WEBVTT 00:00:06.990 --> 00:00:10.550 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.710 a podcast from Salix. My guest is John Savage, 00:00:15.050 --> 00:00:18.210 who is a Southampton City Councillor. John is 00:00:18.210 --> 00:00:21.469 a lifelong labour supporter with membership since 00:00:21.469 --> 00:00:24.550 1987. He has lived in Southampton for more than 00:00:24.550 --> 00:00:27.379 13 years where he's raised his children. John 00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:29.660 has been a Southampton City Councillor for more 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:31.980 than four years supporting local people in a 00:00:31.980 --> 00:00:34.759 range of casework and delivering numerous projects 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:38.200 across the ward. John has been chair of the Planning 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.159 and Rights of Way panel and is now cabinet member 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:45.340 for Environment and Net Zero. So today we're 00:00:45.340 --> 00:00:47.359 going to talk about local plans and how they 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:51.390 can play a big difference. and influence and 00:00:51.390 --> 00:00:54.450 our UK pledge, of course, which is to reach net 00:00:54.450 --> 00:00:57.990 zero carbon emissions by 2050. So welcome to 00:00:57.990 --> 00:01:00.229 John. Hi, Hannah. Nice to be talking to you. 00:01:00.570 --> 00:01:02.850 So tell us a little bit about what makes you 00:01:02.850 --> 00:01:05.310 tick, John. What has driven you to pursue a career 00:01:05.310 --> 00:01:08.390 in politics? Where does that start and how do 00:01:08.390 --> 00:01:11.010 you believe you can make change happen? I'm from 00:01:11.010 --> 00:01:14.590 Liverpool originally, and I was brought up in 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:16.629 a single parent family. My father left when I 00:01:16.629 --> 00:01:21.780 was one. And I suppose I got a real sense of 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:25.060 what was fair and what was right from my mother 00:01:25.060 --> 00:01:27.760 who brought me up alone until I was actually 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:30.359 probably about eight. I've got a slightly complicated 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:32.439 background because my mother was married three 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.680 times. I have two stepfathers and I have two 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:39.719 siblings from each of those other fathers. And 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:41.500 there's a whole load of stuff that kind of goes 00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:44.209 with that. but one of the things that got instilled 00:01:44.209 --> 00:01:47.170 with me in an early age was the issue around 00:01:47.170 --> 00:01:50.829 travel. My mum went for the Cunard shipping company, 00:01:51.269 --> 00:01:54.430 in fact a Brockle Bank steamship company before 00:01:54.430 --> 00:01:56.469 that, and my first holiday was on a cargo ship 00:01:56.469 --> 00:02:00.689 and she used to bring home stamps from the office 00:02:00.689 --> 00:02:03.109 and I had them all in my collection book and 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:06.189 it had like an atlas in there as well and I almost 00:02:06.189 --> 00:02:08.919 used to sort of traveled the world in that way 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:10.639 through just looking at the atlas and where all 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.360 these stamps came from. I ended up the first 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.860 member of my family to go to university. I'm 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:18.219 a bit of a generalist. I started studying a science 00:02:18.219 --> 00:02:20.219 degree and then ended up doing a politics and 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.719 history degree. When I finished that, I ended 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:25.879 up traveling to Africa and teaching in Sudan 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:29.500 a long time ago now. and I actually eventually 00:02:29.500 --> 00:02:31.900 traveled the length of Africa and traveled all 00:02:31.900 --> 00:02:34.419 over the place and I saw an awful lot of injustice 00:02:34.419 --> 00:02:37.699 and I felt that sense of fairness that wanted 00:02:37.699 --> 00:02:41.199 to I could shape other people's lives if I made 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.180 a difference and I came back to this country 00:02:44.180 --> 00:02:46.560 did lots of different jobs since but a lot of 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:49.319 them have been around hopefully making a difference 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.159 in other people's lives. I was a teacher for 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.560 17 years. I worked for four years with people 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:55.560 with learning disabilities. I've done an awful 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:58.400 lot, too much to talk about in this podcast actually. 00:02:59.180 --> 00:03:01.840 So it is really making a difference that's driving 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:05.159 a whole number of factors there about the way 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:07.819 your childhood was shaped. Now we're talking 00:03:07.819 --> 00:03:10.319 today about climate change and climate, in fact 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.680 we're facing climate crisis. What part do you 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.000 think local government decision making has to 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.050 play? in changing how we all operate and addressing 00:03:19.050 --> 00:03:23.069 climate change and seeking those solutions. It's 00:03:23.069 --> 00:03:25.150 a really difficult one this because I think it's 00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:28.129 really vital that we set the agenda. The things 00:03:28.129 --> 00:03:30.169 that are important and the things that we need 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:34.349 to