world and quite a, you know, complex 00:05:49.019 --> 00:05:51.600 technological product that enables that. But 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.439 at the start of it is recognizing, I think, like, 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:56.579 opportunities for change that aren't kind of 00:05:56.579 --> 00:05:59.420 piecemeal or, you know, kind of like band -aids. 00:05:59.779 --> 00:06:01.879 Like, what we're working to do is readdress something 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.779 systematic within our everyday experience, our 00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:09.300 lives. And so that might sound very high level, 00:06:09.620 --> 00:06:12.040 but if I break it down into something that everyone 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:14.560 kind of resonate with, like the house you live 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.879 in or the flat you rent, the clothes you wear, 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:24.220 the drugs you take, the food you consume, the 00:06:24.220 --> 00:06:27.040 flights you take on holiday, these are all essentially 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.319 carbon -based products, right? Everything in 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:31.680 the world that is good in the world at the moment 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.470 is basically a carbon -based product. And that 00:06:34.470 --> 00:06:36.750 carbon has to come from somewhere. And it predominantly 00:06:36.750 --> 00:06:39.189 comes from fossil fuels at the moment. And so 00:06:39.189 --> 00:06:41.370 it's not really that, you know, the problem statement 00:06:41.370 --> 00:06:43.209 we're trying to solve, or that we always start 00:06:43.209 --> 00:06:45.709 with the saying, carbon isn't a bad thing. Carbon 00:06:45.709 --> 00:06:47.649 is a good thing. It's what's made the world good 00:06:47.649 --> 00:06:49.689 around us for a really long time. It's actually 00:06:49.689 --> 00:06:51.370 where we get the carbon from, which is the issue. 00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:54.149 And we need to find sustainable sources of carbon 00:06:54.149 --> 00:06:56.649 that can meet the needs of different economies 00:06:56.649 --> 00:07:00.129 and people's needs around the world. in a reliable 00:07:00.129 --> 00:07:02.449 basis. And we think the only way to do that to 00:07:02.449 --> 00:07:04.649 transition away from a fossil fuel source of 00:07:04.649 --> 00:07:07.649 carbon is to utilize what we've actually put 00:07:07.649 --> 00:07:10.470 into the atmosphere already in CO2 and draw that 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:13.689 atmosphere and feed that CO2 as a supply chain 00:07:13.689 --> 00:07:18.089 into a variety of products. And the thing that, 00:07:18.110 --> 00:07:19.730 you know, the encouraging thing is we know how 00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:22.129 to turn carbon dioxide actually into every major 00:07:22.129 --> 00:07:23.870 base, every major product that you can think 00:07:23.870 --> 00:07:27.009 of for like 70 years. It's actually that we can't 00:07:27.009 --> 00:07:29.769 get enough CO2, which is always so silly, right? 00:07:29.769 --> 00:07:31.769 Given it's slowly in the atmosphere, building 00:07:31.769 --> 00:07:34.810 up and baking us all to death. So that's the 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:36.470 value statement. And so I think if you start 00:07:36.470 --> 00:07:38.569 with a really large proposition like that, and 00:07:38.569 --> 00:07:40.629 you can articulate a pathway to how you can affect 00:07:40.629 --> 00:07:42.949 system change, then actually that's how companies 00:07:42.949 --> 00:07:46.569 like Mission Zero can affect the change that 00:07:46.569 --> 00:07:48.689 we need and that we want. I think when we come 00:07:48.689 --> 00:07:51.350 onto the trust element, I think trust is about 00:07:51.350 --> 00:07:53.639 being transparent about what you're doing. and 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:55.579 then bringing people along as well because I 00:07:55.579 --> 00:07:58.319 think this is a highly technical field it has 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:00.579 a lot of connotations associated with it but 00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:02.420 I think if you were to come and speak to me and 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:04.139 you know understand my motives or the motives 00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.040 of my team in anything new there are always people's 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.639 assumptions about what it is and I think we just 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:11.860 have to do as good a job as we can to say this 00:08:11.860 --> 00:08:13.699 is what we're doing this is the why of what we're 00:08:13.699 --> 00:08:15.980 doing and then always just kind of lay that out 00:08:15.980 --> 00:08:17.459 and make sure that every time we get a chance 00:08:17.459 --> 00:08:19.519 to tell someone we're always telling people the 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.779 same thing. Okay so we talk a lot about don't 00:08:22.779 --> 00:08:25.300 we? Carbon and CO2 in our environment and I think 00:08:25.300 --> 00:08:26.920 we've got we've got a lot of targets haven't 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:28.939 we? I think it's by 2050 we've got to remove 00:08:28.939 --> 00:08:32.139 I think something like 85 million tons of CO2 