WEBVTT 00:00:06.990 --> 00:00:10.529 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.470 a podcast from Salix. I am Hannah Walker and 00:00:14.470 --> 00:00:16.390 I believe that the best way to communicate a 00:00:16.390 --> 00:00:18.649 message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:18.649 --> 00:00:22.089 are talking about. Welcome to Isaac Beaver from 00:00:22.089 --> 00:00:27.350 Climate Emergency UK. Founded in 2019, the organisation 00:00:27.350 --> 00:00:30.670 aims to work with residents and councils at local 00:00:30.670 --> 00:00:33.890 level for council climate action, as well as 00:00:33.890 --> 00:00:37.100 at national level. Isaac started working and 00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:39.780 campaigning in local climate policy in Metro 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:42.579 Vancouver managing volunteers and working on 00:00:42.579 --> 00:00:45.579 campaigns to support Vancouver's low emission 00:00:45.579 --> 00:00:48.280 buildings policy and introducing an annual measuring 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:50.939 and reporting system across Metro Vancouver. 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:55.119 I also hear Isaac that you're pretty good at 00:00:55.609 --> 00:00:58.590 coach at table tennis, which is probably not 00:00:58.590 --> 00:01:01.390 bad experience when you come around to negotiating. 00:01:01.990 --> 00:01:04.750 So thank you very much to Isaac for joining me 00:01:04.750 --> 00:01:07.150 today. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me, 00:01:07.250 --> 00:01:09.030 Hannah. I really appreciate the opportunity to 00:01:09.030 --> 00:01:11.010 be on the podcast. And I think you'd have to 00:01:11.010 --> 00:01:14.909 speak to some of the athletes that I help coach, 00:01:15.069 --> 00:01:17.010 whether they think I'm any good or not. But yeah, 00:01:17.090 --> 00:01:19.790 I used to play table tennis as a junior, which 00:01:19.790 --> 00:01:22.620 sport was one of the... I guess foundational 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:24.959 and core elements of my life when I was younger. 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.299 So it provided me a lot of lessons actually and 00:01:27.299 --> 00:01:29.579 I'm really happy to be still involved in it. 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:32.939 Super, thank you very much. Now a little off 00:01:32.939 --> 00:01:36.099 from the sport and let's go straight into career. 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:38.879 Can you tell us a little bit about your career 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.120 and what kind of drives your interest in climate 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:45.500 and where does that interest in climate and policy 00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:48.719 begin and how you combine those and how you also 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.620 combine those with your personal values? To go 00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:54.400 all the way back, just to think about it, it's 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.280 more that I always loved nature as a kid. I remember 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:00.920 when some of the Planet Earth documentaries came 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:03.340 out and watching them and being basically like 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:06.739 an avid fan of it. And I was one member of the 00:02:06.739 --> 00:02:09.120 family that used to drag the whole family on 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.099 bat walks and things like that when we went camping. 00:02:11.740 --> 00:02:15.180 So that was a big part of my interest in kind 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:18.199 of in the natural world. But I think what changed 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.360 for me around climate was two things really. 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:25.159 One was the IPCC reports that came out and what 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.439 happened around the 2015 COP and everything around 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:31.780 Paris as well. I was a student at the time and 00:02:31.780 --> 00:02:34.659 I just remember lying in bed probably late morning 00:02:34.659 --> 00:02:37.219 to be honest and reading the news reports that 00:02:37.219 --> 00:02:39.819 had come out saying you know that by 2030 we 00:02:39.819 --> 00:02:42.550 really had to act. and I actually went through 00:02:42.550 --> 00:02:46.270 and read some of the IPCC report that came out 00:02:46.270 --> 00:02:48.870 and it was kind of terrifying to be able to read 00:02:48.870 --> 00:02:52.349 it and actually understand that we were putting 00:02:52.349 --> 00:02:55.729 at risk the foundations of our society because 00:02:55.729 --> 00:02:58.590 of the actions of, you know, burning emissions 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:01.740 and using fossil fuels. and I just remember it 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:04.539 was like one of those moments and at that time 00:03:04.539 --> 00:03:07.139 nothing changed. It was very much kind of an 00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:09.280 understanding in my head and everything that 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:12.080 that's something that's worrying and something 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:14.780 that will probably affect my future and the future 00:03:14.780 --> 00:03:17.020 of other people but nothing really changed about 00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:20.020 my life. And then the second thing that happened 00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:23.979 was the Extinction Rebellion protests and I remember 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:25.780 being in London at the time and I was about to 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.099 move to Canada and I remember seeing this wave 00:03:28.099 --> 00:03:31.590 of action of people like demonstratively on the 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:34.210 streets, calling for more climate action. And 00:03:34.210 --> 00:03:36.590 it's the first time I'd really, really seen that 00:03:36.590 --> 00:03:39.449 and actually paid attention. And I remember thinking 00:03:39.449 --> 00:03:41.669 that it was just something that I needed to get 00:03:41.669 --> 00:03:43.629 involved in. It was something that I needed to 00:03:43.629 --> 00:03:46.909 do and to take part in, no matter what that looked 00:03:46.909 --> 00:03:49.810 like. And so when I actually moved