WEBVTT 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:10.830 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.109 from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate 00:00:14.109 --> 00:00:16.710 Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to 00:00:16.710 --> 00:00:19.390 the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker 00:00:19.390 --> 00:00:21.329 and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:21.329 --> 00:00:23.910 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:23.910 --> 00:00:26.370 are talking about. Through that passion, I believe 00:00:26.370 --> 00:00:29.010 you take people with you and create action using 00:00:29.010 --> 00:00:31.910 your influence to make change and make a difference. 00:00:32.329 --> 00:00:36.149 Our task today is to get all of us to net zero. 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:39.700 With me today we've got a wonderful guest and 00:00:39.700 --> 00:00:44.420 that's Nadine Mustafa. Nadine is a research associate 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:47.100 in chemical engineering department and the centre 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:50.399 for environmental policy at Imperial. Nadine 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.520 specialises in systems modelling for carbon management 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.359 and decarbonisation technologies, developing 00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:59.179 net zero strategies including carbon accounting, 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:02.969 policy and carbon markets. Her work integrates 00:01:02.969 --> 00:01:05.829 socio -economic and techno -economic aspects 00:01:05.829 --> 00:01:08.650 of various energy technologies, including carbon 00:01:08.650 --> 00:01:11.030 capture and storage from various applications, 00:01:11.549 --> 00:01:14.390 CO2 removal from the atmosphere, nuclear power 00:01:14.390 --> 00:01:18.129 and sustainable fuels. Nadine also serves as 00:01:18.129 --> 00:01:20.290 the Programme and Policy Officer at the Coalition 00:01:20.290 --> 00:01:23.090 for Negative Emissions, advancing negative emission 00:01:23.090 --> 00:01:27.019 technologies and related policies. Nadine graduated 00:01:27.019 --> 00:01:28.959 in Chemical Engineering and Business Management 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:30.680 as a minor from the University of Birmingham, 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.560 and her PhD research focused aspects of carbon 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.040 capture, which involved a study of the kinetics 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:40.159 of carbon dioxide absorption. But I'm hoping 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:43.200 Nadine can explain all of that in very simple 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.640 terms. I am afraid I am not a scientist. But 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.359 welcome very much to Nadine. Welcome. Lovely 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:51.640 to have you here today. Thanks, Hanna. Thanks 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:54.579 for the introduction. Thanks for having me. Okay 00:01:54.579 --> 00:01:56.420 Nadine, can we start off by talking a little 00:01:56.420 --> 00:01:58.959 bit about your career in science, engineering 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:02.340 and environment. You're a strong role model. 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:06.019 Is this an area, for example, and I'd like to 00:02:06.019 --> 00:02:08.099 know about your background, how you moved into 00:02:08.099 --> 00:02:10.319 it. And I'd also like to know, is this something 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.719 you would encourage, for example, girls to consider 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.419 as a career? The short answer is yes. I'd definitely 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:20.569 encourage girls to join this career. I have to 00:02:20.569 --> 00:02:23.389 say though that I joined it by pure luck. And 00:02:23.389 --> 00:02:26.930 I also want to say that it's probably because 00:02:26.930 --> 00:02:29.210 I didn't have enough role models in the space 00:02:29.210 --> 00:02:32.150 when I was younger. So I was the kind of student 00:02:32.150 --> 00:02:35.289 that got the highest grades. I was valedictorian 00:02:35.289 --> 00:02:38.650 and so on and so forth. But the only option that 00:02:38.650 --> 00:02:40.870 was ever presented to me was being a medical 00:02:40.870 --> 00:02:43.889 doctor. And that's quite common. So I'm Egyptian 00:02:43.889 --> 00:02:45.409 and it's quite common in the Middle East that 00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:49.330 if you're a top student, you do medicine or engineering. 00:02:49.710 --> 00:02:52.909 But as a girl, it was always that, you know, 00:02:52.990 --> 00:02:54.509 no, you're going to be doing medicine. It makes 00:02:54.509 --> 00:02:56.229 more sense. I'm not really sure why, because 00:02:56.229 --> 00:03:00.909 the hours actually are not as flexible. But usually 00:03:00.909 --> 00:03:02.849 as a girl, you're pushed into medicine. And so 00:03:02.849 --> 00:03:05.189 I was actually going to do medicine. And I mean, 00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:07.229 even my A levels, I didn't do physics because 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:10.150 I was going to do medicine. And the only reason 00:03:10.150 --> 00:03:12.949 I ended up in engineering was because I was talking 00:03:12.949 --> 00:03:15.169 to my parents and they wanted to send me abroad 00:03:15.169 --> 00:03:17.949 to study. And I felt that I didn't want to stay 00:03:17.949 --> 00:03:20.169 abroad for that long. Jokes, obviously, because 00:03:20.169 --> 00:03:23.150 I've been in the UK for 10 years now. But at 00:03:23.150 --> 00:03:24.530 least when I was younger, there wasn't enough 00:03:24.530 --> 00:03:26.930 role models within the space of engineering and 00:03:26.930 --> 00:03:29.629 science to show you what you can do within that 00:03:29.629 --> 00:03:32.789 space. So sometimes all you think about when 00:03:32.789 --> 00:03:34.590 you think about it of an engineer is that you 00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:37.610 think of someone with a hard yellow hat and a 00:03:37.610 --> 00:03:39.689 blue jumpsuit, which is absolutely not true. 00:03:39.909 --> 00:03:42.590 I actually know very few people that wear this 00:03:42.590 --> 00:03:44.610 blue jumpsuit in engineering from everyone I 00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:46.939 know that's an engineer. And so I think just 00:03:46.939 --> 00:03:49.099 the general understanding of what engineers can 00:03:49.099 --> 00:03:51.580 do is something that we might lack and there's 00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:53.680 a lot of things that happened since I got into 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.919 engineering that kind of help with that. And 00:03:56.919 --> 00:03:59.120 you're using