WEBVTT 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:10.830 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.250 from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate 00:00:14.250 --> 00:00:16.929 Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to 00:00:16.929 --> 00:00:19.609 the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker 00:00:19.609 --> 00:00:21.690 and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:21.690 --> 00:00:24.449 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:24.449 --> 00:00:27.390 are talking about. Through that passion, I believe 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:30.070 that you take people with you and create action 00:00:30.070 --> 00:00:32.670 using your influence to make change and make 00:00:32.670 --> 00:00:35.820 a difference. Our task today is to get all of 00:00:35.820 --> 00:00:40.359 us to net zero. Welcome today to my guest Veronica 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.140 Sikoulis who has more than 30 years experience 00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:46.049 working in art galleries. She is an art curator, 00:00:46.570 --> 00:00:49.149 educator and writer with a background in the 00:00:49.149 --> 00:00:52.829 environmental movement and is Director of Groundwork 00:00:52.829 --> 00:00:55.990 Gallery in Kingslyn, England, which she created 00:00:55.990 --> 00:01:00.289 in 2016 to showcase art and to campaign for the 00:01:00.289 --> 00:01:03.170 environment, a subject she has long been interested 00:01:03.170 --> 00:01:05.769 in. Her long -term interest in the environment, 00:01:05.950 --> 00:01:08.469 which informs Groundwork Gallery, stems from 00:01:08.469 --> 00:01:10.650 a formative period working for Friends of the 00:01:10.650 --> 00:01:13.040 Earth. As a result of this, she wrote the Friends 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:15.319 of the Earth cookbook published by Penguin Books 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:19.459 in 1980 and has many books including on medieval 00:01:19.459 --> 00:01:22.900 art. About groundwork, she has said, my idea 00:01:22.900 --> 00:01:26.040 was to create a social, political and educational 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.560 asset as well as a new place for showing art. 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:33.219 Groundwork Gallery has hosted more than 20 exhibitions 00:01:33.219 --> 00:01:36.200 and won several awards. Before that, Veronica 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:38.439 is known for her work at Sainsbury Centre for 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:40.920 Visual Arts, University of East Anglia, where 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:43.239 she was first curator, then head of education 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:45.939 and research and deputy director. From there, 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:49.040 she has run many international and local projects. 00:01:49.379 --> 00:01:51.780 She has also worked as an independent consultant. 00:01:52.219 --> 00:01:55.870 And from 2005 to 2006... She was on secondment 00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:58.489 to Tate Britain to manage the early stages of 00:01:58.489 --> 00:02:00.909 the visual dialogues project for young people. 00:02:01.349 --> 00:02:03.290 Delighted to have you. Thank you very much for 00:02:03.290 --> 00:02:06.269 joining us today. Thank you very much. I'm delighted 00:02:06.269 --> 00:02:09.069 to be here. Thank you. Now, Veronica, can we 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:12.250 start by you telling us a little bit about your 00:02:12.250 --> 00:02:14.490 career because you're an art historian, a published 00:02:14.490 --> 00:02:19.599 author. And you're now heading up and, as I said, 00:02:20.460 --> 00:02:22.400 formed and developed and launched this successful 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.840 and unique gallery space with a focus on the 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.000 environment. And you've also been called an environmental 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.639 activist. So tell me a little about this journey 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:34.580 and how it started. Well, I mean, it actually 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:37.280 started with my grandmother taking me to see 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.439 art when I was four, against the advice of my 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:42.300 parents who said she'd be bored. But I wasn't. 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:45.319 I was completely enthralled. And I remember seeing 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.280 a portrait of which she took me to the National 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.580 Portrait Gallery and she gossiped with her friend 00:02:49.580 --> 00:02:52.479 while I stared at the Armada portrait of Queen 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.419 Elizabeth I and imagined myself in there with 00:02:55.419 --> 00:02:58.539 her. And that was really formative, both I think 00:02:58.539 --> 00:03:01.340 probably me as a medievalist or historian anyway 00:03:01.340 --> 00:03:05.560 because not medieval but almost, but also just 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:09.060 loving art from that moment and being an advocate 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:11.740 also for that being important for young people 00:03:11.740 --> 00:03:14.740 throughout their lives. So that was one thing. 