WEBVTT 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:10.490 This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast 00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:14.369 from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:14.369 --> 00:00:16.489 delivering on climate change, our collective 00:00:16.489 --> 00:00:18.969 challenge. I am Hannah Walker and I believe the 00:00:18.969 --> 00:00:21.370 best way to communicate a message is by being 00:00:21.370 --> 00:00:23.289 passionate about what you are talking about. 00:00:23.550 --> 00:00:25.829 Through that passion, I believe you take people 00:00:25.829 --> 00:00:28.510 with you and create action using your influence 00:00:28.510 --> 00:00:31.570 to make change and make a difference. Our task 00:00:31.570 --> 00:00:35.500 today is to get all of us to net zero. My guest 00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:38.079 today is a Salix colleague, actually, of mine, 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:40.579 and that's Assistant Director Davide Natuzzi, 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:43.820 who's going to talk to us about his work at Salix. 00:00:44.060 --> 00:00:48.299 Davide works in the carbon energy and technical 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:51.539 side of our business, delivering schemes across 00:00:51.539 --> 00:00:54.960 the public sector. Hello, Davide. Hello, Hannah. 00:00:55.179 --> 00:00:57.560 Thank you very much for your time today. Now, 00:00:57.579 --> 00:00:59.079 it's wonderful to be able to sit down with a 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:01.939 colleague and discuss this agenda. But can you 00:01:01.939 --> 00:01:03.740 please tell us, before we start talking about 00:01:03.740 --> 00:01:05.900 your work today, can you tell us a little bit 00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:08.060 about your career? Because your background is 00:01:08.060 --> 00:01:11.599 very much engineering and technical. My background 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.439 is an environmental engineer. I graduated in 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.879 Italy and I spent a bit of time there working 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:24.560 as an engineer. in the sustainability sector 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:30.120 and my career actually really started from looking 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.040 to like a waste management and then actually 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:37.879 shift to more like energy efficiency project. 00:01:38.260 --> 00:01:42.859 It was actually in 2008 when in Italy and also 00:01:42.859 --> 00:01:45.799 like in Europe there was like you know a big 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:50.500 like shift in terms like a regulation for buildings 00:01:51.530 --> 00:01:53.870 So there was a lot of, like, work to do, a lot 00:01:53.870 --> 00:01:56.189 of services that, you know, various companies 00:01:56.189 --> 00:01:58.950 and also a lot of, like, a public sector were 00:01:58.950 --> 00:02:02.549 starting to be interested, you know, to have, 00:02:02.609 --> 00:02:06.829 like, buildings more energy efficient. And then 00:02:06.829 --> 00:02:10.310 actually, you know, I decided that Italy was 00:02:10.310 --> 00:02:14.530 maybe too small for me, so I just, like, you 00:02:14.530 --> 00:02:17.030 know, decided to do a bit more experience outside 00:02:17.030 --> 00:02:19.250 Italy and spend a bit of time in Australia, and 00:02:19.250 --> 00:02:24.080 then actually I... came in the UK, where I really 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:28.800 started to work for a facility management company 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:34.259 and the role and the purpose was the same, always 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:37.939 in terms like energy efficiency, energy management, 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:44.879 environment, and working for one specific university, 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.360 the University of London. And it was actually 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:50.240 a great experience, you know, because I was on 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:52.699 site and see the project, you know, happening 00:02:52.699 --> 00:02:56.219 and, you know, the energy saving and the carbon 00:02:56.219 --> 00:02:59.800 saving to be, you know, to be really like, you 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.479 know, in the real world rather than like, you 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:08.120 know, on a paper or on design. And then actually 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.620 CELIC, you know, come as an opportunity and it 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:15.340 was great, you know, to, because... The public 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:18.300 sector, the carbonisation scheme, was really 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:21.319 like a, since like a phase one. For me, it's 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:25.240 been a great experience. So at Salix, your job, 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:28.099 if we can explain it to our listeners who might 00:03:28.099 --> 00:03:30.060 not know, I mean, you've moved from waste management 00:03:30.060 --> 00:03:33.080 to energy efficiency, but at Salix, it's your 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.319 job to support the technical teams with due diligence. 