WEBVTT 00:00:06.870 --> 00:00:10.830 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:13.949 from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:16.510 Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to 00:00:16.510 --> 00:00:19.149 the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker 00:00:19.149 --> 00:00:21.170 and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:23.769 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:23.769 --> 00:00:26.370 are talking about. Through that passion, I believe 00:00:26.370 --> 00:00:28.710 that you take people with you and create action 00:00:28.710 --> 00:00:31.210 using your influence to make change and make 00:00:31.210 --> 00:00:34.189 a difference. Our task today is to get all of 00:00:34.189 --> 00:00:38.579 us to net zero. My guest today is Jenna Hegarty 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:41.740 and Jenna is a highly experienced policy advocate 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:43.920 with more than 15 years of experience in the 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:46.619 third sector. She is here today to talk to us 00:00:46.619 --> 00:00:48.979 about her work with the Nature Friendly Farming 00:00:48.979 --> 00:00:51.719 Network. Jenna has been interested in farming 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:54.280 for quite some time. In fact, her master's thesis 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:57.000 written in the early 2000s and spotlighting the 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:00.479 ability of agri -environment schemes to tackle 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.520 biodiversity loss resulted in a lifelong passion 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:06.400 to nature -friendly and climate -smart farming, 00:01:06.819 --> 00:01:08.780 as well as a professional drive to ensure that 00:01:08.780 --> 00:01:11.500 farmers are robustly supported on their nature 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:14.409 -friendly farming journeys. The Nature Friendly 00:01:14.409 --> 00:01:16.450 Farming Network is a membership organisation 00:01:16.450 --> 00:01:19.469 led by farmers working alongside other organisations 00:01:19.469 --> 00:01:22.230 and public supporters. The network aims to provide 00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:25.129 a platform or voice for sustainable food and 00:01:25.129 --> 00:01:28.189 farming in the UK. Before joining the network, 00:01:28.469 --> 00:01:31.730 Jenna worked at the RSPB, starting out as an 00:01:31.730 --> 00:01:34.230 Agriculture Policy Officer, progressing to Deputy 00:01:34.230 --> 00:01:37.310 Director for Advocacy. Prior to the RSPB, Jenna 00:01:37.310 --> 00:01:40.040 worked for Natural England, covering the new 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:42.760 forest. Today, Jenna works to support farmers 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:45.700 towards nature -friendly farming. The organization, 00:01:45.700 --> 00:01:47.819 as I say, gives a voice to the experiences of 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:50.500 farmers who are leading the way, sharing knowledge 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:53.379 that empowers those in transition to produce 00:01:53.379 --> 00:01:56.659 plentiful food. So, welcome to Jenna today. Thank 00:01:56.659 --> 00:01:59.519 you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thank 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:02.640 you. So, Jenna, can we start a little bit by 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.540 talking about your career and where your interest 00:02:05.540 --> 00:02:08.900 in the environment and farming begins? It's probably 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:11.219 not an exaggeration to say I was a bit of an, 00:02:11.460 --> 00:02:15.639 well, an accidental environmentalist. I grew 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.860 up in very urban South Yorkshire, not from a 00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:21.620 farming background, at least probably not, you 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:23.099 know, certainly not this century or the last 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:27.039 century. And the countryside was a place that 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:28.960 you visited when you went on holiday. And it 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:32.939 wasn't really, certainly for my family, it wasn't 00:02:32.939 --> 00:02:35.639 a place that you actively went and sought out 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.259 kind of at weekends or anything like that. So 00:02:38.259 --> 00:02:43.939 I was a late adopter. It wasn't until my mid 00:02:43.939 --> 00:02:48.120 -twenties that I would categorize myself as becoming 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:52.500 an environmentalist. And it was that kind of 00:02:52.500 --> 00:02:56.080 quite comedically indirect route when you go 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:58.860 to uni and you start studying one thing and then 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:01.759 quirks happen and accidents happen and you suddenly 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:04.879 discover a whole other world and that then becomes 00:03:05.210 --> 00:03:08.469 the world that you're interested in. And yeah, 00:03:08.569 --> 00:03:12.229 I went to uni to initially start studying French, 00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:15.030 but you couldn't do it on its own. You had to 00:03:15.030 --> 00:03:18.050 pick something else. So I picked politics because 00:03:18.050 --> 00:03:20.729 it meant that I could sleep in longer on a particular 00:03:20.729 --> 00:03:23.110 day. It's ridiculous, but this is how it happened. 