do. There's lots of stuff that we are doing 00:03:34.349 --> 00:03:36.689 and will be doing. Some of them become quite 00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:38.770 contentious and it's very difficult operating 00:03:38.770 --> 00:03:41.210 in the political world where You know, let's 00:03:41.210 --> 00:03:43.169 face it, if we want to introduce some kind of 00:03:43.169 --> 00:03:48.009 a system, let's say a pedestrianization of an 00:03:48.009 --> 00:03:50.750 area and then, you know, your opposition are 00:03:50.750 --> 00:03:52.969 chomping on the bit that they're that we are 00:03:52.969 --> 00:03:55.509 against cars and so on and so forth. We have 00:03:55.509 --> 00:03:57.189 to live in a political climate and we have to 00:03:57.189 --> 00:03:59.169 try to bring people with us. It's really, really 00:03:59.169 --> 00:04:01.310 difficult. But there's an awful lot of things 00:04:01.310 --> 00:04:04.669 that we have been doing and continue to do things 00:04:04.669 --> 00:04:07.969 we can do locally, particularly around clean 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:11.139 air, our transport policy. We've done an awful 00:04:11.139 --> 00:04:13.860 lot over the last few years. I'm a little bit 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:16.399 sad about the outcome of one particular scheme, 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.160 the Portswood Broadway scheme, which in the end 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:23.060 didn't go through because we didn't bring the 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:26.240 local people with us on that one. But we've developed 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.000 bus lanes so that we can improve bus travel, 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.459 more protected cycle lanes. We need to do more 00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:33.699 of those, but we are increasing the amount of 00:04:33.699 --> 00:04:36.060 cycling in the city to make it safer for people 00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:39.600 to get around in different ways. We look at those 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.139 areas where we've got part of the city where 00:04:42.139 --> 00:04:45.399 wards in Southampton more than half the people 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.860 who live there haven't got access to a car and 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:50.579 we need to be able to provide appropriate choices 00:04:50.579 --> 00:04:53.389 for all of those people. It really is looking 00:04:53.389 --> 00:04:55.829 at as in terms of local authority to be very 00:04:55.829 --> 00:04:59.050 clear It's influencing that local plan as you 00:04:59.050 --> 00:05:01.290 say the transport planning you have an influence 00:05:01.290 --> 00:05:04.029 over development as well and clean air zones 00:05:04.029 --> 00:05:07.389 presumably Yeah, as well as those cycle paths 00:05:07.389 --> 00:05:10.029 and of course parking policies around all of 00:05:10.029 --> 00:05:13.009 that as well. Absolutely There's something about 00:05:13.009 --> 00:05:16.110 all that that you I have to remember that Southampton 00:05:16.110 --> 00:05:19.029 was the first city in the country to develop 00:05:19.029 --> 00:05:21.329 geothermal, transforming the city in the way 00:05:21.329 --> 00:05:24.610 that we deal with our energy and we can sell 00:05:24.610 --> 00:05:27.829 that story really, really well. We've got plans 00:05:27.829 --> 00:05:29.649 for that going forward. You might talk about 00:05:29.649 --> 00:05:33.170 that a bit later. We're also a port and we have 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:34.810 an awful lot of emissions that come from our 00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:37.529 port and we've got other real problems in the 00:05:37.529 --> 00:05:40.670 city with regard to electrical supply and it's 00:05:40.670 --> 00:05:44.240 actually a really complex issue and but we can 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:45.959 change some of these things and we can bring 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.600 people with us but we're living in an area where 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:52.980 political disagreements will happen and we have 00:05:52.980 --> 00:05:56.180 had in the past certain parties who I've spoken 00:05:56.180 --> 00:05:59.779 to in full council who are thinking that climate 00:05:59.779 --> 00:06:01.800 change doesn't even really exist it's not an 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:04.779 issue for them. How do you see climate change 00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:07.699 impacting Southampton and the area around it 00:06:07.699 --> 00:06:11.620 for example in the next 10 to 20 years, because 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:15.379 climate change risks are great. We're looking 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:17.180 at climate change, we're looking at climate crisis, 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:19.680 we're looking at climate news on our news most 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:23.860 days. How do you see those risks and how it impacts 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:27.389 the communities? We have really good weather 00:06:27.389 --> 00:06:29.209 in Southampton. I mentioned I came originally 00:06:29.209 --> 00:06:31.170 from the north of England. We get excellent weather 00:06:31.170 --> 00:06:34.709 here. It's warm, largely dry, almost a microclimate 00:06:34.709 --> 00:06:37.629 in this position and location to the Isle of 00:06:37.629 --> 00:06:42.170 Wight. We get really quite low rainfall. One 00:06:42.170 --> 00:06:46.670 of the impacts for the city is droughts and very, 00:06:46.670 --> 00:06:49.509 very high temperatures affecting the lives of 00:06:49.509 --> 00:06:52.220 the people who live here. Fortunately, we are 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:54.360 quite a green city in that we've got an awful 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:56.720 lot of tree cover and we need to maintain that 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:00.579 and make sure that we plant more trees to have 00:07:00.579 --> 00:07:02.360 the cooling effect on the city that we want. