WEBVTT 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:10.490 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:14.269 from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:14.330 --> 00:00:16.230 delivering on climate change, our collective 00:00:16.230 --> 00:00:18.489 challenge. I'm Hannah Walker, and I believe that 00:00:18.489 --> 00:00:21.170 the best way to communicate a message is by being 00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:23.170 passionate about what you are talking about. 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:25.629 Through that passion, I believe that you take 00:00:25.629 --> 00:00:28.329 people with you and create action using your 00:00:28.329 --> 00:00:30.769 influence to make change and make a difference. 00:00:31.109 --> 00:00:34.950 Our task today is to get all of us to net zero. 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:39.200 And today, I'm fortunate enough to have Ian Rodger 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:42.520 here with me for our podcast. And Ian is Director 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.960 of Public Sector Decarbonisation at Salix. So 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:47.820 fantastic. And thank you for your time, Ian. 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:50.600 Thank you very much for having me. I would like 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:52.880 to talk a little bit about your career. How did 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:55.299 you get here? And I know that you've had a very 00:00:55.299 --> 00:00:56.979 successful career with the Army over the last 00:00:56.979 --> 00:00:59.579 20 years. And then you've then shifted into business, 00:00:59.780 --> 00:01:03.060 which has brought you to Salix. So can you tell 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:05.459 me a little bit about your background? So I was 00:01:05.459 --> 00:01:08.760 an engineering graduate. I did a master's at 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:10.840 Exeter University in electronic engineering. 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:16.500 And from there, I joined the army. I spent most 00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:19.640 of my time in the army in telecommunications 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.519 and strategy. And I was really fortunate. I got 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:27.400 to travel all over the world. And I did things 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.280 and met people in places that you would. No other 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:34.299 job would ever get you close to. And it was absolutely 00:01:34.299 --> 00:01:38.420 fascinating. And then I did that for 18 years. 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.280 And then for various reasons, mostly to do with 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:45.980 spending more time with my family, I decided 00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:48.959 it was time for a change. And so I then went 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.280 to work for Barclays. I did a number of jobs 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:56.099 in Barclays, but I ended up... in the business 00:01:56.099 --> 00:01:59.120 banking section of Barclays, which supports the 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.420 small business customers. And my particular job 00:02:02.420 --> 00:02:06.200 there was looking after all sorts of challenging 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:08.340 issues that didn't have a natural home within 00:02:08.340 --> 00:02:11.740 the bank. So everything from rolling out GDPR 00:02:11.740 --> 00:02:15.199 to historic complaints. And one of the last things 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:18.199 that I did while I was there was to develop a 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:22.960 strategy for Barclays to support its small business 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:26.139 customers. in the transition to a net zero economy, 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:30.560 because we could see the changes that were happening 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.000 already in the British economy and in the world 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.740 economy. And we could see the future changes 00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:39.020 that were likely. And it was apparent to us that 00:02:39.020 --> 00:02:40.800 a lot of small businesses were going to really 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.740 struggle with that transition unless we put in 00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:47.780 place some support mechanisms to do that. So 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:49.960 that was one of the last things I did. And through 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:52.439 that, I was lucky enough to meet a number of 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:56.099 people, one of whom was Theresa Graham, who was 00:02:56.099 --> 00:02:59.680 the chair or previous chair of Salix. And she 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.960 invited me to apply for this job. And here I 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.879 am today. And I would imagine that obviously 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:09.340 a key part of your work and your time in the 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:12.939 army is that developing of that team, that really 00:03:12.939 --> 00:03:15.800 that team spirit and that togetherness and that. 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:20.400 commitment to be driven to one goal how has all 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.080 of that experience helped you in what you're 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:26.300 doing today i think it's hugely influential in 00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:29.719 how i lead the team and how i see us doing i 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:33.439 think to be successful in anything it's always 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:36.180 about the people you have with you and getting 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:39.520 the right people and motivating those people 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:41.800 so they're passionate about what they're doing. 