Welcome to my podcast, Therese Makes History,
The Dairy Lane Project. My primary sponsor for
season two is Ian Zanstra, a very experienced
dairyman on the other side of the river from
Pyree. Season two would not be happening without
Ian's support. I'm very grateful he stepped up.
Thank you, Ian. Season two, episode eight today
is coming to you. My name is Therese Sweeney
and I've been engaging residents who dairy farmed
significant pioneering families during the 20th
century. Today I'm at Mullers Lane Jasper's Brush.
Mullers Lane is named after the Muller family.
They migrated to the Shoalhaven from Prussia
Germany, in 1855, settling in the back forest
Kulungata areas. That is, Jacob and his wife
Anna Hep. They had eight children, the second
born being John Joseph in 1851, and so made the
journey with his family, he was four years old.
John Joseph Muller and Mary Host married in 1886
at Nowra. Catholic Church. It is believed Mullers
Lane is named because of John's extensive generosity
and contribution to community life in the Berry
region throughout his lifetime. Their fifth child
Albert Norman was born at Coolingadda. He married
Bridget Morrissey. at Nowra in 1912. Their son
Norman Joseph settled on farmland of 152 acres
in the area now known as Mullers Lane, Jasper's
Brush. He lived until three months short of 94
years of age. Norman was born in 1918 and began
dairy farming on this land in approximately 1939.
He married Martha Walden. They had five children,
Mary, Peter, John, Keith and Elizabeth. Peter
Muller, the eldest son, stayed to farm the land,
buying it from his father after marrying Rosemary
Smith in 1968. His father Norman then moved to
a house on Albany Street, Bury. They had 50 acres
between the highway and the railway line and
90 acres up to Broughton Creek. In Norman's time,
they started with ear shears and jerseys for
cream, then moved to Friesians when Peter took
over farming. They had a silo and a walk through
dairy. They grew crops, corn and saccharine.
They delivered cream, then milk. to the very
cooperative, up until bulk tankers collected
it in the late 60s. Peter sold the farm in 1982,
as it was not economically viable to continue.
Peter and Rose had two children, Desmond and
Jennifer. Mullers Lane, like most lanes, is approved
by council, usually because the family requests
it to, based on the case they put forward. You
may recall Patrick Muller's recording in season
one in Lamons Lane and their house Pomona which
they lived in for six generations. Patrick Muller
and Peter Muller are first cousins and this lane
was no doubt named after the Mullers because
of their overall contribution to economy and
society. From plans I read in the introductory
episode to Jasper's brush, highlighting the original
landholders and the date they secured acreage,
one of which in Jasper's brush in the Muller
Lane region includes Mark Morton, MLC, who purchased
32 acres in 1915. He was a prominent politician
and the son of Henry Morton and they were both
and significant citizens at the time. His name
comes up quite a bit for various events held
at the Jaspers Brush School of Arts and also
with the Methodist Church. Another landowner
was William Johnson who had two lots, lot number
237, 96 acres and lot number 236, 82 acres that
he purchased in 1914. This brings me to today's
recording. I'm going to be speaking with Pam
Coles, former name Hitchcock. Now the Hitchcock
family migrated to the Shoalhaven in 1850 from
Devon, England. The patriarch Andrew Hitchcock
was born in 1806. He was a farmer and with his
wife Anne Mullet settled in Boria where he died
in 1888 and his wife passed a decade later. Now
together they had six children. Their son John
was 12 when they migrated here and in 1864 he
married Maria Eisen at Saltwater Creek. He died
in Bometary in 1929. They had nine children.
Now the third eldest was Henry born in Budjong
in 1868 and he began leasing land in the Mullers
Lane area. In the early 20th century, he married
Annabella Emery at the Uniting Church in Berry
in 1897. In my hands, I hold the original land
title purchased by Henry and it's dated 1912.
I'm going to read it to you. Henry Hitchcock
of Jasper's Brush. New. Berry Farmer. Inducement
of transfer from Alexander Hay and David William
Roxburgh, number 686838, is now the proprietor
of that piece of land situated in the municipality
of Bury, parish of Coolingadda, county of Camden.
151 acres, lot 235, plan number 6131 and part
of 1000 acres. which is portion 12 of parish.
Dated the 15th of November 1912, the land originally
granted to Alexander Berry by Crown Grant on
the 9th of October 1838. The land title left
the family hands in November 1969. Now Henry
and Annabel had two children, Annie, born in
1897, and a son, Harvey John. born 1899. The
children grew up on the farm in Jaspersbrush.
Harvey married Sylvia Jean Griffiths in the Methodist
Church, Berry, in 1932. Sylvia was born in 1909
at Central Tilber, New South Wales. They had
two girls, Pamela Jean, born in 1936, and Norma
Joan, born in 1939. Now, Pamela married Arthur
Barry Coles in 1956. She has four sons, David,
born in 1958, Anthony, born in 1960, Scott, born
in 1962, and Grant, born in 1963. And today it
gives me great pleasure to engage Pamela to discuss
life in Mullers Lane. She also references some
photos during our discussion. Well, she's getting
old and I sort of showed her some photos and
I think that helped. So what I'm going to do
is those photos she references will be available
when I put the podcast up on my website. You
can flick through. I'll leave it at that. I hope
you enjoy the recording. You'll hear more of
me during it. Pam, what year were you born and
where were you born? I was born in 1936. And
then when mum and dad's first child died at birth,
she was strangled I believe with a cord around
her throat. Yes. Apparently they didn't realise
the time to save her. The umbilical cord. So
she wanted to be sure your mother and so you
went to hospital, is that correct? Yes. So what
are your parents' full names? Harvey John Hitchcock
and mum's was Sylvia Jean Griffiths. Do you know
your grandparents? Yes. Dad's father was Henry,
my grandmother. Annabella, Mary Jane, Eleanor,
Charlotte, Emory. Emory. Where did you go after
Gordon? Were your parents living down here? Yes,
they're on the farm at Jasper's Brush. I've got
no idea if we had a address. Post Office box
for mail. Post Office 124? Mm, Berry. Berry?
