You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue,
a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation
Dialogue, delivering on climate change, our collective
challenge. I am Hannah Walker, and I believe
that the best way to communicate a message is
by being passionate about what you are talking
about. Through that passion, I believe you take
people with you and create action using your
influence to make change and make a difference.
Our task today is to get all of us to net zero.
Welcome to my guest today, and that's our very
own Salix Chief Executive, Kevin Holland. Thank
you very much for your time today. Kevin, can
we start by talking a little bit about your career?
You've gone from being a diplomat, having worked
across the world, to working on post-Brexit
trading arrangements for Invest Northern Ireland,
to now tackling climate change. How did you get
here, Kevin? Thank you, Hannah. Happy to talk
about that. Well, listen, the first thing is
I'm very happy with the place I'm at. I've got
a fantastic role in a kind of fantastic company
and we have a real chance to make a difference.
How I've got here is really from doing three
different things. Fundamentally, I'm a scientist.
I'm a chemist by background. I like the science
of chemistry. I like the creativity of chemistry.
And a lot of my career has been based on data
and using evidence to make decisions or to make
recommendations. I had real pleasure bringing
new products to market when I started in chemistry
and really trying to make tangible things out
of evidence and out of science. But then I've
also had 10 years' experience running businesses.
So if you create new innovations, then it's also
very important that people are able to have access
to them and to use them. So I spent a lot of
time trying to run global businesses, particularly
around healthcare, which is a very mission-driven
business to be in, trying to improve the lives
of people and patients around the world, and
trying to help businesses improve the way that
patients can access new drugs, new treatments.
that people can lead better lives. But then after
spending a lot of time in business, I realised
that one is your primary funder is often the
government. And if you really want to be successful,
if you really want patients to have best access,
you need to understand how governments think.
So I thought the only way to really understand
that is to go and join them. So I crossed over
the other side from private sector to public
and have spent a number of years in roles for
the UK government, partly in China, looking at
how to improve access to health care. and then
partly in Northern Ireland looking at how can
we improve the economy, provide people with jobs
and kind of good places to work within the economy
there. I recently joined Salix. I joined in last
year in 2024 and I've been really impressed so
far with the company and what it can do and the
mission we have to help us save the planet. Thank
you, because you talk a lot there about creativity,
innovation and mission. You talked about health
care and mission to get people the drugs that
they need at the right time in the right place.
So that vision and that mission. Tell me about
your vision for Salix. So Salix has got a fantastic
history and I think has got a very powerful future
ahead. The history has been around for over 20
years. During that time, it has made a significant
difference to the levels of carbon dioxide across
the UK and has improved buildings and homes for
a number of people. It's done that by providing
funding, actually, so grant funding and loan
funding to help buildings change, to become more
carbon neutral, to help reduce the usage of gas,
to reduce the usage of oil, but also to run more
cost effectively and to provide a better living
and working environment. Going forward, the expertise
and the experience that Salix has built will
make a big difference to the UK as it tries to
meet these almost impossible goals that we face
going forward. And Salix, the vision I have for
it, will be a major contributor to the future
improvements of the buildings across the UK.
We know there's a really big challenge to be
done. Salix has built a fantastic team with expertise.
technical experience and an ability to fund the
right people, assess projects and help people
make the right kind of decisions in their way
forward towards the pathway to net zero. And
I think there are many ways that the UK government
will need to tackle climate change. Salix will
be a part of it as part of Team UK for the UK
government and the governments of the other devolved
administrations in the United Kingdom. So we're
talking a lot about, obviously, the UK, because,
Salix, we do support government on reaching those
net zero targets and those, as you say, very
ambitious challenges. The UK, we account for
about, I think, is it 1 % of emissions? But we
are also looking at countries like China, America,
India, huge amounts of carbon emissions. And
your work, going back to your work as a diplomat,
which is largely about... relationship building
and how you kind of join it all up and bring
people together. How do you think at Salix we're
able to do that across the UK and across the
public sector and housing? How can you join these
key messages up? Well, I think leadership is
really important when we're facing big challenges,
big global challenges. And you can't change the
world from kind of a small place, but you can
do something within your scope and within your
remit. And if a lot of people do that, then collectively
you can have a massive impact. So I think the
role that Salix can play is joining together
with local authorities, with housing associations,
with universities, with hospitals, with government
funding bodies, with technical experts from the
private sector, with consultants. to try and
make some collective difference to what the UK
can do. And I think it's really important to
focus on what we can do more than worrying sometimes
about what we can't. Because if you demonstrate
that things can be better, then I think you can
create a collective will to try and move things
forward. Now, I know since you've been at Salix,
you've been able to go out actually and see some
of the work that we do for real. You've been
going on to site visits, looking at projects,
whether it's hospitals, schools. Do you get that
feeling that everybody's working on that kind
of whole of society approach when you go on sites?