00:03:24.490 --> 00:03:28.030 And through the politics side of things, I then 00:03:28.030 --> 00:03:30.849 basically got very interested in European politics. 00:03:31.129 --> 00:03:33.409 And obviously we were still in the EU then as 00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:39.930 the UK. and was fascinated by just how much our 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:44.229 land in this country is influenced by the policy 00:03:44.229 --> 00:03:46.110 frameworks around it. And obviously at that point, 00:03:46.449 --> 00:03:51.830 they largely derived from Europe. And yeah, as 00:03:51.830 --> 00:03:55.409 part of that, farming is the biggest land use 00:03:55.409 --> 00:03:57.870 in this country and indeed in most countries. 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:01.710 the impacts that it has, which can be very negative, 00:04:01.789 --> 00:04:04.409 but also very, very positive. The natural environment 00:04:04.409 --> 00:04:09.370 just grabbed me and it hasn't really let go since, 00:04:09.370 --> 00:04:12.409 to be honest. Moving on to climate change, which 00:04:12.409 --> 00:04:14.189 is, I would argue, the most pressing issue of 00:04:14.189 --> 00:04:17.730 our time. It's certainly not a distant threat. 00:04:18.189 --> 00:04:20.269 We're seeing hotter temperatures and more severe 00:04:20.269 --> 00:04:24.250 weather extremes and drought, poverty, et cetera. 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:28.139 How are farmers in the UK able to make a difference? 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.660 Because farming is a big contributor to our climate 00:04:31.660 --> 00:04:33.959 issue, isn't it? I mean, greenhouse agriculture 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:36.000 contributes to climate change through the release 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.459 of various greenhouse gases, whether it's methane, 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.920 nitrous oxide, carbon dioxide, et cetera. So 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:46.240 how are farmers? What part of the farmers have 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:51.389 to make? Farming is the fourth largest industry 00:04:51.389 --> 00:04:55.810 in terms of its greenhouse gas emissions, and 00:04:55.810 --> 00:04:58.449 it's projected in the not too distant future 00:04:58.449 --> 00:05:01.290 to be the second largest, mainly because other 00:05:01.290 --> 00:05:04.329 industries are decarbonizing much more rapidly. 00:05:06.470 --> 00:05:11.430 We can't forget that farming as a land -based 00:05:11.430 --> 00:05:14.129 industry is literally on the front line of climate 00:05:14.129 --> 00:05:18.579 change. nobody will have missed the horrendous 00:05:18.579 --> 00:05:22.740 images of fields literally underwater last winter. 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:25.279 And that is, it's climate change, it's climate 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:27.639 change happening, more and more extreme weather 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:32.120 events, more wet winters, drier, hotter summers, 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:35.680 and that all has massive implications for farming 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.360 and what we can grow and produce in the country. 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:48.040 a really unique position to be at the vanguard 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.160 of solutions to this. And obviously we've got 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.160 to accept that a significant amount of climate 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:57.220 change is essentially locked in, but it's not 00:05:57.220 --> 00:06:00.439 hopeless. And farming has an incredibly important 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.860 role to play both in mitigation, so reducing 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:07.600 greenhouse gas emissions, but also adapting to 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:12.379 a changing climate. and you know if we don't 00:06:12.379 --> 00:06:14.620 do that and I think it's really important to 00:06:14.620 --> 00:06:17.600 just reiterate how serious this is. I mean the 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.079 the UK government's own food security reports 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:23.660 emphasize that you know that the twin climate 00:06:23.660 --> 00:06:27.199 and nature crisis is is the biggest long -term 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:28.879 medium to long -term threat to food production 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.920 in the country and and that is replicable across 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.500 across the globe. So this isn't um you know kind 00:06:35.500 --> 00:06:37.560 of oh yeah that's a problem but we don't need 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:39.860 to worry about it. It's a problem that will that 00:06:39.860 --> 00:06:42.339 is already impacting our ability to grow food. 00:06:42.420 --> 00:06:46.660 I mean, the wet winter last year, well, so the 00:06:46.660 --> 00:06:50.819 kind of 23, 24 winter, that massively impacted 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:55.100 the ability to establish and then harvest crops. 