WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:03.879 Welcome to my podcast, Therese Makes History, 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:08.580 The Dairy Lane Project, Season 2. My primary 00:00:08.580 --> 00:00:14.939 sponsor for Season 2 is Ian Zanstra, a very experienced 00:00:14.939 --> 00:00:19.379 dairyman on the other side of the river from 00:00:19.379 --> 00:00:23.120 Pirie. Season 2 would not be happening without 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.120 Ian's support. I'm very grateful he stepped up. 00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:30.910 Thank you, Ian. We're launching episode 9 today. 00:00:32.030 --> 00:00:35.689 We're going to be in Schofield's Lane. I've got 00:00:35.689 --> 00:00:38.689 a bit of territory to cover in the introduction, 00:00:39.009 --> 00:00:42.649 so bear with me. John Schofield was deported 00:00:42.649 --> 00:00:48.789 from England as a convict in 1821. He was an 00:00:48.789 --> 00:00:52.490 Anglican Englishman, but he used to get orphans 00:00:52.490 --> 00:00:55.909 to steal for him. He himself stole a whole roll 00:00:55.909 --> 00:01:00.079 of silk. He was allotted to a farming family 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:05.099 on arrival, squatters named Harley. Now, eight 00:01:05.099 --> 00:01:07.379 years later, John married the squatter's daughter, 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:13.040 Bridget Harley, in April 1829. Actually, from 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:17.819 there, Schofields, the suburb in northwest Sydney, 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.579 is named after the Schofield family. They are 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:25.140 the founders of that suburb. Now, this information 00:01:25.140 --> 00:01:29.900 has come from... Pam Schofield, who grew up in 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:33.340 Schofield's Lane. Pam has actually written a 00:01:33.340 --> 00:01:36.859 book on the family, and a bit of this information 00:01:36.859 --> 00:01:41.959 comes from Pam. I'm going to log her book as 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.980 part of the archive with the library at Nowra. 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:50.620 Now, together John and Bridget had six sons and 00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:54.599 six daughters, so yes, 12 children. One of his 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:57.980 sons was named Samuel. Now Samuel and another 00:01:57.980 --> 00:02:02.819 brother went with John to the gold rush in California. 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:08.479 Apparently they made a fortune, but the ship 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:11.340 on the return ran aground at Law Hill Island 00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:14.860 and they lost all their gold. John must have 00:02:14.860 --> 00:02:17.500 done all right on his return to have the suburb 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:22.719 named after the family. Now Samuel James... Samuel 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.599 James... established some market gardens around 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:32.680 Rockdale and they went into butchering. Samuel 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:37.259 James was born in 1831. He married Grace Redilak 00:02:37.259 --> 00:02:41.680 who was born in 1838. Now they're the parents 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:44.680 of Albert. Now Albert was the butcher in Bury. 00:02:45.139 --> 00:02:49.729 Albert was born in 1863. Albert James Schofield, 00:02:49.770 --> 00:02:52.590 who married Elizabeth Jane Dowling, who was born 00:02:52.590 --> 00:02:56.189 in 1867. Part of the purchase of the butcher 00:02:56.189 --> 00:02:59.969 shop in Bury was also slaughter yards located 00:02:59.969 --> 00:03:04.469 in the land now known as Schofield's Lane, 188 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.379 acres. The slaughter yards came with the butcher 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:10.919 shop. Now Elizabeth's father was Robert George 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:14.240 Dowling. Just a bit of information here. He was 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.180 a stonemason and a builder who was part of the 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:20.000 building team for the University of Sydney and 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.759 David Jones to name a few key sites. Albert and 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:29.060 his wife had six children. Philip, Ken, Bill, 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:34.580 Doris, Edna and Grace. Their eldest son Philip 00:03:35.129 --> 00:03:38.090 Dairy farmed in Schofield's Lane. He had 20 to 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:41.849 30 cows. His daughter, Pam, remembers standing 00:03:41.849 --> 00:03:44.930 on the slide to go to the milk truck with the 00:03:44.930 --> 00:03:49.610 cans. They bred jerseys for butter and cheese 00:03:49.610 --> 00:03:52.689 and their milk went to the berry co -op. Across 00:03:52.689 --> 00:03:56.449 the road, George Williams farmed. Now, Phil had 00:03:56.449 --> 00:04:01.370 three children, Pam and Bill, and then Colin 00:04:01.370 --> 00:04:07.639 after World War II. was born in 1909 and he married 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:11.759 Kathleen Annie Bennett Caton. She was born in 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:16.000 1914. Philip returned from army training in Townsville 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.920 but he never went to World War II and then he 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:22.019 worked for the railways up until his death in 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:26.720 1947 where he died of appendicitis. Pam was 10, 00:04:27.019 --> 00:04:30.540 Bill was 8 and Colin was 2. So Kathleen was a 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:33.279 widow with a young family. Philip's siblings 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:35.980 sold the property fairly much under Kathleen. 00:04:36.379 --> 00:04:39.360 Philip's siblings sold the property for £6 ,000 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:43.000 and it was split six ways. Kathleen received 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:47.480 £1 ,000. She moved to Huskerson with their children 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.860 and ran a haberdashery shop and she raised her 00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:53.829 three children. Pam ended up going to teacher's 00:04:53.829 --> 00:04:56.129 training at Wagga and then she taught at Dapdo 00:04:56.129 --> 00:05:00.389 Primary. She's 88 years of age today. Bill is 00:05:00.389 --> 00:05:04.490 86. Bill dairied for Grace, his auntie, who'd 00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:07.829 married Bob Giles, who dairy farmed on 100 acres 00:05:07.829 --> 00:05:11.110 at Pirie. And he remembers earning six pounds 00:05:11.110 --> 00:05:14.750 a week and bored. Then he share farmed with Lenny 00:05:14.750 --> 00:05:17.970 King at Far Meadow for two years. He was about 00:05:17.970 --> 00:05:21.449 21 years old then. Bill married Iris Jarrett 00:05:21.449 --> 00:05:25.069 from Roseland's Kangaroo Valley, now known as 00:05:25.069 --> 00:05:27.589 Jarrett's Lane. It was their second marriage 00:05:27.589 --> 00:05:32.089 for both and they married in 1953. Iris was one 00:05:32.089 --> 00:05:35.589 of eight children. Her father, John William Jarrett, 00:05:35.629 --> 00:05:39.350 known as Jack, was one of 12 children. Her mum 00:05:39.350 --> 00:05:43.009 was Winifred Jane Good. Now I'm going to do a 00:05:43.009 --> 00:05:46.350 recording with Bill and Iris down the track. 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.360 so they can be archived. I've only just found 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:53.540 them. Now, Bill settled on Maroo Road, Bomaderry, 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:56.620 and established initially a milk run, and then 00:05:56.620 --> 00:06:00.120 he set up W .J. Schofield's Fertiliser Company 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:04.519 at 26 years of age. He ran that company for 44 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.660 years, and he retired at age 70. Now I'm getting 00:06:08.660 --> 00:06:12.050 closer to... what today's recording is going 00:06:12.050 --> 00:06:14.850 to be about. And of course, I'll give you a hint. 00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:18.470 The Department of Agriculture purchased the 186 00:06:18.470 --> 00:06:21.870 acres between Anderson Lane and Hitchcock's Lane 00:06:21.870 --> 00:06:25.389 in the 1950s, what we know as Schofield's Lane 00:06:25.389 --> 00:06:29.490 today, to establish Graham Park. It was established 00:06:29.490 --> 00:06:32.949 here off the highway on the northern side. It 00:06:32.949 --> 00:06:36.529 cost the Department of Agriculture £200 ,000, 00:06:36.529 --> 00:06:40.649 moving it from Wharf Road, Bury. where it was 00:06:40.649 --> 00:06:44.170 established and purchased for £10 ,000, but had 00:06:44.170 --> 00:06:47.110 become too small. Now I'm going to read directly 00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:50.490 from the book written by Bailey that places us 00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:55.430 in this period of time in history. Page 206 in 00:06:55.430 --> 00:06:59.189 the chapter The Milky Way, paragraph 4. Another 00:06:59.189 --> 00:07:02.889 agency for farm progress was the Berry Experiment 00:07:02.889 --> 00:07:06.370 Farm, open near the river beside the road to 00:07:06.370 --> 00:07:11.180 Coolangatta in October. 1899, being the first 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:13.860 of its kind on the coast. It continued under 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:16.980 the Department of Agriculture until in April 00:07:16.980 --> 00:07:21.240 1934 it was taken over by the Child Welfare Department. 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:24.839 It was remodelled with the provision of dining 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.079 room dormitories and other facilities, with cottages 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.180 to house 40 boys to take farm training. It was 00:07:32.180 --> 00:07:35.600 opened by the Minister for Education, Honourable 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.949 D. H. Drummond, On October 11, 1935, it became 00:07:40.949 --> 00:07:44.230 the venue for the third annual field day of the 00:07:44.230 --> 00:07:47.689 South Coast and Tablelands Junior Farmers Clubs. 00:07:47.829 --> 00:07:50.329 Additional buildings were added, together with 00:07:50.329 --> 00:07:54.889 more modern farming facilities, in 1939. The 00:07:54.889 --> 00:07:57.750 area was beautified under the management of P. 00:07:57.889 --> 00:08:00.949 Waller, who retired from the superintendency 00:08:00.949 --> 00:08:07.209 in 1944 after 17 years outstanding success. He 00:08:07.209 --> 00:08:10.290 was followed by F. Sims. The next paragraph. 00:08:10.709 --> 00:08:14.430 An innovation of an unusual kind was the establishment 00:08:14.430 --> 00:08:20.170 on November 17, 1944 of the Berry Better Farming 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:23.990 League to encourage greater milk production sponsored 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:29.350 by A .N. Binks, MLC. It began with N .K. Stewart 00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:32.909 as president, its first activity being a pasture 00:08:32.909 --> 00:08:36.120 improvement competition. It urged the establishment 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.620 of an artificial stock breeding centre from its 00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:43.279 earliest times and included in its aims the promotion 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.399 of social, cultural and economic conditions, 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.740 education, roads, water, electricity and price 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:54.220 stabilisation. It conducted field days, tools 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:57.799 of inspection, lectures and demonstrations by 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:01.620 eminent men. F .A. McIntosh became president 00:09:02.330 --> 00:09:05.629 and L .P. Higgins, Secretary, each serving many 00:09:05.629 --> 00:09:08.370 years. The League flourished and gave a lead 00:09:08.370 --> 00:09:11.629 in New South Wales. A notable leader in the work 00:09:11.629 --> 00:09:14.830 was A .N. Binks. of Linwood, Broughton Village, 00:09:15.049 --> 00:09:18.750 who was presented with a testimonial in 1952 00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:22.309 to mark his work as patron. He also served as 00:09:22.309 --> 00:09:25.149 chairman of the Dairy Farmers Milk Company for 00:09:25.149 --> 00:09:28.669 over 20 years and chairman of the Berry Rural 00:09:28.669 --> 00:09:33.330 Cooperative Society. He died in 1953 after success 00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:36.230 in the milk industry, having lived all his life 00:09:36.230 --> 00:09:38.639 at Broughton Village. One of the outstanding 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:42.139 results of the representations of the Berry Better 00:09:42.139 --> 00:09:44.960 Farming League was that establishment of the 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:48.179 artificial stock breeding station at Berry, serving 00:09:48.179 --> 00:09:50.899 the whole of the Shoalhaven district. First proposed 00:09:50.899 --> 00:09:56.299 in 1947, it cost £10 ,000 to establish, including 00:09:56.299 --> 00:09:59.159 erection of buildings, yards and purchase of 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.820 stock. It was opened by the Minister for Agriculture. 