WEBVTT 00:00:07.049 --> 00:00:10.529 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.570 a podcast from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on 00:00:14.570 --> 00:00:17.350 Climate Change, our collective challenge. Welcome 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:20.010 to the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah 00:00:20.010 --> 00:00:22.289 Walker and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:22.289 --> 00:00:24.829 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:24.829 --> 00:00:29.190 are talking about. Welcome to Asif Ghaffar. Asif 00:00:29.190 --> 00:00:32.520 is a born business innovator. He completed his 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:36.380 degree in business studies in 1992 at the University 00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:39.280 of Bradford, and I believe continues to support 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:42.579 the university as a donor to the Bradford Futures 00:00:42.579 --> 00:00:45.920 Fund, supporting students' challenges in assessing 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:49.140 and remaining in higher education. Following 00:00:49.140 --> 00:00:52.359 his time at university, Azif has held many senior 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:56.100 roles, including Managing Director for AME Investments 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:58.780 and Non -Executive Director at Wandel. He is 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:02.520 currently the CEO of BEV, the largest electrical 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.540 vehicle charging network across Greater Manchester 00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:09.040 and co -founder of Aduna, which develops new 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.459 infrastructure in the mobility, telecommunications 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:15.930 and energy sectors. So welcome to Azif. Hi. Nice 00:01:15.930 --> 00:01:17.849 to meet you. Thank you and thank you very much 00:01:17.849 --> 00:01:20.900 for your time today. Can we start by talking 00:01:20.900 --> 00:01:23.359 a little bit about your career and what shapes 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:27.019 your vision? What motivates you? I know at university 00:01:27.019 --> 00:01:29.079 I think you've been quoted as saying you weren't 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:30.959 too sure what you were going to do or where you 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:33.420 were going to and who you were going to become 00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:36.319 and I know you sought internships and I think 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.379 you had a very pivotal and fundamental moment 00:01:39.379 --> 00:01:41.799 when you had an internship with Midland Bank 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.799 which is of course now HSBC which I think you've 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.739 said changed your life. and you remained in banking 00:01:47.739 --> 00:01:50.400 for five years but tell us in your own words 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.079 how did you get started and what motivates you? 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.659 So I think for me this the excitement is normally 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:01.900 led by quite interesting challenges and having 00:02:01.900 --> 00:02:04.579 done the internship which you refer to one of 00:02:04.579 --> 00:02:08.639 the final year projects was to focus on a company 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:11.719 or institution and make some sort of forward 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:16.400 predictions and whether I had the glass ball 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.680 to look into, but my prediction was Midland Bank 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.960 would no longer exist on its own and it would 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.199 be subsumed into a much larger international. 00:02:25.449 --> 00:02:28.710 operations and Convenient for me in my final 00:02:28.710 --> 00:02:31.750 year. That's what happened So I've actually submitted 00:02:31.750 --> 00:02:34.009 my paper and then that happened and then I got 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:35.990 quite good high marks for that which was quite 00:02:35.990 --> 00:02:38.729 great but in terms of Opportunities and look 00:02:38.729 --> 00:02:41.129 at you know, all of the various roles I've done 00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:44.370 and the areas where I focused It's always been 00:02:44.370 --> 00:02:47.189 about building something new and trying to lean 00:02:47.189 --> 00:02:50.629 into future development So in Amy one of the 00:02:50.629 --> 00:02:53.990 big problems the UK has and still has today is 00:02:53.990 --> 00:02:56.949 what you do with waste household waste, commercial 00:02:56.949 --> 00:03:00.229 waste. So in Amy, I was part of the team who 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:02.930 helped build out the strategy and then build 00:03:02.930 --> 00:03:05.750 out the business to look at how you solve that 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:09.409 problem, building waste facilities all the way 00:03:09.409 --> 00:03:12.990 through to how you sort out collections at home 00:03:12.990 --> 00:03:16.129 and so on. Actually, if I fast forward to 2015 00:03:16.129 --> 00:03:20.550 -16, I got very interested in how technology 00:03:20.550 --> 00:03:25.370 and the shift in energy is going to make a massive 00:03:25.370 --> 00:03:29.229 difference to the way we move from A to B because 00:03:29.229 --> 00:03:31.770 you know for the last 50 60 years nothing's really 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:34.729 evolved it's always been the same and that this 00:03:34.729 --> 00:03:37.969 was a pivotal moment I thought and pivotal moments 00:03:37.969 --> 00:03:40.789 and disruption creates opportunity and this creates 00:03:40.789 --> 00:03:44.370 opportunity. And indeed when I research you and 00:03:44.370 --> 00:03:49.639 look at your work I do read the word disruption 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:52.039 and disruptor quite a lot. So I know that's going 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:53.580 to be a bit of a theme and I'm going to come 