WEBVTT

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Welcome everybody to Therese Makes History, a

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podcast about the dairy lanes from Bomaderry

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to Bury in the Shoalhaven region. I'm a social

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historian and I've been working with media and

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historical processes for 30 years. I've initiated

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this project at the end of 2024. when I started

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recording some of our dairying farmers, significant

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throughout the 20th century. They're pioneering

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ancestors who have had the lanes named after

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their families. My primary sponsor for Season

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2 is Ian Zanstra, a very experienced dairyman

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on the other side of the river from Pirie. Season

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2 would not be happening without Ian's support.

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I'm very grateful he stepped up. Thank you, Ian.

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Today finds us in Season 2, Episode 3. We're

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in what you know as Jasper's Brush Road. I'm

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going to call it Stations Lane because there

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was a railway station there for many years. I'm

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coming to the first area on the left as we enter

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Jasper's Brush Road where the Bahams have lived

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for three generations. The woman I'm interviewing

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today is the fifth generation farmer of the Bahams,

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who originated from Tomarong and migrated from

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England. The first generation of Bahams that

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migrated to Australia was a man by the name of

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James Baham. You'll find the name James is going

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to be said quite a bit. James Barham was born

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in 1797 in Woodridge, Suffolk, England. James

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Barham arrived in Australia in 1829. He migrated

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to Tomarong and bought his first piece of land

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in 1855. We're assuming he came out as part of

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the bounty immigration scheme. He married Charlotte

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Watson. In 1843, in Phillip Street, Sydney, at

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a church of England, Charlotte was actually born

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in 1804 in Northumberland, England. His parents,

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back in England, were Henry and Elizabeth Barham.

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James was a farmer, a labourer, and of course

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a timber cutter. He is Jenny Barham's great -great

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-grandfather. James had a few children, but his

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son, Henry Barham, was born in October 1843 at

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Brundy in the Shoalhaven. He married Sarah Crawford

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in 1881. At St John's, Church of England in Nowra.

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Sarah was born in 1847 in the county Armagh in

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Ireland. Excuse my pronunciation. Henry died

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in Tomarong in 1920 and Sarah passed in 1940.

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Henry had five children. Charlotte, born in 1882.

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James, Henry, born in 1884. Joseph, Herbert,

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born in 1885. All in Tomarong. and Walter Robert

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in 1887. He was born in Belfield in the Shoalhaven

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area. Final child was Edith Annie, who was born

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in Tomarong in 1889. The third generation is

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Grandfather Barham, who was the first to arrive

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at Jasper's Brush and set up farming. His name...

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His... He bought the land from the oak... brothers,

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O -K -E. There were two brothers that owned land

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there. James Henry Barham was born in March 1884

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in Tomarong. He married Iva Knapp. She was born

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on the 12th of May 1915 in Nowra. She is the

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daughter of James Knapp and Sarah Davis. They're

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a famous breeding, cow breeding family from Bolong.

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And I know the Knapps still live in the original

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house. I hope to get to them throughout this

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project. So Jenny, who I'm interviewing today,

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remembers her grandfather and grandmother. Donald

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Henry was a child of James and Ivy Barham. Donald

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Henry was born in September 1924 and he married

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Una Mary Eisen in 1946 in Bury at the Uniting

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Church. Donald passed in 2005 and is buried in

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the... Berry Cemetery. I'd like to present to

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you Jenny Pastor, who reflects on her family

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heritage and life growing up in Jasper's Brush.

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And I'm here with Jenny Pastor. Who did you marry?

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I married Robert or Bob Pastor, whose parents

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had the bakery in Berry, original Berry Bakery.

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They came down from Sydney, I don't know exactly

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when, but it was really the only one in Bury

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at that time. It used to be owned by Bamford's,

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I think, beforehand. So there is still a Bury

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Bakery, isn't it? That's it. They kind of built

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it up a fair bit. When the tourist trade started

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to come through, we met at high school. At Bomaderry?

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At Bomaderry High. So what year did you marry?

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In 1977. And were you married in a church? We

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were married in the Methodist Church or the Uniting

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Church in Bury. After that we moved to Wollongong

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because we were studying at Wollongong and then

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we moved up to the Northern Territory for 10

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years and then came back to Jasper's Brush when

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we bought my grandparents' house on the original

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farm. What were you studying? I studied... I

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did a Bachelor of Arts and then I did teaching.

