You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue,
a podcast from Salix. I am Hannah Walker and
I believe that the best way to communicate a
message is by being passionate about what you
are talking about. Welcome to Isaac Beaver from
Climate Emergency UK. Founded in 2019, the organisation
aims to work with residents and councils at local
level for council climate action, as well as
at national level. Isaac started working and
campaigning in local climate policy in Metro
Vancouver managing volunteers and working on
campaigns to support Vancouver's low emission
buildings policy and introducing an annual measuring
and reporting system across Metro Vancouver.
I also hear Isaac that you're pretty good at
coach at table tennis, which is probably not
bad experience when you come around to negotiating.
So thank you very much to Isaac for joining me
today. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me,
Hannah. I really appreciate the opportunity to
be on the podcast. And I think you'd have to
speak to some of the athletes that I help coach,
whether they think I'm any good or not. But yeah,
I used to play table tennis as a junior, which
sport was one of the... I guess foundational
and core elements of my life when I was younger.
So it provided me a lot of lessons actually and
I'm really happy to be still involved in it.
Super, thank you very much. Now a little off
from the sport and let's go straight into career.
Can you tell us a little bit about your career
and what kind of drives your interest in climate
and where does that interest in climate and policy
begin and how you combine those and how you also
combine those with your personal values? To go
all the way back, just to think about it, it's
more that I always loved nature as a kid. I remember
when some of the Planet Earth documentaries came
out and watching them and being basically like
an avid fan of it. And I was one member of the
family that used to drag the whole family on
bat walks and things like that when we went camping.
So that was a big part of my interest in kind
of in the natural world. But I think what changed
for me around climate was two things really.
One was the IPCC reports that came out and what
happened around the 2015 COP and everything around
Paris as well. I was a student at the time and
I just remember lying in bed probably late morning
to be honest and reading the news reports that
had come out saying you know that by 2030 we
really had to act. and I actually went through
and read some of the IPCC report that came out
and it was kind of terrifying to be able to read
it and actually understand that we were putting
at risk the foundations of our society because
of the actions of, you know, burning emissions
and using fossil fuels. and I just remember it
was like one of those moments and at that time
nothing changed. It was very much kind of an
understanding in my head and everything that
that's something that's worrying and something
that will probably affect my future and the future
of other people but nothing really changed about
my life. And then the second thing that happened
was the Extinction Rebellion protests and I remember
being in London at the time and I was about to
move to Canada and I remember seeing this wave
of action of people like demonstratively on the
streets, calling for more climate action. And
it's the first time I'd really, really seen that
and actually paid attention. And I remember thinking
that it was just something that I needed to get
involved in. It was something that I needed to
do and to take part in, no matter what that looked
like. And so when I actually moved to Vancouver,
I got involved in volunteering in local climate
groups in Vancouver. That was something that
was really important to me, and just getting
involved in kind of grassroots activism of just,
you know, putting up posters for the climate
strikes, like supporting youth strikers, turn
up to some protests and direct action events
as well, and just find that that was a really
crucial and formative part of learning about
it, and also the fact that Vancouver sits on
the unceded indigenous lands of the relative
of the Squamish. and the Musqueam, and learning
about actually Indigenous culture and how that
was so different. And that was a real learning
experience for me as well, and kind of to understand
that different view of the world and different
view of the planet. In terms of my career, that's
when I really became interested in working in
climate. And I can be quite involved, kind of
touching back on sport. You know, sport was a
large part of my life, basically one of the biggest
parts of my life as a teenager. And, you know,
I think that once I really interested and keen
on something, then I will dedicate a large portion
of it will become the thing that I really care
about. And I just remember thinking that climate
and nature was what I wanted to and what I needed
to care about to make a difference in this world.
coupled with those two events that kind of happened
I was like actually I need to start looking for
this. So I worked firstly as a sabbatical officer
at York Sport President at the University of
York and then that was my first ever job like
a full -time gig. which was a really interesting
job as well to learn about and to do. But I then
worked in marketing for a while, working in SEO
and different forms of marketing as well. What
I managed to transition into was a comms role
for a small climate organization in Metro Vancouver,
which then transitioned more into direct campaign
and organizing roles in that organization. It
was that inspiration actually for Metro Vancouver,
which was really key because in that what I understood
and what other people, lots of other people have
said this, but what I actually understood was
if you change the environment and what we live
in, you change people's behavior. People's behavior
is defined by their environment and their constant
reaction to their environment, you know, why
people drive, why people walk or cycle, it's
often as a response to the environment you're
in. So if you change that environment, you can
actually change how people behave and relate
to each other, the community building, but also
how if they can live a learned mission lifestyle.
