This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast
from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate
Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to
the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker
and I believe that the best way to communicate
a message is by being passionate about what you
are talking about. Through that passion, I believe
that you take people with you and create action
using your influence to make change and make
a difference. Our task today is to get all of
us to net zero. I've got two wonderful guests
with me today from the UK Climate Coalition and
that's Charlotte Lasvesky and Olivia Horne. They're
on a mission to mobilise and empower young people
to take positive action for global climate justice.
UK Youth Coalition is a voluntary consensus -led
non -hierarchy and non -profit organisation.
The community working group's aim is to engage
local communities in the action against the climate
emergency. The group's project spans from the
analysis of MPs voting record on climate change
issues to delivering workshops to young people
to educate and equip them with the skills needed
to achieve climate justice. Olivia works as a
communications officer at an environmental charity
and her work at UK Youth Coalition is as a member
of the Communications Working Group as well as
the Network Liaison with the Climate Coalition.
Charlotte is currently a Student Union sabbatical
officer and one of the press officers at UK Youth
Coalition. Charlotte has been involved with climate
justice for several years, both in the UK and
on an international context. I cannot wait to
hear more. Thank you to both of you for joining
me today. Thank you to Olivia and to Charlotte.
Tell us about your work and your interest in
the environment and where that stems from and
how has that developed into this career. My kind
of climate change, climate activist journey actually
started in primary school. So I still remember
we read this picture book that was all about
sort of a rainforest being concreted over and
turned into a car park. And I had nightmares
for two weeks after that. And I think that was
something that really I kind of don't want children
to have that experience, both in real life, but
also we weren't really given any information
about what we could do or it kind of was presented
as this is a crisis that's happening and it's
out of our control. And so I think that's something
that. I really like about UKYCC, the UK Youth
Climate Coalition, is that it's about empowering
young people and kind of rather than just focusing
on what's going wrong, kind of focusing on what
are our powers and changing things. But obviously,
as a primary school student, there wasn't that
much I could do individually. And so I kind of
pushed down those feelings for a while until
I got to university and then I joined some local
climate activist groups and then only a year
ago actually I joined UKYCC in the recruitment
and we're recruiting some new members at the
moment so that'll be really exciting to get a
new lot of recruits in. That's really interesting
to hear about how that vision or that image in
your head then started off this kind of spiral
of, it could easily start this spiral of despair,
which is probably what we'll get onto later for
young people because there is that very delicate
balance isn't there between this anxiety and
actually giving people a voice. Charlotte, how
about you? How does your, how does that, does
that reflect your experience? Yeah, really, really
similar. But mine didn't start until high school,
so I went to prime school in like the countryside.
So it was very much like I was seeing nature
all the time and growing up in that environment.
So it was never kind of crossing any of our minds
that things were worse other places because we
were in this kind of echo chamber. There was
22 people in my class. Like we were such a small
kind of community. So it wasn't. even crossing
my mind that, you know, things were bad for people
across the world. And then I went to high school
in more of a city setting and started noticing
that, oh, nature is not being looked after and,
oh, the government isn't caring as much. And
then when I got to GCSEs, it was just in a science
lesson and it barely scratched the surface. like
it was you know melting ice caps and recycling
there was no mention of justice or power or the
real impacts of the world or it just felt really
kind of distant and abstract and then I ended
up just seeing a post that youth strike was happening
in my local city and I was like yeah I feel like
I need to do it and it isn't like I didn't I
didn't wake up one day wanting to be an activist
it kind of was I looked around and felt like
I had to be and needed to be and needed to kind
of make some sort of difference and make my voice
heard in some sort of way. Okay because of course
research does show that young groups are more
concerned about climate change and Gen Z is the
most eco -conscious generation according to various
reports and researchers that have been carried
out. So Olivia what kind of future do you imagine
for generations to come? And how should climate
justice be assessed because presumably it is
a long -term picture, a long -term impact on
people, on future generations, on the planet?
What do you think the way ahead is? How can that
future, what kind of future do you imagine? Yeah,
I think for me the key word and the future that
I imagine is connection. because I think one
of the key problems today and that has led to
the climate crisis that we're in is a kind of
lack of connection both to the environment but
I also think to each other and kind of the sense
that even now sometimes when countries are trying
to reduce their own CO2 emissions they're basically
just outsourcing them to other countries rather
than thinking if this is something that we're
all in together so I think that's something that
would be key for me in any imagined future. Also
because I think sometimes climate interventions
can be framed as kind of we're losing things
that people are kind of having to make sacrifices.