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:17.219 I mean the other really formative thing was after 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:19.580 I finished my degree, which was in art history, 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.439 it turned out also my grandmother had studied 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.680 art history in Vienna. I was joining Friends 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:28.680 of the Earth. That was a chance move. I needed 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:31.379 a job for the summer and my friend was leaving 00:03:31.379 --> 00:03:34.259 and was running their administrative office and 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:37.439 I went for an interview the next day and got 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.389 the job running the front office, which I did, 00:03:40.669 --> 00:03:43.629 I then extended, I was signed up to do PhD, but 00:03:43.629 --> 00:03:46.969 I put that off so I could do an extra year. That 00:03:46.969 --> 00:03:52.090 was really transformative and made me think very 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:55.969 much about how influence is made, how people, 00:03:56.509 --> 00:03:59.030 how one works both, has need to work both bottom 00:03:59.030 --> 00:04:03.750 up and top down to have an effect. And it's affected 00:04:03.750 --> 00:04:06.189 my entire career and my entire approach to how 00:04:06.189 --> 00:04:09.680 to organize things. So those were the two things 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.360 really. What the gallery has done is brought 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.019 a lot of those early things together and also 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:18.720 my experience working with communities and working 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:22.699 with people. I think it's very important to talk 00:04:22.699 --> 00:04:25.699 about art. There was a time when I did want to 00:04:25.699 --> 00:04:28.100 be an artist and could have gone that way, but 00:04:28.100 --> 00:04:31.459 actually I was, for one reason or another didn't, 00:04:31.660 --> 00:04:35.180 but actually I found that there is a huge role 00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:38.439 to play in talking about art and responding to 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:42.579 it and it's a responsibility that everybody has 00:04:42.579 --> 00:04:45.699 or ought to have because it's through that that 00:04:45.699 --> 00:04:48.000 the beautiful things and important things that 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.839 artists make then get an intelligent response 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:52.879 and that's the one thing actually the art world's 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.319 really not very good at. I mean there are education 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:58.459 departments but they tend to be stereotypically 00:04:58.459 --> 00:05:02.939 directed towards children, which is important, 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:06.019 but actually there's a huge audience potential 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:11.740 amongst adults. There is. Art has this very magical 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:17.199 way of bringing us into a conversation. Forget 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.699 language, forget politics. It has a way, like 00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:21.639 you talked about your very early experience, 00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:25.800 it has a way of absorbing us and triggering a 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.759 conversation, no matter how we feel about it. 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:32.579 doesn't it? I mean, art is accessible. Yes, it 00:05:32.579 --> 00:05:35.800 does. But I mean, ironically, people are terribly 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:37.879 afraid of that because they feel they need to 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:40.399 talk knowledgeably, which of course you don't 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.860 have to talk knowledgeably. You just need to 00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:47.199 express yourself and use it as a trigger to talk. 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.439 I mean, one of my friends and mentors in the 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:52.480 environment movement said to me a long time ago, 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.139 I don't need artists to talk about art. I can 00:05:55.139 --> 00:05:58.439 talk about art. It's there for me. A new work 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:00.800 of art is a new thing come into being and it's 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.879 there for me to launch from and that's important. 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.939 Yes. It's about how we feel, isn't it? And as 00:06:06.939 --> 00:06:09.540 you say, it can portray something that's perhaps 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:12.879 difficult to say and we don't need to make everything 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.000 terribly complicated. But in terms of climate 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:17.899 change, because we're talking about climate change 00:06:17.899 --> 00:06:20.720 today and we're looking at massive challenges 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:24.490 as we face climate change, What part do you think? 00:06:24.569 --> 00:06:28.470 We've just talked about that responsibility that 00:06:28.470 --> 00:06:31.290 we all have. I mean, artists have that responsibility 00:06:31.290 --> 00:06:35.529 to talk about this agenda, not agenda, but to 00:06:35.529 --> 00:06:37.930 talk about what is happening to our planet. What 00:06:37.930 --> 00:06:41.410 part do you think art has to play? As we've started 00:06:41.410 --> 00:06:44.269 saying, it can be a transformative experience. 