your skills and your education, 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.659 that engineering background for good now because 00:04:01.659 --> 00:04:04.280 your job is largely about the impact of climate 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:06.539 change and actually looking at the solutions 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:09.539 to mitigate that. Can I ask, because we're going 00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:12.189 to spend hopefully a large part of our... interview 00:04:12.189 --> 00:04:14.650 today talking about sustainable fashion. But 00:04:14.650 --> 00:04:17.029 before we do, I'd like to talk about the trends 00:04:17.029 --> 00:04:19.550 regarding clean energy at the moment. Because 00:04:19.550 --> 00:04:22.029 it's not all doom and gloom, isn't it? I know 00:04:22.029 --> 00:04:25.250 you're quite a positive person in nature. I've 00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:29.370 read the interviews, by the way. Yeah, I mean, 00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:32.209 a lot of people do say that I'm quite optimistic. 00:04:32.370 --> 00:04:35.310 And I am because When I first started my PhD 00:04:35.310 --> 00:04:37.610 and I was telling people that I work in sustainability 00:04:37.610 --> 00:04:39.910 and climate change, very few people knew what 00:04:39.910 --> 00:04:42.910 I was talking about. And then there was a point 00:04:42.910 --> 00:04:46.850 where I was volunteering and teaching and I asked 00:04:46.850 --> 00:04:48.910 students, you know, what do you know about climate 00:04:48.910 --> 00:04:50.850 change? And they actually knew a lot. And so 00:04:50.850 --> 00:04:53.310 I was very surprised. So like the first five 00:04:53.310 --> 00:04:55.589 slides of my presentation became redundant because 00:04:55.589 --> 00:04:57.250 they actually knew what I was talking about. 00:04:57.449 --> 00:05:01.550 Whereas if I were to give that lecture or lesson, 00:05:01.829 --> 00:05:05.410 a couple of years back before that time, no one 00:05:05.410 --> 00:05:06.850 would know what I was talking about. My friends 00:05:06.850 --> 00:05:08.949 wouldn't know what I was talking about. They 00:05:08.949 --> 00:05:11.769 didn't necessarily understand why it was important 00:05:11.769 --> 00:05:14.910 to be more sustainable or what climate change 00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:18.329 was. And when I was first working on carbon capture, 00:05:18.930 --> 00:05:21.290 again, pretty much no one knew what I was doing. 00:05:21.430 --> 00:05:23.089 My sister is an engineer. She had no idea what 00:05:23.089 --> 00:05:26.930 I was doing. I'm optimistic because I think there's 00:05:26.930 --> 00:05:29.970 so much happening in this space. There are, there's 00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:32.649 so many policy directions, like the directions 00:05:32.649 --> 00:05:35.329 of the policies are going in the right way. And 00:05:35.329 --> 00:05:38.290 industries are trying to also go in the right 00:05:38.290 --> 00:05:41.750 way. And I think there's an overload of information, 00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:46.209 both from a, I guess, from a governmental or 00:05:46.209 --> 00:05:48.290 industry perspective, but also from a consumer 00:05:48.290 --> 00:05:51.180 perspective. And so we need to kind of collaborate 00:05:51.180 --> 00:05:54.379 more on that. But generally, I'm an optimistic 00:05:54.379 --> 00:05:56.800 person because I think there's a lot happening 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:58.379 in this space. There's a lot of people talking 00:05:58.379 --> 00:06:00.720 about this, doing research, working in this space, 00:06:01.220 --> 00:06:05.300 really trying to get us to our targets in decarbonization 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:08.779 and net zero. And so, yeah, I don't think it's 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:12.899 all gray and dull. I do think we're going in 00:06:12.899 --> 00:06:15.180 the right direction. The only thing I would say 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:18.560 though is that now is probably the time for action. 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:22.959 We've talked a lot about this. We're researching 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:24.920 a lot and we're going to continue doing that. 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.319 We're going to continue talking and we're going 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:28.740 to continue doing the research. We're going to 00:06:28.740 --> 00:06:30.800 continue communicating the science and we're 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.379 probably going to need flexible policies, whether 00:06:34.379 --> 00:06:37.060 governmental or industrial, as we know more. 00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:40.720 But we do need to do more action now and less. 00:06:40.810 --> 00:06:43.689 you know, talking about it. Okay, so you're seeing 00:06:43.689 --> 00:06:48.389 a lot of good policy, a lot of business decisions, 00:06:48.990 --> 00:06:51.509 and you talk about all of us. Now, here's a good 00:06:51.509 --> 00:06:53.910 chance for us to move on to sustainable fashion, 00:06:53.970 --> 00:06:56.870 because it's something that we're all in some 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.990 way involved in. Now, according to the United 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:03.709 Nations Alliance for Sustainable Fashion, the 00:07:03.709 --> 00:07:06.629 average consumer now buys 60 % more clothing 00:07:06.629 --> 00:07:10.939 than we did 15 years ago. So we're buying, we're 00:07:10.939 --> 00:07:13.560 consumers, aren't we? We're big consumers. We're 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:15.560 buying a lot more. And I know that you've done 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.579 a lot of work on fast fashion and sustainable 00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:22.100 fashion. Why are we talking about this in connection 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:25.220 with climate change? Why, what does sustainable, 00:07:25.500 --> 00:07:28.120 I'd like to know what does sustainable mean and 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:31.060 what is sustainable fashion? So I would say sustainable 00:07:31.060 --> 00:07:34.759 fashion is designing, producing and consuming 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:37.639 the clothes in ways that minimize environmental 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:40.860 harm. And so that's how I would define it. And 00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:43.060 I would also consider things like the ethical 00:07:43.060 --> 00:07:45.519 labor practices. I would put that under sustainable 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:50.120 fashion. And the reason we consider it a thing 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.459 and we need to think about it is that fashion, 00:07:52.459 --> 00:07:54.879 for example, contributes a lot to the global 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:56.879 CO2 emissions. As far as I remember, the last 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.220 reference I've read was 10 % of global CO2 emissions, 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.500 which is a lot. So I think in comparison, aviation 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:07.879 is 2 % to 4%. And I can send references just 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:09.439 to make sure that the numbers are absolutely 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.120 correct. I mean, other than CO2 emissions, it's 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.939 also the second largest consumer of water worldwide. 