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:58.819 So it's not some dim and distant future. You 00:06:58.819 --> 00:07:01.319 know, climate change is happening now. So we 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:04.279 need to respond to that now. And it's about taking 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.040 essentially nature -based mitigation and adaptation 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:13.220 responses. So it's absolutely about hardwiring 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:16.259 our climate response with nature at its core 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:19.000 because nature is probably the most important 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:22.740 partner to farming that you can get, not least 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:25.220 because it can do a lot of stuff that we currently 00:07:25.220 --> 00:07:30.759 pay for, as in buy in. for free and what business 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.040 doesn't want to secure more for nothing and boost 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:37.480 its profitability. Okay. So that adaptation that 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:40.899 you talk about, can you explain how government 00:07:40.899 --> 00:07:44.379 policies can play a role in helping our farmers 00:07:44.379 --> 00:07:47.480 in the UK make those adaptations for climate 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.379 change? And is it just about financial support? 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:53.019 Because in your work at the Nature -Friendly 00:07:53.019 --> 00:07:55.560 Farming Network, do you see a lot of farmers 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:58.970 engaging in that conversation as well? Yeah, 00:07:59.170 --> 00:08:01.790 definitely. Farming, like any other industry, 00:08:02.009 --> 00:08:04.149 is quite a broad church. You have lots and lots 00:08:04.149 --> 00:08:07.089 of views and opinions within that, but fortunately 00:08:07.089 --> 00:08:10.470 the consensus is, as the science supports, that 00:08:10.470 --> 00:08:12.810 climate change and nature loss is here and now 00:08:12.810 --> 00:08:16.149 and we absolutely need to respond to it. And 00:08:16.149 --> 00:08:20.870 let's also not forget that the reason why farming 00:08:20.870 --> 00:08:24.759 is is at the heart or kind of at the root of 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:27.259 many of the issues that we're facing is because 00:08:27.259 --> 00:08:31.860 of misguided policy signals and incentives that 00:08:31.860 --> 00:08:36.000 have come in recent decades, particularly after 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.320 the Second World War. That's when a lot of the 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:42.700 problems really started in terms of perverse 00:08:42.700 --> 00:08:46.120 policy incentives, let's say, that drove a very 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:49.320 kind of productivist approach to land management, 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:52.899 so get as much off the land as possible, including 00:08:52.899 --> 00:08:55.980 putting as much into the land to get those high 00:08:55.980 --> 00:09:00.679 yields out. caused a lot of unintended consequences. 00:09:02.059 --> 00:09:03.759 So again, farmers like any other industry, they 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.799 follow the signals that they are provided. And 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:08.879 we have to accept societally that government 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.740 signals for a long time were not the right ones. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:15.200 And that's hurt farming as much as it's hurt 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:19.580 anything else. So I suppose there are two main 00:09:19.580 --> 00:09:22.100 ways that government policy is really, really 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:25.539 important for tackling climate change and adapting 00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:28.549 to it. Bluntly, you're talking about incentives, 00:09:28.809 --> 00:09:32.370 so payments for doing good stuff, but the flip 00:09:32.370 --> 00:09:36.169 side of that is regulation too. Regulation is 00:09:36.169 --> 00:09:39.870 really important. It creates a solid foundation 00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:43.750 for incentives to pay on top of. It's really 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:48.110 important just to ensure a do -no -harm approach 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:51.149 to land management. Indeed, you can keep nudging 00:09:51.149 --> 00:09:55.970 that regulatory baseline up. Not many people 00:09:55.970 --> 00:09:58.409 are like massive funds for kind of, you know, 00:09:58.710 --> 00:10:01.950 the law telling them to do X, Y and Z, but it's 00:10:01.950 --> 00:10:04.389 important. It's there for a reason. So having 00:10:04.389 --> 00:10:08.289 a really solid regulatory foundation is important, 00:10:08.909 --> 00:10:12.110 but incentive payments are absolutely part of 00:10:12.110 --> 00:10:15.070 that. And it's really important to recognise 00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:18.830 these as payments for services produced by farming. 