WEBVTT 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:10.509 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.509 --> 00:00:13.689 from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate 00:00:13.689 --> 00:00:16.489 Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to 00:00:16.489 --> 00:00:19.269 the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker, 00:00:19.390 --> 00:00:21.570 and I believe that the best way to communicate 00:00:21.570 --> 00:00:24.070 a message is by being passionate about what you 00:00:24.070 --> 00:00:26.730 are talking about. Through that passion, I believe 00:00:26.730 --> 00:00:29.710 you take people with you and create action using 00:00:29.710 --> 00:00:32.590 your influence to make change and make a difference. 00:00:32.890 --> 00:00:36.859 Our task today is to get all of us. to net zero. 00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:40.780 My guest today is award -winning artist Catherine 00:00:40.780 --> 00:00:43.740 Boland. Catherine is a multidisciplinary artist 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:46.880 based on Australia's south coast, working across 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:50.079 painting, photography and digital media. She 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:52.380 explores the beauty and fragility of the natural 00:00:52.380 --> 00:00:56.259 world. Since the devastating 2019 -2020 Australian 00:00:56.259 --> 00:00:59.399 bushfires that impacted her region, Catherine's 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.479 work has reflected on humanity's evolving relationship 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:05.560 with nature and the ecological crisis we face. 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:08.430 Her recent explorations incorporate emerging 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:11.870 technologies to convey environmental themes aiming 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:14.750 to deepen our connection with the earth and inspire 00:01:14.750 --> 00:01:18.170 greater environmental responsibility. Her work 00:01:18.170 --> 00:01:21.109 has featured in significant global forums, including 00:01:21.109 --> 00:01:24.090 the Digital Art for Climate Art Award at the 00:01:24.090 --> 00:01:27.569 2021 United Nations Climate Conference in Glasgow 00:01:27.569 --> 00:01:31.030 and the Art Speaks Out exhibitions at the 2022, 00:01:31.530 --> 00:01:35.700 23 and 24 United Nations. climate conference 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:39.500 in Egypt, Dubai and Azerbaijan, respectively. 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:43.840 In late 2023, Catherine's work, Fireflower, I 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.500 can't wait to hear about this, created with fire 00:01:46.500 --> 00:01:49.760 itself, achieved global recognition when it was 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.900 presented by the Australian Prime Minister as 00:01:51.900 --> 00:01:54.980 a gift to the then President Joe Biden at the 00:01:54.980 --> 00:01:57.560 White House during an official visit to Washington. 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.819 So welcome to Catherine. Thank you very much 00:02:00.819 --> 00:02:04.040 for coming along. And I cannot wait to... start 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.219 this conversation. Thank you for having me, Hannah. 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:10.900 Now, Catherine, you emigrated from the United 00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:13.580 Kingdom. You're originally from the UK, which 00:02:13.580 --> 00:02:15.740 is where we are. And just for everybody listening, 00:02:16.099 --> 00:02:18.849 Catherine, we're currently it's around. 10 a 00:02:18.849 --> 00:02:21.930 .m. here in our time, and Catherine is having 00:02:21.930 --> 00:02:24.349 this call. Catherine is in Australia, and I think 00:02:24.349 --> 00:02:26.509 it's around 9 o 'clock at night there, or what 00:02:26.509 --> 00:02:31.050 time? It's just after 7 p .m. Just after 7, okay. 00:02:31.349 --> 00:02:34.750 So you're originally from the UK, and you emigrated 00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:37.330 to Australia aged four. And can you tell us a 00:02:37.330 --> 00:02:39.729 little bit about that, about that emigration 00:02:39.729 --> 00:02:42.969 and then moving and then the focus and your development 00:02:42.969 --> 00:02:46.819 as an artist? And has your love of arts always 00:02:46.819 --> 00:02:48.680 been there as something that's evolved? I was 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:51.960 four years old, as you mentioned, and my parents 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:56.580 came to Australia as 10 -pound poms. So it was 00:02:56.580 --> 00:03:02.099 assisted passage. So I think my mum and dad were 00:03:02.099 --> 00:03:06.740 about 30 years old or 32 years old, and they 00:03:06.740 --> 00:03:10.780 decided that they were choosing between Australia, 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:16.919 New Zealand or Canada. and they chose Australia. 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:20.819 So we came by ship. It was a six -week voyage, 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:23.960 which I don't remember, except that I was being 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.360 told I was very, very sick on the way over and 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:29.759 nearly had to be hospitalised. But, yeah, so 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:32.680 we arrived in Melbourne and settled in Melbourne. 