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:19.300 It pollutes the oceans with microplastics. Textile 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:23.399 dying itself is also a large polluter of water. 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:25.819 I think it's also the second largest. And then 00:08:25.819 --> 00:08:27.759 that also means that, you know, a lot of our 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:30.620 textiles are actually dumped each year into landfills 00:08:30.620 --> 00:08:34.940 or burnt. And so 85 % of all textiles are dumped 00:08:34.940 --> 00:08:37.100 each year or something like that. It's quite 00:08:37.100 --> 00:08:39.940 important to kind of consider all of this and 00:08:39.940 --> 00:08:43.039 generally kind of think about what does sustainable 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.179 fashion mean. I do think it's unfair to kind 00:08:46.179 --> 00:08:48.799 of place the entire burden on individuals. So 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.259 it's not, as you mentioned, there's, you know, 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.059 a lot of textiles being produced and as I mentioned 00:08:54.059 --> 00:08:56.440 actually when it comes to things changing so 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:57.779 I remember when I was at university I did a minor 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:00.860 in business management and part of a supply chain 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:04.600 management course I studied how amazing the supply 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:08.259 chain of Zara was because it can design produce 00:09:08.259 --> 00:09:10.899 and like you know get to the point of sales the 00:09:10.899 --> 00:09:15.240 lines within two weeks and so The fact that suddenly 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.419 we used to produce two fashion lines per year, 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:20.639 so autumn, winter, and summer is spring, summer, 00:09:21.100 --> 00:09:23.919 and suddenly we can start producing 50 lines 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:26.600 per week was an amazing thing from a supply chain 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.639 perspective, right? And we studied that. I remember 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:30.559 I wrote an assignment about how amazing they 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.539 do this and how they cut the lines and all of 00:09:33.539 --> 00:09:37.399 that. And then fast forward five, whatever, years 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.700 later when I was doing my PhD and looking at 00:09:39.700 --> 00:09:41.460 climate, I was like, oh my God, that's horrific. 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:44.679 The fact that we do this is horrible. And whilst 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:46.720 it's amazing from a supply chain perspective, 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:48.940 it's horrible from a climate perspective. And 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:51.080 we don't need that many clothes. Again, I think 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:52.799 that kind of points back to what I was saying 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.059 about, you know, things do change. And I've seen 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:57.279 that based on just my studies from undergrad 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:01.399 to PhD. So that's why I'm optimistic. And you 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:03.480 quoted a figure a few minutes ago, which is quite 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.320 jaw dropping, actually, you said something, I 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.620 think. you'll correct me again, I'm sure, but 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.440 85 % of textiles end up in landfill. Is that 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.519 85 % of textiles, because there is that overproduction 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:17.000 that you've talked about, is that the textiles 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.419 that are being overproduced or is that the material, 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:21.519 are those the materials that are being bought, 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.059 consumed and then discarded, or is that everything? 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.440 Everything, I think it includes everything. Yes, 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.419 yeah. So just come back to that sustainability. 00:10:30.970 --> 00:10:34.009 You're right, it can't just be up to the individuals, 00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:37.350 but it's not as simple. I think about my daughter, 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:40.490 who's a university student, and she shops in 00:10:40.490 --> 00:10:43.990 charity shops. She does the vintage. She doesn't 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:47.669 buy new. She buys secondhand, recycled, or she's 00:10:47.669 --> 00:10:50.950 either in my wardrobe, actually. But is it as 00:10:50.950 --> 00:10:55.970 simple as organic? Because there are many sustainable 00:10:55.970 --> 00:10:59.340 alternatives, aren't there? Organic. vegan, renting, 00:10:59.620 --> 00:11:01.600 swapping, all of those issues around that. I 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:03.779 mean, is that something you also look at? Does 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.320 that make a difference? It definitely makes a 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.700 difference. Again, I can't remember the exact 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:11.600 statistic, but it was something like if you were 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.879 to keep your clothes for an extra six months 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.440 and actually wear them, you instantly decrease 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.539 the environmental impact by, let's say, 25%. 