This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast
from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate
Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to
the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker,
and I believe that the best way to communicate
a message is by being passionate about what you
are talking about. Through that passion, I believe
you take people with you and create action using
your influence to make change and make a difference.
Our task today is to get all of us. to net zero.
My guest today is award -winning artist Catherine
Boland. Catherine is a multidisciplinary artist
based on Australia's south coast, working across
painting, photography and digital media. She
explores the beauty and fragility of the natural
world. Since the devastating 2019 -2020 Australian
bushfires that impacted her region, Catherine's
work has reflected on humanity's evolving relationship
with nature and the ecological crisis we face.
Her recent explorations incorporate emerging
technologies to convey environmental themes aiming
to deepen our connection with the earth and inspire
greater environmental responsibility. Her work
has featured in significant global forums, including
the Digital Art for Climate Art Award at the
2021 United Nations Climate Conference in Glasgow
and the Art Speaks Out exhibitions at the 2022,
23 and 24 United Nations. climate conference
in Egypt, Dubai and Azerbaijan, respectively.
In late 2023, Catherine's work, Fireflower, I
can't wait to hear about this, created with fire
itself, achieved global recognition when it was
presented by the Australian Prime Minister as
a gift to the then President Joe Biden at the
White House during an official visit to Washington.
So welcome to Catherine. Thank you very much
for coming along. And I cannot wait to... start
this conversation. Thank you for having me, Hannah.
Now, Catherine, you emigrated from the United
Kingdom. You're originally from the UK, which
is where we are. And just for everybody listening,
Catherine, we're currently it's around. 10 a
.m. here in our time, and Catherine is having
this call. Catherine is in Australia, and I think
it's around 9 o 'clock at night there, or what
time? It's just after 7 p .m. Just after 7, okay.
So you're originally from the UK, and you emigrated
to Australia aged four. And can you tell us a
little bit about that, about that emigration
and then moving and then the focus and your development
as an artist? And has your love of arts always
been there as something that's evolved? I was
four years old, as you mentioned, and my parents
came to Australia as 10 -pound poms. So it was
assisted passage. So I think my mum and dad were
about 30 years old or 32 years old, and they
decided that they were choosing between Australia,
New Zealand or Canada. and they chose Australia.
So we came by ship. It was a six -week voyage,
which I don't remember, except that I was being
told I was very, very sick on the way over and
nearly had to be hospitalised. But, yeah, so
we arrived in Melbourne and settled in Melbourne.
And you ended up, you obviously educated over
there in Australia and you ended up going to
art school and you had quite an interesting,
you know, I've been reading about your experience
at art school because you dropped out, didn't
you? You found going to art school a little bit
disconcerting, didn't you? What's the journey
there with your art education? Yes, I went to
art school in the 70s and at that time there
was quite a large alternative lifestyle movement
happening in Australia and possibly globally,
I don't know. So I was doing at that time graphic
art and design and it was quite commercial and
I was at the same time reading books like Shoemaker's
Small is Beautiful. grassroots magazines and
earth garden magazines, and it just didn't fit
with my burgeoning feelings about the world.
So, yeah, I dropped out and became a hippie in
the bush. Yes. So you were at art school, what?
for about a year and you decided it wasn't for
you? About 18 months, yes, before I dropped out,
yes. And was it at that point that you established
your studio in the bush because you still have
a studio in the bush? No, it took us quite a
while. I met my husband and we spent at least
two or three years earning money to buy a block
of land in the bush. So we eventually saved enough
money to buy 120 acres. on the far south coast
of New South Wales and with just 100 acres of
bush with nothing on it. So we virtually had
to, you know, start from scratch and do everything
ourselves. And that in itself was quite creative
because I was, you know, weaving and spinning
wool and dyeing wool and making pots out of clay
and making macrame and all that sort of stuff.