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I did primary school teaching, actually, so I'm

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a teacher. And Bob was a PE teacher. Now retired,

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both of us. So you returned to Jasper's Brush.

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How long has your family been in the area? Can

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you go back to your memory? Well, I know that

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my father came here when he was four. And that

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was in, I think they came here in 1929. They

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came from, well, my grandfather bought the farm.

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He was James Henry Barham. And he was married

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to Ivy Cleta Knapp, who was one of the Knapps

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from Bolong. And they did, after they got married,

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they did rent a property, I think, in Bundiwala.

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And then Pirie, and then when the Jasper's Brush,

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when they had enough money and the Jasper's Brush

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farm came up, I think it was from Oaks or someone

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like that, and he bought the farm. How big was

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that farm, sorry? It was about, the farm there

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was about 80 acres, so it basically bordered

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Jasper's Brush Road, which was commonly known

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as Railway Road. in those days, the railway line,

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O 'Keefe's Lane and the highway. So it was the

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block there. The school, Jasper's Brush School,

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was a little block out of the corner of the farm.

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And that was owned by? The Department of Education.

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Whether it at one stage belonged to the farm,

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we never really knew, but probably originally

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the land grant, it was probably part of it. What

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year did they purchase? 1929. Was he share farming

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prior to that? I think my grandfather was leasing

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farms in other areas himself and then actually

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had enough money to buy this one. So this was

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his first purchase. Nap rings a bell because,

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well, they were successful cow breeders. Dad's

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mother was a nap. So Dad's mother was Ivy Cleeter

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Knapp from Bolong. And they came there, I do

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know that they came there, I think in about 1906,

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something like that, from down in Milton. I think

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Grandma was born in Milton and then they moved

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to, I think it's called Swanley, their farm there,

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which they owned a lot of land there at Bolong.

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And they were big cattle breeders in the AIS.

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Good Australian Illawarra shorthorns. That's

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where Dad always used to get a bull from his

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uncles. So we always had a bull that was from

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the knap farm and that's what Dad bred the herd

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from. And I guess Pop before him too. How big

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was the herd your grandfather had? Do you know?

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And how big did it get? Well, I think it was

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probably fairly small to start with. I'd say

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probably around 30. But I know Dad was milking

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around 40 to 50 when he was milking, which was

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quite a big herd in those days. I know that when

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Dad took over the farm, they put on an extra

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bale so they milked more cows and whatever, and

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they built a stall and so on. They built up the

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farm quite a bit, bit by bit, while they were

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there. Did they have a silo there? No silos.

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No, Dad wasn't a big believer in silos for some

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reason. He thought that they were very expensive.

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A lot of farms down the road did have silos.

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We had a pit, so they used the pit. When was

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the pit located on your property? There were

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two houses on our property. There was my grandfather's

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house and then there was the house that we grew

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up in, which was Mum and Dad's house, which was

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like a worker's cottage. and the pit was just

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on the top of the hill below that because it

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was pure shale. So their pit was in pure shale.

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They used to use it a lot, but then, you know,

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when I was only fairly young, Dad stopped using

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the pit too, because he was a grower. Dad was

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a real grower. So our farm always had corn, what

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we called saccharine, which I think it's a type

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of sorghum, really. He would go down every day

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when the corn was there, cut enough, him and

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Pop with the old cane cutter, cut enough, load

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it on the trolley, take it up there, and then

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they would chaff cutter it up and then feed it

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to the cattle every day in the stalls before

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they milked them. So it was a lot of work, but

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Dad tended to grow a lot of fresh crops, fill

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the pit if they had a lot of excess yeah it's

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an interesting approach and understandable he

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made a lot of hay too so obviously we had a lot

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of he had a lot of hay and big hay shed with

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lots of hay so they got that as well he was very

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into to growing and he was very into farming

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like dad dad actually loved the farm and he left

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He was quite bright at school, did really well

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at school, but really didn't want to go on. His

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brothers and sisters did their leaving certificates,

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which was unusual in those days. But Dad was

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apparently adamant that when he did his intermediate

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certificate at 15, he was out of school and he

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just wanted to work on the farm. And that's basically

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what he did. So this is your father? My father,

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yeah, which is Donald Henry Barham. And who did

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Donald marry? He married Una Ison, which was,

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I think you would have talked to some of the

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Isons because they also, they came to Jasper's

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Brush from Narra Hill when Mum was about 15 and

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lived just down the highway basically from our

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road. So we had a lot of family around when we

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were growing up. all of Mum's family as well

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as all Dad's family, basically, in close proximity.

