This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast
from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate
Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to
the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker
and I believe that the best way to communicate
a message is by being passionate about what you
are talking about. And through that passion,
I believe you take people with you and create
action using your influence to make change and
make a difference. Our task today is to get all
of us to net zero. My guest today is Graham Duxbury,
OBE, and Graham is going to talk to us about
his work at Groundwork. He has served as Groundwork's
Chief Executive since 2014, having held the position
of Director of Development and focused on policy
and communications for the previous 16 years.
During this time, his areas of focus have included
the improvement of neglected spaces, helping
households out of fuel poverty, education, energy
efficiency, the green economy and environmental
regeneration. He has more than 25 years experience
of helping public and voluntary sector organisations
reach new audiences and deliver strategic communications
and development campaigns. Graham was awarded
an OBE for services to communities and to the
environment in 2020. Graham has also recently
joined the UK 100 board, the UK's only cross
-party network dedicated to supporting ambitious
local government leaders committed to tackling
the climate crisis. Members of the UK 100 network
have all pledged to meet their ambitious climate
targets ahead of the government's 2050 goal.
Graham is quoted as saying, when we think about
tackling the climate crisis, we too often default.
either to global agreements or individual actions.
This overlooks the power and potential of collective
action in local areas where councils, communities
co -design solutions that promote both sustainability
and equity. So thank you very much. I'm delighted
to have Graham and it's a huge privilege. Welcome,
Graham. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
Graham, can we start by talking a little bit
about your career and background? Because you've
talked early on about wanting a job with purpose.
I think that's something that you have said over
a number of times in a few interviews. You wanted
a job with purpose and you've moved around a
bit. You've done volunteering, you've done communications,
you've been a press officer, but you've always
had a great passion for the environment. How
did you get to where you are today? That's a
very good question, and none of it was planned.
So quite a circuitous route brought me to where
I am today. I think it probably goes back to
the fact that, you know, when you're a teenager
or a young person thinking about what you want
to do, you start with your own natural aptitudes,
don't you? And I felt I was good with kind of
words and pictures and so on, and dallyed with
advertising at one point, but fairly quickly
realized that spending your life selling people
things I don't really want or need was not going
to be fulfilling. So then you think about, well,
how can I apply those skills and aptitudes to
something that is a little bit more meaningful,
is a little bit more fulfilling and does have
that purpose? It took me a little while to find
my way into the right place and the right sector,
but an early spell whilst I was an unemployed
graduate, actually volunteering with the British
Trust for Conservation Volunteers, now known
as TCV. was quite instrumental in that. It kind
of got me fired up and it made me realize, I
think, that you could do something practical
about the environment on your own doorstep. I
think that was one of the challenges for me early
on thinking about a career step. If you thought
about environmental charities at the time in
the mid to late 1980s, there was some very big
issues going on, you know, from acid rain to
ice caps melting and polar bears and so on and
so forth. rainforests but it all felt really
distant and it all felt quite difficult to do
something about so when I started to realize
that you know in this country and in the northern
mill town that I was growing up in there were
environmental campaigns and activists on my doorstep
that was quite a light bulb moment and made me
switch on to the idea of you know being able
to make a difference not just to the environmental
issues that I was passionate about, but also
to the lives of people like me and living in
my place. Because if you address those environmental
issues, you are also helping people stay well
and healthy, and you're also helping people think
differently about the place in which they were
living. That was a really kind of big motivator.
So anyway, through that route, I jumped around
a bit, as you said, and did one or two different
things, found my way into the voluntary sector.
and found my way to groundwork, which is where
I've been ever since, working my way through
the ranks and getting to the point of having
the privilege of being the chief exec. So we're
talking today about the huge challenges we're
facing on climate change and groundwork, and
I want you to explain exactly what groundwork
is and does, but it seems to me it's all about
collaboration and the environment and you call
it also dynamic partnerships. Can you explain
what groundwork is, please, in simple terms for
me and for our listeners? But also, can you explain
the joined approach for businesses, governments
and local authorities and charities and the communities?