Whereas actually if you reframe that around connection,
it becomes a much more kind of intentional fulfilling
way of living that you're thinking about your
connection to other people and getting something
back from that rather than just giving something
up. And in terms of climate justice, I think
if people haven't really heard the term before,
a definition would be including historically
marginalised groups and everyone in this transition.
So rather than just replicating the current model
that we've got but with lower carbon emissions,
it's kind of taking this moment as a chance to
reframe how we do everything and kind of include
people whose voices aren't normally heard. And
I do think that sometimes includes being open
to having your point of view challenged and kind
of the privilege that you have. So I mean, I
acknowledge I'm also maybe not always the best
person to speak about this stuff. And I think
that's something we're keen on in UKYC actually,
sorry to keep plugging us, but when we get passes
for the UN's COP and kind of other big climate
events, we try and pass some of those passes
on to activists in the global south who don't
get. given those opportunities to speak and his
voice is also need to be heard. In terms of how
to assess it, it is quite difficult because some
of it is imagining a completely different world
from the one that we currently have. So I do
think that some of it that kind of that have
been institutional and systemic changes rather
than just kind of carrying on with business as
usual, but finding ways to reduce. CO2 emissions.
Okay, so you've got this voice, and it can always
be greater. I'm sure you can always have an even
greater contingency of young people in that voice,
but millennials are certainly the ones who are
going to be seeing the impacts of all the policy,
all the changes that are going on now. And a
question for Charlotte, really, we've talked
about that kind of balance between the anxiety,
but also the action. How do you think in UK youth
coalition, how do you think you can embed a positive
attitude, and socially aware attitudes? How do
you embed that positivity when the conversation
is so difficult, isn't it? It is, it is really
difficult, but I think it's by starting to treat...
is by treating young people as active participants
not passive receivers of things that are happening
so actually you know including them in decision
making visibility in the media and validation
in classrooms actually teaching them about the
the consequences of the climate crisis actually
teaching them What is actually happening at other
parts of the world and that it's not this distant
abstract in the future? Thing is something that
is happening now and it's affecting people in
the present and we need to show that change is
possible and it's happening and it's led by people
it's led by people like them and Hope isn't kind
of this naive thing and I think that's what people
keep on thinking that it is, that hope is this
abstract concept that it's out in the never,
it can never be grass -backed but it can be strategic
and when it's shared it can become really contagious
as well. So actually treating those young people
as active participants and giving them that hope
and those tools can be a really really powerful
thing and that's kind of how you embed that positive
attitude and keep people going and about having
that connection as Olivia was saying and that
community as well. Okay I'm lucky enough to go
to quite a few schools. We work on decarbonisation
projects so that's getting rid of those old fossil
fuel boilers and looking at a range of energy
efficiency measures to help protect our planet
and also future -proof some of these buildings
way into the future for these schools. I get
to meet a lot of young people from primary school
all the way to secondary. I was in a big secondary
school actually last week. And you look at the
walls and they've got pictures about the, you
know, pictures of the earth, pictures of the
planet. It's very important to them. It is part
of that discussion. They've often got eco committees.
They're rarely engaged in that discussion. Do
you think as we move on to secondary school and
there's a whole wealth of subjects for students,
I mean, they take huge numbers of GCSEs, etc.
Do you think that the climate change should be
embedded into the curriculum? Olivia? Yes, I
think it definitely should. I mean, Charlotte
was talking about her experience of climate change
really coming up in a science lesson and it was
simple for me. I'm 26 so I was at school a little
while ago and it was very much focused on kind
of if we were told about actions it was oh don't
forget to turn off the lights when you leave
the classroom or recycle and obviously those
are important things and they're things that
school children have agency over and I think
that's partly why schools used to emphasize that
so much but I also think they've done lots of
studies that have shown that part of the reason
Gen Z are so engaged is because they have this
really high level of climate anxiety. And I think
that partly comes from climate change being framed
as a kind of global scientific issue, but that
does impact them somehow, but sort of that link
isn't quite clear. And I think covering climate
change in all sorts of different subjects would
really help with that. I think if it was covered
in more kind of arts and humanities subjects
that gives people a chance to engage creatively
with the problem. So both in terms of like expressing
their climate anxiety in a way that might help
them work through it in an art lesson or also
kind of maybe writing a short story imagining
what a potential future could be and that could
help come up with some new solutions rather than
just ones that I've been come up with before.