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.899 We've seen the ornamental lake in Southampton 00:07:05.899 --> 00:07:10.199 Common virtually dry up because of low rainfall 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.339 and high temperatures. And to be honest with 00:07:12.339 --> 00:07:15.879 you, also probably needed a little bit more maintenance 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:18.220 that we had the money to be able to provide for 00:07:18.220 --> 00:07:21.269 so that there was silt there. and the silting 00:07:21.269 --> 00:07:24.970 causes problems. We had fish that were dying 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:28.589 in the lake and it got smaller and smaller. Unfortunately, 00:07:28.589 --> 00:07:30.870 we did get some heavy rain shortly afterwards 00:07:30.870 --> 00:07:34.389 and we were able to see the lake fill again. 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:37.449 But we will see that all over the place and that 00:07:37.449 --> 00:07:41.689 will impact lots of things like loss of biodiversity, 00:07:42.310 --> 00:07:44.529 certain creatures that are really quite valuable 00:07:44.529 --> 00:07:47.720 in this city may well die. possibly become extinct. 00:07:48.139 --> 00:07:51.319 We've got great crested newts on the common in 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:55.139 a special area. And it's a very, very precious, 00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:57.459 rare species that lives there. And we've got 00:07:57.459 --> 00:08:00.860 so many others as well. Going on to people, maybe 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:03.240 much more importantly, we're going to see people 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.819 who are struggling to be able to live in their 00:08:06.819 --> 00:08:10.100 homes in a cool fashion. And in winter, they'll 00:08:10.100 --> 00:08:12.160 be cold in order to they'll need to be able to 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:16.019 heat themselves and drafty. damp -ridden homes 00:08:16.019 --> 00:08:18.220 and we need to do something about that. Climate 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:20.939 change has a real big effect and I think one 00:08:20.939 --> 00:08:22.839 of your other questions that might be coming 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.259 up relates to impacts on the poorest in our communities 00:08:26.259 --> 00:08:29.220 because these do affect the poorest people. The 00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:31.019 poorest people find it most difficult to keep 00:08:31.019 --> 00:08:35.039 cool and the most difficult to keep warm in winter. 00:08:35.779 --> 00:08:38.669 The whole issue to do with that and the rising 00:08:38.669 --> 00:08:41.450 fuel costs as well which we've seen with the 00:08:41.450 --> 00:08:44.110 war in Ukraine is a massive issue. Climate change 00:08:44.110 --> 00:08:46.250 is really going to affect us and that's before 00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:50.090 we even mention rising sea levels and the impact 00:08:50.090 --> 00:08:52.230 particularly in our city centre which is most 00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:54.629 at threat but also on the borders of the river 00:08:54.629 --> 00:08:58.250 Itchin. We really do need to work with government 00:08:58.250 --> 00:09:01.779 to have sea defences that can combat that. And 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:04.460 that is you've touched on the heat waves and 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:06.539 of course the rising sea levels. Now there was 00:09:06.539 --> 00:09:10.899 some work I think by Climate Central which looked 00:09:10.899 --> 00:09:14.639 at the areas that would be underwater in years 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:17.620 to come. And there are, you're talking about 00:09:17.620 --> 00:09:21.379 keeping our homes warm, keeping our homes cool, 00:09:21.379 --> 00:09:23.059 but you're talking about the rising sea levels. 00:09:23.179 --> 00:09:26.659 And this report from Climate Central talked about 00:09:26.830 --> 00:09:30.610 whole areas of Southampton possibly being underwater. 00:09:31.049 --> 00:09:32.669 I think it mentioned the football club, it mentioned 00:09:32.669 --> 00:09:35.370 the chapel area of Southampton. And of course 00:09:35.370 --> 00:09:38.370 those areas are home to many businesses, hotels, 00:09:38.610 --> 00:09:40.809 et cetera. And that's a large part of your economy. 00:09:41.409 --> 00:09:44.250 Do you see that as a, that must be part of your 00:09:44.250 --> 00:09:48.509 crisis planning? It really is. I'm so concerned 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:52.600 about it. I took time out to catch. the Minister 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:55.960 for Rivers and Floods, Emma Hardy, to impress 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:00.220 upon her the need that we have to release funds 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:02.740 to support a plan which has already been sorted 00:10:02.740 --> 00:10:04.220 out actually. It's called the River Itch and 00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:06.639 Flood Alleviation Scheme and it's a big scheme. 00:10:06.740 --> 00:10:08.840 It's got quite a big price tag on it as well 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:12.279 to move forward and defend the city. There was 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:14.460 a plan. I think the government was struggling 00:10:14.460 --> 00:10:16.279 to work out where all that money was going to 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.299 be coming from. My mission in my conversation 00:10:19.299 --> 00:10:23.139 with her was to discuss whether the priority 00:10:23.139 --> 00:10:26.179 of it that it should be for the national government 00:10:26.179 --> 00:10:29.740 to sort this out and I'm having follow -up discussions 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:32.899 with Emma and her team and also with the Environment 00:10:32.899 --> 00:10:35.539 Agency. What's all wrapped up into this? It's 00:10:35.539 --> 00:10:38.299 quite a complex picture but we know that businesses 00:10:38.299 --> 00:10:40.820 want to come and make their headquarters in Southampton. 