I can do my best on all of those. So what groundwork
is, is a network of charities. There are actually
15 groundwork organisations in the UK. I run
the one that's got UK on the end of its name.
denoting the fact that we do some stuff at a
national level on behalf of and in support of
the other 14 groundwork organisations who are
all based in a different part of the UK. So there's
a groundwork London, there's a groundwork Northern
Ireland, there's a groundwork Greater Manchester
and they're the organisations who are working
in and with communities delivering a real spread
of practical activities linked to where people
live, their homes and their local environment.
the skills and the prospects of people in those
places and in particular thinking about how to
support people into the green economy. And then
there's lots of work about people's behaviors
and our own approach, our individual approach
to sustainability. So we do lots of stuff around
helping people with their energy bills, their
water bills, but also thinking about waste and
recycling and local food growing and sustainable
travel. So there's a really kind of diverse and
rich mix of project activity going on right across
that network of 15 organizations and my job in
the middle is to try and somehow make sense of
it all and talk to other people about what's
going on and to build at a national level the
partnerships that we need and the funding that
we need in order to keep some of that work going.
So you talked about partnership and Partnership
really is in our DNA as an organization. So we
were formed originally in 1981 out of a melting
pot of ideas. So there were some people at that
point that were thinking about the future of
communities that were impacted by deindustrialization.
So the decline of heavy industry and how that
was leaving communities kind of with job losses,
with a lack of... what you might call social
infrastructure, but also surrounded by dereliction
and urban decay and blackened landscapes due
to the closure of the coal mine and so on. But
that was mixing at the time with the first stirrings
of consciousness about things like global warming.
So, you know, people in the 70s and early 80s
starting to understand what climate change really
was and was all about. And so it was that kind
of that mixture of influences. that led to the
experiment that groundwork was originally which
was about can you put professional skill sets
at the disposal of local communities to support
them to take action on the things that they can
see and feel around them that will make a difference
to their quality of life starting with a local
environment so began with some very simple kind
of practical projects, engaging people in picking
up litter or cleaning out canals and rivers and
so on and so forth, but then slowly grew in scale
and sophistication to this complex array of local
environmental initiatives. But partnership is
absolutely central to that because we recognize,
yeah, however big we become, we can't solve all
of these problems for people. It takes a whole
array of interests. to get involved in that.
So it really is the modus operandi of our organisation.
So it's that pride and commitment to people's
communities that is so powerful, isn't it? And
unlocking that. And just going back to that collaboration,
because it's something I feel very strongly about
as well. I come from a former journalist and
I've worked on campaigns all my life for the
last 30 years. And I kind of grew to understand
that the power really does lie with the community,
whether it's identifying an issue. So in my case,
it was whether it was saving a local hospital,
saved a few of those, believe it or not, police
stations, schools, or right through things that
really matter to people. As you say, you've mentioned
clearing up people's parks, but it's not just
one organization coming in on that. it's having
the local MP in on it, it's having the local
businesses in on it, it's having the key stakeholders,
the head teacher, the doctors, the nurses, having
that grand collaboration, which is so powerful,
getting people to talk. And I think with climate
change, But it's not in the distant future, is
it? This is not a threat. Climate change, we
see it on the news every day. It's a clear and
present danger, isn't it? Climate change. And
we have to get presumably all of those stakeholders
talking about it. Do you think we're doing enough?
I don't think we're doing enough. And I don't
always think we're doing it in the right way
either. So I wouldn't disagree with you at all
that this is one of the biggest issues impacting
on communities and on our quality of life. And
that's just going to ramp up as climate impacts
become more obvious. And I think we're all aware
also that climate change impacts first and worst
on those people in society who have least, who
have least choice, protection, least power. We've
seen that on a global stage for decades and it's
becoming evident. in the UK when you have significant
climate impacts, whether that's, you know, extreme
heat or flooding or air pollution, you know,
whatever it is, those people that are going to
suffer the most are generally those people who
are worst off. And also, by the way, probably
contribute least to the problem in the first
place. This is a clear kind of injustice and
inequity built in here and baked into the system.