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:56.500 back to that in a moment. But from your experience 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:59.400 across mobility and energy, what do you see as 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:01.960 the biggest opportunities right now for businesses 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:05.479 to contribute to net zero? Interestingly, I've 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:08.080 been trying to ban the word net zero. That's 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.680 probably a good starting point because the opportunity 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:15.939 of mobility isn't necessarily always linked to 00:04:15.939 --> 00:04:18.339 net zero. It's actually linked to the future 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:21.180 technology and the way things are developing, 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:25.279 whether it's AI or whether it's autonomous vehicles 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.379 or whether it's any combination around the way 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:31.699 we move from A to B. So I got quite interested 00:04:31.699 --> 00:04:35.319 in 2015 thinking autonomous vehicles are coming. 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:37.800 Let's get ourselves ready. This is a great business 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:41.810 opportunity. probably slightly too early and 00:04:41.810 --> 00:04:44.610 then you kind of roll back a bit and go actually 00:04:44.610 --> 00:04:47.430 if you break that down the various pieces which 00:04:47.430 --> 00:04:50.850 could be interesting was putting telecommunications 00:04:50.850 --> 00:04:55.050 on highways from A to B all the way through to 00:04:55.050 --> 00:04:59.089 electric vehicle charging and each of these are 00:04:59.089 --> 00:05:02.670 new sectors and the element of disruption is 00:05:02.670 --> 00:05:06.569 they break the crossing boundaries so telecommunications 00:05:06.569 --> 00:05:09.370 are traditionally in a very straight line highway 00:05:09.370 --> 00:05:11.870 management in a straight line, car production 00:05:11.870 --> 00:05:14.949 and the OEMs in a very straight line and what 00:05:14.949 --> 00:05:17.529 we're finding now if you look at the car manufacturers 00:05:17.529 --> 00:05:20.670 they've slightly lost control of this market 00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:23.449 because they haven't got control of any of the 00:05:23.449 --> 00:05:26.230 key points apart from the metal bashing at the 00:05:26.230 --> 00:05:29.730 front which is producing the vehicle. That disruption 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:32.670 is how I perceive the opportunity and it's a 00:05:32.670 --> 00:05:36.769 good example of how this change of technology 00:05:37.019 --> 00:05:40.399 rather than net zero is what's driving these 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.600 massive opportunities here. And in terms of business 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:48.839 there's the opportunity there's the sustainability 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:53.040 and you've seen success and you've developed 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:57.980 success but sustainability and commercial success 00:05:57.980 --> 00:06:01.800 are they in your experience of planning your 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.600 own businesses are they compatible sustainability 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.079 then and being a commercial success? I think 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.980 compatibility is done by your inner core to an 00:06:12.980 --> 00:06:15.540 extent here. It's what you start off believing 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:18.600 is the right thing to be doing. So you have to 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:22.100 be blind to not see the damage we're doing to 00:06:22.100 --> 00:06:24.279 our environment and the damage we're going to 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.279 leave to future generations if we don't change 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.800 the way we operate. You talk to people about 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:35.800 the 50s and the peace fog in London. you know 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.040 people then they brought in legislation they 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:41.399 brought in change in how people heated their 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:44.579 homes. This is just a continuation of this story. 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:49.459 If you set your business compass correctly and 00:06:49.459 --> 00:06:52.459 establish some core basic principles which are 00:06:52.459 --> 00:06:55.300 about building something which is fair we have 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:59.100 a you know when we set out to build the BEV one 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:01.160 of the first things we set out was we want to 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:04.759 have an employee owned business. And in that 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:07.720 environment, that became a core principle. By 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:10.620 the very nature, I always say to the team, let's 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:13.759 not think about the fact that it's sustainable 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.480 because we're in EV. It's what else can we do? 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.000 So when we built our four -core model, which 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.720 is our Manchester charging oasis, we thought 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:25.939 about the individual steps we could do to make 00:07:25.939 --> 00:07:29.459 that actually become part of your business compass. 