Can you remember the Post Office box? Where was
it? Where the Thai restaurant is now, that was
the post office. And they also had the phone
connect up there, but that board is in the museum.
Okay, so the original switchboard. You had a
land title here that you're holding. Is this
the family's land title of the land? Yes. From
Henry Hitchcock of Jasper's Brush. What do you
know of this land title? So you've got... 151
acres. I think that's the railway, Broughton
Creek. And do you know what year he purchased
the land yourself? They leased it until I think
it was 1908. Was Henry your grandfather? Yes.
So Henry and his? Annabella Mary -Jane Eleanor
Sharles. That is a long name. And I never could
find out. If she was named after anybody, like
a favourite aunt or anything like that, names
have never prompt up anywhere else, so I don't
know how they found all that. Now I want to slow
it down and I want you to tell me exactly, let's
go through each name. So Henry's wife, her full
name. Annabella, Mary, Jane, Eleanor, Charlotte.
Do you remember your grandparents? Yes. Do you
know how many cows they were milking? How did
it all look? Only about 50 or something like
that. Nothing like they milked down. I mean,
they've got to milk more now to make a living.
And that kept two families because after my grandparents
left there, they went to Rockdale. Half the milk
check went to them. When did they go to Rockdale?
I'm not sure. It was after mum and dad were married.
Yes. But he did farm there? Oh, yes, yes. Do
you remember, as a young person, your parents...
to have their own house there, did they? No,
there was only one house that was grandpa's house.
No, I would think that they probably went to
Rockdump fairly close to when they got married.
How big was the farm? 152 or 3 acres. What were
you doing as a young person? Well, I went to
school at Jaspers Brush and firstly we walked
across our prime. and then across Hallsizers,
who was next door, and we'd go up their lane
with the three Hallsizer girls to go to Jesper's
Brush School. Okay, so you're in the first part
of Mullers Lane, are you? What we know as Mullers
Lane today. The Hitchcocks were there first,
apparently, you're telling me. They were there
before Mullers, yes, definitely. I mean, we went
there to lease it. Dad was three, I think, so
that would have been about 1982. And the first
people I can think of in... mullers, lay mullers,
were Skinners. And I can remember them. And George,
I think it was, had a milk run in Berry. What
about his wife and kids? Do you know the kids?
No, I can't remember anything of them really.
Now the Skinners, all the local residents could
only remember Don Skinner. The patriarch, George
Thomas Skinner, was born in 1879 and he was one
of seven children in Kent, England. He died in
Belaungara. in 1943. He married Frances Jane
Snelling known as Sissy back in England. She
was born in 1898 and she died in Bury here in
1950. Now all their children were born in Kent,
England before they migrated. They had three
boys. Donald Hadley Skinner was the youngest
and he was born in 1914. Donald passed in 1984.
The oldest brother George Thomas was born in
1905 and he passed in Bury in 1974. The middle
brother Kenneth Gilbert was born in 1908 and
he passed away in 1986. I've found some press
articles to substantiate the existence of the
three sons and the father. In 1934 at the Bury
show Donald Skinner placed first in the draft
horse. and A Anderson placed second. Now the
Anderson Lane is also in Jasper's Brush. It is
actually the last lane going north that falls
in the Jasper's Brush category. Kenneth Gilbert
worked at Jasper's Brush Milk Depot and took
someone to court for slander and he was paid
10 pounds in January 1935. He later moved to
Nauru Milk Co -op in 38. When Dom was a young
boy, he'd attend the annual picnic day at Jasper's
Brush. He came second in a boy's race. He also
held his 21st birthday in 1935, perhaps at the
School of Arts. Don Skinner married Vera Barham,
who lived up the road, in 1942. His brother George
was the best man. His parents, G .T. Skinner,
were listed as living at Bella Wangara. Do you
remember the carrier coming with the milk cans?
No, from our farm we had a truck and we'd take
it into the Berry Co -op or Mr Muller would take
it the next day. I can't remember their roster
but that's how it came in here to the Berry Co
-op. Can you think of the families that lived
on Muller's Lane when you were there growing
up? Nobody, not on the lane. Not on the lane
from the highway to the railway line, no. They're
all later. much later. So you were in the lands
though, weren't you, that they now around Mullers
somehow? Yes. Were there other farms in the lands
around that area? Only the skinners. Later on
there were three blocks taken off our land. One
was burnt down at one stage. I don't know because
I haven't been there when it was rebuilt. The
roadway to go into our place, it was just on
the left. Then along the railway line, I think
there are two houses built there, but not in
our time. So how long were you on the land for?
Well, I left when I was married and that was
in 56. Mum left after Dad died. So you've got
some photos here. Might be easier. Describe...
when it might have been taken and relating to
where you were at the time or who that is. That's
dad and that was taken in Sydney but I don't
know for why. It was in Hyde Park it says. Yes,
that's a studio photo. Yes. And your father's
name again was? Harvey John. Harvey John. How
many cows was Harvey running there? Oh, I think
there's only 30 of them. Yes, which is typical,
a little self -sustained family farm. Two families.
Two families. Who are the two families? Dad's
mother and father when they went to Sydney. Okay.
Do you know how much the cheque was worth? Not
much. No. What type of cows and did he show them
or? Oh no, they're just milking cows. That's
mum and dad's wedding, if that's interesting.
There's something written on the back of that.
Leaving on our honeymoon in Brighton -le -Sands,
1932. No, they were married in the Methodist
church down here. Barry? Dad was 32 and mum was
23. And they were married in 32, I think that's
right. And do you know anybody else in these
photos? There's a best man. Keep your glasses
on. I think his name was Arthur Peck, but I wouldn't
be sure on that. And that's Aunty Mary, mum's
sister. A -R -I -E. And the man you don't know.