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.000 And you ended up, you obviously educated over 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.120 there in Australia and you ended up going to 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:45.060 art school and you had quite an interesting, 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.419 you know, I've been reading about your experience 00:03:47.419 --> 00:03:49.340 at art school because you dropped out, didn't 00:03:49.340 --> 00:03:53.219 you? You found going to art school a little bit 00:03:53.219 --> 00:03:55.759 disconcerting, didn't you? What's the journey 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:59.229 there with your art education? Yes, I went to 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:02.590 art school in the 70s and at that time there 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:05.870 was quite a large alternative lifestyle movement 00:04:05.870 --> 00:04:09.409 happening in Australia and possibly globally, 00:04:09.509 --> 00:04:13.990 I don't know. So I was doing at that time graphic 00:04:13.990 --> 00:04:16.569 art and design and it was quite commercial and 00:04:16.569 --> 00:04:19.910 I was at the same time reading books like Shoemaker's 00:04:19.910 --> 00:04:23.230 Small is Beautiful. grassroots magazines and 00:04:23.230 --> 00:04:26.410 earth garden magazines, and it just didn't fit 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:32.550 with my burgeoning feelings about the world. 00:04:32.790 --> 00:04:38.529 So, yeah, I dropped out and became a hippie in 00:04:38.529 --> 00:04:43.470 the bush. Yes. So you were at art school, what? 00:04:43.689 --> 00:04:45.850 for about a year and you decided it wasn't for 00:04:45.850 --> 00:04:48.829 you? About 18 months, yes, before I dropped out, 00:04:48.889 --> 00:04:51.310 yes. And was it at that point that you established 00:04:51.310 --> 00:04:53.470 your studio in the bush because you still have 00:04:53.470 --> 00:04:56.269 a studio in the bush? No, it took us quite a 00:04:56.269 --> 00:05:02.350 while. I met my husband and we spent at least 00:05:02.350 --> 00:05:05.550 two or three years earning money to buy a block 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:10.129 of land in the bush. So we eventually saved enough 00:05:10.129 --> 00:05:14.170 money to buy 120 acres. on the far south coast 00:05:14.170 --> 00:05:17.689 of New South Wales and with just 100 acres of 00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:21.129 bush with nothing on it. So we virtually had 00:05:21.129 --> 00:05:24.850 to, you know, start from scratch and do everything 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:27.589 ourselves. And that in itself was quite creative 00:05:27.589 --> 00:05:32.029 because I was, you know, weaving and spinning 00:05:32.029 --> 00:05:36.370 wool and dyeing wool and making pots out of clay 00:05:36.370 --> 00:05:40.550 and making macrame and all that sort of stuff. 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:45.500 Very creative. Exactly. And I want to speak to 00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:47.439 you about that in a moment, about that use of 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.100 those kind of objects like sticks and stones 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:53.819 and wool and that kind of that recycling of those 00:05:53.819 --> 00:05:57.300 materials. But let's turn for a moment to look 00:05:57.300 --> 00:06:00.079 at climate change because we're facing massive 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.980 challenges as we face climate change. And Australia, 00:06:04.180 --> 00:06:07.519 just like the UK, is committed to net zero emissions 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:12.029 by 2050. and a target to reduce emissions by 00:06:12.029 --> 00:06:19.589 43%, I think, below 2005 levels by 2030. Now, 00:06:19.750 --> 00:06:25.069 we're facing climate change, we're facing inequality, 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:28.089 pandemics, resource pressures, so it's not good 00:06:28.089 --> 00:06:31.930 news. What role do you think the arts have in 00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:35.189 getting us focused on some of these issues and 00:06:35.189 --> 00:06:39.220 creating engagement? Yes, I really believe that 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:43.120 the arts can play a big role, especially in raising 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.519 awareness and getting people engaged with the 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:49.180 climate crisis. I mean, data and statistics are 00:06:49.180 --> 00:06:52.240 crucial, but art has this amazing ability to 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:56.120 communicate complex issues in a way that's emotional 00:06:56.120 --> 00:07:00.459 and easy to connect with. And it can make something 00:07:00.459 --> 00:07:02.759 like climate change feel more real and personal 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:05.420 rather than just looking at graphs and pie charts. 