WEBVTT 00:00:06.730 --> 00:00:09.550 You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, 00:00:09.570 --> 00:00:13.250 a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation 00:00:13.250 --> 00:00:16.190 Dialogue, delivering on climate change, our collective 00:00:16.190 --> 00:00:18.609 challenge. I am Hannah Walker, and I believe 00:00:18.609 --> 00:00:20.969 that the best way to communicate a message is 00:00:20.969 --> 00:00:23.350 by being passionate about what you are talking 00:00:23.350 --> 00:00:25.710 about. Through that passion, I believe you take 00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:28.190 people with you and create action using your 00:00:28.190 --> 00:00:30.530 influence to make change and make a difference. 00:00:31.030 --> 00:00:35.090 Our task today is to get all of us to net zero. 00:00:36.189 --> 00:00:38.750 Welcome to my guest today, and that's our very 00:00:38.750 --> 00:00:41.969 own Salix Chief Executive, Kevin Holland. Thank 00:00:41.969 --> 00:00:44.929 you very much for your time today. Kevin, can 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:46.969 we start by talking a little bit about your career? 00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:49.289 You've gone from being a diplomat, having worked 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:51.409 across the world, to working on post-Brexit 00:00:51.409 --> 00:00:53.490 trading arrangements for Invest Northern Ireland, 00:00:53.689 --> 00:00:57.770 to now tackling climate change. How did you get 00:00:57.770 --> 00:01:01.030 here, Kevin? Thank you, Hannah. Happy to talk 00:01:01.030 --> 00:01:02.909 about that. Well, listen, the first thing is 00:01:02.909 --> 00:01:05.010 I'm very happy with the place I'm at. I've got 00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:07.670 a fantastic role in a kind of fantastic company 00:01:07.670 --> 00:01:10.430 and we have a real chance to make a difference. 00:01:11.370 --> 00:01:13.769 How I've got here is really from doing three 00:01:13.769 --> 00:01:16.950 different things. Fundamentally, I'm a scientist. 00:01:16.989 --> 00:01:20.609 I'm a chemist by background. I like the science 00:01:20.609 --> 00:01:22.890 of chemistry. I like the creativity of chemistry. 00:01:23.189 --> 00:01:26.109 And a lot of my career has been based on data 00:01:26.109 --> 00:01:28.890 and using evidence to make decisions or to make 00:01:28.890 --> 00:01:32.329 recommendations. I had real pleasure bringing 00:01:32.329 --> 00:01:35.469 new products to market when I started in chemistry 00:01:35.469 --> 00:01:38.069 and really trying to make tangible things out 00:01:38.069 --> 00:01:41.379 of evidence and out of science. But then I've 00:01:41.379 --> 00:01:44.019 also had 10 years' experience running businesses. 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.560 So if you create new innovations, then it's also 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:50.799 very important that people are able to have access 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.739 to them and to use them. So I spent a lot of 00:01:54.739 --> 00:01:57.340 time trying to run global businesses, particularly 00:01:57.340 --> 00:01:59.959 around healthcare, which is a very mission-driven 00:01:59.959 --> 00:02:02.280 business to be in, trying to improve the lives 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:04.920 of people and patients around the world, and 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:07.040 trying to help businesses improve the way that 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.560 patients can access new drugs, new treatments. 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:14.879 that people can lead better lives. But then after 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:16.719 spending a lot of time in business, I realised 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.699 that one is your primary funder is often the 00:02:19.699 --> 00:02:22.280 government. And if you really want to be successful, 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:24.800 if you really want patients to have best access, 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:27.080 you need to understand how governments think. 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:29.439 So I thought the only way to really understand 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:32.159 that is to go and join them. So I crossed over 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.139 the other side from private sector to public 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:38.740 and have spent a number of years in roles for 00:02:38.740 --> 00:02:41.680 the UK government, partly in China, looking at 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:43.789 how to improve access to health care. and then 00:02:43.789 --> 00:02:46.430 partly in Northern Ireland looking at how can 00:02:46.430 --> 00:02:48.830 we improve the economy, provide people with jobs 00:02:48.830 --> 00:02:53.409 and kind of good places to work within the economy 00:02:53.409 --> 00:02:56.289 there. I recently joined Salix. I joined in last 00:02:56.289 --> 00:02:59.590 year in 2024 and I've been really impressed so 00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:02.669 far with the company and what it can do and the 00:03:02.669 --> 00:03:06.710 mission we have to help us save the planet. Thank 00:03:06.710 --> 00:03:08.909 you, because you talk a lot there about creativity, 00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:12.449 innovation and mission. You talked about health 00:03:12.449 --> 00:03:15.050 care and mission to get people the drugs that 00:03:15.050 --> 00:03:17.430 they need at the right time in the right place. 