00:07:30.220 --> 00:07:35.329 So planting, drainage. reuse of water, the materials 00:07:35.329 --> 00:07:39.170 used on site, the ongoing sustainability of that 00:07:39.170 --> 00:07:42.250 as well over the next 20 years and how we can 00:07:42.250 --> 00:07:45.689 actually manage that and create a positive outcome 00:07:45.689 --> 00:07:48.829 plus also involve the community. We didn't go 00:07:48.829 --> 00:07:50.990 into that project and just ignore the neighbours, 00:07:51.389 --> 00:07:53.629 we actually brought them in, we brought the councillors 00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:57.089 in, we invited people to events. uh all of the 00:07:57.089 --> 00:07:59.230 things which we weren't required to do from a 00:07:59.230 --> 00:08:01.990 planning perspective we did because again from 00:08:01.990 --> 00:08:04.970 a business compass sustainability and getting 00:08:04.970 --> 00:08:07.730 people involved people are interested there's 00:08:07.730 --> 00:08:10.089 ways of getting that kind of engagement and really 00:08:10.089 --> 00:08:12.990 creating that business compass and setting it 00:08:12.990 --> 00:08:14.949 right and that's really interesting that you 00:08:14.949 --> 00:08:18.209 say that so talking about electric cars most 00:08:18.209 --> 00:08:20.709 specifically and that kind of disruption does 00:08:20.709 --> 00:08:23.110 it mean and the project you've just alluded to 00:08:23.110 --> 00:08:27.899 does it mean that we are facing a future without 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:30.660 the I suppose the petrol stations if you like 00:08:30.660 --> 00:08:33.659 that we're so used to seeing on on our on our 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:35.460 along our high straight or on the motorway I 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:37.980 mean it's a completely different idea of how 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:41.159 that looks isn't it yeah it's like it's like 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.779 asking um someone in 1900 you know where are 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:47.259 you going to be where are you going to be taking 00:08:47.259 --> 00:08:49.860 this thing called a motor vehicle uh are you 00:08:49.860 --> 00:08:53.100 going to take it to a barn to go and refuel uh 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:55.960 the answer was No, because there's no logic in 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:59.740 that going forward. So this disruption creates 00:08:59.740 --> 00:09:03.360 a massive opportunity to create something different 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.340 and an experience which is different. So people 00:09:06.340 --> 00:09:10.159 still think about traveling from A to B long 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:12.980 distances. I have to stop on a motorway services. 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.639 I watched really boring documentaries. I watched 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:19.720 a documentary about the first motorways and motorway 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:23.639 services on BBC Four. Fascinating. But actually 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:25.840 people, you know, go in there to have a day out 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.879 and have lunch and dinner and watch the odd car 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.460 go past on the M1. That was exciting then. But 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:35.019 now there's never going to be enough space and 00:09:35.019 --> 00:09:37.799 enough power for that model to work going forward. 00:09:37.899 --> 00:09:40.480 So what's the next model? The next model is at 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:45.480 every junction, we have a coffee stop or a food 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:49.490 stop or a shopping stop. people are able to charge 00:09:49.490 --> 00:09:51.830 and it kind of fits in around what they're doing 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:54.570 on that journey at the point when they need to 00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:56.950 go the loo or grab a coffee or change a nappy 00:09:56.950 --> 00:10:01.429 or walk the dog and so on so there are rare times 00:10:01.429 --> 00:10:04.389 in your life where you're able to actually create 00:10:04.389 --> 00:10:07.129 something which is going to have a hundred year 00:10:07.129 --> 00:10:10.230 life going forward or a 50 year life going forward 00:10:10.230 --> 00:10:12.509 and that's where we are honestly that's where 00:10:12.509 --> 00:10:15.429 i believe we are sitting today and that responsibility 00:10:15.429 --> 00:10:18.090 which is why i go back to that business compass 00:10:18.090 --> 00:10:21.309 of setting that right and thinking about it in 00:10:21.309 --> 00:10:24.129 the right way because it's going to have an impact 00:10:24.129 --> 00:10:27.309 not just on what we do as a business but also 00:10:27.309 --> 00:10:29.909 guide the sector and guide this market and how 00:10:29.909 --> 00:10:33.029 it kind of builds out in the UK and maybe elsewhere 00:10:33.029 --> 00:10:36.210 in the world. I hear a lot from people worried 00:10:36.210 --> 00:10:38.149 about and we will talk about obviously Greater 00:10:38.149 --> 00:10:40.190 Manchester and the work going on there but hear 00:10:40.190 --> 00:10:43.929 a lot of people who are worried about that buying 00:10:43.929 --> 00:10:46.919 or acquiring an electric. vehicle because of 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.139 that lack of charging infrastructure and being 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:52.620 making that long journey on the motorway wherever 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:54.799 they might be going and worrying about will they 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.200 be able to charge and or will there be a big 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.940 queue and will it take me longer to charge and 00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:03.200 then you started talking about hundreds of years 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.679 ago when people might sit and watch cars which 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.649 gets me thinking about which takes me into another 00:11:08.649 --> 00:11:11.549 whole realm of transport being in the airport 00:11:11.549 --> 00:11:14.950 and my father was saying to me, I just go to 00:11:14.950 --> 00:11:18.009 the, sometimes I've gone to the airport arrivals 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:21.190 just to watch the people arrive and meet their 00:11:21.190 --> 00:11:23.029 family and friends. So that's got me thinking 00:11:23.029 --> 00:11:26.269 about something else altogether. But going back 