I think it's Arthur Peck, but I couldn't be positive.
Is Arthur Peck around here? Was he from here?
No. He might have been then, but he moved up
past Wollongong. OK. So you have another sibling
or... Sister. That is alive? Yes. And what's
her name? Norma June. And what year was she born?
I was born 36. She was born in 38, I think. Did
you both help on the farm? Oh, at times we did.
I mean, later on, when Dad got sick, I did a
lot, because Dad wasn't able to get up and help
Mum milk, and Mum would get me up. So you carried
the load a bit. How old were you when your Dad
got sick? I think it was in high school, so I'd
been a teenager. I'm not, I couldn't be sure.
That is Annabella Mary -Jane Eleanor Charlotte.
I'm so glad you found a photo of her. Yes, I
didn't have any trouble with that. It must have
been cruel for her to have to write her name
in full at times. She's your grandmother? Yes.
Was she from the area? Burial. And where's that?
South of Naira and in a bit. It's one of the
first. settlements out that way. Yes, it looked
like a few came from there. So Jaspersbush Primary,
we'll just slow it down a bit. Yeah, that's alright.
Now I've seen photos of you. What year did you
start there, can you remember? I'd have probably
been about five. Yes. So that would have been
about, I was born in 36, that would have been
about 41. Okay, so 41. Can you remember who was
in your class? Raymond Strong. He was one. What
was he like as a kid? He was alright. They were
the hall size of girls because school was one
room. Everybody was in there, the one teacher.
Three hall size of girls. Cross the paddock because
I'd walk over to them and walk up their lane.
How do you spell their name, do you know? H -O
-L -Z -H -A -U -S -E -R. I'm a rotten speller
but some things I do remember. Where were they
living? Down O 'Keeffe's Lane. We always had
shoes. took our lunch. If you've been there,
there's a driveway up and there's big old beautiful
trees. And we used to get all the leaves and
that off the trees and we'd make our house. You
know what I mean? Just using those as the boundaries.
So we'd have to go down to our house and sit
in our kitchen or our dining room to eat our
lunch. That was your imagination. Yes. Do you
ever recall the ferry or the wharf in O 'Keeffe's
Lane in your time? No. There were no houses then
from the railway line up to the highway. You're
talking about just the general line? Yes. Until
you get to Jasper's Brush? Yes, there was a station
there and the train used to stop. Do you ever
remember getting the train from Jasper's Brush?
No, I don't think we, no, no, I'm sure we didn't.
Do you ever remember making butter? Oh yes, yes.
Why don't you tell me a bit about that and what
would happen? Well, we'd have a glass container
like this and you'd put cream in there, so you
had the turn which turned the paddles underneath.
So what are we talking about? We've got a cream
separator, have you? That would be part of the
dairy. Yeah. You couldn't take too much off it
because they'd lower the... Milk fat. Yes. But
we'd just put it in all this thing and... turn
the handle until it's set, then we put it in
something, then we pat it into something, squirt,
just keep it in the oz chest. Was it just for
family use? Yes. Because you had a small dairy
herd, it was self -sufficient. You had milk,
you drank the milk? Yes. Every afternoon after
school, my sister and I would go down to the
dairy, we always had a mug down there, we'd squirt
the hot milk into the mug and drink it. Turns
my stomach to think about it. But it didn't at
the time, did it? No, no. So you'd squirt the
teat, you'd get the teat and squirt it in yourself?
Yes, yeah. Did you have to do it your sister's
or did she do it herself? She did it herself.
As I can remember it. What's it looking like,
the milk factory at Berry? If you went across
the paddocks, there was skinners or hitchcocks,
whatever, crouches, there was any of them. They
came from Wharf Road. along the river and buffered
into our place. We went right to the river, Broughton
Creek, and Mullers went from over the railway
line, our boundary was the railway line, Mullers
went over it but they didn't go to the creek.
So you may have got some floods there? Oh yes.
The water came up to just below the dairy. The
house was here, the dairy, then there was a downslope
and that's where the flood would always stop.
So the cows, they had some higher ground or did
they? Yes, cows are very, they can sense a flood
before anybody else could and they would always
come up. If we knew there was a flood coming
and Dad wasn't too bad at it either, he'd go
down and open all the slip rails so they could
come right up to that bottom of the barrels or
even up into that. With the dairy itself? We
had bales. Oh, bales. You didn't have any walk
-throughs? Oh, that's way ahead of your time.
Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. No, they'd
just walk into a set of bales. That's it, yeah.
And we'd put the cups on the cows and they'd
go out the door at their head. So how many bales?
Four, maybe five. Did you have to tie their legs
or one leg? One leg. If the cow was a bit...
Jumpy, yes, some of them you didn't, you didn't
have to, they'd just stand there. And you'd be
on a stool? Yes, to hook them. Into a bucket?
Yes. A cooling system? Yes, very old -fashioned
to now. We put it into a vat. Yes. From the bales
into a vat and then it went from there into the
cans. Yeah, sort of cool over something and go
into a can. Yes, we had a bit of a cooler. Then
we'd put the cans on the truck and drive them
in. into, bury you over to mother's, whatever.
So how many cans are you doing twice a day? Oh,
this is a wild guess. Maybe four, maybe five.
Did you have them coloured or your name on it?
No, often you had, I can't remember that ours
did, but often some of them would have a plaque
on it and it would have Hitchcock or Muller or
Skinner or something like that. I don't think
ours did. Or some of them would paint the handle
on the lid too. But not you? I don't remember
it, no. Well, how do they get fed after they
milk? Just go into a paddock. Okay, no feed stalls?
No. No silo? No. We'd cut it and make bales out
of it and store the bales or make hay sheds and
nuggets and faloes. We're not talking tractors,
are we? We had a tractor in the end. I can't
do it in the end, but it was all in my hand when
I was a kid. So you're the tallest girl there
on the... Here down here. That's is that you
on top of the stack? Yeah, that'd be me, that'd
be Norma and that'd be mum and the same up here.