00:10:19.950 --> 00:10:23.330 but they're environmental services and the plastic 00:10:23.330 --> 00:10:27.549 market has not geared up to pay for restoration, 00:10:28.009 --> 00:10:32.509 not particularly well anyway. So government support 00:10:32.509 --> 00:10:34.370 is absolutely vital because it's essentially 00:10:34.370 --> 00:10:36.629 addressing a market failure to reward farmers 00:10:36.629 --> 00:10:39.450 for the provision of... Is that where your role 00:10:39.450 --> 00:10:43.529 comes in day to day? You're working on those 00:10:43.529 --> 00:10:48.220 issues? Yes. I mean, put simply, my job is all 00:10:48.220 --> 00:10:52.519 about trying to create the pressure for and demand 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:56.080 for more nature -friendly farming across the 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.679 UK. And policy is absolutely imperative for that. 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:02.340 But it's also not just government policy. So 00:11:02.340 --> 00:11:04.980 private policy by businesses is also really, 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.340 really important. It's not all about the public 00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:13.299 purse, taxpayers. kind of painful absolutely 00:11:13.299 --> 00:11:16.500 needs to be produced. The private sector has 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:20.100 as equal if not more more of a responsibility. 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.539 And we all have that responsibility though don't 00:11:22.539 --> 00:11:25.360 we because we are consumers and agriculture is 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.340 essential for feeding us and we know our population 00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:31.600 is going to be reaching what nine billion ten 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.860 billion by 2050. I mean our population is growing 00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:39.039 so we need to get this right don't we and do 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:42.649 you think that all of us are prepared to change 00:11:42.649 --> 00:11:45.710 our habits and in terms of our diet, because 00:11:45.710 --> 00:11:48.190 that's all going to impact when you start. I 00:11:48.190 --> 00:11:49.669 mean, you can do certain things with government, 00:11:49.889 --> 00:11:52.169 certain things with policy, but there's everything 00:11:52.169 --> 00:11:55.950 else too, isn't there? Yeah. And what we eat 00:11:55.950 --> 00:12:02.330 and what we view as desirable to eat, that's 00:12:02.330 --> 00:12:06.129 influenced by a huge range of factors. And our 00:12:06.129 --> 00:12:08.750 diets today are very different than they were 00:12:08.750 --> 00:12:14.149 30 years ago, 60 years ago. And we've got very 00:12:14.149 --> 00:12:17.389 used to having everything that we could possibly 00:12:17.389 --> 00:12:21.570 want and need whenever we want it. And that situation 00:12:21.570 --> 00:12:24.330 has been created by a variety of things, but 00:12:24.330 --> 00:12:28.110 including the supply chain and big food businesses. 00:12:30.669 --> 00:12:35.110 boiling it down so it's a real simplicity. We 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:38.509 know that it's not good for us. Our current diet, 00:12:39.409 --> 00:12:43.850 societally, is causing loads of health -related 00:12:43.850 --> 00:12:49.929 problems. It's also very climate -intensive. 00:12:50.529 --> 00:12:53.509 It can create all sorts of localized pollution 00:12:53.509 --> 00:12:55.629 issues as well, if you think about intensive 00:12:55.629 --> 00:12:58.090 pig and poultry units right next to rivers, for 00:12:58.090 --> 00:13:00.850 example. So I don't think it's a question of, 00:13:00.850 --> 00:13:03.789 you know, is change necessary? It is absolutely 00:13:03.789 --> 00:13:07.730 necessary, but I do think diets can and often 00:13:07.730 --> 00:13:11.789 are weaponized as a subject by certain interests, 00:13:11.889 --> 00:13:15.210 and any suggested change to people's diets is 00:13:15.210 --> 00:13:18.090 seen as almost like an infringement of personal, 00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:20.850 you know, rights, and it's ridiculous. I mean, 00:13:20.990 --> 00:13:26.120 if we look at the the the climate change uh you 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.019 know committees advice around dietary shifts 00:13:29.019 --> 00:13:32.279 or indeed you know kind of not just them it you 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.840 know it's something in the order of a few sausages 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.720 left on average per week you know so it's it's 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.240 not like you know and everybody's got to go vegan 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.980 and start wearing hair shirts and uh and you 00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:45.980 can only walk anywhere it's It really isn't. 