00:03:17.550 --> 00:03:21.150 So that vision and that mission. Tell me about 00:03:21.150 --> 00:03:24.800 your vision for Salix. So Salix has got a fantastic 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:28.879 history and I think has got a very powerful future 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:32.439 ahead. The history has been around for over 20 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.699 years. During that time, it has made a significant 00:03:35.699 --> 00:03:39.180 difference to the levels of carbon dioxide across 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:44.280 the UK and has improved buildings and homes for 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.879 a number of people. It's done that by providing 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.780 funding, actually, so grant funding and loan 00:03:50.780 --> 00:03:54.620 funding to help buildings change, to become more 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:57.900 carbon neutral, to help reduce the usage of gas, 00:03:58.020 --> 00:04:02.960 to reduce the usage of oil, but also to run more 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.360 cost effectively and to provide a better living 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:10.810 and working environment. Going forward, the expertise 00:04:10.810 --> 00:04:13.669 and the experience that Salix has built will 00:04:13.669 --> 00:04:16.449 make a big difference to the UK as it tries to 00:04:16.449 --> 00:04:19.290 meet these almost impossible goals that we face 00:04:19.290 --> 00:04:23.589 going forward. And Salix, the vision I have for 00:04:23.589 --> 00:04:27.209 it, will be a major contributor to the future 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:30.889 improvements of the buildings across the UK. 00:04:31.029 --> 00:04:33.250 We know there's a really big challenge to be 00:04:33.250 --> 00:04:37.370 done. Salix has built a fantastic team with expertise. 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.540 technical experience and an ability to fund the 00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:44.759 right people, assess projects and help people 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:47.579 make the right kind of decisions in their way 00:04:47.579 --> 00:04:50.920 forward towards the pathway to net zero. And 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:54.079 I think there are many ways that the UK government 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.800 will need to tackle climate change. Salix will 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.939 be a part of it as part of Team UK for the UK 00:05:00.939 --> 00:05:03.100 government and the governments of the other devolved 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:06.569 administrations in the United Kingdom. So we're 00:05:06.569 --> 00:05:09.009 talking a lot about, obviously, the UK, because, 00:05:09.069 --> 00:05:11.250 Salix, we do support government on reaching those 00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:13.569 net zero targets and those, as you say, very 00:05:13.569 --> 00:05:18.050 ambitious challenges. The UK, we account for 00:05:18.050 --> 00:05:21.089 about, I think, is it 1 % of emissions? But we 00:05:21.089 --> 00:05:24.029 are also looking at countries like China, America, 00:05:24.269 --> 00:05:27.389 India, huge amounts of carbon emissions. And 00:05:27.389 --> 00:05:30.610 your work, going back to your work as a diplomat, 00:05:30.629 --> 00:05:33.310 which is largely about... relationship building 00:05:33.310 --> 00:05:39.350 and how you kind of join it all up and bring 00:05:39.350 --> 00:05:43.449 people together. How do you think at Salix we're 00:05:43.449 --> 00:05:47.189 able to do that across the UK and across the 00:05:47.189 --> 00:05:50.290 public sector and housing? How can you join these 00:05:50.290 --> 00:05:53.889 key messages up? Well, I think leadership is 00:05:53.889 --> 00:05:56.829 really important when we're facing big challenges, 00:05:57.009 --> 00:06:00.540 big global challenges. And you can't change the 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:03.860 world from kind of a small place, but you can 00:06:03.860 --> 00:06:06.579 do something within your scope and within your 00:06:06.579 --> 00:06:09.420 remit. And if a lot of people do that, then collectively 00:06:09.420 --> 00:06:11.959 you can have a massive impact. So I think the 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:16.199 role that Salix can play is joining together 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.920 with local authorities, with housing associations, 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:24.120 with universities, with hospitals, with government 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:26.779 funding bodies, with technical experts from the 00:06:26.779 --> 00:06:30.839 private sector, with consultants. to try and 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:33.420 make some collective difference to what the UK 00:06:33.420 --> 00:06:36.120 can do. And I think it's really important to 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.259 focus on what we can do more than worrying sometimes 00:06:39.259 --> 00:06:41.980 about what we can't. Because if you demonstrate 00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:44.519 that things can be better, then I think you can 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.000 create a collective will to try and move things 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:49.500 forward. Now, I know since you've been at Salix, 00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:51.800 you've been able to go out actually and see some 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:53.860 of the work that we do for real. You've been 00:06:53.860 --> 00:06:55.980 going on to site visits, looking at projects, 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:58.819 whether it's hospitals, schools. Do you get that 00:06:58.819 --> 00:07:01.199 feeling that everybody's working on that kind 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:03.699 of whole of society approach when you go on sites? 