That's dad there. That's mum, me and Norma. These
are quite high mounds. I don't know if I've ever
seen any that high. Well, all we did was with
a fork build them up. You had to make sure it
was dry. Have you got the slide on it or what?
I think the bales probably came later. Oh, okay.
So how are you? Doring this. Just like that.
I think sometimes they'd put a tarpaulin over
them if it got very blowy or something like that.
Isn't that great? I don't know, I haven't seen
this so much. I've seen it at Camden Park where
they're in the middle of the paddock and they're
actually might be chaff cutting in the paddock.
No, I know we used to bring it up on the slide
and just throw it up to make, yes. Yeah, like
just whoop it up. They probably use the ladder
to do the top bits. So this is your makeshift
silo, really, isn't it? It's that open air silo.
Open air one, yes. I love that. They are really
important. So this is you, is it, here? Yeah,
I'm sitting. For a change. Yes. We were rather
dressed for something. Look at the shoes and
stuff. You might have been going to church. Probably
a thought, yes. So what do you call these? Haystacks?
Haystacks. I'm just putting the stuff here that
I'm making notes of to take away and scan for
you. So here you dress quite well. Did your mum
make your clothes? She did a lot. And there's
you on a horse? There's Darby and something and
I cannot think of the other. So what's in the
background here? What's that? That's part of
the house. It had a laundry unit I can remember
one stage but in the end I can't really remember
it but dad built a shed there and he grew orchids.
hot house perhaps later and there's a dog here
oh yes there'd always be a dog around you don't
know that little dog no you can only see it's
backside so this is a draft horse yes you're
going we had two we were just going for a ride
there so but you're going for a ride with no
equipment so come off it isn't it great i mean
how old are you there five six Yes, I would have
been. Noah was younger, a couple of years younger.
What church did you go to? Is it the Methodist
Church? Yes, it was Methodist United now. In
Berry? Yep. So you did most of your things in
Berry, did you? Oh, yes. I wonder how they met,
your parents? In church. Because mum was 16 when
she came to Berry, and they met at church functions.
Church books, he made their fair days in. You
see, there wasn't much of a... Entertainment
outside churches then? No. Then we got a picture
theatre, but this is jumping ahead. And Mr Muller
would sometimes bring us in. So tell me about
where your mum was living. When they came to
Berry, her father was a butcher. Your grandfather
had a butcher shop? Yes, he had two in Berry.
And where were they located? One with the house
near it was in Queen Street, where Atkins has
lived in the house. Somewhere around the bottom
end of IGA. Yes. And then they had a shop there,
but then they also had a butcher shop up this
next block up. There's the hotel on the corner,
two -story house and then there's a shop. There's
a couple of shops. Yes, there's a butcher shop
there and they're in there. I've got a photo.
Was he slaughtering them there? No. I think the
slaughter, or it was, I don't know, in that time
out along Beach Road. In the main street there
was a milk bar which was then owned by Mr and
Mrs Bellis. And we'd go in there every Sunday
on the way half and jerk and get two shillings
worth of fruit in a bag about this height. So
they had a, are you saying a fruit shop? Yeah,
a milk bar and fruit, veggies. I didn't hear
the name. Bellis, B -E -L -A -S. Did you go to
Sunday school then? Yeah. All the time? Yeah.
Who was your person that taught? Marge Thompson
would have been one. I lived out of Broughton
Village. Do you remember a horse and cart? We
never had one, but I can remember a little bit
further out into Jesper's Brush there were two
ladies. Culligan, I think their names were. Always
dressed in black. While we were waiting for the
bus to go to Narrah High School, they'd come
trotting along. carrying this little case, which
held two pounds of butter. And they'd go down
to the factory, get their butter and walk home.
And they were older to you? Oh, yes. Okay, older
women, a bit grand, were they? No, they weren't
the grandy, biggish ladies, but they just had
their head down and off they went. And I think
their house went when they built the school of
arts there. The original milk factory was on
the corner of where files live. Station Lane.
Station Lane. When we were younger, you could
see some ruins of it. I don't know whether they'd
be there now. You go to the dances? Oh yes, there's
always somebody. And Mrs. Keefe used to boil
a copper outside for coffee and tea. This is
getting off just as preferable. That's alright.
Supper. Oh yeah. Had to take a plate for supper.
At the dance hall. Apparently you were all taught.
where the name Jasper's brush came from. And
you said to me, I think it was an Aboriginal
name. That's what I can remember it was. Any
more than that can you remember? No. Why did
that come to you as that? For some reason, I
just remembered it as that. Yeah. And at school,
one afternoon a week, Mr. Williams would take
the, he was a great man for woodwork, and he'd
take the bullies over to his shed. How we trusted
any of those kids with his good equipment I would
not know. And Mrs Williams would come over to
the school room for the girls to teach sewing.
We had to do samples and that sort of thing.
What was she like? A lady. Needle work. Yes.
What about your sports days? Did you have picnics?
Yes, there was a pathway from where they walked
from the house to the school. We'd play rounders
on that. And at the side of the school there
were two... wooden posts with a bar across it
and we'd do flips over that and all that sort
of thing. I mean sport then wasn't like it is
now. Now Pam, don't sell yourself too short because
I've done a bit of research on some of these
picnic days. Now I know that young Don Skinner
was pretty good in 1935. He came second in his
boys race at Jasper's Brush Picnic Day. And Mrs
Skinner wasn't bad either. Mrs D Skinner, Dawn's
wife, she placed second in 1944's picnic day
in the married women's race because your mother
placed first. You may not recall this but in
the 44 picnic race you won yours Pam, your eight
to ten year old girls race and you also won the
potato race. And your sister came second in her
race, six to eight year olds I think it was.