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:51.379 So a lot of us have got the wrong diet, but we've 00:13:51.379 --> 00:13:53.080 certainly got this population growth. So we're 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:54.879 going to have to create more food. It's just 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:57.159 finding a way then of making this environmentally 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.259 friendly. Because as you say, it's not just you 00:14:00.259 --> 00:14:02.659 can't just hit us over the head and tell us we've 00:14:02.659 --> 00:14:04.200 all got the wrong diet. There's a lot of food 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.960 waste as well. And I was reading some figure 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.980 from I think the UN about, and it shocked me 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:11.879 actually, about a third of all food grown in 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.610 the world is wasted. That's a third. and apparently 00:14:16.610 --> 00:14:20.629 about 13 % between harvest and retail stages 00:14:20.629 --> 00:14:25.149 and about 17 % in households and in the food 00:14:25.149 --> 00:14:27.820 service and retail sectors of waste. So there's 00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:30.360 a lot there's a lot else going on in that whole 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.960 area. And in terms of technology, we've got it's 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:36.860 quite an exciting time. I mean, I go and visit 00:14:36.860 --> 00:14:38.720 a lot of sites as part of the work that we're 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.919 doing with public sector decarbonisation scheme 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.840 and decarbonisation projects. And I see a lot 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.000 of new technology that's forever changing. So 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.120 I think that's probably there's a light there, 00:14:49.179 --> 00:14:51.779 isn't there as well in the technology that is 00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:55.419 becoming more prevalent, really, and fast moving. 00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:00.360 Yeah, I think Tech's an interesting one and I 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.700 think, you know, tech can be used for good and 00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:06.580 tech can be used for bad, you know, and I think 00:15:06.580 --> 00:15:11.059 in terms of food and farming, it's about making 00:15:11.059 --> 00:15:15.419 sure that we are working with the tech with a 00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:18.500 clear kind of destination in mind and that we're 00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:20.600 clear about the kinds of farming and land management 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:23.399 that we want to see because even you've got some 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:28.120 brilliant tech and innovation out there which 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.620 is geared towards really precision application 00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:37.460 of farm inputs. So for conventional farming systems 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:41.539 that do use, well it doesn't even need to be 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.080 nitrogen fertiliser, it could be livestock manures, 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:48.200 but tech that helps farmers really understand 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.480 what their soils need at any given point in the 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.779 growing cycle and only applying that. That's 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:58.460 a really great bit of kit because overall it 00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:02.100 helps reduce in applications of unnecessary inputs 00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:04.799 which if they're unnecessary the soil won't take 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.799 it out but it'll end up in water courses and 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.480 then it'll create problems further down the line. 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:14.460 We just have to keep an eye on tech because it 00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:17.100 can be used for illers as well as good and if 00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:22.120 you're essentially propping up a fundamentally 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:26.220 unsustainable system of production, but you're 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:29.179 just making it less bad through the use of tech, 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.159 then it's still fundamentally unsustainable. 