WEBVTT 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:10.490 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:14.470 from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:14.509 --> 00:00:16.649 delivering on climate change, our collective 00:00:16.649 --> 00:00:19.289 challenge. I'm Hannah Walker and I believe that 00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:21.690 the best way to communicate a message is by being 00:00:21.690 --> 00:00:23.530 passionate about what you are talking about. 00:00:23.789 --> 00:00:25.890 Through that passion, I believe you can take 00:00:25.890 --> 00:00:28.609 people with you and create action using your 00:00:28.609 --> 00:00:30.829 influence to make change and make a difference. 00:00:31.350 --> 00:00:35.030 Our task today is to get all of us to net zero. 00:00:36.140 --> 00:00:39.539 With me today, I've got Gareth Ellis, who's Energy 00:00:39.539 --> 00:00:41.780 and Environment Manager at Cranfield University. 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.219 So thank you very much to Gareth for joining 00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:47.659 us. A huge amount of experience in sustainability 00:00:47.659 --> 00:00:50.259 and operations at the university. You oversee 00:00:50.259 --> 00:00:52.799 the management of carbon, energy and environment 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.539 across the university estate. You've also been, 00:00:55.619 --> 00:00:57.979 I believe, a school governor, a football coach. 00:00:58.490 --> 00:01:01.329 And you live, I believe, in mid -Bedfordshire 00:01:01.329 --> 00:01:03.869 and you're passionate about improving your local 00:01:03.869 --> 00:01:07.069 area. You've worked hard on improving road safety 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:09.890 in the local parish and you've secured funding 00:01:09.890 --> 00:01:12.629 for solar panels on the roof of a local school 00:01:12.629 --> 00:01:17.010 and a cycle link as well between villages. Cannot 00:01:17.010 --> 00:01:19.209 wait to hear all about that. So thank you very 00:01:19.209 --> 00:01:22.930 much to Gareth for your time today. Let's start, 00:01:23.010 --> 00:01:24.930 Gareth, by talking a little bit about your career 00:01:24.930 --> 00:01:28.090 and how you combine that and your work at Cranfield, 00:01:28.310 --> 00:01:30.930 which is extensive, with all of that community 00:01:30.930 --> 00:01:34.409 work too. Thank you. I started out originally 00:01:34.409 --> 00:01:37.870 as an agricultural engineer working in the agricultural 00:01:37.870 --> 00:01:40.549 industry, advising on mechanisation on farms. 00:01:40.930 --> 00:01:42.950 Because of where I was and because of the kind 00:01:42.950 --> 00:01:45.590 of farms I was working on, fruit farms, horticultural 00:01:45.590 --> 00:01:48.620 farms and so on, energy was a big issue. So that's 00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:50.719 really how I got into the energy side of things, 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:53.780 using my engineering kind of background and knowledge. 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:56.879 I suppose the community angle to this maybe came 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:01.420 more when I made my first move in my career kind 00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:04.959 of sideways to working for a charity that was 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:07.700 promoting renewable energy. So having developed 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:10.900 a kind of expertise on wind turbines and to a 00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:14.740 lesser extent solar in my kind of agricultural 00:02:14.740 --> 00:02:19.659 sort of. area of work. I went to work for a national 00:02:19.659 --> 00:02:22.319 charity, National Energy Foundation, promoting 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.800 renewable energy. And that really did focus on 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.740 working with local communities, working with 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:31.680 schools and sort of general awareness raising, 00:02:31.819 --> 00:02:34.500 but also working on specific projects. And I 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:37.599 think it was at that stage and also with children 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:41.319 growing up that I became more involved with, 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:44.680 you know, standing on the local parish council 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.020 actually standing as uh i was elected as a green 00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:50.520 district councillor for a couple of years before 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:54.379 they closed the district council down um and 00:02:54.379 --> 00:02:59.139 so i got involved in in yeah alongside my work 00:02:59.139 --> 00:03:01.259 i suppose one bled into the other put it that 00:03:01.259 --> 00:03:05.759 way And today you're very much involved in the 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:10.120 decarbonisation of the Cranfield University estate. 