The way to address that, I think, we found through
our work over the last 40 years is A, not to
hack to people to do something different and
B, to make sure we understand where people are
starting from in terms of their own experience,
their own lives, the issues that they're trying
to face. It's often said, but quite often forgotten
that there's no point lecturing someone about
climate change when they're struggling to put
food on the table. or when they've not been in
work for a long time or they've got a chronic
health condition or they're worried about kind
of knife crime on the estate. That's not a conversation
that's going to go anywhere. So all of our experience
is that you have to start with where people are.
You have to think about the issues that they're
facing in their everyday life and you have to
help people go on that kind of journey of exploration
and on that journey of discovery. kind of wagging
a finger at the outset and saying we're all leading
unsustainable lifestyles and you must stop shopping
there and you must stop eating that, you must
stop flying there, that's not going to galvanize
that level of support. So our philosophy is help
people think about what they want to change here
and now in their lives. And so many of those
things actually start a conversation about the
environment. Sometimes that's about the environment
that you can see and feel and touch in your neighborhood.
For some people that might be about the quality
of the air that they're breathing. For other
people it might be their energy bill and how
to reduce that because if they reduce their energy
bill they... also probably going to be saving
carbon along the way. So all of those things
can spark a conversation and catalyze action
that will ultimately, if we can aggregate it
and if we can link that with the top -down stuff
that does need to happen in terms of international
agreements and regulation and government actions,
that's the only way we're going to get that kind
of groundswell and a mass movement. And I think
one of the things that strikes me at the moment
is one of the One of the most obvious ways in
is about protecting ourselves from the impacts.
So I think people are starting to realize that,
as you say, it is a clear and present danger.
There are kind of dangerous impacts of climate
change becoming evident. And that's a good conversation
starter in a community. How is this community
going to change? How should we protect ourselves?
So there's some remedial work that you need to
do to understand how you change a place in order
to make it more resilient but that again feeds
into a conversation well how do you go upstream
from that and how do you stop these impacts from
getting worse? And of course that you mentioned
government action and obviously that's part of
creating a I suppose you're creating an ecosystem
there of change and in terms of policy and action
on behalf of government as well. which obviously
has to come with the legitimate, you know, local
people on board as well. How much do you think
we've gone through a pandemic, we've got a lot,
you know, government's got a lot on its hands,
you know, we've got wars going on, we're still
recovering from the pandemic, which I'd like
to talk, and I want to ask you a question exactly
about your role and the impact of the pandemic,
which is... We saw during the pandemic unequal
access to many of the natural benefits that you
would expect from our natural world, didn't we?
What's your view on that? Where have you taken
that? Because I know it's something you've commented
on. You've commented on the benefits gained from
the outdoors, gained from the natural outdoors.
And you talk about protecting, you also talk
about protecting spaces. I think it's neglected
spaces. So is there a connection between that
and where have you taken that work since the
pandemic? Well, yes. So I think this has been
a thread really through Graham's work for more
than 40 years. It's about recognising that...