00:10:02.490 --> 00:10:06.269 Honourable E .H. Graham, MLA, on October 17, 00:10:06.690 --> 00:10:11.090 1952. Rapid advances made construction of a larger 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:14.289 station necessary and after construction at a 00:10:14.289 --> 00:10:18.789 cost of £200 ,000, it was opened as Graham Park. 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.440 beside the Princess Highway south of Bury by 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:25.879 the Premier of New South Wales, J .J. Carhill, 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.759 on February 10, 1958. It has resulted in the 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:34.539 breeding of a better class of stock with consequent 00:10:34.539 --> 00:10:37.220 increase in milk production and quality. Now 00:10:37.220 --> 00:10:40.519 I'm going to go a bit more into A .N. Binks and 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.460 Mr. McIntosh, just so you get to know a little 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:47.320 bit more about them. Alfred Noble Binks. was 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:51.259 born in 1873 at Broughton Creek. He died, as 00:10:51.259 --> 00:10:55.240 the book says, in July 1953 at David Berry Hospital. 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.220 His father, Thomas Binks, migrated from England 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:03.320 in 1860. He was born in Norfolk in 1834. Thomas 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.360 married Mary Hetherington at Boat Harbour, Geringong, 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:13.659 in 1865. Mary was born Methodist in 1836, Ireland. 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:17.139 Alfred was one of 11 children. Alfred's influence 00:11:17.139 --> 00:11:20.259 to the local dairying industry cannot be ignored, 00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:22.899 especially in the first part of the 20th century. 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.879 I've looked at a few press articles. I'm referring 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:30.460 to an article in 1933 when they ran a field day 00:11:30.460 --> 00:11:34.919 at the Berry Experimental Farm, ran by P. Waller. 00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:38.940 It was all about pasture improvement and analysing 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:42.740 revenue. Mr Binks spoke there on the importance 00:11:42.740 --> 00:11:45.850 of pasture improvement. as related to the dairy 00:11:45.850 --> 00:11:49.049 industry in the coastal areas. While much was 00:11:49.049 --> 00:11:51.490 done at places like Berry Experimental Farm, 00:11:51.649 --> 00:11:54.830 much still remained for the research worker to 00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:59.070 discover, he says. It was of the greatest importance 00:11:59.070 --> 00:12:02.529 that the work of testing and breeding of strains 00:12:02.529 --> 00:12:06.690 of various grasses be pursued until it was felt 00:12:06.690 --> 00:12:09.289 that the most suitable type was discovered for 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:12.169 each district. Mr Binks praised the work being 00:12:12.169 --> 00:12:15.720 done. by the Plant Foods Advisory Committee in 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:19.500 assisting generally to spread the gospel of pasture 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:23.019 improvement among private farmers. He was a strong 00:12:23.019 --> 00:12:26.179 believer in ploughing up the old matted Paspalum 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:29.820 and sowing down the permanent pasture of rye 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:33.039 and clovers. and top dressing these liberally 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:36.519 with lime and fertilisers to supply the essential 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:40.580 soil elements removed by years of grazing. So 00:12:40.580 --> 00:12:43.419 that was just part of a two -page article on 00:12:43.419 --> 00:12:46.519 the experimental farm that the Shoalhaven News 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.000 and South Coast District Advisor printed. There's 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.559 also an article in 1935 on the Berry Junior Farmers 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:57.259 League, which was started up. The newly formed 00:12:57.259 --> 00:13:00.789 Club of Berry has made an excellent start. with 00:13:00.789 --> 00:13:04.090 a membership of 38. So projects have been taken 00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:07.929 up as follows. Calf rearing, gardening, poultry 00:13:07.929 --> 00:13:11.149 raising, maize and potato growing. In addition, 00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:13.509 all members are interested in cattle judging. 00:13:13.809 --> 00:13:16.450 Who was present at their first meeting? The following 00:13:16.450 --> 00:13:19.330 junior office bearers were elected. President 00:13:19.330 --> 00:13:22.929 Max Bowden, Vice Presidents Ed Foreman and Clyde 00:13:22.929 --> 00:13:26.929 Parrish, Secretary and Treasurer Gwen Chegwiden, 00:13:27.580 --> 00:13:30.139 In addition to several members of the advisory 00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:35.299 committee, Mr A. Rickson of the Jersey Herd Society 00:13:35.299 --> 00:13:39.059 was present and by courtesy of Mr E. Chidwiggan 00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:41.879 gave a demonstration on judging a Jersey cow. 00:13:42.809 --> 00:13:45.330 Members were deeply interested and raised quite 00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:48.769 a number of points at question time. So a tour 00:13:48.769 --> 00:13:51.389 of inspection of projects revealed that the juniors 00:13:51.389 --> 00:13:53.529 had already made a start in their club work. 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:56.850 At Broughton Vale, Max Bowden has his plot of 00:13:56.850 --> 00:13:59.730 potatoes planted. Ken Bowden is laying out a 00:13:59.730 --> 00:14:02.769 neat vegetable garden. Ron Bowden has a splendid 00:14:02.769 --> 00:14:06.860 clutch of white leghorn chicks. and Flory Bowden 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:10.299 is rearing her jersey calf on good lines. Chas 00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:13.879 Abbott, Don Whiffen and Jack Devitt are all laying 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:17.399 out good gardens. Fern Garrity has an attractive 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.259 air shear calf, whilst Betty Julef has a clutch 00:14:21.259 --> 00:14:25.000 of Hawkesbury College Australorps, some type 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.340 of poultry I imagine. At Bury, Gwen Chidwiggan 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:30.620 is skillfully treating her jersey calf during 00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:34.389 a bout of sickness. Gwen also gives promise of 00:14:34.389 --> 00:14:37.710 developing into a capable club secretary. Evelyn 00:14:37.710 --> 00:14:40.070 Biffin has been fortunate in getting a clutch 00:14:40.070 --> 00:14:42.649 of Rhode Island Reds from some of the best breed 00:14:42.649 --> 00:14:46.149 stock in New South Wales. Les Stevenson, Stan 00:14:46.149 --> 00:14:49.610 Tetley and Keith Gall have made a start in their 00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:53.210 gardens. Keith in particular has a good garden. 00:14:53.769 --> 00:14:57.090 Bob Lidbetter is a keen poultry raiser and has 00:14:57.090 --> 00:15:02.649 a clutch of high quality Australorps. Each have 00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:05.389 young calves for good stock. There are some very 00:15:05.389 --> 00:15:07.669 keen members in the far meadow section of the 00:15:07.669 --> 00:15:11.549 club. Nita Keyes, Dom Bishop and Ed Foreman are 00:15:11.549 --> 00:15:15.110 showing good results in calf rearing and have 00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:18.649 attractive calves with much to work. At Jasper's 00:15:18.649 --> 00:15:21.909 Brush, Owen Williams, Mervyn and Clyde Parrish, 00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:25.970 Jolt Harvey and Jack Barron have all made a start 00:15:25.970 --> 00:15:28.750 with their gardens but have been handicapped 00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:34.139 by the dry weather. Millie Harvey and John Alexander 00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:38.539 are rearing calves. Don, having obtained the 00:15:38.539 --> 00:15:41.399 AIS calf of high quality from the famous herd 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.740 of Mr. J. Knapp, his grandfather. The Knapps 00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:47.940 are a bow long. As an instance of the interest 00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:50.899 in club affairs displayed by local men, mention 00:15:50.899 --> 00:15:54.039 is made of a generous gesture by Mr. A. N. Binks, 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.519 who was offered to supply any town boy with a 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:01.220 good AIS calf. together with the sum of half 00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:04.720 a guinea as a contribution towards the cost of 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.639 food so that boys living in Bury will be able 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.460 to take up the calf rearing project if they so 00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:12.960 desire. That just gives you a little insight 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.799 into the junior farmers in 1935. In 1947, Binks 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:21.159 was honoured with an award for Better Farming 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:24.000 League for making the greatest contribution to 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.700 the dairying industry through the Illawarra and 00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:30.070 South Coast. The award was presented to him by 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:32.629 the Honourable E .H. Graham, who was the Minister 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:36.070 for Agriculture. So Graham was observing and 00:16:36.070 --> 00:16:39.049 had quite a lot of engagement down on the South 00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:41.710 Coast whilst he was Minister. There are a number 00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:45.769 of press articles in the 30s quoting Alfred Binx 00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:49.730 and in the 40s, which goes to show you the type 00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:52.570 of person he was with that honour of an award 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:56.250 for the Better Farming League in 1947. Binx's 00:16:56.250 --> 00:16:59.419 work was influential towards what was to come. 