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:42.899 There's two things that are preventing them. 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.399 One of them is the shortage of electrical supply 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.190 for the whole city. We don't have a big enough 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:50.490 cable coming in from the National Grid to be 00:10:50.490 --> 00:10:52.830 able to supply us with the energy needs of the 00:10:52.830 --> 00:10:55.570 city going forward. And they're also worried 00:10:55.570 --> 00:10:57.990 about the risk of flooding in those areas where 00:10:57.990 --> 00:11:00.149 they may want to develop. And we've got a catch 00:11:00.149 --> 00:11:03.870 -22 situation where... At the moment, the government's 00:11:03.870 --> 00:11:06.789 view on it is that the river rich and flood alleviation 00:11:06.789 --> 00:11:10.110 scheme can be largely supported through development 00:11:10.110 --> 00:11:12.490 funds that were coming from developers. So a 00:11:12.490 --> 00:11:14.370 developer would come in, build a building, and 00:11:14.370 --> 00:11:17.009 then they get SIL money or Section 106 money. 00:11:17.289 --> 00:11:20.870 It's money that comes from the developer to improve 00:11:20.870 --> 00:11:23.950 the local environments and local infrastructure. 00:11:24.629 --> 00:11:27.029 My feeling on it is that that's a very difficult 00:11:27.029 --> 00:11:31.549 ask. That's what I've been busy on. working very 00:11:31.549 --> 00:11:33.970 hard with our MPs on that as well. I think we 00:11:33.970 --> 00:11:37.950 can get there and we may be able to get money 00:11:37.950 --> 00:11:40.669 from various wealth funds and things to be able 00:11:40.669 --> 00:11:43.710 to sort that out but the national agenda for 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:47.269 this government is growth and this city is poised 00:11:47.269 --> 00:11:50.190 to have really solid green growth but we also 00:11:50.190 --> 00:11:52.870 need that investment to defend our infrastructure. 00:11:53.389 --> 00:11:55.450 And of course the other thing you need are targets 00:11:55.450 --> 00:11:58.250 and we've got a lot of targets. We read a lot 00:11:58.250 --> 00:12:02.039 and we hear a lot about 50 targets, 20, 30 targets, 00:12:02.299 --> 00:12:05.220 20, 45 targets, depending on, you know, where 00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:09.019 you are. Do you think our emissions reduction 00:12:09.019 --> 00:12:12.379 targets are realistic? Because Southampton City 00:12:12.379 --> 00:12:14.200 Council has set a target to achieve, I think 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.559 20, 35 for the city with a specific aim for the 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:21.519 council itself to be net zero by 2030. And they're 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:25.399 part of the city's green city charter and plan, 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:27.759 which is part of the council's corporate plan, 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.960 2022, 2030. How realistic are these? I'm a glass 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.639 half full kind of person and I'm fairly optimistic 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.620 but I've no doubt that these are difficult targets. 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:41.200 There are certain things in the pipeline which 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.679 I think can help. I mentioned about the electrical 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.620 supply. It's very difficult for us to decarbonize 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.759 without the electrical supply that we need, the 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.039 green clean electrical supply that we need for 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.919 the city. It's very difficult for people to buy 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.159 EV cars if they've got nowhere to charge them. 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.620 Similarly with the buses, the buses in Southampton 00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:03.460 would like to be battery powered buses. The cruise 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:05.820 industry would really like to be able to plug 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:09.120 into shore power. At the moment we have two shore 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.100 power facilities, but if we were to switch them 00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:13.360 both on at once, the lights would go off in the 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.399 city. We haven't got the electrical supply. I'm 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.539 working very hard at the moment with Scottish 00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:21.539 and Southern who are our network operator to 00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:24.460 provide all this and I've been every opportunity 00:13:24.460 --> 00:13:27.409 I get. to meet with them and lean on them to 00:13:27.409 --> 00:13:30.370 improve the pace of change. We're doing that. 00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:34.429 I also had a meeting that was organized by Satya 00:13:34.429 --> 00:13:38.110 Kaur MP and Alan Whitehead, who was the former 00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:40.590 Shadow Secretary of State for Energy, I think. 