Very creative. Exactly. And I want to speak to
you about that in a moment, about that use of
those kind of objects like sticks and stones
and wool and that kind of that recycling of those
materials. But let's turn for a moment to look
at climate change because we're facing massive
challenges as we face climate change. And Australia,
just like the UK, is committed to net zero emissions
by 2050. and a target to reduce emissions by
43%, I think, below 2005 levels by 2030. Now,
we're facing climate change, we're facing inequality,
pandemics, resource pressures, so it's not good
news. What role do you think the arts have in
getting us focused on some of these issues and
creating engagement? Yes, I really believe that
the arts can play a big role, especially in raising
awareness and getting people engaged with the
climate crisis. I mean, data and statistics are
crucial, but art has this amazing ability to
communicate complex issues in a way that's emotional
and easy to connect with. And it can make something
like climate change feel more real and personal
rather than just looking at graphs and pie charts.
So as an artist, you can graphically show the
urgency of a situation and you can use your art
to challenge people's views, which might encourage,
hopefully, someone to act. And it's not just
about climate. Art can open up space for talking
about a whole range of issues. So it can spark
empathy, it can get people talking, and it can
help us think about choices we make and our impact
on the world. So, yeah, I really think that art
can be a real catalyst for change. And how much
do you think your own environment, because you
haven't just been interested in climate change
and what's happening to our planet because you've
talked just for a moment ago about the kind of
materials and the resources that you've used
in your work and you've steered away from the
more traditional oil paint maybe and canvas,
et cetera, and using a lot of other kind of,
whether it's dirt, mud, wool, as you say. wood
a lot of wood um and you're you're burning a
lot of um your work as well you use quite powerful
blow torches don't you i've seen those images
in the studio um how how much do you think it's
important to as an artist to to care about your
immediate environment because you've talked a
lot about the fires around your studio because
your area was much impacted by those bushfires.
And in fact, I think you've been quoted as saying,
we didn't see the blue sky for six weeks. Well,
when I think about where you live and for our
listeners, you do live in one of the most beautiful
parts of the planet. It's Merambula Lake. You
overlook that area and it's incredibly beautiful,
known for its beautiful sky and incredible wildlife
and birds. Tell me about that experience and
how that impacted your work. Well, I've always
considered myself a landscape artist. So, yeah,
I've always been inspired by my surrounding environment.
But those fires, the Black Summer fires, which
were five years ago now, were a huge turning
point in my art practice. And I think seeing
that destruction up close, it really shook me.
And I don't think I've recovered yet, actually.
And they call them the forever fires because
they burned for six weeks and that just never
seemed to end. They just seemed to go on and
on. And it's estimated that three billion native
animals perished in those fires and that the
area burnt was the size of Syria. So that really
hit home just how urgent the climate crisis is.
After the fires, I just wanted to do something
with my art to raise awareness. And I remember
saying to my sister at the time during the fires,
this is what I'm going to do. From now on, I'm
going to use my art to try and raise awareness
about climate change. So I just poured all that
shock and despair into my work. And as you mentioned,
I even used fire itself to make art. So that
meant burning pieces, painting and burning timber
and using pyrographic tools like hot wires to
burn into the timber itself. Yeah, in a way that
was therapeutic, I suppose, as well. And a lot
of that work, it's beautiful. I've looked extensively
at your work, mainly obviously through online,
and a lot of it has a botanical feel. But certainly
after the fires, you've got the titles like,
I think it's While the World Burns, Burnt Orange,
Decadence. They're quite haunting. I mean, they're
very haunting works, aren't they? The Fireground.