00:11:26.269 --> 00:11:27.950 to, because it is a wonderful place to be in 00:11:27.950 --> 00:11:32.009 the arrivals at the airport. And I get it, I 00:11:32.009 --> 00:11:34.169 completely get that. So can we talk a moment 00:11:34.169 --> 00:11:38.970 about your work? in transport for Greater Manchester, 00:11:39.370 --> 00:11:43.029 how you see the electric vehicle charging infrastructure 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:46.090 evolving to support where we're going on this 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:49.509 journey in Manchester. Yeah, so we started off 00:11:49.509 --> 00:11:51.929 life in Greater Manchester. That was our first 00:11:51.929 --> 00:11:54.590 contract working with Transport for Greater Manchester 00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:58.700 and we actually upgraded their network. they 00:11:58.700 --> 00:12:01.659 received central government funding so we upgraded 00:12:01.659 --> 00:12:05.080 the network and then now we manage that and then 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:08.259 over time we've added extra bits on so taxi charging, 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:11.600 car clubs have been added on and there's been 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.399 some expansion change in the existing network 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:18.399 as well. The idea which and I'm not just saying 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.299 this because they were our first customer but 00:12:20.299 --> 00:12:23.460 I love our customer in Greater Manchester because 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.580 They had a very clear idea, clear strategy and 00:12:27.580 --> 00:12:30.080 also knew what their role was. And they were 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:32.720 therefore very clear to me what my role was. 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.039 And my role was you go out, you're good at building 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.840 networks, running networks and getting high performance 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:42.340 and getting customer engagement. And their role 00:12:42.340 --> 00:12:46.259 was to set the policy, set the strategy and then 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:49.100 create space for that to actually happen and 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:51.720 give guidance and support. And so that whole 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:55.379 contract is a contract not just between us and 00:12:55.379 --> 00:12:58.240 the public authority you've got the 10 local 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.379 authorities thrown in but for me it's with the 00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:02.779 residents of Greater Manchester because how do 00:13:02.779 --> 00:13:05.519 you create that change and how do you create 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.919 an environment where you know they were one of 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.480 the early adopters as a as a region I started 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.480 off looking at Greater Manchester like a country 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.059 in itself and saying we've got nearly three and 00:13:16.059 --> 00:13:18.500 a half four million people how do you get them 00:13:18.500 --> 00:13:20.779 engaged plus you got nearly half a million to 00:13:20.779 --> 00:13:24.639 a million visitors coming in on a regular basis. 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.539 We talk about reducing car usage on the road. 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:31.159 Unfortunately, the network of public services 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.779 isn't great and it's going to take a while. So 00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:36.639 we need that alternative. That alternative can 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.700 be something which people can really get engaged 00:13:39.700 --> 00:13:42.389 with. We knew that the government funding had 00:13:42.389 --> 00:13:45.250 limitations, so we then worked with Trafford 00:13:45.250 --> 00:13:48.909 Council, Stockport Council, and we followed Noah's 00:13:48.909 --> 00:13:53.409 Ark principle, which was we took a ward, and 00:13:53.409 --> 00:13:55.929 we worked out a distance of where we should at 00:13:55.929 --> 00:14:00.230 least try and get minimum number of charges in 00:14:00.230 --> 00:14:03.490 to be a minimum, hence Noah's Ark element, but 00:14:03.490 --> 00:14:05.590 try and see if we can put more in in that particular 00:14:05.590 --> 00:14:09.389 location, and then work your way through all 00:14:09.389 --> 00:14:11.730 of the borough and make sure you've got nice 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:15.769 spread of rapid, ultra rapid and AC charging. 00:14:15.990 --> 00:14:19.250 So for the various dwell behavior and activity, 00:14:20.029 --> 00:14:24.090 we had long conversations, shall we add in overstay 00:14:24.090 --> 00:14:26.269 charges? I'm like, no, this is bonkers. This 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:29.149 is the stage where we really want people to get 00:14:29.149 --> 00:14:31.769 engaged and get quite excited. So instead we 00:14:31.769 --> 00:14:35.009 did launches. If you know the weather of Manchester, 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:38.830 I remember one launch in Trafford where when 00:14:38.830 --> 00:14:41.389 I got on the train to come home, I literally 00:14:41.389 --> 00:14:44.529 was taking water out of my shoe. It was that 00:14:44.529 --> 00:14:46.889 wet that particular day. Well, we did launches. 00:14:47.009 --> 00:14:50.610 We created noise. We got people engaged. We did 00:14:50.610 --> 00:14:53.669 free charging days where people could come and 00:14:53.669 --> 00:14:56.389 charge for free and try it out. We went and stood 00:14:56.389 --> 00:14:58.830 in car parks and showed people how to do this. 00:14:59.149 --> 00:15:04.159 It was really a great way of getting gave us 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:07.179 loads of experience, loads of understanding, 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:11.100 but fundamentally really turned our focus from 00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:14.019 coming from an infrastructure space, really to 00:15:14.019 --> 00:15:17.639 recognize this is all about customer and customer 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.960 behavior. If you get that right, we're a winner 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.500 and the regions we're in will be massive winners. 