00:06:44.610 --> 00:06:48.129 In that respect, it can help people think about 00:06:48.129 --> 00:06:51.889 change. Artists are very good at being lateral 00:06:51.889 --> 00:06:55.490 thinkers and not going for the most obvious but 00:06:55.490 --> 00:06:59.250 pointing out things that have been neglected 00:06:59.250 --> 00:07:02.529 or, for example, thinking about weeds rather 00:07:02.529 --> 00:07:08.269 than present them. So I think it's about influencing 00:07:08.269 --> 00:07:12.649 people to think openly about things and about 00:07:12.649 --> 00:07:15.949 the environment. And I think thinking about climate 00:07:15.949 --> 00:07:18.430 change, we have to think about the environment 00:07:18.430 --> 00:07:22.769 very broadly and very deeply. It's not just about 00:07:22.769 --> 00:07:25.089 reaching net zero. Reaching net zero includes 00:07:25.089 --> 00:07:28.329 that, of course. Now, I was speaking in a recent 00:07:28.329 --> 00:07:30.829 podcast actually to Australian artist Catherine 00:07:30.829 --> 00:07:34.069 Boland. She's actually UK born. And it was her 00:07:34.069 --> 00:07:36.850 piece of art actually that was given by the Australian 00:07:36.850 --> 00:07:40.209 Prime Minister to Joe Biden when he was president. 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.199 She works around climate change. Her studio is 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.620 in the bush and the area that she lives, which 00:07:45.620 --> 00:07:48.100 is incredibly beautiful around Mirambula Lake, 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.800 was very impacted by the bushfires. And she talked 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:56.759 to me very passionately about being able to talk 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.879 about climate change, but in a very direct and 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:03.720 digestible way. She felt that her art was a way 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:08.939 of getting to people in a subtle but It is there 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:13.279 in that way. And your gallery, it's obviously 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:15.579 a wonderful place to come and visit, but the 00:08:15.579 --> 00:08:17.779 artists that you're showing, can you tell me 00:08:17.779 --> 00:08:21.199 a little bit about who they are, but what they 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.920 are showing and what do you expect from the artists 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.519 that you show in terms of their commitment to 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:28.920 the environment and sustainability, their sustainable 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:32.320 art practices, for example? I always say they 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.019 don't have to be committed environmentalists 00:08:35.019 --> 00:08:38.590 directly. because I am and my audiences and that's 00:08:38.590 --> 00:08:42.070 what I'm here for is to engage with with that 00:08:42.070 --> 00:08:44.850 bridge as it were. For example the very first 00:08:44.850 --> 00:08:48.009 two artists I showed Richard Long and Roger Ackling. 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:50.570 Roger Ackling was a dear friend who lived in 00:08:50.570 --> 00:08:53.429 Norfolk was well known in the art world particularly 00:08:53.429 --> 00:08:55.549 but pretty well known and very well known in 00:08:55.549 --> 00:09:00.610 Japan and he made art by burning on wood. He 00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:04.929 died very sadly during my setting up of the gallery 00:09:05.579 --> 00:09:08.080 But I said to him, Roger, I want you to be my 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:09.740 first artist, because I'd like a big name. And 00:09:09.740 --> 00:09:11.559 he said, well, in that case, I've asked Richard. 00:09:11.620 --> 00:09:14.779 And so he asked Richard Long, who has since become 00:09:14.779 --> 00:09:18.100 friend. Neither of them declared themselves to 00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:20.539 be environmentalists. And recently, Richard Long 00:09:20.539 --> 00:09:23.620 gave a talk in Norwich and said, I'm passionate 00:09:23.620 --> 00:09:27.759 about nature. It matters to me. And the environment 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.059 matters to me. But I'm not an activist, neither 00:09:31.059 --> 00:09:32.899 of them. And there are a lot of artists like 00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:36.480 that who are don't call themselves environmental 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:40.039 artists. And that's perfectly fine. But in those 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:42.559 two cases, their work is absolutely ethical in 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.200 terms of not causing harm to the environment. 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:48.440 And that's my bottom line. Very reluctant, for 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.340 example, to show artists who paint with acrylics. 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:55.519 Because as I learned from working with a microbiologist, 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.220 every brush worth even of household paint washes 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:02.379 billions of microparticles of plastics into the 00:10:02.379 --> 00:10:05.159 drainage system. and that's one of the big no 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.279 -no's for me but I mean that quote there are 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:09.279 other problems so there's there's a lot to think 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.159 about in terms of materials artists use in terms 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:14.899 of the practicalities but I look for artists 00:10:14.899 --> 00:10:19.200 who are seriously engaged in their own research 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:21.799 and their own deep thinking so as I said doesn't 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:24.259 be directly about the environment it has to be 00:10:24.259 --> 00:10:26.860 relevant and then there are many many many artists 00:10:26.860 --> 00:10:29.879 who would would say they are environmental who 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:32.419 paint watercolours of landscapes, for example, 00:10:32.539 --> 00:10:36.220 or skyscapes or seascapes or anyscapes. And I 00:10:36.220 --> 00:10:39.039 like that kind of thing, but I feel there's a 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.500 place for that that's already taken in many popular 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:45.720 galleries. And I feel I need to work and push 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.200 a bit harder and work with people whose work 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.879 is less accessible, but actually can be really 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.179 powerful in its impact. And so I follow themes. 