They are very haunting works, yes. And I think
that's what I want to do. I want my work to celebrate
the beauty of the natural world, but also there's
an underlying sense of despair in the work. As
time goes on, the more I'm confronted with the
environmental destruction we're facing, it's
not getting better, it's getting worse. So I
see all this natural beauty around me in the
world and I can't help but think about what will
be lost if we don't act to protect it. So I am
actually a bit sneaky. I don't want to turn people
off with images of burnt koalas or oil slicks
or outright disaster. And I don't want people
to look away in horror. So I try and lure people
in with something visually striking and beautiful
and then they get hit with the underlying message
about climate change or plastic pollution or
textile waste or whatever concept I'm trying
to communicate. Exactly. Is that what happened
with the fire flower, number eight, a work of
art that went over to the White House? Tell me
about that. That piece was from a series that
was actually from a series previous to the Black
Summer fires that happened five years ago. And
that work was in response to that. So it's an
abstract looking flower on a black background
and the black background represents charred landscape,
the burnt bush. And the flower itself actually,
it's talking about resilience because in Australia,
I don't know if you know, but our bushland is
incredibly resilient and it's evolved to thrive
and survive after bushfire. So in a way it's
talking about the despair of the bushfires but
also the resilience of the land afterwards. And
it's, I mean, when I said before that I make
beautiful work, and that's my thing, but that's
not to say I don't make confronting work also.
I made a video which was one of the videos that
showed at the UN Climate Conference in Abidjan
last year. and it's called Aquarium 2050, and
it's a video featuring a future where humans
are extinct and ocean life has disappeared, and
it's a derelict aquarium which stands as a haunting
metaphor for ecological collapse. But even so,
I must admit that even that bleak vision has
an eerie kind of beauty to it. I love those pieces,
the pack mentality. I love that series of pieces.
You mentioned the, let's go back for a moment
before we, because I do want to talk about the
landscape that you have there in Australia and
the arid, the semi -arid areas. But just let's
go back to the White House for a moment. And
because that pitch, that work of art. was given
by the Australian Prime Minister, wasn't it,
to the then President Joe Biden of the United
States. What did you know about that? I think
I read somewhere that your art dealer didn't
tell you it was on its way. I knew absolutely
nothing about that. I found out my sister happened
to ring me and say, Kath, your artwork is on
the news, on TV. And I said, no, no, you've got
that wrong. She said, turn it on, turn it on,
turn it on. So I did. And I'd missed it, actually,
so I had to go and sign up to this television
station, which I never watched as commercial
because I only watch government news anyway.
So I turned, I recorded it, and there it was.
And the gallery hadn't told me anything about
it. I knew nothing. That was the first I found
out about it. You were worried about something.
You had to probably go through quarantine. It
must have taken a bit of time to get that piece
of art over there or not. But the other shocking
thing was that day I got a call from The Guardian
newspaper. So I had to actually give an interview
for The Guardian newspaper, which is also quite
terrifying. But anyway. It got people talking
and did it do what you wanted it to do? It did,
and because I was hoping that, I mean, in my
wildest dreams, I was hoping that possibly the
Australian Prime Minister giving that artwork
to Joe Biden, there might have been some conversation
about climate change, I don't know. So anyway,
it was very exciting. I mean, it's pretty amazing,
isn't it, to have a piece of art there. Do you
think it's hanging at the White House? Do you
think it's? No, it's probably rubbish now. We'll
move on from that. It's probably in the poster
now. It might be in the archives, but it'll certainly
be coming out at some point. So just let's go
back to the Australian landscape. And because
Australia, I think I've read somewhere, I will
quote this statistic because statistics, as you
say, are important as well, because they give
us a benchmark of where we are. But I read somewhere
that Nearly a third of Australian communities
will be spending over... The temperatures will
be significantly higher over 35 degrees C, and
that's going to double each year by the time
we get to 2050. And that's because you're already
facing... You have semi -arid conditions. You've
got a lot of, you know, it's very dry, isn't
it? So going back, yeah, sorry. Although since
the bushfires, this area has had a lot of rain
and, in fact, the climate has changed quite considerably.