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.379 In fact, I know you've been working with my colleagues 00:03:12.379 --> 00:03:15.719 in Salix on various schemes, including, I believe, 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:18.949 the public sector decarbonisation scheme. Generally, 00:03:19.030 --> 00:03:20.969 on the climate front, we're looking at massive 00:03:20.969 --> 00:03:24.270 challenges as we face climate change. We're looking 00:03:24.270 --> 00:03:27.930 at inequality, pandemics, resource pressures 00:03:27.930 --> 00:03:31.650 and indeed the very threat to humanity. Your 00:03:31.650 --> 00:03:35.370 view, are we doing enough now on the climate 00:03:35.370 --> 00:03:38.849 change agenda or have people given up? Oh, I 00:03:38.849 --> 00:03:41.330 don't think people have given up. And I think 00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:43.849 we could always do a lot more. The situation 00:03:43.849 --> 00:03:47.500 is much more positive now than it was. When I 00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:49.819 first got involved with the community energy 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:53.719 side of things, maybe 20 years ago, I think then 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:57.560 it was much more a kind of small scale kind of 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:02.680 approach. But now there's a lot more interest 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:05.379 from the general public. There's a lot more support 00:04:05.379 --> 00:04:08.560 from government. And this is all comes back, 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:10.580 obviously, to the recognition that climate change 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:16.199 isn't going away, that it is a clearer. and fast 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.579 approaching threat. So I think things are a lot 00:04:19.579 --> 00:04:21.959 more positive now, but I think we could be doing 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:25.019 a lot more. It's surprising what you can do if 00:04:25.019 --> 00:04:27.339 you're given the resources. And I think the public 00:04:27.339 --> 00:04:29.699 sector decarbonisation scheme for Cranford University 00:04:29.699 --> 00:04:33.800 was a bit of a game changer for us. We had done 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.459 a lot of work, you know, between 2010 and 2020. 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:41.000 We did a surprising amount of work using loans 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:45.639 and kind of internal revolving funds. to make 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:48.899 lots of energy savings. But the grant scheme, 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:50.860 the public sector decarbonisation grant scheme, 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:54.920 really enabled us to make the kind of shift that 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.519 we need to make to get onto that decarbonisation 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.959 path. And by shift, what I mean by that is basically 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.139 all our heating here was very largely using gas 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:09.019 boilers. And now through the public decarbonisation 00:05:09.019 --> 00:05:11.420 scheme, we've managed to get rid of the vast 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:15.319 majority of those. And we're on a path to electrifying 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:18.500 our heating systems. And we've got a strategy 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:21.680 on how we will make sure that that electricity 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:24.000 that's going to drive our heating systems is 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.589 both affordable and also zero carbon. And indeed, 00:05:27.670 --> 00:05:30.370 at Cranfield, you are committed to those net 00:05:30.370 --> 00:05:33.569 zero carbon, reducing those net zero carbon emissions. 00:05:33.709 --> 00:05:38.870 I think you've got a 2030 deadline in reducing 00:05:38.870 --> 00:05:41.829 emissions by thousands of tonnes a year following 00:05:41.829 --> 00:05:44.629 that investment that you've spoken about in energy 00:05:44.629 --> 00:05:47.810 saving measures. So the university has invested 00:05:47.810 --> 00:05:52.029 significantly and in renewable energy, as you 00:05:52.029 --> 00:05:55.550 say, since 2010 at least. But what does that... 00:05:55.689 --> 00:05:58.389 actually mean for the site? And what does it 00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:01.009 mean for the students, the community around you, 00:06:01.170 --> 00:06:03.649 and what does it mean for the future of the university? 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:06.689 Well, it has impacts in all sorts of ways. Of 00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:09.529 course, Cranfield University is a very technology 00:06:09.529 --> 00:06:13.410 -orientated university, so a number of students 00:06:13.410 --> 00:06:15.529 who come here are either studying the environment 00:06:15.529 --> 00:06:18.949 or they're studying engineering or energy as 00:06:18.949 --> 00:06:21.430 part of their postgraduate studies. So there's 00:06:21.430 --> 00:06:24.389 a huge overlap sometimes with what they're studying. 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.040 or even researching, and what we're trying to 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.220 do. I could cite quite a number of examples where 00:06:30.220 --> 00:06:33.100 we've done work with our postgraduate students, 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:36.879 either doing PhDs or MSc theses, where they've 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.139 been working on projects which actually harness 00:06:39.139 --> 00:06:42.079 some of the work that we've done, but also give 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.660 us feedback and give us an input and an insight 00:06:44.660 --> 00:06:46.279 into what we might want to be thinking about 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:49.939 doing next. It has other benefits. In terms of 00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:52.819 the local community, I'm not sure. certainly 00:06:52.819 --> 00:06:55.399 we we have to make sure that we are working with 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.120 the local community