So It was kind of a combination of factors really,
but that gave me the opportunity, the comms experience
gave me the opportunity to switch into that role
in a climate organization. Okay, so now Climate
Emergency UK and I hope I got that description
right about working with councils and residents
at Local Action as well as national. How can
you, Climate Emergency UK, how can you, do you
think you can empower people to make a difference
and how can you bring all of these people in
the community? in on this? Basically our theory
of change is that you need good data to be able
to inform and progress local climate action,
but you also need public accountability. You
can't have one, good data is not going to change
anything and public accountability will change
things but can be strengthened through having
better data. And so what Climate MX UK is here
to do is provide that data and guidance and insights
to both councils and local campaigners and residents
so that councils can be encouraged and to drive
for progress at the local level for climate action.
How we're different is that we don't directly
advocate and campaign at council levels. What
we're here to do is support those already campaigning
at the local level with further data and insights.
And why it's so important in our main project
is the council climate action scorecards. And
what the scorecards do is they provide a comparison,
the only comparison across all UK councils, on
the climate action that each council is taking.
and one of the key aspects of it is that we don't
just publish who is the top rated councils we
publish everyone no matter if they're really
great or they're not doing so great and that's
a really important aspect of the scorecards and
important in terms of that public accountability.
To put it in context it was actually a council
officer and so staff member who turns me and
said actually Isaac the two biggest motivations
in for councils that were the two emotions that
have the most impact are both shame and envy
so the fact that you can compare them to each
other and the fact that they want to be seen
to be the best and that's what the scorecards
tapped into to an extent you know there's that
comparison where people can go hey we we haven't
got as strong a procurement policies on climate
but this council nearby does and that's one of
the most effective campaigning tools that you
have, whether you're a local resident, whether
you're a backbench councillor, whether you're
the climate lead at the council, that's one of
the most effective tools is to be able to compare
to someone else. So it's those scorecards that
can be used, as you say, not exactly naming and
shaming, but it can be used in a positive way
to actually you want to be there, but you want
to be looking good. And how hard is that to hold
councils to account? That's the challenge, isn't
it? Yeah, absolutely, and it is really difficult.
I think one of the things that we struggle with
is that sometimes councils don't publish information
in the best way, and just keeping on top of what
happens at your council can be quite difficult.
The other thing is that not only do you need
to really... care about what your council is
doing to be able to compare to other councils
is basically a full -time job which is why we
exist and that's why it's so effective the scorecards
because it's the only comparison and so people
local campaigners councillors officers use it
as a way to go oh this council is doing better
here what have they actually done what what can
we take what what's the best practice what's
the learning and what's the policies that we
can copy and paste that basically to create local
and to further local climate action in our area.
And so it is a really difficult job, partly because,
as I said, that lack of information from councils
can be problematic. But also, you know, you just
face the same struggles as if you were doing
it at the national government. It's the same
issues, like councils sometimes don't want to
publish the negative information if they think
that residents aren't going to like it and so
they hide it away. Or, you know, or they go forward
with schemes that other people would assume is
kind of more greenwash or things and what they're
promoting. councils are better at this than the
national government, but that engagement between
communities and councils is often missing between
sometimes councils getting in the way of local
communities wanting to do something positive,
but also sometimes councils not being able to
support communities to go further and faster
in the sense of climate action as well. Aside
from the scorecards, you also, and I was intrigued
by this project, you have something called the
Local Climate Academy, I think, and this is all
to tackle the ecological, the climate crisis,
et cetera. And I think this is about bringing
volunteers together, bringing volunteering opportunities
together. Could you tell me a little bit about
that? And is it really free to join? And how
does that work? Yes. So the local climate academy
is our flagship training, basically, where We
run a course for campaigners and councillors
and we run a course for council officers and
they are both free to attend and free to partake
in. And basically what the Local Climate Academy
does, it does a little bit of background in what
councils do, what the powers that councils have
to affect and to reduce emissions across the
area. And then it goes into what is the best
practice from councils across the UK in the different
areas. So the scorecards have seven sections.