But one of the big highlights was Mrs. Anderson,
Mrs. E Anderson in 1935. She won the married
women's race that year. There was a daughter
of hers came second in the girls race. But here's
the big highlight. She placed first in the broom
throwing competition. She threw at 58 feet. 10
inches. So I'm figuring she might have thrown
that like a javelin. Not quite sure. She's not
around to tell the tale, but that's a bit of
the Andersons history for you. Before my time
even, there had been a tennis court there on
the side, but then it was turned into a horse
thing because a lot of kids rode their horses
to school. Went into a paddock virtually. We
used to swim down on the creek. Jaspers Creek.
There was a path from the school down the bank
to that and there was just a plank because every
time there was a flood the plank went, we had
to find it and bring it back. Kids going down
a cliff slope, they'd use that to come to school.
What were you thinking at school? Were you a
happy kid? Yes, I enjoyed school. I mean we were
such a small school, everybody knew everybody.
Somebody forgot their lunch, somebody would give
it to them, and you know, all that sort of thing.
Was that your world? Yes, it was really. And
we did have, I think it was at Christmas time,
we'd have a book -giving thing, and that was
in the School of Arts. So you'd get a book, would
you? Everyone? Yes, I think so, yeah. We did
have, you know how they have libraries now. We'd
have a big box about this, this and this. It'd
come every so often full of books. And you could
keep it for so long, read them all or some of
them or whatever, and then it'd go to another
school. So that might have been a Department
of Education thing. I would think so. I would
think so. Because you probably didn't have a
library. No. Didn't know what they were. What
do you miss about the old ways, you know, the
old town? Oh, yes. It's so much bigger. Now,
in my day, the main street was the main. I think
both pubs were there, and there was a... We used
to live where the day nut ban is. That was our
house, too. Did you lease that, or did you own
that house? Barry owned it. And then there was...
That's your husband. Yes. We haven't got to him
yet. I will. No, I think we just took it for
granted. Where the BP service station is, and
on this side, there were vacant blocks. and we'd
have a circus would come every year, because
that was a big excitement to go to the circus.
And there was a big field there almost, was there
land, vacant land? Yes, there were big blocks.
Well Lily, you see, this block's the same. I
don't think it'd be any bigger than this. All
this side are the biggest, they're part of the
old subdivision. Yes. And this is, all these
here are big blocks, because you go to Huntingdale.
Yes. That's where you are, isn't it? I mean,
your lane, yes. So where did you meet your husband?
You went to high school. What were you thinking?
What were you learning at high school? And did
you want to keep working? Or what was the norm?
I was just going to say, in those days, girls
either became nurses or school teachers or worked
in a shop. A lot of them just got a job in the
bank, or dad got the job in the bank for me.
I mean, there's no thought of going to university
or anything like that. And what bank were you
working in? Commercial banking company, Sydney
Limit. And we had to say the whole bank lot every
time because there was a commercial bank of Australia.
Don't get them mixed up. Where was that located?
Where it still is now, but it's been rebuilt.
It used to be like the, this was in Nauru, sorry.
In Nauru you worked? Yes. On the corner of Keighorn
and Junction Street. Did you meet your husband,
and what did he do? He came as a painter, and
he came out to paint something at home. That's
what happened. You started dating, did you? Yes,
yeah. What was his name? Arthur Barry Coles,
what he was called, Barry, because his father
was Arthur. This is getting a bit away. He had
heart bypass surgery twice, and he'd come out
of the, I'd spoken to the surgeon as he came
out, and then I went in, and they were cooking.
and calling him Arthur, only because he didn't
react to it. And I said to the doctor, I said,
look, he doesn't react to Arthur because he's
always become Barry. He said Barry and it was
like that. When were you married? Where? When
and where? 5th of May, 56 down here. And have
you had children? Four children, four boys. So
thinking of your grandfather, did he come out
from where? Hitchcock grandfather? He came from
England. OK, so he came from England to? Probably
Burrier. Burrier? Your dad got crook though,
didn't he? Yes, I can't remember just when, how
old he was. But he had emphysema. He smoked?
He smoked all his life. Well in those days it
was encouraged. Did he ever have to go to war
or anything? No, he was on the farm. Now you've
got a photograph here of? Yeah, that's all of
us. We were all in the band. We were in Berry
to start with. Berry didn't want him anymore
because they used to have a band contest every
year. It was between Kiama, Berry, Milton and
Bega. Every year we went to one of those places.
Anyhow, they reckon Dad pushed them too hard
to practice because it was a competition. So
we left and we went to Kiama, but I can't remember.
No, this is Kiama. He took over them for quite
a while. How did you learn your instruments and
how often would you practice? Berry, we practiced
every Monday. It's quite a good band down there,
but it's not a brass band, it's more a jazz band.
They are good, and we just come in by car. Then
when we went to Kaima, I think it might have
still been Monday, and we'd have to drive up
to there. And what would you be playing for?
Would you play at concerts or...? No, if there
was a march, like, take Anzac March, we'd do
the, when we were with Kaima, or when we were
in Bury, we'd do the Bury one, but when we went
to Kaima, we did... Kiama, Jambiru, Albion Park
and I think they were all the Sunday before because
so many went to the big march in Sydney and we
went to it twice. First time we started at the
Cenotaph and that was all right. Second time
we started it down at the Quay and we had to
march up Macquarie Street playing our instruments
and I think we nearly all died the next day.
And locally you'd play, is it just for Anzac
Day? Oh no, any march that was on. Sometimes
we'd play in the street in front of Waddells.
But anything was on, we always played. And what
instrument are you playing? Trombone. Your sister?
Corner. Mum's playing a flugelhorn and Dad plays
a quarter. Dad was playing a quarter. What did
you think of the instrument? Did you handle it
well? Oh, I just like music. And when we were
at Berry, because we were much younger, while
they were in practicing we'd often sleep in the
car just outside. Or later on, I loved the kettle
drum there too. But we used to go inside once
we were old enough to blew something. Where was
the practice held? In the front room of the Agricultural
Hall, corner of the show ground, across from
the courthouse. It must have been lovely to play
with the family. Yes, it was. But in those days,
that's what happened. I've still got one of Dad's
batons, and Norma got the other one. I've still
got his cornet in there too. So he would conduct.
