This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast
from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate
Change, our collective challenge. I am Hannah
Walker and I believe that the best way to communicate
a message is by being passionate about what you
are talking about. Through that passion, I believe
you take people with you and create action using
your influence to make change and make a difference.
Our task today is to get all of us to net zero.
Welcome to my guests today, and that is Josh
Steele and Stan Thomas. Josh Steele is Chair
of the Young Engineers Network, and Stan is Deputy
Chair of the Young Engineers Network. The network
is for those in the first 10 years of their career.
It is designed to support engineers, helping
them progress and develop their careers, as well
as enabling them to come together and influence
the growth of the sector. It also provides a
platform for new thinking, novel ideas to design
and knowledge. Thank you very much to Stan and
Josh for joining me today. Good to see you. I'm
going to start with both of you, actually, because
it would be lovely to understand a little bit
about your careers, how you've got to be where
you are. And then I'd love to talk more about
the Young Engineers Network. So we'll start with
Josh. That's superb. Well, firstly, thank you
very much for having us on. Yeah, we're really
excited to dive into this with you. So, yeah,
my career started, obviously, leaving college,
as most people did, without really understanding
what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And
I was introduced to a family friend who was doing
domestic installation. I was house bashing, as
we used to call it. And I started my apprenticeship
there. So I did a four year apprenticeship qualifying
as an electrician. Now, through through that
period, I found myself into the building management
systems world. My father had been in the industry
for some time. And, yeah, I found myself as a
BMS electrical installer and progressed really
through through the ranks. you know, promoted
into commissioning and software writing. And
then, you know, I did about eight years on the
tools in total. And I thought, oh, there must
be an easier way of making some money. So I now
find myself in the world of sales. And so, yeah,
I've been doing that for a couple of years now.
And yes, that's a brief, brief history on myself.
Superb. So that work that you were doing early
on as an electrician and, as you say, developing
the building management systems has really informed
your ability to talk to your clients and your
audience, I guess. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's
been so beneficial to have the technical knowledge
that, you know, the systems that I've worked
on for so long, you know, to be able to sit in
front of a client and discuss it with them and
use my engineering understanding of it as well
to, you know, portray it in a way that they can
understand. And, yeah, it's been super, super
beneficial for me, really. Superb. And I'd certainly
like to talk about that later because one thing
we come across, I'm not an engineer by background
or I don't have a technical background, but there's
all those acronyms. You slipped into the BMS
and I do know what that means, but it took me
a while. So, Stan, would you like to talk about,
tell us a little bit about yourself? Thank you.
Yes. Yeah. So I came into the industry about.
A year ago now, so literally exactly a year,
about five days ago. And I came from a small
gardening, sort of did a bit of gardening and
bar work and lots of hospitality work. So working
with a lot of people, didn't really know what
I wanted to do at the university, which was studying
business and environment. So sort of integrating
businesses and sustainable management resources,
sustainable social practices. And this job came
up from a company that I've been working with.
And it was in building management systems. I
didn't know what it was exactly the same as you.
And learned a little bit more about it and sort
of understand it in a way that. I think of it
as a person and you've got eyes and ears and
touch and you can sense everything. And basically,
how do you use sensors in a building to intelligently
communicate changes of temperature, CO2, humidity
to help the comfort of an individual? I found
it extremely interesting. And when you realise
it can be paired with sustainability and using
less energy in drastic amounts, I... sort of
delve straight in and now specialise in the wireless
technology of LoRaWAN. So that's wirelessly communicating
of data to save on installation costs and labour
hours. Superb. So it's interesting when you talk
about those sensors, which is so important when
you work, when we work, we go into projects in
hospitals and schools, that controlling of that
temperature is vital, especially in hospitals
to the recovery of patients. and in schools to
help children just get on with their learning.
Certainly. Yeah, we see it a lot. And the CO2
levels as well and the air quality. So as soon
as you get parts per million of CO2 above 1 ,000,
which the average person wouldn't understand
too well, I suppose, unless you're on something
like an aeroplane or a confined space and you
start feeling a bit tired in a classroom. I know
it used to happen to me all the time. And it
wasn't because I've been sleeping the night before
because I've been on Instagram reels or something.