and they're aware of what 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.720 we're doing because the first solar farm we put 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.439 in was right next to the village we've got a 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:04.259 large village cranfield village the other side 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:07.000 of our airfield and that's where we cited the 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.000 solar farm so we we had to work closely with 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.759 the paris council to make sure they were comfortable 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:12.540 with the way we were putting that solar farm 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:16.459 in for example And in terms of that community, 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.540 how engaged? You've obviously had to look at 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:21.600 whether it's planning, whether letting people 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:24.879 have an idea of timescales, what they can expect. 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:26.720 There's all of a sudden this building work. There 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.300 may be diggers, all kinds of construction workers. 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:32.519 So you're obviously communicating with that local 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.819 community. But how do you communicate that message? 00:07:36.899 --> 00:07:39.279 Because presumably you're not just saying, we've 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:41.889 got workmen here on this date. You're explaining 00:07:41.889 --> 00:07:44.430 to people why you're doing this, why it's important, 00:07:44.649 --> 00:07:47.129 why it's better for the environment? Oh, yes. 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:48.829 I mean, that is obviously the right approach. 00:07:49.149 --> 00:07:51.709 And it is, in a sense, what the university does 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:54.129 anyway. We obviously work closely with the local 00:07:54.129 --> 00:07:57.629 community in other areas as well. Well, we've 00:07:57.629 --> 00:08:00.310 got a working airfield, so the community is always 00:08:00.310 --> 00:08:02.269 very sensitive to what we might be doing on that 00:08:02.269 --> 00:08:05.930 airfield. And we're sensitive to make sure that 00:08:05.930 --> 00:08:10.180 we don't cause them... any any discomforts um 00:08:10.180 --> 00:08:13.720 or any impacts um from our operations in general 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.360 terms but when we talked to them about the solar 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:19.620 farm they were quite impressed i think that we 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:23.160 were actually putting that kind of thing in at 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.509 that kind of scale so you've been You've talked 00:08:26.509 --> 00:08:29.209 about, we've talked about targets and you've 00:08:29.209 --> 00:08:31.170 been doing a huge amount of work there at Cranfield. 00:08:31.509 --> 00:08:34.610 And indeed, there are a lot of targets around 00:08:34.610 --> 00:08:36.990 climate change. You know, I think scientists 00:08:36.990 --> 00:08:39.029 pretty much agreed where we're going. As you 00:08:39.029 --> 00:08:41.870 say, climate change is not going away. But there 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:43.669 are a lot of targets, you know, whether it's 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:49.450 2030 target, 2050 target, 2045 target. Is that 00:08:49.450 --> 00:08:53.149 enough? And do the targets go far enough, do 00:08:53.149 --> 00:08:57.340 you think? Or perhaps they're not achievable 00:08:57.340 --> 00:09:00.879 at our current rates of progress. The UK target 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:04.580 is net zero by 2050. The university has set a 00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:09.639 target of net zero by 2030. And I can see how 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.080 we can get to net zero for our scope one and 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.700 two emissions, so our direct emissions. So the 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:18.059 fossil fuel that we burn to heat the buildings, 00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:22.539 the electricity that we import to light the buildings 00:09:22.539 --> 00:09:25.399 and provide power. I can see how we can get to 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:28.620 net zero by 2030 for our direct emissions. What's 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:31.139 more difficult is what we do about what are called 00:09:31.139 --> 00:09:34.559 scope three or our indirect emissions. And I 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:38.379 think that's probably is too much. We can do 00:09:38.379 --> 00:09:41.460 a lot, reduce our scope three emissions by influencing 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:45.899 our suppliers, by influencing our staff and students 00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:48.519 in the way that perhaps they commute to the campus 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:53.490 or they do their business. So there's a lot we 00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:55.529 can do with COP3 emissions, but I think COP3 00:09:55.529 --> 00:09:58.250 emissions won't truly go away until the whole 00:09:58.250 --> 00:10:01.899 country is net zero, if you like. That is interesting. 