ranging from governance and finance to biodiversity
and collaboration engagement to planning and
what we do in the local climate academy is pull
out some of the best practice examples of councils
taking action in each of those different areas
and we basically train people on that so both
local campaigners and residents who are interested
in pushing their councils to adopt bear practice
councillors who are interested in pushing their
own councils to go further and faster and officers
who obviously work in from within the council
to adopt those policies. We kind of run courses
and training based on what the scorecards show
and the insights that they provide. And you mentioned
local residents. Is that free to local residents
or is it just free to people and working in the
public sector? No, it's free for everyone, everyone
that attends. Okay, I'm going to tell my colleagues
about this because I was researching this, I
thought I can't be free. It just sounds like
a super opportunity to learn more and to network
and to really get to grips with a lot of these
really basic issues in pushing us all forward
on this agenda. Moving on, how do you think we
keep the pressure on government and local councils?
I definitely think that there's been a shift
in the last year and a half, I would say, away
from climate being one of the main attention
or one of the kind of top three attention of
government and councils. But I think the key
thing is to remind government and councils that
people really want to see climate action. Climate
Outreach released their Britain Talks analysis
recently, and it still showed that climate action
was one of the main priorities for people across
the UK. It still showed really, really high support
for renewable energy and the projects. And it
still showed really high support for policies
that tackle the climate crisis. think that that's
really key is to show that actually it is still
popular amongst the broadest wave of the population
and actually the noise that is generated online
or from certain aspects of the political arena
is noise and it's not the opinion of the people
across the country. I think the other thing is
that, and this has always been an emphasis around
climate action, is kind of that emphasis on the
co -benefits. If you look at the impacts of the
climate crisis that are happening now, yes there
is the most fire that we've ever faced in the
UK, yeah there is more dangerous and more frequent
flooding, but also the climate crisis have an
impact on inflation because it's driving up food
prices. If the cost of living crisis is being
caused by energy prices which can be dealt with
by clean energy and it's also being caused by
the increase in food prices which is being directly
caused and influenced by the climate crisis and
events that happen around the world. that is
a key foundation of everything that we need to
tackle if we're going to kind of solve or reduce
the cost of living then tackling the climate
crisis is one of the best ways we can do that
not only from cheap and reliable renewable energy
obviously based in the UK but also by making
sure that we're not making the climate crisis
worse and therefore driving up and causing food
production and everything to become more unstable.
So I think it's emphasising that the impacts
are happening now to people across the UK and
how it's affecting people. from a health perspective
and from a cost of living perspective and in
terms of energy bills and also reminding people
that climate action is still popular, it is still
one of the main things that people want to see
their council and the national government do
as well and I think that's just the really important
messages to carry forward. Do you think, that's
the key word, the important messages, do you
think we're very good at it? I mean there's certainly
room for improvement in telling those stories
isn't there? I think one of the key things the
climate movement isn't very good at is showing
local people and the stories of local people.
