WEBVTT 00:00:06.869 --> 00:00:10.849 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.849 --> 00:00:14.070 from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate 00:00:14.070 --> 00:00:16.570 Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to 00:00:16.570 --> 00:00:19.170 the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker 00:00:19.170 --> 00:00:21.170 and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:23.710 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:23.710 --> 00:00:25.769 are talking about. And through that passion, 00:00:26.030 --> 00:00:28.350 I believe you take people with you and create 00:00:28.350 --> 00:00:31.410 action using your influence to make change and 00:00:31.410 --> 00:00:34.710 make a difference. Our task today is to get all 00:00:34.710 --> 00:00:39.429 of us to net zero. My guest today is Graham Duxbury, 00:00:39.590 --> 00:00:43.530 OBE, and Graham is going to talk to us about 00:00:43.530 --> 00:00:47.909 his work at Groundwork. He has served as Groundwork's 00:00:47.909 --> 00:00:51.409 Chief Executive since 2014, having held the position 00:00:51.409 --> 00:00:54.189 of Director of Development and focused on policy 00:00:54.189 --> 00:00:56.509 and communications for the previous 16 years. 00:00:56.929 --> 00:00:59.250 During this time, his areas of focus have included 00:00:59.250 --> 00:01:02.399 the improvement of neglected spaces, helping 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:05.939 households out of fuel poverty, education, energy 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:08.819 efficiency, the green economy and environmental 00:01:08.819 --> 00:01:12.180 regeneration. He has more than 25 years experience 00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:15.120 of helping public and voluntary sector organisations 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.959 reach new audiences and deliver strategic communications 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.200 and development campaigns. Graham was awarded 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.500 an OBE for services to communities and to the 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:29.150 environment in 2020. Graham has also recently 00:01:29.150 --> 00:01:32.870 joined the UK 100 board, the UK's only cross 00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:35.989 -party network dedicated to supporting ambitious 00:01:35.989 --> 00:01:38.510 local government leaders committed to tackling 00:01:38.510 --> 00:01:42.269 the climate crisis. Members of the UK 100 network 00:01:42.269 --> 00:01:45.609 have all pledged to meet their ambitious climate 00:01:45.609 --> 00:01:49.189 targets ahead of the government's 2050 goal. 00:01:49.750 --> 00:01:52.829 Graham is quoted as saying, when we think about 00:01:52.829 --> 00:01:55.670 tackling the climate crisis, we too often default. 00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:58.620 either to global agreements or individual actions. 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:02.040 This overlooks the power and potential of collective 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:05.260 action in local areas where councils, communities 00:02:05.260 --> 00:02:08.979 co -design solutions that promote both sustainability 00:02:08.979 --> 00:02:13.259 and equity. So thank you very much. I'm delighted 00:02:13.259 --> 00:02:16.180 to have Graham and it's a huge privilege. Welcome, 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:18.500 Graham. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:21.840 Graham, can we start by talking a little bit 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.580 about your career and background? Because you've 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:27.960 talked early on about wanting a job with purpose. 00:02:28.300 --> 00:02:32.120 I think that's something that you have said over 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:34.500 a number of times in a few interviews. You wanted 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:36.919 a job with purpose and you've moved around a 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.680 bit. You've done volunteering, you've done communications, 00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:42.740 you've been a press officer, but you've always 00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:45.219 had a great passion for the environment. How 00:02:45.219 --> 00:02:48.099 did you get to where you are today? That's a 00:02:48.099 --> 00:02:50.060 very good question, and none of it was planned. 00:02:51.139 --> 00:02:54.080 So quite a circuitous route brought me to where 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.180 I am today. I think it probably goes back to 00:02:56.180 --> 00:02:58.699 the fact that, you know, when you're a teenager 00:02:58.699 --> 00:03:00.419 or a young person thinking about what you want 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:02.840 to do, you start with your own natural aptitudes, 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.199 don't you? And I felt I was good with kind of 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:10.439 words and pictures and so on, and dallyed with 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:13.340 advertising at one point, but fairly quickly 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:16.469 realized that spending your life selling people 00:03:16.469 --> 00:03:19.189 things I don't really want or need was not going 00:03:19.189 --> 00:03:22.729 to be fulfilling. So then you think about, well, 00:03:22.729 --> 00:03:25.770 how can I apply those skills and aptitudes to 00:03:25.770 --> 00:03:28.009 something that is a little bit more meaningful, 00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:30.050 is a little bit more fulfilling and does have 00:03:30.050 --> 00:03:33.129 that purpose? It took me a little while to find 00:03:33.129 --> 00:03:35.650 my way into the right place and the right sector, 00:03:35.770 --> 00:03:39.509 but an early spell whilst I was an unemployed 00:03:39.509 --> 00:03:41.830 graduate, actually volunteering with the British 00:03:41.830 --> 00:03:44.069 Trust for Conservation Volunteers, now known 00:03:44.069 --> 00:03:47.569 as TCV. was quite instrumental in that. It kind 00:03:47.569 --> 00:03:50.889 of got me fired up and it made me realize, I 00:03:50.889 --> 00:03:55.330 think, that you could do something practical 00:03:55.330 --> 00:03:58.789 about the environment on your own doorstep. I 00:03:58.789 --> 00:04:00.889 think that was one of the challenges for me early 00:04:00.889 --> 00:04:02.750 on thinking about a career step. If you thought 00:04:02.750 --> 00:04:05.210 about environmental charities at the time in 00:04:05.210 --> 00:04:08.590 the mid to late 1980s, there was some very big 00:04:08.590 --> 00:04:11.849 issues going on, you know, from acid rain to 00:04:11.849 --> 00:04:13.909 ice caps melting and polar bears and so on and 00:04:13.909 --> 00:04:17.699 so forth. rainforests but it all felt really 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:20.199 distant and it all felt quite difficult to do 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.439 something about so when I started to realize 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:27.259 that you know in this country and in the northern 00:04:27.259 --> 00:04:29.879 mill town that I was growing up in there were 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:32.660 environmental campaigns and activists on my doorstep 00:04:32.660 --> 00:04:36.740 that was quite a light bulb moment and made me 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:39.279 switch on to the idea of you know being able 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.709 to make a difference not just to the environmental 00:04:42.709 --> 00:04:44.689 issues that I was passionate about, but also 00:04:44.689 --> 00:04:48.069 to the lives of people like me and living in 00:04:48.069 --> 00:04:50.970 my place. Because if you address those environmental 00:04:50.970 --> 00:04:53.829 issues, you are also helping people stay well 00:04:53.829 --> 00:04:56.569 and healthy, and you're also helping people think 00:04:56.569 --> 00:04:58.829 differently about the place in which they were 00:04:58.829 --> 00:05:04.069 living. That was a really kind of big motivator. 00:05:04.350 --> 00:05:06.430 So anyway, through that route, I jumped around 00:05:06.430 --> 00:05:09.069 a bit, as you said, and did one or two different 00:05:09.069 --> 00:05:10.569 things, found my way into the voluntary sector. 