to Vancouver, 00:03:49.969 --> 00:03:53.830 I got involved in volunteering in local climate 00:03:53.830 --> 00:03:56.449 groups in Vancouver. That was something that 00:03:56.449 --> 00:03:58.030 was really important to me, and just getting 00:03:58.030 --> 00:03:59.969 involved in kind of grassroots activism of just, 00:03:59.969 --> 00:04:01.889 you know, putting up posters for the climate 00:04:01.889 --> 00:04:03.889 strikes, like supporting youth strikers, turn 00:04:03.889 --> 00:04:07.129 up to some protests and direct action events 00:04:07.129 --> 00:04:10.289 as well, and just find that that was a really 00:04:10.289 --> 00:04:12.550 crucial and formative part of learning about 00:04:12.550 --> 00:04:16.269 it, and also the fact that Vancouver sits on 00:04:16.269 --> 00:04:19.449 the unceded indigenous lands of the relative 00:04:19.449 --> 00:04:21.819 of the Squamish. and the Musqueam, and learning 00:04:21.819 --> 00:04:23.839 about actually Indigenous culture and how that 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.439 was so different. And that was a real learning 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:29.920 experience for me as well, and kind of to understand 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.079 that different view of the world and different 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.519 view of the planet. In terms of my career, that's 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:37.040 when I really became interested in working in 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:41.000 climate. And I can be quite involved, kind of 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.240 touching back on sport. You know, sport was a 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:45.220 large part of my life, basically one of the biggest 00:04:45.220 --> 00:04:47.920 parts of my life as a teenager. And, you know, 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:51.000 I think that once I really interested and keen 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:55.360 on something, then I will dedicate a large portion 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:57.139 of it will become the thing that I really care 00:04:57.139 --> 00:05:00.100 about. And I just remember thinking that climate 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:02.939 and nature was what I wanted to and what I needed 00:05:02.939 --> 00:05:05.139 to care about to make a difference in this world. 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.120 coupled with those two events that kind of happened 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:09.939 I was like actually I need to start looking for 00:05:09.939 --> 00:05:12.759 this. So I worked firstly as a sabbatical officer 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.879 at York Sport President at the University of 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:19.480 York and then that was my first ever job like 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:21.660 a full -time gig. which was a really interesting 00:05:21.660 --> 00:05:24.879 job as well to learn about and to do. But I then 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.579 worked in marketing for a while, working in SEO 00:05:27.579 --> 00:05:30.120 and different forms of marketing as well. What 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:32.199 I managed to transition into was a comms role 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:35.220 for a small climate organization in Metro Vancouver, 00:05:35.740 --> 00:05:37.839 which then transitioned more into direct campaign 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:40.560 and organizing roles in that organization. It 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:42.800 was that inspiration actually for Metro Vancouver, 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.040 which was really key because in that what I understood 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:47.740 and what other people, lots of other people have 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:49.620 said this, but what I actually understood was 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:52.139 if you change the environment and what we live 00:05:52.139 --> 00:05:55.160 in, you change people's behavior. People's behavior 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:57.720 is defined by their environment and their constant 00:05:57.720 --> 00:05:59.319 reaction to their environment, you know, why 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.199 people drive, why people walk or cycle, it's 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:04.040 often as a response to the environment you're 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:05.839 in. So if you change that environment, you can 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:08.259 actually change how people behave and relate 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:10.779 to each other, the community building, but also 00:06:10.779 --> 00:06:13.259 how if they can live a learned mission lifestyle. 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:16.199 So It was kind of a combination of factors really, 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:18.459 but that gave me the opportunity, the comms experience 00:06:18.459 --> 00:06:21.259 gave me the opportunity to switch into that role 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:24.560 in a climate organization. Okay, so now Climate 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.240 Emergency UK and I hope I got that description 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.040 right about working with councils and residents 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.959 at Local Action as well as national. How can 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:37.180 you, Climate Emergency UK, how can you, do you 00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:39.920 think you can empower people to make a difference 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:41.899 and how can you bring all of these people in 00:06:41.899 --> 00:06:45.100 the community? in on this? Basically our theory 00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:48.819 of change is that you need good data to be able 00:06:48.819 --> 00:06:52.660 to inform and progress local climate action, 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.060 but you also need public accountability. You 00:06:55.060 --> 00:06:57.420 can't have one, good data is not going to change 00:06:57.420 --> 00:07:00.259 anything and public accountability will change 00:07:00.259 --> 00:07:02.339 things but can be strengthened through having 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:05.240 better data. And so what Climate MX UK is here 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:07.879 to do is provide that data and guidance and insights 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:11.240 to both councils and local campaigners and residents 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.620 so that councils can be encouraged and to drive 00:07:14.620 --> 00:07:17.339 for progress at the local level for climate action. 