For example, I've just got some solar panels
on my house and now my house and now my energy
bills are really low and this is impacting my
life for the better. I think that's a key part
and I think the messaging and the people that
are carrying forward the message could definitely
be improved. There is an emphasis on this and
the messaging and whether we need to change like
the words of net zero or climate but to me I
don't think that that's actually the most important
thing. I think it's going to be messy. There's
no message grids for the climate movement. There's
no message grid for the climate movement across
the UK, let alone a movement that's across the
whole world. I think what we need to do is focus
on... as I said, some of the co -benefits and
making sure that people understand that climate
action, you know, will improve their health,
will reduce costs, and actually making sure the
government introduces policies that do do that
as well, so that it's backed up. But then also
making sure that the focus is on local people
and kind of, in quotation marks, normal people
who are not climate activists or policy wonks
or people who have invested their whole lives
in this, but someone who just went, yeah, I've
got solar panels in my house because it's now
saved me 500 to 1 ,000 pounds a year on energy
bills and I think that is the best one of the
best ways we can take that messaging forward
as well as pointing to the projects in people's
areas and going look at this look at what's happened
in your local areas that's you know improve things
look at what's improved this green space or made
things more energy secure I think that pointing
to and showing the actual benefits is something
that we can do. And so in your view it's the
simpler smaller stories as you say it's I've
just installed a heat pump and now my bills are
less the solar panels make this much difference
to my energy bills, which means I can now spend
a little bit more money on this, so I can have
some more money in my pocket and save for the
future. So it's those really simple stories,
isn't it? We face a challenge in our work, actually,
because we do work on housing projects, so we
do see very clearly how renewable solar heat
pumps can affect people's... energy bills and
comfort, basic comfort, enjoying your own home.
You know, the homes aren't as drafty or they're
warmer or you don't have to have the heat on
as longer. But also we work with a lot of large
projects in the decarbonisation sphere from huge
libraries to museums to council buildings, et
cetera. And we do see hospitals, for example,
how creating better environments through new
technology and through renewable technology is
not only better for the planet. But actually,
it makes the environment, it makes the leisure
center nicer to use. It makes the swimming pool
temperature more even. It means that infection
rates at hospitals are less likely to be as apparent
if the temperatures are better controlled. So
all of that. So you're absolutely right. It's
an interesting message because it's very easy
for us to get carried away with a lot of data
and a lot of statistics and a lot of targets.
Whereas those are all important, but as often.
when you're on your dog walk or you're out with
friends is you're talking about your energy bills
and what you can do to make your house more energy
efficient and future -proofed. For sure. And,
you know, the climate crisis is a global crisis.
It's going to affect every part of the world
because you're a change in basically how the
planet works fundamentally. But someone in the
UK, if you say that to them, they're going to
go, you know, firstly, the question is, what
can I do? But also, like, what impact am I going
to have? And so if we can tie local stories into
the fact that... This is something that helps
to tackle the changes that have been made here.
Your solar panels, your heat pump, your changing
diet, the way we travel, everything that we're
doing is actually something that's going to have
an effect when you add it all up. It's going
to have a global effect. I think that's something
that is quite exciting and makes people feel
part of something. It is exciting, that bigger
picture. And of course, there's always the danger,
though, if people look at those huge global issues
and we look at melting icebergs and rising sea
levels, there's always the danger that people
think, I can't tackle that. How can I possibly?
My recycling is not going to do the job. It's
somebody else's problem. Let government sort
it out. And of course, we can all play a part.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We can. And one
of the best ways you can play a part is by Becoming
active, you know, becoming, going to your council
and saying, you know, I want to see more climate
action. I want you to take this action. I want
you to put forward these policies. I want you
to run the solar panel schemes. I want those
heat pumps in the leisure centres. I want the
low -traffic neighbourhoods or the school streets
across my area in for your council. But then
also at the national government level, you know,
making sure that MPs understand that renewable
energy projects are supported, that they want
further legislation that's not just Great British
Energy, but, you know, that they want the Warm
Homes Plan to be really life changing and to
be fully funded. They want things to come forward
that will actually make an improvement in their
lives, as you said, and in terms of their health
and their outcomes, but also in terms of the
jobs in the local area and in terms of creating
jobs across the country. People will say, oh,
what can I do about it? But there's the lifestyle
changes you can make, but also there's the fact
that you can go out and advocate and you can
go out and have a say in democracy. The best
thing I learned from a person in Vancouver, the
thing that always stuck with me is he said that
democracy is not a spectator sport. and I was
like, you know, we have to sit on the sidelines
cheering on the kind of politicians. We're actively
involved through campaigning, through, you know,
calling lobbying politicians, lobbying MPs, lobbying
councillors, and also, you know, advocating for
change that we want to see. One council leader
or former council leader said that from one of
the best things he said You know, the councillors
get a lot of emails saying about things that
have gone wrong in the local area, which is fair
enough, because I'm sure there are things that
are going wrong. But in terms of making the case
for positive change, it only took one email for
a council leader to look at that and go, OK,
I'm interested now. One email is all they would
take to become interested in the council in that
idea. And that's, you know, that is such a powerful
thing that lots of people can do. or any time
of the day. I think that's a great message because
a democracy is hard work isn't it and maintaining
that and we have to keep it alive and through
that active engagement and as you say advocacy
I actually believe that power comes from grassroots
actually that is where the power lies and it
moves upwards so it's all of us actually it's
not just the solar panels, but it's actually
having a voice and keeping that voice going and
using it in the right place at the right time.