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.659 Now we move to Fred McIntosh. Now Fred came from 00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:06.279 Cobbity. He was born there, Frederick Andrew 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:11.160 McIntosh, in 1903. His parents were Andrew McIntosh, 00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:14.059 who was born at Catherine Fields, and he was 00:17:14.059 --> 00:17:18.559 born in 1854, and he married Ada Fryer, who was 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.920 born in 1868. They married at Parramatta in 1888. 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.420 Andrew is listed as a grazier. And both Andrew 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:29.900 and Ada lived their lives and passed at Cobbity. 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.420 Now, Fred McIntosh in his early years played 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:36.740 polo. He was quite a number one polo jersey. 00:17:37.349 --> 00:17:39.809 out at Cobbity. And the McIntosh brothers at 00:17:39.809 --> 00:17:44.150 Cobbity were also involved in breeding and exhibiting 00:17:44.150 --> 00:17:46.730 air shears, jerseys and short horns. They were 00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:49.470 connecting with the Camden Park Estate Company. 00:17:49.670 --> 00:17:53.109 I'll read you. At the Camden show in 1917, the 00:17:53.109 --> 00:17:56.569 competition was keen amongst exhibitions of air 00:17:56.569 --> 00:17:59.369 shears, jerseys and short horns with Camden Park 00:17:59.369 --> 00:18:02.470 Estate Company and McIntosh brothers Cobbity. 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.220 and a minto farmer, Jay Clark. So the McIntoshes 00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:09.720 are mixing with Camden Park Estate, these big 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:15.980 landowners. And Camden Park, of course, was Camden. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.279 John MacArthur, Elizabeth MacArthur were the 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.359 founders of Camden Park Estate. And Camden itself 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.559 had 10 dairies in the 20th century, including 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.819 the famous Rodelactor, which opened in the early 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:33.089 50s. You'd remember the Rotolacta if you're a 00:18:33.089 --> 00:18:35.890 bit older. Now, I know Camden Park well because 00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:40.789 I was engaged by the Trust to undertake the 20th 00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:44.009 century history recreation for them. Ran for 00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:46.609 a number of years. It's all archived. And in 00:18:46.609 --> 00:18:50.809 19... 28 at the Hawkesbury show there was a man 00:18:50.809 --> 00:18:53.829 that stood out a Mr C .D. Shadlow from Fairfield 00:18:53.829 --> 00:18:56.589 and he did well with the best cow which was named 00:18:56.589 --> 00:19:00.609 May 3rd of Fairfield. Mr Shadlow also won both 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:04.890 milking competitions. One cow Primrose of Denby 00:19:05.789 --> 00:19:08.490 was purchased from the McIntosh brothers of Cobbity. 00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:11.170 And it was a government test cow with a record 00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:16.630 of 13 ,800 pounds of milk in 270 days. Now in 00:19:16.630 --> 00:19:20.849 1931, the Camden Polo season started and it opened 00:19:20.849 --> 00:19:24.069 at Cobbity and Fred McIntosh was on the team. 00:19:24.150 --> 00:19:27.670 And he was mixing then with the MacArthur Onslows. 00:19:27.769 --> 00:19:31.630 So they were an established family with strong 00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:35.180 connections. in the dairying industry and also 00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:39.140 through sport, an elite sport, polo. In 1934, 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.819 Fred's team won the Cup, obviously an established 00:19:42.819 --> 00:19:46.539 horseman as well. But his father passed in 1941 00:19:46.539 --> 00:19:49.960 and there's an article that he writes in 1946 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:54.480 where his address is Woodside Park, Bury. Now 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.740 in 1946, where he forms part of a delegation 00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:01.869 with the New South Wales... Agricultural Minister, 00:20:02.190 --> 00:20:05.210 Mr Graham, they're going on an international 00:20:05.210 --> 00:20:08.529 mission selecting cattle to improve the breeding 00:20:08.529 --> 00:20:11.470 on the south coast. They were selecting Ayrshire 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.230 cattle in North Scotland. He was most impressed 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.289 there. The tour was a five -week tour to the 00:20:18.289 --> 00:20:22.029 UK and Canada. He observed artificial insemination 00:20:22.029 --> 00:20:24.990 demonstrations. and he was very impressed with 00:20:24.990 --> 00:20:27.789 the quality of the pastures in Scotland. In 1947, 00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:30.849 there was a welcome home party by the Berry Farming 00:20:30.849 --> 00:20:33.769 League. Minister Graham was present also. Eighty 00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:36.089 people were present. Fred said he was impressed 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:39.230 by the Frisians, and he purchased an 11 -month 00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:42.349 bull for the government, which was AI bred. The 00:20:42.349 --> 00:20:44.509 standard of ashes were better in England and 00:20:44.509 --> 00:20:47.430 Scotland compared to Australia, he said. He observed 00:20:47.430 --> 00:20:50.829 superior farm management overseas, from hay storage, 00:20:51.309 --> 00:20:54.319 hay stacking to machinery. and the harnessing 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:57.460 of horses and the leather work. They could teach 00:20:57.460 --> 00:21:01.759 us a lot in conserving fodder, he states. In 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.619 1950, Fred became president of the Better Farming 00:21:05.619 --> 00:21:09.150 League and he announced two... the farming community 00:21:09.150 --> 00:21:12.390 in the Shoalhaven that the minister was intending 00:21:12.390 --> 00:21:15.869 to open up an AI centre on the south coast. Now, 00:21:15.869 --> 00:21:18.569 before that was announced, Fred required all 00:21:18.569 --> 00:21:21.930 farmers to fill in a questionnaire to establish 00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:24.490 what sort of cattle numbers they needed at the 00:21:24.490 --> 00:21:26.970 centre, which was going to be established in 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:30.789 Berry. So this was a major shift in cattle reproduction, 00:21:31.269 --> 00:21:34.589 introducing science to the farmer, sterility. 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.180 charts, measuring output, and every cow was to 00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:40.960 be examined by a vet. Fred had developed first 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.920 -hand knowledge observing latest methods overseas, 00:21:44.180 --> 00:21:48.579 key influences to establish the AI centre in 00:21:48.579 --> 00:21:51.980 Berry. Today, Fred's son, Bob, runs the dairy 00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:55.319 farm Woodside in Berry, and he's currently milking 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.829 approximately 295 cows. It gets us to who am 00:21:59.829 --> 00:22:03.250 I interviewing today? I'm introducing David Armstrong, 00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:09.509 who was the manager of the AI Centre. What's 00:22:09.509 --> 00:22:11.690 your full name, David, and where were you born? 00:22:12.170 --> 00:22:16.329 My full name is David Erskine Armstrong. I was 00:22:16.329 --> 00:22:20.410 born at Wollongong and reared on a dairy farm 00:22:20.410 --> 00:22:23.509 out the back of Dapto. That's where I went to 00:22:23.509 --> 00:22:27.819 primary school and then I went away to... boarding 00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:33.019 school at Hurlston Agricultural High School and 00:22:33.019 --> 00:22:38.259 from there I went on to do agriculture at Hawkesbury 00:22:38.259 --> 00:22:42.779 Ag College. That was quite a popular course, 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.720 wasn't it? Yes. So you had to be a bit bright 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:51.339 to do that, didn't you? Well, probably. Without 00:22:51.339 --> 00:22:54.890 a doubt. What year were you born and where? I 00:22:54.890 --> 00:22:59.690 was born 6th of April 1936 at Wollongong. What 00:22:59.690 --> 00:23:04.349 were your plans with your studies? More my father's 00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:08.269 plans. My elder brother did exactly the same 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:12.910 as I did. Primary school, Halston, high school, 00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:18.009 Hawkesbury Ag College. And I just followed suit 00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:21.450 through those. Having been born on a dairy farm, 00:23:21.609 --> 00:23:25.579 we were agriculturally... Motivated. So you were 00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:29.099 born on a dairy farm? The Bacadapto, Avondale. 00:23:29.859 --> 00:23:32.819 Avondale. How many cows were you milking at Avondale? 00:23:33.099 --> 00:23:36.059 My father would have been milking probably about, 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:41.779 vary between 70 and 90 in those days. No doubt. 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.279 Were they the Illawarra Shorthorns he was milking? 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.279 Yes, they were Illawarra Shorthorn. Did you have 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.599 much to do with that early breeding yourself 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:54.230 as a young man? No, none at all. What about your 00:23:54.230 --> 00:23:58.450 dad? Well, they were always buying new bulls 00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:01.890 and so forth, usually from a stud at Jamboree. 00:24:02.029 --> 00:24:06.130 That was the pattern. They didn't use artificial 00:24:06.130 --> 00:24:10.710 breeding until... Until after the war. Long after. 00:24:11.049 --> 00:24:14.289 What was your journey to Berry? Why did you come 00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:19.250 here? I came here to work at Graham Park Artificial 00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:23.430 Stock Breeding Centre. I started there in 1965, 00:24:24.009 --> 00:24:28.029 October long weekend, 1965 as a matter of fact. 00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:33.549 My title back then was Special Officer and my 00:24:33.549 --> 00:24:38.589 duties mainly were breeding and buying and bringing 00:24:38.589 --> 00:24:43.009 bulls in and out and so forth. I never inseminated 00:24:43.009 --> 00:24:45.970 a cow. What cows were you dealing with then? 00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:51.339 We mainly were concentrating on the... Frisians, 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:56.079 Illawarras and Jerseys and to a lesser extent 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:01.539 Guernseys and Ayrshires and the odd beefball, 00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:06.240 mainly Pole Hereford and Angus. How long had 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.240 the centre been established before you arrived? 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:15.299 It basically started in 1958, so it had been 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:18.299 going a little bit short of 10 years. And who 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:21.299 was running it when you arrived? When I arrived, 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:24.099 it was being run by the New South Wales Milk 00:25:24.099 --> 00:25:28.660 Board. The original centre was down Wharf Road 00:25:28.660 --> 00:25:32.880 and that was operated by the Department of Agriculture. 