00:07:17.790 --> 00:07:20.389 How we're different is that we don't directly 00:07:20.389 --> 00:07:22.769 advocate and campaign at council levels. What 00:07:22.769 --> 00:07:25.649 we're here to do is support those already campaigning 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:28.410 at the local level with further data and insights. 00:07:29.129 --> 00:07:31.149 And why it's so important in our main project 00:07:31.149 --> 00:07:34.209 is the council climate action scorecards. And 00:07:34.209 --> 00:07:37.529 what the scorecards do is they provide a comparison, 00:07:37.709 --> 00:07:40.709 the only comparison across all UK councils, on 00:07:40.709 --> 00:07:42.810 the climate action that each council is taking. 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.259 and one of the key aspects of it is that we don't 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:48.639 just publish who is the top rated councils we 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:50.639 publish everyone no matter if they're really 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:52.899 great or they're not doing so great and that's 00:07:52.899 --> 00:07:55.600 a really important aspect of the scorecards and 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:57.839 important in terms of that public accountability. 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.040 To put it in context it was actually a council 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.939 officer and so staff member who turns me and 00:08:03.939 --> 00:08:06.379 said actually Isaac the two biggest motivations 00:08:06.379 --> 00:08:09.600 in for councils that were the two emotions that 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.480 have the most impact are both shame and envy 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.560 so the fact that you can compare them to each 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:17.959 other and the fact that they want to be seen 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:20.740 to be the best and that's what the scorecards 00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:23.180 tapped into to an extent you know there's that 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:25.720 comparison where people can go hey we we haven't 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:27.800 got as strong a procurement policies on climate 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:30.939 but this council nearby does and that's one of 00:08:30.939 --> 00:08:33.100 the most effective campaigning tools that you 00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:35.659 have, whether you're a local resident, whether 00:08:35.659 --> 00:08:37.399 you're a backbench councillor, whether you're 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.159 the climate lead at the council, that's one of 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:41.879 the most effective tools is to be able to compare 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.059 to someone else. So it's those scorecards that 00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:46.759 can be used, as you say, not exactly naming and 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:48.379 shaming, but it can be used in a positive way 00:08:48.379 --> 00:08:49.860 to actually you want to be there, but you want 00:08:49.860 --> 00:08:53.019 to be looking good. And how hard is that to hold 00:08:53.019 --> 00:08:56.740 councils to account? That's the challenge, isn't 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:00.529 it? Yeah, absolutely, and it is really difficult. 00:09:00.710 --> 00:09:02.470 I think one of the things that we struggle with 00:09:02.470 --> 00:09:05.370 is that sometimes councils don't publish information 00:09:05.370 --> 00:09:08.649 in the best way, and just keeping on top of what 00:09:08.649 --> 00:09:10.809 happens at your council can be quite difficult. 00:09:11.529 --> 00:09:13.350 The other thing is that not only do you need 00:09:13.350 --> 00:09:15.639 to really... care about what your council is 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:17.620 doing to be able to compare to other councils 00:09:17.620 --> 00:09:19.679 is basically a full -time job which is why we 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.639 exist and that's why it's so effective the scorecards 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:24.980 because it's the only comparison and so people 00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:27.580 local campaigners councillors officers use it 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:29.159 as a way to go oh this council is doing better 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:30.879 here what have they actually done what what can 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.179 we take what what's the best practice what's 00:09:33.179 --> 00:09:35.139 the learning and what's the policies that we 00:09:35.139 --> 00:09:38.039 can copy and paste that basically to create local 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:40.139 and to further local climate action in our area. 00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:44.120 And so it is a really difficult job, partly because, 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.320 as I said, that lack of information from councils 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.080 can be problematic. But also, you know, you just 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:51.419 face the same struggles as if you were doing 00:09:51.419 --> 00:09:53.620 it at the national government. It's the same 00:09:53.620 --> 00:09:55.860 issues, like councils sometimes don't want to 00:09:55.860 --> 00:09:58.519 publish the negative information if they think 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:00.019 that residents aren't going to like it and so 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:03.460 they hide it away. Or, you know, or they go forward 00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:05.299 with schemes that other people would assume is 00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:07.460 kind of more greenwash or things and what they're 00:10:07.460 --> 00:10:09.700 promoting. councils are better at this than the 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:11.360 national government, but that engagement between 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.399 communities and councils is often missing between 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.700 sometimes councils getting in the way of local 00:10:16.700 --> 00:10:18.320 communities wanting to do something positive, 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.500 but also sometimes councils not being able to 00:10:20.500 --> 00:10:22.519 support communities to go further and faster 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:24.799 in the sense of climate action as well. Aside 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.559 from the scorecards, you also, and I was intrigued 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.159 by this project, you have something called the 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:34.960 Local Climate Academy, I think, and this is all 00:10:35.289 --> 00:10:37.929 to tackle the ecological, the climate crisis, 00:10:38.110 --> 00:10:40.830 et cetera. And I think this is about bringing 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:43.590 volunteers together, bringing volunteering opportunities 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:46.429 together. Could you tell me a little bit about 00:10:46.429 --> 00:10:49.409 that? And is it really free to join? And how 00:10:49.409 --> 00:10:52.409 does that work? Yes. So the local climate academy 00:10:52.409 --> 00:10:56.110 is our flagship training, basically, where We 00:10:56.110 --> 00:10:59.149 run a course for campaigners and councillors 00:10:59.149 --> 00:11:02.049 and we run a course for council officers and 00:11:02.049 --> 00:11:05.210 they are both free to attend and free to partake 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:07.490 in. And basically what the Local Climate Academy 00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:10.370 does, it does a little bit of background in what 00:11:10.370 --> 00:11:12.690 councils do, what the powers that councils have 00:11:12.690 --> 00:11:16.309 to affect and to reduce emissions across the 00:11:16.309 --> 00:11:19.190 area. And then it goes into what is the best 00:11:19.190 --> 00:11:21.330 practice from councils across the UK in the different 00:11:21.330 --> 00:11:24.149 areas. So the scorecards have seven sections. 00:11:24.509 --> 00:11:27.870 ranging from governance and finance to biodiversity 00:11:27.870 --> 00:11:31.210 and collaboration engagement to planning and 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:33.149 what we do in the local climate academy is pull 00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.590 out some of the best practice examples of councils 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:38.070 taking action in each of those different areas 00:11:38.070 --> 00:11:41.269 and we basically train people on that so both 00:11:41.269 --> 00:11:43.509 local campaigners and residents who are interested 00:11:43.509 --> 00:11:46.230 in pushing their councils to adopt bear practice 00:11:46.990 --> 00:11:48.610 councillors who are interested in pushing their 00:11:48.610 --> 00:11:50.769 own councils to go further and faster and officers 00:11:50.769 --> 00:11:52.649 who obviously work in from within the council 00:11:52.649 --> 00:11:55.409 to adopt those policies. We kind of run courses 00:11:55.409 --> 00:11:57.750 and training based on what the scorecards show 00:11:57.750 --> 00:12:00.070 and the insights that they provide. And you mentioned 00:12:00.070 --> 00:12:02.750 local residents. Is that free to local residents 00:12:02.750 --> 00:12:04.850 or is it just free to people and working in the 00:12:04.850 --> 00:12:07.460 public sector? No, it's free for everyone, everyone 00:12:07.460 --> 00:12:09.500 that attends. Okay, I'm going to tell my colleagues 00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:11.700 about this because I was researching this, I 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:13.940 thought I can't be free. It just sounds like 00:12:13.940 --> 00:12:16.639 a super opportunity to learn more and to network 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:18.940 and to really get to grips with a lot of these 00:12:18.940 --> 00:12:20.960 really basic issues in pushing us all forward 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:24.980 on this agenda. Moving on, how do you think we 00:12:24.980 --> 00:12:28.440 keep the pressure on government and local councils? 00:12:28.909 --> 00:12:31.450 I definitely think that there's been a shift 00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:34.710 in the last year and a half, I would say, away 00:12:34.710 --> 00:12:38.210 from climate being one of the main attention 00:12:38.210 --> 00:12:40.470 or one of the kind of top three attention of 00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:43.470 government and councils. But I think the key 00:12:43.470 --> 00:12:45.909 thing is to remind government and councils that 00:12:45.909 --> 00:12:48.669 people really want to see climate action. Climate 00:12:48.669 --> 00:12:51.269 Outreach released their Britain Talks analysis 00:12:51.269 --> 00:12:55.230 recently, and it still showed that climate action 00:12:55.230 --> 00:12:57.169 was one of the main priorities for people across 00:12:57.169 --> 00:12:59.970 the UK. It still showed really, really high support 00:12:59.970 --> 00:13:04.149 for renewable energy and the projects. And it 00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:05.970 still showed really high support for policies 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:09.320 that tackle the climate crisis. think that that's 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.620 really key is to show that actually it is still 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:14.620 popular amongst the broadest wave of the population 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:17.500 and actually the noise that is generated online 00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:19.840 or from certain aspects of the political arena 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:23.279 is noise and it's not the opinion of the people 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:25.879 across the country. I think the other thing is 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:27.500 that, and this has always been an emphasis around 00:13:27.500 --> 00:13:30.059 climate action, is kind of that emphasis on the 00:13:30.059 --> 00:13:32.580 co -benefits. If you look at the impacts of the 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:34.759 climate crisis that