00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:34.539 have got to be moved annually by 2030 and then 00:08:34.539 --> 00:08:38.139 we're talking about billions of tons of carbon 00:08:38.139 --> 00:08:42.600 that we've got to get rid of. Now could you explain 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.809 what you mean by And it was an anachronism. I'm 00:08:46.809 --> 00:08:49.889 sorry that you have used already. Oh, sorry on 00:08:49.889 --> 00:08:52.110 the website. It's fine. Yeah, it's cool. It's 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:55.590 the direct air capture because to me that sounds 00:08:55.590 --> 00:08:58.110 like really sci -fi. That sounds like what do 00:08:58.110 --> 00:09:02.370 you mean? How do you direct air capture? What 00:09:02.370 --> 00:09:04.850 exactly does that mean? Can you explain that 00:09:04.850 --> 00:09:07.850 in a couple of sentences? Yeah, I actually probably 00:09:07.850 --> 00:09:09.470 should have died the first the first bit, right? 00:09:09.570 --> 00:09:12.990 So my apologies. Yeah, so mission zero is is 00:09:12.990 --> 00:09:15.529 currently building and scaling a specific technology 00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:17.870 called direct data capture, or basically you 00:09:17.870 --> 00:09:20.210 can you can shorten that to the word DAC, right? 00:09:21.149 --> 00:09:24.529 And it's a process basically to separate carbon 00:09:24.529 --> 00:09:27.529 dioxide from the atmosphere, separate it from 00:09:27.529 --> 00:09:29.610 the air that you return back to the air around 00:09:29.610 --> 00:09:32.490 you, and then you were able to separate, purify, 00:09:32.789 --> 00:09:37.100 concentrate, and then provide that CO2 as a commodity 00:09:37.100 --> 00:09:39.159 stream for a variety of use cases. And that's 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:41.559 what we mean by creating a new sustainable source 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:43.299 of carbon because the carbon that we recover 00:09:43.299 --> 00:09:46.659 from the atmosphere via this process is carbon 00:09:46.659 --> 00:09:48.799 negative by its definition. And then you can 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:53.299 use that carbon to make building materials, aggregates, 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:56.820 roads, pavements. You can make aviation fuels 00:09:56.820 --> 00:09:59.840 to fly planes. You can use it to make vodka, 00:10:00.139 --> 00:10:03.100 yoga mats. you know a variety of different uh 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:04.480 different products that feature in everyone i 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.379 have to read that twice vodka yes you can make 00:10:07.379 --> 00:10:10.919 vodka i read that twice yoga mats you know just 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:13.200 and so this is what i mean is like the process 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.080 to turn co2 into a variety of products actually 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:16.519 is very well known there's a variety of ways 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.720 doing it and up converting to that complex carbon 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:22.000 molecules that go into your yoga mat or your 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.899 clothes or your house etc It's actually just 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:27.000 the supply of the CO2, which is the issue. And 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.659 you can't grow or scale or make cheap those processes 00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:32.179 if you don't have a supply chain, raw feedstock. 00:10:32.299 --> 00:10:33.840 And that's actually what we're trying to do is 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.500 create a sustainable source of carbon via this 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:38.379 technology called direct air capture that can 00:10:38.379 --> 00:10:41.600 then be used to supply not just the fizzy drinks 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:43.340 market, food and beverage, which is one of the 00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:46.500 main uses for CO2 at the moment, but drive change 00:10:46.500 --> 00:10:48.620 systematically across a wide range of industries. 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:52.360 You kind of referenced the amount of CO2 we need 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.649 to put in the atmosphere. By 2050, there's like 00:10:55.649 --> 00:10:57.990 51 billion tons of CO2 that need to be accounted 00:10:57.990 --> 00:11:01.409 for global basis. And to really affect the change 00:11:01.409 --> 00:11:04.230 that we need to, direct air capture probably 00:11:04.230 --> 00:11:06.070 needs to be dealing between one to 10 of those 00:11:06.070 --> 00:11:09.049 billion tons. So the goal isn't small, right? 00:11:09.110 --> 00:11:11.269 We're really like swinging for the fences here, 00:11:11.269 --> 00:11:14.350 but there's a path. It's possible. It's just 00:11:14.350 --> 00:11:17.590 how you navigate and achieve that aim by 2050. 