00:07:03.939 --> 00:07:05.759 Do you get the feeling that everybody's working 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.319 together and how that message is being? conveyed? 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.480 So one is I love going out to see the impact 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:15.279 of the work we do live real time with real people 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.060 in houses where I've seen some houses with amazing 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:22.279 conversion actually from simple old houses to 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.100 beautiful moderate installations warm and comfortable 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:27.920 or looking at what we've done in schools where 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:30.800 drafty old schools where the kids would not want 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.519 to be inside and study are having a fantastic 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.779 time and the teachers are thrilled because they 00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:38.160 become a lot easier to teach. So it's really 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.920 impactful to see things firsthand. I don't think 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.540 that everyone is signed up to the agenda. I think 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:47.319 this is very different, I think, to working in 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.079 something like healthcare, where people have 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:52.319 been aware of illness and disease for a very 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:55.000 long time. The whole decarbonisation journey 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:59.300 is a lot younger. But what I've seen real time 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:03.259 is that I think we can develop passionate advocates 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:07.110 for change. By meeting the people who've gone 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:09.189 through these kind of journeys, where they've 00:08:09.189 --> 00:08:11.769 transformed their house or their building or 00:08:11.769 --> 00:08:14.449 the university they work in or the hospital they 00:08:14.449 --> 00:08:17.810 work in, and they see the benefits of decarbonisation 00:08:17.810 --> 00:08:21.089 at a personal level, and also hear about the 00:08:21.089 --> 00:08:23.329 benefits and the importance of decarbonisation 00:08:23.329 --> 00:08:26.350 at a global level. And I think we've taken people 00:08:26.350 --> 00:08:29.269 who perhaps didn't have any interest in it before. 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:31.899 to be the champions that we will need in the 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:34.480 future. I think working with schools is really 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:38.220 fantastic actually because... You listen, parents 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:41.519 listen to children. And actually, if you listen 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.379 to some of the interviews I've seen with young 00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:45.679 children talking about what they want for their 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:49.340 future and what their children will need, I think 00:08:49.340 --> 00:08:51.899 they can provide a very compelling push to the 00:08:51.899 --> 00:08:54.139 kind of older generations who have funding and 00:08:54.139 --> 00:08:56.519 authority to try and make the world a better 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.919 place through decarbonisation. So do you think 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.899 the projects that we work on and, for example, 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:07.570 in schools and housing, Better insulation in 00:09:07.570 --> 00:09:10.250 there. We're installing heat pumps, looking at 00:09:10.250 --> 00:09:12.309 solar PV, all of those measures that are funded 00:09:12.309 --> 00:09:14.269 by government and through the schemes that we 00:09:14.269 --> 00:09:18.669 deliver. Do you think that that is enough or 00:09:18.669 --> 00:09:22.429 do you think that really is impacting the local 00:09:22.429 --> 00:09:24.789 community as well? As you say, schoolchildren 00:09:24.789 --> 00:09:27.529 in the schools that you visited are getting those 00:09:27.529 --> 00:09:30.370 heat pumps. They're now enjoying warmer classrooms. 00:09:30.529 --> 00:09:32.009 They don't have to wear their coats on during 00:09:32.009 --> 00:09:36.169 lessons. But do you think that they, how important 00:09:36.169 --> 00:09:37.850 is it that they then go out into the community 00:09:37.850 --> 00:09:40.909 and talk to their parents about switching, whether 00:09:40.909 --> 00:09:42.850 it's switching the lights off, whether it's energy 00:09:42.850 --> 00:09:45.730 conservation, whether it's recycling, sustainability? 