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.900 The Minister, Eddie Graham, decided that the 00:25:37.900 --> 00:25:40.619 Department of Agriculture weren't quite the body 00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:43.920 to run an artificial stock breeding centre, so 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.640 he switched it over to the New South Wales Milk 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:51.279 Board. Main reason being that the Department 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.079 of Agriculture had to rely on funds from the 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.740 government funds, whereas the New South Wales 00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:02.880 Milk Board developed their own funds from milk 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.759 that they paid the dairy farmers for and charged 00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:10.579 the users for. So the Milk Board, was that a 00:26:10.579 --> 00:26:15.539 private entity? No, it was a government body. 00:26:16.460 --> 00:26:22.059 with a chairman and he was a previously a Labor 00:26:22.059 --> 00:26:26.400 Member of Parliament and a very, very capable 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.980 man. And do you remember the Labor Minister's 00:26:29.980 --> 00:26:35.200 name? The Labor Minister was Eddie Graham and 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:39.759 the Premier at the time was Carl. When they started 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:44.390 the New South Wales Milk Board, they put Jack 00:26:44.390 --> 00:26:48.829 Ferguson in as chairman. And he had been a union 00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:51.670 rep and et cetera, et cetera, but a very, very 00:26:51.670 --> 00:26:57.869 tuned -in man. And so they set themselves up 00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:04.990 as a board, two representing the dairy farmers 00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:10.369 and one representing the consumers. So it was 00:27:10.369 --> 00:27:15.859 a board of four or five. and the secretary, of 00:27:15.859 --> 00:27:19.059 course, who was the head charangue, and that 00:27:19.059 --> 00:27:22.819 was in Sydney. Did we have a representative here 00:27:22.819 --> 00:27:25.299 in Bury on that board, do you know, or in the 00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:29.359 region? No, we didn't have a representative here. 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:35.180 Later on, when the producers rips back then, 00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:39.420 one was from up Campbelltown Way and the other 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:43.720 one was from up the north coast a bit. But a 00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:49.700 dairy farmer here, Fred McIntosh, he was basically 00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:53.119 the instigator of the artificial stock breeding 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.720 being developed in Bury. He had travelled widely 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.700 overseas and purchased air shears for his stud 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:08.319 purposes. So he was instrumental with Eddie Graham, 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.720 the minister, in getting the government to agree 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.160 to... when the New South Wales Milk Board took 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:20.039 it over to acquire the 186 acres out of Berry 00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.839 and closed the artificial one down at Wharf Road 00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:30.920 which was not sufficiently large to expand. So 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:36.519 in 1958 basically the one down there closed and 00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:42.369 the new modern one which had been designed on 00:28:42.369 --> 00:28:47.589 tours from overseas centres and so forth. Most 00:28:47.589 --> 00:28:49.809 of the publications you see, they all say it 00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:53.009 was the most modern artificial stock breeding 00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:56.190 centre in the world, which we couldn't disagree 00:28:56.190 --> 00:28:59.490 with. Were vets involved here? Is it Dr George 00:28:59.490 --> 00:29:03.730 Boris? Boris. They called him Boris, did they? 00:29:04.150 --> 00:29:08.470 Yeah, yeah. Did you meet him? Oh, yeah. He and 00:29:08.470 --> 00:29:12.809 Artie Dennis, Artie McDennis. were two very good 00:29:12.809 --> 00:29:16.009 vets. He was an immigrant, was the other one? 00:29:16.329 --> 00:29:20.690 Yeah. What was his last name? Madenis. Madenis. 00:29:20.750 --> 00:29:24.349 Where was he from? He was Gerongong. I don't 00:29:24.349 --> 00:29:26.210 know. Something makes me think they might have 00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:30.470 been from Hungary. Okay, yes. After the war came 00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:33.309 over, probably. Yeah, because we didn't have 00:29:33.309 --> 00:29:38.109 vets here. No. Not in any number. No. So their 00:29:38.109 --> 00:29:42.200 contribution was what? Well, they were basically 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:46.420 brought in to work with their dairy factory. 00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:49.700 So Artie worked with the berry factory. Dennis 00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:52.299 worked with the gerongong factory. And there 00:29:52.299 --> 00:29:54.460 was another one who worked with the narrow factory 00:29:54.460 --> 00:30:00.119 whose name escapes me now. As the use of artificial 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.140 breeding progressed, they started to do some 00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:08.869 inseminations. The bulk of the inseminations 00:30:08.869 --> 00:30:13.930 were done by staff from Graham Park. Artificial 00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:18.230 breeding really started in Russia. I give credit 00:30:18.230 --> 00:30:24.990 of about 1934, and then places like Denmark and 00:30:24.990 --> 00:30:28.730 then England, a bit after that Canada and America, 00:30:29.049 --> 00:30:32.529 and about the same time as Australia and New 00:30:32.529 --> 00:30:37.309 Zealand. Advent of the AI was... involve veterinary 00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:42.049 surgeons. First, New South Wales was up at the 00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:46.990 Glenfield Veterinary Search Station. That's where 00:30:46.990 --> 00:30:50.650 the first AI bred calf was born in Australia. 00:30:51.130 --> 00:30:56.849 And so vets from there had considerable involvement 00:30:56.849 --> 00:31:01.000 in the early days of getting the... practical 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:04.759 applications of artificial breeding going up 00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:09.039 at Glenfield, and also we had the centre up at 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.079 Aberdeen in the Hunter Valley, which was run 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:17.099 by the Hunter Valley Dairy Co -op. When the New 00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.960 South Wales Milk Board started out here at Graham 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:26.359 Park, they also took over the Hunter Valley AI 00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:29.680 Centre. Who were you dealing with in your job? 00:31:30.509 --> 00:31:34.390 Most of my dealing was with inseminators to a 00:31:34.390 --> 00:31:38.690 degree to give them information on the background 00:31:38.690 --> 00:31:41.549 of our bulls and the quality of the bulls. I'll 00:31:41.549 --> 00:31:44.049 slow it down there. So the background of the 00:31:44.049 --> 00:31:46.650 bulls and the quality of the bulls, so you're 00:31:46.650 --> 00:31:49.349 buying the bulls, you're selecting them. Yeah. 00:31:49.470 --> 00:31:53.049 So how are you doing that? Well, we had, for 00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:58.069 example, Fred McIntosh, the local dairyman here. 00:31:58.890 --> 00:32:02.130 Back then, a chap named Bob Ald from the Department 00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:05.190 of Agriculture. Myself, we were basically the 00:32:05.190 --> 00:32:09.450 bull selectors, so I'd go off with either Bob 00:32:09.450 --> 00:32:13.430 Ald or Fred McIntosh. A photograph there is of 00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:18.869 the three of us at a sale in Victoria. So most 00:32:18.869 --> 00:32:23.269 of my time was giving bull information to the 00:32:23.269 --> 00:32:25.750 inseminators so they could give it to the farmers. 00:32:26.569 --> 00:32:30.589 Also... liaising with stud breeders to have special 00:32:30.589 --> 00:32:33.670 cows bred to special bulls, hoping we'd get a 00:32:33.670 --> 00:32:37.289 bull result. Are you selecting bulls at sale 00:32:37.289 --> 00:32:42.130 yards? No, we bought, I think over the time, 00:32:42.190 --> 00:32:46.750 about two or three from stud sales. The balance 00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:50.130 of them we bought from the actual breeder of 00:32:50.130 --> 00:32:54.200 them on his farm. Would that have been locally 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.920 or you're travelling for this? So Queensland, 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:02.259 New South Wales, Victoria, a few from South Australia 00:33:02.259 --> 00:33:06.259 and a couple from New Zealand. And back there 00:33:06.259 --> 00:33:12.359 in the late 1950s, about 1956, the Department 00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.660 of Agriculture imported some bulls from both 00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:20.420 Canada and from England or Jersey Island. Some 00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:24.819 of them became notable. particularly in the Friesian 00:33:24.819 --> 00:33:28.660 line. There was a bull, Snyder's Fond Hope King. 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.880 Could you say that name again? Snyder's Fond 00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:35.400 Hope King. And there was Frasier Lord Jewel, 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.859 Trail and Royal Bow, three notable bulls in the 00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:45.380 Friesian breed. A couple from England didn't 00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:48.460 do as well here in Australia as the Canadian 00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:51.859 bulls did. The Canadian bulls seem to be able 00:33:51.859 --> 00:33:57.799 to improve the type, size and etc. of our cattle. 00:33:57.980 --> 00:34:03.259 But we also imported Jersey from Jersey Island, 00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:07.440 the Mounts Orange boy was his name, and a bit 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.260 later a Jersey from New Zealand, Maryland, Gold 00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:14.880 Spot. Then we bought a Jersey bull at a sale 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:18.639 in Sydney, New Zealand bull, Branston Royal Democrat. 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:24.780 Then more later years, we bought a number of 00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:27.840 Friesian bulls from New Zealand. I went over 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.480 there with a breeder that was then on our bull 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.000 selection committee, Jack Ward. He was also president 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.059 of the Friesian Association. And we went over 00:34:37.059 --> 00:34:40.960 to New Zealand twice and bought bulls. And I'll 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:43.340 just slow you down. When you say you bought bulls, 00:34:43.340 --> 00:34:48.730 tell us what that is. You go and look, go to 00:34:48.730 --> 00:34:52.449 a... You go to a stud, we look... What are you 00:34:52.449 --> 00:34:55.789 looking for? We're looking for, in the bull, 00:34:56.030 --> 00:35:00.630 we'll say sound structure, but we're more interested 00:35:00.630 --> 00:35:05.429 in the parentage. So we're looking at the cows, 00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:09.690 could be half -sisters, there could be a number 00:35:09.690 --> 00:35:13.610 in the female line to look at to make sure they 00:35:13.610 --> 00:35:18.389 were... A, good producers, B, soundly structured, 00:35:18.650 --> 00:35:23.190 particularly as far as feet and legs utter, B, 00:35:23.329 --> 00:35:26.190 of good breed type. That was the thing to watch 00:35:26.190 --> 00:35:29.769 for was the quality of the stock. And that's 00:35:29.769 --> 00:35:33.710 why we had a breed represented on the bull selection 00:35:33.710 --> 00:35:38.610 committee. We also had a Illawarra breeder, Ron 00:35:38.610 --> 00:35:41.349 Dodge, from up in the Hunter Valley. Usually 00:35:41.349 --> 00:35:44.150 took him if we had some Illawarras to look at. 00:35:44.289 --> 00:35:47.349 But the Illawarras being Australian, there was 00:35:47.349 --> 00:35:50.909 no importation involved. But we had some very 00:35:50.909 --> 00:35:53.730 good bulls. There was Tabagong Beauty's Design, 00:35:54.269 --> 00:35:57.730 Sunnyview Princess Hope. We brought him down 00:35:57.730 --> 00:36:01.670 from Queensland. River Oaks Democrat was another 00:36:01.670 --> 00:36:06.210 bull in the Illawarra breeds that left a mark. 00:36:06.590 --> 00:36:08.849 There's quite a selection of breeds there, aren't 00:36:08.849 --> 00:36:11.469 there? Yeah. So it's not just, is it all about 00:36:11.469 --> 00:36:13.670 milk production? What else are you looking for? 00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:16.409 Is this what it's about or is it about multiple 00:36:16.409 --> 00:36:19.130 things? Well, we're looking at milk production. 