Where did he learn his music? By ear, I think.
Most of you would have learnt by ear. Trombone's
harder. Is that what you're playing? Yes. Well,
of course it is. You're playing it. Don't be
silly. Well, a cornet or any of those others
have got three fingers on the top and you press
them in. You've got a bit of movement going.
Yes, but you've got to get that movement spot
on or you're out of tune. Yes. So you've got
to have a pretty good ear. Pretty good. So you're
pretty good. No, I wouldn't say that. Oh well,
you had a go. Yes. Was your father pleased with
you and your mum? Or they scold you? No. I wasn't
the favourite out of the two. Norman was mum's
favourite and I think dad was mine. Everybody
told me that, so I don't see. C, F, G, D, I think,
and I can't remember. I have to be one of the
base ones. And there's a photo here. That's grandpa
Hitchcock and grandma, the old bat. That's auntie
Lil, dad's sister, and that's dad. That auntie
Lil's holding her daughter, Heather. and Dad's
holding me. 37, well, I was only one. What did
you think of your grandfather? Oh, he was gorgeous.
Yeah? Yeah. We found out later, because Auntie
Leah lived in Sydney, her grandma and grandpa
had come down in August for tax, and she'd go
back and say how good we were to the girls up
there. She'd come down here and tell us, oh,
the girls wouldn't do that. And, you know, she
played the thing again. She was playing everyone
off. Annie Lillian Hitchcock married George Strong
on April 1929. I don't know anything of his history
at all. I know he was a gardener. That's at the
original church down here. The Uniting Church.
Now this is a very good photograph because you've
got the slide. Yeah that is a slide and the dog's
there and one horse. So where's this? Down at
the farm. I've got a feeling there was a laundry
in that shed. But that was the one that went
down and then Dad built it again to keep all
his orchids. I can remember a snake in the toilet.
He used to have to take the can and empty it
somewhere. I went into it one day and I came
running back out to Mum. Mum, there's a snake
in the toilet. Oh, don't be stupid. But it had
a cement floor. So it was square. And just across
the corner, a bit of the cement was broken. That's
what I could see, the snake. It was hiding under
that. Yeah, it slid under there, and it was just...
I suppose there's only about that much of him.
Now there was a tiger snake up down. The girl
got bitten and died. A keefsling. And I know
when Barry and I were going out, we had to go
over the railway line. So Barry would get out.
He'd open the gate. and I'd drive up onto the
line so he could look to make sure there's no
snakes there. He'd drive off and then he'd go
back and shut the gates. He had a phobia about
this tiger snake. We used to say with a flood
you could row a boat from the station here right
to Bombardier because you couldn't see any fences.
They were big floods and just out of that lift
up down here we had a trough and you couldn't
see that. They were big floods. We had a shrub.
just above the house. We used to call them monkey
vines, but that wouldn't be their technical name.
And we could go up there and swing on them and
that sort of thing. Then above that, before the
row went on, there were two, you know, locust
fruit? Yes. Two beautiful trees up there, and
we loved those. There's one on the footpath where
those new units are before you get to the church.
I have pinched a few, but they don't taste the
same. Did you grow any of your own fruit? We
had a big orchard, then we had a food one at
the house, but down on the paddock, Dad would
always buy the climbing ones, like pumpkins,
watermelons, rockmelons. Zucchinis. No, didn't
hear of those, those, those. The orchard was
on its own. It had beautiful apple trees in it,
lemon trees. We have oranges, I think. I know
we have a great big apple tree bowed down like
this. beautiful apples on them. We did have some
apricots. We had a grapevine at the house. Then
at the house you'd get smaller veggies. Like
my money had to walk out the door and let it
be there. But then down the paddock, there'd
be pumpkins and watermelons and rockmelons and
cucumbers. I'd say self -efficient as far as
veggies were concerned. And did you do any of
that or was it all Dad? No, Dad did all the planting.
Beans, we used to go out and to other property
and pick beans and peas. One I can remember was
up Tindal's Lane, and that was peas there. And
some up Schofield's Lane, but I can't remember
who owned the property. But all neighbours did
that. They'd just go around and help everybody
pick what they had, sort of thing. Did you make
bales? Because we didn't have any equipment like
that. They were in the paddocks, weren't they?
Yes, yeah. Haystacks? pull out when we needed
it, yes. But as I said, they had to be dry when
they stacked. How long did it last? Because you've
got to keep it airtight usually. It was all eaten.
I mean, there was two in one of those photos,
wasn't it? Two together and one down at the house.
There used to be, at the house, two big coals
in the ground and I always thought they were
dams or wells. They bury silage. No, I don't
think so. They had no water in them and no grass
was growing down the side of them. No, probably
that deep. One was right outside the front house
fence gate and one on the side. But you don't
know what they were used for. No. Nobody could
ever tell me that, so I don't know. Now those
wells were shaped like a cylinder. So they were
round on top and went down about eight feet.
Chatting to Terry Farrell, He thinks that they
may be wells built by convicts that were lined
with sandstone. There is one that exists just
off Bowlong Road. So that's a possibility. Pam's
probably on the money talking about wells. That's
all we know at this point. Did you ever grow
corn? Yes. Did you have a chaff cutter? Oh yes
we did, yes we did. Yes. We used to put the things
down and turn this thing. And it would take the
corn off the cob. Oh yeah, so it was manual.
You did it manually. Seems like he might have
fed it as he needed to. I would say so. Because
the corn wasn't stored anywhere, was it? There
was a big shed just across from the house. There
maybe in a loft or something. No, there wasn't.