The physical fabric of the environment surrounding
us that we experience most is the kind of open
spaces, the parks, the green spaces, the patch
of grass at the end of the road, the community
garden, all that kind of stuff. That's most people's
experience of the natural environment. And if
you look at all the stats that people like Natural
England do, you know, I think something like
80 % of the visits that the population goes on
to the natural environment occurs in those kind
of neighbourhood urban areas, as opposed to people
going further afield into the countryside or
to the coastline or whatever it is. So those
places are absolutely important, fundamentally
important to our connection. with nature and
our connection with the environment. I'm a really
big fan of someone called Dr. William Bird, who's
a GP but also a real champion of nature, who
talks about RNA biophilia as a species. So this
idea that humans have this kind of innate connection
with the natural world that is a fundamental
driver of our well -being and if we feel disconnected
from the natural world then we feel stress and
we have a heightened sense of anxiety and that
impacts on the way we we deal with everything
else and I can absolutely identify with that
and and it does mean that therefore there is
this kind of social gradient again this this
inequity in the both distribution of that kind
of well -being benefit. Not everybody has access
to high quality green space close to where they
live. And if you live in a densely packed urban
area, then you're going to have less of it than
other people. But even if it is there, some people
in society feel less able to interact with it.
So again, the statistics about who does visit.
green spaces in their neighbourhood demonstrates
that if you've got a health condition or you're
disabled or you're from a minority ethnic background
or you're from a low -income background or you're
a young woman, then you're less likely to be
in those spaces and therefore less likely to
feel that kind of wellbeing benefit that was
so critical. to everybody's ability to deal with
something like the pandemic because you know
that was the one thing that brought lots of people
together you know the ability to go and walk
out of doors and and be in nature and feel that
that kind of restorative effect that you get
from nature and and it's it's it's a scandal
really that you know large parts of the population
aren't able to enjoy that freely aren't able
to enjoy that as much as others so that work
that we've always done about making sure that
green infrastructure, blue infrastructure if
you count kind of rivers and coastlines are accessible
to people but also that we help people overcome
the other barriers that they have be they social
or cultural or quality related barriers so that
they can feel that benefit as much as everybody
else and get that kind of sense of well -being
that's such an important thread of our work.
Exactly that equal access and considering everybody
from in whichever position they're in. So can
we just talk for a moment more deeply about the
community? We talk a lot about community. My
experience of community, I suppose from a working
perspective, is very much bringing people together
all of the time, people who might be on polar
opposites in many other times. For me, whether
it's politicians, council leaders, hospital chief
executives, and they might have different views
in other areas, but there's something that unites
them. As I say, in my case, it might have been
a closure of an A &E department or potential
closure of an A &E department or a mental health
service or a police station. But actually, there
is one thing that brings those people together,
which is that cause and that need for a service
that is considered valuable to that community.
But what does community mean in today's UK? If
you could put your finger on it, what does it
mean and what are the strengths of that? Yeah,
and I don't think I can put my finger on it.
It's such an interesting word, isn't it? And
we use it so often. and we use it without really
thinking you know what what precisely do we mean
by this and because as you say we're all in multiple
communities these days you know communities around
where we live but communities of interest and
online communities and you know and so it's so
it's a it's a real kind of you know jumble and
a mixture of all sorts of interests that we have
you know what what what brings us into contact
with other people i think What I'm interested
in, and again what a lot of our work as an organisation
has been around, is that community of place which
I still think is fundamentally important. indeed
probably more important as we live more of our
lives online and therefore interacting in different
ways online and we tend to interact online with
people who are a little bit more like us. We
gravitate to spaces where we feel kind of comfortable
and accepted and everybody understands each other
straight away but in those communities of place
we are genuinely and generally quite mixed. And
we bump into people who are not like us, who
have got different value sets, who have got different
backgrounds and different stories. But what brings
us together is our shared experience of the place
that we're in. And again, the environment within
that place. is one of those kind of great levelers.