00:13:41.029 --> 00:13:43.769 We organized a kind of a coalition of the willing 00:13:43.769 --> 00:13:46.590 and Scottish and Southern were there, along with 00:13:46.590 --> 00:13:50.090 a whole load of other players to come together 00:13:50.090 --> 00:13:53.940 to have a determination. to deliver what we need 00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:56.919 in the next couple of years. We mentioned before 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.840 about geothermal energy, that sort of sitting 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:01.779 in the background at the moment, it's very old 00:14:01.779 --> 00:14:03.779 and it's not really delivering an awful lot for 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:07.799 us, but it's been identified by scientists that 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.679 there is more energy there if we were to sort 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:14.860 that out and by going to market we could do another 00:14:14.860 --> 00:14:18.019 borehole. down to about two kilometers, I think, 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:21.820 which could deliver steam, which will not only 00:14:21.820 --> 00:14:25.840 heat an enlarged district network from geothermal 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.840 heating system, but also provide energy from 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.940 the turbine that could be turned with the steam 00:14:31.940 --> 00:14:34.659 that's produced from that. We've already got 00:14:34.659 --> 00:14:37.399 companies who have already decided where that 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:40.659 borehole will be and got plans in place to provide 00:14:40.659 --> 00:14:42.820 that investment. And that's coming forward very 00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:45.659 quickly. We're right at a pivotal point here. 00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:48.620 If we can get the electricity in as soon as possible, 00:14:48.940 --> 00:14:51.259 if we can get geothermal going as soon as possible, 00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:54.620 I think our targets will be much more attainable. 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.019 There are an awful lot of other things we're 00:14:57.019 --> 00:14:59.840 doing at the moment within the council, big plans 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.460 on waste reduction for the council itself by 00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:06.259 2030. For example, we would want to decarbonize 00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:08.740 our entire vehicle fleet, but we've got an awful 00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:11.480 lot of smaller electric vehicles at the moment. 00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:14.539 bin lorries that's called them at the moment 00:15:14.539 --> 00:15:17.700 are quite old and outdated but we are replacing 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:20.759 those. The anticipation is to fuel them with 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.539 what's called HVO hydrogenated vegetable oil 00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:27.519 which is a 90 % carbon reduction because if you 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.360 like this vegetable oil has already grown it's 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.639 taken CO2 out of the air through its growth and 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.919 then you're burning that to drive your vehicles 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.259 around. I think we'd go to battery operated vehicles 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:42.539 at a later date. It's not quite sorted in the 00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:45.539 refuse fleet to move to all electric unless you're 00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:48.539 in the very flat areas. So many other things. 00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:51.220 I don't know if you know anything about the extended 00:15:51.220 --> 00:15:54.840 producer responsibility that's been extended 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.080 now to the waste area, which means that producers 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.480 who produced cardboard packaging and a wide range 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:05.200 of packaging are ultimately responsible for the 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.000 cost of its disposal and the carbon that's on 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.399 that disposal. And that's just been introduced 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.820 into UK waste. Now, we mentioned people, obviously, 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:19.860 because we're a community, you know, and it is 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:22.159 about making lives better and making difference. 00:16:22.259 --> 00:16:24.220 And we started the conversation right at the 00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:26.759 beginning about making change, making a difference 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:31.399 to people's lives. Because, as we've said, the 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.899 people who are often impacted most by climate 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:36.440 are the ones who can least afford it. And there 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.779 are many statistics, I quote, which I will not 00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:43.080 at the moment. But how can you ensure for your 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.779 residents in Southampton, let's start with Southampton, 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.240 to ensure that the low income and most vulnerable 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.220 residents are protected in all of this conversation? 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:54.200 Because it all sounds terribly exciting when 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.379 we talk about the innovation, the technologies 00:16:56.379 --> 00:16:59.440 we're driving forward to get to these targets. 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:03.789 But we can't forget. are most vulnerable. The 00:17:03.789 --> 00:17:07.349 biggest issue for low income families is housing. 