are happening now, yes there 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.240 is the most fire that we've ever faced in the 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.840 UK, yeah there is more dangerous and more frequent 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.500 flooding, but also the climate crisis have an 00:13:42.500 --> 00:13:44.480 impact on inflation because it's driving up food 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:48.169 prices. If the cost of living crisis is being 00:13:48.169 --> 00:13:50.730 caused by energy prices which can be dealt with 00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:53.710 by clean energy and it's also being caused by 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:56.490 the increase in food prices which is being directly 00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:59.309 caused and influenced by the climate crisis and 00:13:59.309 --> 00:14:02.850 events that happen around the world. that is 00:14:02.850 --> 00:14:04.690 a key foundation of everything that we need to 00:14:04.690 --> 00:14:07.610 tackle if we're going to kind of solve or reduce 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:10.269 the cost of living then tackling the climate 00:14:10.269 --> 00:14:12.029 crisis is one of the best ways we can do that 00:14:12.029 --> 00:14:15.289 not only from cheap and reliable renewable energy 00:14:15.289 --> 00:14:18.909 obviously based in the UK but also by making 00:14:18.909 --> 00:14:21.370 sure that we're not making the climate crisis 00:14:21.370 --> 00:14:24.809 worse and therefore driving up and causing food 00:14:24.809 --> 00:14:26.590 production and everything to become more unstable. 00:14:26.830 --> 00:14:29.289 So I think it's emphasising that the impacts 00:14:29.289 --> 00:14:32.809 are happening now to people across the UK and 00:14:32.809 --> 00:14:36.789 how it's affecting people. from a health perspective 00:14:36.789 --> 00:14:39.029 and from a cost of living perspective and in 00:14:39.029 --> 00:14:42.309 terms of energy bills and also reminding people 00:14:42.309 --> 00:14:45.830 that climate action is still popular, it is still 00:14:45.830 --> 00:14:48.309 one of the main things that people want to see 00:14:48.309 --> 00:14:50.269 their council and the national government do 00:14:50.269 --> 00:14:52.029 as well and I think that's just the really important 00:14:52.029 --> 00:14:54.190 messages to carry forward. Do you think, that's 00:14:54.190 --> 00:14:56.330 the key word, the important messages, do you 00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:59.230 think we're very good at it? I mean there's certainly 00:14:59.230 --> 00:15:01.350 room for improvement in telling those stories 00:15:01.350 --> 00:15:03.809 isn't there? I think one of the key things the 00:15:03.809 --> 00:15:06.809 climate movement isn't very good at is showing 00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:09.429 local people and the stories of local people. 00:15:09.509 --> 00:15:11.450 For example, I've just got some solar panels 00:15:11.450 --> 00:15:14.529 on my house and now my house and now my energy 00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:16.750 bills are really low and this is impacting my 00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:18.590 life for the better. I think that's a key part 00:15:18.590 --> 00:15:20.769 and I think the messaging and the people that 00:15:20.769 --> 00:15:22.009 are carrying forward the message could definitely 00:15:22.009 --> 00:15:24.029 be improved. There is an emphasis on this and 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:25.649 the messaging and whether we need to change like 00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:27.870 the words of net zero or climate but to me I 00:15:27.870 --> 00:15:29.710 don't think that that's actually the most important 00:15:29.710 --> 00:15:32.539 thing. I think it's going to be messy. There's 00:15:32.539 --> 00:15:35.299 no message grids for the climate movement. There's 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:37.340 no message grid for the climate movement across 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:39.679 the UK, let alone a movement that's across the 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:41.899 whole world. I think what we need to do is focus 00:15:41.899 --> 00:15:44.419 on... as I said, some of the co -benefits and 00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:45.940 making sure that people understand that climate 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:47.840 action, you know, will improve their health, 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.600 will reduce costs, and actually making sure the 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:52.740 government introduces policies that do do that 00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:55.159 as well, so that it's backed up. But then also 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.700 making sure that the focus is on local people 00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:01.259 and kind of, in quotation marks, normal people 00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:03.980 who are not climate activists or policy wonks 00:16:03.980 --> 00:16:06.000 or people who have invested their whole lives 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.240 in this, but someone who just went, yeah, I've 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:10.279 got solar panels in my house because it's now 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:12.980 saved me 500 to 1 ,000 pounds a year on energy 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.679 bills and I think that is the best one of the 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:17.299 best ways we can take that messaging forward 00:16:17.299 --> 00:16:19.600 as well as pointing to the projects in people's 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.820 areas and going look at this look at what's happened 00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:24.039 in your local areas that's you know improve things 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.039 look at what's improved this green space or made 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.480 things more energy secure I think that pointing 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:31.279 to and showing the actual benefits is something 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.379 that we can do. And so in your view it's the 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:36.340 simpler smaller stories as you say it's I've 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:38.360 just installed a heat pump and now my