00:07:06.670 --> 00:07:09.230 So as an artist, you can graphically show the 00:07:09.230 --> 00:07:12.670 urgency of a situation and you can use your art 00:07:12.670 --> 00:07:15.449 to challenge people's views, which might encourage, 00:07:15.649 --> 00:07:18.689 hopefully, someone to act. And it's not just 00:07:18.689 --> 00:07:20.850 about climate. Art can open up space for talking 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:23.709 about a whole range of issues. So it can spark 00:07:23.709 --> 00:07:27.649 empathy, it can get people talking, and it can 00:07:27.649 --> 00:07:29.990 help us think about choices we make and our impact 00:07:29.990 --> 00:07:32.550 on the world. So, yeah, I really think that art 00:07:32.550 --> 00:07:35.850 can be a real catalyst for change. And how much 00:07:35.850 --> 00:07:38.730 do you think your own environment, because you 00:07:38.730 --> 00:07:43.069 haven't just been interested in climate change 00:07:43.069 --> 00:07:44.750 and what's happening to our planet because you've 00:07:44.750 --> 00:07:46.990 talked just for a moment ago about the kind of 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:49.250 materials and the resources that you've used 00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:53.050 in your work and you've steered away from the 00:07:53.050 --> 00:07:56.129 more traditional oil paint maybe and canvas, 00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:58.610 et cetera, and using a lot of other kind of, 00:07:58.610 --> 00:08:03.889 whether it's dirt, mud, wool, as you say. wood 00:08:03.889 --> 00:08:06.829 a lot of wood um and you're you're burning a 00:08:06.829 --> 00:08:10.790 lot of um your work as well you use quite powerful 00:08:10.790 --> 00:08:13.410 blow torches don't you i've seen those images 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:17.709 in the studio um how how much do you think it's 00:08:17.709 --> 00:08:24.389 important to as an artist to to care about your 00:08:24.389 --> 00:08:27.569 immediate environment because you've talked a 00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:31.410 lot about the fires around your studio because 00:08:31.410 --> 00:08:34.600 your area was much impacted by those bushfires. 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:36.960 And in fact, I think you've been quoted as saying, 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.019 we didn't see the blue sky for six weeks. Well, 00:08:41.139 --> 00:08:43.299 when I think about where you live and for our 00:08:43.299 --> 00:08:45.399 listeners, you do live in one of the most beautiful 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:49.639 parts of the planet. It's Merambula Lake. You 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.399 overlook that area and it's incredibly beautiful, 00:08:52.419 --> 00:08:57.440 known for its beautiful sky and incredible wildlife 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:01.159 and birds. Tell me about that experience and 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:05.960 how that impacted your work. Well, I've always 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.539 considered myself a landscape artist. So, yeah, 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:12.279 I've always been inspired by my surrounding environment. 00:09:12.340 --> 00:09:15.779 But those fires, the Black Summer fires, which 00:09:15.779 --> 00:09:18.980 were five years ago now, were a huge turning 00:09:18.980 --> 00:09:22.700 point in my art practice. And I think seeing 00:09:22.700 --> 00:09:25.419 that destruction up close, it really shook me. 00:09:26.460 --> 00:09:29.240 And I don't think I've recovered yet, actually. 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:32.080 And they call them the forever fires because 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:35.480 they burned for six weeks and that just never 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.279 seemed to end. They just seemed to go on and 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.720 on. And it's estimated that three billion native 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.240 animals perished in those fires and that the 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:49.440 area burnt was the size of Syria. So that really 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.759 hit home just how urgent the climate crisis is. 00:09:54.669 --> 00:09:58.710 After the fires, I just wanted to do something 00:09:58.710 --> 00:10:02.230 with my art to raise awareness. And I remember 00:10:02.230 --> 00:10:04.470 saying to my sister at the time during the fires, 00:10:04.669 --> 00:10:07.990 this is what I'm going to do. From now on, I'm 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:10.210 going to use my art to try and raise awareness 00:10:10.210 --> 00:10:13.549 about climate change. So I just poured all that 00:10:13.549 --> 00:10:17.169 shock and despair into my work. And as you mentioned, 00:10:17.309 --> 00:10:22.659 I even used fire itself to make art. So that 00:10:22.659 --> 00:10:26.399 meant burning pieces, painting and burning timber 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:30.440 and using pyrographic tools like hot wires to 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:36.679 burn into the timber itself. Yeah, in a way that 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:40.519 was therapeutic, I suppose, as well. And a lot 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.480 of that work, it's beautiful. I've looked extensively 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.200 at your work, mainly obviously through online, 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:50.200 and a lot of it has a botanical feel. But certainly 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:52.559 after the fires, you've got the titles like, 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:55.240 I think it's While the World Burns, Burnt Orange, 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:59.120 Decadence. They're quite haunting. I mean, they're 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.519 very haunting works, aren't they? The Fireground. 