Do you get the feeling that everybody's working
together and how that message is being? conveyed?
So one is I love going out to see the impact
of the work we do live real time with real people
in houses where I've seen some houses with amazing
conversion actually from simple old houses to
beautiful moderate installations warm and comfortable
or looking at what we've done in schools where
drafty old schools where the kids would not want
to be inside and study are having a fantastic
time and the teachers are thrilled because they
become a lot easier to teach. So it's really
impactful to see things firsthand. I don't think
that everyone is signed up to the agenda. I think
this is very different, I think, to working in
something like healthcare, where people have
been aware of illness and disease for a very
long time. The whole decarbonisation journey
is a lot younger. But what I've seen real time
is that I think we can develop passionate advocates
for change. By meeting the people who've gone
through these kind of journeys, where they've
transformed their house or their building or
the university they work in or the hospital they
work in, and they see the benefits of decarbonisation
at a personal level, and also hear about the
benefits and the importance of decarbonisation
at a global level. And I think we've taken people
who perhaps didn't have any interest in it before.
to be the champions that we will need in the
future. I think working with schools is really
fantastic actually because... You listen, parents
listen to children. And actually, if you listen
to some of the interviews I've seen with young
children talking about what they want for their
future and what their children will need, I think
they can provide a very compelling push to the
kind of older generations who have funding and
authority to try and make the world a better
place through decarbonisation. So do you think
the projects that we work on and, for example,
in schools and housing, Better insulation in
there. We're installing heat pumps, looking at
solar PV, all of those measures that are funded
by government and through the schemes that we
deliver. Do you think that that is enough or
do you think that really is impacting the local
community as well? As you say, schoolchildren
in the schools that you visited are getting those
heat pumps. They're now enjoying warmer classrooms.
They don't have to wear their coats on during
lessons. But do you think that they, how important
is it that they then go out into the community
and talk to their parents about switching, whether
it's switching the lights off, whether it's energy
conservation, whether it's recycling, sustainability?
Are we just the start of that message then through
our work? I mean, I think we're at the beginning
of a journey which is going to be bumpy. is going
to be fast and it's going to be really, really
important. I think the more we can get advocates
to come and join us, then the better and the
more impactful it will be. We need to get the
kind of young people engaged because I think
it helps engage others. But we also need to look
at all of the stakeholders involved and participate
in increasing understanding, increasing trust
by looking at the impact of things that have
been done. and giving confidence in the things
that are possible because i think there is it's
an area where there may be preconceptions in
some area that it's too difficult or too hard
or too expensive So even when people start to
realise the importance and the need of decarbonisation,
they maybe don't always know where to go or what
to do. And I think we can really help with that
role. So there's some advocacy we can do, some
technical expertise we can bring. We can certainly
do experience sharing. You know, I think we've
got a team of about 230 people, something like
70 people who have studied experts in geography.