So I really think it is important. I think there
have been a lot of there's been a lot of progress
since I was at school but I do think there's
still some way to go and that it's not just a
kind of scientific issue that needs to be in
science classes because that's not how people
experience and so it doesn't feel true to young
people. We're experiencing climate change every
day to some extent so I get that point. Now going
back to being at the table and using your voices,
I talk here to a lot of scientists, a lot of
engineers, about what's happening to our planet,
the warming, how it looks. And your organization
talks about radically transforming systems of
power. What does that mean for you? What does
that look like, that radically transforming?
I've been on your website, I've looked at that.
How do you see that? I think it means not just
asking for a seat at the table, it's like redesigning
the table. fundamentally and redesigning how
it looks like and how young people are involved
because right now decisions are made by people
who often won't face the consequences or won't
face them as much as young people or marginalised
people now and that's why I think it's really
really important that we are youth led and we
don't want to be consultative we want we want
to lead. the fight we want to lead those attitudes,
those policy decision makers. We want to influence
those decision makers and influence those policy.
And we believe in shifting the power to the margins,
so the people, the communities and the nations
most affected by the climate crisis, as Olivia
was saying, when we have those passes that we
can give to those people that we do. We don't
just want to be heard. We want to be in charge
of building what comes next and being part of
those conversations, not in a tokenistic way,
but in a really meaningful and impactful way
as well. Okay, so there are challenges when you
talk about your membership in engaging the youth,
aren't there? The statistics show that The younger
generation have a shorter attention span and
that's maybe to do with social media and the
flicking through, I think it's eight seconds
flicking, flicking. There's an eight second rule
of people flick, drunk people flick through from
screen to screen, which means you've got to really
engage your audience. There's the influencing
part, but you also have an audience, which is
those billions of young people across the world.
I mean, in New York, UK, but we want to kind
of, we need to work together. Climate. crisis
isn't just here, it's a global issue. So what
are the challenges in engaging the younger generation
in your messaging? Yeah, I think that's a really
important question. That's something we've been
thinking about quite a lot, at least in the communications
working group, which I'm part of. I think there's
an assumption, I've heard this from so many older
people, that our generation will save save the
world and save us. But I think that's putting
a lot of responsibility on young people, but
also assuming that we're a monolith and it's
not, although there are higher levels of engagement
and kind of climate activism in the younger generation,
that doesn't mean that that's uniform across
everyone. And I think some of that is that sometimes
climate activism, well, it's definitely true
and it's being criticized rightly. that climate
activism has kind of become a bit of a niche
kind of elite activity. And I think a lot of
that's put people off and also kind of means
that the way that climate activism has been designed
doesn't always include people. So a lot of it's
kind of big protest movements that if you're
busy or you don't feel safe going to that, that's
not a way you can engage. So you're trying to
think of how to engage people and kind of meet
them where they already are. So we're currently
designing a campaign which is thinking about
what are young people already interested in and
how can we kind of show that that is an activity
that can be kind of slightly shifted to become
climate activism. So for example, one of the
things that I'm particularly interested in is
there are so many sports fans around the world
and there are some kind of sometimes negative
behaviors associated with fans of sports, particularly
football, in the past anyway, and kind of showing
them that that collective power that they have
as a member of this sports club, that gives them
this power to reframe things. So for example,
telling the sports club they're a fan of to improve
their sustainability policy, or to use their
soft power to kind of influence things. Because
I know there are football teams that have become
fully green clubs. went off on a little bit of
a tangent, but that's kind of, I think the challenges
are also places where there's a kind of opportunity
and trying to reframe what climate activism is
or what caring about the environment means so
that people... don't necessarily have to make
a dramatic change to their lifestyle. They can
kind of use things that they're already engaged
in, but just kind of shift the focus to be more
on the climate. And of course, there is that
health focus as well, linking climate change
to what is better for your health, you know,
encouraging healthier lifestyles. Eating less
meat has got to be a healthier way to live. So
it's kind of bringing that together, isn't it?
That kind of clean image and also improve mental
health as well. and bringing all that part of
the into the discussion. And of course, the linking
of issues like social, economic, environmental
issues, they're all interconnected. So it's linking
that climate change to that social justice. And
I don't suppose you can do that enough. But in
terms of practical aspects, If people are going
to say, yes, we can influence, we can lobby,
we want a voice, we want a seat at the table,
we don't want to just be, this isn't just tokenism.
And I know that's a big issue and young people,
the fear of being disenfranchised. But what can
people, what do you think Charlotte, people can...
practically do if you're one of those billions
of young people. And there are many, I think
I've looked at statistics today, the world is
home to about 1 .8 billion young people aged
between 10 and 24. That's huge. So when you think
of those numbers, and of course, there are other
or there are many issues around that globally
in terms of their situations and economic abilities,
etc. But what do you think in the UK, because
we're talking to you about UK climate? action.