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:05.700 They are very haunting works, yes. And I think 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:11.240 that's what I want to do. I want my work to celebrate 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.340 the beauty of the natural world, but also there's 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:18.379 an underlying sense of despair in the work. As 00:11:18.379 --> 00:11:21.860 time goes on, the more I'm confronted with the 00:11:21.860 --> 00:11:23.500 environmental destruction we're facing, it's 00:11:23.500 --> 00:11:26.179 not getting better, it's getting worse. So I 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:28.000 see all this natural beauty around me in the 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:29.960 world and I can't help but think about what will 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:33.240 be lost if we don't act to protect it. So I am 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:36.139 actually a bit sneaky. I don't want to turn people 00:11:36.139 --> 00:11:38.600 off with images of burnt koalas or oil slicks 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:41.659 or outright disaster. And I don't want people 00:11:41.659 --> 00:11:44.879 to look away in horror. So I try and lure people 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:47.539 in with something visually striking and beautiful 00:11:47.539 --> 00:11:49.960 and then they get hit with the underlying message 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.039 about climate change or plastic pollution or 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.500 textile waste or whatever concept I'm trying 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:57.129 to communicate. Exactly. Is that what happened 00:11:57.129 --> 00:12:01.350 with the fire flower, number eight, a work of 00:12:01.350 --> 00:12:04.049 art that went over to the White House? Tell me 00:12:04.049 --> 00:12:08.009 about that. That piece was from a series that 00:12:08.009 --> 00:12:12.950 was actually from a series previous to the Black 00:12:12.950 --> 00:12:16.129 Summer fires that happened five years ago. And 00:12:16.129 --> 00:12:19.309 that work was in response to that. So it's an 00:12:19.309 --> 00:12:22.330 abstract looking flower on a black background 00:12:22.330 --> 00:12:26.330 and the black background represents charred landscape, 00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:31.389 the burnt bush. And the flower itself actually, 00:12:31.429 --> 00:12:35.450 it's talking about resilience because in Australia, 00:12:35.450 --> 00:12:37.690 I don't know if you know, but our bushland is 00:12:37.690 --> 00:12:45.429 incredibly resilient and it's evolved to thrive 00:12:45.429 --> 00:12:49.649 and survive after bushfire. So in a way it's 00:12:49.649 --> 00:12:52.210 talking about the despair of the bushfires but 00:12:52.210 --> 00:12:57.250 also the resilience of the land afterwards. And 00:12:57.250 --> 00:13:02.049 it's, I mean, when I said before that I make 00:13:02.049 --> 00:13:06.210 beautiful work, and that's my thing, but that's 00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:08.649 not to say I don't make confronting work also. 00:13:08.730 --> 00:13:12.570 I made a video which was one of the videos that 00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:15.129 showed at the UN Climate Conference in Abidjan 00:13:15.129 --> 00:13:18.980 last year. and it's called Aquarium 2050, and 00:13:18.980 --> 00:13:25.899 it's a video featuring a future where humans 00:13:25.899 --> 00:13:29.240 are extinct and ocean life has disappeared, and 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:32.700 it's a derelict aquarium which stands as a haunting 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:36.840 metaphor for ecological collapse. But even so, 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:39.019 I must admit that even that bleak vision has 00:13:39.019 --> 00:13:42.139 an eerie kind of beauty to it. I love those pieces, 00:13:42.220 --> 00:13:45.360 the pack mentality. I love that series of pieces. 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:50.299 You mentioned the, let's go back for a moment 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:51.980 before we, because I do want to talk about the 00:13:51.980 --> 00:13:54.139 landscape that you have there in Australia and 00:13:54.139 --> 00:13:57.320 the arid, the semi -arid areas. But just let's 00:13:57.320 --> 00:13:59.379 go back to the White House for a moment. And 00:13:59.379 --> 00:14:03.600 because that pitch, that work of art. was given 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.620 by the Australian Prime Minister, wasn't it, 00:14:05.659 --> 00:14:08.899 to the then President Joe Biden of the United 00:14:08.899 --> 00:14:12.419 States. What did you know about that? I think 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:14.139 I read somewhere that your art dealer didn't 00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:17.940 tell you it was on its way. I knew absolutely 00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:21.220 nothing about that. I found out my sister happened 00:14:21.220 --> 00:14:25.460 to ring me and say, Kath, your artwork is on 00:14:25.460 --> 00:14:29.000 the news, on TV. And I said, no, no, you've got 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.179 that wrong. She said, turn it on, turn it on, 00:14:31.179 --> 00:14:34.679 turn it on. So I did. And I'd missed it, actually, 00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:37.259 so I had to go and sign up to this television 00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:38.879 station, which I never watched as commercial 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:43.299 because I only watch government news anyway. 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:46.980 So I turned, I recorded it, and there it was. 00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:50.720 And the gallery hadn't told me anything about 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.240 it. I knew nothing. That was the first I found 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.279 out about it. You were worried about something. 