00:09:46.370 --> 00:09:51.470 Are we just the start of that message then through 00:09:51.470 --> 00:09:54.309 our work? I mean, I think we're at the beginning 00:09:54.309 --> 00:09:57.299 of a journey which is going to be bumpy. is going 00:09:57.299 --> 00:10:00.059 to be fast and it's going to be really, really 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:03.460 important. I think the more we can get advocates 00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:06.539 to come and join us, then the better and the 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:10.720 more impactful it will be. We need to get the 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.620 kind of young people engaged because I think 00:10:12.620 --> 00:10:15.539 it helps engage others. But we also need to look 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:18.019 at all of the stakeholders involved and participate 00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:21.779 in increasing understanding, increasing trust 00:10:21.779 --> 00:10:27.379 by looking at the impact of things that have 00:10:27.379 --> 00:10:30.259 been done. and giving confidence in the things 00:10:30.259 --> 00:10:33.500 that are possible because i think there is it's 00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:35.539 an area where there may be preconceptions in 00:10:35.539 --> 00:10:37.899 some area that it's too difficult or too hard 00:10:37.899 --> 00:10:41.350 or too expensive So even when people start to 00:10:41.350 --> 00:10:44.629 realise the importance and the need of decarbonisation, 00:10:44.750 --> 00:10:47.769 they maybe don't always know where to go or what 00:10:47.769 --> 00:10:50.610 to do. And I think we can really help with that 00:10:50.610 --> 00:10:53.289 role. So there's some advocacy we can do, some 00:10:53.289 --> 00:10:56.070 technical expertise we can bring. We can certainly 00:10:56.070 --> 00:10:58.309 do experience sharing. You know, I think we've 00:10:58.309 --> 00:11:01.690 got a team of about 230 people, something like 00:11:01.690 --> 00:11:04.669 70 people who have studied experts in geography. 00:11:04.850 --> 00:11:07.830 We've got technical experts who understand aerosource 00:11:07.830 --> 00:11:10.750 heat pumps. we will be looking at what is the 00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:12.710 innovation and the technology of the future, 00:11:12.870 --> 00:11:15.990 because the pathway that we have to go on... 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:19.539 is going to be long. It will be 5, 10, 15, 20 00:11:19.539 --> 00:11:22.440 years with different targets along the way. But 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:25.480 during those times, technology will change. And 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.039 as an organisation, we're making sure that we're 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:30.299 at the cutting edge of understanding what those 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:33.299 changes are, so we can advise people well for 00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:35.200 how they can address the kind of issues that 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:38.659 they have. And that's a huge area of excitement, 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:40.480 isn't it, about where the technology is going 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.059 to go. And obviously, we've got AI there. And 00:11:43.059 --> 00:11:44.860 every day, our teams, as you say, are looking 00:11:44.860 --> 00:11:49.879 at projects trying to break new ground and be 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:53.419 innovative in whether it's cutting carbon emissions, 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:56.500 whether they're looking at geothermal heat pumps, 00:11:56.740 --> 00:11:58.879 ground source heat pumps. It's quite incredible, 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.960 the work that is going on at the moment, as you 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.620 say. So we've got a lot of targets, climate change 00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:09.080 targets. Climate change is on our news every 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.879 day. The UK plans net zero by 2050. 80 % of local 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.240 authorities in the UK have pledged net zero before 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.720 2050. And Scotland's got tough targets, as has 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.779 Wales. We're delivering our projects at great 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:29.220 speed, I think, and under a huge amount of... 00:12:29.990 --> 00:12:32.549 kind of pressure ready. You really feel it in 00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:35.110 the public sector as schemes try and deliver 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:39.029 to huge hospital projects and schools. Targets. 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.029 Do the targets, Kevin, go far enough? Because 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:46.509 we are seeing climate change on our news every 00:12:46.509 --> 00:12:49.710 day. People are being left homeless because of 00:12:49.710 --> 00:12:52.169 climate change and have been for a while. Are 00:12:52.169 --> 00:12:55.269 the targets enough? So I think targets are really 00:12:55.269 --> 00:12:59.480 important. They will move as we go through the 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.580 journey. I think to start with, we have to set 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:05.720 a kind of big, bold leap, a big goal that we're 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.000 going to fix this. And collectively, I think 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:11.860 we can fix this between government. private sector 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:15.200 and public will. If we get those three elements 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.860 right, I think there is a pathway forward. You 00:13:17.860 --> 00:13:20.279 add in a nice mix of science, then I think there 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.500 is a way to do this. In terms of setting targets, 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:26.259 you have to set targets, you also have to meet 00:13:26.259 --> 00:13:29.200 targets. So setting them and then not being able 