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.740 And thank you for explaining that because we 00:10:03.740 --> 00:10:06.100 have to, I never assume knowledge and we have 00:10:06.100 --> 00:10:07.879 to kind of make it as simple as possible also 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.500 for our listeners. So, but you're on target for 00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:12.559 scope one and two, you think you're very positive 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.080 because you can control that. And presumably 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.259 you've got a timescale and you're obviously always 00:10:17.259 --> 00:10:22.700 hoping for more funding and a kind of smooth 00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:25.120 scale of funding as well. But it's those scope 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:28.039 three emissions that you are going to struggle 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:29.840 with. Those are the ones that you... can't directly 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:33.139 impact i don't think we'll be the only ones saying 00:10:33.139 --> 00:10:35.500 that and i think the only way that you can address 00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:38.639 it is by using this term net and talking about 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:41.519 offsets but then it becomes a bit difficult because 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:46.200 carbon offsetting has got a bad name in the press 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.519 in the media and you you have to be very careful 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.559 i think about how you address offsetting and 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.299 i would say that we're we're still investigating 00:10:55.299 --> 00:10:58.789 that and we've not arrived at what the solution 00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:03.490 might be to truly talk in terms of net zero by 00:11:03.490 --> 00:11:07.570 2030 so i suppose what i'm saying is we're pretty 00:11:07.570 --> 00:11:10.710 much i can see how we can get to zero carbon 00:11:10.710 --> 00:11:14.029 never mind net zero carbon by 2030 for our direct 00:11:14.029 --> 00:11:18.129 emissions what's much more difficult is how do 00:11:18.129 --> 00:11:21.129 we get to net zero for the scope three emissions 00:11:21.129 --> 00:11:25.620 by 2030 and and as you say that is Everybody 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:27.360 else, we've all got to be doing it all at the 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.320 same time. So, and that would take me back to 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:34.360 your students. So, it's a real hub of creativity 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:37.360 and innovation and, I mean, Cranfield, fantastic 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.639 technology and all of that. And you've spoken 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.120 about the research that students are doing. But 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.740 what other kind of green initiatives, if you 00:11:44.740 --> 00:11:47.399 like, are happening at the university? And how 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:50.480 do you think generally we can engage those young 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.039 people in this climate? crisis conversation and 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:56.419 we'll call it a climate crisis shall we it's 00:11:56.419 --> 00:11:59.419 on our news every day um but how are you bringing 00:11:59.419 --> 00:12:02.019 people into that almost the raison d 'etre for 00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:04.779 cranfield being here is the the aeronautical 00:12:04.779 --> 00:12:08.480 work that goes on it isn't the only uh technological 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:12.360 subject that is that is taught here but it is 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:14.580 fundamental it's uh you know cranfield grew up 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:17.080 as a college of aeronautical engineering after 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:21.360 the uh second world war and in developed into 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.240 a broader technological college and university 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:28.580 and also has a business school but aeronautical 00:12:28.580 --> 00:12:30.779 engineering is still fundamental to what Cranfield 00:12:30.779 --> 00:12:35.320 does and of course that is very much focused 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:40.399 on the future of aeronautics and aerospace and 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.519 how is that going to become sustainable so there 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:46.200 are a lot of students coming here because they 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.580 want to obviously keep abreast of the latest 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:51.799 developments and the latest teaching in the subject 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.440 area. But that subject area is very much focused 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:57.460 on sustainability. And for example, with aeronautics, 00:12:57.460 --> 00:13:00.080 looking at things like hydrogen -fueled aircraft, 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.259 the design of aircraft to make them much more 00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:08.460 efficient and to make them fit for purpose for, 00:13:08.659 --> 00:13:13.039 let's say, that 2050 horizon in terms of when 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.940 we get to truly net zero across the country. 