As you say, we've got a whole network of local
councils and that one email is a very good example.
So what climate policies do you think the UK,
this is a big question and we've got limited
time, but in a nutshell, what climate policies
do you think the UK most urgently needs in the
next five years? There's so much. The thing that
we're focusing on at Climate Mercer UK is that
there should be a statutory duty, so a legal
duty for councils to act on climate and a strengthened
duty for nature as well. So we're working with
Wildlife and Countryside Link for there to be,
as I said, a legal duty for councils to act on
climate and to contribute to the Climate Change
Act, but also to contribute to the Environment
Act and to take forward policies that also make
sure that climate adaptation is baked in as well.
And I think that's one of the things that we're
pushing for, because we see that as being able
to support councils and unlocking local climate
action and driving it forward. In terms of the
other things that I think really needs to happen,
I think that one of the campaigns and UK Divest,
or Divest UK, sorry, really work on this is around
the pension fund divestment. There is so much
money still that's from people's pension funds,
which are basically supporting fossil fuel projects
in the UK, but also across the world. moving
that money away, that financing away from fossil
fuels is probably one of the biggest changes
that we can make in terms of driving that money
towards renewable energy and the clean energy
transition. I think that's one of the things
that I would highlight as something that needs
to change. Thank you. I know we could talk about
this all day because there's a whole multitude
of factors involved in all of this. Now, you
obviously have a job that fits and suits your
values because you've talked about your background.
But do you think, and you've mentioned, I think,
solar panels, but overall, do you think you're
able to lead a sustainable lifestyle yourself
personally? So I rent, so I don't have control
of the building that I live in, unfortunately,
in terms of making some of those changes. But
yeah, I think so. I'm vegetarian, basically vegan
at home. I basically don't fly. I've taken one
return flight in the past five or six years.
I don't own a car. I haven't done for five or
six years as well, which helps because I live
in London and the transport system here is obviously
so good. But, you know, there are aspects that
have changed. It's not just something that I
want to do in my job, but also obviously take
the action within my own life as well. But even
those those things that you can take in your
life, I think the most important thing that I've
done and and try to continue to do is to actually
spend some time supporting turning up to protests,
turn up supporting the advocacy at the local
level and also at the national level in terms
of other campaigns that are. that are going through
at the moment that are trying to drive for climate
action across the UK, you know, supporting groups
like Uplift who are pushing back against Rosebank
or the Transport Action Network who are fighting
the expansion of new roads but also promoting
active travel, you know, going to my local council
and saying that actually climate action needs
to be improved here, I think that's the most
important switch that I made in my life is a
constant decision to be. active and involved
in advocating for climate action, both the local
and national level. Super. Thank you very much
to Isaac Beaver from Climate Emergency UK and
that's all about being very active and that advocacy
role which we can all play a part of. So thank
you very much to Isaac for providing such insight.
There can be no doubt that climate change is
the biggest challenge of our time. Today we must
reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global
warming. Today we must act for tomorrow adjusting
our lifestyles to current and future impacts
of climate change. Today, we must use our collective
wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments.
Today, we work for tomorrow's world. Don't forget
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email us at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk with
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on regarding our podcasts. Thank you very much
to Isaac. Thank you for having me. Appreciate
it. Thank you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information
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