00:11:17.590 --> 00:11:21.110 Exactly. Now, the goal isn't small and the vision 00:11:21.110 --> 00:11:24.039 is obviously big. Tell me a little bit about 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.679 what it like to work in. Presumably, you've got 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:29.100 a laboratory. There are a few of you working 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.100 in there. Tell us what that looks like and what 00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:34.120 your job looks like every day. I mean, you're 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:35.539 chief executive of this company, so there's going 00:11:35.539 --> 00:11:38.120 to be a lot of stuff involved in that. But what 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:40.279 about the laboratory? What does that look like? 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.440 Yeah, so we're a team of 60 people, near enough 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.580 at this moment in time, very product and R &D 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:49.509 and science heavy. And then in an archway underneath 00:11:49.509 --> 00:11:52.250 the railway line, we've built our own custom 00:11:52.250 --> 00:11:53.850 labs there, basically. So that's where we do 00:11:53.850 --> 00:11:57.669 a lot of pilot R &D work, a lot of quality assurance, 00:11:57.870 --> 00:12:00.149 testing different materials. We have teams based 00:12:00.149 --> 00:12:02.789 there. But then we also have operational sites 00:12:02.789 --> 00:12:04.649 where we've built these systems. We deploy them 00:12:04.649 --> 00:12:08.129 at large scales on customer sites or with customers. 00:12:08.450 --> 00:12:10.590 And we obviously have a whole engineering operations 00:12:10.590 --> 00:12:14.120 side of testing, continuous operations. both 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.940 in the UK and internationally in Canada. So it's 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:19.820 quite a lot of people traveling around, a lot 00:12:19.820 --> 00:12:22.759 of people on site coming back in. A lot of the 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.360 time, it can feel a bit like ships in the night 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:26.860 seeing each other. But I think you make that 00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:28.620 work all by having the right culture. So it's 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:31.580 very much a kind of trust based culture, trying 00:12:31.580 --> 00:12:33.620 to say to people, you've got the responsibility, 00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:35.860 go and do you have the autonomy, make the decisions 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:38.480 you need to. And it's just very, there's like 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.399 a high level of camaraderie. So we try to go 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.970 to a space where it's very friendly. big shared 00:12:43.970 --> 00:12:46.070 value isn't there, I mean that's saving the planet, 00:12:46.309 --> 00:12:48.769 that looking to the future and I think I mentioned 00:12:48.769 --> 00:12:52.289 earlier and you've said you're a dad and it's 00:12:52.289 --> 00:12:54.309 looking to that future isn't it, it's trying 00:12:54.309 --> 00:12:57.009 to safeguard and future -proof there must be 00:12:57.009 --> 00:13:00.509 a level of excitement in that laboratory, in 00:13:00.509 --> 00:13:02.970 that work that you're doing something new, your 00:13:02.970 --> 00:13:05.149 visionary, your visionaries working together. 00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:08.149 Exactly. You know, everyone is here for one purpose 00:13:08.149 --> 00:13:10.549 and that's to have a meaningful impact on what 00:13:10.549 --> 00:13:12.309 I consider anything. Everyone at the company 00:13:12.309 --> 00:13:14.330 is supposed to be the biggest existential crisis 00:13:14.330 --> 00:13:17.110 humanity faces right now, which is climate change. 00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:21.090 And it has got so bad that we have to do, you 00:13:21.090 --> 00:13:24.210 know, we have to find ways to pull out the atmosphere, 00:13:24.830 --> 00:13:27.350 circularize it. It's not hard to make the case 00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:29.409 of why we're all coming to the office in the 00:13:29.409 --> 00:13:30.889 morning, right? It's like we're here to do a 00:13:30.889 --> 00:13:34.070 specific job and create a systematic change. 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:36.559 in humanities relationship to carbon via the 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.279 technology we're building. It's not hard to hire 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.600 basically. Let's say people want to come and 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.039 work here. Now you mentioned earlier you alluded 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.179 very briefly to funding because there's a cost 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:49.580 obviously to all of this. Obviously there's a 00:13:49.580 --> 00:13:54.720 cost to any business but this work doesn't come 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.799 cheap does it? Let's talk about funding for the 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.200 moment. How have you managed to engage? Because 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:05.230 obviously there's a cost there's the issues of 00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:08.330 efficiency and then sustainability and then you're 00:14:08.330 --> 00:14:10.809 talking about your supply chains, the environment 00:14:10.809 --> 00:14:13.769 regulations you're facing. It's not an easy environment 00:14:13.769 --> 00:14:16.110 is it? I mean you've got maybe people's hearts 00:14:16.110 --> 00:14:19.830 but there are a lot of issues to overcome. Whenever 00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:21.990 you're building something new I think it's always 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:24.269 going to be you know when you start activating 00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:27.289 supply chains or talking to policymakers or getting 00:14:27.289 --> 00:14:28.990 permitting done there's always like a first of 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:30.889 a kind conversation that happens in that space. 