bills are 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:40.480 less the solar panels make this much difference 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.799 to my energy bills, which means I can now spend 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:44.559 a little bit more money on this, so I can have 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:48.320 some more money in my pocket and save for the 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.879 future. So it's those really simple stories, 00:16:50.899 --> 00:16:54.899 isn't it? We face a challenge in our work, actually, 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:58.299 because we do work on housing projects, so we 00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:01.899 do see very clearly how renewable solar heat 00:17:01.899 --> 00:17:05.670 pumps can affect people's... energy bills and 00:17:05.670 --> 00:17:08.490 comfort, basic comfort, enjoying your own home. 00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:10.750 You know, the homes aren't as drafty or they're 00:17:10.750 --> 00:17:12.630 warmer or you don't have to have the heat on 00:17:12.630 --> 00:17:14.450 as longer. But also we work with a lot of large 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:18.529 projects in the decarbonisation sphere from huge 00:17:18.529 --> 00:17:21.349 libraries to museums to council buildings, et 00:17:21.349 --> 00:17:25.009 cetera. And we do see hospitals, for example, 00:17:25.329 --> 00:17:28.809 how creating better environments through new 00:17:28.809 --> 00:17:31.210 technology and through renewable technology is 00:17:31.210 --> 00:17:33.650 not only better for the planet. But actually, 00:17:33.849 --> 00:17:36.289 it makes the environment, it makes the leisure 00:17:36.289 --> 00:17:38.869 center nicer to use. It makes the swimming pool 00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:41.750 temperature more even. It means that infection 00:17:41.750 --> 00:17:44.630 rates at hospitals are less likely to be as apparent 00:17:44.630 --> 00:17:46.710 if the temperatures are better controlled. So 00:17:46.710 --> 00:17:49.069 all of that. So you're absolutely right. It's 00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:51.549 an interesting message because it's very easy 00:17:51.549 --> 00:17:54.089 for us to get carried away with a lot of data 00:17:54.089 --> 00:17:56.650 and a lot of statistics and a lot of targets. 00:17:57.210 --> 00:18:00.009 Whereas those are all important, but as often. 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.119 when you're on your dog walk or you're out with 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.460 friends is you're talking about your energy bills 00:18:04.460 --> 00:18:08.299 and what you can do to make your house more energy 00:18:08.299 --> 00:18:10.920 efficient and future -proofed. For sure. And, 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.180 you know, the climate crisis is a global crisis. 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.299 It's going to affect every part of the world 00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:17.880 because you're a change in basically how the 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.440 planet works fundamentally. But someone in the 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.259 UK, if you say that to them, they're going to 00:18:23.259 --> 00:18:25.339 go, you know, firstly, the question is, what 00:18:25.339 --> 00:18:27.359 can I do? But also, like, what impact am I going 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.180 to have? And so if we can tie local stories into 00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:33.690 the fact that... This is something that helps 00:18:33.690 --> 00:18:36.190 to tackle the changes that have been made here. 00:18:36.349 --> 00:18:37.910 Your solar panels, your heat pump, your changing 00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:40.130 diet, the way we travel, everything that we're 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:42.369 doing is actually something that's going to have 00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:44.569 an effect when you add it all up. It's going 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:46.130 to have a global effect. I think that's something 00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:48.829 that is quite exciting and makes people feel 00:18:48.829 --> 00:18:50.930 part of something. It is exciting, that bigger 00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:53.150 picture. And of course, there's always the danger, 00:18:53.289 --> 00:18:56.470 though, if people look at those huge global issues 00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:59.349 and we look at melting icebergs and rising sea 00:18:59.349 --> 00:19:01.269 levels, there's always the danger that people 00:19:01.269 --> 00:19:03.799 think, I can't tackle that. How can I possibly? 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:06.720 My recycling is not going to do the job. It's 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.480 somebody else's problem. Let government sort 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.680 it out. And of course, we can all play a part. 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.599 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We can. And one 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:16.859 of the best ways you can play a part is by Becoming 00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:19.819 active, you know, becoming, going to your council 00:19:19.819 --> 00:19:21.259 and saying, you know, I want to see more climate 00:19:21.259 --> 00:19:24.099 action. I want you to take this action. I want 00:19:24.099 --> 00:19:26.220 you to put forward these policies. I want you 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:28.319 to run the solar panel schemes. I want those 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:30.779 heat pumps in the leisure centres. I want the 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:32.579 low -traffic neighbourhoods or the school streets 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:34.859 across my area in for your council. But then 00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:36.819 also at the national government level, you know, 00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:39.119 making sure that MPs understand that renewable 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:41.440 energy projects are supported, that they want 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:43.359 further legislation that's not just Great British 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.160 