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:44.900 But not just that, that they understand not just 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:47.379 what they're doing, but why they're doing it 00:03:47.379 --> 00:03:49.780 and the importance of doing a really good job. 00:03:49.939 --> 00:03:52.939 And I think that's been a constant throughout 00:03:52.939 --> 00:03:56.280 whatever job I have done. And it's just as important 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:59.599 here working at Salix as it was in the Armory 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.860 or in Barclays. It's about taking people, motivating 00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:05.659 them and making sure they have a real passion. 00:04:06.379 --> 00:04:08.319 and an understanding about what they're doing 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.900 and they feel that they can make decisions to 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:13.580 the best ability to achieve the objectives that 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:17.439 we've set. And OK, so you're the I would say 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:19.180 you're at the coalface of delivering one of our 00:04:19.180 --> 00:04:21.839 biggest schemes. And we do deliver a number of 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:24.319 schemes across the spectrum in housing and public 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:26.420 sector decarbonisation. But you're certainly 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:28.899 at the coalface of delivering the public sector 00:04:28.899 --> 00:04:31.959 decarbonisation scheme with government. Huge 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:35.660 project, which we're seeing projects being developed 00:04:35.660 --> 00:04:38.579 and delivered across the country. But for you, 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:43.600 what does an average day look like then? I don't 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.560 think there is an average day, which is one of 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.620 the beauties of this job. Every day is different. 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:53.680 Every day has new excitements and new challenges. 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:57.180 They all have a similar theme. But obviously, 00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:59.579 the public sector decarbonisation scheme is important. 00:05:00.779 --> 00:05:04.100 the team also runs the low carbon skills fund 00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:07.959 the equivalent grants in scotland we have loan 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:10.920 schemes in england scotland and wales we have 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:13.220 the welsh to garvin scheme and schemes of the 00:05:13.220 --> 00:05:15.139 scottish funding councils there's 11 different 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:17.819 schemes that we run as a team all focused on 00:05:17.819 --> 00:05:21.259 energy efficiency and net zero so all of that 00:05:21.259 --> 00:05:24.079 combined means a lot of different kind of challenges 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.779 a lot of different things we have to do But I 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:30.540 think there's kind of three key parts to my day 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:33.579 probably, or my working day, because everything 00:05:33.579 --> 00:05:36.639 is different. The first one is the kind of strategy 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:39.319 and policy engagement. I'm a member of the executive 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:43.279 of Salix here, so making sure the company is 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:45.759 set up and supporting all of our goals effectively 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:47.860 and that we're working together as a wider team 00:05:47.860 --> 00:05:49.879 to deliver all of the schemes, not just the ones 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.339 in the public sector that we're responsible for. 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.269 But that's also as much engaging with the Department 00:05:57.269 --> 00:06:00.230 for Energy Security and Net Zero, the Scottish 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.029 government and the Welsh government, having policy 00:06:04.029 --> 00:06:06.410 discussions with them about what they want to 00:06:06.410 --> 00:06:09.009 do. They're the ones who provide us with the 00:06:09.009 --> 00:06:12.449 money that we spend and the objectives that we 00:06:12.449 --> 00:06:15.860 have to achieve. supporting them in developing 00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:18.660 that policy so we can maximise all the funding 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:21.279 that we get to achieve the best possible outcomes 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:23.439 is really important. And we spend a lot of time 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.939 doing that and making sure that the policy objectives 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:29.740 are correct and then the schemes that we design 00:06:29.740 --> 00:06:33.319 and deliver are the best possible way of meeting 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:37.160 those policy objectives. I think the second key 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:42.389 role is assurance. I am responsible for making 00:06:42.389 --> 00:06:44.610 sure all of that vast amount of public money 00:06:44.610 --> 00:06:48.569 is spent correctly. So ensuring that all of our 00:06:48.569 --> 00:06:52.329 controls and our processes are in place, that 00:06:52.329 --> 00:06:55.350 our system works to support that and that the 00:06:55.350 --> 00:06:57.730 people who are delivering that understand that 00:06:57.730 --> 00:07:01.050 and are doing that effectively. And then we report 00:07:01.050 --> 00:07:03.209 regularly to all of our funders and all of our 00:07:03.209 --> 00:07:07.259 schemes and to the Salix board. on how we are 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:10.579 delivering and assuring them that the money they've 00:07:10.579 --> 00:07:13.120 given us to hand out to the public sector has 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.699 been spent in the right way. And then I think 00:07:16.699 --> 00:07:20.379 the third piece is really, it's all very well 00:07:20.379 --> 00:07:22.259 talking about these schemes in the abstract, 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:25.620 but in reality, every single project that we 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:28.060 support, and there are thousands, is different. 