It was more that there wasn't actually enough
oxygen in the room and there's too much carbon
dioxide. So I think stuff like that is extremely
important to people's health, whether they realise
it or not. The research is coming out now and
it's quite outstanding. Fantastic. Thank you
very much. So both of you, you've got a different
background and experience, but you are. both
now heavily involved in the Young Engineers Network.
I explained a little bit about that at the beginning.
But would you be able to talk me through what
your role is at the Young Engineers Network?
Because we've got a chair and we've got a deputy
chair here. Josh, would you like to start? Yeah,
absolutely. So, yeah, first and foremost, the
BCIA is the Building Controls Industry Association,
which essentially is the governing body for the
BMS world. A few years back in 2022, they set
up a young engineers network that was predominantly
aged for people aged under the age of 35. And
it's young people coming into the industry. And
I actually attended the first event and I went
by myself. I was nervous. I didn't know anybody.
I sat in the corner. I was quiet and, you know,
started engaging in some small conversations
with people. And, you know, there was some light,
you know, education pieces and some presentations.
And, you know, it was followed by a social networking
event after. And I walked away from it thinking,
wow, what a great, you know, initiative that
this is to bring in like -minded people together
in an environment where, you know, you're free
from the everyday pressures of, you know, the
construction industries. And, yeah, from that
kind of day, I started volunteering, you know,
helping out, getting involved and kind of casting
some ideas around. And, yeah, recently got elected
as the chairman. And, yeah, I have to say I'm
absolutely thrilled and chuffed to bits and,
you know, wear that with great honour. You know,
being able to work in such a great leadership
team, you know, myself and Stan might hold the,
you know, chair and vice chair positions, but
the leadership team between us. you know is great
you know we've got such a good strong team putting
together events for you know young engineers
to come together we like to add elements of training
um and you know as i say in an unpressured environment
where you can voice opinions you know talk to
each other and you know without the fear of being
judged and you know it can be a scary place when
you're walking into a room full of people you
don't know but you know it is such a great initiative
and one i think You know, we'll do our industry
very, very well. And Stan, how did you come to
be involved? I have sort of been on the outskirts
of the Young Engineers Network. I'm in the south
and Josh was the south lead for the Young Engineers
Network. I got introduced to Josh, immediately
got along at the first event, got speaking about
it. And I love what it stands for. And as soon
as I saw it, same as Josh, I just thought, what
a brilliant thing to be able to do. You're creating
a safe space, which I think is especially important
in this day and age. I think one of our key aims
this year is to get a grip on the mental health
of the Young Engineers Network and sort of promote
in some of the events. Just, I suppose, as Josh
was saying, the ability to speak without being
judged. about not only things in the industry.
It's very important that people should learn.
And we have those technical sessions and those
workshops. But you also develop friendships and
connections that you'll be able to speak to outside
of your current friendship groups or your family.
You've got people that are slightly disconnected
from you, I suppose, as such. And I think we
should definitely take advantage of that. But
it's also, I suppose, on another level, more
towards this podcast is... encouraging innovation
of these young people we've got young people
now that are willing to change that have grown
up in an era of change and and the industry is
is uh is is a wide range of ages but the younger
generation can really innovate change and learn
about this net zero stuff whereas people that
have been stuck in practices for for a long while
may be slightly more hesitant to to this change
so i think that's really where the young engineers
network's going to come in and uh and really
helped the industry to the best. Superb. Thank
you. Now, taking the conversation back to that
net zero, that climate change that we are so
heavily involved in at Salix, we work very closely,
obviously, with governments across the UK, as
well as public sector housing associations with
other organisations within housing to drive this
agenda and to meet these very challenging net
zero targets that we have and that we read about.
very often in the news every day. So we're looking
at substantial changes and challenges as we face
climate change. Can you tell us about the critical
role that you think engineers play in developing
solutions to climate change and net zero, but
by designing the systems, we've touched upon
that a little bit, Stan, but by designing the
systems that reduce environmental impact? How
important is it that engineers are on that? I
think it's extremely important that young engineers
are, I think the most important bit here is really
the education of these young engineers. And so
they're kept up to date with the latest and greatest
because there's things coming in the industry.