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:26.299 If you get that wrong, everyone's a loser and 00:15:26.299 --> 00:15:29.080 this is not going to work. That really creates 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:31.259 that shift in the way we're thinking about this. 00:15:31.419 --> 00:15:34.059 which is why now if you ask me what's my focus, 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:36.279 I may have come from infrastructure, but I'm 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:40.259 100 % want to be the number one charge point 00:15:40.259 --> 00:15:43.480 operator in the UK from a customer perspective. 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.100 That's my real target, the goal as a business. 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:48.120 And when you go into the community, because you've 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:51.379 mentioned community a few times now and the customer, 00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:54.019 obviously customer is key business, but you're 00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:56.759 going into the community and a lot of those people 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:01.019 might not ever become customers, but what What 00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:04.899 are you hearing from them when you've moved, 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:06.659 when you've been out on the ground? What do you 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:09.419 hear from people about this change in infrastructure 00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:13.820 and this disruption? I have spent a lot of time 00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:18.840 in car parks just lurking around. I make everything, 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:22.659 so in our team culture, it's everybody who joins, 00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:26.799 early doors, you go to a site, you go and charge. 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:29.799 Some people, we film what they're doing to just 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.480 observe. what doesn't work and works. Then on 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.620 a regular basis, we have something called customer 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:38.679 squads, people around talking to customers. We 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.000 go to our sites, we go to our competitor sites, 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:42.659 but we're just trying to learn and understand. 00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:46.120 What we really hear is changing. The conversation 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:50.539 number one was a very forgiving customer base. 00:16:50.909 --> 00:16:53.470 you know if that didn't work oh why didn't that 00:16:53.470 --> 00:16:55.789 work and lots of conversation but why it didn't 00:16:55.789 --> 00:16:58.509 work the next wave of customers and we are getting 00:16:58.509 --> 00:17:02.210 into early mass adoption stage now that customer 00:17:02.210 --> 00:17:04.930 isn't forgiving because why should they be when 00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:07.430 you buy a mobile phone and you use your mobile 00:17:07.430 --> 00:17:10.190 phone and the apps the app doesn't work you don't 00:17:10.190 --> 00:17:12.609 say oh it doesn't matter it's a new it's a new 00:17:12.609 --> 00:17:15.089 sector therefore i'll be forgiving you're actually 00:17:15.089 --> 00:17:18.210 quite angry or quite upset And to actually make 00:17:18.210 --> 00:17:19.869 the customer experience the best, you really 00:17:19.869 --> 00:17:22.430 got to be in the weeds with the customer and 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:26.170 try and solve every driver's experience and try 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:28.990 and get it to exceptional. Because it isn't exceptional 00:17:28.990 --> 00:17:31.970 today. Nobody was delivering exceptional. I will 00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:34.829 include ourselves in that. But that's our goal 00:17:34.829 --> 00:17:38.730 here. And going back to that technology, and 00:17:38.730 --> 00:17:40.710 it's not just the charging infrastructure, it's 00:17:40.710 --> 00:17:42.390 not just the technology you're working with. 00:17:42.650 --> 00:17:45.750 But people in general, we love technology, anything 00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:48.250 that moves us forward. But there's a lot of technology 00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:51.569 out there that doesn't work, as you say, as well 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:55.470 as it could. And some things they break, they 00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:57.690 don't get fixed, or we're finding work rounds. 00:17:58.069 --> 00:18:00.890 So is that an issue for your business on a practical 00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:03.210 basis, or that kind of technology that doesn't 00:18:03.210 --> 00:18:07.190 quite work? What I worry about is water tanking 00:18:07.190 --> 00:18:11.029 on the parking space. So when a driver gets out, 00:18:11.210 --> 00:18:13.670 you're soaked and your feet are soaked. I worry 00:18:13.670 --> 00:18:16.930 about the signage. We've gone through every single 00:18:16.930 --> 00:18:20.069 step of what that customer, the physical customer 00:18:20.069 --> 00:18:23.069 journey is. and looked at what do we need to 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:25.049 change and how do we need to adopt that we're 00:18:25.049 --> 00:18:27.609 now moving on to the next step which is wayfinding 00:18:27.609 --> 00:18:29.849 so we're spending quite a bit of time talking 00:18:29.849 --> 00:18:32.589 and discussing and agreeing what is it and talking 00:18:32.589 --> 00:18:35.490 to customers actually asking you know what is 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:37.789 it you want on wayfinding whether it's wayfinding 00:18:37.789 --> 00:18:41.029 to the site or on site we're also looking to 00:18:41.029 --> 00:18:45.309 roll out hopefully on some sites totems we've 00:18:45.309 --> 00:18:47.710 done the big one on Manchester charging oasis 00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:50.099 customers love it because it just tells you something 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:52.200 really basic called the price. No one knows what 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.259 they're paying. And it tells you that very clearly. 