00:14:31.599 --> 00:14:33.860 So the company you know we raised venture capital 00:14:33.860 --> 00:14:36.179 been quite successful so far brought in like 00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:38.919 quite a lot of uh reptile investors such as bill 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:40.879 gates's breakthrough energy people might not 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:42.620 be aware of that name but essentially the venture 00:14:42.620 --> 00:14:45.460 fund bill gets kind of spearheaded set up we've 00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:48.250 got a lot of corporate investors um and some 00:14:48.250 --> 00:14:50.529 specific sustainability and climate change focused 00:14:50.529 --> 00:14:53.309 investors as well so like quite a wide base very 00:14:53.309 --> 00:14:55.610 well experienced but also in it for the right 00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:57.789 reasons from our perspective which is just very 00:14:57.789 --> 00:14:59.490 important for us when we bring on investors that 00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:02.049 we found people that align with our values specifically 00:15:02.049 --> 00:15:04.809 and but it is an expensive expensive thing to 00:15:04.809 --> 00:15:07.450 do you know like r &d setting up labs that has 00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:10.230 a cost associated with it but you know the systems 00:15:10.230 --> 00:15:12.049 are talking about our multi -million pound systems 00:15:12.049 --> 00:15:15.269 you know so this is there is a certain cost to 00:15:15.269 --> 00:15:16.970 get these things scaled and get them started 00:15:16.970 --> 00:15:19.169 and figuring them out the way I like to phrase 00:15:19.169 --> 00:15:21.389 it is like if you consider the amount of money 00:15:21.389 --> 00:15:24.090 however that's spent on this relative to you 00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:27.330 know solar cells or batteries or even research 00:15:27.330 --> 00:15:29.929 on fusion things like this right people know 00:15:29.929 --> 00:15:33.169 nuclear fusion is um it's actually like a relatively 00:15:33.169 --> 00:15:34.789 small amount of money that's been spent on direct 00:15:34.789 --> 00:15:37.009 capture globally I'd advocate a more should be 00:15:37.009 --> 00:15:40.370 spent on it gonna be such a crucial technology 00:15:40.370 --> 00:15:42.370 that will just sit in the background of everyone's 00:15:42.370 --> 00:15:44.990 lives, you know, in 2050 when it's a scale. Like, 00:15:45.070 --> 00:15:46.809 people will notice it. It's kind of like your 00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:48.549 offshore wind turbines. You're like, oh, cool. 00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:50.850 That's a direct air capture plant. That's really 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:52.929 kind of where we need to get to. But yeah, it's 00:15:52.929 --> 00:15:55.629 just expensive. Everything when you're doing 00:15:55.629 --> 00:15:58.009 some kind of new hardware technology is expensive 00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:01.590 first. And you only get it cheap by experiencing 00:16:01.590 --> 00:16:04.190 it when it's expensive, right? Solar cells are 00:16:04.190 --> 00:16:06.129 now the cheapest form of energy on the planet. 00:16:07.309 --> 00:16:08.909 But when they started, they were pretty expensive. 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.019 And it's something by going through that deployment 00:16:11.019 --> 00:16:13.600 phase, scaling, navigating costs and working 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:15.960 to bring it down that you can make that cheap, 00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:18.720 which is ultimately what the goal is. So direct 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.580 air capture, you said it's something that we're 00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:22.220 just going to perhaps take for granted and it 00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:24.700 will probably be part of the everyday conversation 00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:27.320 in a few years to come. I certainly hope so. 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.679 I hope so. But today, how do you think we can 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:35.940 get more people engaged in climate risk and climate 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:38.850 change? Do you think we're doing enough? to keep 00:16:38.850 --> 00:16:42.529 people interested today. I mean there's a lot 00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:44.710 going on obviously on the political arena etc 00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:47.870 but do you think people, I mean there's always 00:16:47.870 --> 00:16:51.330 a danger isn't there, we see climate news on 00:16:51.330 --> 00:16:53.409 our, we see it on the news every day, climate 00:16:53.409 --> 00:16:57.370 crisis, we see flooding, fires etc and it's very 00:16:57.370 --> 00:17:00.789 easy to catastrophize and some people might sit 00:17:00.789 --> 00:17:02.529 back and think well it's somebody else's problem. 