So we all experience that environment in our
own ways, but it's the place where a lot of this
stuff, a lot of this interaction can happen and
what brings us all together. So again, going
back to the pandemic, one of the things I thought
was really interesting is that those are the
places where we met. You have to stand quite
a few feet apart and shout at each other through
the wind and rain. But effectively, you wander
off to the local park and that's where you had
your social interaction. And even when you think
about town centres these days, which we always
complain have been decimated by the rise of online
shopping. quite a lot of time. We still wander
into the town centre because we want to be in
a shared space with people. I mean it may be
that all we do now in the town centre is go for
coffee in one of the many coffee chains that
are there. We do less of our shopping in the
town centre but we gravitate there because we
want to be around people and we want to be in
that shared space. So there is something I think
about wanting to connect with the people around
us in a neighbourhood, in an area, in a place.
potentially is a platform for some really powerful
stuff about setting norms and understanding difference
and building cohesion and working together on
a project that unites us all. And again, you
know, the physical fabric of the environment
and the natural environment within that which
we feel such a connection to is a real opportunity.
You know, it's a platform for doing great things,
I think. And tell me a little bit about those
great things that you're doing at the moment
in terms of connecting and raising awareness
of those people who have the least being impacted
the most. What are you working on at this moment?
So there's a few things which are really current
in our organization and some of these are emanations
of stuff we've been doing. for decades or more.
So still that focus on how do you connect people
with nature on their doorstep is a massive thing
for us. But an interesting way in which that's
playing out at the moment is through the support
and management of what might be called green
community hubs. So these are places where...
people come along and visit either an open space
or an open space that's got a building in it
and maybe a little cafe, something like that.
So something, a draw in a neighborhood that pulls
people in. And you can either come along and
socialize and have a cup of tea with your neighbors
or you can get stuck in as a volunteer. You can
do some of the gardening or fruit growing or
whatever it is. But what we're noticing more
and more is that when you have a place like that,
actually people are starting to use those venues
for lots of other stuff. So we've got some examples
of those community hubs which are being used
by health visitors to give out health promotion
advice. We're using them to support people with
workshops about their energy bills, their energy
efficiency. So they're just a place where you
can co -locate. services. They can act as a kind
of stimulus for people to volunteer their time
and do something worthwhile in their local area.
We don't call them our volunteers. They're not
groundwork volunteers. They're people working
in their community in a voluntary capacity to
make that place better and to enable their residents,
their neighbors and other residents to enjoy
that space and get some benefit out of them for
their own purpose. So that's a really interesting
area of work that's growing. And another area
which I think again has always been a thread
of our activity but is coming to the fore is
thinking about people who are currently not able
to work out of the labour market. disadvantaged
in multiple ways, sometimes with health issues
or disability issues or an offending background
or whatever it is, people that haven't necessarily
done as well academically as they might. And
we see the numbers of young people not in employment,
education and training topping a million again.
So it always kind of goes up and down but it's
on the up at the moment and that's a cause for
concern because the longer a young person spends
out of education or out of work, the less likely
they are to fulfill their potential later on
in life. So we've always had strands of work
which is about helping people get skills and
think about jobs in the environment. Just at
the moment, if you think about the need to decarbonize
the economy and to make sure we've got a kind
of nature rich economic underpinning and all
of those industries that need to grow in order
to do that are crying out for skills. There's
a massive skill shortage in things like sustainable
construction or in waste in the circular economy
or in energy and retrofit. or in land management,
nature recovery, and we've got a rising tide
of kind of young people who are out of work.
We need to do something to address those twin
issues. The green energy and the green sector,
it's a challenging place to be, but it's certainly
an exciting place as well with a lot of potential,
isn't it, for careers and jobs of the future
and re -skilling people as well in that area.
In terms of our own lifestyle habits, we've seen
climate change. We're being told that we've got
to change our diets. We're being told that let's
look at the energy, how we consume energy on
our own homes, how we buy, whether it's retail.
What do you think the public's appetite is for
key lifestyle changes? Do you think, Graham,
you're in the... You've worked for so long in
the charity sector, but do you think people think,
oh, it's someone else's problem. Government will
just sort this out. Eventually it will become
legislation and it will become law. This isn't
something that is because you've actually a few
moments ago talked about economic hardships.
People have got a lot on their plate at the moment,
but do you think it's something that people care
enough about? What's the appetite for change?