00:07:28.579 --> 00:07:32.459 Everything from a 30 to 40 million revamp of 00:07:32.459 --> 00:07:36.660 a hospital's heating system a few hundred thousand 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:39.160 pounds changing an old gas boiler for an air 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.779 source heat pump in a school these are all real 00:07:41.779 --> 00:07:46.639 people in real buildings with children with patients 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.500 with hospital staff with public with whoever 00:07:50.500 --> 00:07:54.220 works and lives and uses those buildings and 00:07:54.220 --> 00:07:57.279 they have all sorts of challenges and issues 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.139 whether it's the school having to work around 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:03.850 classrooms that are needed by pupils and after 00:08:03.850 --> 00:08:05.689 school clubs and work can only be done at certain 00:08:05.689 --> 00:08:10.389 times or hospitals having to manage infection 00:08:10.389 --> 00:08:12.850 control when they're working in hospital wards 00:08:12.850 --> 00:08:15.629 or shutting down operating theatres so they can 00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:18.269 do essential replacements all of these are going 00:08:18.269 --> 00:08:21.709 to real world problems and you know as simple 00:08:21.709 --> 00:08:24.569 as simple as we can make the scheme nothing ever 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:27.629 quite fits individuals projects so a lot of my 00:08:27.629 --> 00:08:29.850 time a lot of my leadership team time is sent 00:08:29.850 --> 00:08:32.480 just kind of working around the margins the gray 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:35.039 areas of things that don't quite fit the nice 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.820 neat rules that we write down on paper and trying 00:08:37.820 --> 00:08:40.879 to make sure that we use that money effectively 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:43.980 and kind of help those projects with these complex 00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:46.019 issues and their own schemes to manage and their 00:08:46.019 --> 00:08:48.860 own projects to deliver do so in a way that remains 00:08:48.860 --> 00:08:51.059 compliant within the intent of what we're trying 00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:53.850 to do Thank you. And thank you for explaining, 00:08:53.909 --> 00:08:57.070 you know, the broad nature of the work at Salix, 00:08:57.070 --> 00:08:58.750 because you're absolutely right. There are such 00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:02.350 a variety of schemes there for Wales. We've got 00:09:02.350 --> 00:09:05.070 the recycling, we've got the de Garben, we've 00:09:05.070 --> 00:09:08.669 got Scotland and across, obviously, all the housing 00:09:08.669 --> 00:09:11.169 schemes as well. It's a huge amount of work. 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:14.309 But just focusing, though, on your last point, 00:09:14.409 --> 00:09:16.070 you've talked about strategy, working with the 00:09:16.070 --> 00:09:18.730 department and the importance of assurance. But 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:21.789 you're talking about the reality. So you're right, 00:09:21.929 --> 00:09:25.230 we're working with schools, universities, colleges, 00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:30.909 hospitals, whole leisure centres, one, a massive 00:09:30.909 --> 00:09:33.289 amount of work going in terms of installing heat 00:09:33.289 --> 00:09:36.190 pumps, energy -saving measures, solar, PV, etc. 00:09:36.730 --> 00:09:40.470 That reality, how much do you see of that reality? 00:09:40.710 --> 00:09:42.649 Now, I've been on a few site visits with you. 00:09:42.750 --> 00:09:45.009 What do you take away from those kind of visits? 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:51.240 Several things. First of all, I think I touched 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.740 on it previously, the complexity. We see a fairly 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:57.259 simplified view when we see the project application. 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:00.580 It all looks like all project plans do. It looks 00:10:00.580 --> 00:10:03.620 very clean and neat on paper. And then I think 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:08.139 you get a better grasp of the reality of some 00:10:08.139 --> 00:10:10.840 of the challenges that our clients have to grapple 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:14.029 with. And why it's so important that we understand 00:10:14.029 --> 00:10:16.250 that and are flexible enough to be able to support 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:18.649 them as far as possible within the overall scheme 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:23.289 rules. But the second thing I take away is just 00:10:23.289 --> 00:10:26.429 how engaged and passionate so many people are 00:10:26.429 --> 00:10:29.590 about this, about doing the right thing, about 00:10:29.590 --> 00:10:32.750 even though it's probably not the most straightforward 00:10:32.750 --> 00:10:35.769 thing to do, it's the right thing to do and doing 00:10:35.769 --> 00:10:38.389 it well and doing it. And they're passionate 00:10:38.389 --> 00:10:40.450 about doing it for their buildings, for their 00:10:40.450 --> 00:10:44.779 sites. but also for the carbon savings they can 00:10:44.779 --> 00:10:48.159 do through these projects and the energy efficiency 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:49.960 and the overall cost savings they can deliver. 