Energy, but, you know, that they want the Warm 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.720 Homes Plan to be really life changing and to 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.720 be fully funded. They want things to come forward 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.920 that will actually make an improvement in their 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.539 lives, as you said, and in terms of their health 00:19:56.539 --> 00:19:59.220 and their outcomes, but also in terms of the 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:01.460 jobs in the local area and in terms of creating 00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:05.799 jobs across the country. People will say, oh, 00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:08.359 what can I do about it? But there's the lifestyle 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.279 changes you can make, but also there's the fact 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.440 that you can go out and advocate and you can 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.900 go out and have a say in democracy. The best 00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:18.859 thing I learned from a person in Vancouver, the 00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:20.680 thing that always stuck with me is he said that 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.279 democracy is not a spectator sport. and I was 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:24.980 like, you know, we have to sit on the sidelines 00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:27.440 cheering on the kind of politicians. We're actively 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.200 involved through campaigning, through, you know, 00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:33.940 calling lobbying politicians, lobbying MPs, lobbying 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:37.420 councillors, and also, you know, advocating for 00:20:37.420 --> 00:20:39.960 change that we want to see. One council leader 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.299 or former council leader said that from one of 00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:45.599 the best things he said You know, the councillors 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.480 get a lot of emails saying about things that 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:49.240 have gone wrong in the local area, which is fair 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:50.740 enough, because I'm sure there are things that 00:20:50.740 --> 00:20:53.400 are going wrong. But in terms of making the case 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.339 for positive change, it only took one email for 00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:57.980 a council leader to look at that and go, OK, 00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:00.759 I'm interested now. One email is all they would 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.980 take to become interested in the council in that 00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:07.420 idea. And that's, you know, that is such a powerful 00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:10.349 thing that lots of people can do. or any time 00:21:10.349 --> 00:21:12.809 of the day. I think that's a great message because 00:21:12.809 --> 00:21:15.710 a democracy is hard work isn't it and maintaining 00:21:15.710 --> 00:21:18.609 that and we have to keep it alive and through 00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:22.950 that active engagement and as you say advocacy 00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:26.369 I actually believe that power comes from grassroots 00:21:26.369 --> 00:21:28.990 actually that is where the power lies and it 00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:32.150 moves upwards so it's all of us actually it's 00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:34.539 not just the solar panels, but it's actually 00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:37.920 having a voice and keeping that voice going and 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:39.980 using it in the right place at the right time. 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.079 As you say, we've got a whole network of local 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.680 councils and that one email is a very good example. 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.460 So what climate policies do you think the UK, 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:52.200 this is a big question and we've got limited 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.640 time, but in a nutshell, what climate policies 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:58.079 do you think the UK most urgently needs in the 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.220 next five years? There's so much. The thing that 00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:03.740 we're focusing on at Climate Mercer UK is that 00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:05.700 there should be a statutory duty, so a legal 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:08.640 duty for councils to act on climate and a strengthened 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.660 duty for nature as well. So we're working with 00:22:10.660 --> 00:22:12.980 Wildlife and Countryside Link for there to be, 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.299 as I said, a legal duty for councils to act on 00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:17.420 climate and to contribute to the Climate Change 00:22:17.420 --> 00:22:19.180 Act, but also to contribute to the Environment 00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:23.259 Act and to take forward policies that also make 00:22:23.259 --> 00:22:25.339 sure that climate adaptation is baked in as well. 00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:27.309 And I think that's one of the things that we're 00:22:27.309 --> 00:22:29.130 pushing for, because we see that as being able 00:22:29.130 --> 00:22:32.029 to support councils and unlocking local climate 00:22:32.029 --> 00:22:34.369 action and driving it forward. In terms of the 00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:35.710 other things that I think really needs to happen, 00:22:35.829 --> 00:22:40.009 I think that one of the campaigns and UK Divest, 00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:42.829 or Divest UK, sorry, really work on this is around 00:22:42.829 --> 00:22:45.670 the pension fund divestment. There is so much 00:22:45.670 --> 00:22:48.670 money still that's from people's