I do think people care. And I think people right
across society care, and I think people of all
ages and all backgrounds care. I think our biggest
challenge is it's so easy to be overwhelmed by
the scale of the problem that that leads to a
degree of inertia. You know, where do you start?
What do you do? How am I ever going to make a
difference, you know, to these big challenging
stories I read on the news. And we know for some
people that tips over from kind of feeling overwhelmed
into anxiety, you know, genuine kind of mental
health issues around, you know, worry about the
future and so on. The antidote to that I've always
felt is making sure people have agency to do
something, to make some kind of change. And that's
also why I think this, you know, working in and
with a community to make that change is even
more important because if you can do it in conjunction
with others around you, that adds to that sense
of agency and you've got some power and there
is potential to make a difference. I think, as
you said in your introduction, you know, the
discourse around climate change is either the
government's just got to sort it out. What are
they waiting for? They need to do something.
And we know it's going to be painful. So, you
know, just get on with it at some point. We'll
take our medicine. But the only other thing that
we get talked about is why you've got to change
your lifestyle and not eat meat three times a
week. So it defaults to those kind of individual
sacrifices that you're supposed to make. And
it really misses. the kind of power and potential
of coming together with other people to make
a genuine and sometimes quite transformative
change in our own local areas. And that's what
I think we need to be focusing on more. It gives
people a sense of power that they can achieve
something. But it also plays on the fact that
if everybody's doing it in a space, then it must
be normal. And it resets our sense of what those
norms are. Um, so I've always felt that, you
know, rather than go around knocking on individual
doors saying, can we put solar panels on your
roof? Um, you know, that should be a, well, the
vans are parked up in, you know, these five streets
for the next six weeks and everybody's already
done, you know, it's just normal, isn't it? That's,
that's what goes on around here. Um, and that's
the sense that we've got to get to, I think,
because instinctively, I feel that everybody.
the vast majority of people want to make the
changes that are being talked about or they see
the positive potential of those changes. Life
will be better if we get there and at the moment.
you know, we can only see things going in the
wrong direction. So we've somehow got to intervene
in that and create the conditions for that collective
action. There's a lot of change, isn't there?
And just the way we see, we talked about the
outdoors and the way we see our landscape, you
know, we go to the countryside and we like to
see cows in the field, but actually they're not
great. It's not great to have a lot of cows in
the field. It's just the way we perceive and
our vision, isn't it? And accepting that everything
is... open and up for change. And while we're
talking about change and people's appetite, and
you've obviously got this huge passion for the
environment, you've always had it. How has that
impacted your own lifestyle? And how important
is your community to you? And is it do you live
this sustainable lifestyle that everybody talks
about? I can answer that one. Absolutely. No,
no, I don't. I don't. I don't live it in that
way, because like everybody else, I'm kind of
compromised. by my modern living. For me, it
is really important. That connection with nature
that I talked about earlier that William Byrd
is such a champion of, I absolutely feel that.
It makes me feel better and I feel worse if I
don't have that connection with nature on a regular
basis. Now I'm lucky. I know I'm lucky. I've
got a garden that's outside my house and I live
on the edge of a town so I can get into the countryside
quite easily from where I am on the foot or on
a bike. And I'd feel bereft if I weren't able
to do those things. But I know that that's a
privileged position to be in and lots of people
aren't as fortunate as that, which is why I'm
such an advocate of addressing the kind of social
injustice. that there is at the heart of our
environmental dilemma. And I also need to feel
part of my neighborhood. It gives me a real sense
of comfort. I feel I belong to a place and I
know people around here. So it's very intangible
stuff, but it's something that is felt quite
deeply within us all, I think. and not everybody
has the ability to express it or enjoy it or
feel the benefit of it. But as I said, like many
other people, the choices are not always straightforward.