00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:58.460 And then there's a whole digital discovery piece 00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:01.339 which we're continually testing. What we're finding 00:19:01.339 --> 00:19:04.599 now isn't those brilliant basics aren't set. 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.079 I think we've got a nice line where we actually 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.539 are achieving. What we're now finding is things 00:19:10.539 --> 00:19:13.559 which you haven't really thought about go wrong. 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.660 Last week we had an outage. which is a rolling 00:19:17.660 --> 00:19:20.700 outage for eight hours, what was that down to? 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:24.859 Because the SIMS in the certain type of charges 00:19:24.859 --> 00:19:29.059 had had an update from the SIMS service provider. 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:31.059 I didn't even think that would be a problem. 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:33.220 Who'd come up with that as a problem? But it 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:37.279 suddenly became my problem and my network. I'll 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.740 be like, what's going on here? And I'll solve 00:19:39.740 --> 00:19:42.880 it. So we have solved it. We put in two SIMS 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:46.240 now in every charger. But this is the bit now 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.579 where we're kind of working our way through to 00:19:48.579 --> 00:19:51.339 get to exceptional. For me, exceptional is a 00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:55.059 driver goes to a charger first time, first time 00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:57.819 they try and pay, first time to try and connect, 00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:02.549 seamless, and actually it's so unmemorable. as 00:20:02.549 --> 00:20:05.450 an activity that they remember the coffee or 00:20:05.450 --> 00:20:07.730 the burger or the shopping, they don't remember 00:20:07.730 --> 00:20:09.970 the charging. The experience of that charging. 00:20:10.410 --> 00:20:13.029 Now there's a huge amount of lessons there for 00:20:13.029 --> 00:20:17.549 other businesses and not just the transport business 00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:20.630 but there's a lot of brilliant basics there that 00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:22.549 could be applied particularly when you talk about 00:20:22.549 --> 00:20:25.150 the customer and the customer's count and going 00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:28.210 through that whole journey with them. What lessons 00:20:28.210 --> 00:20:31.279 from your experience with BEV could be applied 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.500 to other sectors and Dare I mention particularly 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:41.980 when aiming for net zero? Well I think the first 00:20:41.980 --> 00:20:44.920 thing is I think unfortunately whether we like 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:46.900 it or not people are being turned off by the 00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:49.680 word net zero so that's why I've kind of not 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.190 really used it because You know, when I buy a 00:20:53.190 --> 00:20:55.690 vehicle, whether I bought a vehicle 20 years 00:20:55.690 --> 00:20:59.289 ago or a year ago, I buy it because I think I'm 00:20:59.289 --> 00:21:01.170 going to look good in it and it's going to get 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.930 me from A to B and it gives me some happiness 00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:07.650 for all the hard work you've done and so on and 00:21:07.650 --> 00:21:12.670 so on. I think a lot of people, and as a by -product, 00:21:13.190 --> 00:21:16.250 I'm buying electric because I believe in the 00:21:16.250 --> 00:21:19.490 challenge we've got in the environment. and so 00:21:19.490 --> 00:21:21.950 it's important that's why I'm kind of I think 00:21:21.950 --> 00:21:23.670 there's so many other things which kind of get 00:21:23.670 --> 00:21:25.769 you to that point before you start worrying about 00:21:25.769 --> 00:21:28.809 the net zero piece but from a from a customer 00:21:28.809 --> 00:21:33.230 perspective I think the and I we look at other 00:21:33.230 --> 00:21:36.710 sectors ourselves yeah so we're looking so I 00:21:36.710 --> 00:21:39.289 McDonald's is I've used McDonald's as an example 00:21:39.289 --> 00:21:43.210 with my team the McDonald's experience is now 00:21:43.210 --> 00:21:47.049 you go in you touch a screen you go to the counter, 00:21:47.369 --> 00:21:49.869 you get your bag of food and you stuff your face 00:21:49.869 --> 00:21:53.589 and you do that three minutes and you don't there's 00:21:53.589 --> 00:21:57.470 no it's a very seamless process of getting and 00:21:57.470 --> 00:22:02.049 eating the end activity there which is the quality 00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:04.630 of the food which is hot which has been delivered 00:22:04.630 --> 00:22:08.490 well for me that customer experience we're still 00:22:08.490 --> 00:22:11.069 on this journey i just still i still don't think 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:14.539 i've been able to define 100 % sent where I want 00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:17.380 to get to but that's not I'm not I'm not worried 00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:20.160 about that because if you remember when a Nokia 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:23.619 phone came out we all got very excited by the 00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:27.299 snake game and if we look back on it now and 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:29.819 think my gosh I'm so basic to where we've got 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:32.880 