pension funds, 00:22:48.950 --> 00:22:51.250 which are basically supporting fossil fuel projects 00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:56.000 in the UK, but also across the world. moving 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:58.140 that money away, that financing away from fossil 00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:00.579 fuels is probably one of the biggest changes 00:23:00.579 --> 00:23:03.200 that we can make in terms of driving that money 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.000 towards renewable energy and the clean energy 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.099 transition. I think that's one of the things 00:23:07.099 --> 00:23:08.940 that I would highlight as something that needs 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:10.740 to change. Thank you. I know we could talk about 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:13.960 this all day because there's a whole multitude 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.619 of factors involved in all of this. Now, you 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.460 obviously have a job that fits and suits your 00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:21.740 values because you've talked about your background. 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:24.160 But do you think, and you've mentioned, I think, 00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:27.480 solar panels, but overall, do you think you're 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.500 able to lead a sustainable lifestyle yourself 00:23:30.500 --> 00:23:33.279 personally? So I rent, so I don't have control 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.299 of the building that I live in, unfortunately, 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:38.799 in terms of making some of those changes. But 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:42.440 yeah, I think so. I'm vegetarian, basically vegan 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:45.859 at home. I basically don't fly. I've taken one 00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:49.240 return flight in the past five or six years. 00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:52.799 I don't own a car. I haven't done for five or 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:54.660 six years as well, which helps because I live 00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:57.099 in London and the transport system here is obviously 00:23:57.099 --> 00:23:59.980 so good. But, you know, there are aspects that 00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:01.619 have changed. It's not just something that I 00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:04.819 want to do in my job, but also obviously take 00:24:04.819 --> 00:24:07.579 the action within my own life as well. But even 00:24:07.579 --> 00:24:09.160 those those things that you can take in your 00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:10.960 life, I think the most important thing that I've 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:14.119 done and and try to continue to do is to actually 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.259 spend some time supporting turning up to protests, 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.180 turn up supporting the advocacy at the local 00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:22.019 level and also at the national level in terms 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:25.279 of other campaigns that are. that are going through 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.180 at the moment that are trying to drive for climate 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:29.299 action across the UK, you know, supporting groups 00:24:29.299 --> 00:24:31.579 like Uplift who are pushing back against Rosebank 00:24:31.579 --> 00:24:34.000 or the Transport Action Network who are fighting 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.619 the expansion of new roads but also promoting 00:24:36.619 --> 00:24:39.259 active travel, you know, going to my local council 00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:40.740 and saying that actually climate action needs 00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:42.700 to be improved here, I think that's the most 00:24:42.700 --> 00:24:44.960 important switch that I made in my life is a 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.240 constant decision to be. active and involved 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.519 in advocating for climate action, both the local 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:52.859 and national level. Super. Thank you very much 00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:56.680 to Isaac Beaver from Climate Emergency UK and 00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:59.859 that's all about being very active and that advocacy 00:24:59.859 --> 00:25:02.480 role which we can all play a part of. So thank 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:05.539 you very much to Isaac for providing such insight. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.740 There can be no doubt that climate change is 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:09.940 the biggest challenge of our time. Today we must 00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:12.220 reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global 00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:15.140 warming. Today we must act for tomorrow adjusting 00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:17.079 our lifestyles to current and future impacts 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.829 of climate change. Today, we must use our collective 00:25:19.829 --> 00:25:22.190 wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments. 00:25:22.609 --> 00:25:25.509 Today, we work for tomorrow's world. Don't forget 00:25:25.509 --> 00:25:28.029 to subscribe to our podcast channels and please 00:25:28.029 --> 00:25:32.029 email us at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk with 00:25:32.029 --> 00:25:35.730 your ideas and anything else you'd like to comment 00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:38.269 on regarding our podcasts. Thank you very much 00:25:38.269 --> 00:25:40.569 to Isaac. Thank you for having me. Appreciate 00:25:40.569 --> 00:25:43.990 it. Thank you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:48.019 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:25:48.019 --> 00:25:51.319 about our work and to find more content, please 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:56.079 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.