I don't have a car, I don't drive, I don't eat
meat, but I've got kids and there's... you know,
charges left, right and centre, drawing on the
power supply and there's a flight off on holiday
every now and again. So, you know, we mustn't
beat ourselves up about all of these things and
we mustn't beat up other people about all of
these things and we mustn't be judgmental. We
need to find the ways to make the right choices
easier. And we need to give people the support
and the power to get on and make the changes
that they want to make. I mean, that's very refreshing
to hear because you are like most of us and I
can identify with most of what you've just said
about the position that we're in. But what you've
done is you've used that privilege of being able
to enjoy, as you say, the outdoors. I'm also
very lucky. I have wonderful parks. I'm lucky
enough to have a garden. But you've used that
privilege to make a difference to other people's
lives. And I think that is... That is the golden
nugget, really. And that's the wonder of it,
about everything that you've done has driven
you for over so many years. OK, I'm going to
ask this question. I do ask it of our podcast
guests. Are you an optimist or pessimist? It
depends on the day of the week and what's in
the news. So what I am optimistic about actually
is really optimistic. about is we do a lot of
work with young people in our organisation. And
tomorrow, in fact, I'm going to be in the office
meeting our new intake of our Youth Advisory
Board. And having met them online, they're just
such a fantastically energetic, inspirational
bunch of people. So what I'm really optimistic
about is that there's a generation coming through
the ranks. that understands some of this stuff,
absolutely understands it, absolutely feels it.
It isn't the generation that you see typified
on some TV screens, but is a generation of genuinely
passionate and compassionate people who are really
imbued with sense of purpose about getting this
right. So after tomorrow, after I've been with
our youth advisory board for a day, I'll be on
one of my optimistic moments. Okay, so you'll
gain inspiration from them, but obviously they'll
gain a huge amount of inspiration from you because
presumably that you can see yourself as you were
once at that point when you were volunteering.
To a degree, although the other bit of optimism
I have is that some of the young people we engage
with these days are darn sight more. It was full
of go -ahead than I ever was at that age. So,
I'm hugely impressed. Okay. So, that was then
and now's now. So, this is where you are today.
What next for you? Obviously, you've been highly
successful. You're highly influential. You've
joined the UK 100 board. I'm not sure if you
could explain what that means. That would be
great for you. But what next for you in your
career? Well, I think I said at the outset in
the introduction, I'm not a planner. I've arrived
here somewhat by accident and I'm still not a
planner, so I don't have a great game plan. So
I'll give you the... the classic football manager's
response that we'll take each game as it comes
and we'll see what happens. I'm really delighted
to be part of the UK 100 set up at Must Amit
because that is an organisation that's bringing
together and lifting up the voices of local government
leaders who are committed to this agenda. And
for all the reasons that we've just been talking
about in the last half an hour, I feel local
government is absolutely integral to our ability
to deal with these issues due to their ability
to connect with their communities, their ability
to make things happen. And the fact that local
government is so under the cosh at the moment
for various reasons is one of the reasons why
I wanted to join in on that debate and give my
support in whatever way I can. So yeah, if I've
got any ambitions left in terms of my career,
it is genuinely to see others. coming through
and ready to lead the charge and pick up the
baton. That's what's driving me now. How do we
support the next group of leaders? Fantastic.
So it's bringing those voices together and then
being generous with supporting the next generation,
if you like, of leaders and seeing that power
at grassroots level. is so important. I think
that's where power ultimately comes from personally,
is at grassroots level. Thank you very much to
Graham. There can be no doubt that climate change
is the biggest challenge of our time. Today,
we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow
global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow,
adjusting our lifestyles to current and future
impacts of climate change. Today we must use
our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate
commitments. Today we work for tomorrow's world.
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast channels.
Please tell us what you think. Email us at podcast
at salixfinance .co .uk. Huge thank you to Graham
for sharing your life with us today, but also
all that amazing experience. So thank you very
much to Graham Duxbury. It's a pleasure. Thank
you very much. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information
about our work and to find more content, please
visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.