00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:04.680 and there's nothing very much we can do or they 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.079 just think it's too huge a problem and so it's 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.019 for governments and businesses to sort out. What 00:17:09.019 --> 00:17:11.900 do you think we're doing right or wrong in this 00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:14.900 storytelling of climate change? I think there's 00:17:14.900 --> 00:17:17.339 definitely an idea which seems to have become 00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:20.359 quite pervasive that as you just said that like 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.799 no one has individual responsibility or can affect 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.680 some kind of individual change and I think if 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.500 everyone you know decided they wanted to make 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:30.339 change when you submit that across the population 00:17:30.339 --> 00:17:32.259 change is pretty big and it's pretty effective 00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:34.480 but you know we get away from like direct data 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.000 capture facility and just talk about like how 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.200 you impact on climate change regardless of technology 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:42.400 or something else individuals have massive agency 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.539 jay goodall she had an interview which she had 00:17:44.539 --> 00:17:47.319 released like after after she passed away and 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:48.940 one of the final things that she said it was 00:17:48.940 --> 00:17:52.380 like you have agency you have like ability to 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:54.140 affect change even if you think you're not big 00:17:54.140 --> 00:17:56.980 enough basically and i think that's quite a poignant 00:17:56.980 --> 00:17:59.200 way of thinking about things like all is not 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.200 lost there's no point giving up because for a 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.339 lot of people it's like quite far away but you 00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:07.640 know i kind of hark back to recently when a wildfire 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.940 has basically devastated actually the majority 00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:12.319 of like the wealthiest parts of los angeles right 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.619 and now we're in a place where those houses can't 00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:16.400 even be insured because of the wildfire risk 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.200 so it's one of these things where all of a sudden 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.220 i think it's going to come knocking on people's 00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:23.480 doors very quickly out of nowhere Because it's 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.660 not really about a gradual increase in temperature 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:29.519 necessarily. It's about the variability of extreme 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.380 events. And that means all of a sudden, extreme 00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:35.720 event comes for you. Big storm that was supposed 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:37.640 to happen every 100 years, happens every two 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.000 years. And then it blows a tree onto your house 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.200 and your house. And so it's things like this 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.480 where we just don't want to get to a place where 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:47.700 it's got so bad that it's too far. And so I think 00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:50.259 that presence of going, there is still time for 00:18:50.259 --> 00:18:52.390 this. We can fix it. But we need to think about 00:18:52.390 --> 00:18:54.849 how we do that. And I think so that's the individual 00:18:54.849 --> 00:18:56.589 level. But I think if we think about it like 00:18:56.589 --> 00:19:00.390 the larger macro, you know, side of things, as 00:19:00.390 --> 00:19:02.730 if you're in orbit looking down, I think there's 00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:04.490 a responsibility to try and couch the things 00:19:04.490 --> 00:19:06.990 that are being communicated in a way that everyone 00:19:06.990 --> 00:19:09.970 kind of relate to. Right. If you say climate 00:19:09.970 --> 00:19:13.190 change is going to impact GDP by this much, you're 00:19:13.190 --> 00:19:16.009 OK. So like the business leaders and the policymakers 00:19:16.009 --> 00:19:18.680 might care about that. But. you know, if you 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:20.700 catch that as like, this means that there'll 00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:23.140 be this many job losses or a