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.220 And then the third thing I always take away is 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:56.580 the ambition. There's a lot of people out there 00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:59.580 who just think we can do this, and we just need 00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:02.039 to get on with it, and there's plenty of technologies 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.879 that are there, the skills are there, the people 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:06.980 are there. We just need to get on and do it. 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:10.320 I think that's the optimism. We can make a difference, 00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:13.179 I take away as well. So, absolutely, you've got 00:11:13.179 --> 00:11:17.679 that ambition, and you've mentioned carbon emissions 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.740 and cost savings as well, because that matters, 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.440 doesn't it? It matters going into a building 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.500 and making those energy efficiency savings, but 00:11:24.500 --> 00:11:28.460 also any cost savings are important. But there 00:11:28.460 --> 00:11:30.179 are rather a lot of targets, aren't there, Ian? 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.500 You know, we've got 2050 targets, we've got 2040 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:34.840 targets. A lot of councils have got 2030 targets. 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:38.740 And every day we're working to very tight deadlines 00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:43.179 within our work. I know the delivery teams are 00:11:43.179 --> 00:11:46.720 working to very tight targets to deliver the 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:48.940 projects on time to get that money out the door. 00:11:49.340 --> 00:11:52.679 Are there too many targets and are they realistic? 00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:00.399 A target is only ever as good as the plan to 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.980 achieve it and resourcing that effectively. So 00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:09.620 a target that's just there for the sake of having 00:12:09.620 --> 00:12:12.879 a target or to say that we've got a target, and 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.220 it helps, almost like greenwashing. I think some 00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:17.340 targets are greenwashing. We set a target, therefore 00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:20.940 we're good. But actually, and I think you see 00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:23.240 this, the schemes and the projects that we often 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.860 see are the most successful. It's not just a 00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:30.059 target. It's a strategic objective of the public 00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:32.440 sector body, whether it's a hospital or a university 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.379 or a local authority. They know what they need 00:12:35.379 --> 00:12:38.899 to achieve. And it's really important. And their 00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:42.980 boards, their executives, all of their staff 00:12:42.980 --> 00:12:45.580 are bought into trying to hit that because it's 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:47.879 a core objective of the public sector body. So 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:53.820 I think those are valid targets. Other short 00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:55.480 -term targets are important. I know there's a 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.059 lot of pressure that we have because of the way 00:12:58.059 --> 00:13:03.159 that funding is channeled to public sector bodies, 00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:05.259 particularly in the grant schemes where you have 00:13:05.259 --> 00:13:07.240 to spend a certain amount within each financial 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.820 year. And I get that is really challenging. But 00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:15.620 part of me also recognises that doing that has 00:13:15.620 --> 00:13:20.980 forced a tempo. It has forced people to take 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:23.299 action, to make decisions, to get on with it. 00:13:23.539 --> 00:13:25.879 Whereas if there'd been a slightly looser or 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.440 more ambivalent timeline, it wouldn't have happened. 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:31.720 So I think sometimes targets are really important. 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:33.240 They're kind of holding our feet to the fire, 00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:36.159 saying we've got to do this, and we have. 2050 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:38.840 wasn't magic up out of thin air. There's scientific 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:40.960 evidence that says if we don't get on and start 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.899 reducing our carbon emissions, we are fundamentally 00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:45.559 going to change the planet we live on, and it 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:49.370 won't be pleasant. We absolutely have to look 00:13:49.370 --> 00:13:51.610 at some of those targets and work out how we're 00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:53.490 going to achieve them rather than complaining 00:13:53.490 --> 00:13:55.570 about the target themselves. The targets are 00:13:55.570 --> 00:13:57.250 there for a reason. I think they're important. 