We've got technical experts who understand aerosource
heat pumps. we will be looking at what is the
innovation and the technology of the future,
because the pathway that we have to go on...
is going to be long. It will be 5, 10, 15, 20
years with different targets along the way. But
during those times, technology will change. And
as an organisation, we're making sure that we're
at the cutting edge of understanding what those
changes are, so we can advise people well for
how they can address the kind of issues that
they have. And that's a huge area of excitement,
isn't it, about where the technology is going
to go. And obviously, we've got AI there. And
every day, our teams, as you say, are looking
at projects trying to break new ground and be
innovative in whether it's cutting carbon emissions,
whether they're looking at geothermal heat pumps,
ground source heat pumps. It's quite incredible,
the work that is going on at the moment, as you
say. So we've got a lot of targets, climate change
targets. Climate change is on our news every
day. The UK plans net zero by 2050. 80 % of local
authorities in the UK have pledged net zero before
2050. And Scotland's got tough targets, as has
Wales. We're delivering our projects at great
speed, I think, and under a huge amount of...
kind of pressure ready. You really feel it in
the public sector as schemes try and deliver
to huge hospital projects and schools. Targets.
Do the targets, Kevin, go far enough? Because
we are seeing climate change on our news every
day. People are being left homeless because of
climate change and have been for a while. Are
the targets enough? So I think targets are really
important. They will move as we go through the
journey. I think to start with, we have to set
a kind of big, bold leap, a big goal that we're
going to fix this. And collectively, I think
we can fix this between government. private sector
and public will. If we get those three elements
right, I think there is a pathway forward. You
add in a nice mix of science, then I think there
is a way to do this. In terms of setting targets,
you have to set targets, you also have to meet
targets. So setting them and then not being able
to describe a pathway that will get there is
not really the way forward. We have to decide
what a realistic... difficult but achievable
target is in the near term map a pathway to get
there identify the types of policies that are
needed and the type of delivery mechanisms that
are necessary to do that and then set the next
milestone and the next milestone behind that
so we need a big goal and a commitment to fix
it but then some good milestones along the way
But milestones without delivery plans are wishes,
not pathways. And I think we need to make sure
we do that. And how do you bring people? How
do you think you bring people with you? Kevin,
you're working, as I say, you've joined Salix
not so long ago. You've been here for a few months.
How are you going to take the team at Salix with
you on targets? We face, my colleagues are on
tight targets every day. So we have a fantastic
team. The nicest thing walking into Salix as
an organisation, whether our Manchester office
or our London office or meeting teams that we
have around the country, is we have a team of
passionate believers that this is important.
So I think we are a mission -driven company and
the people who work here do so because they believe
that the goals we're trying to achieve are right
for them and their families and the other people
around the world. So I don't think we have a
challenge to try and motivate the team to do
it. I think the challenge we have is laying out
the pathway of what is the most effective way
for Salix and the other organisations we work
with, whether it's consultancies or DESNES, the
department within the government, or the universities.
I think it's the how to do it that's going to
be important. And I think we have to recognise
that there will be setbacks sometimes along the
way. But achieving 90 % of a really ambitious
goal is much better, I think, than trying to
achieve 150 % of something which is a limited
goal and too easy. And I think we've got quite
a competitive team who will be quite up for tackling
some difficult things together. And for yourself,
you've got that diplomatic experience and you've
got business experience working, as you say,
in the healthcare sector. How do you think your
skills that you've acquired over your years of
experience have put you in a good position to
take on this very ambitious challenge now working
with governments across the UK. So, you know,
I believe in the balance of public sector and
private sector as being really critical. And
I think it's quite rare to have people who have
seen both sides and know how both sides function.
But I really believe that is a core partnership
that needs to work to make decarbonisation happen.
And I'm very happy to be engaged with that. And
then I really do believe that science is a large
part of the answer. So having some type of technology
or a science -driven agenda is important, and
important in two ways. One is so that we really
look at what are the technologies of the future
and what impact they can have, but also to look
at the data and the evidence that can be collected
from the work that's being done. Now, within
Salix, we've done many, many houses, many universities,
many schools. and as have the partners we've
worked with, we still probably have some work
to do to be able to drill down, analyze, and
try and get the most of the learnings from that
so that we can give the best pathways forward
to people who come to us for advice in the future.
But I think this blend of science, public and
private, and then evidence -based is actually
a really useful way forward, and that's what
I'm looking forward to lead here. Fantastic.