00:05:11.529 --> 00:05:14.850 and found my way to groundwork, which is where 00:05:14.850 --> 00:05:17.670 I've been ever since, working my way through 00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:21.250 the ranks and getting to the point of having 00:05:21.250 --> 00:05:24.649 the privilege of being the chief exec. So we're 00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:26.990 talking today about the huge challenges we're 00:05:26.990 --> 00:05:29.910 facing on climate change and groundwork, and 00:05:29.910 --> 00:05:31.889 I want you to explain exactly what groundwork 00:05:31.889 --> 00:05:34.810 is and does, but it seems to me it's all about 00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:38.050 collaboration and the environment and you call 00:05:38.050 --> 00:05:41.610 it also dynamic partnerships. Can you explain 00:05:41.610 --> 00:05:44.170 what groundwork is, please, in simple terms for 00:05:44.170 --> 00:05:47.209 me and for our listeners? But also, can you explain 00:05:47.209 --> 00:05:49.269 the joined approach for businesses, governments 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:53.370 and local authorities and charities and the communities? 00:05:54.769 --> 00:05:58.529 I can do my best on all of those. So what groundwork 00:05:58.529 --> 00:06:02.470 is, is a network of charities. There are actually 00:06:02.470 --> 00:06:07.069 15 groundwork organisations in the UK. I run 00:06:07.069 --> 00:06:09.410 the one that's got UK on the end of its name. 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:11.939 denoting the fact that we do some stuff at a 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:14.720 national level on behalf of and in support of 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.139 the other 14 groundwork organisations who are 00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:19.779 all based in a different part of the UK. So there's 00:06:19.779 --> 00:06:21.540 a groundwork London, there's a groundwork Northern 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:23.220 Ireland, there's a groundwork Greater Manchester 00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:26.600 and they're the organisations who are working 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:29.959 in and with communities delivering a real spread 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:33.860 of practical activities linked to where people 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:37.040 live, their homes and their local environment. 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.660 the skills and the prospects of people in those 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:41.800 places and in particular thinking about how to 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.060 support people into the green economy. And then 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:47.319 there's lots of work about people's behaviors 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:49.819 and our own approach, our individual approach 00:06:49.819 --> 00:06:52.279 to sustainability. So we do lots of stuff around 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:54.459 helping people with their energy bills, their 00:06:54.459 --> 00:06:57.180 water bills, but also thinking about waste and 00:06:57.180 --> 00:06:59.759 recycling and local food growing and sustainable 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:02.819 travel. So there's a really kind of diverse and 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:05.920 rich mix of project activity going on right across 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.329 that network of 15 organizations and my job in 00:07:09.329 --> 00:07:11.550 the middle is to try and somehow make sense of 00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:15.410 it all and talk to other people about what's 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:18.410 going on and to build at a national level the 00:07:18.410 --> 00:07:20.910 partnerships that we need and the funding that 00:07:20.910 --> 00:07:23.430 we need in order to keep some of that work going. 00:07:24.089 --> 00:07:28.160 So you talked about partnership and Partnership 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.519 really is in our DNA as an organization. So we 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:35.980 were formed originally in 1981 out of a melting 00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:38.779 pot of ideas. So there were some people at that 00:07:38.779 --> 00:07:41.459 point that were thinking about the future of 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:44.420 communities that were impacted by deindustrialization. 00:07:44.899 --> 00:07:49.240 So the decline of heavy industry and how that 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.180 was leaving communities kind of with job losses, 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:54.680 with a lack of... what you might call social 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:58.319 infrastructure, but also surrounded by dereliction 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:02.279 and urban decay and blackened landscapes due 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:05.319 to the closure of the coal mine and so on. But 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.120 that was mixing at the time with the first stirrings 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.720 of consciousness about things like global warming. 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.519 So, you know, people in the 70s and early 80s 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.399 starting to understand what climate change really 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.160 was and was all about. And so it was that kind 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.709 of that mixture of influences. that led to the 00:08:23.709 --> 00:08:26.050 experiment that groundwork was originally which 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:28.910 was about can you put professional skill sets 00:08:28.910 --> 00:08:31.810 at the disposal of local communities to support 00:08:31.810 --> 00:08:34.429 them to take action on the things that they can 00:08:34.429 --> 00:08:36.889 see and feel around them that will make a difference 00:08:36.889 --> 00:08:38.889 to their quality of life starting with a local 00:08:38.889 --> 00:08:42.190 environment so began with some very simple kind 00:08:42.190 --> 00:08:45.110 of practical projects, engaging people in picking 00:08:45.110 --> 00:08:47.409 up litter or cleaning out canals and rivers and 00:08:47.409 --> 00:08:51.110 so on and so forth, but then slowly grew in scale 00:08:51.110 --> 00:08:55.889 and sophistication to this complex array of local 00:08:55.889 --> 00:08:58.110 environmental initiatives. But partnership is 00:08:58.110 --> 00:09:01.250 absolutely central to that because we recognize, 00:09:01.850 --> 00:09:05.169 yeah, however big we become, we can't solve all 00:09:05.169 --> 00:09:07.610 of these problems for people. It takes a whole 00:09:07.610 --> 00:09:10.659 array of interests. to get involved in that. 00:09:10.700 --> 00:09:13.440 So it really is the modus operandi of our organisation. 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.559 So it's that pride and commitment to people's 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:19.120 communities that is so powerful, isn't it? And 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.779 unlocking that. And just going back to that collaboration, 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:24.419 because it's something I feel very strongly about 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:28.419 as well. I come from a former journalist and 00:09:28.419 --> 00:09:30.820 I've worked on campaigns all my life for the 00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:36.120 last 30 years. And I kind of grew to understand 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.480 that the power really does lie with the community, 00:09:39.539 --> 00:09:43.220 whether it's identifying an issue. So in my case, 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.360 it was whether it was saving a local hospital, 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:48.960 saved a few of those, believe it or not, police 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.320 stations, schools, or right through things that 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.419 really matter to people. As you say, you've mentioned 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:57.559 clearing up people's parks, but it's not just 00:09:57.559 --> 00:10:01.970 one organization coming in on that. it's having 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:04.470 the local MP in on it, it's having the local 00:10:04.470 --> 00:10:06.929 businesses in on it, it's having the key stakeholders, 00:10:07.129 --> 00:10:11.809 the head teacher, the doctors, the nurses, having 00:10:11.809 --> 00:10:15.710 that grand collaboration, which is so powerful, 00:10:16.129 --> 00:10:19.370 getting people to talk. And I think with climate 00:10:19.370 --> 00:10:23.590 change, But it's not in the distant future, is 00:10:23.590 --> 00:10:25.629 it? This is not a threat. Climate change, we 00:10:25.629 --> 00:10:28.269 see it on the news every day. It's a clear and 00:10:28.269 --> 00:10:30.950 present danger, isn't it? Climate change. And 00:10:30.950 --> 00:10:34.309 we have to get presumably all of those stakeholders 00:10:34.309 --> 00:10:36.750 talking about it. Do you think we're doing enough? 