00:13:57.850 --> 00:14:00.730 Our job is to make sure we resource hitting those 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:03.610 targets and make them core to our business, whatever 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:06.289 we do. And do you think we can go fast enough 00:14:06.289 --> 00:14:10.690 then to meet those targets? I think the opportunity 00:14:10.690 --> 00:14:17.360 is there, whether there is enough will. across 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:19.460 both politically and in the public to make the 00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:23.740 changes that we need. I think it's obvious that 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:26.799 the technologies exist to do what we need to 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:31.100 do. The know -how exists to do what we need to 00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:33.220 do. For most things, there are some things I 00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:35.799 appreciate are still quite difficult and possibly 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.320 a stretch, but they're on the margins. They're 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.340 not the big bulk of emitters. We just need to 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.690 get on and do it. But I think it's not just, 00:14:45.789 --> 00:14:47.590 and I talk about the political, it's not just 00:14:47.590 --> 00:14:52.110 the politicians. I think certainly government 00:14:52.110 --> 00:14:54.269 has a fair amount of ambition in what it's trying 00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:57.250 to achieve. But all of us are going to have to 00:14:57.250 --> 00:15:00.730 look really hard at our lifestyle and how we 00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:04.250 live and the things that we choose to do, because 00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:06.570 we all make choices every day. And a lot of them 00:15:06.570 --> 00:15:09.970 involve emissions, that city break that we go 00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:12.830 on, that overseas holiday in a villa by a pool 00:15:12.830 --> 00:15:16.940 somewhere. that cruise whatever it is or just 00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:20.899 what we eat you know where we shop there's a 00:15:20.899 --> 00:15:22.580 whole host of choices we're gonna have to think 00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:25.940 really carefully i think as a as a nation as 00:15:25.940 --> 00:15:30.019 a world as a kind of a collective on what we 00:15:30.019 --> 00:15:32.179 choose to do because every choice we make now 00:15:32.179 --> 00:15:34.840 has an impact and if we're not careful and we 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:36.779 don't start really thinking about what the impact 00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:40.230 of those choices are long term I think we might 00:15:40.230 --> 00:15:42.690 walk our way into a bit of a disaster. So it's 00:15:42.690 --> 00:15:46.409 not just about the big ticket items and political 00:15:46.409 --> 00:15:49.470 will from government. Everyone has to be thinking 00:15:49.470 --> 00:15:51.970 about this now and start working out what they 00:15:51.970 --> 00:15:54.990 can do to help. And we do see that every day, 00:15:55.009 --> 00:15:57.769 don't we, through the projects that we're working 00:15:57.769 --> 00:16:00.250 on, whether it's the capital projects, whether 00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:02.090 it's schemes like the low carbon skills and the 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:05.139 ambition and the heat carbonisation plans. The 00:16:05.139 --> 00:16:07.519 people that are working on those projects have 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:10.360 home lives. They travel. As you say, we go on 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:14.039 holidays. Many people choose to eat meat, dairy, 00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:19.440 etc. It's whether that's enough. It's not just 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.360 government, is it? As you say, it's business. 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.559 It's all of us. It's just being nudged to go 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:26.820 in the right direction because I think we can 00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:30.330 generally agree. As you say, science is on our 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:32.250 side. We can generally agree this is something 00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:35.309 we all need to be doing. This is climate change. 00:16:35.610 --> 00:16:37.870 This is happening. We see it on our news every 00:16:37.870 --> 00:16:42.570 day. We've seen it in Valencia recently. We saw 00:16:42.570 --> 00:16:47.289 it in Wales not so long ago with flooding. Clearly, 00:16:47.710 --> 00:16:51.870 it's there. It's happening. It's whether people 00:16:51.870 --> 00:16:55.009 are really prepared to make that change and not 00:16:55.009 --> 00:17:01.299 just a little bit of recycling. on the side exactly 00:17:01.299 --> 00:17:04.819 that and people i think but it's also an education 00:17:04.819 --> 00:17:06.859 piece i think a lot of people don't understand 00:17:06.859 --> 00:17:08.720 the consequences of a decision or don't have 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.140 an option and that's the other thing i think 00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:14.180 we're seeing more and more but there are sometimes 00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:16.460 it's not straightforward to make those choices 00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:18.359 some people don't have a choice but to drive 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.380 to work every day you know if they want to work 00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:22.819 if they want to keep that job they're going to 00:17:22.819 --> 00:17:26.819 have to do this how do we help people make those 00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:28.900 choices and make it easy to make the right choice 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:30.720 because at times at the moment it's very hard 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.279 to make the right choice you can probably only 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:34.519 do it if you're wealthy enough you know to have 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:36.880 that choice and i think that's the the challenge 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:39.740 of our generations how do we make that choice 00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:43.339 a possibility for everyone not just