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:58.080 You had to probably go through quarantine. It 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.639 must have taken a bit of time to get that piece 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.100 of art over there or not. But the other shocking 00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:07.440 thing was that day I got a call from The Guardian 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:12.179 newspaper. So I had to actually give an interview 00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:15.120 for The Guardian newspaper, which is also quite 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.960 terrifying. But anyway. It got people talking 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:21.399 and did it do what you wanted it to do? It did, 00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:25.000 and because I was hoping that, I mean, in my 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.840 wildest dreams, I was hoping that possibly the 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.779 Australian Prime Minister giving that artwork 00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:35.919 to Joe Biden, there might have been some conversation 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.320 about climate change, I don't know. So anyway, 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.419 it was very exciting. I mean, it's pretty amazing, 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.620 isn't it, to have a piece of art there. Do you 00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:49.480 think it's hanging at the White House? Do you 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:55.919 think it's? No, it's probably rubbish now. We'll 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.580 move on from that. It's probably in the poster 00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:03.000 now. It might be in the archives, but it'll certainly 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.740 be coming out at some point. So just let's go 00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:11.360 back to the Australian landscape. And because 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.139 Australia, I think I've read somewhere, I will 00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:17.980 quote this statistic because statistics, as you 00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:19.279 say, are important as well, because they give 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.320 us a benchmark of where we are. But I read somewhere 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.809 that Nearly a third of Australian communities 00:16:25.809 --> 00:16:33.250 will be spending over... The temperatures will 00:16:33.250 --> 00:16:38.730 be significantly higher over 35 degrees C, and 00:16:38.730 --> 00:16:41.830 that's going to double each year by the time 00:16:41.830 --> 00:16:45.450 we get to 2050. And that's because you're already 00:16:45.450 --> 00:16:49.789 facing... You have semi -arid conditions. You've 00:16:49.789 --> 00:16:52.570 got a lot of, you know, it's very dry, isn't 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:57.409 it? So going back, yeah, sorry. Although since 00:16:57.409 --> 00:17:00.389 the bushfires, this area has had a lot of rain 00:17:00.389 --> 00:17:02.309 and, in fact, the climate has changed quite considerably. 00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:07.740 It's got quite humid and wet. And like at this 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.160 time of year, we don't experience, usually don't 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.539 experience such humidity. So the climate's all 00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:14.640 over the place. And are people talking about 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.180 that where you are now? I mean, do you find everybody 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:20.700 talking about it or do you still? Everybody talks 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:21.859 about the weather. Because we want people to 00:17:21.859 --> 00:17:24.759 talk about it, don't we? Yeah. Everybody's talking 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:27.819 about the weather. Yes. Yes. Because we've had 00:17:27.819 --> 00:17:31.039 horrific floods here recently. We just had a 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:37.450 cyclone up north. So it's just. One part of Australia 00:17:37.450 --> 00:17:40.150 there's bushfires raging and the other part there's 00:17:40.150 --> 00:17:46.589 floods and hurricanes. So it's a mess. I mean, 00:17:46.609 --> 00:17:50.490 I think that was always the case, but I think 00:17:50.490 --> 00:17:54.710 the frequency and the intensity of these extreme 00:17:54.710 --> 00:17:57.430 weather events, you know, are just increasing. 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.460 So going back to those politicians, you're doing 00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:04.819 what you can to raise awareness because it is 00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:08.000 all about getting people talking, making it accessible 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.759 as well. And that's one of the great joys of 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:14.019 art, isn't it? You can make it accessible to 00:18:14.019 --> 00:18:21.779 a lot of people in a way that people can perhaps... 