00:11:19.539 --> 00:11:21.919 I'll get the exact statistic and send that to 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:24.440 you. But so something as simple as Genuinely 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:26.419 maintaining your clothes and, you know, wearing 00:11:26.419 --> 00:11:29.399 them can have a massive difference. Doing everything 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.259 you just mentioned makes a massive difference. 00:11:32.779 --> 00:11:35.639 Washing clothes in a way where, so not under 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.419 extreme heat, so under colder water decreases 00:11:39.419 --> 00:11:41.539 the amount of microplastics that goes into the 00:11:41.539 --> 00:11:44.480 ocean. So there are things that as individuals 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.350 we can do. And the more we do these things, we 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:51.610 also send more of a signal to industry and government 00:11:51.610 --> 00:11:53.029 that we need that, you know, this is something 00:11:53.029 --> 00:11:56.029 we care about. And so we need you to act upon 00:11:56.029 --> 00:11:58.309 it. The only reason I said it's a bit unfair 00:11:58.309 --> 00:12:01.929 to kind of put the whole burden on individuals 00:12:01.929 --> 00:12:04.649 is because there's a lot of information. And 00:12:04.649 --> 00:12:08.389 so, I mean, I think about that and anything else 00:12:08.389 --> 00:12:10.889 that I buy that I'm not really, you know, an 00:12:10.889 --> 00:12:14.070 expert in or know much about. So, for example, 00:12:14.429 --> 00:12:17.629 skincare. I try to look into that and I mean, 00:12:17.629 --> 00:12:19.610 I'm a scientist, I'm a researcher, and I still 00:12:19.610 --> 00:12:21.769 get overloaded with so much information. It's 00:12:21.769 --> 00:12:24.129 like you get someone telling you, you know, this 00:12:24.129 --> 00:12:26.370 is absolutely so bad for your health. And then 00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:28.710 the second person says, you know, no, this, no, 00:12:28.730 --> 00:12:30.649 this is amazing for your health. And then it 00:12:30.649 --> 00:12:32.970 goes on and on, especially with social media. 00:12:33.409 --> 00:12:36.830 We cannot expect an, you know, an average consumer 00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:39.950 to not even average, you know, even someone that, 00:12:39.950 --> 00:12:42.379 you know, can actually do the research. to do 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:45.139 that research for apps for every single choice 00:12:45.139 --> 00:12:48.240 they make, right? Like it's too much. And so 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.799 it shouldn't really be that sustainability. I 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.580 mean, the aim, I think the goal that we need 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:55.799 to reach is that it shouldn't be the sustainability 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.440 is a luxury, but it's that it's the default. 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.120 And to do that, it needs to be a collaborative 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.620 thing between individuals, the consumers, basically 00:13:05.620 --> 00:13:09.289 policies and also industries. Everyone needs 00:13:09.289 --> 00:13:11.070 to kind of take their share of responsibility 00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:14.750 because no one specifically is exactly to blame, 00:13:14.769 --> 00:13:18.029 right? But if we all do our part, we're going 00:13:18.029 --> 00:13:21.490 to reach that goal where it's the default. It's 00:13:21.490 --> 00:13:24.610 not a luxury. It's not a luxury that you only 00:13:24.610 --> 00:13:28.769 do if you can afford to spend more or if you 00:13:28.769 --> 00:13:31.210 can afford extra couple of hours a week where 00:13:31.210 --> 00:13:33.389 you're doing this research. It should be something 00:13:33.389 --> 00:13:36.309 that's easily accessible and affordable. Generally, 00:13:36.330 --> 00:13:39.070 at the moment, if you want to buy something new 00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:41.830 that's sustainable, there is a price, isn't there? 00:13:41.929 --> 00:13:43.950 Do you think people, at the moment, you're relying 00:13:43.950 --> 00:13:47.809 on people wanting to pay more for something that's 00:13:47.809 --> 00:13:50.990 been sustainably and ethically produced, aren't 00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:53.870 you? Yeah, so it's definitely more expensive. 00:13:54.370 --> 00:13:57.330 I think there has been surveys where they asked 00:13:57.330 --> 00:13:59.990 if people are willing to pay the extra price 00:13:59.990 --> 00:14:02.490 for something more sustainable. And the surveys 00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:04.110 showed that, yes, there's a lot of people that 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:07.059 are willing to pay this extra price for something 00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:09.840 that's sustainable. So without industry being 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:11.779 extremely transparent and you know the right 00:14:11.779 --> 00:14:15.480 policies it's a bit hard to kind of justify paying 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.399 more because are you sure that this is actually 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.360 more sustainable because you will definitely 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.899 find you know some information out there that's 00:14:22.899 --> 00:14:25.679 saying it's not. And as I said like as an average 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.779 consumer I mean I don't have the time to kind 00:14:28.779 --> 00:14:31.600 of you know make sure that every every single 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.879 choice I make on a day -to -day basis is more 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.929 sustainable. And that's too much, right? And 00:14:37.929 --> 00:14:41.889 so that's why I think it's a collaborative thing 00:14:41.889 --> 00:14:44.129 that we need to do. And that's why I think it 00:14:44.129 --> 00:14:46.529 shouldn't be a luxury, it should be a default. 