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.679 Tell me a little bit more about that research 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:22.440 that's happening in terms of, as you say, aeronautics. 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.659 You've got those huge hangars there at Cranfield, 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:29.740 electrification of our flight. We look up in 00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:31.759 the skies and we're all doing our best down here 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:36.519 in terms of trying to reduce our carbon emissions. 00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:41.230 But we obviously look up in the sky. Above us, 00:13:41.230 --> 00:13:43.389 we've got the planes flying overhead. So are 00:13:43.389 --> 00:13:45.950 you able to tell me a little bit about that research 00:13:45.950 --> 00:13:48.350 going on for the flight travel? We're talking 00:13:48.350 --> 00:13:50.610 about changing behaviours. We're all flying all 00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:52.610 over the world all of the time. So what are you 00:13:52.610 --> 00:13:57.610 going to do about it, Cranfield? Yeah, I can 00:13:57.610 --> 00:13:59.690 talk more about changing behaviours because that's 00:13:59.690 --> 00:14:02.529 more my remit. I'm not an academic, so I don't 00:14:02.529 --> 00:14:05.909 get directly involved in the research, only perhaps 00:14:05.909 --> 00:14:08.980 to help facilitate it. and as i say provide data 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:13.320 to students where i've got the data but we you 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.080 know for for example we have recently put into 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.419 place a policy on cranfield's business travel 00:14:19.419 --> 00:14:22.899 um and so that sort of sets the parameters for 00:14:22.899 --> 00:14:25.360 what we expect from staff in terms of whether 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:27.940 they should be using the train or using the plane 00:14:27.940 --> 00:14:31.980 um and very much the the guidance is that uh 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:35.679 if it's I think within seven hours journey time, 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:37.379 they should be very much thinking about using 00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:40.000 the train. So pretty much any travel in the UK 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:41.580 in the past, they might have thought of flying 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:45.019 up to Edinburgh. But now we would be asking serious 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:48.039 questions if they were not taking the train to 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.360 Edinburgh. So in terms of behaviour change, we've 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.159 talked about this, but now we're actually putting 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.679 policies in place, which is actually pushing 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:02.679 the staff in particular to follow. a change in 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:05.700 their behaviour, if you like, to meet what is 00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:07.840 the requirement in terms of sustainability going 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.799 forwards. As far as students are concerned, we're 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:13.860 still much more on the carrot end of it rather 00:15:13.860 --> 00:15:16.460 than the stick in terms of making sure we provide 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:19.240 them in terms of their commute onto the campus, 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:23.320 you know, affordable bus travel, cycle lanes 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:25.899 so that you can actually get here safely. And 00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:27.940 we try and promote those and try and encourage 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:29.840 them to make sure they are using sustainable 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.539 transport modes. In terms of the research, as 00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:36.759 I say, a lot of it is now looking at the technologies 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.360 of the future. So hydrogen is a good example 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.659 in terms of both how hydrogen can be used in 00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:45.299 aircraft, but also how do you actually create 00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:48.559 green hydrogen in an affordable manner? How are 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:50.159 you going to do that? Because at the moment, 00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:53.700 green hydrogen is very expensive and very scarce. 