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.679 So it's about the right tech to tackle the problems 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:39.039 that we have. Yes. So it's a fast subject, isn't 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:42.279 it, when you talk about biodiversity and... soil 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.559 erosion and then there's the coastal leaks and 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.039 coastal water pollution if you like. Can I ask, 00:16:49.419 --> 00:16:53.179 so day -to -day you're busy influencing in policy, 00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:56.860 in terms of your own passion for the environment, 00:16:57.700 --> 00:17:00.059 how has that seeped into your own lifestyle? 00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:02.779 Have you made lifestyle changes? Are you looking 00:17:02.779 --> 00:17:10.299 at the way you use our natural resources? I think 00:17:10.299 --> 00:17:13.940 for me, like most people, things are a bit of 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:17.039 a journey and you do things at different points 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.559 in your life for different reasons. But I think 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:24.940 the one consistent thing, again, going back to 00:17:24.940 --> 00:17:29.380 me being a late bloomer as an environmentalist, 00:17:29.859 --> 00:17:32.180 but that connection to the natural environment 00:17:32.180 --> 00:17:37.690 is... profound and I think just gets deeper as 00:17:37.690 --> 00:17:41.349 I get older and it's about remembering and keeping 00:17:41.349 --> 00:17:44.869 that true to my purpose about well why do I do 00:17:44.869 --> 00:17:48.089 what I do you know whether that's choosing the 00:17:48.089 --> 00:17:50.349 food that me and my family eat including what 00:17:50.349 --> 00:17:53.990 we choose to grow at home right through to the 00:17:53.990 --> 00:17:56.809 type of job I do and you know it's no accident 00:17:56.809 --> 00:17:59.900 that I work in a not for -profit industry, that 00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:02.619 it's about trying to secure positive change at 00:18:02.619 --> 00:18:05.579 scale that is fair to people, fair to the environment. 00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:11.940 Like many people who are conscious of how they 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:17.700 live and what they do, I try not to fly. I eat 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:22.309 an entirely plant -based diet. kids and my partner 00:18:22.309 --> 00:18:24.970 don't but when we do buy meat it's good meat 00:18:24.970 --> 00:18:26.890 it's meat that's you know kind of been reared 00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:29.890 in a you know in ethical ways that is giving 00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:31.769 as much back to the environment as it's taking. 00:18:33.089 --> 00:18:34.809 So yeah I think it's just it's been it's been 00:18:34.809 --> 00:18:36.950 mindful and it's also just remembering at the 00:18:36.950 --> 00:18:39.170 end of the day we are not separate from nature 00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:41.970 we are part of nature and you know we forget 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:45.210 that at our peril. Yes exactly and I mean that's 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:49.049 all part of as I say it's ingrained in your whole 00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:52.210 principles and the values that are important 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:54.750 to you and it's something that we all want to 00:18:54.750 --> 00:18:57.410 do and we know we should probably be doing more. 00:18:57.710 --> 00:18:59.730 It's making it accessible, isn't it? I mean, 00:18:59.730 --> 00:19:01.789 in terms of farming, it's certainly challenging 00:19:01.789 --> 00:19:05.410 times in the UK for the farming industry and 00:19:05.410 --> 00:19:09.089 indeed across the world. May I ask, Jenna, what 00:19:09.089 --> 00:19:12.289 next for you? You've been influential in the 00:19:12.289 --> 00:19:15.269 policy sector. You're certainly making a difference 00:19:15.269 --> 00:19:17.690 in the way people lead their lives through that 00:19:17.690 --> 00:19:19.940 farming network. and you're obviously clearly 00:19:19.940 --> 00:19:22.380 passionate and you have that mission, you're 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:27.380 driven. What next for you? Well, I've been at 00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:29.339 the Nature -Friendly Farming Network for less 00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:32.319 than a year, so I hope I'll be around here professionally 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:37.079 for a wee while longer yet. I suppose, you know, 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.579 as a policy professional, I mean, I've worked 00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:44.880 in policy for years, but it's definitely become 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.180 a much more holistic approach over those years. 00:19:48.309 --> 00:19:51.430 And kind of fairly early on, I didn't realize 00:19:51.430 --> 00:19:56.569 that having the best, most compelling facts and 00:19:56.569 --> 00:20:01.869 figures and being right wasn't enough. You have 00:20:01.869 --> 00:20:05.390 to communicate in a way that essentially kind 00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:09.049 of remembers our human history as storytellers. 