00:36:19.170 --> 00:36:23.570 Quite some time ago, there were areas such as 00:36:23.570 --> 00:36:28.230 the far north coast were fairly dominated by 00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:31.690 jerseys because of their higher milk quality. 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.519 The butterfat. Yeah, the butterfat. So in this 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.659 area here, there were some Jersey studs. There 00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:41.920 was one out here at Jasper's Brush, one out at 00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.920 Tula Jewel that I remember vividly. Can you remember 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:49.019 the names of the people that had the studs? The 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:52.679 one out at Jasper's Brush was Lindsay Cochran 00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:56.420 and the one out at Tula Jewel was John Webb. 00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:59.739 Neither of those studs are operating now. When 00:36:59.739 --> 00:37:03.480 I came to Berry, the factory had about 100 plus 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:07.599 supplies of milk. Now they have got none. So 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.320 the dairy industry has changed dramatically. 00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:13.820 And that, of course, has had an effect on artificial 00:37:13.820 --> 00:37:16.739 breeding. It's a very different landscape to 00:37:16.739 --> 00:37:19.619 what you're seeing today because you would have 00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:24.119 seen many silos in the fields. Well, probably 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.019 the thing back then was that there was... dairy 00:37:27.019 --> 00:37:34.719 farms with probably 70 to 90 odd milking cows, 00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:40.719 initially using a bull breeding them, and then 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:44.840 progressively we had to convert them over, some 00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:47.360 very successfully, some not so successfully, 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:50.639 to use artificial breeding. Can I ask when that 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:54.159 started to happen here, like when AI started 00:37:54.159 --> 00:38:01.400 to be implemented? You'd say about 1958, early, 00:38:01.579 --> 00:38:06.500 mid -50s, 58, artificial breeding started to 00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:11.420 progressively get used. Of course, we had the 00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:16.280 inseminators here, and the dairy farmers would 00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:19.539 ring up in the morning and they'd duly go out 00:38:19.539 --> 00:38:23.460 on their run and do their inseminations, and 00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:27.500 then we progressed. to up onto the Tablelands, 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.340 Moss Vale. The Hunter Valley was already going 00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:34.820 due to the Aberdeen Centre. Then progressively 00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:39.940 we moved inseminators into other spots such as 00:38:39.940 --> 00:38:44.860 Grafton, Wollongbar. Most of the modern major 00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:49.380 dairies would have one or two inseminators who 00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:53.400 would take their calls, go out and... So they 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.159 were on the road, some of these guys. The semen 00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:00.079 is sitting in, how do you keep it alive? Well, 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.900 back then, initially, it was liquid semen and 00:39:04.900 --> 00:39:08.860 it was only good for about three days, held with 00:39:08.860 --> 00:39:14.059 dry ice. A bit later, we introduced glass ampoules, 00:39:14.139 --> 00:39:17.980 which were fairly effective in that they could 00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:21.360 be carried in liquid nitrogen. and stored for 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.400 weeks, months, years, provided you kept the nitrogen 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:28.400 up. To use the glass sample, you had to break 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.920 the top off it, then extract the semen out of 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.360 the glass sample into a glass pipette and seminate 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.159 the cow. More lately, they introduced, or we 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:45.719 introduced the straw, which was, I think, basically 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.860 a French development. but it was an ideal thing 00:39:50.860 --> 00:39:55.820 that could be stored in liquid nitrogen and the 00:39:55.820 --> 00:39:59.699 inseminator would just take the straw out of 00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:03.880 the liquid nitrogen, thaw it, put it in his pet 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:06.440 inseminate, the cow, so there was a lot less 00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.659 handling of the semen. Did that increase success 00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:12.579 rate? I think probably it improved the conception 00:40:12.579 --> 00:40:16.739 rate. Semen wasn't being handled as much. In 00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:20.380 liquid nitrogen, you had a constant temperature, 00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:24.059 whereas back with the old dry ice, somebody only 00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:26.059 had to be a little bit tardy and there wasn't 00:40:26.059 --> 00:40:29.679 enough dry ice to maintain it at the required 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:33.440 or preferred temperature. How expensive were 00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:37.360 the balls to purchase? They varied. Back originally, 00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:42.360 we would probably somewhere around about $1 ,000. 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:49.260 In more recent years, around about 1970s, when 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:54.119 we were selecting cows to breed to certain bulls, 00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.699 we'd go out and see the farmer, inspect the cow 00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:03.699 and its relative relations, and then sign a contract 00:41:03.699 --> 00:41:08.619 with him to breed that cow to bull A. We would 00:41:08.619 --> 00:41:14.039 basically set a price. And then we altered that 00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:18.659 a bit later on by taking, again, a contract. 00:41:19.139 --> 00:41:24.139 But when the bull was proved successful and used 00:41:24.139 --> 00:41:27.300 more extensively, the owner or the breeder of 00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:31.960 the bull got paid a royalty. So if the bull was 00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:34.800 very good, he got a lot more money than just 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:38.679 the value of the bull. What about how much were 00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:42.909 farmers paying? for their cows to be inseminated? 00:41:43.170 --> 00:41:46.929 It wasn't very expensive, but I can't give you 00:41:46.929 --> 00:41:49.710 an exact figure, not being an inseminator, but 00:41:49.710 --> 00:41:52.150 it wouldn't have been much more than a few dollars. 00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:56.250 Was there a big local demand? The demand, you 00:41:56.250 --> 00:42:01.309 mean the demand for AI? Yes. Well, it just progressed 00:42:01.309 --> 00:42:05.570 as they had, we'll say, more selection of bulls. 00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:09.489 Initially, they were bulls that looked good. 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:13.079 had fairly good parentage, not necessarily outstanding 00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:17.559 themselves. So around about the 1970s, 80s, they 00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:20.900 started doing the Australian breeding value, 00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:24.920 which was calculated on the milk production of 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:28.679 the daughters of a bull. So we set up a sire 00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:32.219 evaluation plan, and we were bringing in young 00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:36.519 bulls. As soon as they were able to produce usable 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:41.019 semen, we had herds that were cooperating and 00:42:41.019 --> 00:42:43.760 breeding their cows to these young bulls. So 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.559 eventually we had the daughters of these young 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:50.099 bulls assessed on milk production. It was decided 00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:53.719 which were the better ones and the not so good, 00:42:53.780 --> 00:42:56.820 so some got culled on their performance. Others 00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:59.840 got put into more broader use because of their 00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:03.420 performance. How did you keep your records? Well, 00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:07.079 the Department of Agriculture... provided a herd 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:11.059 recording service. They had herd recording personnel 00:43:11.059 --> 00:43:15.860 situated in various districts and they would, 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:20.679 for instance, go to herd A today, get all the 00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.340 milk records out of those cows that were milked 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:26.199 that day and then tomorrow they'd be at herd 00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:29.800 B. So around about every month they would register 00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:32.820 their milk production figures. They were calculated 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:36.099 to determine which bulls were superior to another 00:43:36.099 --> 00:43:39.500 bull. Science was getting more refined to production. 00:43:39.820 --> 00:43:42.139 Yeah, production and, of course, confirmation. 00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:46.199 Yes. You've got to keep the confirmation. Like 00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:51.320 any prized animal, isn't it? Yeah. If they haven't 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:54.920 got good udder and good teat placement for modern 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:59.699 milking machines, they're a problem. So anything 00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:03.239 that is not breeding... Good quality confirmation 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:08.880 is out too. Graeme Park moved to a new facility 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.219 and there's quite a few bull yards there. Where 00:44:12.219 --> 00:44:14.320 was the new facility? You probably mentioned 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:18.239 it, but what road was it on? Well, it was actually 00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:22.099 on the Princess Highway, about a mile south of 00:44:22.099 --> 00:44:26.420 Bury. A mile south. So what's it near there? 