00:10:38.289 --> 00:10:41.370 I don't think we're doing enough. And I don't 00:10:41.370 --> 00:10:43.149 always think we're doing it in the right way 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:46.970 either. So I wouldn't disagree with you at all 00:10:46.970 --> 00:10:51.759 that this is one of the biggest issues impacting 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:54.539 on communities and on our quality of life. And 00:10:54.539 --> 00:10:57.879 that's just going to ramp up as climate impacts 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:01.440 become more obvious. And I think we're all aware 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:06.679 also that climate change impacts first and worst 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:09.399 on those people in society who have least, who 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:12.620 have least choice, protection, least power. We've 00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:16.779 seen that on a global stage for decades and it's 00:11:16.779 --> 00:11:20.019 becoming evident. in the UK when you have significant 00:11:20.019 --> 00:11:22.519 climate impacts, whether that's, you know, extreme 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.580 heat or flooding or air pollution, you know, 00:11:26.740 --> 00:11:28.759 whatever it is, those people that are going to 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.639 suffer the most are generally those people who 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.320 are worst off. And also, by the way, probably 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.080 contribute least to the problem in the first 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.059 place. This is a clear kind of injustice and 00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:42.100 inequity built in here and baked into the system. 00:11:43.539 --> 00:11:46.580 The way to address that, I think, we found through 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:50.220 our work over the last 40 years is A, not to 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:53.559 hack to people to do something different and 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:56.580 B, to make sure we understand where people are 00:11:56.580 --> 00:11:59.899 starting from in terms of their own experience, 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.299 their own lives, the issues that they're trying 00:12:02.299 --> 00:12:07.019 to face. It's often said, but quite often forgotten 00:12:07.019 --> 00:12:09.700 that there's no point lecturing someone about 00:12:09.700 --> 00:12:12.279 climate change when they're struggling to put 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:15.710 food on the table. or when they've not been in 00:12:15.710 --> 00:12:18.970 work for a long time or they've got a chronic 00:12:18.970 --> 00:12:21.230 health condition or they're worried about kind 00:12:21.230 --> 00:12:24.830 of knife crime on the estate. That's not a conversation 00:12:24.830 --> 00:12:27.529 that's going to go anywhere. So all of our experience 00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:29.230 is that you have to start with where people are. 00:12:29.289 --> 00:12:31.090 You have to think about the issues that they're 00:12:31.090 --> 00:12:33.529 facing in their everyday life and you have to 00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:35.990 help people go on that kind of journey of exploration 00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:40.080 and on that journey of discovery. kind of wagging 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.379 a finger at the outset and saying we're all leading 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:44.440 unsustainable lifestyles and you must stop shopping 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:46.200 there and you must stop eating that, you must 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:50.419 stop flying there, that's not going to galvanize 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:54.019 that level of support. So our philosophy is help 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:55.899 people think about what they want to change here 00:12:55.899 --> 00:12:59.370 and now in their lives. And so many of those 00:12:59.370 --> 00:13:02.389 things actually start a conversation about the 00:13:02.389 --> 00:13:05.789 environment. Sometimes that's about the environment 00:13:05.789 --> 00:13:09.669 that you can see and feel and touch in your neighborhood. 00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:12.389 For some people that might be about the quality 00:13:12.389 --> 00:13:14.070 of the air that they're breathing. For other 00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:16.649 people it might be their energy bill and how 00:13:16.649 --> 00:13:18.529 to reduce that because if they reduce their energy 00:13:18.529 --> 00:13:20.500 bill they... also probably going to be saving 00:13:20.500 --> 00:13:23.320 carbon along the way. So all of those things 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:27.620 can spark a conversation and catalyze action 00:13:27.620 --> 00:13:30.480 that will ultimately, if we can aggregate it 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.799 and if we can link that with the top -down stuff 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:35.159 that does need to happen in terms of international 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:38.379 agreements and regulation and government actions, 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.080 that's the only way we're going to get that kind 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.779 of groundswell and a mass movement. And I think 00:13:44.779 --> 00:13:47.159 one of the things that strikes me at the moment 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.789 is one of the One of the most obvious ways in 00:13:50.789 --> 00:13:53.610 is about protecting ourselves from the impacts. 00:13:54.549 --> 00:13:56.929 So I think people are starting to realize that, 00:13:57.049 --> 00:13:59.190 as you say, it is a clear and present danger. 00:13:59.389 --> 00:14:03.470 There are kind of dangerous impacts of climate 00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:08.529 change becoming evident. And that's a good conversation 00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:10.950 starter in a community. How is this community 00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:12.990 going to change? How should we protect ourselves? 00:14:13.129 --> 00:14:15.750 So there's some remedial work that you need to 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:19.830 do to understand how you change a place in order 00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:22.210 to make it more resilient but that again feeds 00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:24.909 into a conversation well how do you go upstream 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:27.269 from that and how do you stop these impacts from 00:14:27.269 --> 00:14:30.429 getting worse? And of course that you mentioned 00:14:30.429 --> 00:14:34.610 government action and obviously that's part of 00:14:34.610 --> 00:14:37.929 creating a I suppose you're creating an ecosystem 00:14:37.929 --> 00:14:43.070 there of change and in terms of policy and action 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:46.799 on behalf of government as well. which obviously 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.399 has to come with the legitimate, you know, local 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:53.139 people on board as well. How much do you think 00:14:53.139 --> 00:14:56.179 we've gone through a pandemic, we've got a lot, 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:57.820 you know, government's got a lot on its hands, 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:01.000 you know, we've got wars going on, we're still 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.340 recovering from the pandemic, which I'd like 00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:06.740 to talk, and I want to ask you a question exactly 00:15:06.740 --> 00:15:09.720 about your role and the impact of the pandemic, 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:14.220 which is... We saw during the pandemic unequal 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.740 access to many of the natural benefits that you 00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:20.639 would expect from our natural world, didn't we? 