00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:25.640 It's relatable. It's relatable, yes. You can 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.970 have, you can... affect people on an emotional 00:18:28.970 --> 00:18:33.509 level, which, as I was saying before, is much 00:18:33.509 --> 00:18:37.529 more powerful, I think, than even data and statistics. 00:18:38.049 --> 00:18:42.970 It gets people on that level and that's, I mean, 00:18:42.990 --> 00:18:45.109 I'm just trying to do what I can do because I 00:18:45.109 --> 00:18:47.809 just, after the bushfires, I just felt so helpless 00:18:47.809 --> 00:18:51.710 and I just felt, you know, what can I possibly 00:18:51.710 --> 00:18:54.230 do? And this is the only thing I could think 00:18:54.230 --> 00:18:56.740 of that I could possibly do. that could maybe 00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:00.319 make some tiny bit of difference or at least 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.480 make me feel that I'm doing something. So you 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.220 feel positive that you are doing something, although 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:10.160 I know art in general is a, you called it, well, 00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:13.259 you've quoted Brett rightly, haven't you, a difficult 00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:15.559 pleasure. It's a difficult pleasure, isn't it? 00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:19.420 That's a quote by Brett Whiteley, yes, the Australian 00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:21.779 artist Brett Whiteley, a difficult pleasure. 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.420 So, no, I think, I mean, since I've started, 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:29.299 My work's been put out there on an international 00:19:29.299 --> 00:19:32.900 level. I mean, I never ever dreamed that for 00:19:32.900 --> 00:19:37.319 a moment when I started making climate art, you 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.180 know, all those years ago. But that, you know, 00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:43.359 that just makes me want to keep going because 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:47.000 obviously it's having some impact, even if it's 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.759 only a small impact. Well, it seems to have had 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.319 quite a large impact if you've got the Australian 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.140 Prime Minister gifting a piece of your work to 00:19:56.140 --> 00:20:01.660 the President of the United States. So the difficult 00:20:01.660 --> 00:20:04.920 pleasure that you face and the fact that you 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.740 do feel positive and that you're making a difference. 00:20:06.859 --> 00:20:09.980 How do you feel when you see the politicians, 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.680 world leaders get around the table and talk about 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:15.299 this issue? And you've just said everybody's 00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:17.700 talking about the weather. Indeed, it's... in 00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:21.140 our news every day for all the wrong reasons. 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:25.200 And I mentioned earlier, the economy, it tends 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:31.059 to hit the people who can least afford to be 00:20:31.059 --> 00:20:34.220 hit. How does that make you feel when you look 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:36.500 at the news and you look at the debate going 00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:39.099 on and you look at the targets that are being 00:20:39.099 --> 00:20:40.720 set? I don't think there's enough being done 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:45.680 at all. I mean, it's... We need extreme measures 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.579 and, in fact, we're going to go backwards. I 00:20:48.579 --> 00:20:52.559 mean, Trump's latest, you know, when he's during 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.400 the campaign, he even mentioned it and he's mentioned 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.779 it afterwards and he's actually putting things 00:20:56.779 --> 00:21:00.740 in place with his drill baby drill comment. You 00:21:00.740 --> 00:21:04.200 know, he wants to, now he wants to log national 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.920 parks in America. It's, you know, there's just, 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.740 even in this country, we've got a Labor government. 00:21:12.809 --> 00:21:15.609 But they're not doing enough, I don't think. 00:21:15.690 --> 00:21:18.210 They're still opening, giving approval for coal 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:20.329 power stations to be opened in this country. 00:21:21.549 --> 00:21:24.450 There's still not enough being done to protect 00:21:24.450 --> 00:21:29.990 national parks and wildlife. So it's very frustrating 00:21:29.990 --> 00:21:34.329 as an artist and as a global citizen. So you 00:21:34.329 --> 00:21:37.470 see that and obviously business has a part to 00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:40.190 play and all of us have a part to play. And in 00:21:40.190 --> 00:21:42.670 your day -to -day life, Catherine, you mentioned 00:21:42.670 --> 00:21:45.609 your studio practices using a lot of recycled 00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:50.650 material. Can you talk to me a little bit about 00:21:50.650 --> 00:21:53.210 where does that go? I mean, are you going to 00:21:53.210 --> 00:21:56.769 continue? How careful are you with the practices 00:21:56.769 --> 00:22:01.640 and your lifestyle that you lead? involves digital 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.039 media, so I'm not using a lot of physical materials. 