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.399 I've always thought in that way rather than looking 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.679 at, I don't do solo shows and work on personalities, 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:06.179 although the odd big name does help, but another 00:11:06.179 --> 00:11:08.159 big name I had in the early days, and it was 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:10.379 important in the early days actually to establish 00:11:10.379 --> 00:11:13.440 that, those big names, because that means now 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.980 actually I can pretty much rely on that I could 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:18.460 show anyone. Yes. The other big name was Herman 00:11:18.460 --> 00:11:21.059 de Vries, who's an extraordinary grand old man 00:11:21.059 --> 00:11:23.639 of the environment, who lives near the forest 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:26.179 in the Steigerwald, he's Dutch but lives in Germany. 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.940 and he says the forest is my studio and he's 00:11:30.940 --> 00:11:35.899 a scientist at root at heart but actually an 00:11:35.899 --> 00:11:39.019 exploratory experimental artist but using earth 00:11:39.019 --> 00:11:43.000 pigments but in a very simple and clear way and 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.580 he's like he's got a museum in the south of france 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:47.620 of his earth pigments which he's collected from 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:51.539 around the world and made into images and they're 00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:54.899 very simple and actually there were some of the 00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:58.279 earliest things I showed and also his collection 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:00.899 of stones and they were incredibly irritating 00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:03.679 to all the watercolour artists because he spent 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.019 hours making detailed images and he just kind 00:12:07.019 --> 00:12:11.240 of stroked the pigment on the paper. So I had 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:14.200 many conversations with him saying he's a natural 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:19.440 philosopher and actually one of those most vehement 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:24.169 critics said he's a charlatan. he became a very 00:12:24.169 --> 00:12:26.690 devoted follower of the gallery you know so i 00:12:26.690 --> 00:12:29.090 love those conversations or when i've got my 00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:31.929 richard long which is the great ooze mud drawing 00:12:31.929 --> 00:12:34.429 he threw mud at the wall and the classic comment 00:12:34.429 --> 00:12:37.000 people make is did the builders throw coffee 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.200 at the wall? And that's the beginning of a conversation. 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:42.259 Yeah, it is that, it's triggering that conversation 00:12:42.259 --> 00:12:45.419 exactly. And I mean, none of this is, it's obviously 00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:47.039 not new, because you've mentioned Richard Long, 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.500 who's obviously been around for a while and been 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:50.440 working for a while. And then I think back to 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:53.419 Agnes Deane in the 1980s and the wheat field. 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:57.120 in Manhattan there, and which really got people 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.120 talking. And there are many, there's Andy Goldsworth, 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:02.519 he isn't there, Yorkshire Sculpture Park. So 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:06.500 there's a lot of stuff, it's not new, but it's 00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:10.659 giving it a fresh showcase, I suppose, and bringing 00:13:10.659 --> 00:13:13.360 it back into the conversation and using it to 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.419 inspire another generation as well, isn't it? 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.230 Yes, I've mentioned great, two great, three great 00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:22.649 men. But actually, in fact, most of the artists 00:13:22.649 --> 00:13:25.909 I've shown have been women overall, and most 00:13:25.909 --> 00:13:28.889 of them much, much less high profile and less 00:13:28.889 --> 00:13:31.590 well known. And they all love showing their work. 