00:44:27.210 --> 00:44:29.650 What side of the road? Well, it's on the... The 00:44:29.650 --> 00:44:32.929 high road. The western side, the mountain side. 00:44:33.170 --> 00:44:38.010 Yes. 186 acres and it's subdivided or there's 00:44:38.010 --> 00:44:40.550 a road up, goes up the centre of it, Schofields 00:44:40.550 --> 00:44:43.550 Lane. It was quite a big operation by the look 00:44:43.550 --> 00:44:47.869 of things. Oh, yes, it was a new innovation because 00:44:47.869 --> 00:44:50.349 artificial stock breeding centres up till then 00:44:50.349 --> 00:44:55.739 had been the Hunter Valley one. Glenfield fiddled 00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:59.440 around for a while, and the one here at the Department 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.260 of Ag at Bury was taken over by the Milk Board, 00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:05.619 and this was developed. It amazes me. I think 00:45:05.619 --> 00:45:08.099 that was built in about two years, quick building. 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:12.900 At the same time, Victoria started a centre down 00:45:12.900 --> 00:45:16.000 there, but theirs was a different structure to 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:21.119 here. This was a, we'll call it a semi -government 00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:23.940 -owned. The Victorian was set up. as a cooperative. 00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.619 More later years, two members of our staff out 00:45:27.619 --> 00:45:32.380 here left, and one set up a centre at Bundanoon, 00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:35.460 at that stage specialising more in beef cattle, 00:45:35.579 --> 00:45:38.519 and another one set up a centre down at Tongala 00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:42.579 in Victoria, and that was predominantly dairy 00:45:42.579 --> 00:45:45.239 bulls down there. The Department of Agriculture 00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:48.880 started one at Wacol in Brisbane, and about the 00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:52.380 same time that Graham Park closed down. The Wacol 00:45:52.380 --> 00:45:55.800 one closed down. You were training farmers to 00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:00.500 AI as well. You ran training courses? Yes. That 00:46:00.500 --> 00:46:04.460 would have been around about the 1970s, the first 00:46:04.460 --> 00:46:08.699 training of farmers. And that was started by 00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:12.619 a chap that went down to the Tongala Centre. 00:46:13.219 --> 00:46:18.579 And he very successfully got farmers to be trained. 00:46:19.179 --> 00:46:22.960 and then carry out their own inseminations, which, 00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:27.239 of course, gave them a leg in with their semen 00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:32.340 versus our semen. So then we had to start training. 00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:38.239 I think probably we trained people from the Victorian 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:42.739 border to the Queensland border, and I'd say 00:46:42.739 --> 00:46:47.039 probably by about the late 1980s, there would 00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:50.079 have been 3 ,000 or more. we would have trained. 00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.340 And most of them turned out fairly successful 00:46:52.340 --> 00:46:57.179 with breeding their own cattle. But then that 00:46:57.179 --> 00:47:00.900 started to have an effect on artificial centres 00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:03.599 because they could then, rather than relying 00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:06.719 on an inseminator to bring the semen, they could 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:09.900 go to any centre and buy whatever semen they 00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:13.079 wanted. Semen started to become available from 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:16.739 Canada and America, which previously it hadn't 00:47:16.739 --> 00:47:20.059 been. Canadian bulls that I mentioned earlier 00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:23.480 made a demand for Canadian and American semen. 00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:28.059 So then that started to delete the amount of 00:47:28.059 --> 00:47:32.280 semen that was used in Australian centres. Artificial 00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:35.880 breeding bulls were mainly from Canada. Canadian 00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:38.420 ones were the more successful. You mentioned 00:47:38.420 --> 00:47:43.679 Hugh Haveler, agronomist working on pastures. 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.940 He was a person employed by... The AI Centre? 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:50.239 No, he was employed by the Department of Agriculture. 00:47:50.260 --> 00:47:54.099 That's right. There was he and another agronomist 00:47:54.099 --> 00:47:58.559 and they had a couple of field assistants and 00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.539 they would go out and set up trials with certain 00:48:02.539 --> 00:48:06.719 types of grass and so forth just to improve the 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.579 forage that was available to the milking cow. 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:13.030 How important was their work? Well, really it 00:48:13.030 --> 00:48:16.429 was fairly important because back in the earlier 00:48:16.429 --> 00:48:20.409 days, pasture in this area was predominantly 00:48:20.409 --> 00:48:24.010 paspalum. Palum dilatatum is the correct word 00:48:24.010 --> 00:48:28.349 for it. More seasonal grass. A certain period 00:48:28.349 --> 00:48:31.889 of the year it would go to seed and get ergot 00:48:31.889 --> 00:48:35.829 on the seed, which made the cows sticky. So then 00:48:35.829 --> 00:48:40.300 they were trying to get more... ryegrass and 00:48:40.300 --> 00:48:44.119 kaiquia. The ryegrass was probably the better 00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:49.460 milking grass, but the kaiquia just went 12 months 00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:53.380 of the year. It didn't take tally off. That's 00:48:53.380 --> 00:48:56.159 what Hugh and his staff were doing, was getting 00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:59.360 the better quality pastures with clovers and 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.300 so forth mixed in with them. Because that would 00:49:02.300 --> 00:49:05.760 have surely linked in with the breeding as well. 00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:09.559 Would feed play a big role? Well, I think you 00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:12.840 could say yes, because I can think of one dairy 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:16.719 farm which I won't name, but it was basically 00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:20.960 old Tuskegee Parramatta grass. Poor old cows 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.519 were flat out surviving on it. So it was that 00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.619 sort of pasture that he was endeavouring to get 00:49:27.619 --> 00:49:30.800 farmers to switch over to the better quality, 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.659 more nutrient -rich pastures, and then they would 00:49:34.659 --> 00:49:38.079 produce more milk off it. That was all the agronomy 00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:42.719 side. Was that part of your facility? They started 00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:46.579 off down where the original AI centre was and 00:49:46.579 --> 00:49:50.199 eventually moved over to Graham Park. It's still 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.239 there. It's still being used as a Department 00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:55.760 of Agriculture section. What was your section? 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.519 Where did you work? Well, basically the office. 00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:03.219 In the admin block? Yeah. Where were you living? 00:50:03.659 --> 00:50:07.670 Here. So here is Victoria Street. And this house. 00:50:08.030 --> 00:50:12.170 In this house. So Barry's changed a bit, hasn't 00:50:12.170 --> 00:50:15.170 it? Oh, drastically. What was it like when you 00:50:15.170 --> 00:50:17.190 arrived here? What did you think of the place? 00:50:17.550 --> 00:50:21.849 Well, Barry back then was, in 1965 and up for 00:50:21.849 --> 00:50:25.409 some years later, was very community -minded. 00:50:25.710 --> 00:50:32.329 He was somebody, a successful football coach. 00:50:32.909 --> 00:50:35.309 and had a thing at the School of Arts, you know, 00:50:35.329 --> 00:50:38.409 the place would be packed. If Kevin Robinson, 00:50:38.550 --> 00:50:43.030 who knows those, was very successful with trotters, 00:50:43.190 --> 00:50:47.730 if he had big success, there'd be a thing at 00:50:47.730 --> 00:50:51.070 the School of Arts. That sort of happening has 00:50:51.070 --> 00:50:53.949 disappeared. Yeah, well, originally there's a... 00:50:53.949 --> 00:50:55.989 On the other side of the railway line, opposite 00:50:55.989 --> 00:50:59.269 the old dairy factory, that's where the original 00:50:59.269 --> 00:51:04.920 racecourse was. and Bury has got a longer railway 00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:09.639 station than such Gerongong and so forth because 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:13.019 they used to bring trains in from Sydney to the 00:51:13.019 --> 00:51:17.800 races and they had to have long stations to accommodate 00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.860 the carriages. I don't know when that stopped 00:51:20.860 --> 00:51:23.900 being used, to be honest. After that, the only 00:51:23.900 --> 00:51:26.420 thing that happened was trotting races at the 00:51:26.420 --> 00:51:29.280 Bury shows. Thinking about transporting bulls 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:34.460 from New Zealand and Canada. The ones from Canada, 00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:40.000 I think, were shipped over. More recent ones 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:43.719 from New Zealand were flown over. How were they 00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:47.599 collected in a truck? The Nelson family in Kangaroo 00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:51.119 Valley, Dick and his son Ron, used to do all 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:55.619 our bull carting for us and they were amazing 00:51:55.619 --> 00:52:00.429 stock transporters. I'd send Ron off. down in 00:52:00.429 --> 00:52:03.710 Victoria picking up bulls. And I remember on 00:52:03.710 --> 00:52:08.849 one occasion he rang me from Bairnsdale to say 00:52:08.849 --> 00:52:12.510 he would be here at such and such an hour. And 00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:16.489 he was here within about 10 minutes of it. And 00:52:16.489 --> 00:52:19.969 in the hundreds of bulls that they carted over 00:52:19.969 --> 00:52:23.369 the years, I don't remember one being injured. 00:52:23.869 --> 00:52:28.360 They were very, very... Careful drivers, we used 00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:31.380 to move bulls from here up to the Aberdeen Centre 00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:34.260 and bulls from the Aberdeen Centre down here 00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:38.420 for a period, and they used to do that too. They'd 00:52:38.420 --> 00:52:40.900 take a load up and bring a load back. We cut 00:52:40.900 --> 00:52:44.579 that out after a few years and then closed Aberdeen 00:52:44.579 --> 00:52:48.360 down and concentrated on here. The only other 00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:53.300 thing would be hay supplies, hay and... concentrate 00:52:53.300 --> 00:52:56.780 feed suppliers. We put in a silo thing to hold 00:52:56.780 --> 00:53:00.659 the concentrates. Hold, I suppose, about 20 tonne, 00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:03.380 I would say. And then we had the two hay sheds. 