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:32.539 to describe a pathway that will get there is 00:13:32.539 --> 00:13:34.679 not really the way forward. We have to decide 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:38.840 what a realistic... difficult but achievable 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:42.460 target is in the near term map a pathway to get 00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:45.259 there identify the types of policies that are 00:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.059 needed and the type of delivery mechanisms that 00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:51.360 are necessary to do that and then set the next 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.539 milestone and the next milestone behind that 00:13:53.539 --> 00:13:56.840 so we need a big goal and a commitment to fix 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:59.500 it but then some good milestones along the way 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:03.379 But milestones without delivery plans are wishes, 00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:06.039 not pathways. And I think we need to make sure 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.740 we do that. And how do you bring people? How 00:14:09.740 --> 00:14:11.840 do you think you bring people with you? Kevin, 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:14.500 you're working, as I say, you've joined Salix 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:16.860 not so long ago. You've been here for a few months. 00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:20.879 How are you going to take the team at Salix with 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.860 you on targets? We face, my colleagues are on 00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:27.980 tight targets every day. So we have a fantastic 00:14:27.980 --> 00:14:32.379 team. The nicest thing walking into Salix as 00:14:32.379 --> 00:14:34.419 an organisation, whether our Manchester office 00:14:34.419 --> 00:14:37.539 or our London office or meeting teams that we 00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:40.120 have around the country, is we have a team of 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.220 passionate believers that this is important. 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.899 So I think we are a mission -driven company and 00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:48.899 the people who work here do so because they believe 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.580 that the goals we're trying to achieve are right 00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:54.200 for them and their families and the other people 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.539 around the world. So I don't think we have a 00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.799 challenge to try and motivate the team to do 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.789 it. I think the challenge we have is laying out 00:15:01.789 --> 00:15:05.029 the pathway of what is the most effective way 00:15:05.029 --> 00:15:07.809 for Salix and the other organisations we work 00:15:07.809 --> 00:15:11.649 with, whether it's consultancies or DESNES, the 00:15:11.649 --> 00:15:14.110 department within the government, or the universities. 00:15:14.350 --> 00:15:17.590 I think it's the how to do it that's going to 00:15:17.590 --> 00:15:19.690 be important. And I think we have to recognise 00:15:19.690 --> 00:15:23.570 that there will be setbacks sometimes along the 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:28.169 way. But achieving 90 % of a really ambitious 00:15:28.169 --> 00:15:31.250 goal is much better, I think, than trying to 00:15:31.250 --> 00:15:34.230 achieve 150 % of something which is a limited 00:15:34.230 --> 00:15:36.950 goal and too easy. And I think we've got quite 00:15:36.950 --> 00:15:40.029 a competitive team who will be quite up for tackling 00:15:40.029 --> 00:15:42.789 some difficult things together. And for yourself, 00:15:43.070 --> 00:15:45.750 you've got that diplomatic experience and you've 00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:47.990 got business experience working, as you say, 00:15:48.049 --> 00:15:52.309 in the healthcare sector. How do you think your 00:15:52.309 --> 00:15:56.019 skills that you've acquired over your years of 00:15:56.019 --> 00:15:59.279 experience have put you in a good position to 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.100 take on this very ambitious challenge now working 00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:05.740 with governments across the UK. So, you know, 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:10.960 I believe in the balance of public sector and 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.980 private sector as being really critical. And 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.759 I think it's quite rare to have people who have 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.080 seen both sides and know how both sides function. 00:16:18.340 --> 00:16:20.779 But I really believe that is a core partnership 00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:24.600 that needs to work to make decarbonisation happen. 