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So we spent a lot of time with family, I guess.

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We had a very idyllic childhood, really. So what

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did that involve when you reflect on the family

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activities? I mean, I know it sounds like a silly

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question, but you had a lot of family around

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you. What were you doing? Cooking and playing?

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Playing with, well... The Isons, I think you've

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probably spoken to Karen, and they had like eight

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children. So there were a lot of children to

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play with and a lot of them were around my age.

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So we did a lot of playing. But then things like,

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you know, hot summer days, after milking, they'd

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come up and we had a creek on our farm and we

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had a great swimming hole. All the kids around

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the place used to come to our swimming hole.

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Summer was spent at the creek, basically. Who

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were some of those kids, their names? Well, there

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were, down our road, I can sort of go through

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who was in our road. There were the Joneses and

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they had, like, there was Barry and Barbara and

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then the Joneses still have their property there.

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Errolyn's still on the property and Barry's daughter

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Cindy is still there. So we're lucky. Look, our

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road still has a lot of original Jasper's Brush

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people in it, which is nice. Not many of the

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roads do anymore. So we had the Joneses and then

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we had the Farls. So we had, there was Betty

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and David. They were older than me. They were

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more in my older sister's age group. And then

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there was a railway house. where the Burgesses

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grew up. Mrs Burgess was the gatekeeper, closed

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and shut, opened and shut the gates whenever

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a train went through. So you remember her doing

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that? Oh, yeah, yeah. So what did she wear and

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what sort of person was she? I know she's still

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alive, but... Yeah, she was a lovely person.

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She was just always bright and bubbly and never

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complained about opening and shutting gates,

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which was a... Big job during the day, you know.

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She didn't do it at night. I don't know that

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any trains went at night then, but possibly.

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But it was all during the day. I think, no, the

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gates shut at night. That's right. And if you

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went out at night and you were down that end

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of the road, luckily we didn't have to go through,

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you had to open and shut the gates yourself.

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So was it literally a gate? It was literally

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gates, two gates, either side. Yeah, literally

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she had to open and shut, like big farm gates,

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basically. Did they have any other security,

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like any lights or anything? They wouldn't have

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had anything like that, really, would they? No,

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but there was a railway station right there.

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That's right, sorry. So it had a light, so there

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would have been a light there, yeah. So we actually,

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even as kids, like I'm talking about in the 60s,

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like 50s and 60s, we actually could get on and

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off the train there. Dad went to school, to now

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a high school. He caught the train. from the

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station at Jasper's Brush, all the kids did,

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went through to Bomaderry and then had to get

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a bus from Bomaderry over to the school. Was

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it always electric trains in your memory? No,

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no. Not diesel, all the diesel ones, obviously,

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yeah. Not as flash as they are now, the old chuggers.

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How many carriages? Oh, more than there are now.

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Probably about five, six in my memory, because

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freight still went by train then too. See, in

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the old days, like, Grandma, that's my grandmother,

00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:56.909
which was Ivy Cleeter Knapp originally, she used

00:16:56.909 --> 00:17:00.470
to grow a lot of produce too. So she supplemented

00:17:00.470 --> 00:17:03.950
the farm income, like Pop basically ran the farm,

00:17:04.049 --> 00:17:06.769
but she supplemented, she'd grow peas and...