I mean, every month you've got a whole revelation.
Now you're integrating AI and technology into
analytics platforms that will help you prevent.
all sorts it can help you prevent the failure
of devices it can improve your efficiency so
i think really learning how that works is important
for the young engineers um we've never had more
tools and devices uh at disposal to allow us
to design such efficient systems um so i think
again that comes back to the young engineers
network and and us training them on on these
latest and greatest systems that we're seeing
uh unveil sort of Left, right and centre. And
you understand a lot of the technologies. Obviously,
there's a lot more to come and they're fast developing
and we're seeing that happen every day. But in
terms of admissions, do you think generally most
people understand emissions? Do you think people
understand carbon emissions and how we can manage
them and maybe how technology can be of use when
you talk to people in your work? You know, in
your wider circle and amongst the network. I
think that's a bit of an interesting one. I think
it always comes down to the education piece.
I think, you know, most people don't understand
the full dynamics of, you know, emissions and,
you know, what impact it's having, where it's
happening and stuff like that. I think the common,
you know, concept is, you know, you look at cars,
you know, cars produce emissions, you know, but.
You know, it far exceeds just cars on the road.
So going back to that education piece, you know,
there's a lot of buzzwords that we seem to be
flying around, you know, net zero decarbonisation,
all this sort of stuff. But, you know, I do think
it's important to really kind of get the ideas
across in a clear, simple way for people to understand.
And I think that's probably, you know. One of
the biggest challenges with it really is that
education piece. The technology these days is,
you know, forever progressing. You know, technology
is changing every day and it gives us the tools
to enhance our capabilities to manage these,
you know, emissions from, you know, being on
site and, you know, connecting to these different,
you know, innovations and everything like that.
So, yeah, I think a lot of the understanding,
you know, comes down to education. And in your
work, Josh, because you've moved from being that
electrician to knowing so much about the building
management systems into sales, do you find that
that's a large part of your work that you're
now talking to people about, not just how you
get a piece of technology implemented and designed,
but how it is energy efficient and how it can
contribute to that, to building a better planet?
Is that part of your work? Yeah, absolutely.
We're finding all the time that, you know, when
we're going into, you know, these big project
tenders, you know, a lot of it is around sustainability,
energy management and, you know, being more eco
-friendly to the environment. You know, a lot
of the stuff we're seeing now is around recycling.
A lot of building materials are being recycled.
You know, we're looking at enhanced technologies
and analytic packages that, you know, once the,
you know. post -occupancies being completed.
We're looking at analytics packages that are
monitoring the systems to see how well they are
performing against their design specifications.
We've got alarm routings that are able to tell
us when a piece of kit isn't operating in that
dynamic of what it should be and allows us to
go and investigate it before it really starts
to cause massive effects. So a lot of it is taking
the proactive effect rather than just waiting
for something to you know happen a lot of this
technology is advancing now and giving us a lot
of tools to be able to monitor it not even you
know just through the construction stages but
you know post completion as well and do you find
that you're it's more of a nudge or do you think
people are coming to you with that sustainable
demand you know for their projects Oh, it's definitely
coming heavily from above, from the developers
of these big construction sites. You know, it
really is at the forefront of their focus. And
I think that has naturally filtered down, you
know, through the different contractors and stuff
like that. And it's making people think outside
the box slightly and thinking, well, how can
we innovate this? How can we improve it? How
can we make it better? You know, I think that
drive from above has definitely, you know, helped
and it allows us to, you know, drive it forward
you know with our clients and stuff as well so
yeah i agree with that and stan with the people
that you work with you know every day do you
do is it is it is it more you suggesting or is
it is it that kind of nudge or is it people demanding
a sustainable approach yeah i suppose as a as
a sales manager myself it's i'm i i'm selling
into system installers which are then completing
these intelligent systems for the end client
and i will it's a two -way street i will say
to them it's going to help with the compliance
and reporting all these new governmental policies
that are that are coming in um and you need to
make sure the systems you're putting in a future
proof because it's only going to get more strict
and rightly so uh for the benefit of the planet
um and Yeah, I'd say they're coming back and
saying this is what we're looking for. The end
customer wants to be sustainable. They want to
be seen as sustainable. Their business is being
pushed towards green, sustainable advertising
even. And I think it improves the sort of recognition
you get as a company for having these sustainable,
healthy, air quality buildings. That's what I'm
seeing. I'm seeing a massive push for it. And
it's only going to get more in the next year
or two. And is that push, do you think that push
is important coming from a combination of factors,
so government, private sector, us all working
together on that? I think so, yeah, yeah. It's
certainly important for the government getting
involved with these grants and loans they're
putting in. I think that's going to seriously
help out because it does, in the end it comes
down to cost, it comes down to how much money
can you put into it. into a building because
you can get the latest and greatest technology,
but it's making that work effectively for you
and getting that return on investment as well.