00:03:35.930 --> 00:03:38.810 for grant and loan applications, as well as assisting 00:03:38.810 --> 00:03:42.430 governments in developing new policies and decarbonisation 00:03:42.430 --> 00:03:47.210 schemes. So that seems pretty vast. You're talking 00:03:47.210 --> 00:03:49.569 about policy. We're talking about due diligence. 00:03:50.110 --> 00:03:52.090 How do you kind of weigh that up? What's the 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:54.009 balance in the role that you're doing? How much 00:03:54.009 --> 00:03:56.830 of your time is spent working alongside departments 00:03:56.830 --> 00:04:00.770 on policy, for example? I mean, actually, there 00:04:00.770 --> 00:04:07.139 is, I would say, a big chunk of time that we 00:04:07.139 --> 00:04:11.060 spent with the department to really do a bit 00:04:11.060 --> 00:04:15.819 of analysis and also to give a bit of feedback 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:19.540 to them in terms of their analysis because the 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:22.199 policy is pretty much with the department in 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:26.120 terms of the design of the policy. And the work 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:29.800 that we do with them is just to help them to 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.339 validate what is actually they have come up as 00:04:33.339 --> 00:04:38.850 a kind of changing criteria based on the previous 00:04:38.850 --> 00:04:41.589 experience, based on the data that we provide 00:04:41.589 --> 00:04:46.850 them. So there is a lot of interaction for the 00:04:46.850 --> 00:04:52.730 policy. And we look into the technical bit. We 00:04:52.730 --> 00:04:55.550 look at what actually can be done in terms of 00:04:55.550 --> 00:05:01.860 to achieve more carbon with less money. and sometimes 00:05:01.860 --> 00:05:04.220 it's just like a guess in terms like you know 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:08.370 we use like the data for do some modeling But 00:05:08.370 --> 00:05:10.889 still, actually, you know, we don't really, it's 00:05:10.889 --> 00:05:12.350 difficult to predict, you know, what is actually 00:05:12.350 --> 00:05:14.709 would be the change in behaviour of the client. 00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:17.990 So it's always like a kind of like a cycle in 00:05:17.990 --> 00:05:20.269 each of the, you know, PSTS especially phases. 00:05:20.689 --> 00:05:22.970 Thank you. Because the public sector decarbonisation 00:05:22.970 --> 00:05:26.089 scheme is a major part of the work that you do 00:05:26.089 --> 00:05:28.230 here at Salix. And you've been here now, what, 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:31.029 three, four years? Four years. Four years. And 00:05:31.029 --> 00:05:33.990 you've been working very closely with the department 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:36.850 on the evolution of that scheme. One thing that's 00:05:36.850 --> 00:05:39.430 not changing. it seems, is the urgency to address 00:05:39.430 --> 00:05:43.069 climate action, climate change. How do you think 00:05:43.069 --> 00:05:46.290 that policy, that scheme has evolved over the 00:05:46.290 --> 00:05:55.509 last few years? I mean, actually, the big actual 00:05:55.509 --> 00:06:00.149 change that I've seen across all phases of PSDS 00:06:00.149 --> 00:06:07.589 was to really have a more... a bit like a more 00:06:07.589 --> 00:06:12.470 information and data during the assessment in 00:06:12.470 --> 00:06:16.949 order to really make sure that the project that 00:06:16.949 --> 00:06:19.189 has actually funded or actually you know sound 00:06:19.189 --> 00:06:23.290 since the beginning although even actually even 00:06:23.290 --> 00:06:27.589 though there is always like some exemption but 00:06:27.589 --> 00:06:29.870 i've seen actually the big shift was more like 00:06:29.870 --> 00:06:33.029 you know to to the greater like a level of data 00:06:33.029 --> 00:06:36.860 and you know understanding at the really early 00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:40.819 stage of of the process and then actually the 00:06:40.819 --> 00:06:45.040 shift was also like from like you know a scheme 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:48.500 like in phase one where there was not really 00:06:48.500 --> 00:06:51.779 like a priority in terms of like you know the 00:06:51.779 --> 00:06:56.100 project to more something like towards like you 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:59.680 know the the really like the the the transformation 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.199 you know the decarbonization so the focus on 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:08.069 gas boiler removals end of life. So this was 00:07:08.069 --> 00:07:11.870 actually perhaps the big change between phase 00:07:11.870 --> 00:07:14.649 one and phase two and then actually all the others. 00:07:15.449 --> 00:07:18.009 And then actually the other one, of course, in 00:07:18.009 --> 00:07:22.350 phase four is the competitive model. Because 00:07:22.350 --> 00:07:26.089 the first come, first serve kind of like approach 00:07:26.089 --> 00:07:33.029 doesn't really allow to try to drive down the 00:07:33.029 --> 00:07:37.410 cost. of, you know, of decarbonisation. So with 00:07:37.410 --> 00:07:39.829 the phase four, like with like a semi -competitive 00:07:39.829 --> 00:07:43.149 model, the department, you know, is trying to, 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:46.269 you know, to really, you know, to really to achieve 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:48.269 more carbon with like, you know, less money. 