00:16:24.899 --> 00:16:28.059 And I'm very happy to be engaged with that. And 00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:30.179 then I really do believe that science is a large 00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:33.899 part of the answer. So having some type of technology 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:37.059 or a science -driven agenda is important, and 00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:39.840 important in two ways. One is so that we really 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:41.740 look at what are the technologies of the future 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:44.600 and what impact they can have, but also to look 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.139 at the data and the evidence that can be collected 00:16:47.139 --> 00:16:49.779 from the work that's being done. Now, within 00:16:49.779 --> 00:16:52.740 Salix, we've done many, many houses, many universities, 00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:56.789 many schools. and as have the partners we've 00:16:56.789 --> 00:16:59.190 worked with, we still probably have some work 00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:01.809 to do to be able to drill down, analyze, and 00:17:01.809 --> 00:17:04.390 try and get the most of the learnings from that 00:17:04.390 --> 00:17:07.589 so that we can give the best pathways forward 00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:10.029 to people who come to us for advice in the future. 00:17:10.430 --> 00:17:13.289 But I think this blend of science, public and 00:17:13.289 --> 00:17:16.029 private, and then evidence -based is actually 00:17:16.029 --> 00:17:18.049 a really useful way forward, and that's what 00:17:18.049 --> 00:17:20.009 I'm looking forward to lead here. Fantastic. 00:17:20.009 --> 00:17:22.809 Thank you very much. Are we ambitious enough? 00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:27.329 We talk about sustainability. Is aiming for sustainability 00:17:27.329 --> 00:17:33.049 enough? As a population, are we ambitious enough? 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:38.410 I think the goals of everyone is to have, I think 00:17:38.410 --> 00:17:40.450 a wise person told me once that it's got a health, 00:17:40.509 --> 00:17:42.549 wealth and happiness. These are the three things 00:17:42.549 --> 00:17:44.529 that you need in your life. And it's when the 00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:47.710 first part goes that the other two become much 00:17:47.710 --> 00:17:51.400 less important. We have to be ambitious for sustainability, 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:53.559 that you have to plan for multiple generations 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:57.539 of the future. And that's why I like this decarbonisation 00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:00.180 agenda. Healthcare, we tend to focus on individuals 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:02.880 who are alive today. How can we make their lives 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.099 better? Decarbonisation is about making lives 00:18:06.099 --> 00:18:09.079 better for this generation, the next generation, 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:11.759 the generation after. So I think the ambition 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.779 has to be there's a thousand generations behind 00:18:14.779 --> 00:18:17.119 us who are going to live wonderful lives on this 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.329 planet. I do think the ambition has to be a really 00:18:20.329 --> 00:18:24.049 positive one, because I think often the decarbonisation 00:18:24.049 --> 00:18:27.849 agenda sinks into things that can go wrong and 00:18:27.849 --> 00:18:31.250 tales of woe and disaster. But I do think we 00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:33.589 need to have an ambition of the kind of paradise 00:18:33.589 --> 00:18:36.450 of the future. It has to be a beautiful world 00:18:36.450 --> 00:18:39.710 for the hundredth generation behind us to live 00:18:39.710 --> 00:18:43.809 in. And to be able to do that, you need the... 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:47.259 the the environment to be right but we also need 00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:49.740 to be able to fund it and create the kind of 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:51.900 employment and the jobs and build the economy 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.940 that can help us get the pathway very quickly 00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:57.859 to um to this kind of wonderful future for the 00:18:57.859 --> 00:19:00.519 generations behind us so you see this space very 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.619 much as an area of opportunity don't you for 00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:05.740 the economy for jobs for skills you see it very 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:08.160 much as a as a area of growth you talk about 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:10.119 because you've talked about that woe and disaster 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.400 for most people sitting at home if they're watching 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.059 the news They'll see that word disaster on their 00:19:16.059 --> 00:19:18.500 screens, but you're seeing it as opportunity. 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:23.180 So I think often the news is driven by events 00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:26.980 and often catastrophic events attract attention. 