So what is the practical things that people can
do, young people can do Charlotte, to make a
difference? I think especially it's easy to think
like this is too big for me, this is too much
for me, this is too much for me to even think
about. And I think that it's really, really easy
to kind of get yourself in that mindset that
you can't do anything. But it's all about kind
of those little changes that you can make to
make yourself kind of Do better for not only
yourself, but for the environment You can you
know go vegan for a day or go vegan if you can't
give up cheese But you can go vegan everything
else don't give up that cheese become vegan everywhere
else That's what really frustrates me when people
like oh, I could go vegetarian, but I couldn't
give up this progress one product go vegetarian
don't give up that product that's absolutely
fine to do if you can find your ways in contributing
in a meaningful way that's absolutely fine if
signing a petition is the way that you can contribute
that's absolutely amazing if you can contribute
a post educate somebody within your life that's
amazing that's incredible that's one step more
than what you were doing yesterday but i think
it's really important to also be conscious that
it's the top 1 % that admits more than the bottom
66%. So while individual choices really do matter,
it's the system change that will shift the dial.
So making these individual changes are great
and will show to other people and to businesses
and corporations and governments that you want
to live a more eco and sustainable lifestyle.
and that is proven to them that there was a shift
within their community but it's actually like
lobbying them and forcing them to make the changes
that will have that effect on everyone else.
So it is always seeing that bigger picture and
staying engaged and aware of what's happening
and of course watching the progress you're making
but not just watching but being part of it. Personally,
okay, I have to ask this question. So we're talking
about climate change, talking about sustainability,
talking about healthier lifestyles. How has that
affected your lifestyle? I mean, do you both
count your carbon footprint every day, for example?
How do you figure that in? I don't count my carbon
footprint. I think I did. I think at secondary
school we had to calculate it, but that was at
least 10 years ago, so it's probably quite a
lot bigger now. Yeah, I think. I've made some
of the changes that Charlotte was talking about,
so I haven't eaten meat for the last sort of
five or six years and having watched the near
David Attenborough documentary Ocean now thinking
about cutting down on fish or making a really
conscious effort to look for sustainably sourced
fish. Although it does make you realise how difficult
that is, especially if you're shopping in a supermarket,
just things aren't labelled very clearly. as
much as consumers can try and make a difference.
If the infrastructure isn't set up for that,
then it is really difficult. And then lucky to
live in a city with really good public transport
and it's very walkable. So that's usually how
I get about. I don't have a car. And then I'm
also quite lucky that most of my family live
within the UK so I can also get the train to
see them. OK, so you're not up in the sky. You
don't have to use that for transport. I try not
to fly. Also partly, I just really hate flying.
Charlotte, is there anything that you can tell
us that you're doing that might inspire others
to follow? Same as Olivia, I try to make those
sustainable choices and vegetarian limit. flying
as much as I can if I'm going to a different
country I try and take you know boats and trains,
a shop second hand as much as my bank account
doesn't like that, charity shops and and places
like vintage are like my favorite places to go
but I'm not kind of like obsessed with like that
personal. perfection piece of it all. It is just
trying to make sure that you are a little better
every single day and it's about making a little
difference every single day. So even if it is
you don't have that one meal. that has a load
of meat in it that one day. I think that's good
enough for that person. And that's the key, isn't
it? It's making all of those little differences
but not taking your eye off the big picture and
having that big influence and that voice. So
thank you very much to Olivia and to Charlotte
today. Thank you very much for providing such
valuable insight into this. important issue that
we're talking about. There can be no doubt that
climate change is the biggest challenge of our
time. Today we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions
to slow global warming. Today we must act for
tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current
and future impacts of climate change. Today we
must use our collective wisdom to deliver on
our climate commitments. Today we work for tomorrow's
world. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast
channels and please do email us at podcast .salixfinance
.co .uk. We'd love to know what you think and
we're always open to new ideas and new suggestions
for our podcasts. But thank you very much to
both Charlotte and Olivia. Really appreciate
your time today to come along and talk about
your work and talk about and also to give us
a sense of that huge passion that you have and
obviously to explain everything about UK Youth
Coalition, which is something we're going to
certainly be watching out for in the future.
So thank you very much to both of you. Thank
you so much. For more information about our work
and to find more content, please visit salixfinance
.co .uk forward slash podcasts.