00:07:48.350 --> 00:07:50.750 So to create like competition and try to, you 00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:54.670 know, to reduce like, you know, to push the market, 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:56.389 you know, to find like a solution to, you know, 00:07:56.389 --> 00:07:58.910 to reduce the cost of low carbon solutions. So 00:07:58.910 --> 00:08:01.069 that has been quite a change over the last few 00:08:01.069 --> 00:08:05.089 years in that scheme. And sustainability, can 00:08:05.089 --> 00:08:08.970 we talk about that for a moment? Because it's 00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:11.129 such a big word, isn't it, when people talk about 00:08:11.129 --> 00:08:13.589 sustainability? I'm not sure if everybody or 00:08:13.589 --> 00:08:16.149 all of us completely understand what it is, but 00:08:16.149 --> 00:08:19.509 you're a sustainability expert. And perhaps you 00:08:19.509 --> 00:08:21.470 could explain to us what that means and what 00:08:21.470 --> 00:08:24.889 do you mean by sustainability? Some people might 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:27.509 just say it's just environmentalism and brush 00:08:27.509 --> 00:08:32.259 this aside. an explanation, if we can, of what 00:08:32.259 --> 00:08:35.539 you mean by sustainability and how is that helping 00:08:35.539 --> 00:08:38.679 you drive your goals here at Salix and perhaps 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:41.879 also in your own career and your own life? Thank 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:46.399 you. I mean, actually, for me, in terms of like 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.820 a definition, sustainability means like, you 00:08:49.820 --> 00:08:56.759 know, to actually progress in a way that is actually 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:01.320 sustainable. um this means like a different you 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:06.019 know different like um approach like to to progressions 00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:08.820 and to yeah to progressions like you know you 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:12.620 need to be really mindful about like um to grow 00:09:12.620 --> 00:09:16.220 the economy of course but also like uh with some 00:09:16.220 --> 00:09:18.820 focus around like you know what is actually this 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:20.480 means for the environment, for example. What 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.480 does it mean in our everyday lives, though, when 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.399 you're talking about growing the economy? We 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:27.460 all talk about we want to be more sustainable, 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:30.879 sustainable. What does that mean for me? It's 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:34.080 like the action that we do. We need to always 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:38.019 think it's actually sustainable for the environment, 00:09:38.259 --> 00:09:45.679 but not only, but also for the economy. An example 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:52.779 could be I don't know, like a shift from electric 00:09:52.779 --> 00:09:55.059 car, you know, from like, you know, fuel car 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:58.480 to electric cars, which is something that, you 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.799 know, it's going to be more sustainable potentially, 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:03.279 you know, to use electric cars. But this change 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:07.000 can really, cannot happen in one day or in one 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:10.919 year. You need to have, you know, allow the system 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:13.879 to really, you know, embrace like the change 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:17.399 because there will be an implication about people, 00:10:18.299 --> 00:10:25.139 economy, jobs. So all this kind of decarbonisation 00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:37.620 actions must be sustainable for every angle of 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:43.259 our world. And this means that people still need 00:10:43.259 --> 00:10:48.179 to have a job. The environment needs to be actually 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:52.059 protected. So this is actually perhaps the meaning 00:10:52.059 --> 00:10:54.360 of sustainability. Thank you, because it seems 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.799 it is a good thing to do, but is there a danger 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:00.340 that it's become a bit of a buzzword? Everybody 00:11:00.340 --> 00:11:04.320 wants to be sustainable. We say that this is 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:06.500 sustainable. We're doing this in a sustainable 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:10.899 way. Is there a danger that it's overused? Yeah, 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.019 potentially, potentially there is this danger. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:18.100 But it is always in the back of the mind of the 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:22.059 people to try to do small actions every day in 00:11:22.059 --> 00:11:25.279 a sustainable way. So an example in everyday 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:29.960 life is actually your waste. For example, in 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:35.639 my family, I tend to recycle everything, like 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:38.259 100%, which I believe is actually a sustainable 00:11:38.259 --> 00:11:43.990 kind of action to do. Yeah, I agree with you. 00:11:45.769 --> 00:11:51.049 Perhaps, you know, this must be remind in people's 00:11:51.049 --> 00:11:52.629 mind, you know, in terms of like a definition. 