the phones to today but that but at that point 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.759 I achieved customer satisfaction and much in 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.680 the world now if I can get all the basics right 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:46.529 and get to that the basic first time charge experience 00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:50.549 and as people can find my site I've got to my 00:22:50.549 --> 00:22:53.789 snake game but I also need to have an eye on 00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:56.109 that actually I'm going to ultimately end up 00:22:56.109 --> 00:23:00.890 with an app at some point here as well. So it's 00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:02.289 always looking isn't it? It's always looking 00:23:02.289 --> 00:23:04.990 for the next the next advancement how you can 00:23:04.990 --> 00:23:08.250 make it better for everybody and obviously when 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:10.410 you say you when you are buying a car you look 00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:13.099 for obviously something that is You gonna feel 00:23:13.099 --> 00:23:16.460 good about but obviously that also is is kinda 00:23:16.460 --> 00:23:19.579 I suppose to our planet now I was asked this 00:23:19.579 --> 00:23:22.299 question to guests because we've talked about 00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:25.740 sustainability we've talked about success and 00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:28.900 driving things forward but what sustainable look 00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:31.420 like for you in your own lifestyle I think you 00:23:31.420 --> 00:23:34.660 say you obviously drive an electric car but what 00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:37.259 tell us a little bit about your own green if 00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:41.380 you like habits and how do you maintain. a sustainable 00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:44.660 lifestyle. Oh, I've got a big confession to make. 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:53.019 I don't drive a car. Uh -huh. Wow. I ride a bike, 00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:57.579 I go on the bus, I go on the train, and I borrow 00:23:57.579 --> 00:24:00.880 my mom's electric car. Okay. So it's quite, because 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.440 our head office is in Manchester, so when I'm 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.599 up in Manchester, I stay with my mom. Yes. So 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.420 it's gone all the way back to being 18, 19. I'm 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:12.400 like, Mom, can I borrow the car tomorrow? I need 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.359 to go to ABC. And if not, I hire an electric 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.640 car if I can't do that. We're quite close to 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:24.099 the airport. But now my Your life choices around 00:24:24.099 --> 00:24:28.140 sustainability have to be also replicated in 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:32.079 your work choices here 100%. I think for me it's 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.240 about sustainability, it's also about the community 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.940 piece. The two go hand in hand because it's no 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:40.799 use me being an island on my own being sustainable 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.079 if we're not really able to take. Whether it's 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:45.859 with my working with my neighbors, I do quite 00:24:45.859 --> 00:24:49.299 a lot of stuff on my street with the neighbors, 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.119 which is quite unusual living in London because 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.660 you normally don't know your neighbors. But in 00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:58.539 the same in the work environment, I will go back 00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:01.180 to the employee -owned element. The employee 00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:04.960 -owned element wasn't, the idea was very simple. 00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.359 that hopefully one day this business will be 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.480 successful and it won't be the two co -founders 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.559 who drove that, it's everybody who's done blood, 00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:18.200 sweat, tears to get to that point and therefore 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.140 trying to create a degree of sustainability in 00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:23.319 their lives going forward but at the same time 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:25.839 pushing them and giving them opportunity to be 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.740 able to grow, which is as important. But in daily 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:34.660 life, I kind of live a very non -preachy, basic 00:25:34.940 --> 00:25:37.640 I'm so busy, I think probably I'm so busy with 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:39.720 work I can't really judge what else I'm doing. 00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:43.880 I think that's the key is not to be too preachy 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:48.640 about it as many people do tell us and it's obviously 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.319 very important to you to give back because you 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.900 support Bradford, you know you support the Bradford 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.779 Futures Fund for students who might be struggling 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:00.470 and you've talked about a community, you've talked 00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:02.710 about your neighbours, so that's obviously very 00:26:02.710 --> 00:26:05.109 important for you and the way you move forward 00:26:05.109 --> 00:26:09.029 in your own life and your career and your business. 