00:22:06.579 --> 00:22:11.380 So I'm thinking about, in a way, I've almost 00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:13.799 deliberately gone towards digital art because 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.759 I'm thinking about the bigger picture and how 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.740 I can reduce energy consumption and my work is 00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:24.079 mostly printed, which I try and get done in the 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:27.759 most sustainable way possible. The digital art 00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:31.319 I'm making is quite eco -friendly because it 00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:33.740 doesn't rely on traditional materials that can 00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:37.519 often have a big environmental footprint like 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.160 paints and solvents and canvases and other physical 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.880 resources, which can be wasteful or harmful to 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.059 produce and dispose of. So working digitally 00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:50.720 means I'm creating using pixels, not raw materials, 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.339 so there's a much smaller carbon footprint. And 00:22:54.339 --> 00:22:56.660 it gives me a way to explore environmental themes 00:22:56.660 --> 00:23:00.900 without contributing to the problem. I can experiment 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:06.359 endlessly without using up materials and it sort 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.680 of aligns with the messages in my work, especially 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:11.480 around sustainability and climate awareness. 00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:14.759 And that digital work grew, didn't it, Catherine, 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:16.900 during lockdown? I think I read you couldn't 00:23:16.900 --> 00:23:19.660 get to your studio. Yes, because I couldn't access 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:25.119 my studio. But I still wanted to make art, so 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:29.640 I had to find a way to make art which meant without 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:31.980 using physical materials and having a studio 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:35.839 to create the art in. And at that time I started 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:41.720 doing an advanced Photoshop course. So that taught 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.799 me, you know, how to use Photoshop. And then 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.900 AI started coming into play and I started experimenting 00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.190 with AI, which was fascinating. And then I started 00:23:53.190 --> 00:23:57.009 combining photography, so photographs of the 00:23:57.009 --> 00:24:01.309 landscape and environment I live in, and combining 00:24:01.309 --> 00:24:07.730 that with AI and combining those images in Photoshop. 00:24:07.730 --> 00:24:11.910 So it's quite a process that I go through. I've 00:24:11.910 --> 00:24:16.569 just started actually experimenting with another 00:24:16.569 --> 00:24:24.019 technology called scanography. With that, I bought 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:26.880 a little scanner. It's called a scanner. I don't 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:29.319 know if you know what a scanner is. No. You can 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.980 scan documents. It's something that scans documents. 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.400 Oh, yes. You can scan lots of other things. Okay. 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.400 You can scan things at a very high resolution 00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:43.279 so that you can actually blow them up quite large. 00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:46.440 So I've been actually scanning my secondhand 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:49.839 clothes and scanning the textile waste and fabric. 00:24:51.250 --> 00:24:54.230 and creating these images and designs on the 00:24:54.230 --> 00:24:59.210 scanner and then taking those images into Photoshop 00:24:59.210 --> 00:25:02.230 and digitally manipulating them. So that's what 00:25:02.230 --> 00:25:05.730 I'm doing. Gosh, that sounds fascinating. I can't 00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:08.170 wait to look out for that. I've got an exhibition 00:25:08.170 --> 00:25:11.430 coming up in Sydney called Threading Lightly 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:15.329 and it's with the Embroiders Guild of New South 00:25:15.329 --> 00:25:18.269 Wales and they've got this exhibition on textile 00:25:18.269 --> 00:25:21.859 art and they've asked me to put, work in in their 00:25:21.859 --> 00:25:24.400 exhibition coming up this summer coming up this 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.099 summer uh coming up in uh may in may quite soon 00:25:28.099 --> 00:25:32.240 okay so now one of your heroes is anson keifa 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:36.859 and um he said art is longing you never arrive 00:25:36.859 --> 00:25:39.559 but you keep going in the hope that you will 00:25:40.490 --> 00:25:43.190 Is that true for you, Catherine? What next for 00:25:43.190 --> 00:25:44.890 you in your life? You've just talked about that. 00:25:44.970 --> 00:25:48.430 That is so true. I mean, it's always, you're 00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:50.690 always after the Holy Grail as an artist. You 00:25:50.690 --> 00:25:52.930 know, it's the journey and it's the longing and 00:25:52.930 --> 00:25:55.430 you're constantly pursuing something that feels 00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:59.069 just out of reach and you always, the work you 00:25:59.069 --> 00:26:02.569 do, you're springboarding off that to thinking 00:26:02.569 --> 00:26:06.470 about the next work and it's, yeah, so I'm always 00:26:06.470 --> 00:26:10.169 exploring new ways to express my thoughts. but 00:26:10.169 --> 00:26:12.230 I know I'll never get there, never quite arrive. 