00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:09.119 They were used initially for local hay, which 00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:13.579 was old Paspalum hay. So I got more involved 00:53:13.579 --> 00:53:17.000 in the feeding of the bulls, got a contractor 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:21.179 to supply our concentrate food. And they got 00:53:21.179 --> 00:53:25.380 a carrier from down near Wagga to buy good quality 00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:28.619 pasture hay and lucerne hay. His surname was 00:53:28.619 --> 00:53:31.340 Meyer. That's John Meyer, I think it was. Big 00:53:31.340 --> 00:53:35.500 problem was that the two hay sheds were put in 00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:38.900 to cater for a tabletop truck. And he used to 00:53:38.900 --> 00:53:41.780 come with a semi -trailer. But he could back 00:53:41.780 --> 00:53:45.420 in from Schofields Lane down the lane to the 00:53:45.420 --> 00:53:50.230 hay sheds in. He was brilliant. designer Graham 00:53:50.230 --> 00:53:56.010 Park, all the bulls were led from the yard down 00:53:56.010 --> 00:53:58.949 to the collecting yard at the main building. 00:53:59.130 --> 00:54:02.389 That was a time -consuming and to a degree dangerous 00:54:02.389 --> 00:54:06.610 occupation and I did a trip to New Zealand but 00:54:06.610 --> 00:54:09.789 I went to both the centres over there and found 00:54:09.789 --> 00:54:12.289 they had this beautiful trailer that tip it down 00:54:12.289 --> 00:54:15.650 the back, walk the bull up onto it, flatten it 00:54:15.650 --> 00:54:18.550 off when they got to the collecting area, they'd 00:54:18.550 --> 00:54:21.650 tip the front down and walk the bull off. So 00:54:21.650 --> 00:54:24.130 I got one made and we used that out here and 00:54:24.130 --> 00:54:31.869 that got the time factor cut in big portions 00:54:31.869 --> 00:54:35.210 and the safety for the farm staff leading the 00:54:35.210 --> 00:54:39.050 bulls. Any bad accidents happen there with the 00:54:39.050 --> 00:54:43.230 bulls? No, fortunately there wasn't. There was 00:54:43.230 --> 00:54:46.719 one of the old inseminators who was a character 00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:50.099 in his own right there was escape hatches but 00:54:50.099 --> 00:54:54.500 being designed by a architect they were metal 00:54:54.500 --> 00:54:57.880 and he was one day had to take evasive actions 00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:02.480 and the ball basically hit his knee into this 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:06.840 escape thing and peel the skin back off his knee 00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:10.420 and i said to him well come on i'll run you over 00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:13.739 to the hospital oh no take me up to the workshop 00:55:14.429 --> 00:55:16.730 Take him up to the workshop. What did he do? 00:55:16.989 --> 00:55:21.250 Poured some kerosene over it. Then some Stockholm 00:55:21.250 --> 00:55:23.829 tar. Within a couple of weeks, it was as good 00:55:23.829 --> 00:55:27.590 as gold. Do you remember his name? Yeah, Ernie 00:55:27.590 --> 00:55:31.849 Staples. Ernie, when he was an inseminator, the 00:55:31.849 --> 00:55:37.869 inseminators drove the BW Bug, and he had come 00:55:37.869 --> 00:55:41.789 back with a dent in it, and he'd panel beat it 00:55:41.789 --> 00:55:45.030 out. The original dent was better than his panel 00:55:45.030 --> 00:55:48.650 beating. When he retired, he lived out at Geroa. 00:55:48.849 --> 00:55:54.949 He used to go along the frontage there and get 00:55:54.949 --> 00:56:00.429 seaweed for his garden. On one occasion, somebody 00:56:00.429 --> 00:56:03.070 rang and said that he'd been found dead on the 00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:08.090 beach. So Bernie Doyle, who was then the director 00:56:08.090 --> 00:56:11.489 out there and myself, went out. It wasn't Ernie. 00:56:12.469 --> 00:56:16.230 He was a character and a half. Took on riding 00:56:16.230 --> 00:56:19.849 the mower to mow our front lawn and you couldn't 00:56:19.849 --> 00:56:22.190 look out your window. You did not know whether 00:56:22.190 --> 00:56:26.690 he had a dark shirt on or whether he had no shirt 00:56:26.690 --> 00:56:31.489 on. His skin was like very black. He came to 00:56:31.489 --> 00:56:35.159 work one morning and if he got into the... lunch 00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:37.780 room first and made the tea. It was a strong, 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.760 a strong. He came in one morning and he was a 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.559 collector of, had quite an aviary of birds and 00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.099 a bird he had got from somewhere at some fairly 00:56:46.099 --> 00:56:49.260 big price. He said, I went up there this morning 00:56:49.260 --> 00:56:52.219 and here was this bird dead. It was four feet 00:56:52.219 --> 00:56:56.820 in the air. Did you do much socialising together? 00:56:57.659 --> 00:57:02.219 Yeah, we used to always have a fairly good Christmas. 00:57:02.909 --> 00:57:06.809 So your Christmas parties would be at the AI 00:57:06.809 --> 00:57:10.989 Centre? Yeah, there was a big car park area and 00:57:10.989 --> 00:57:15.349 we used to have a barbecue in there and a few 00:57:15.349 --> 00:57:18.789 beers and so forth. Was it mainly men working 00:57:18.789 --> 00:57:21.409 there? Was it a pretty masculine place? We had, 00:57:21.590 --> 00:57:25.969 usually there were two or three women, one the 00:57:25.969 --> 00:57:30.949 exchange, one doing some clerical work and one... 00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:34.820 doing some laboratory work. One that we had on 00:57:34.820 --> 00:57:39.599 the exchange, it was the old plug -in type. She 00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:43.219 had a name all over the country of being the 00:57:43.219 --> 00:57:46.840 best telephonist they had ever dealt with. She 00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:49.900 was brilliant. And what was her name? Norma Wolford. 00:57:50.139 --> 00:57:53.489 Was she a local person? I don't know what stage 00:57:53.489 --> 00:57:57.250 she and her husband moved here, but her son lives 00:57:57.250 --> 00:58:00.369 down here in Princess Street. So Glenfield was 00:58:00.369 --> 00:58:02.789 Department of Agriculture, was it? Yeah, that 00:58:02.789 --> 00:58:04.750 was the Veterinary Research Station. That's right. 00:58:04.989 --> 00:58:11.050 It eventually moved out to Camden. Again, I think 00:58:11.050 --> 00:58:14.929 a very silly departmental move because the one 00:58:14.929 --> 00:58:17.429 at Glenfield, you had Hurlston Agricultural High 00:58:17.429 --> 00:58:20.340 School there on the other side of the road. veterinary 00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:22.480 research station. It was a fairly good combination. 00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:27.199 But then they moved out to the Elizabeth MacArthur 00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:31.739 Research Camden, Monangle probably, not that 00:58:31.739 --> 00:58:35.440 far from the Rotolactor actually, now being sort 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:38.019 of encroached on with development and so forth. 00:58:38.300 --> 00:58:40.619 I can't remember what year it was, but it was 00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:46.699 offered the job of moving up there to be livestock 00:58:46.699 --> 00:58:50.000 coordinator was the title up there. I was there 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.300 for about two years. I eventually decided it 00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:56.639 didn't suit because we had lost a son here. I 00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:59.579 don't think wife Colleen was going to handle 00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:02.360 things if I was up there during the week and 00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:06.219 only here at weekends, so I gave that away. How 00:59:06.219 --> 00:59:10.079 long were you with Berry for? I started there 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:16.260 in October 1965. took over managing in, I think 00:59:16.260 --> 00:59:20.460 it was 1980, the director, Bernie Doyle, he was 00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:24.719 a veterinary surgeon. He got moved to Sydney 00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:27.619 and looked after quarantine and such like. We 00:59:27.619 --> 00:59:31.679 used government vets who were stationed at Kiama 00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:36.079 to do our veterinary work. And then when we went 00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:40.340 under the Department of Agriculture, we couldn't 00:59:40.340 --> 00:59:44.239 use... So we were using the private vets down 00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:47.960 here, Geoff Manning and Geoff Scarlett, who were 00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:51.320 both very good vets. So that was the only time 00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:54.400 we used private vets. What were some of the biggest 00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:58.739 changes you saw in the AI industry, just broadly? 00:59:58.940 --> 01:00:01.219 It's a big question. Well, the biggest changes 01:00:01.219 --> 01:00:07.079 were the processing of semen from liquid to frozen. 01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:10.480 With the liquid, you'd collect it today, dilute 01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:15.320 it, and then ship it out in thermoses, really, 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:19.260 to the inseminators, but you couldn't store any. 01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:23.139 And then when we eventually switched over to 01:00:23.139 --> 01:00:27.360 using the glass ampoules, we got big liquid nitrogen 01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:31.360 storage tanks, and as soon as it was processed 01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:34.989 and frozen, it would go into the storage. But 01:00:34.989 --> 01:00:37.809 the ampoules, as I mentioned before, were not 01:00:37.809 --> 01:00:40.630 as easy to inseminate with. And then we switched 01:00:40.630 --> 01:00:44.070 over to the straws. And one of the advantages 01:00:44.070 --> 01:00:47.309 of the straws was you had a different coloured 01:00:47.309 --> 01:00:50.670 straw for each breed. Whereas with the ampoules, 01:00:50.670 --> 01:00:54.510 they were all glass. And you had to get the exact 01:00:54.510 --> 01:00:58.469 ampoule and read what was printed on it. Whereas 01:00:58.469 --> 01:01:02.309 with the straws, you could... Lift the lid and 01:01:02.309 --> 01:01:05.190 look, and there was the, we'll say, the red straws. 01:01:05.349 --> 01:01:08.349 Right, that's the semen I want of a Frisian bull. 01:01:09.210 --> 01:01:12.530 Providing you weren't colourblind. Yes, it's 01:01:12.530 --> 01:01:17.110 a good point. That would have, might have happened. 01:01:17.530 --> 01:01:21.670 Oh, yes. I'm just trying to think how we did 01:01:21.670 --> 01:01:27.670 have one fellow who was colourblind. But somehow 01:01:27.670 --> 01:01:29.590 or other, he seemed to be able to overcome it 01:01:29.590 --> 01:01:34.719 fairly easily. The chap that handled the storage 01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:37.659 of semen, Stuart Brandon, he now lives over at 01:01:37.659 --> 01:01:45.320 Farm Meadow Bomadery. He was very, very efficient 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:49.840 in handling semen, putting it into liquid nitrogen, 01:01:49.900 --> 01:01:53.119 out of liquid nitrogen, into containers to ship 01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:56.159 off and so forth. His hands, I think, must have 01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:59.239 ended up like loaves of bread. Does that mean 01:01:59.239 --> 01:02:04.619 big? Well, big but also hard from burning with 01:02:04.619 --> 01:02:07.659 the liquid nitrogen. Oh, yes. Because, as you 01:02:07.659 --> 01:02:10.219 know, liquid nitrogen is a fairly low temperature. 01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:13.599 I think it's about 197, I think, from memory. 01:02:13.699 --> 01:02:16.900 But he was very brilliant at his job. How big 01:02:16.900 --> 01:02:20.739 was the reach? How far did your AI get distributed? 