those who 00:17:43.339 --> 00:17:46.440 can afford to make it is something you see when 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:51.490 you go on your site visits uh not just You know, 00:17:51.529 --> 00:17:54.230 looking at those heat pumps and counting those 00:17:54.230 --> 00:17:55.930 carbon emissions, because obviously they have 00:17:55.930 --> 00:17:58.569 to report on their carbon and carbon savings, 00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:03.069 et cetera, eventually. Do you also see the impact 00:18:03.069 --> 00:18:06.329 that that environment has on the people who use 00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:08.769 it? You know, whether it's those patients, whether 00:18:08.769 --> 00:18:12.309 it's the schoolchildren, whether it's the leisure 00:18:12.309 --> 00:18:15.549 centre users, the people who use the warmer swimming 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:18.210 pool. I mean, does that, is that having an effect? 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:21.079 Is that going to be enough of a... coaxing mechanism 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.099 to encourage people this this building now feels 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:29.519 better to use there's certainly other benefits 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.380 other than the kind of the energy efficiency 00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:36.119 savings and the carbon savings so we've had feedback 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.700 from a number of clients from you know our chief 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:43.000 executive was on a visit to school the other 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.960 day and the teachers and kids were telling him 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.579 it was lovely because enough to wear their coats 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:51.450 into the classroom anymore because the room was 00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:53.670 properly insulated, the windows didn't have big 00:18:53.670 --> 00:18:56.089 gaps where the air came in and the heating worked. 00:18:56.349 --> 00:18:59.869 So that's a real positive. We've seen it also 00:18:59.869 --> 00:19:02.009 in some of the hospitals we've supported where 00:19:02.009 --> 00:19:06.349 patient recovery times are reduced because a 00:19:06.349 --> 00:19:08.410 consistent temperature is possible in some of 00:19:08.410 --> 00:19:10.769 the wards for those with long -term injuries. 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:14.650 And that's been really positive. I think the 00:19:14.650 --> 00:19:17.809 other thing we also see when we go on visits 00:19:17.809 --> 00:19:19.930 is the wider picture because we're obviously 00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:23.049 in a very narrow channel we're focused on the 00:19:23.049 --> 00:19:25.230 decarbonization of heat in buildings that's really 00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:30.690 what we do the most but i was at a hospital in 00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.710 the southwest recently and while we were there 00:19:33.710 --> 00:19:37.589 in the canteen they were having a a stand run 00:19:37.589 --> 00:19:40.869 by the estates team and all that week the food 00:19:40.869 --> 00:19:43.410 they had sourced was zero emissions carbon they're 00:19:43.410 --> 00:19:45.170 explaining where they got it from how it was 00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:48.299 gone and encouraging people to look for those 00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:52.420 kind of opportunities in their own food purchasing 00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:55.359 for home. So a lot of these organisations aren't 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.819 just doing the big stuff, the buildings. They 00:19:58.819 --> 00:20:01.019 really are looking holistically at their carbon 00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:03.819 emissions and the challenges and really trying 00:20:03.819 --> 00:20:07.519 to support their staff and support the people 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.859 who use those facilities and understanding their 00:20:09.859 --> 00:20:13.799 options and choices. So what we do makes a difference. 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:16.880 directly in terms of carbon emissions it has 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.900 an indirect impact on the quality of the life 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:22.900 of the people who use those buildings whether 00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:25.900 they be patients pupils you know staff working 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:28.700 in a council office businesses to a leisure centre 00:20:28.700 --> 00:20:31.880 but it also gives them an opportunity to advertise 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:33.619 wider things and that's been quite successful 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:36.359 as well thank you now i know you're you you are 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.619 a lover of the great outdoors and um i think 00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:41.640 you've told me about your expeditions i think 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.700 is it duke of edinburgh that you lead teams into 00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.759 the mountains, into the camping and into the 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:50.200 wilderness. You obviously love the outdoors, 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:53.339 which, so it'd be lovely to hear just for a moment 00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:56.059 a little bit about why you do that. But also, 00:20:56.180 --> 00:20:59.079 you've talked a lot about people changing their 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:01.720 habits and their lifestyle. Well, you're a director 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:04.420 at Salix. We're working heavily with governments 00:21:04.420 --> 00:21:07.759 across the UK on net zero and meeting these challenges. 00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:09.880 So I am going to put you on the spot a little. 