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:23.659 What's your view on that? Where have you taken 00:15:23.659 --> 00:15:25.419 that? Because I know it's something you've commented 00:15:25.419 --> 00:15:28.460 on. You've commented on the benefits gained from 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:30.620 the outdoors, gained from the natural outdoors. 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:33.100 And you talk about protecting, you also talk 00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:36.139 about protecting spaces. I think it's neglected 00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:39.080 spaces. So is there a connection between that 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.059 and where have you taken that work since the 00:15:41.059 --> 00:15:44.500 pandemic? Well, yes. So I think this has been 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:47.179 a thread really through Graham's work for more 00:15:47.179 --> 00:15:51.000 than 40 years. It's about recognising that... 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:55.389 The physical fabric of the environment surrounding 00:15:55.389 --> 00:15:58.350 us that we experience most is the kind of open 00:15:58.350 --> 00:16:01.129 spaces, the parks, the green spaces, the patch 00:16:01.129 --> 00:16:04.070 of grass at the end of the road, the community 00:16:04.070 --> 00:16:07.409 garden, all that kind of stuff. That's most people's 00:16:07.409 --> 00:16:10.990 experience of the natural environment. And if 00:16:10.990 --> 00:16:12.889 you look at all the stats that people like Natural 00:16:12.889 --> 00:16:14.909 England do, you know, I think something like 00:16:14.909 --> 00:16:18.470 80 % of the visits that the population goes on 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.750 to the natural environment occurs in those kind 00:16:20.750 --> 00:16:23.389 of neighbourhood urban areas, as opposed to people 00:16:23.389 --> 00:16:25.730 going further afield into the countryside or 00:16:25.730 --> 00:16:28.350 to the coastline or whatever it is. So those 00:16:28.350 --> 00:16:31.429 places are absolutely important, fundamentally 00:16:31.429 --> 00:16:35.110 important to our connection. with nature and 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:38.269 our connection with the environment. I'm a really 00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:42.070 big fan of someone called Dr. William Bird, who's 00:16:42.070 --> 00:16:46.570 a GP but also a real champion of nature, who 00:16:46.570 --> 00:16:50.950 talks about RNA biophilia as a species. So this 00:16:50.950 --> 00:16:54.940 idea that humans have this kind of innate connection 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:56.940 with the natural world that is a fundamental 00:16:56.940 --> 00:16:59.620 driver of our well -being and if we feel disconnected 00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:02.059 from the natural world then we feel stress and 00:17:02.059 --> 00:17:03.980 we have a heightened sense of anxiety and that 00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:05.900 impacts on the way we we deal with everything 00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:09.700 else and I can absolutely identify with that 00:17:09.700 --> 00:17:13.259 and and it does mean that therefore there is 00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:15.599 this kind of social gradient again this this 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:20.109 inequity in the both distribution of that kind 00:17:20.109 --> 00:17:22.890 of well -being benefit. Not everybody has access 00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:25.150 to high quality green space close to where they 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:27.430 live. And if you live in a densely packed urban 00:17:27.430 --> 00:17:30.750 area, then you're going to have less of it than 00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:34.549 other people. But even if it is there, some people 00:17:34.549 --> 00:17:37.349 in society feel less able to interact with it. 00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:40.470 So again, the statistics about who does visit. 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.579 green spaces in their neighbourhood demonstrates 00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:47.700 that if you've got a health condition or you're 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:50.759 disabled or you're from a minority ethnic background 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:55.660 or you're from a low -income background or you're 00:17:55.660 --> 00:17:58.740 a young woman, then you're less likely to be 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.680 in those spaces and therefore less likely to 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.200 feel that kind of wellbeing benefit that was 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.150 so critical. to everybody's ability to deal with 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:07.950 something like the pandemic because you know 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:10.009 that was the one thing that brought lots of people 00:18:10.009 --> 00:18:12.190 together you know the ability to go and walk 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.990 out of doors and and be in nature and feel that 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:17.630 that kind of restorative effect that you get 00:18:17.630 --> 00:18:21.289 from nature and and it's it's it's a scandal 00:18:21.289 --> 00:18:23.730 really that you know large parts of the population 00:18:23.730 --> 00:18:26.309 aren't able to enjoy that freely aren't able 00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:29.450 to enjoy that as much as others so that work 00:18:29.450 --> 00:18:31.650 that we've always done about making sure that 00:18:31.849 --> 00:18:34.109 green infrastructure, blue infrastructure if 00:18:34.109 --> 00:18:37.549 you count kind of rivers and coastlines are accessible 00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:40.809 to people but also that we help people overcome 00:18:40.809 --> 00:18:43.490 the other barriers that they have be they social 00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:46.869 or cultural or quality related barriers so that 00:18:46.869 --> 00:18:49.230 they can feel that benefit as much as everybody 00:18:49.230 --> 00:18:52.009 else and get that kind of sense of well -being 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:53.990 that's such an important thread of our work. 00:18:54.589 --> 00:18:57.109 Exactly that equal access and considering everybody 00:18:57.109 --> 00:19:00.559 from in whichever position they're in. So can 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.940 we just talk for a moment more deeply about the 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:05.400 community? We talk a lot about community. My 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:09.319 experience of community, I suppose from a working 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:11.839 perspective, is very much bringing people together 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:14.019 all of the time, people who might be on polar 00:19:14.019 --> 00:19:17.299 opposites in many other times. For me, whether 00:19:17.299 --> 00:19:20.480 it's politicians, council leaders, hospital chief 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.000 executives, and they might have different views 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.359 in other areas, but there's something that unites 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.319 them. As I say, in my case, it might have been 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.559 a closure of an A &E department or potential 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:34.259 closure of an A &E department or a mental health 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:37.200 service or a police station. But actually, there 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.519 is one thing that brings those people together, 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.779 which is that cause and that need for a service 00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:47.220 that is considered valuable to that community. 