So it's if I put the money in, when do I see
that money back is the question I'm being asked,
because it does come down to it. It's easy to
think about it as all good for the planet and
philanthropy. And I think that's great. At the
end of the day, we're speaking about large businesses
here in the private sector specifically, and
they need to see that they're going to get some
sort of return on their investment, whether that's
through improving the visibility of their brand
through being sustainable or whether that's through
saving heating emissions through applying smart
radiator valves and saving heating emissions
in areas that don't need them. Well, you've kind
of answered my next question because I was going
to ask, what is net zero and is it all about
cost? And the nub of it is, I suppose, it's largely
about cost. Of course it is, because this is
expensive to do. But there is also the background
of being good for the environment and meeting
those challenges that we have. Yeah, yeah. And
I think it's a balance between how much the system's
going to cost and the sustainability side of
it, if you're going to get the most expensive
tools and equipment. Do you go for the, if you're
going to spend £100 ,000 more, are you only going
to get a marginal gain on the carbon emissions
that maybe you could save elsewhere through creating
cycling aid for your workers and you put the
money towards something else that could maybe
slash the emissions more in your business? So
I think you've also got to be intelligent with
where you are putting this money towards now.
building management systems super and do you
find i mean question for either of you actually
do you find that when people coming to you at
the point they come to you and i appreciate you're
in the young engineers network but the point
when your clients come to you they're discussing
all their options it might not necessarily impact
what you can provide but they're looking at the
whole big picture i mean that's that's that's
a bit of an interesting one because i mean we're
we're we're we're quite a niche market we're
quite small in the grand scheme of the whole
construction site um albeit you know a lot of
the modern technologies fall within you know
the building management systems um but when talking
to clients and you know developers and stuff
like that we do always have the conversations
on you know what what can we do what can we improve
and you know how do we further develop it and
you know i think that's where you know having
young engineers in in the industry at the forefront
of these technologies and enhancing you know
the modern day practice is is key um so yeah
the conversations are always there and you know
you've got to start somewhere right and it's
a good position to be in to start and we're having
these conversations now and now the conversations
are flowing they seem to be developing we start
hearing more and more about it and And once the
word of mouth gets around, in a few years' time,
I think we'll all be on it a lot more. So you're
inspired by not just your work day to day, but
your involvement with the young engineers because
you're seeing a lot of that positive work and
positive action happening. So does that mean
you're feeling positive or good about the climate
future? I think you can kind of look at it one
of two ways. I think if we carry on heading the
way we're heading, Without taking action, we
could be in some trouble. Looking on the brighter
side of it, and as I say, having these conversations,
as the conversations progress, there are lots
and lots of talented people coming into our industry
that are grown up with technology. Now, I like
to think I was kind of on the cutoff point. I
had it just before technology came in and kind
of had it learning the ropes of technology as
well. You know, a lot of these kids nowadays,
you know, they're on phones, they're on PlayStations,
Xbox, you know, computers and all that sort of
stuff. So they've kind of grown up with technology
and seen it, you know, progress and enhance.