00:20:09.049 --> 00:20:12.609 And if we can't package up the very important 00:20:12.609 --> 00:20:14.589 facts and figures around climate change, around 00:20:14.589 --> 00:20:18.359 nature loss and the solutions to them, in ways 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.279 that different audiences will not just accept 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.200 but will grab and run with then we'll kind of 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.359 be doomed to just kind of bang our heads against 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.359 a brick wall and whether you're thinking about 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.980 farmers as an audience or decision makers in 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.259 government or you know the general public just 00:20:36.259 --> 00:20:39.119 realizing where people are and communicating 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.529 to them effectively is is probably in a very 00:20:43.529 --> 00:20:46.450 broad sense where I'm most interested to take 00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:48.869 my career next because it's about connecting 00:20:48.869 --> 00:20:53.930 with people and working together to get to a 00:20:53.930 --> 00:20:56.029 better place. And that's a very good point because 00:20:56.029 --> 00:20:58.210 that is the challenge, isn't it? The storytelling. 00:20:59.190 --> 00:21:01.869 We need the facts. We need the statistics. We 00:21:01.869 --> 00:21:04.210 need the science. We need all of that. We know 00:21:04.210 --> 00:21:08.130 that our planet is warming. We're facing this 00:21:08.130 --> 00:21:10.990 warming. We know we are in a climate emergency. 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.079 But it's how does it make people feel? And I 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.799 think that's the danger that there's too much 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.000 kind of catastrophizing, if you like, if you 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.819 see it on the news, which we do see on the news 00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.500 every day. And I remember those photographs of 00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:28.180 the country being flooded, of those areas. And 00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:31.000 in fact, at the time last winter, I was certainly 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.019 driving through a lot of that water and got stuck 00:21:33.019 --> 00:21:35.700 in various areas, couldn't get to where I wanted 00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:38.579 to be because of roads closed, et cetera. But 00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:42.839 it's making people Feel it, isn't it? That's 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.839 the art, isn't it? It's making it real. And it's 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:47.559 not just something you're seeing that happens 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.700 to other people. Actually, this is something 00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:53.160 that has an impact on all of us and certainly 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.660 to future generations. And we want to make it 00:21:55.660 --> 00:21:59.140 better. So that storytelling is really interesting 00:21:59.140 --> 00:22:02.539 that you've come back to that. Thank you very 00:22:02.539 --> 00:22:06.119 much to Jenna. There can be no doubt that climate 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:08.160 change is the biggest challenge of our time. 00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:10.759 Today we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.640 to slow global warming. Today we must act for 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:15.700 tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current 00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:18.220 and future impacts of climate change. Today, 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:20.700 we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:23.640 on our climate commitments. Today, we must work 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.380 for tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:28.740 to our podcast channels and please tell us what 00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:32.180 you think. Please email us at podcast at salixfinance 00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:35.740 .co .uk. But I'd like to say a big thank you 00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:38.380 to our guest today and that's Jenna Hegarty. 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.539 Thank you very much for sharing your time and 00:22:41.539 --> 00:22:44.279 for sharing your story. And let's hope we can 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:46.640 talk again as well. Thank you, Jenna. Thank you. 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.500 You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:53.839 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.180 about our work and to find more content, please 00:22:57.180 --> 00:23:01.779 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.