00:17:07.309 --> 00:17:10.970
She'd, you know, do fruit and all that sort of

00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:14.069
thing and she used to... Dad talks about how

00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:17.750
every Christmas she'd breed ducks and chooks

00:17:17.750 --> 00:17:20.990
and every Christmas they'd have to dress the

00:17:20.990 --> 00:17:22.609
chooks, you know, pluck them, get them ready

00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:24.589
for the table and whatever and she'd send them

00:17:24.589 --> 00:17:27.869
up to the markets in Sydney on the train. So

00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:31.970
the train was really big in Dad's day, in Mum

00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:35.230
and Dad's day, and then it was... For us, it

00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:37.779
was more... oh we're going to go to sydney how

00:17:37.779 --> 00:17:39.980
exciting we'll catch the train at jasper's brush

00:17:39.980 --> 00:17:42.019
and get off sort of thing not so much freight

00:17:42.019 --> 00:17:44.940
so the freight would be loaded at bombardieri

00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:48.440
for her no at jasper's brush so there was a siding

00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.839
see there was a milk factory there at jasper's

00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.160
brush oh that's right so what do you remember

00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.380
about but she's at bolong so this was when she

00:17:57.380 --> 00:17:59.920
was at jasper this is after she'd married and

00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.119
they'd bought i'm talking about after she'd married

00:18:02.750 --> 00:18:04.990
and they bought Jasper's Brush Farm. So this

00:18:04.990 --> 00:18:07.990
is while she was at Jasper's Brush. And she used

00:18:07.990 --> 00:18:10.730
to do crocheting too. She was a really fine crocheter,

00:18:10.730 --> 00:18:12.609
and she used to send that to the markets apparently.

00:18:13.509 --> 00:18:18.910
She was very, very... Resourceful and gifted,

00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:20.809
like all those great... Very resourceful she

00:18:20.809 --> 00:18:26.009
was apparently. I don't... My grandmother, she

00:18:26.009 --> 00:18:30.700
had a stroke when she was 69. I was born just

00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:33.960
after she had that stroke. So I only remember

00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:39.319
her as incapacitated, I guess, for want of a

00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.640
better word. But she kept going for another 10

00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:46.500
years and used to still try and garden and things

00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:49.180
like that. Do you want to describe the main house

00:18:49.180 --> 00:18:52.900
that you didn't grow up in, your grandfather's

00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:56.440
house? Is that still there? It is still there.

00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.799
We live in it. We bought nine acres. That's Bob

00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:05.440
and I. We bought nine acres off Dad when he took

00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.740
a couple of blocks off the farm. And so we are

00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:12.519
actually on the original house, in the original

00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:17.380
house. And my mother and father built a house

00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:20.279
on another five acres off the farm and Mum still

00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:24.200
owns that. Mum is still with us. She's a hundred

00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:30.029
and a half. She had a stroke when she was in

00:19:30.029 --> 00:19:34.509
her 90s, so her communication has basically gone.

00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:38.029
She hears and all that, but she can't speak at

00:19:38.029 --> 00:19:42.630
the moment anymore. Did we get her name? She

00:19:42.630 --> 00:19:46.670
was Una Mary Ison originally. Una Mary Barham.

00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:51.650
That's one thing I have to say, is that interestingly

00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:55.869
for that era, but Mum and Dad were always a team.

00:19:56.819 --> 00:20:02.559
They always were D -H and U -M Barham. The farm

00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.359
belonged to D -H and U -M Barham and everything,

00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.900
checkbooks, everything was the two of them. So

00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:14.420
they were a great team running the farm. Mum

00:20:14.420 --> 00:20:18.380
was busy with four daughters too. So your mother,

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.180
where is she residing today? RFBI home, Freemasons

00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:26.579
Home in Bury. It's quite good accommodation there,

00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:28.720
isn't it? It looks nice. It's nice. Yeah, it's

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.599
nice. She's well cared for. Your father had his

00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:37.660
own way of farming in terms of cutting fresh

00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:40.700
feed as he went, which was a bit unusual because,

00:20:40.779 --> 00:20:45.460
you know, did he change that way after he inherited

00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:50.099
the farm? I think Pop was a grower too. I think

00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:52.440
they were all growers. My sister, like my oldest

00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.519
sister, she can remember. still like our pop

00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.680
using the draft horses planting crops down the

00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.980
bottom on the on the flat so i think he was a

00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:08.619
bit the same but certainly after dad took over

00:21:08.619 --> 00:21:12.059
dad mum and dad took over it was because they

00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:15.359
they actually bought the farm off pop it was

00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:20.279
probably upped a lot i think since then so can

00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.759
you describe the land that you're grandfather