So what we have coming into our industry is a
lot of talented young people that are built up
with technology and they're coming up with these
ideas and visions. And, you know, it paints a
much brighter future for us. I generally believe
that, you know, the young engineers are our future
and, you know, they'll be the ones that deliver
it for us. Superb. Thank you. Now, you're both
obviously very young in your careers. Stan, what's
next? What are the next steps for you and your
work? And how do you see your career developing?
Definitely. And just what can I make one quick
point just about the previous? Just I just think
a couple of key points for this getting to net
zero with the young engineers is at. So three
main points, I think. I think planning has got
to be an extremely important part of the process.
If you try and retrofit buildings with these
new smart technologies, it costs a ridiculous
amount more than if you were to build them with
it in. That's my first point. Second point is
communication. I think people in all different
stages of this building, so from the grant to
the planning, to the design, all the way to the
commissioning, everyone needs to be communicating
for that one goal of net zero. And another one
is extremely complex. I think that's the other
barrier we're going to have to come across. And
it's creating easy to understand. I know we've
got loads of acronyms at the start of this. We
were talking about the BMS and you've got HVAC
and all this. It's trying to break it down into
easy, understandable practices that everyone
can perform in the industry. And lastly. people
don't like change and i think we're going to
have to learn how to change and be flexible and
that's where the young engineers come in um but
but with regards to me and the sort of future
um of my my career i'm sticking with the i'm
in i'm in a brilliant company at the moment very
happy about where i am and i love the fact i'm
making a difference in energy efficiencies um
no plans to move but um with regards to the young
engineers network i'd I want to push it from
strength to strength. And that's what me and
Josh are doing this year. We've got a couple
of plans to put in place. I think it's a really
exciting time to be in the Young Engineers Network.
So we're going to prioritise mental health by
fostering an inclusive environment and supportive
environment. And there's going to be other sort
of volunteers, I suppose, if we can get them
to help us out along the way with that alongside
workshops. addressing work -life balance, resilience
on the industry. And I suppose my last point
would just be the young engineers, exactly as
Josh said, young engineers have got the power
in their hands to change this industry for the
better and to help the UK and the world reduce
their carbon emissions. So I think, yeah. I can't
wait to see what happens. Superb. Thank you.
We're hoping you're going to come back as well.
I'm going to go to Josh in a moment. We hope
you come back and explain and tell me the progress
you have made with all those fantastic plans.
Josh, chair of the Young Engineers, I expect
you'll be mirroring a lot of what Stan has just
explained. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah,
the BCIA Young Engineers Network is generally
such a good... place to be and to be a part of
it is something I'm really, really proud of.
We've got some big plans for the year. We've
got quite a few events planned already. We've
really started this year strong and we're excited
to see what the future holds. We're two young
engineers ourselves. We haven't done this before.
We're almost winging it as we go, but we're having
great fun whilst doing it. We've built some great
relationships and we're learning along the way.
You know, what it's doing for me and my own career
personally is superb. You know, I'm able to develop
my own personal skills and, you know, I'm learning
technical skills for the workshops and stuff
that we're doing. And, yeah, it really is great.
I would encourage everybody to, you know, look
it up, get involved and, you know, come and join
us because it is great. Thank you. Thank you
so much for sharing that enthusiasm. And we're
terribly excited. to watch you progress. Those
key elements that Stan mentioned as well a few
moments ago about planning, communication and
the complexities around the net zero are very
poignant to discuss. Thank you very much to both
of you for joining us today for our Salix decarbonisation
dialogue podcast. We hope you'll come back again.
There can be no doubt that climate change is
the biggest challenge of our time. Today, we
must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow
global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow,
adjusting our lifestyles to current and future
impacts of climate change. Today, we must use
our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate
commitments. Today, we work for tomorrow's world.
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and
send any news or views to our podcast email,
which is podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. But
a big thanks once again to Josh and to Stan for
your time today and telling us all about the
Young Engineers Network. Thank you. Thank you
very much. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks.
You've been listening to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information
about our work, and to find more content, please
visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.