00:26:09.730 --> 00:26:12.990 So it is a success but making it a success as 00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:17.509 you say for everybody, you might be leading it 00:26:17.509 --> 00:26:20.450 but it is a success that everybody can have a 00:26:20.450 --> 00:26:26.269 share of. That seems exceptionally valid but 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:29.160 But what do you think next for you? Because we've 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:31.460 talked about BVM for your career. What are the 00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:34.660 next steps? I think just touching on the point 00:26:34.660 --> 00:26:36.539 there you make, I think one of the things which 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:39.839 are really important to me is, and you've seen 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.460 this recently in the UK, and we've seen this 00:26:42.460 --> 00:26:45.420 around the world, if you don't, if you just take 00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:48.900 a very one -dimensional view of yourself, you're 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:51.500 going to end up with events like Brexit, and 00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:54.500 I'm not going on either side of the shock of 00:26:54.500 --> 00:26:58.640 those events. or the shock of other events similar 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:00.380 to that, which have kind of gone, oh my God, 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.680 where did that come from? A Trump coming in or 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.259 an extreme of what was normal in a very center 00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:10.480 world, because people are not thinking in the 00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:13.059 broader sense of taking people with you on that 00:27:13.059 --> 00:27:15.660 journey. And that's important to me. So even 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.859 as this step, oh my God, I've got so much more 00:27:18.859 --> 00:27:23.440 to do in this step of the business that I always 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.569 say, I'm probably the worst person to be involved 00:27:26.569 --> 00:27:30.930 in something which is pretty normal. I get really 00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:34.690 bored and quite annoying and even when I left 00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:38.390 Amy I had some time out for six months as part 00:27:38.390 --> 00:27:43.589 of the normal gardening period and so on. Day 00:27:43.589 --> 00:27:47.130 one I looked out the window and I was like God 00:27:47.130 --> 00:27:50.089 there's a car moved those people are going to 00:27:50.089 --> 00:27:55.210 school. Day two intervention uh from family and 00:27:55.210 --> 00:27:57.769 friends was just you need you're gonna go mad 00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:01.150 you need to do something so i put on a bit like 00:28:01.150 --> 00:28:03.150 reginald perrin was the weapon but he was now 00:28:03.150 --> 00:28:06.519 he's put on his i put on the suit I went to go 00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:08.859 and just have coffees and lunches and talk about 00:28:08.859 --> 00:28:11.500 the next thing, which is kind of where this started 00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:14.619 from. And so I spent six months just talking 00:28:14.619 --> 00:28:17.279 to people about the next thing, about I could 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.619 do this, this looks interesting, what do you 00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:22.680 think about this and so on. But for me, the opportunity 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.160 here is we are really at the beginning. And the 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.359 beginning is, you know, for our business, we've 00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:31.279 been very focused on being a public charge point 00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.140 operator in Great Britain. That's kind of our 00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:38.390 model. but actually within that, to get to that 00:28:38.390 --> 00:28:42.130 exceptional customer experience with a network 00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:44.329 which continues to grow and a market which will 00:28:44.329 --> 00:28:49.029 consolidate. At the beginning, which is a very 00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:50.750 exciting place to be, so we're certainly going 00:28:50.750 --> 00:28:55.809 to keep our eyes on you. I love that. It's so 00:28:55.809 --> 00:28:58.240 important to take people with you. because that's 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:01.059 what we're hoping to achieve here too. So thank 00:29:01.059 --> 00:29:04.779 you to Asif Gafoor today for providing such insight. 00:29:05.140 --> 00:29:07.059 There can be no doubt that climate change is 00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.480 the biggest challenge of our time. Today we must 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:12.039 reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:14.799 warming. Today we must act for tomorrow, adjusting 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:16.740 our lifestyles to current and future impacts 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:19.279 of climate change. Today we must use our collective 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.720 wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments. 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:24.400 Today we work for tomorrow's world. Don't forget 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.579 to subscribe to our podcast channels and tell 00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:29.420 us what you think by emailing us at podcast at 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:33.299 salixfinance .uk. Thank you once again, Asif, 00:29:33.339 --> 00:29:36.039 for joining me today. Thank you. Thank you very 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:39.160 much. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.200 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.480 about our work and to find more content, please 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:51.259 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.