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:56.960 In terms of your capital works, you've gone very 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:58.600 fast. You've really put your foot down, haven't 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.480 you, at Cranfield over the last few years, when 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.220 you've just mentioned your solar panel, your 00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:07.480 solar PV, you've got the heat pumps. What next 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:09.960 in terms of your strategy? What's your vision 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.259 there? Well, one of the first measures we put 00:16:12.259 --> 00:16:16.480 in back in 2010 was a combined heat and power 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.960 unit. And at the time, that significantly reduced 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:23.769 our carbon footprint. It provided us with over 00:16:23.769 --> 00:16:27.889 half our electricity and about a quarter of our 00:16:27.889 --> 00:16:31.190 heating requirement. That was extremely efficient, 00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:34.610 and it was much cleaner than importing the electricity 00:16:34.610 --> 00:16:38.370 from the grid. But it was gas -fired, so it wasn't 00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:40.570 truly zero carbon. It was just low carbon at 00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:43.730 the time, relatively speaking. Now that the grid 00:16:43.730 --> 00:16:46.629 has become cleaner because of the coal power 00:16:46.629 --> 00:16:50.629 stations that were there in 2010 are now no longer, 00:16:50.769 --> 00:16:53.879 and now we've got wind farms. predominating on 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.259 the grid the grid although not zero carbon yet 00:16:57.259 --> 00:16:59.940 is much cleaner than our combined heat and power 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:03.139 unit so fortunately it's already becoming end 00:17:03.139 --> 00:17:05.759 of life so we will cease to use it in the next 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.500 year or so but we need to replace it we need 00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:11.720 to replace it with a source of clean electricity 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.700 the grid isn't there yet our solar farms are 00:17:15.700 --> 00:17:17.400 not big enough our solar farms give us about 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.900 15 percent of our electricity so we need something 00:17:19.900 --> 00:17:22.839 much bigger to fill the gap And we are currently 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.140 negotiating with a developer who's putting in 00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:28.200 a much larger solar farm about two miles away 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:32.240 from us. And the idea is that through a private 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.099 wire connection, they can provide us with as 00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:38.099 much power as we want, certainly daytime. And 00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:40.700 there is the possibility that we might also have 00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:43.400 access to some landfill gas generation, that 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.839 they can pretty much supply us as much as we 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.539 want when we want it. And that's for the future. 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.859 That's over the next what? What kind of timescale 00:17:50.859 --> 00:17:52.720 are you looking at? This hasn't been built yet. 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:56.140 This is all being developed as we speak. We're 00:17:56.140 --> 00:17:58.519 in negotiations to see whether we can pull this 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:00.660 off and whether it's a it should be a win win 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.720 situation because they can probably sell it to 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.460 us for more than they would get selling it to 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:07.920 the grid. And likewise, we can hopefully buy 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:09.839 it from them at less than we pay for it from 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.910 grid because it's a direct connection. But that's 00:18:12.910 --> 00:18:14.950 the theory. We're working through the negotiations 00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:17.450 of the practicalities of how we actually do it 00:18:17.450 --> 00:18:20.529 right now. So speaking of practicalities, is 00:18:20.529 --> 00:18:23.890 it very much about a balance between working 00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:26.069 with government, working with private enterprise, 00:18:26.150 --> 00:18:28.509 trying to bring that all together? And how challenging 00:18:28.509 --> 00:18:32.289 is that? It is both of those. And I would add 00:18:32.289 --> 00:18:34.150 the third dimension, which is where we started 00:18:34.150 --> 00:18:36.829 the conversation, which is the community. I've 00:18:36.829 --> 00:18:39.430 recently taken on the role of being a director 00:18:39.430 --> 00:18:43.450 of a local community energy group. I think the 00:18:43.450 --> 00:18:45.930 government has talked about supporting community 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:47.789 energy. And I think there's a real opportunity 00:18:47.789 --> 00:18:51.470 to actually put the three together. So there's 00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:53.869 the kind of private initiatives, which I've just 00:18:53.869 --> 00:18:56.450 mentioned in terms of the solar farm. There's 00:18:56.450 --> 00:18:58.670 the government initiatives in terms of the kind 00:18:58.670 --> 00:19:00.349 of grant support that we've had through the public 00:19:00.349 --> 00:19:03.130 sector decarbonisation scheme. But I think there's 00:19:03.130 --> 00:19:06.410 also the local community who both in terms of 00:19:06.410 --> 00:19:12.039 potentially becoming part of a... local solution 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.640 in other words taking some of the demand from 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.720 the output of these new projects but also possibly 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.099 investing in these new projects as well. So the 00:19:22.099 --> 00:19:24.680 whole idea of community energy is that people 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.559 have the opportunity to invest in renewable energy 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:29.980 projects and get a return from them. And you're 00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:32.039 seeing a huge amount of interest there from the 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:35.279 community in that kind of project? This is all 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.579 pretty new this has all happened in the last 00:19:37.579 --> 00:19:41.359 12 months but And it has been kickstarted with 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:43.839 some government funding. But yes, there's a tremendous 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.680 interest from the community in potential projects. 