pint of beer will 00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:25.539 increase by this much. You can start talking 00:19:25.539 --> 00:19:27.500 to people in a way that kind of go like, oh, 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:30.059 OK, like that actually affects me in a different 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:32.180 way. You know, the price of tomatoes has gone 00:19:32.180 --> 00:19:35.160 up 40 percent. And, you know, some of these some 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:36.880 of these fruits won't be available. Things like 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:39.619 this sort of crop shortages. I think there's 00:19:39.619 --> 00:19:41.500 definitely an opportunity to try and change the 00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.700 phrasing of how we communicate the impacts or 00:19:43.700 --> 00:19:45.539 the, you know, the realities or climate change 00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:48.250 will mean for people today. But I'm at least 00:19:48.250 --> 00:19:49.950 heartened by polls that show that at least the 00:19:49.950 --> 00:19:53.470 UK population is actually quietly very very motivated 00:19:53.470 --> 00:19:55.470 by trying to fix climate change and the UK has 00:19:55.470 --> 00:19:57.269 a world -leading position in addressing this 00:19:57.269 --> 00:20:00.569 for many years. Okay so there's the bigger message 00:20:00.569 --> 00:20:02.390 and there's obviously the work that you're doing 00:20:02.390 --> 00:20:06.410 but in terms of my penultimate question and I 00:20:06.410 --> 00:20:08.950 always do like to ask this question we've talked 00:20:08.950 --> 00:20:11.130 about you obviously have a love of the outdoors 00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:13.490 because you're a rock climber you want to make 00:20:13.490 --> 00:20:15.789 you through your work you want to make a difference. 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.940 But in terms of your own personal lifestyle, 00:20:18.339 --> 00:20:20.940 do you think you lead this sustainable lifestyle? 00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:23.859 You know, we tend to I speak to a lot of people 00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:26.119 and a lot of people say, look, I'm no different 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:29.359 from everybody else. It's quite hard to leave 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.900 that to lead that perfectly, you know, clean 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:35.039 living lifestyle that's good for the planet. 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.079 How about yourself? How do you feel? Yeah, I'm 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:39.640 going to say exactly what you just said is like 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:41.920 by no means am I perfect. And I think it's about 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.059 trying to make very targeted Targeted choices 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:47.259 where you can where you've got questions and 00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:51.279 the you know the ability. You're going to struggle 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.240 to bring people along where you go you must do 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:55.079 this or we must do this kind of thing versus 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.599 saying you know consider what your opportunities 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.099 are here in the places so for me I try to minimize 00:21:00.099 --> 00:21:02.500 any kind of as much air travel as I can give 00:21:02.500 --> 00:21:04.420 my job you know usually has like quite a global 00:21:04.420 --> 00:21:07.039 focus a lot of meetings can be done you know 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.019 remotely these days so try to optimize for that. 00:21:10.609 --> 00:21:12.750 I get public transport into work every day, which 00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:14.250 is fairly easy because I live in London. But 00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:16.390 even if it wasn't, I would try to optimize for 00:21:16.390 --> 00:21:18.910 that. If I go rock climbing, I have this love 00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:21.349 of the outdoors. And so often, even if I'm going 00:21:21.349 --> 00:21:23.130 to someone really far flung, I would still try 00:21:23.130 --> 00:21:25.630 to use public transport as much as I possibly 00:21:25.630 --> 00:21:27.410 can, even though you're going to someone that's 00:21:27.410 --> 00:21:29.210 quite remote, even if it makes it longer and 00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:31.470 more difficult. And there were loads of things 00:21:31.470 --> 00:21:34.230 I could do, I think, to make my life more sustainable. 