00:14:46.610 --> 00:14:49.490 And it's not that now, then that's fine. But 00:14:49.490 --> 00:14:51.870 that's what we should be working towards. Do 00:14:51.870 --> 00:14:55.190 you, in your view, do you think people, we're 00:14:55.190 --> 00:14:56.649 talking about the general public here, do you 00:14:56.649 --> 00:14:59.210 think people are prepared to change? Do you think 00:14:59.210 --> 00:15:02.590 people want to do the right thing? And do they 00:15:02.590 --> 00:15:07.600 care enough? I do think people care and I do 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:10.899 think people are prepared to change. But as I 00:15:10.899 --> 00:15:13.960 said, I think it's quite important for it to 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.820 be a collaborative thing. It's quite important 00:15:15.820 --> 00:15:18.519 to be involved in the process. It's quite important 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.139 for there to be transparency and trust. And sometimes 00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:27.299 I think industries think that they need to solve 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:29.259 the problem tomorrow and that's not the case, 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:31.639 right? We just need to know that you have a plan. 00:15:32.009 --> 00:15:35.289 and it's not perfect now, but it will be close 00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:39.990 to perfect at some point. It might not be perfect, 00:15:40.070 --> 00:15:42.409 but it's good enough for now. Having this flexibility 00:15:42.409 --> 00:15:45.730 where we're moving towards long -term robust 00:15:45.730 --> 00:15:48.990 models that are sustainable, whether it's from 00:15:48.990 --> 00:15:51.269 a business perspective or from a consumer perspective 00:15:51.269 --> 00:15:54.590 or from a policy perspective, is quite important. 00:15:55.490 --> 00:15:58.409 as i said the reason i'm a lot of the reason 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:00.909 one of the reasons that i'm more optimistic about 00:16:00.909 --> 00:16:02.590 this is because a lot of people actually you 00:16:02.590 --> 00:16:04.230 know come and ask me questions they're like is 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:06.250 this actually you know more sustainable should 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:08.570 i be doing this or should i just like not do 00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:11.070 that because i've seen videos that say both to 00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:12.809 be very honest it's not that i always know the 00:16:12.809 --> 00:16:14.690 answer so sometimes i actually have to go i'm 00:16:14.690 --> 00:16:17.190 like i actually don't know and fashion was one 00:16:17.190 --> 00:16:20.750 of those things where i didn't know I mean, as 00:16:20.750 --> 00:16:23.110 you mentioned in my bio, it's not really my expertise, 00:16:23.169 --> 00:16:25.950 like the fashion part. The environmental impact 00:16:25.950 --> 00:16:29.549 part is my expertise, but its application into 00:16:29.549 --> 00:16:32.409 fashion is not something that I've done from 00:16:32.409 --> 00:16:35.529 a purely research perspective. It wasn't my PhD, 00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:37.929 but it was something that someone asked me. And 00:16:37.929 --> 00:16:39.769 then I also thought about it. And I was like, 00:16:40.070 --> 00:16:42.809 I actually don't know how bad this is. And I 00:16:42.809 --> 00:16:45.490 remember when I first saw the environmental impact 00:16:45.490 --> 00:16:49.200 statistics, I was like, oh my god, I mean, let's 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.120 say I'm working on aviation and it's like, you 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.759 know, two to four percent and everyone's so worried 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:55.919 about this. Why aren't people worried about that? 00:16:56.179 --> 00:16:59.879 And so I think people do care. I am getting a 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:02.159 lot more questions about this, both by the way, 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.140 both from an individual perspective and from 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.640 a business perspective and from a policy perspective. 00:17:06.980 --> 00:17:10.809 So. being a researcher at Imperial, you get to 00:17:10.809 --> 00:17:15.029 be quite close to the real world impact and contributing 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:18.990 to policies and business strategies. And so there's 00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:21.930 a lot more traction now than when I first started 00:17:21.930 --> 00:17:24.170 my PhD of people coming and asking us, they're 00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:25.849 like, can you please submit evidence on this? 00:17:25.930 --> 00:17:28.109 Can you please look into this for us? And should 00:17:28.109 --> 00:17:30.829 we bother with it? And how can we actually reach 00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:34.750 net zero and so on? So I think People are asking 00:17:34.750 --> 00:17:37.650 and people do care, both consumers and industries 00:17:37.650 --> 00:17:39.990 and governments for sure. It's just that there's 00:17:39.990 --> 00:17:42.029 a lot of information, as you say, out there and 00:17:42.029 --> 00:17:44.309 it's a matter of getting through that information 00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:47.589 and working out the truth isn't there. And as 00:17:47.589 --> 00:17:50.049 you say, you're a scientist and you've struggled 00:17:50.049 --> 00:17:53.529 to reach that information. So we're facing a 00:17:53.529 --> 00:17:56.289 climate crisis. In terms of energy, let's talk 00:17:56.289 --> 00:17:58.609 about energy for a moment. What do you think 00:17:58.609 --> 00:18:01.710 the picture looks like in the UK? Do you think 00:18:01.710 --> 00:18:04.410 we're doing enough? to tackle climate crisis 00:18:04.410 --> 00:18:06.710 because we have a 2050 target for clean energy 00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:09.650 and zero carbon. Do you think we're leading the 00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:11.390 world or do you think we're trailing behind? 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:13.230 Do you think we're on track? Because obviously 00:18:13.230 --> 00:18:15.990 we can't afford to stand still, can we? I think 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:19.309 the UK is a leader in terms of targets. So we 00:18:19.309 --> 00:18:22.650 have very, very strong targets for 2050. We have 00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:25.650 the Committee on Climate Change. So they've just 00:18:25.650 --> 00:18:29.640 published their latest budget. you know a lot 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.180 of really good progress in terms of decarbonizing 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:37.859 their energy demand so phasing out coal and investing 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.019 massively in renewables for example we've decreased 00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:44.619 our emissions by more than 40 percent compared 00:18:44.619 --> 00:18:48.140 to the 1990 levels but the first 40 percent is 00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:50.440 probably the easy part because like we you know 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.839 phasing out coal already kind of gave a lot back 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:57.259 a lot of carbon budget back Whilst, yes, we have 00:18:57.259 --> 00:18:59.460 very ambitious targets and whilst, yes, we're 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.119 going in the right direction and, yes, there's 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:06.359 a lot of policy directions that I think are very 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.619 