00:19:47.259 --> 00:19:50.400 And the local authority is behind it as well. 00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:53.200 So I think, you know, I'm hopeful that we'll 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.759 see a little bit more direction from the government 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.500 and that this will open this up as quite a big 00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:01.380 factor in the way that renewables are deployed, 00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:05.140 certainly in this part of the country where you 00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:09.450 need to get the community on side. solar farms, 00:20:09.569 --> 00:20:12.509 lots of wind turbines without the community having 00:20:12.509 --> 00:20:15.230 some ownership of it, whether it's fiscal ownership 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.269 or ownership in other ways. And do you think 00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:22.910 you need to be an expert in this area? You're 00:20:22.910 --> 00:20:25.970 talking about a community initiative and you're 00:20:25.970 --> 00:20:27.730 obviously very much behind that. You say it's 00:20:27.730 --> 00:20:31.410 taken 12 months. You're the person who can go 00:20:31.410 --> 00:20:34.269 along and talk to people about this, presumably. 00:20:34.490 --> 00:20:36.470 But do you think you need to be an expert or 00:20:36.470 --> 00:20:39.099 can anybody? get involved in something like this. 00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:40.839 I mean, we're all interested in cutting our bills 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.519 for a start, but we might not know enough about 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:45.740 carbon emissions. We might not know enough about 00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:48.339 how we're tracking that. Yeah, no, absolutely. 00:20:48.579 --> 00:20:51.119 The local community energy group, the majority 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.019 of the work we're doing at the moment is on the 00:20:53.019 --> 00:20:55.880 energy efficiency side of things, helping people 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.180 understand how they use their energy, what their 00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:03.019 bills mean in practice, what they can do to reduce 00:21:03.019 --> 00:21:05.339 their costs, and what are the opportunities in 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:08.420 their own homes as well. So we've got a team 00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:11.759 of volunteers who are doing that. And these are 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:13.700 volunteers who don't necessarily haven't had 00:21:13.700 --> 00:21:16.319 the technical training I've had, but have had 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.259 some training and have gotten the enthusiasm. 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.339 And we've kind of got a network now which is 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:25.799 sharing knowledge. So, yeah, I would say you 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:27.839 don't necessarily need to have the deep technical 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.960 knowledge. You just have to have the enthusiasm 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.740 and the willingness to learn. And you'll soon 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:35.440 get to grips with it. And the principles of all 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.039 this are fairly straightforward once you get 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.299 an idea of the appropriateness of scale and size 00:21:41.299 --> 00:21:43.940 of things. And do you think in your experience 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:49.140 that enthusiasm is driven by the need to save 00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:50.880 the planet or the need for future? Or do you 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.579 think it's driven by our pockets? I think, no, 00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:56.759 I think a lot of the enthusiasm is because of 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.259 recognition of the climate crisis and the need 00:21:59.259 --> 00:22:01.940 to make sure we pass something on to the next 00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:04.460 generation that is something they can handle. 00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:08.200 I think that is the main driver. I think it does 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.460 help focus the mind. The issues we've been through 00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:13.779 in the last two or three years in terms of energy 00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:16.779 cost, that certainly does focus the mind and 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:19.079 it does. bring it to more people's attention. 