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:54.940 But what does community mean in today's UK? If 00:19:54.940 --> 00:19:56.920 you could put your finger on it, what does it 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.160 mean and what are the strengths of that? Yeah, 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:01.819 and I don't think I can put my finger on it. 00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:03.339 It's such an interesting word, isn't it? And 00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:07.180 we use it so often. and we use it without really 00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:09.460 thinking you know what what precisely do we mean 00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:12.420 by this and because as you say we're all in multiple 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:16.099 communities these days you know communities around 00:20:16.099 --> 00:20:18.220 where we live but communities of interest and 00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:22.339 online communities and you know and so it's so 00:20:22.339 --> 00:20:26.599 it's a it's a real kind of you know jumble and 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:28.859 a mixture of all sorts of interests that we have 00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:31.059 you know what what what brings us into contact 00:20:31.059 --> 00:20:34.380 with other people i think What I'm interested 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:36.940 in, and again what a lot of our work as an organisation 00:20:36.940 --> 00:20:41.559 has been around, is that community of place which 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.519 I still think is fundamentally important. indeed 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.319 probably more important as we live more of our 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.660 lives online and therefore interacting in different 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:54.660 ways online and we tend to interact online with 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:57.339 people who are a little bit more like us. We 00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:00.000 gravitate to spaces where we feel kind of comfortable 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.240 and accepted and everybody understands each other 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.000 straight away but in those communities of place 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.599 we are genuinely and generally quite mixed. And 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.900 we bump into people who are not like us, who 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.460 have got different value sets, who have got different 00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:18.200 backgrounds and different stories. But what brings 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:21.900 us together is our shared experience of the place 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:25.539 that we're in. And again, the environment within 00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:28.839 that place. is one of those kind of great levelers. 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.700 So we all experience that environment in our 00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:36.299 own ways, but it's the place where a lot of this 00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:39.119 stuff, a lot of this interaction can happen and 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:42.579 what brings us all together. So again, going 00:21:42.579 --> 00:21:45.380 back to the pandemic, one of the things I thought 00:21:45.380 --> 00:21:49.380 was really interesting is that those are the 00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:52.559 places where we met. You have to stand quite 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.500 a few feet apart and shout at each other through 00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:56.619 the wind and rain. But effectively, you wander 00:21:56.619 --> 00:21:58.400 off to the local park and that's where you had 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:01.339 your social interaction. And even when you think 00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:04.619 about town centres these days, which we always 00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:09.460 complain have been decimated by the rise of online 00:22:09.460 --> 00:22:13.299 shopping. quite a lot of time. We still wander 00:22:13.299 --> 00:22:15.700 into the town centre because we want to be in 00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:17.799 a shared space with people. I mean it may be 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:19.660 that all we do now in the town centre is go for 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:22.099 coffee in one of the many coffee chains that 00:22:22.099 --> 00:22:24.400 are there. We do less of our shopping in the 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.000 town centre but we gravitate there because we 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.200 want to be around people and we want to be in 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:32.259 that shared space. So there is something I think 00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:35.619 about wanting to connect with the people around 00:22:35.619 --> 00:22:38.599 us in a neighbourhood, in an area, in a place. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.500 potentially is a platform for some really powerful 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:45.660 stuff about setting norms and understanding difference 00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:48.740 and building cohesion and working together on 00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:52.119 a project that unites us all. And again, you 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.599 know, the physical fabric of the environment 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:57.539 and the natural environment within that which 00:22:57.539 --> 00:23:01.319 we feel such a connection to is a real opportunity. 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:03.680 You know, it's a platform for doing great things, 00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:06.220 I think. And tell me a little bit about those 00:23:06.220 --> 00:23:08.160 great things that you're doing at the moment 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.279 in terms of connecting and raising awareness 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.720 of those people who have the least being impacted 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.660 the most. What are you working on at this moment? 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.619 So there's a few things which are really current 00:23:20.619 --> 00:23:24.259 in our organization and some of these are emanations 00:23:24.259 --> 00:23:27.009 of stuff we've been doing. for decades or more. 00:23:27.730 --> 00:23:30.569 So still that focus on how do you connect people 00:23:30.569 --> 00:23:33.529 with nature on their doorstep is a massive thing 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:36.369 for us. But an interesting way in which that's 00:23:36.369 --> 00:23:39.650 playing out at the moment is through the support 00:23:39.650 --> 00:23:41.910 and management of what might be called green 00:23:41.910 --> 00:23:45.309 community hubs. So these are places where... 00:23:45.369 --> 00:23:48.230 people come along and visit either an open space 00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:49.890 or an open space that's got a building in it 00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:52.529 and maybe a little cafe, something like that. 