00:21:34.939 --> 00:21:36.920 I think it's just about making targeted choices 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:39.259 that work for you in your life and not trying 00:21:39.259 --> 00:21:40.980 to take this approach of bringing everyone down 00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:43.279 if they've not done everything. Thank you and 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:44.940 I think one of my other guests once said it's 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:47.420 just not being too preachy because being told 00:21:47.420 --> 00:21:50.579 what to do all the time and understanding that 00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:52.779 we all have responsibility yes but we also have 00:21:52.779 --> 00:21:55.420 a voice so we can all be the advocates too. So 00:21:55.420 --> 00:21:57.839 that's fantastic. And I want one final question 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.079 in a very brief question. So we're running out 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.740 of time. Direct air capture will hopefully be 00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:05.440 part of the conversation, you know, in not in 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.599 a few years time. But what next for you then 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:10.940 and for Mission Zero Technologies? Where do you 00:22:10.940 --> 00:22:14.259 see it and the company in your own work in 10 00:22:14.259 --> 00:22:17.079 to 20 years, which is I appreciate broad time 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:20.470 scale time frame. No I mean we we actually talk 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:22.349 about what we're trying to achieve in like a 00:22:22.349 --> 00:22:24.549 third year time frame right so almost hubristic 00:22:24.549 --> 00:22:26.349 to stand up in front of the company and say you 00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:27.650 know we're a startup and we've got a certain 00:22:27.650 --> 00:22:30.150 amount of cash flow but you know our plan is 00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:32.769 for like the next 30 years. So really over the 00:22:32.769 --> 00:22:35.109 next sort of 10 -20 years the goal for us over 00:22:35.109 --> 00:22:38.309 the 2020s is to show the world you can defossilize 00:22:38.309 --> 00:22:41.349 a wide range of processes by integrating sustainable 00:22:41.349 --> 00:22:43.589 CO2 from the atmosphere into that so whether 00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:46.190 that's making carbon negative building materials 00:22:46.190 --> 00:22:49.900 that aggregates roads, pavements, concrete blocks 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:52.660 that also lock away atmospheric CO2 as a solid. 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.119 Great opportunity there. I'm sure you can geological 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:58.579 sequestration. You could potentially make drinks 00:22:58.579 --> 00:23:02.039 fizzy from the air around you. So just demonstrating 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.640 that it's real, making it real in people's minds, 00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:07.319 building on that momentum, then moving into getting 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.670 to much larger. deployments where removing vast 00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:13.369 volumes of CO2 out of the atmosphere on a yearly 00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:16.029 basis in the 2030s and then looking to scale 00:23:16.029 --> 00:23:18.529 that up as we come into the 2040s and the 2050s 00:23:18.529 --> 00:23:21.769 to the point where you are having you know a 00:23:21.769 --> 00:23:23.950 massive impact on the amount of CO2 that is entering 00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:26.690 but also being removed out of the atmosphere 00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:29.150 effectively and circularized. Super, thank you. 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:32.339 Well for somebody who I think you once said you 00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:34.180 didn't see yourself setting up a company, you've 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:36.160 got a great business, you seem to have a really 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.640 great fluid business plan there and an incredible 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.539 vision to share and thank you so much for joining 00:23:41.539 --> 00:23:45.799 our podcast today to Nick Chadwick from Mission 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.400 Zero Technologies. There can be no doubt that 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.200 climate change is the biggest challenge of our 00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.660 time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions 00:23:52.660 --> 00:23:55.059 to slow global warming. Today, we must act for 00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:56.960 tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.559 and future impacts of climate change. Today, 00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:01.819 we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:24:01.819 --> 00:24:04.339 on our climate commitments. Today, we work for 00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:06.599 tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe to 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.059 our podcast channels and please do send your 00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:12.200 views and emails to podcast at salixfinance .co 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:17.279 .uk. So thank you once again to Nick. You've 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.839 been listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:23.619 a podcast from Salix. For more information about 00:24:23.619 --> 00:24:27.099 our work and to find more content, please visit 00:24:27.099 --> 00:24:31.299 salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.