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:33.990 The Richard Long work lives in my gallery all 00:13:33.990 --> 00:13:35.789 the time and people always take photographs of 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:37.289 their work next to it and they're very proud 00:13:37.289 --> 00:13:39.789 to be seen next to it. There are many, many, 00:13:39.789 --> 00:13:43.450 many artists who are working seriously. who are 00:13:43.450 --> 00:13:46.990 not celebrated but who need to be recognized 00:13:46.990 --> 00:13:49.409 and brought into conversations and their work 00:13:49.409 --> 00:13:53.289 seen and developed. So what I've been doing, 00:13:53.490 --> 00:13:56.970 I said I had theme shows and many found many 00:13:56.970 --> 00:13:59.720 really wonderful artists that way. Some people 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.700 have come to me, some people have recommended, 00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:04.840 some people I look for once I know the theme 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.860 and I think yes, that person would be perfect 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:09.480 for that. The works I often like the most are 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.059 the most modest and the smallest and the most 00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:14.740 subtle because they're not shouty and there's 00:14:14.740 --> 00:14:17.299 some shouty big artists in the environment world. 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:20.059 The people I show tend not to be, they're the 00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:24.110 quiet ones. I respond to that very much but the 00:14:24.110 --> 00:14:26.909 other thing I've really done more and more of 00:14:26.909 --> 00:14:29.889 over the years is develop a residency program 00:14:29.889 --> 00:14:33.090 and it started because I designed the building 00:14:33.090 --> 00:14:36.590 as repurposed 1930s building and the ground floor's 00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:39.690 classic gallery first floor multi -purpose live 00:14:39.690 --> 00:14:43.250 workspace and so I was intended to have an artist 00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:46.700 working there living there. And so it started 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:49.580 in 2020 with a partnership with the University 00:14:49.580 --> 00:14:51.860 of the Arts London, and a young artist had that 00:14:51.860 --> 00:14:54.720 space. In fact, I had three, because there were 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.700 two others of my own, one after the other. And 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:00.559 then immediately afterwards, they had an exhibition. 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.620 And the next year, there were more artists. And 00:15:03.620 --> 00:15:06.399 I had then two partners, both in the country, 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:08.879 one in Reefam and one in Great Cressingham Grange 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.779 projects. And we had more. And then it grew. 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:16.200 Last year we had 20 artists, this year we had 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.100 150 applications, but we're scaling down to 12 00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:24.279 artists. But what I do now is they do a program 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.340 over the summer and then they show for the autumn 00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:29.919 exhibition. So what we're really getting is a 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:32.559 response to the environment directly. Yes, so 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.440 you are engaging even more people. But can I 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:38.279 just talk to you for a moment, Veronica, about 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.620 the actual space? Because in terms of the way 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:43.899 you operate Groundwork Gallery, I just want to 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:45.759 understand what kind of sustainable measures 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.919 you have in place that reflect this mission. 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:51.820 Because it's actually built on a floodplain. 00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:54.679 You say it's a repurposed 1930s building. And 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.220 how has that impacted the way you use? I mean, 00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:59.639 built on a floodplain, how has that impacted 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:01.700 the way you use? You've got these wonderful pieces 00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:03.700 of art, and I'm slightly worried that you're 00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:07.309 built there on a floodplain. Granny died, left 00:16:07.309 --> 00:16:09.809 legacy. In fact, a series of grannies died, or 00:16:09.809 --> 00:16:12.710 grannies and aunts, and so that enabled the project 00:16:12.710 --> 00:16:15.370 to take place. So they're all commemorated there. 00:16:15.830 --> 00:16:18.850 And it was started as just a project to get a 00:16:18.850 --> 00:16:22.149 buy -to -let property, but then this little industrial 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:24.690 building was available opposite the Custom House, 00:16:24.950 --> 00:16:28.580 perfect position in Kingslyn. but actually yes 00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:32.100 right on the river as an investment it's hopeless 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:35.559 because one day it will be washed away but that 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:38.899 was one of the imperatives making it about the 00:16:38.899 --> 00:16:41.639 environment and also the fact that it is in the 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:43.559 floodplain is not allowed to be lived in on the 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:47.360 ground floor so that had to be some other purpose. 