00:17:08.190 --> 00:17:09.589 An awful lot of people who are living in the 00:17:09.589 --> 00:17:14.289 private rented sector and the reluctance of landlords 00:17:14.289 --> 00:17:17.349 to do anything particularly sustainable with 00:17:17.349 --> 00:17:21.609 their own properties to continue to take the 00:17:21.609 --> 00:17:24.819 rent. off low -income families. Some of this 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:28.039 will really be at a national level, but we really 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:30.359 need to have changes to the way that the private 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:34.140 rented sector operates so that people are entitled 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:37.660 to live in clean and environmentally friendly 00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:41.240 homes. Also, we've got programs going forward 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.119 now on our housing we haven't had for some time, 00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:46.920 but we want to help to develop not just with 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:51.220 council houses, but also with other companies 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.460 working in partnership with housing associations. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.980 But my ambition really would be that we have 00:17:56.980 --> 00:18:00.579 the development of more zero energy homes, you 00:18:00.579 --> 00:18:03.160 know, highly insulated homes that have got solar 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:08.079 panels on them and air heat pumps as a standard 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:12.220 and that really good practice is developed across 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:15.839 the whole sector. But we need legislation from 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.799 national government you know if somebody's renting 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.940 out a home in that state to somebody it just 00:18:21.940 --> 00:18:23.920 shouldn't be allowed to happen. I think there 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.140 was some legislation that was planned maybe about 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:29.539 a year or so ago I recall that all rented properties 00:18:29.539 --> 00:18:34.440 had to reach a minimum energy level of efficiency 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.049 and I think that's being pushed back now. But 00:18:38.049 --> 00:18:40.269 we really, really do need that kind of thing. 00:18:40.309 --> 00:18:43.009 I'd like to see every home that gets built has 00:18:43.009 --> 00:18:46.950 solar panels on it. And we do encourage a lot 00:18:46.950 --> 00:18:49.849 of solar purchases in Southampton. We have a 00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:52.069 scheme called Solar Together. I think it's a 00:18:52.069 --> 00:18:55.029 Hampshire -wide scheme where we're offering some 00:18:55.029 --> 00:18:57.609 degree of sort of risk avoidance for people because 00:18:57.609 --> 00:18:59.750 they know that if they're going to get a solar 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:02.410 scheme, they're going to get it in coordination 00:19:02.410 --> 00:19:04.869 with their local authority. And then it's working 00:19:04.869 --> 00:19:07.109 with Trades people that you can trust you're 00:19:07.109 --> 00:19:09.130 not going to get ripped off. We need to do more 00:19:09.130 --> 00:19:12.170 of that We need to have more and more of it across 00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:14.829 the piece I think the thing about people who 00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:17.869 are low incomes is and I see a lot of this with 00:19:17.869 --> 00:19:21.630 where people will be cycling to work and using 00:19:21.630 --> 00:19:24.329 public transports we need to work with the bus 00:19:24.329 --> 00:19:28.630 companies to keep bus costs down and I think 00:19:28.630 --> 00:19:30.750 there's things like if you are doing a regular 00:19:30.750 --> 00:19:33.480 commute and if you have you know you can get 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.180 a monthly bus pass or even an annual bus pass 00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:39.380 you can get it very very reduced fares compared 00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:42.839 to you know paying it one off we currently have 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.440 it's part of a national scheme it's been around 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.500 for a while now but all night time fares are 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:51.960 one pound we just need to keep making sure that 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.839 public transport your bike and and your wheels 00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:00.039 and your feet are really safe and easy way to 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:02.099 get around. And making it again, making that 00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:04.980 all come together, that nighttime economy, allowing 00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:07.660 people to get to work at minimal cost, do their 00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:09.880 jobs, and of course, going back to those homes. 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.279 And we, again, at Salix, we do have, we have 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.079 played a role in the social housing decarbonisation 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:18.960 fund delivering that and home upgrade grant, 00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:23.559 which is all about putting renewable solar PV 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:26.599 heat pumps into people's homes and making them 00:20:26.859 --> 00:20:29.960 Places where people want to be that places are 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.700 safe that people can children can do their homework 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:34.619 you don't have to be out all day just to keep 00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:38.220 warm and that's that's really important for the 00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:42.640 whole well -being of everybody. So just for a 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.599 moment, let's talk about some of the positives, 00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.619 because in this whole conversation, there's the 00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:50.980 opportunity of jobs and green jobs, and of course, 00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:53.019 all the