00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:12.220 What changes have you made to your lifestyle? 00:21:12.970 --> 00:21:17.890 That's better for the planet. OK, so there's 00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:19.670 two very different questions there, and I'll 00:21:19.670 --> 00:21:23.529 answer the second one first, if I may. So in 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:28.789 terms of me, we put solar panels and a battery 00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:32.829 on our house last year, and I'm hoping to install 00:21:32.829 --> 00:21:37.630 a heat pump on my house next summer so that we 00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:40.990 can reduce our carbon emissions as a family as 00:21:40.990 --> 00:21:44.539 much as possible. uh and i recognize i'm fortunate 00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:47.039 that i have the money to be able to do that because 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:50.740 not everyone has uh i catch the train and cycle 00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:53.559 to work i don't use the car i use public transport 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.339 all the time wherever possible we've reduced 00:21:57.339 --> 00:22:00.980 the amount of red meat that we eat as a family 00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:03.380 we can't eliminate it because i think my oldest 00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:06.019 son would i have a fit if that happened because 00:22:06.019 --> 00:22:08.880 he's a big fan of his lamb chops and steak but 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.109 we do that we try to shop locally and we look 00:22:12.109 --> 00:22:14.970 for goods that have been bought locally where 00:22:14.970 --> 00:22:19.609 we can um so we could do more absolutely we could 00:22:19.609 --> 00:22:22.809 do more um but as you say everyone's got to try 00:22:22.809 --> 00:22:24.410 doing their own little things first and that's 00:22:24.410 --> 00:22:27.650 what we're trying to do um in terms of your first 00:22:27.650 --> 00:22:30.450 question uh i do love the great outdoors i've 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:32.089 always have done always was one of the reasons 00:22:32.089 --> 00:22:33.650 i joined the army because it was much better 00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:35.670 than spending life behind the desk every day 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:38.670 I still be of that, even though I now spend life 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:40.630 behind the desk every day, I'd much rather be 00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:43.210 out and about. And so when I left the army or 00:22:43.210 --> 00:22:46.329 just before I left, I actually run an explorer 00:22:46.329 --> 00:22:49.329 scout unit, which is a 14 to 18 year olds. And 00:22:49.329 --> 00:22:52.890 yes, I do love taking them out in some of the 00:22:52.890 --> 00:22:55.730 wilder places in the UK and sharing my love of 00:22:55.730 --> 00:22:58.230 hill walking and the great outdoors of them and 00:22:58.230 --> 00:23:00.890 trying to encourage the next generation of outdoor 00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:03.569 enthusiasts and show them what possibility you 00:23:03.569 --> 00:23:06.589 can get. up in the hills, in the mountains or 00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.589 something like that. Thank you. Now, this discussion 00:23:08.589 --> 00:23:13.529 could easily lead us to a picture of gloom, especially 00:23:13.529 --> 00:23:15.710 when we talk about climate change. And I think 00:23:15.710 --> 00:23:18.970 I know the answer to the next question. But are 00:23:18.970 --> 00:23:23.390 you an optimist or a pessimist, Ian? Always an 00:23:23.390 --> 00:23:26.470 optimist, Hannah. Got to be an optimist. I meet 00:23:26.470 --> 00:23:30.069 too many positive people, too many really bright, 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:32.769 enthusiastic people who are doing their utmost 00:23:32.769 --> 00:23:36.500 to make a difference. The ambition is there. 00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:39.619 The technology is there. The willpower is there. 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.960 I think everything is there. All the jigsaw pieces 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.660 are around us. We just need to put it together 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:46.359 and get on with it. So, yes, definitely an optimist. 00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:48.700 Perfect. Thank you very much. And thank you very 00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:51.740 much to Ian Roger for your time today on our 00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:54.279 decarbonisation dialogue. There can be no doubt 00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:55.839 that climate change is the biggest challenge 00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:58.180 of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse 00:23:58.180 --> 00:24:01.059 gas emissions to slow global warming. Today, 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:03.880 we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:06.220 to current and future impacts of climate change. 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:09.440 Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:12.740 on our climate commitments. And today, we work 00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:15.660 for tomorrow's future. Don't forget to subscribe. 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.460 to our podcast channels. And please do email 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:21.660 with your suggestions and ideas to podcast at 00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:25.319 salixfinance .co .uk. Thank you. Thank you very 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.220 much, Ian. Thank you very much for having me, 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.039 Hannah. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.519 Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:37.940 about our work and to find more content, please 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:42.279 visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.