It's got quite humid and wet. And like at this
time of year, we don't experience, usually don't
experience such humidity. So the climate's all
over the place. And are people talking about
that where you are now? I mean, do you find everybody
talking about it or do you still? Everybody talks
about the weather. Because we want people to
talk about it, don't we? Yeah. Everybody's talking
about the weather. Yes. Yes. Because we've had
horrific floods here recently. We just had a
cyclone up north. So it's just. One part of Australia
there's bushfires raging and the other part there's
floods and hurricanes. So it's a mess. I mean,
I think that was always the case, but I think
the frequency and the intensity of these extreme
weather events, you know, are just increasing.
So going back to those politicians, you're doing
what you can to raise awareness because it is
all about getting people talking, making it accessible
as well. And that's one of the great joys of
art, isn't it? You can make it accessible to
a lot of people in a way that people can perhaps...
It's relatable. It's relatable, yes. You can
have, you can... affect people on an emotional
level, which, as I was saying before, is much
more powerful, I think, than even data and statistics.
It gets people on that level and that's, I mean,
I'm just trying to do what I can do because I
just, after the bushfires, I just felt so helpless
and I just felt, you know, what can I possibly
do? And this is the only thing I could think
of that I could possibly do. that could maybe
make some tiny bit of difference or at least
make me feel that I'm doing something. So you
feel positive that you are doing something, although
I know art in general is a, you called it, well,
you've quoted Brett rightly, haven't you, a difficult
pleasure. It's a difficult pleasure, isn't it?
That's a quote by Brett Whiteley, yes, the Australian
artist Brett Whiteley, a difficult pleasure.
So, no, I think, I mean, since I've started,
My work's been put out there on an international
level. I mean, I never ever dreamed that for
a moment when I started making climate art, you
know, all those years ago. But that, you know,
that just makes me want to keep going because
obviously it's having some impact, even if it's
only a small impact. Well, it seems to have had
quite a large impact if you've got the Australian
Prime Minister gifting a piece of your work to
the President of the United States. So the difficult
pleasure that you face and the fact that you
do feel positive and that you're making a difference.
How do you feel when you see the politicians,
world leaders get around the table and talk about
this issue? And you've just said everybody's
talking about the weather. Indeed, it's... in
our news every day for all the wrong reasons.
And I mentioned earlier, the economy, it tends
to hit the people who can least afford to be
hit. How does that make you feel when you look
at the news and you look at the debate going
on and you look at the targets that are being
set? I don't think there's enough being done
at all. I mean, it's... We need extreme measures
and, in fact, we're going to go backwards. I
mean, Trump's latest, you know, when he's during
the campaign, he even mentioned it and he's mentioned
it afterwards and he's actually putting things
in place with his drill baby drill comment. You
know, he wants to, now he wants to log national
parks in America. It's, you know, there's just,
even in this country, we've got a Labor government.
But they're not doing enough, I don't think.
They're still opening, giving approval for coal
power stations to be opened in this country.
There's still not enough being done to protect
national parks and wildlife. So it's very frustrating
as an artist and as a global citizen. So you
see that and obviously business has a part to
play and all of us have a part to play. And in
your day -to -day life, Catherine, you mentioned
your studio practices using a lot of recycled
material. Can you talk to me a little bit about
where does that go? I mean, are you going to
continue? How careful are you with the practices
and your lifestyle that you lead? involves digital
media, so I'm not using a lot of physical materials.
So I'm thinking about, in a way, I've almost
deliberately gone towards digital art because
I'm thinking about the bigger picture and how
I can reduce energy consumption and my work is
mostly printed, which I try and get done in the
most sustainable way possible. The digital art
I'm making is quite eco -friendly because it
doesn't rely on traditional materials that can
often have a big environmental footprint like
paints and solvents and canvases and other physical
resources, which can be wasteful or harmful to
produce and dispose of. So working digitally
means I'm creating using pixels, not raw materials,
so there's a much smaller carbon footprint. And
it gives me a way to explore environmental themes
without contributing to the problem. I can experiment
endlessly without using up materials and it sort
of aligns with the messages in my work, especially
around sustainability and climate awareness.