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:20.960 I think there's no doubt about that. But I think 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.180 the enthusiasm of the people getting involved 00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:26.259 in coming up with solutions, I think that's largely 00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:29.579 driven by the climate issue. Thank you. And because 00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:31.259 you're obviously at the cutting edge there at 00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:34.039 Cranfield, and you've looked at solution after 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:38.859 solution there, positive or negative, do you 00:22:38.859 --> 00:22:41.339 feel positive about the climate future for the 00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:43.680 football team that you've coached? And you've 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.059 just mentioned generations to come. How positive 00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:49.009 do you feel? I no longer coach a football team. 00:22:49.069 --> 00:22:50.869 That was more to do with when my daughter was 00:22:50.869 --> 00:22:54.269 younger. She still plays football, which is good. 00:22:54.470 --> 00:22:57.990 And I think for her peers, yeah, all this is 00:22:57.990 --> 00:23:00.690 incredibly important. My daughter is showing 00:23:00.690 --> 00:23:02.650 signs of being interested in politics. And I 00:23:02.650 --> 00:23:05.650 think I hope that she doesn't have to necessarily 00:23:05.650 --> 00:23:07.890 become somebody interested in green politics. 00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.150 But I hope she recognises, I think, the importance 00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:15.369 of things being more sustainable for the future. 00:23:15.450 --> 00:23:19.799 And yeah. So I think, yeah, I think it's incredibly 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.599 important for that generation. And Gareth, can 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:24.859 I ask what next for you in terms of your work 00:23:24.859 --> 00:23:26.779 at Cranfield, for you personally? What would 00:23:26.779 --> 00:23:29.960 you like to see being done next or indeed in 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.240 your own career? Where would you like to be next? 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:36.200 Well, I'm coming to the end of my career at Cranfield 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:39.380 in the sense that I've already taken kind of 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:41.380 semi -retirement, so I'm not working full time. 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.940 I will probably be involved here for... two or 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:47.019 three more years, and I would like to see out 00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.220 some of the projects that we're still working 00:23:49.220 --> 00:23:51.259 on. I've only just recently got involved with 00:23:51.259 --> 00:23:55.000 the Community Energy Group. I hope that we'll 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.640 see great things with that. So I think I'll still 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:02.259 be very active in looking at how sustainable 00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:05.240 energy can be applied for the next few years. 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:08.640 I do hope you'll come on the future on another 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.779 podcast and talk about the progress that Community 00:24:10.779 --> 00:24:14.359 Energy Group has made, because that sounds pioneering 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:15.920 and certainly something that we'll want to know 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:17.680 about. And many other people probably want to 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:19.039 know about that throughout the country. So that 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:22.319 sounds terribly exciting. So thank you very much 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.019 to Gareth Ellis from Cranfield University. Really 00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:27.539 appreciate your time today. There can be no doubt 00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:29.480 that climate change is the biggest challenge 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.759 of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.960 gas emissions. slow global warming. Today, we 00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.339 must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles 00:24:37.339 --> 00:24:39.400 to current and future impacts of climate change. 00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:42.460 Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:24:42.460 --> 00:24:45.579 on our climate commitments. Today, we must work 00:24:45.579 --> 00:24:48.359 for tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:51.660 to our podcast channels. And please do email 00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:56.400 us with your views and ideas at podcast at salixfinance 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.380 .co .uk. Thank you very much to Gareth. Thank 00:24:59.380 --> 00:25:03.220 you. Thank you. You've been listening to the 00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:07.039 Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:10.599 For more information about our work and to find 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:14.539 more content, please visit salixfinance .co .uk 00:25:14.539 --> 00:25:16.339 forward slash podcasts.