00:19:28.049 --> 00:19:30.670 And kind of wonderful, peaceful things are less 00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:33.430 interesting perhaps. But if we look at the actual 00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:37.509 work and the outcomes, 99 % of things that will 00:19:37.509 --> 00:19:40.109 need to be done will be positive changes for 00:19:40.109 --> 00:19:43.410 the future. And there'll be 1 % or 5 % of challenges 00:19:43.410 --> 00:19:46.390 that need to be dealt with. Along the pathway 00:19:46.390 --> 00:19:51.250 to a decarbonized future, there will be a chance 00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:54.140 to create economic benefits. There will be a 00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:56.740 chance to create employment. There will be new 00:19:56.740 --> 00:20:01.119 roles and types of technologies and kind of expertise 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.299 that people can acquire along the way. There'll 00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:05.660 be new ways of living. If you look at some of 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:07.420 the people who are the planners for the future, 00:20:07.460 --> 00:20:09.460 what does a future city look like? What would 00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:12.400 it look like if you designed today from the ground 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.619 up? It would be very different. And those kind 00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:17.099 of things really can create opportunities for 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:19.859 companies and for people, both for employment 00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:22.799 as well as for better lives. And making it more 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.640 affordable, of course, for people, making it 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.220 not just desirable, but it's something that people 00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:30.690 can afford to do. Which is going to be critical. 00:20:30.809 --> 00:20:34.529 And if you create economic opportunity for communities, 00:20:34.710 --> 00:20:36.910 then there should also be a chance for kind of 00:20:36.910 --> 00:20:40.410 wealth for the individuals within that. And it's 00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:44.029 fantastic to hear that optimism from you, Kevin, 00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:46.809 which I would hope from our chief executive and 00:20:46.809 --> 00:20:49.930 kind of that way forward. But more personally, 00:20:50.589 --> 00:20:53.490 the climate future for your kids, for your grandchildren, 00:20:53.630 --> 00:20:56.369 you've talked about generations to come. Are 00:20:56.369 --> 00:21:00.650 you an optimist? Or pessimist? Listen, I'm an 00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:03.970 optimist because what I've seen in the last few 00:21:03.970 --> 00:21:06.049 months, particularly looking at this subject 00:21:06.049 --> 00:21:09.390 more closely, is the governments are committed. 00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:11.789 OK, and they have challenges. If you look at 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:14.789 COP 29, there is disagreement because it's a 00:21:14.789 --> 00:21:17.970 massive task for global leadership to be able 00:21:17.970 --> 00:21:20.309 to try and solve this. But they're sitting at 00:21:20.309 --> 00:21:22.410 a table. There'll be COP 30. There'll be COP 00:21:22.410 --> 00:21:27.319 31. There'll be COP 40. There'll be COP 50. There 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:31.359 is a global will to do something. And I believe 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.779 in the power of kind of humanity to try and make 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:36.400 this work out. So, yes, I'm an optimist that 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.400 we will fix it. We have to. And I think people 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.859 believe that. We have to. We have no choice. 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.059 And I know that we were recently in a school 00:21:43.059 --> 00:21:45.440 together and we visited a school and the children 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.599 really look at it as clearly as that. There is 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:50.160 no choice. We have to go forward and we have 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.339 to fix it. Fantastic. Thank you very much, Kevin, 00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:56.559 for your time today. You've provided such an 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.500 incredible insight into this whole agenda and 00:21:59.500 --> 00:22:01.559 we're very privileged to have you as one of our 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:05.380 guests. In fact, our first guest of our decarbonisation 00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:08.119 dialogue. Thank you, Hannah. There can be no 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.259 doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:12.660 of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:15.279 gas emissions to slow global warming. Today, 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:17.779 we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles 00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:20.059 to current and future impacts of climate change. 00:22:20.670 --> 00:22:23.309 Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver 00:22:23.309 --> 00:22:25.670 on our climate commitments. And today, we must 00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:28.890 work for tomorrow's world. So please do keep 00:22:28.890 --> 00:22:31.349 in touch with us. And you can email with your 00:22:31.349 --> 00:22:34.750 ideas and suggestions regarding our podcast series 00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:38.609 to podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. And don't 00:22:38.609 --> 00:22:40.730 forget to subscribe to our podcast channels. 00:22:40.990 --> 00:22:43.250 Thank you. And thank you to Kevin. You've been 00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:46.029 listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a 00:22:46.029 --> 00:22:49.390 podcast from Salix. For more information about 00:22:49.390 --> 00:22:52.750 our work and to find more content, please visit 00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:56.890 salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.