technologies, because it kind of makes 00:20:53.019 --> 00:20:57.099 sense. And I've spoken to one of my guests recently, 00:20:57.140 --> 00:20:59.819 and he said, well, economics is on our side. 00:21:00.380 --> 00:21:02.700 It kind of makes sense, doesn't it, to go green 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.490 in terms of jobs and economy? Absolutely. I think 00:21:06.490 --> 00:21:08.670 I've actually seen this, but we're talking about 00:21:08.670 --> 00:21:12.009 pension schemes. You know, an awful lot of authorities 00:21:12.009 --> 00:21:15.750 are moving out of petrochemical shares and into 00:21:15.750 --> 00:21:18.430 green technology shares, because actually they 00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:20.829 provide a better return on investment. It's really 00:21:20.829 --> 00:21:23.849 important. We're very well placed in Southampton 00:21:23.849 --> 00:21:27.190 with the two universities that we've got. An 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:29.950 awful lot of work going on there. A lot of things 00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:32.569 that are going on in the Porter area and National 00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:35.869 Oceanography Centre. And we're really working 00:21:35.869 --> 00:21:40.089 to develop some of these new green jobs. I did 00:21:40.089 --> 00:21:41.910 hear a conference, somebody said, don't talk 00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:44.529 about new green industries, just call them as 00:21:44.529 --> 00:21:47.609 new industries, because sometimes you almost 00:21:47.609 --> 00:21:50.109 toxify the name by referring them to as green. 00:21:50.450 --> 00:21:52.750 These are just new ways of working, and they're 00:21:52.750 --> 00:21:55.210 really exciting. There's lots of jobs that we 00:21:55.210 --> 00:21:58.450 can develop out there. I have spoken to local 00:21:58.450 --> 00:22:01.640 colleges about apprenticeships and training that 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.660 is available to move into the electric heat pumps 00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:10.099 and solar panel installation. Maybe more importantly, 00:22:10.339 --> 00:22:13.299 we need really good construction industry where 00:22:13.299 --> 00:22:16.569 people are building with. new materials. I visited 00:22:16.569 --> 00:22:19.650 these kind of homes of the future. They don't 00:22:19.650 --> 00:22:21.089 build them with bricks and mortar, of course, 00:22:21.509 --> 00:22:23.970 with the firing of bricks alone, the amount of 00:22:23.970 --> 00:22:26.150 carbon that's embedded in the production of those 00:22:26.150 --> 00:22:28.930 things. These things are very, very wide walls, 00:22:29.069 --> 00:22:31.990 maybe that thick insulated materials that last 00:22:31.990 --> 00:22:34.410 an awful long time, incredibly lightweight. So 00:22:34.410 --> 00:22:36.390 when you put them on the back of a lorry, huge 00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:38.930 walls, you get a whole house onto a single lorry 00:22:38.930 --> 00:22:41.609 and it, you know, it doesn't use an awful lot 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:44.539 of electricity to drive around on it, you know, 00:22:44.619 --> 00:22:48.799 these are incredibly efficient and we need to 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.180 be moving forward with more of those. I'm also 00:22:52.180 --> 00:22:55.079 conscious, because I did used to chair planning, 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.059 one of the things that bothers me is the idea 00:22:58.059 --> 00:22:59.900 that we have a building that's been up for maybe 00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:02.119 20 years and we knock it down, we build another 00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.599 one out of steel and concrete again. I would 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:08.180 like to see more changes where we can retrofit 00:23:08.180 --> 00:23:12.400 existing buildings to be able to extend their 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.000 life even more rather than just knocking things 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.779 down and building with concrete over and over 00:23:16.779 --> 00:23:19.720 again. We're very, very well placed in this part 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:23.059 of the country. I mean, we have got all the oil 00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:26.859 terminal on our doorstep and I'd like to see 00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:30.500 more work going on there to sort of change the 00:23:30.500 --> 00:23:32.500 nature of the industries that take place there. 00:23:32.779 --> 00:23:36.160 there's a whole new investment going into the 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:39.619 Freeport and the idea of Freeport is that when 00:23:39.619 --> 00:23:42.460 that investment goes in part and parcel of that 00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:44.400 and the funding that goes into it and the businesses 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.680 that are encouraged to operate there should be 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.259 green and environmentally friendly industries 00:23:50.259 --> 00:23:52.960 and businesses that operate out of there. We've 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.799 got an awful lot of scope to be able to clean 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.980 up our dirty oil industry into something that's 00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:02.170 cleaner. Working with hydrogen has a bit of a 00:24:02.170 --> 00:24:06.059 bad name at the moment because It takes much 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:08.680 more energy to produce hydrogen, which is a clean 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:12.019 fuel, but it takes an awful lot more energy to 00:24:12.019 --> 00:24:15.720 be able to produce it than just delivering straightforward 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.900 electricity down the wire to people. I was a 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:21.940 bit disappointed on the carbon capture and storage 00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:24.920 schemes. The Solent Cluster came together a couple 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.700 of years ago to build capacity to develop more 00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:31.299 and more carbon capture and storage. I think 00:24:31.299 --> 00:24:33.279 the funding at that time went to the north of 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.799 England. both to the northwest and the northeast. 