optimistic, we're not necessarily on track to 00:19:09.619 --> 00:19:13.940 meet them without bold coordinated action. And 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.700 so now is the time to kind of start doing the 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:18.960 things. We need to start building the plans to 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:20.920 produce our sustainable fuels. We need to start 00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.559 looking into how we're going to be doing our 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:25.660 energy storage. We need to start looking into 00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:28.119 what kind of infrastructure are we going to need 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.380 to electrify our lives, basically. We might not 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:33.039 get everything right the first time, and that's 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.819 fine, but the only way to kind of learn, there's 00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:38.420 a certain part of engineering, the only way where 00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:40.559 you learn is when you start doing it, and then 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.599 you're like, okay, no, actually I can do this 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:44.579 better the next time. And so I think we're at 00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.640 that stage where we need to start learning by 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.720 doing, because that also obviously decreases 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.009 the costs of things. And so the UK has the ability 00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:54.589 to be a leader in that, being a leader in the 00:19:54.589 --> 00:19:57.250 technologies and actually decreasing the costs. 00:19:57.750 --> 00:20:00.170 We do. We have that possibility. And we also 00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:02.170 have a lot of natural advantages, don't we, in 00:20:02.170 --> 00:20:04.930 the UK? Obviously, we can't rely on wind and 00:20:04.930 --> 00:20:07.730 we can't rely on sunshine, but we do have a lot 00:20:07.730 --> 00:20:10.289 of natural advantages, but challenges around 00:20:10.289 --> 00:20:14.789 connectivity, don't we, in this big conversation 00:20:14.789 --> 00:20:17.210 about where our power comes from and all the 00:20:17.210 --> 00:20:21.670 mixes, energy mixes. Just going to talk about 00:20:21.670 --> 00:20:24.589 that net zero or goal for net zero. Do you think 00:20:24.589 --> 00:20:26.789 we have the skills? Because that's the other 00:20:26.789 --> 00:20:29.910 big topic of conversation. You're a scientist 00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:32.710 and you've been working on this agenda. You've 00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:34.690 talked about how you're explaining it to your 00:20:34.690 --> 00:20:37.630 colleagues, your friends, your family. But do 00:20:37.630 --> 00:20:40.170 you think we have enough skills? Because do you 00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:42.150 think we have enough experience? And I'm talking 00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:45.130 about the practical skills as well, from whether 00:20:45.130 --> 00:20:47.970 it's fitting of heat pumps, which we haven't 00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:50.490 talked about, but it's all in that energy mix, 00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:53.890 to sourcing the right materials and whether that's 00:20:53.890 --> 00:20:56.069 the we're talking about sustainable fashion. 00:20:56.390 --> 00:20:59.970 Do you think we've got the skills and then the 00:20:59.970 --> 00:21:03.450 vision? I'm going to answer this with I don't 00:21:03.450 --> 00:21:06.190 know. And purely because this is something that 00:21:06.190 --> 00:21:08.349 I'm working on. The reason I say I don't know 00:21:08.349 --> 00:21:12.440 is because we actually haven't done enough. studies 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.339 to kind of you know sit down and be like okay 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:16.859 this is how many people we need for this this 00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:19.619 is how many people we need for that and the reason 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:21.480 i said i don't know it's not that you know do 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.940 we have enough enough skills it's that we really 00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:26.619 need to consider the retraining and reskilling 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:29.200 of the skills we already have because there is 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.900 a lot of overlap and i think people kind of you 00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:34.779 know forget about that they forget that we have 00:21:34.779 --> 00:21:37.579 a lot of overlaps like for example if we're talking 00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:40.279 about you know capturing co2 transporting it 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:43.279 and storing it We've built pipelines. We know 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:45.920 how to do that before, maybe not for CO2, but 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.099 we've done pipelines before, right? And so we 00:21:48.099 --> 00:21:51.500 can retrain and reskill people from the different 00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:53.940 industries that have done this to do that, other 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:57.119 than carbon dioxide, but also hydrogen. There's 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.799 a lot of hydrogen in our net zero strategies. 00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:03.960 Again, the storing of hydrogen, for example, 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.519 or the transporting of hydrogen, we haven't done 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:09.039 it for hydrogen specifically. to a large scale, 00:22:09.059 --> 00:22:11.859 but we've done it for other things. We've done 00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:14.299 it for natural gas, for example. So it's not 00:22:14.299 --> 00:22:17.940 just as simple as we need to find all these new 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:21.500 skills for what we're going to do. It's more 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:24.500 that, okay, we have those skills. We have X and 00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:27.299 Y and Z skills. How can we repurpose, retrain 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:30.440 and reskill or utilize those skills to make sure 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.880 that we don't lose them before the next generation 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.740 comes up? As well as that diversification of 00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:39.339 skills, there's quite a few skills, skilled people 00:22:39.339 --> 00:22:42.519 retiring, you know, that we've had that expertise 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:44.339 and they're going to disappear at some point. 