00:16:47.690 --> 00:16:50.230 It wasn't necessarily always going to be a gallery 00:16:50.230 --> 00:16:52.629 in my mind. I was thinking, should I run workshops 00:16:52.629 --> 00:16:55.029 there or I could let it? But anyway, then I thought, 00:16:55.070 --> 00:16:57.629 no, it's got to be. It cannot be anything else. 00:16:57.649 --> 00:17:03.009 It's perfect scale. And so I found a local builder 00:17:03.009 --> 00:17:05.990 who said, I've made enough money this year. I'll 00:17:05.990 --> 00:17:09.309 build it at cost for you. And he also did a lot 00:17:09.309 --> 00:17:13.029 of repurposing of materials. The floors and the 00:17:13.029 --> 00:17:15.630 staircase are made of scaffold boards and there's 00:17:15.630 --> 00:17:18.769 a scaffold rail as a stair rail which is actually 00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:20.869 one of the most admired features of the building, 00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:23.630 funnily enough. The bathrooms are lined with 00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:27.269 recycled plastic made by artists and the top 00:17:27.269 --> 00:17:31.009 floor is a holiday let and that's what pays. 00:17:31.910 --> 00:17:35.289 And there I've used local materials, designer 00:17:35.289 --> 00:17:39.329 materials, high quality handmade stuff. So locally, 00:17:39.329 --> 00:17:42.289 very locally sourced and sustainable and you're 00:17:42.289 --> 00:17:45.170 using a local local craftspeople as well as well 00:17:45.170 --> 00:17:47.410 as materials. Yes, I mean in fact the gallery 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:51.410 is run on a shoestring and I am the chief technician 00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:54.349 as well as the chief writer and marketer and 00:17:54.349 --> 00:17:57.170 everything else delivery person and everything 00:17:57.170 --> 00:17:59.910 and it has to be that because I can't afford 00:17:59.910 --> 00:18:03.390 to pay staff. I have wonderful volunteers and 00:18:03.390 --> 00:18:06.029 I have a fantastic graphic designer Piers Marchbank 00:18:06.029 --> 00:18:10.049 who's really help to establish the ethos and 00:18:10.049 --> 00:18:13.710 the look of the place. So I've got a suite of 00:18:13.710 --> 00:18:16.150 exhibition furniture which gets used for everything 00:18:16.150 --> 00:18:18.670 but somehow it manages to look different each 00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:20.690 time. So I've got plinths and things that I was 00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:24.470 given by the Sainsbury Centre. A great big table 00:18:24.470 --> 00:18:27.990 case I had made at the beginning. I sell jewellery 00:18:27.990 --> 00:18:31.130 made by artists in cases that again I've had 00:18:31.130 --> 00:18:33.730 since the beginning and reuse all the time. So 00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:37.019 I'm waiting for somebody to make a substitute 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:40.240 for bubble wrap that really is both waterproof 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.559 and keeps things safe because that is at the 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.000 moment the only unavoidable big issue. Yeah, 00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:49.359 but I reuse that. And when people come into the 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.279 space, I'm quite interested to know who wanders 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.440 in. Do you think people realize that that much 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.660 thought has gone into that space? They get told 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:01.000 that on the call because we talk to everybody 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:04.150 who comes in. And Catherine, who works with me, 00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:07.450 also is wonderful, very wonderfully sociable 00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:10.829 and informed and good at talking to people. And 00:19:10.829 --> 00:19:14.609 they often don't realize, and we get quite a 00:19:14.609 --> 00:19:17.150 few people, increasingly people dropping in. 00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:20.329 I mean, people are often afraid of coming into 00:19:20.329 --> 00:19:22.509 galleries and feel intimidated, et cetera. We 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:25.130 know that. We make a point of being friendly. 00:19:25.190 --> 00:19:28.410 And it does say so on TripAdvisor and on Google. 00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:30.589 The first thing you see is the statement saying 00:19:30.589 --> 00:19:34.750 that staff are very friendly. So that's an important 00:19:34.750 --> 00:19:37.710 signal to send. People will get a warm welcome 00:19:37.710 --> 00:19:40.430 and get to talk to you about the staircase just 00:19:40.430 --> 00:19:42.470 as much as they can talk to you about the art 00:19:42.470 --> 00:19:46.190 on the walls. Yes, and also everyone has something 00:19:46.190 --> 00:19:48.029 to say about the environment and the weather 00:19:48.029 --> 00:19:51.579 is a good opening. So we could always steer the 00:19:51.579 --> 00:19:54.980 conversation. Now it's fascinating and it's a 00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:58.940 huge passion project as well as a fantastic addition 00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:01.680 to the local community. I can see that and to 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.589 the art world. and to be able to bring such a 00:20:04.589 --> 00:20:07.470 mix of names into that project as well. But for 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:09.430 you, I can see you certainly have got your work 00:20:09.430 --> 00:20:11.829 cut out. As you say, you're the technician, you're 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:15.349 the communications, you've got the vision, you've 00:20:15.349 --> 00:20:18.369 clearly got the vision. But what next for you? 