00:26:12.609 --> 00:26:14.769 You'll never quite get there. There's always 00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:18.369 another journey, isn't there? Yeah, you'll keep 00:26:18.369 --> 00:26:22.049 going. There's always more to learn and create, 00:26:22.190 --> 00:26:25.369 so yeah. And in terms of you're over there in 00:26:25.369 --> 00:26:30.309 Australia, your world is your Easter, but your 00:26:30.309 --> 00:26:32.990 art is all over the world. In terms of the UK, 00:26:33.369 --> 00:26:36.430 do you visit the UK? And I know that you'd love 00:26:36.430 --> 00:26:39.799 to have a piece at the... at Tate Modern. Do 00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:44.099 you have ambitions for the UK? Look, I'm getting 00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:47.019 a bit old in the tooth. But, look, over the years 00:26:47.019 --> 00:26:52.059 I've come back to the UK many times. And, in 00:26:52.059 --> 00:26:55.039 fact, my parents, after we immigrated to Australia 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:59.980 in 1961, we actually moved back to the UK ten 00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:03.599 years later because my mum and dad got homesick 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:07.859 for England. Okay. And we lived there for 12 00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:10.059 months, but then we were back to Australia again. 00:27:10.180 --> 00:27:14.359 You went back, yes. But then I've been back and 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:16.619 forth quite a few times and I actually feel quite 00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:19.119 at home going back to the UK. There's something, 00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:22.960 I get off the plane and I feel at home. So I 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.339 feel at home here and I feel at home there. But, 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.759 yeah, I can't see myself having a major show 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:34.799 in the UK. I do sell my work through a UK -based, 00:27:35.609 --> 00:27:39.950 artist website called Degree Art. So if anyone 00:27:39.950 --> 00:27:42.529 is interested, they can check it out there. Super. 00:27:43.390 --> 00:27:46.069 And, of course, you know, my work, we're a global 00:27:46.069 --> 00:27:49.089 economy, so people can check out my website and 00:27:49.089 --> 00:27:52.609 all the things. Of course. And your work will 00:27:52.609 --> 00:27:55.009 continue to feature planet and climate. And I 00:27:55.009 --> 00:27:57.990 do love that quote, Kiefer, art is longing, you 00:27:57.990 --> 00:28:00.630 never arrive, but you keep going in the hope 00:28:00.630 --> 00:28:03.720 that you will. Catherine, thank you very much. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.200 Thank you for your time today. There can be no 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:10.359 doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge 00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:12.880 of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.599 gas emissions to slow global warming. Today, 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:18.539 we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles 00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:20.960 to current and future impacts of climate change. 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.259 Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:28:24.259 --> 00:28:26.920 on our climate commitments. Today, we work for 00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.460 tomorrow's world. Please don't forget to subscribe 00:28:29.460 --> 00:28:32.319 to our podcast channels and please do let us 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.380 know what you think and for any ideas as well. 00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:39.559 And email us at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.900 Thank you so much to Catherine for taking up 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:45.440 part of her evening to talk to us. It's our morning, 00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.019 but it's your evening to talk to us about your 00:28:48.019 --> 00:28:51.640 work and climate change and how your work is 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:55.549 impacted by everything that we, well. the biggest 00:28:55.549 --> 00:28:58.190 issue of our time. So thank you very much, Catherine. 00:28:58.670 --> 00:29:01.069 Thank you, Hannah. It's been a pleasure. Thank 00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:04.269 you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:29:04.269 --> 00:29:08.710 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:29:08.710 --> 00:29:12.150 about our work and to find more content, please 00:29:12.150 --> 00:29:16.450 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.