00:11:54.149 --> 00:11:56.210 I mean, this leads me on to my next question, 00:11:56.210 --> 00:11:58.590 because you've got this background in waste management. 00:11:59.029 --> 00:12:01.210 And it seems very pertinent that you're now working 00:12:01.210 --> 00:12:04.570 on energy efficiency measures and scrutinizing 00:12:04.570 --> 00:12:06.889 those measures across the public sector, because 00:12:06.889 --> 00:12:09.330 we've got these incredibly ambitious goals that 00:12:09.330 --> 00:12:12.220 we need to reach. We all know, I mean, I think 00:12:12.220 --> 00:12:14.899 it's a general agreement or 97 % of scientists 00:12:14.899 --> 00:12:17.679 know that we've got global warming and the temperatures 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:20.879 have heated up over the last 30 years. That is 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:25.279 a fact. But we're continuing. Here we are, 2025, 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:28.700 and we're continuing to fill up landfills. Our 00:12:28.700 --> 00:12:32.600 air is carbon saturated. But so how do you balance 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.860 up the desire to be sustainable and the economics? 00:12:37.549 --> 00:12:41.629 That's a big question. It's a really difficult 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:47.950 question. Essentially, what I've been saying, 00:12:48.250 --> 00:12:52.990 to be sustainable doesn't mean that you need 00:12:52.990 --> 00:12:56.389 to switch off your light at home and just live 00:12:56.389 --> 00:13:06.740 in the dark. You need to find a solution. you 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:11.679 know, find technical solutions sometimes to improve 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.799 what, you know, what we got. So LED, for example, 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:18.379 was like, you know, like a good actually kind 00:13:18.379 --> 00:13:23.460 of like, you know, innovation. So LED consume 00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:28.940 much less than like a normal, like a light. So 00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:31.399 this means like we can keep like the light on, 00:13:31.580 --> 00:13:35.820 but we can use much less. So it's looking for 00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:39.009 those innovative... solutions. And while we're 00:13:39.009 --> 00:13:42.429 talking about technology, we look a lot, we talk 00:13:42.429 --> 00:13:46.009 a lot at Salix, certainly, about heat pumps, 00:13:46.330 --> 00:13:48.269 ground source heat pumps, air source heat pumps. 00:13:48.389 --> 00:13:51.289 We're talking about building management control 00:13:51.289 --> 00:13:53.950 systems, being more efficient in the way that 00:13:53.950 --> 00:13:56.389 temperatures are controlled. And I know that 00:13:56.389 --> 00:13:59.250 you're a real expert in those areas. But what 00:13:59.250 --> 00:14:03.110 else could we also touched on geothermal? I think 00:14:03.110 --> 00:14:05.990 we also talk about geothermal. But in terms of 00:14:06.250 --> 00:14:09.769 innovation and technology, presumably we can't 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:15.129 go fast enough in this arena. Yeah, I mean, yes. 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:18.129 I mean, for the target, you know, we got in terms 00:14:18.129 --> 00:14:23.429 of like policies. Yeah, exactly. You know, to 00:14:23.429 --> 00:14:28.610 innovate takes time. And also, you know, a period 00:14:28.610 --> 00:14:30.730 of time that you also need to test in the new 00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:33.019 innovation. I mean, perhaps, you know, we can 00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:36.500 use, like, examples of where, you know, the innovation 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:39.600 was actually, you know, really taken board and 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.919 really, you know, applied in a very quick way, 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.759 but still actually will need, like, some time 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:47.259 before, you know, we'll be able to, you know, 00:14:47.259 --> 00:14:52.600 to apply. Perhaps, you know, if every stakeholder 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.500 in the grant scheme are actually involved and, 00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.360 you know, are actually really interested, you 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:03.409 know, to make this process, faster and an example 00:15:03.409 --> 00:15:07.049 could be like you know the department or uh yeah 00:15:07.049 --> 00:15:10.789 that's nuts for example around innovation they 00:15:10.789 --> 00:15:14.529 can really try to put in place like some kind 00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:17.870 of mechanism where actually new solution also 00:15:17.870 --> 00:15:20.750 like more funding has been given to like to you 00:15:20.750 --> 00:15:23.090 know to innovate like in a solution but also 00:15:23.090 --> 00:15:25.629 like you know to fast track the implementation 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:28.529 of this like a new technology new solution so 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.259 Potentially this is possible, it just