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:55.410 So something, a draw in a neighborhood that pulls 00:23:55.410 --> 00:23:58.450 people in. And you can either come along and 00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:00.650 socialize and have a cup of tea with your neighbors 00:24:00.650 --> 00:24:02.690 or you can get stuck in as a volunteer. You can 00:24:02.690 --> 00:24:04.490 do some of the gardening or fruit growing or 00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:07.750 whatever it is. But what we're noticing more 00:24:07.750 --> 00:24:09.990 and more is that when you have a place like that, 00:24:10.329 --> 00:24:12.890 actually people are starting to use those venues 00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:15.740 for lots of other stuff. So we've got some examples 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:18.880 of those community hubs which are being used 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.720 by health visitors to give out health promotion 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.160 advice. We're using them to support people with 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:27.799 workshops about their energy bills, their energy 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.319 efficiency. So they're just a place where you 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:36.099 can co -locate. services. They can act as a kind 00:24:36.099 --> 00:24:37.940 of stimulus for people to volunteer their time 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:39.700 and do something worthwhile in their local area. 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:42.900 We don't call them our volunteers. They're not 00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:45.259 groundwork volunteers. They're people working 00:24:45.259 --> 00:24:48.119 in their community in a voluntary capacity to 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.799 make that place better and to enable their residents, 00:24:51.099 --> 00:24:54.140 their neighbors and other residents to enjoy 00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:56.940 that space and get some benefit out of them for 00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:59.619 their own purpose. So that's a really interesting 00:24:59.619 --> 00:25:03.430 area of work that's growing. And another area 00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:05.269 which I think again has always been a thread 00:25:05.269 --> 00:25:08.309 of our activity but is coming to the fore is 00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:11.109 thinking about people who are currently not able 00:25:11.109 --> 00:25:14.119 to work out of the labour market. disadvantaged 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:17.720 in multiple ways, sometimes with health issues 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:20.619 or disability issues or an offending background 00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:23.299 or whatever it is, people that haven't necessarily 00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:26.200 done as well academically as they might. And 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.319 we see the numbers of young people not in employment, 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.240 education and training topping a million again. 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:36.589 So it always kind of goes up and down but it's 00:25:36.589 --> 00:25:39.069 on the up at the moment and that's a cause for 00:25:39.069 --> 00:25:41.589 concern because the longer a young person spends 00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:44.410 out of education or out of work, the less likely 00:25:44.410 --> 00:25:50.490 they are to fulfill their potential later on 00:25:50.490 --> 00:25:52.789 in life. So we've always had strands of work 00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:55.630 which is about helping people get skills and 00:25:55.630 --> 00:26:00.319 think about jobs in the environment. Just at 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.359 the moment, if you think about the need to decarbonize 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.440 the economy and to make sure we've got a kind 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:10.420 of nature rich economic underpinning and all 00:26:10.420 --> 00:26:12.380 of those industries that need to grow in order 00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:14.700 to do that are crying out for skills. There's 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:16.940 a massive skill shortage in things like sustainable 00:26:16.940 --> 00:26:20.160 construction or in waste in the circular economy 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.089 or in energy and retrofit. or in land management, 00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:28.589 nature recovery, and we've got a rising tide 00:26:28.589 --> 00:26:31.329 of kind of young people who are out of work. 00:26:31.369 --> 00:26:33.589 We need to do something to address those twin 00:26:33.589 --> 00:26:36.410 issues. The green energy and the green sector, 00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:38.710 it's a challenging place to be, but it's certainly 00:26:38.710 --> 00:26:41.349 an exciting place as well with a lot of potential, 00:26:41.369 --> 00:26:44.170 isn't it, for careers and jobs of the future 00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:47.589 and re -skilling people as well in that area. 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.740 In terms of our own lifestyle habits, we've seen 00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:55.059 climate change. We're being told that we've got 00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:58.900 to change our diets. We're being told that let's 00:26:58.900 --> 00:27:01.099 look at the energy, how we consume energy on 00:27:01.099 --> 00:27:05.019 our own homes, how we buy, whether it's retail. 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:09.099 What do you think the public's appetite is for 00:27:09.099 --> 00:27:12.460 key lifestyle changes? Do you think, Graham, 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.880 you're in the... You've worked for so long in 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.420 the charity sector, but do you think people think, 00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:21.180 oh, it's someone else's problem. Government will 00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:23.759 just sort this out. Eventually it will become 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:26.640 legislation and it will become law. This isn't 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.980 something that is because you've actually a few 00:27:29.980 --> 00:27:33.079 moments ago talked about economic hardships. 00:27:33.500 --> 00:27:35.500 People have got a lot on their plate at the moment, 00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:38.460 but do you think it's something that people care 00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:41.160 enough about? What's the appetite for change? 00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:45.859 I do think people care. And I think people right 00:27:45.859 --> 00:27:48.460 across society care, and I think people of all 00:27:48.460 --> 00:27:51.460 ages and all backgrounds care. I think our biggest 00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:54.460 challenge is it's so easy to be overwhelmed by 00:27:54.460 --> 00:27:58.119 the scale of the problem that that leads to a 00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:00.220 degree of inertia. You know, where do you start? 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:03.339 What do you do? How am I ever going to make a 00:28:03.339 --> 00:28:06.079 difference, you know, to these big challenging 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:08.440 stories I read on the news. And we know for some 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.299 people that tips over from kind of feeling overwhelmed 00:28:11.299 --> 00:28:14.299 into anxiety, you know, genuine kind of mental 00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:16.900 health issues around, you know, worry about the 00:28:16.900 --> 00:28:21.859 future and so on. The antidote to that I've always 00:28:21.859 --> 00:28:26.279 felt is making sure people have agency to do 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:31.400 something, to make some kind of change. And that's 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:35.339 also why I think this, you know, working in and 00:28:35.339 --> 00:28:37.880 with a community to make that change is even 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:40.380 more important because if you can do it in conjunction 00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:43.980 with others around you, that adds to that sense 00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:46.920 of agency and you've got some power and there 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.460 is potential to make a difference. I think, as 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:52.720 you said in your introduction, you know, the 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.400 discourse around climate change is either the 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.829 government's just got to sort it out. What are 00:28:57.829 --> 00:28:59.210 they waiting for? They need to do something. 