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.019 Yeah. So I remember I did like a qualitative 00:22:47.019 --> 00:22:50.299 thing for nuclear power and the age of the workforce 00:22:50.299 --> 00:22:53.700 was, a lot of it was above 50. And so unless 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:57.259 we, unless we kind of, you know, we've lost the 00:22:57.259 --> 00:22:58.799 part in between because we weren't doing nuclear 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:01.220 power for a couple of decades properly. But then 00:23:01.220 --> 00:23:04.329 if those people choose to retire in the next 00:23:04.329 --> 00:23:07.569 five years and we don't have a plan to make sure 00:23:07.569 --> 00:23:11.849 that their expertise is moved down to the different 00:23:11.849 --> 00:23:14.309 generations or the upcoming generations, then 00:23:14.309 --> 00:23:18.069 we lose that skill set completely. And so I think 00:23:18.069 --> 00:23:20.210 the answer is not, yeah, as I mentioned, it's 00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:23.230 not as simple as we're going to be doing this 00:23:23.230 --> 00:23:25.630 massive transition and we need all these new 00:23:25.630 --> 00:23:27.250 skills because that's not true. We don't need 00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:29.589 all these new skills. we're going to need some 00:23:29.589 --> 00:23:32.130 new skills yes and we're going we need to make 00:23:32.130 --> 00:23:34.910 sure that we get those but also we're going to 00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:37.130 have a lot of skills already at hand that we 00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:39.829 can retrain and repurpose and re -skill and so 00:23:39.829 --> 00:23:42.490 doing this doing this at a large scale is quite 00:23:42.490 --> 00:23:45.369 important and we actually just submitted evidence 00:23:45.369 --> 00:23:48.829 to the parliament on this and one of our researchers, 00:23:49.349 --> 00:23:51.269 so there was five of us at Imperial that submitted 00:23:51.269 --> 00:23:53.390 evidence on this and one of, and we got called 00:23:53.390 --> 00:23:55.390 into the Parliament and one of our, one of the 00:23:55.390 --> 00:23:57.730 researchers went to Parliament to kind of present 00:23:57.730 --> 00:24:00.130 that research. So also something I'm working 00:24:00.130 --> 00:24:03.029 on, just measuring the socio -economic impact 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:06.009 and you know what kind of jobs do we need and 00:24:06.009 --> 00:24:09.450 under what categories. I think we need to go 00:24:09.450 --> 00:24:12.730 a step further and you know map the skills we 00:24:12.730 --> 00:24:15.420 already have, how are we going to kind of Use 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:18.099 them in the in this transition what skills can 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:20.819 we might we be losing and how can we maintain 00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:24.259 this and just have a plan basically on that and 00:24:24.259 --> 00:24:27.380 i think that's why the. Again an optimistic thing 00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.920 that's the reason the parliament asked for evidence 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.480 on this so we're definitely going the right direction 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.640 and hopefully you know. And at some point we're 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.220 going to have that plan, but it's something we 00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:38.559 need to do for sure. Fantastic. And that is fascinating 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:40.400 work. And particularly when you talk about nuclear, 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.339 because that's a very good example of that as 00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:45.980 we revisit nuclear, the skills, let's grab that 00:24:45.980 --> 00:24:49.680 before they do disappear. Interesting age demographic 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:54.420 there as well. So how does your work and your 00:24:54.420 --> 00:24:58.559 passion for the environment impact your own lifestyle? 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:01.410 I kind of think about the different things I 00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:04.150 buy or how I travel or where my energy comes 00:25:04.150 --> 00:25:07.890 from. I also start thinking about, okay, what's 00:25:07.890 --> 00:25:10.549 going on with the energy transition in Egypt, 00:25:10.569 --> 00:25:13.009 for example, or I grew up in Kuwait, so I think 00:25:13.009 --> 00:25:16.329 about that as well and just any country I visit. 00:25:16.970 --> 00:25:19.170 And what's really interesting about this, I think, 00:25:19.730 --> 00:25:24.480 is something that also affects my research. For 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:26.039 example, fashion was something that's not in 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:28.039 my research, but it's something that I looked 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:29.640 into because I was like, okay, this is something 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:33.460 I buy. You know what's going on there. Whenever 00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:35.579 I travel and then looking at it from a global 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:37.920 perspective and realizing, you know, there's. 00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:40.210 there's different countries involved in this 00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:42.509 we all need to reach net zero we all need to 00:25:42.509 --> 00:25:45.009 you know contribute to the to the to minimizing 00:25:45.009 --> 00:25:47.430 our carbon budget and all of these countries 00:25:47.430 --> 00:25:50.230 have different resources and so they're all actually 00:25:50.230 --> 00:25:52.289 going to reach their net zero targets and in 00:25:52.289 --> 00:25:54.589 different ways is also quite cool and impressive 00:25:54.589 --> 00:25:56.869 and again it reflects in my research when i think 00:25:56.869 --> 00:25:59.960 about things because Then I'm like, okay, you 00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:01.740 know, there's no silver bullet. And I always 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.119 say this, I think in any interview I've ever 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:06.680 been on, I always say, you know, there's no silver 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:10.019 bullet. And the more I work on different technologies, 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:13.480 the more I realize there isn't a field that I've 00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:16.319 been in so far where I'm like, if we do this 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.779 one technology, we'll be able to solve that whole 00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.299 field. There is just, you know, I haven't come 00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:24.039 across that yet. And so it definitely shapes. 