But I can visual it loose on the floor. Okay,
yes. And I think we go to the chooks because
we had a big chook run down from that too. Were
they safely... locked up? Yes, they were all
fenced in. What about pigs? For a little while
we did have a few pigs and they were below the
orchard in a shed down there. Yes. But I don't
know what we did with them. We didn't have a
lot of them. Well they've eaten a bit of that
rotten fruit too, a bit I imagine, fell on the
ground. How big was the orchard, acre? Two acres?
No, it wouldn't have been that big. Oh, an acre,
possibly. Was it just easily accessible or did
it...? Oh, yes. Yes, it was all fenced. It wasn't
fenced and gated and it was next to the run part
of the bales. Scott, our third one, was driving
around here the other day. And you know the Presbyterian
Church is? Go that way, you're over a little
bridge and there's a little house there. That
was ours and he didn't know that because he wasn't
born then. It's on the market now. It's a two
bedroom, very small second bedroom for 1 .3.
I mean you must nearly die at the price of land
and housing. Yeah, absolutely. So how long were
you on the farm? Me? Yeah. Till I was married
and I was married at 20. 36 souls. 56. And you
left the farm. And you were working on the farm
a bit up to that point? Yes because I was at
the bank until I got pregnant then I left. So
you got maternity leave, did you? No, you just
leave. That's it. Oh, that's what they did then.
Where were you living then? We came and lived
with Barry's grandmother in Victoria Street.
And we had the closed -in veranda down the side.
Whenever it rained or mist came down through
it, because it wasn't lined or anything like
that. And then we eventually built the little
house, I was just saying, in Victoria Street.
Was your father active in the community, active
in the church? Yes, he was a choir master and
they went to different groups in the church.
Did you study for the ministry or do you go to
church today? Except for lately when I can't
drive. Does it feel more of a spiritual life
now as opposed to a Methodist life? I think a
Methodist life is stricter. I mean, Dad wouldn't
hear of us dancing. Oh, you weren't allowed to
dance? Oh, no. That was his rule. Only the one
at Christmas for school. We could go to that
one. Oh, no, we did dance, but you danced with
fathers or something like that. And I'm just
trying to remember what the music was. It was
just a band. The word Abernethy's come into mind,
but I wouldn't be sure about that. Three people
played. Little three -piece band. Something like
that, yes. Doing barn dances and foxtrot and
progressive barn. Progressive barn dance, yes.
But did you progress with people and dance with
different men? Yes, I think we did, yes. But
it was probably older men. I was just going to
say, yes, it was Dinnie or it was your father
or Mr Muller or yes. Oh yeah, not young boys.
No, you couldn't get close to anybody. How old
were you then? Did the intermediate certificate?
But I wasn't 15 until the April, because you
had to be 15 to leave school then. Now I went
into year four. To do that was a waste of time,
of course, because I wasn't going anywhere else.
But you got quite a good job at the bank then.
Yes, I enjoyed it. Yeah. And I've been treasurer
at a lot of things. When I was working, I got
a job with, or they asked me to go after Barry
to Ryan and Horne, or it was Elders Real Estate
then. changed into rain and hope. I did all that
book work. And then we had to learn how to do
it on a computer. Did you have to learn? Yes,
I had to learn it. And then we had a rent roll,
which started off with about 10 people. A mate
of Clive Redburn's, he sent this fellow down
to give us a rent roll on the computer. I could
do it quicker by hand than he could. It was a
complete staffer. And then we got on to some
other fellow, and he was brilliant. It didn't
matter what I asked him, he didn't even have
to think he'd be like that. He was brilliant.
I liked him very much. One chap that came down
when we were having trouble with it, I said,
what can we do with this? I said, this isn't
the help, but I can do it quicker by hand than
on a computer. And he said, just tell me when
there's a big truck coming in, I'll throw it
out in the road. I've never forgotten that. That's
all getting away from what you're on about anyway.
Now it's nice. So tell me about when your dad
got sick. We'll start there. So how was his health?
Did he always stay on the farm? Yes, he didn't
till he died. He was in hospital then. If he
was at home, he was in the room and we had a
big gas tank there and he'd always have the gas
tank holding it in his nose or something like
that. But you had to help milk because he was
sick. You've got a few books here. Oh yeah, that's
the one, I'll tell you. They're books of... Who's
this, sorry? Is this your father? Yes, they're
all dead, yeah. Of who's buried in the cemetery
up here. Oh, yeah. Tell me about how your husband
got sick. Smoking. It was in August, 40 years
ago. Yeah. Where were you at in your life when
he passed? Where were you living? We were here.
Yeah. Yes. So who owned this land? That was a
cattle sale yard there, next door, by Sue's.
And when she started to build we had mice and
everything because it was all old timber and
rock. So this is in Albert Street where Pam lives.
Now that subdivision went through in the early
70s. AJ Campbell's had the sale yards next door
to where Pam lives. There was also actually just
by the way another sale yard opposite the medical
centre in Barrie, owned by Hedley Johnson on
Prince Albert Road there. By the way, an old
drover by the name of Stan Garrity also ended
up buying land there but before it was cleared
he used to keep his old horse in the sale yards
owned by Campbell's next door to Pam. And then
it was after that, the Christmas, there was a
Ross Henderson used to work in the real estate
down here. And he came to see me, he said, Pam,
would you like a few days work? I said, yes,
thank you. Because we had nothing, and I was
booked in to do the HSC, which I'd done for a
few years. Supervising the exams. Is that what
you were doing? At that time, yes. And I nearly
fell over. I went in through a maths paper. Here's
all the kids arriving with a calculator. I looked
at him and he said, yes, it's all right. And
the chap that was organising it then, he gave
me more on it. And he said, yes, I would. And
I went then in the next June, end of June, they
asked me to stay on. I was there for about 20
years. Loved it. Where was the mayor's chambers
when you were here? Down. in part of the show
ground in Alexander Street, although it was a
council chamber. You remember that? Yes. I don't
remember it being built, but I can remember it.