needs a 00:15:32.259 --> 00:15:36.360 change. It needs change. And I'm incredibly inspired, 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.019 and I'm not an engineer and I'm not a scientist, 00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:39.919 but I do go along and look at some of these projects 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:42.000 and I meet the people behind them, the really 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.100 inspiring people across the public sector who 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:46.679 are leading big hospital projects or school projects, 00:15:46.899 --> 00:15:51.159 university projects. And I do see a lot of energy 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:55.610 and a lot of commitment. and excitement around 00:15:55.610 --> 00:15:59.090 the kind of technology. Do you see that every 00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:03.269 day in your job? Are you surprised by the solutions 00:16:03.269 --> 00:16:06.009 people are coming up with? Do you think we're 00:16:06.009 --> 00:16:11.110 coming up with those solutions fast enough? How 00:16:11.110 --> 00:16:14.210 does that impact your work, what you see, and 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:17.769 also what you see when you go out on site? Okay, 00:16:17.830 --> 00:16:23.590 so to be honest, Since phase one, PSTS, PSTS 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:26.389 really pushed a lot in terms of innovation because 00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:29.669 when actually there is a lot of money available 00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:31.950 for projects and there is a lot of interest in 00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:35.289 the public sector, but also the private sector 00:16:35.289 --> 00:16:37.610 in terms of to really use this money also for 00:16:37.610 --> 00:16:43.090 business, but also to create something that is 00:16:43.090 --> 00:16:46.090 going to work. So yeah, we have seen a lot in 00:16:46.090 --> 00:16:50.419 the first... two or three years of PSDS. And 00:16:50.419 --> 00:16:53.440 now it's actually, you know, what we have seen 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.620 actually big actually changes, big actually innovation, 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:01.179 big actually new technology. But then actually 00:17:01.179 --> 00:17:03.379 now, you know, the curve in terms of like, you 00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:06.299 know, the curve of innovation is flattening a 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:11.309 little bit. What we have seen recently, and I 00:17:11.309 --> 00:17:13.890 see sometimes this in the project, especially 00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:17.390 for phase four, which is still actually not in 00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:19.329 the assessment, so we haven't really seen the 00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:21.309 details of the project that we received in terms 00:17:21.309 --> 00:17:25.490 of applications submitted, but what we received 00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:28.890 in terms of queries before the submission, there 00:17:28.890 --> 00:17:33.049 was some interesting solution in terms of, not 00:17:33.049 --> 00:17:37.660 just on... equipment, like a new innovation equipment, 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:42.619 but the way how this will be setting within like, 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.859 you know, the buildings to try to achieve more 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:49.660 carbon with less money. So an example could be 00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:54.279 like, you know, to introduce more like heat storage 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:58.819 within the plant room. So like having this means 00:17:58.819 --> 00:18:01.660 like having like a smaller heat pumps that can 00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:05.569 work like with with like other equipment in the 00:18:05.569 --> 00:18:09.509 plant room. So we see something in terms of like 00:18:09.509 --> 00:18:13.190 innovation recently. And of course, when we go 00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:17.369 inside, we can see, you know, the solution that 00:18:17.369 --> 00:18:22.430 has been actually part of the PSDS awarded project. 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.579 Super. So we've talked about some of the design 00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:30.279 and engineering solutions. And as an engineer, 00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:31.960 you know that the built environment is responsible 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.259 for about 40 % of the UK's carbon emissions. 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:37.690 So we can reduce... carbon emissions in the build. 00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:39.670 And we've talked about some of the ways that 00:18:39.670 --> 00:18:42.329 can be done to achieve that. But as an engineer 00:18:42.329 --> 00:18:45.769 with a huge amount of experience, what else could 00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:48.769 you be doing? I know you're very keen on sharing 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:51.609 knowledge and you write for various publications. 