00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:26.839 how I live both from a personal perspective, 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:28.960 but also from a research perspective. And they 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.160 both blend in, which is really nice. And they 00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:33.680 give me ideas. So my personal perspective also, 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:36.680 you know, gives me ideas with my research perspective. 00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:40.019 But as I mentioned, it's not always easy to kind 00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:43.380 of live sustainably, fully, and it's not always 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:46.420 affordable. And so I try to kind of focus on 00:26:46.420 --> 00:26:49.319 the most meaningful things I can do because, 00:26:49.819 --> 00:26:51.579 you know, no individual can solve this alone. 00:26:51.579 --> 00:26:53.599 And that's why I think throughout the whole interview, 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.069 I said, collaborating a lot. And I said, you 00:26:56.069 --> 00:26:58.289 know, we used to do this together a lot. You 00:26:58.289 --> 00:27:00.690 do talk a lot about community, community of knowledge. 00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:02.890 You talk about the global. If we can all just 00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:05.369 talk, it's not just one person's responsibility, 00:27:05.410 --> 00:27:06.890 whether it's government, whether it's business, 00:27:06.930 --> 00:27:09.430 whether it's all of us. You talk a lot about 00:27:09.430 --> 00:27:12.470 that. In terms of your work, one final question 00:27:12.470 --> 00:27:15.390 I do have for you is that you've achieved a huge 00:27:15.390 --> 00:27:18.750 amount already. You've just talked about papers 00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:21.549 being submitted to Parliament. What are you working 00:27:21.549 --> 00:27:24.680 on now? What next? What's the next big thing 00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.180 for you and your research? As I mentioned, my 00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:28.980 background is in chemical engineering, and now 00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:31.319 I work both between chemical engineering and 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.980 the Centre for Environmental Policy. My PhD was 00:27:33.980 --> 00:27:38.240 quite technical. I was in the lab for like 10 00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:41.039 or more hours every day, just, you know, doing 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.779 in front of my reactor, doing a lot of analysis. 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:48.160 And what I'm doing now is a lot more at the so 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.900 it's it's research and then but also the interface 00:27:50.900 --> 00:27:54.259 between policy and action just kind of how do 00:27:54.259 --> 00:27:58.059 we move everything i've done or know into real 00:27:58.059 --> 00:28:00.920 world impact and i really like this quote that 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.400 the institute of molecular science and engineering 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.680 at imperial uses i'm sorry if i say it wrong 00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:09.259 but it was something along the lines of you know 00:28:09.259 --> 00:28:12.019 it's not enough to make uh simple molecules we 00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:15.349 must make them work in a complex world That's 00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:17.650 kind of where I'm at now and looking at it also 00:28:17.650 --> 00:28:20.789 from a global perspective, from a systems perspective, 00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:23.910 zooming out a bit. So maybe it's not perfect 00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:27.789 in every part of the chain, but it's good enough. 00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:31.309 And so how does that work from a systems perspective 00:28:31.309 --> 00:28:33.990 and a global perspective? So making it work, 00:28:34.630 --> 00:28:37.049 making what you're working on, making it work. 00:28:37.150 --> 00:28:39.009 Because throughout the interview, you have talked 00:28:39.009 --> 00:28:40.730 as well as talking about the community and that 00:28:40.730 --> 00:28:43.710 whole global action. You have said a couple of 00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:48.200 times, having a plan. So it's turning that policy 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.599 and all that work into that plan and making it 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.839 make change. You have been absolutely a perfect 00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:57.660 guest. Thank you very much, Nadeem. There can 00:28:57.660 --> 00:28:59.880 be no doubt that climate change is the biggest 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:02.299 challenge of our time. Today, we must reduce 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:04.619 greenhouse gas emissions to slow global warming. 00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:07.579 Today, we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our 00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:10.000 lifestyles to current and future impacts of climate 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.730 change. Today we must use our collective wisdom 00:29:12.730 --> 00:29:15.690 to deliver on our climate commitments. Today 00:29:15.690 --> 00:29:18.849 we work for tomorrow's world. Please don't forget 00:29:18.849 --> 00:29:21.029 to subscribe to our podcast channels and tell 00:29:21.029 --> 00:29:23.170 us what you think and would always be interested 00:29:23.170 --> 00:29:27.089 in your ideas. Email us at podcast at salixfinance 00:29:27.089 --> 00:29:32.150 .co .uk. Thank you again to Nadine Mustafa for 00:29:32.150 --> 00:29:34.750 joining us today. Thank you. Thank you so much 00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:38.349 for having me. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:29:38.349 --> 00:29:42.700 Dialogue. a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:29:42.700 --> 00:29:46.039 about our work and to find more content, please 00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:50.660 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.