01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:24.480 Well, basically, Australia -wide, in the end, 01:02:24.519 --> 01:02:29.079 they had an artificial... breeding board in Western 01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:32.239 Australia but all they did was acquire semen 01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:36.480 from the likes of us take it over there and inseminate 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:42.400 it out so they had no bulls etc so semen was 01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:47.539 Australia wide I don't actually recall any going 01:02:47.539 --> 01:02:50.940 to Northern Territory but I could be wrong there 01:02:50.940 --> 01:02:55.719 we sent some to Indonesia on one occasion some 01:02:56.380 --> 01:03:00.039 to Norfolk Island and Lord Howe Island, a small 01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:03.460 bit of the, particularly the Illawarras, to New 01:03:03.460 --> 01:03:09.059 Zealand. Barry was helped by Graham Park. We 01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:14.139 had one, two, three, four inseminators working. 01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:21.659 We had three farm staff. They all lived locally. 01:03:21.780 --> 01:03:26.130 And then... Office -wise, well, we had one, two, 01:03:26.170 --> 01:03:32.949 three ladies, one fellow, two in the office, 01:03:33.210 --> 01:03:37.750 two in the lab, all lived locally. And, of course, 01:03:37.809 --> 01:03:40.949 over the years, the number of visitors we used 01:03:40.949 --> 01:03:44.329 to get out there, Bill Gill used to have the 01:03:44.329 --> 01:03:49.550 coach company, and he used to bring people from 01:03:49.550 --> 01:03:54.159 America. He'd bring coach loads out there and 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:58.119 they would all leave a dollar or two in berries 01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:02.199 they went by. Farmer groups used to use a berry 01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:05.340 for farmer meetings, local. Groups used to come 01:04:05.340 --> 01:04:08.380 from other parts and individuals and it helped 01:04:08.380 --> 01:04:12.320 bury a lot financially. What for you working 01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:14.139 there? What did you get out of it? What did you 01:04:14.139 --> 01:04:18.179 enjoy the most? I probably enjoyed the fact that 01:04:18.179 --> 01:04:22.300 I was... both office and outside. You must have 01:04:22.300 --> 01:04:24.340 had a bit of fun on those trips. Have you got 01:04:24.340 --> 01:04:26.920 any funny bull stories or anything that was unusual? 01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:32.139 Not really. They were all very sane and sober. 01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:36.380 Yeah. The only funny one I can think of was when 01:04:36.380 --> 01:04:40.900 we were in Queensland with Fred McIntosh. We 01:04:40.900 --> 01:04:44.300 called in and saw our Ayrshire breeder. We weren't 01:04:44.300 --> 01:04:46.239 really looking at bulls at his place, but he 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:48.900 was a long -time friend of... Fred McIntosh. 01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:53.000 And when we were leaving there, it was on dusk. 01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:57.699 And I said, right, and you know where to go from 01:04:57.699 --> 01:05:01.960 here, Mr McIntosh, do you? Ah, yes. Turn left, 01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:04.139 turn left, turn left, and we're back where we 01:05:04.139 --> 01:05:07.760 started. And we stopped in a motel at Wagga one 01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:11.400 night, and he cursed the pillow all night. Next 01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:14.320 morning, I don't know what made me, but I tried 01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.599 a door, and we opened into another one. Much 01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:21.860 better pillow. That's what I liked was the mixture 01:05:21.860 --> 01:05:25.539 of clerical and outside. In the field. Met a 01:05:25.539 --> 01:05:29.760 lot of very nice people. Met some strange people, 01:05:29.940 --> 01:05:33.059 some with different lifestyles. What did you 01:05:33.059 --> 01:05:37.239 wear? Wear a hat? Oh, yeah. Always wore a hat 01:05:37.239 --> 01:05:40.260 and always wore a tie. And a kuba or something? 01:05:40.579 --> 01:05:42.840 Yeah. Tell me a bit about meeting your wife. 01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:47.809 Right, well, I met my wife at DAPTO. at a Masonic 01:05:47.809 --> 01:05:50.849 dance. I was working in Sydney at that stage 01:05:50.849 --> 01:05:55.150 and I'd come down weekends, spend some time with 01:05:55.150 --> 01:05:58.690 mum and dad on the farm and go to the Masonic 01:05:58.690 --> 01:06:02.230 dance and that's where I met her. And then when 01:06:02.230 --> 01:06:05.389 I, I don't know how long that went on for, but 01:06:05.389 --> 01:06:09.070 then I got moved to Melbourne. There were a number 01:06:09.070 --> 01:06:12.409 of us they selected for undergoing training and 01:06:12.409 --> 01:06:16.769 I spent time in Melbourne. Shepparton, Wangaratta, 01:06:16.969 --> 01:06:22.369 Sydney, Brisbane, Rockhampton, Springshore, Barcaldon, 01:06:22.389 --> 01:06:26.210 Longreach and then back to Sydney. All that time 01:06:26.210 --> 01:06:29.670 basically we were just kept in contact by writing 01:06:29.670 --> 01:06:34.269 letters and when I'd have a holiday I'd head 01:06:34.269 --> 01:06:39.349 there. So really our courting days were on paper. 01:06:39.809 --> 01:06:42.590 What year did you marry and where? We married 01:06:42.590 --> 01:06:46.309 in 1960. At Coggera, the Church of England there. 01:06:46.630 --> 01:06:51.710 Yeah. The minister there had been Minister Adapto, 01:06:51.849 --> 01:06:57.250 and we knew him well, so we made use of him at 01:06:57.250 --> 01:06:59.710 Coggera. And what was your wife's full name? 01:07:00.329 --> 01:07:03.510 Colleen Margaret Tully. What year was she born? 01:07:04.429 --> 01:07:07.230 1937. And she's recently passed, unfortunately. 01:07:07.309 --> 01:07:12.769 Yes, last June. So June 24. Strange thing is 01:07:12.769 --> 01:07:16.030 I met her. At a Masonic dance. She passed away 01:07:16.030 --> 01:07:18.909 at a Masonic village. She was down there in Bury, 01:07:18.949 --> 01:07:22.170 was she? Yeah, she had 15 months down there. 01:07:22.690 --> 01:07:30.650 I cared for her here from 2016. And then about, 01:07:30.829 --> 01:07:34.269 I can't remember the exact year, but about 2018, 01:07:34.650 --> 01:07:40.409 I got aged care. Used Anglicare on the recommendation 01:07:40.409 --> 01:07:45.380 of a friend. Ladies come in and care for her 01:07:45.380 --> 01:07:48.380 between 8 o 'clock and 4 o 'clock of an afternoon 01:07:48.380 --> 01:07:51.579 and then I'd take over from then through the 01:07:51.579 --> 01:07:55.739 night to morning. Got to the stage of I just 01:07:55.739 --> 01:07:59.139 couldn't handle it. It's a big role. Oh, a massive 01:07:59.139 --> 01:08:02.139 role. But I used to take her out for a walk every 01:08:02.139 --> 01:08:07.019 day and we were down at Camp Quality and I don't 01:08:07.019 --> 01:08:09.239 know what caused it but anyway she fell and broke 01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:12.920 her left hip. She basically didn't walk. Since 01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:17.680 then, when she was in hospital in Nowra, I couldn't 01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:23.859 get the doctor to get her more care. I couldn't 01:08:23.859 --> 01:08:26.380 get her moved over to the Berry Hospital where 01:08:26.380 --> 01:08:30.640 I could have got more walking care. So she really 01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:35.380 never got walking again. So I used to take her 01:08:35.380 --> 01:08:38.640 around in a wheelchair and then I got a motorised 01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:41.189 wheelchair. Took her around and that, but it 01:08:41.189 --> 01:08:45.069 just got to the stage in March. I had to put 01:08:45.069 --> 01:08:47.789 her in the Masonic Village and they were brilliant. 01:08:49.010 --> 01:08:52.489 Outstanding thing down there is the carers they've 01:08:52.489 --> 01:08:57.829 got from Fiji, India, various places. They are 01:08:57.829 --> 01:09:01.170 brilliant. Apparently about 30 ,000 in Australia. 01:09:01.210 --> 01:09:03.430 It's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. And they're always 01:09:03.430 --> 01:09:07.520 so happy singing. Yeah. And when I go down there, 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:09.560 which I go down about every couple of weeks, 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:14.500 two of the ones that did the day part of Collins, 01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:19.140 Monday to Thursday, they were brilliant. And 01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:21.699 I go down and see them and I catch up with any 01:09:21.699 --> 01:09:24.300 of the Islander girls that are on. They're always 01:09:24.300 --> 01:09:28.760 so happy to see you, give you the greatest cuddle 01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:32.600 possible. I've just about educated most of them 01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:35.420 now because... I'd say to them, how are you? 01:09:35.420 --> 01:09:38.819 And they'd say, good. And I'd say, no, you're 01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:42.840 well. You're not good. So now I go down and I 01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:46.760 say, how are you? Well. You have children? Yeah, 01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:50.800 we had three sons. Our third son we lost with 01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:54.779 a cerebral hemorrhage about 1990, I think. What's 01:09:54.779 --> 01:09:57.659 his name? Brian. And what about your other two 01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:01.180 sons? What are their names? Rodney's a greenkeeper. 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:05.039 head greenkeeper of Bomaderry and Berry bowling 01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:09.680 clubs and lives at Gerongong. And Graham, our 01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:12.680 second son, lives up in Ford Street off Kangaroo 01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:15.739 Valley Road there. Everybody must have their 01:10:15.739 --> 01:10:18.659 Ford name now because Sam's pinched one for ages. 01:10:18.979 --> 01:10:24.460 They used to take the Ford off. And now he's 01:10:24.460 --> 01:10:30.720 retired up there now. And he and his... Lovely 01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:35.420 wife, Debbie, turned us into great -grandparents 01:10:35.420 --> 01:10:38.500 on the 1st of January. Well, that's something 01:10:38.500 --> 01:10:42.539 to live for, isn't it? Yes, yes. And they have 01:10:42.539 --> 01:10:47.779 called him Cooper Tully, Colleen's surname as 01:10:47.779 --> 01:10:49.899 his second name. And you were a member of the 01:10:49.899 --> 01:10:53.600 Berry Bowling Club, were you? Yes, up until I 01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:56.840 had to give more service to Colleen. How long 01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:00.640 was your membership there? Oh, I joined there 01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:04.180 in, I think, about 2000 or thereabouts. What 01:11:04.180 --> 01:11:07.199 sort of bowler were you? I was president for 01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:12.279 about five or six years. I was a mediocre bowler. 01:11:13.060 --> 01:11:16.699 That brings us to the end of the episode. Thanks, 01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:21.260 David. I really enjoyed engaging David. It was 01:11:21.260 --> 01:11:23.600 a very hot day when we did the recording and 01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:25.399 I had to get him to turn the air conditioning 01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:29.539 off. You cannot believe how hot it was for us, 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:33.939 but we got there. Next episode, episode 10, is 01:11:33.939 --> 01:11:36.579 the final episode for this season. I'll bring 01:11:36.579 --> 01:11:39.859 it to you in a few weeks. I'll have my website 01:11:39.859 --> 01:11:42.699 hosting this episode with a couple of photos 01:11:42.699 --> 01:11:48.439 in a few days. Okay, until then, theresesweeney 01:11:48.439 --> 01:11:51.819 .com .au is my website. If you've got an inquiry 01:11:51.819 --> 01:11:54.300 or anything to add, there's a form there. You 01:11:54.300 --> 01:11:57.750 can fill that in and get it to me. Yeah. Okay. 01:11:57.949 --> 01:11:58.590 Ciao.