00:18:51.950 --> 00:18:54.529 But what else do you think you should be doing, 00:18:54.569 --> 00:18:57.210 whether you're doing it at Salix or whether you're 00:18:57.210 --> 00:18:59.910 doing it as somebody who cares about the future 00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:04.809 and the way we move forward on this agenda? My 00:19:04.809 --> 00:19:07.990 personal view is that I got, like, you know, 00:19:07.990 --> 00:19:12.650 in my, I mean, in terms of, like, a goal, personal 00:19:12.650 --> 00:19:17.410 goal, professional goal, I tend to, you know, 00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:19.190 I really actually enjoy, like, you know, the 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:23.809 solution that's called, like, passive action 00:19:23.809 --> 00:19:27.230 solution. This means, like, you know, to really 00:19:27.230 --> 00:19:32.710 focus on installation first. Same as, actually, 00:19:32.809 --> 00:19:38.089 PSTS. but with a big focus in order to really 00:19:38.089 --> 00:19:43.890 reduce the energy demand of the building. So 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:48.910 in that way, the building would be quite sustainable 00:19:48.910 --> 00:19:56.089 because regardless of the type of heat system 00:19:56.089 --> 00:20:00.470 you put in the building, this building will always 00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:06.369 reduce consume less energy. So this is, for me, 00:20:06.450 --> 00:20:09.450 it's quite important because, you know, now we 00:20:09.450 --> 00:20:12.029 actually, we got like, you know, the shift between 00:20:12.029 --> 00:20:15.710 fossil fuel to electric, but now, you know, we 00:20:15.710 --> 00:20:18.009 got like the challenge to really make sure there 00:20:18.009 --> 00:20:21.269 is enough load to, you know, to guarantee energy 00:20:21.269 --> 00:20:25.069 in the buildings that run like on electricity. 00:20:27.529 --> 00:20:30.329 But with that kind of solution, you probably 00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:33.490 will reduce the demand anyway, regardless of 00:20:33.490 --> 00:20:35.529 the energy. It can be like a different energy 00:20:35.529 --> 00:20:38.170 in 20 years. Maybe there will be like a shift 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:41.690 into hydrogen, who knows? But the buildings will 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.210 require less energy anyway, little energy. So 00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:50.509 to me, that should be actually the direction 00:20:50.509 --> 00:20:55.549 for the next 20, 40 years, really to try to get 00:20:55.549 --> 00:21:00.549 as much as possible you know, building, really 00:21:00.549 --> 00:21:02.609 like, you know, to focus on the passive element. 00:21:02.910 --> 00:21:05.049 The passive element is the element that doesn't 00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:07.390 move in the building, so insulation, fabric, 00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:11.029 rather than the active, which is, you know, the 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:12.609 mechanical part. And are you finding in projects 00:21:12.609 --> 00:21:14.509 that come to you, by the time they come to you, 00:21:14.569 --> 00:21:17.369 people are taking that approach? Some of them, 00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:21.829 some of them, but very little. Perhaps they use 00:21:21.829 --> 00:21:26.049 the same framework. that has been actually built 00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:31.690 for the passive kind of solution, but still actually 00:21:31.690 --> 00:21:36.890 not that much. But it's a lot of focus on system, 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:39.670 like on the mechanical part or the electrical 00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:43.029 part. We have seen a lot of good insulation projects, 00:21:43.210 --> 00:21:48.650 like windows, fabric, but the focus is still 00:21:48.650 --> 00:21:53.440 on the mechanical bit. And there's a big emphasis, 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:55.859 I think, in your work on that whole building 00:21:55.859 --> 00:21:58.180 approach, isn't there, overall? What does that 00:21:58.180 --> 00:22:02.619 mean? It means like, yeah, exactly. So you don't 00:22:02.619 --> 00:22:06.519 just assess your building for your heating system. 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:10.940 You assess the capabilities of your building 00:22:10.940 --> 00:22:15.440 to really retain the heat. So you start from 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:20.700 the fabric to understand if there is an intervention 00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:25.180 needed. Sometimes it's actually obvious, like 00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:28.680 a single glazed windows are really like very 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:33.500 poor in terms of like heat, to retain heat. So 00:22:33.500 --> 00:22:36.140 the double glazing or the triple glazing is the 00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:40.400 solution. Add like external wall insulation can 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.759 help. And then actually after you got like you're 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.380 building in a good actually shape in terms of 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:50.700 like able to maintain the heat. then you can 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:56.180 look to the heating system, like the electrical, 00:22:56.220 --> 00:22:59.819 the mechanical bit. But also the whole building 00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:02.380 approach means to make sure that there is also 00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:08.059 some element of renewable energy. So if you can 00:23:08.059 --> 00:23:13.259 apply PV panels that can really support the help 00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:15.599 with the demand of electricity for the building, 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:20.500 or like solar thermal. So you've got like a different 00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:22.900 solution. So to look like the building like as 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:28.220 a holistic way and try to get like the best quality 00:23:28.220 --> 00:23:31.819 buildings that you can have and not just like 00:23:31.819 --> 00:23:34.579 a focus on one element rather than the other. 