You remember visiting there or having to go there?
No. I'm actually still on committee for the show.
You're still on the Berry Show Committee? About
60 years. I hope they're giving you an award.
They gave me a thing for 50 years. I had no idea.
Or do I? The only thing I could put it down to,
we were living in the day nut van. Matty Robinson
had a car smashed repair, and next to that was
Higgins', and they had the South Coast Register.
And Mo Higgins was the secretary of the show,
and I used to go and help him in there. And I
knew that Grant wasn't at school then, because
he'd come up with me, and he'd... Oh, we used
to have member's cards and he'd thread those
through or do something, you know, or he'd take
something to play. That's the only recommendation.
I went through things and I couldn't see my name
in anything as to when I started there. But I
had that in mind, so I worked it out from there.
So I enjoyed it. Yeah, tell me, that's a long
time, because you would have seen a bit of change
in the show. I agree if it's all computerised
too now. So what were you doing? Well, in the
end, I wrote all the checks for it and I had
to work out what everybody... earned money, now
they hand it out in cash, and they'd come in
for their money and I'd have it all ready. The
winners? Wasn't worth picking up half the time.
I know, two dollars for a hat class. Anything
I've worked in I've really enjoyed. Yes, well
it would have had all the cakes, all the painting,
all that stuff. And I've helped in all of those
and the rest of it. How's the participation,
is it the same or all? Oh yes, we thought when
we first had computers in we thought the oldies
aren't going to set this and we lost some people
because of it. The thing that happened with that,
they brought it in without a trial because a
lot of people, and I'll be one of them, years
ago, didn't trust them. How can that box in there
add up all of this, you know? That sort of thing.
But we all learnt. Well, it's a big shift. It's
like the rent rolls when I was talking about,
I could do it in my head in no time. Get the
damn computer on it. Not now. I soon learnt how
to do it. You've done a lot of service for the
community. So you've been on the Berry show for
a long time. Is that your, and you're a member
of Senuit? Yeah, the club, yes. Yeah, here's
a good club. Tell me about back on the farm.
When did your farm cease? After Dad died, Mum
was there and she leased it to, and they later
bought it, Longworth I think their name was,
from up the mountain there. Then she went and
lived in Sydney with her brother for a while,
in Pimble, and she got a job up there and then
she eventually came back to Nair and bought a
house in Station Street, which was called that
because I have read this. There was to be a railway
station there. When did you get tractors in?
Did you ever get a tractor? Yes. Grandparents
bought that, I remember that. Ferguson. Ferguson.
A little Ferguson to what you see now. What colour
was it? Grey. So you're born and bred here? Yep.
Absolutely. Went to school here. Married here.
Be buried here because I've got my plot up there.
Where's your plot? Next to Barry's in the original...
What cemetery? Barry. Sorry. That's alright.
Yeah, the newer bit. It's very nice. I asked
somebody the other day and it's about a thousand
dollars to be put in that. Yeah. I paid 93 for
mine. Yes. What about your kids? Are you a grandmother?
And a great -grandmother. You're a great -grandmother?
How many grandchildren? I have four kids. Seven.
What about the greats? Two. Do you feel that
adds to your life or is it? It does, another
interest. Yes. Do you have a love for them? Yes,
a couple I could ring their necks. Because the
ones that stay connected, this annoys me. She's
in Denmark, she's home on the 11th of this month
and she's been away about five months I think.
But their mother's Danish, so their grandma's
still alive over there and there's an auntie
there. and they go over there, but then they
travel around all over the place. Mya's the elder,
she's the first born one. It was her sister I
think, she was in Ireland just lately. She's
home now. But they've always been travellers.
Well I've done a lot of it too, but they work,
come back, get a job, save the money and off
they go. That was basically what I did. Though
I didn't do as much of it when I was working.
So you and your husband traveled? No, it was
after Barry Dodd because I never worked until
he died. And how did you travel? Did you go on
cruises? No, never been on. I went to Thailand,
not the last trip, the one before, and I did
a eight day on a small boat down the river. And
it was great. I loved it. But I have no wish
to go on these great monsters that have thousands
of people. I've been to Ireland and Scotland
and England. parts of Europe, Thailand. I went
for a trip there. I think that was my first trip.
But I've called in there a couple of times on
the way from others. Egypt, Turkey. I only go
to places that I have an inkling for. I don't
go because somebody else has been there, sort
of thing. I think about it before I get there.
Do you know an Alan Hitchcock? Yes. He's got
petroled something, hasn't he? I've heard of
him. I think they lived in... There's one I used
to know because I can remember when grandma came
down, would always have to go and see them. That
was the road, I think it's Maroo Road, you go
to the bowling club and there's a road going
down that follows where the original railway
station was. I don't even know the house but
I don't know. So dad had two daughters. And it
stopped with us. Yes, with you before you were
married. So it must have been interesting when
your grandfather was the original land title
holder, or least, and then secured land. He came
out from England. He must have... Was he sponsored
by anyone, do you know? No, I don't know. Do
your kids live nearby? Two live here. One lives
in Crozes Road, and that's Scott, the third one,
and the second one lives in Maroo. Just built
a new house. Well, the one in Bobbiderry, he's
in Adelaide. He's in the Navy. And Scott's just...
That brings us to the end of the recording. Thank
you Pam and others I approached throughout this
production of Pam's story. Sadly we finish Jasper's
brush for this podcast season two. The next episode
will actually be in Berry but on the lane called
Schofield's Lane. So we're nearly hitting the
township. Season two, of course, like season
one, has 10 episodes. So there's two episodes
to go. If you want to see Pam's photos in the
interim before they're archived later in the
year at the library, you can go to my website,
teresweeney .com .au. I'll have them up sometime
this week. Thanks for listening. Tell your friends.
A lot of people are saying, oh yes, I've listened
to Maroo, but I haven't had time for Jasper's
brush. Well, make some time and come and listen.
Thanks for your support. All the best.