Thank you very much. Are we ambitious enough?
We talk about sustainability. Is aiming for sustainability
enough? As a population, are we ambitious enough?
I think the goals of everyone is to have, I think
a wise person told me once that it's got a health,
wealth and happiness. These are the three things
that you need in your life. And it's when the
first part goes that the other two become much
less important. We have to be ambitious for sustainability,
that you have to plan for multiple generations
of the future. And that's why I like this decarbonisation
agenda. Healthcare, we tend to focus on individuals
who are alive today. How can we make their lives
better? Decarbonisation is about making lives
better for this generation, the next generation,
the generation after. So I think the ambition
has to be there's a thousand generations behind
us who are going to live wonderful lives on this
planet. I do think the ambition has to be a really
positive one, because I think often the decarbonisation
agenda sinks into things that can go wrong and
tales of woe and disaster. But I do think we
need to have an ambition of the kind of paradise
of the future. It has to be a beautiful world
for the hundredth generation behind us to live
in. And to be able to do that, you need the...
the the environment to be right but we also need
to be able to fund it and create the kind of
employment and the jobs and build the economy
that can help us get the pathway very quickly
to um to this kind of wonderful future for the
generations behind us so you see this space very
much as an area of opportunity don't you for
the economy for jobs for skills you see it very
much as a as a area of growth you talk about
because you've talked about that woe and disaster
for most people sitting at home if they're watching
the news They'll see that word disaster on their
screens, but you're seeing it as opportunity.
So I think often the news is driven by events
and often catastrophic events attract attention.
And kind of wonderful, peaceful things are less
interesting perhaps. But if we look at the actual
work and the outcomes, 99 % of things that will
need to be done will be positive changes for
the future. And there'll be 1 % or 5 % of challenges
that need to be dealt with. Along the pathway
to a decarbonized future, there will be a chance
to create economic benefits. There will be a
chance to create employment. There will be new
roles and types of technologies and kind of expertise
that people can acquire along the way. There'll
be new ways of living. If you look at some of
the people who are the planners for the future,
what does a future city look like? What would
it look like if you designed today from the ground
up? It would be very different. And those kind
of things really can create opportunities for
companies and for people, both for employment
as well as for better lives. And making it more
affordable, of course, for people, making it
not just desirable, but it's something that people
can afford to do. Which is going to be critical.
And if you create economic opportunity for communities,
then there should also be a chance for kind of
wealth for the individuals within that. And it's
fantastic to hear that optimism from you, Kevin,
which I would hope from our chief executive and
kind of that way forward. But more personally,
the climate future for your kids, for your grandchildren,
you've talked about generations to come. Are
you an optimist? Or pessimist? Listen, I'm an
optimist because what I've seen in the last few
months, particularly looking at this subject
more closely, is the governments are committed.
OK, and they have challenges. If you look at
COP 29, there is disagreement because it's a
massive task for global leadership to be able
to try and solve this. But they're sitting at
a table. There'll be COP 30. There'll be COP
31. There'll be COP 40. There'll be COP 50. There
is a global will to do something. And I believe
in the power of kind of humanity to try and make
this work out. So, yes, I'm an optimist that
we will fix it. We have to. And I think people
believe that. We have to. We have no choice.
And I know that we were recently in a school
together and we visited a school and the children
really look at it as clearly as that. There is
no choice. We have to go forward and we have
to fix it. Fantastic. Thank you very much, Kevin,
for your time today. You've provided such an
incredible insight into this whole agenda and
we're very privileged to have you as one of our
guests. In fact, our first guest of our decarbonisation
dialogue. Thank you, Hannah. There can be no
doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge
of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse
gas emissions to slow global warming. Today,
we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles
to current and future impacts of climate change.
Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver
on our climate commitments. And today, we must
work for tomorrow's world. So please do keep
in touch with us. And you can email with your
ideas and suggestions regarding our podcast series
to podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. And don't
forget to subscribe to our podcast channels.
Thank you. And thank you to Kevin. You've been
listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a
podcast from Salix. For more information about
our work and to find more content, please visit
salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.