00:23:34.940 --> 00:23:37.460 We're very much focused on what we're doing here 00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:40.960 at Salix and we're very much focused obviously 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:44.450 on UK carbon emissions. How do you feel when 00:23:44.450 --> 00:23:46.769 we think we're doing everything we can, but we're 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:51.990 also comparing ourselves with China, India, the 00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:54.769 United States, and looking at their carbon emissions, 00:23:55.190 --> 00:24:00.630 how positive do you feel about the work here 00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:03.990 and how it compares to other nations? To be honest, 00:24:04.170 --> 00:24:08.450 I'm very positive. And I'm actually glad that 00:24:08.450 --> 00:24:13.380 I decided to move to the UK because... really 00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:15.660 like it was probably the place where actually 00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:19.519 really you can do something about because the 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.819 policy really like you know support this kind 00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:28.460 of like you know um goal um so definitely in 00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:32.119 the uk can be a good example for for the world 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:35.319 and i'm hoping that this is going to be the case 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:38.519 um i don't know how much you know how much is 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.920 actually has been done to try to know to To show, 00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:45.400 to present, you know, to really like advertise. 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.839 Shout out about what you're doing. Yes. So it's 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.359 Salix. You come into work every day. We've got 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:55.839 a real flavour of what drives you and your passion 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.680 and how you feel about the technology, etc. But 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.799 what, so it's kind of a silly question, really, 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.180 if I asked you what most despise you about your 00:25:05.180 --> 00:25:08.799 work at Salix and within the public sector? I 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:13.710 mean, actually, people in Salix are great. So, 00:25:13.710 --> 00:25:16.089 my team is actually, you know, I'm quite really 00:25:16.089 --> 00:25:20.950 happy, you know, to support the team in terms 00:25:20.950 --> 00:25:24.150 of, like, you know, to achieve what the department 00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:26.069 wants us to achieve in terms of, like, you know, 00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:30.910 the schemes. My team is actually, you know, is 00:25:30.910 --> 00:25:35.210 made by young, actually, members that are really 00:25:35.210 --> 00:25:37.450 keen in terms of, like, you know, to really make 00:25:37.450 --> 00:25:42.059 this world a better place. So very focused on 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:46.160 sustainability, energy, efficiency, all the policies. 00:25:46.420 --> 00:25:49.859 So it's very driven in that way. They feel like 00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:53.220 the purpose in this. And this has actually really 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:57.839 helped me myself also to come every day in the 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:01.319 office or working from home with them because 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:05.700 I can feel it, this kind of sense of purpose. 00:26:06.579 --> 00:26:09.000 And also the public sector, I mean, actually 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.940 to do something for, you know, for the society. 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.519 It's definitely something that for me, you know, 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:20.099 make myself like, you know, happy to wake up 00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:22.880 in the morning to do something for our society 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.119 rather than like, you know, just for myself, 00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:29.640 you know, to have like a purpose is definitely... 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.259 So you feel like we're certainly on a mission. 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:33.839 Yes, we are. We say we're on a mission to save 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:36.640 the planet here at Salix. And those public sector 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.980 buildings, of course, saving on those... carbon 00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.740 emissions and decreasing that carbon footprint. 