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.220 I think the infrastructure in, you know, deep 00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:41.339 sea mines under the North Sea were sort of more 00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:43.619 suitable for that sort of technology. But we 00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:46.660 do have the capacity here to do likewise. And 00:24:46.660 --> 00:24:50.400 we've also got, you know, the capacity for a 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.779 double tidal range. We could introduce tidal. 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.619 here as well as wind power. So definitely a place 00:24:55.619 --> 00:24:57.720 to watch very carefully. So I'm hoping you'll 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.480 come again and talk to us post post post about 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.759 all of the work that has been achieved. One final 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.819 question because we really are running out of 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.519 time, John, but I would like to ask very briefly 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:12.279 is we spend a lot of time in these podcasts talking 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.420 about global issues, talking about how technologies 00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:18.500 can have an impact, a positive impact, how people 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:21.299 are living and addressing climate change issues. 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:25.849 I'd like to throw the question back as well at 00:25:25.849 --> 00:25:29.309 our guests and ask you, what sacrifices have 00:25:29.309 --> 00:25:33.049 you made in your life to address climate change? 00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:35.170 Have you made any sacrifices and would you say 00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:38.549 you lead a sustainable lifestyle? I cycle an 00:25:38.549 --> 00:25:41.630 awful lot. I always have done. I've certainly 00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:46.160 moved away. I do own a car, but I think... It's 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.000 quite a small engine car. I've had it for quite 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.559 a long time. And at the moment, keeping it on 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.500 the road seems to be the greenest thing I can 00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:56.779 do. My next car would be electric. But I've got 00:25:56.779 --> 00:25:59.660 an e -bike, so I travel all over. I've cycled 00:25:59.660 --> 00:26:03.000 several times to Brighton, for example. And I've 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.039 always been very interested in cycling, so I 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.480 also, I cycled down through Europe. I cycled 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:10.920 to Spain one year, not on electric bike, but 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.460 on a standard bike. My current bike is an e -bike 00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:15.900 because I'm getting on a bit. I've given up an 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:17.880 awful lot of the flying I used to do. I went 00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:19.859 about five years without getting on an airplane. 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:23.789 I've got solar on my roof. and the next time 00:26:23.789 --> 00:26:27.470 I will be moving, getting my gas boiler out and 00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:29.710 moving over to an electric heat pump as soon 00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:33.690 as is possible. Those are all good steps. I'm 00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:35.930 not saying that we can all cycle all around Europe. 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.859 But I think there's a really positive step. So 00:26:38.859 --> 00:26:41.099 thank you very much to John and thank you very 00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:43.640 much to John for joining me today and for providing 00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.200 such insight. There can be no doubt that climate 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:47.880 change is the biggest challenge of our time. 00:26:48.220 --> 00:26:50.140 Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions 00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:52.720 to slow global warming. Today, we must act for 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:54.740 tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current 00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:57.019 and future impacts of climate change. Today, 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.279 we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:01.680 on our climate commitments. Today, we work for 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.099 tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe to 00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:07.150 our podcast channels and email. us with any ideas 00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:11.009 and views at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. 00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:13.630 Thank you very much to John. Thank you. Excellent. 00:27:13.990 --> 00:27:16.190 You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:27:16.190 --> 00:27:20.210 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:23.509 about our work and to find more content, please 00:27:23.509 --> 00:27:28.269 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.