00:28:59.289 --> 00:29:00.890 And we know it's going to be painful. So, you 00:29:00.890 --> 00:29:03.049 know, just get on with it at some point. We'll 00:29:03.049 --> 00:29:06.869 take our medicine. But the only other thing that 00:29:06.869 --> 00:29:08.450 we get talked about is why you've got to change 00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:10.970 your lifestyle and not eat meat three times a 00:29:10.970 --> 00:29:14.049 week. So it defaults to those kind of individual 00:29:14.049 --> 00:29:16.630 sacrifices that you're supposed to make. And 00:29:16.630 --> 00:29:20.339 it really misses. the kind of power and potential 00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:22.980 of coming together with other people to make 00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:27.240 a genuine and sometimes quite transformative 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:29.839 change in our own local areas. And that's what 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.660 I think we need to be focusing on more. It gives 00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:35.660 people a sense of power that they can achieve 00:29:35.660 --> 00:29:38.220 something. But it also plays on the fact that 00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:41.059 if everybody's doing it in a space, then it must 00:29:41.059 --> 00:29:44.460 be normal. And it resets our sense of what those 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:47.400 norms are. Um, so I've always felt that, you 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.779 know, rather than go around knocking on individual 00:29:49.779 --> 00:29:51.779 doors saying, can we put solar panels on your 00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.839 roof? Um, you know, that should be a, well, the 00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:58.220 vans are parked up in, you know, these five streets 00:29:58.220 --> 00:30:00.619 for the next six weeks and everybody's already 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:02.519 done, you know, it's just normal, isn't it? That's, 00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.039 that's what goes on around here. Um, and that's 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:06.259 the sense that we've got to get to, I think, 00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:08.059 because instinctively, I feel that everybody. 00:30:08.430 --> 00:30:11.289 the vast majority of people want to make the 00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:15.509 changes that are being talked about or they see 00:30:15.509 --> 00:30:19.809 the positive potential of those changes. Life 00:30:19.809 --> 00:30:23.069 will be better if we get there and at the moment. 00:30:23.539 --> 00:30:25.319 you know, we can only see things going in the 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:28.119 wrong direction. So we've somehow got to intervene 00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:31.319 in that and create the conditions for that collective 00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:32.900 action. There's a lot of change, isn't there? 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:35.319 And just the way we see, we talked about the 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:37.880 outdoors and the way we see our landscape, you 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:39.519 know, we go to the countryside and we like to 00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:41.940 see cows in the field, but actually they're not 00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:43.779 great. It's not great to have a lot of cows in 00:30:43.779 --> 00:30:46.680 the field. It's just the way we perceive and 00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:50.720 our vision, isn't it? And accepting that everything 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:55.369 is... open and up for change. And while we're 00:30:55.369 --> 00:30:57.690 talking about change and people's appetite, and 00:30:57.690 --> 00:30:59.410 you've obviously got this huge passion for the 00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:02.109 environment, you've always had it. How has that 00:31:02.109 --> 00:31:05.450 impacted your own lifestyle? And how important 00:31:05.450 --> 00:31:09.349 is your community to you? And is it do you live 00:31:09.349 --> 00:31:12.150 this sustainable lifestyle that everybody talks 00:31:12.150 --> 00:31:15.390 about? I can answer that one. Absolutely. No, 00:31:15.509 --> 00:31:18.109 no, I don't. I don't. I don't live it in that 00:31:18.109 --> 00:31:20.930 way, because like everybody else, I'm kind of 00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:26.180 compromised. by my modern living. For me, it 00:31:26.180 --> 00:31:29.079 is really important. That connection with nature 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:31.740 that I talked about earlier that William Byrd 00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.259 is such a champion of, I absolutely feel that. 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:38.220 It makes me feel better and I feel worse if I 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.660 don't have that connection with nature on a regular 00:31:40.660 --> 00:31:44.259 basis. Now I'm lucky. I know I'm lucky. I've 00:31:44.259 --> 00:31:48.380 got a garden that's outside my house and I live 00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:50.440 on the edge of a town so I can get into the countryside 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:54.039 quite easily from where I am on the foot or on 00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:58.380 a bike. And I'd feel bereft if I weren't able 00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:01.380 to do those things. But I know that that's a 00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:03.000 privileged position to be in and lots of people 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:07.119 aren't as fortunate as that, which is why I'm 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.619 such an advocate of addressing the kind of social 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:14.480 injustice. that there is at the heart of our 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:18.480 environmental dilemma. And I also need to feel 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.440 part of my neighborhood. It gives me a real sense 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:27.440 of comfort. I feel I belong to a place and I 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.680 know people around here. So it's very intangible 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:35.019 stuff, but it's something that is felt quite 00:32:35.019 --> 00:32:38.359 deeply within us all, I think. and not everybody 00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:41.220 has the ability to express it or enjoy it or 00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:44.279 feel the benefit of it. But as I said, like many 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.839 other people, the choices are not always straightforward. 