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.160 But of course, a lot of those buildings that 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:47.720 you are initially looking at, whether it's through 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:51.000 applications and throughout your dialogue with 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.319 these projects, is a lot of these buildings are 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.000 being brought to life again, aren't they? They're 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.440 being given new leases of life, which has been 00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:00.759 inspired by installing energy efficiency measures. 00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:02.720 I mean, so many, whether it's leisure centres 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.180 that might otherwise possibly have closed, whether 00:27:05.180 --> 00:27:08.079 it's libraries that are being given new life, 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.480 those community buildings are indeed becoming 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.420 a greater use, aren't they, across the country? 00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:17.740 Yeah. Thanks to these projects. Yeah, exactly, 00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:21.680 exactly. I agree, I agree. Definitely, it's not 00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:25.319 just like about energy or carbon saving, but 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:28.279 also like to give back to the community, like 00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:31.319 good facilities where actually people can... 00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:35.140 can spend time you know meeting like in a place 00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:37.900 so definitely this is it's going to help like 00:27:37.900 --> 00:27:42.099 not just the the carbon emission but also like 00:27:42.099 --> 00:27:45.859 the social aspect feel we were at a school recently 00:27:45.859 --> 00:27:48.160 actually and the head teacher said now we've 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.700 got better controlled temperatures thanks to 00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:53.380 these the energy saving measures which were funded 00:27:53.380 --> 00:27:55.059 by, happened to be funded by the public sector 00:27:55.059 --> 00:27:57.200 decarbonisation scheme. She said now the children, 00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:58.880 instead of shuffling around with their coats 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:00.940 on, coats off, feeling hot, feeling cold, they 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.759 can just get on with the job of learning. So 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:06.700 it makes it a better environment. That must be 00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:08.480 one of the reasons why you come into work every 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:13.240 day. OK, my final question today, Davide, is 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:17.019 we've got six or years less to meet the UN sustainable 00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:20.279 goals, development goals. Do you feel positive 00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:23.299 or negative about that? Something in the middle, 00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:27.259 maybe. Thank you. Well, thank you very much for 00:28:27.259 --> 00:28:29.339 your time today, Davide. That's absolutely superb 00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:32.059 that you've taken time out to speak to us for 00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:36.089 our podcast series. We appreciate your time and 00:28:36.089 --> 00:28:38.750 it gives us such a great insight into your work 00:28:38.750 --> 00:28:41.769 here at Salix as part of our decarbonisation 00:28:41.769 --> 00:28:44.089 dialogue. There can be no doubt that climate 00:28:44.089 --> 00:28:46.269 change is the biggest challenge of our time. 00:28:46.529 --> 00:28:48.990 Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:52.309 to slow global warming. Today, we must act for 00:28:52.309 --> 00:28:54.690 tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current 00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:57.609 and future impacts of climate change. Today, 00:28:57.690 --> 00:29:00.250 we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:29:00.250 --> 00:29:03.190 on our climate commitments. And today, we work 00:29:03.190 --> 00:29:05.990 for tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe 00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:09.109 to our podcast series. And please do email your 00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:12.450 suggestions, views to our podcast email address, 00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:17.130 which is podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. Thank 00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:20.970 you. Thank you. You've been listening to the 00:29:20.970 --> 00:29:24.769 Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. 00:29:25.339 --> 00:29:28.339 For more information about our work and to find 00:29:28.339 --> 00:29:32.259 more content, please visit salixfinance .co .uk 00:29:32.259 --> 00:29:33.980 forward slash podcasts