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:19.970 Because you've obviously had a highly successful 00:20:19.970 --> 00:20:22.680 career, you've published author. You've launched 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.059 this gallery, you've headed major art projects. 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.859 What next, Veronica, because it's really interesting 00:20:27.859 --> 00:20:29.660 to keep an eye on people like you, because I 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:31.460 know you've probably got a whole bag full of 00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:34.900 further ideas and plans. Well, there are two 00:20:34.900 --> 00:20:39.000 big things. One is that there's a big threat 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.079 at the moment of development to The Wash, which 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.319 is the area between Lake Country and Norfolk. 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.789 We're gathering a band of people from wildlife 00:20:47.789 --> 00:20:50.769 organizations, environmental campaigners and 00:20:50.769 --> 00:20:55.529 artists to make a very big statement in favor 00:20:55.529 --> 00:21:00.109 of the environment of that whole area because 00:21:00.109 --> 00:21:02.990 the threat would turn it in basically into an 00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:07.029 industrial zone and it would be really terrible 00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:10.589 and needs to be contained. That's going to be 00:21:10.589 --> 00:21:13.390 a huge campaign that's we go way, way beyond 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:16.960 me but I hope grandma will be very keen in that. 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:19.619 I mean the other thing I'm thinking about and 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:23.400 I'm not sure yet is but I'm thinking about writing 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.319 a history of art and environment because if you 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.000 look up art environment history it starts in 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.140 American land art and of course it started way 00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:34.460 before and as a medievalist I feel there's a 00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:37.279 lot to say about earlier periods. I'm just reading 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.539 actually Peter Frank Pan's The Earth Transformed 00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:43.799 which it is taking an environmental focus on 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.680 very broad sweeps of history. For me that's incredibly 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.240 broad. I would want to be quite specific in the 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:53.579 way I am with art and would like to use case 00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:57.000 studies and examples to talk about different 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.059 attitudes because there's a lot that we can do 00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:02.660 and that I guess is my background as an art historian 00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:06.839 does give me the tools to think from a work of 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.160 art to a wider world and that's what I'd like 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.299 to do. Okay so we're going to look out for the 00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:14.940 campaigns, the books and obviously the gallery 00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:18.700 and can I ask is that gallery open how many days 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:21.769 a week for people wanting to come by? It's open 00:22:21.769 --> 00:22:24.869 four days a week, so Wednesday to Saturday, 11th 00:22:24.869 --> 00:22:27.710 or 4th, but other times by appointment and often 00:22:27.710 --> 00:22:30.029 there are events happening on other days. Okay, 00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:32.470 well, I'm definitely going to come and I'll leave 00:22:32.470 --> 00:22:34.970 the dog outside, but she'll be with me, but I'm 00:22:34.970 --> 00:22:37.150 definitely going to come. So, thank you very 00:22:37.150 --> 00:22:39.789 much for this conversation today and for taking 00:22:39.789 --> 00:22:43.430 such time and we really appreciate it here at 00:22:43.430 --> 00:22:45.880 the Decarbonisation Dialogue. So there can be 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.079 no doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.740 of our time. Today we must reduce greenhouse 00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:53.500 gas emissions to slow global warming. Today we 00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:55.680 must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.980 to current and future impacts of climate change. 00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:01.240 Today we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:04.000 on our climate commitments. Today we work for 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.819 tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe to 00:23:06.819 --> 00:23:08.940 our podcast channels and please tell us what 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:12.900 you think and please email us at podcast at salixfinance 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:16.960 .co .uk. So a big thank you to Veronica for her 00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:20.039 time today. Thank you. Thank you very much. You've 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.880 been listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.920 a podcast from Salix. 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