00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:51.900 I don't have a car, I don't drive, I don't eat 00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:55.750 meat, but I've got kids and there's... you know, 00:32:55.910 --> 00:32:58.049 charges left, right and centre, drawing on the 00:32:58.049 --> 00:33:01.289 power supply and there's a flight off on holiday 00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:04.950 every now and again. So, you know, we mustn't 00:33:04.950 --> 00:33:06.569 beat ourselves up about all of these things and 00:33:06.569 --> 00:33:08.450 we mustn't beat up other people about all of 00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:10.509 these things and we mustn't be judgmental. We 00:33:10.509 --> 00:33:14.170 need to find the ways to make the right choices 00:33:14.170 --> 00:33:17.279 easier. And we need to give people the support 00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.880 and the power to get on and make the changes 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.619 that they want to make. I mean, that's very refreshing 00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:25.000 to hear because you are like most of us and I 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:26.859 can identify with most of what you've just said 00:33:26.859 --> 00:33:30.079 about the position that we're in. But what you've 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.240 done is you've used that privilege of being able 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.660 to enjoy, as you say, the outdoors. I'm also 00:33:34.660 --> 00:33:36.839 very lucky. I have wonderful parks. I'm lucky 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:39.079 enough to have a garden. But you've used that 00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:41.400 privilege to make a difference to other people's 00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.579 lives. And I think that is... That is the golden 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.500 nugget, really. And that's the wonder of it, 00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.119 about everything that you've done has driven 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:55.539 you for over so many years. OK, I'm going to 00:33:55.539 --> 00:33:57.700 ask this question. I do ask it of our podcast 00:33:57.700 --> 00:34:02.579 guests. Are you an optimist or pessimist? It 00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:03.920 depends on the day of the week and what's in 00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:08.719 the news. So what I am optimistic about actually 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:11.719 is really optimistic. about is we do a lot of 00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.460 work with young people in our organisation. And 00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:16.400 tomorrow, in fact, I'm going to be in the office 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:19.059 meeting our new intake of our Youth Advisory 00:34:19.059 --> 00:34:23.800 Board. And having met them online, they're just 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.119 such a fantastically energetic, inspirational 00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:31.380 bunch of people. So what I'm really optimistic 00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:33.820 about is that there's a generation coming through 00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:38.539 the ranks. that understands some of this stuff, 00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:41.460 absolutely understands it, absolutely feels it. 00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:45.539 It isn't the generation that you see typified 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:51.219 on some TV screens, but is a generation of genuinely 00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:57.239 passionate and compassionate people who are really 00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:59.300 imbued with sense of purpose about getting this 00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:03.099 right. So after tomorrow, after I've been with 00:35:03.099 --> 00:35:05.500 our youth advisory board for a day, I'll be on 00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:08.780 one of my optimistic moments. Okay, so you'll 00:35:08.780 --> 00:35:14.019 gain inspiration from them, but obviously they'll 00:35:14.019 --> 00:35:16.420 gain a huge amount of inspiration from you because 00:35:16.420 --> 00:35:19.840 presumably that you can see yourself as you were 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.280 once at that point when you were volunteering. 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.039 To a degree, although the other bit of optimism 00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.199 I have is that some of the young people we engage 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:31.969 with these days are darn sight more. It was full 00:35:31.969 --> 00:35:34.769 of go -ahead than I ever was at that age. So, 00:35:34.849 --> 00:35:38.130 I'm hugely impressed. Okay. So, that was then 00:35:38.130 --> 00:35:41.869 and now's now. So, this is where you are today. 00:35:42.210 --> 00:35:44.949 What next for you? Obviously, you've been highly 00:35:44.949 --> 00:35:47.309 successful. You're highly influential. You've 00:35:47.309 --> 00:35:50.090 joined the UK 100 board. I'm not sure if you 00:35:50.090 --> 00:35:51.869 could explain what that means. That would be 00:35:51.869 --> 00:35:54.750 great for you. But what next for you in your 00:35:54.750 --> 00:35:58.059 career? Well, I think I said at the outset in 00:35:58.059 --> 00:36:00.099 the introduction, I'm not a planner. I've arrived 00:36:00.099 --> 00:36:02.780 here somewhat by accident and I'm still not a 00:36:02.780 --> 00:36:05.300 planner, so I don't have a great game plan. So 00:36:05.300 --> 00:36:08.820 I'll give you the... the classic football manager's 00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:10.739 response that we'll take each game as it comes 00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:13.960 and we'll see what happens. I'm really delighted 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.179 to be part of the UK 100 set up at Must Amit 00:36:16.179 --> 00:36:18.980 because that is an organisation that's bringing 00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:23.440 together and lifting up the voices of local government 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.099 leaders who are committed to this agenda. And 00:36:26.099 --> 00:36:27.679 for all the reasons that we've just been talking 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.340 about in the last half an hour, I feel local 00:36:30.340 --> 00:36:33.460 government is absolutely integral to our ability 00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:35.820 to deal with these issues due to their ability 00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.550 to connect with their communities, their ability 00:36:38.550 --> 00:36:41.730 to make things happen. And the fact that local 00:36:41.730 --> 00:36:43.349 government is so under the cosh at the moment 00:36:43.349 --> 00:36:46.250 for various reasons is one of the reasons why 00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:51.250 I wanted to join in on that debate and give my 00:36:51.250 --> 00:36:56.690 support in whatever way I can. So yeah, if I've 00:36:56.690 --> 00:36:58.969 got any ambitions left in terms of my career, 00:36:59.250 --> 00:37:03.269 it is genuinely to see others. coming through 00:37:03.269 --> 00:37:06.349 and ready to lead the charge and pick up the 00:37:06.349 --> 00:37:10.030 baton. That's what's driving me now. How do we 00:37:10.030 --> 00:37:14.409 support the next group of leaders? Fantastic. 00:37:14.570 --> 00:37:16.730 So it's bringing those voices together and then 00:37:16.730 --> 00:37:19.730 being generous with supporting the next generation, 00:37:19.730 --> 00:37:23.369 if you like, of leaders and seeing that power 00:37:23.369 --> 00:37:26.119 at grassroots level. is so important. I think 00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:28.699 that's where power ultimately comes from personally, 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:31.739 is at grassroots level. Thank you very much to 00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:34.199 Graham. There can be no doubt that climate change 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:36.460 is the biggest challenge of our time. Today, 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:38.760 we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:41.280 global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow, 00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.519 adjusting our lifestyles to current and future 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:46.409 impacts of climate change. Today we must use 00:37:46.409 --> 00:37:49.409 our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate 00:37:49.409 --> 00:37:52.190 commitments. Today we work for tomorrow's world. 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.389 Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast channels. 00:37:55.730 --> 00:37:59.130 Please tell us what you think. Email us at podcast 00:37:59.130 --> 00:38:03.769 at salixfinance .co .uk. Huge thank you to Graham 00:38:03.769 --> 00:38:07.610 for sharing your life with us today, but also 00:38:07.610 --> 00:38:10.449 all that amazing experience. So thank you very 00:38:10.449 --> 00:38:12.929 much to Graham Duxbury. It's a pleasure. Thank 00:38:12.929 --> 00:38:16.559 you very much. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:20.900 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:38:20.900 --> 00:38:24.239 about our work and to find more content, please 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.820 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.