And that digital work grew, didn't it, Catherine,
during lockdown? I think I read you couldn't
get to your studio. Yes, because I couldn't access
my studio. But I still wanted to make art, so
I had to find a way to make art which meant without
using physical materials and having a studio
to create the art in. And at that time I started
doing an advanced Photoshop course. So that taught
me, you know, how to use Photoshop. And then
AI started coming into play and I started experimenting
with AI, which was fascinating. And then I started
combining photography, so photographs of the
landscape and environment I live in, and combining
that with AI and combining those images in Photoshop.
So it's quite a process that I go through. I've
just started actually experimenting with another
technology called scanography. With that, I bought
a little scanner. It's called a scanner. I don't
know if you know what a scanner is. No. You can
scan documents. It's something that scans documents.
Oh, yes. You can scan lots of other things. Okay.
You can scan things at a very high resolution
so that you can actually blow them up quite large.
So I've been actually scanning my secondhand
clothes and scanning the textile waste and fabric.
and creating these images and designs on the
scanner and then taking those images into Photoshop
and digitally manipulating them. So that's what
I'm doing. Gosh, that sounds fascinating. I can't
wait to look out for that. I've got an exhibition
coming up in Sydney called Threading Lightly
and it's with the Embroiders Guild of New South
Wales and they've got this exhibition on textile
art and they've asked me to put, work in in their
exhibition coming up this summer coming up this
summer uh coming up in uh may in may quite soon
okay so now one of your heroes is anson keifa
and um he said art is longing you never arrive
but you keep going in the hope that you will
Is that true for you, Catherine? What next for
you in your life? You've just talked about that.
That is so true. I mean, it's always, you're
always after the Holy Grail as an artist. You
know, it's the journey and it's the longing and
you're constantly pursuing something that feels
just out of reach and you always, the work you
do, you're springboarding off that to thinking
about the next work and it's, yeah, so I'm always
exploring new ways to express my thoughts. but
I know I'll never get there, never quite arrive.
You'll never quite get there. There's always
another journey, isn't there? Yeah, you'll keep
going. There's always more to learn and create,
so yeah. And in terms of you're over there in
Australia, your world is your Easter, but your
art is all over the world. In terms of the UK,
do you visit the UK? And I know that you'd love
to have a piece at the... at Tate Modern. Do
you have ambitions for the UK? Look, I'm getting
a bit old in the tooth. But, look, over the years
I've come back to the UK many times. And, in
fact, my parents, after we immigrated to Australia
in 1961, we actually moved back to the UK ten
years later because my mum and dad got homesick
for England. Okay. And we lived there for 12
months, but then we were back to Australia again.
You went back, yes. But then I've been back and
forth quite a few times and I actually feel quite
at home going back to the UK. There's something,
I get off the plane and I feel at home. So I
feel at home here and I feel at home there. But,
yeah, I can't see myself having a major show
in the UK. I do sell my work through a UK -based,
artist website called Degree Art. So if anyone
is interested, they can check it out there. Super.
And, of course, you know, my work, we're a global
economy, so people can check out my website and
all the things. Of course. And your work will
continue to feature planet and climate. And I
do love that quote, Kiefer, art is longing, you
never arrive, but you keep going in the hope
that you will. Catherine, thank you very much.
Thank you for your time today. There can be no
doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge
of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse
gas emissions to slow global warming. Today,
we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles
to current and future impacts of climate change.
Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver
on our climate commitments. Today, we work for
tomorrow's world. Please don't forget to subscribe
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know what you think and for any ideas as well.
And email us at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk.
Thank you so much to Catherine for taking up
part of her evening to talk to us. It's our morning,
but it's your evening to talk to us about your
work and climate change and how your work is
impacted by everything that we, well. the biggest
issue of our time. So thank you very much, Catherine.
Thank you, Hannah. It's been a pleasure. Thank
you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information
about our work and to find more content, please
visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.