00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.420
it was a bit there was a bit of hill and flat

00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:29.480
or it was we always thought it was the best farm

00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:31.900
in the brush but that's probably a little biased

00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:35.759
it was a beautiful farm um we had the creek running

00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.680
through it just as jasper's creek runs right

00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:42.440
through it so that was a real asset we had the

00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.400
flat the flat area which was obviously on the

00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.160
creek banks which did occasionally flood like

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.039
we still get floods there occasionally and then

00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:54.799
The hilly area, it went up towards Jasper's Brush

00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.039
Road. So we had the hill paddocks as well. And

00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.480
then... And what was happening with the hill

00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.119
paddocks? Like corn. On one of the paddocks,

00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:08.000
Dad often grew corn. He often grew saccharine.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.339
He grew it on the bottom paddocks as well. And

00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:15.539
he grew not only the corn and the saccharine

00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:18.380
and so on, he grew grasses as well. So he always

00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:21.369
had a paddock of like... at the right season

00:22:21.369 --> 00:22:24.309
obviously ryegrass and clover growing he grew

00:22:24.309 --> 00:22:26.849
a lot of clover and things like that he did a

00:22:26.849 --> 00:22:30.390
lot of strip feeding of the cattle so every day

00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:34.069
it was shift the electric fence and put the cows

00:22:34.069 --> 00:22:37.369
on that strip and then then some of the area

00:22:37.369 --> 00:22:39.670
he had open so when they'd finished their strip

00:22:39.670 --> 00:22:42.849
they would just then wander out the paddock and

00:22:42.849 --> 00:22:46.849
into the open area on the flat yeah but so he

00:22:46.849 --> 00:22:51.269
was quite meticulous Very much into, yeah, cropping

00:22:51.269 --> 00:22:55.509
and, yeah, farming. And he also was quite meticulous

00:22:55.509 --> 00:22:58.430
with the cattle. He built up the herd a fair

00:22:58.430 --> 00:23:02.690
bit and was very much into the AIS, which would

00:23:02.690 --> 00:23:05.269
have come through his family too from the naps.

00:23:06.529 --> 00:23:10.789
And he used to breed. Did they show? They did

00:23:10.789 --> 00:23:14.289
show, not in my time, but certainly before that.

00:23:14.309 --> 00:23:16.950
There were plenty of ribbons in the dairy, you

00:23:16.950 --> 00:23:20.319
know, hanging up there. And Dad had a prize cow

00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:24.279
that he used to show all the time. But they did

00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:27.599
show all the local shows. And they used to win

00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.299
quite a few prizes, obviously, from the gnat

00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:34.000
breed. So what equipment is your father using?

00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:36.779
What tractors do you recall? Is he on a tractor?

00:23:37.059 --> 00:23:41.000
Yeah. From my memory, like in my era, we had

00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.279
a tractor. My older sister remembers when we

00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.319
got the tractor. So she remembers the horses.

00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.940
We still had the horses in my memory too. They

00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:54.720
were still there. Dad loved animals. He loved

00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.819
horses. So it was very hard for him to say goodbye

00:23:58.819 --> 00:24:02.480
to Captain and Nugget and Prince, which were

00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.259
the three horses, but eventually he did. I remember

00:24:05.259 --> 00:24:08.420
when they went, but my sister remembers them

00:24:08.420 --> 00:24:11.480
being used. But I always remember Dad with a

00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.789
tractor, just an old red Massey Ferguson. Yeah,

00:24:14.829 --> 00:24:16.930
we didn't have a... Some people had the grey

00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:20.009
one earlier, but we didn't get ours till later,

00:24:20.089 --> 00:24:23.970
obviously, which was the red one. And he had...

00:24:23.970 --> 00:24:27.069
Because Dad did so much cropping, he had things

00:24:27.069 --> 00:24:33.369
like, you know, ploughs and rakes and all the

00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:36.890
hay equipment, except a baler, because Mr Farl

00:24:36.890 --> 00:24:40.160
down the road had... Dad did the raking. They

00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.359
worked in cooperation a lot, the farmers, down

00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:46.799
our road. Mr Farrell had the baler. Dad had the

00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.220
rake. Dad would do the raking. Mr Farrell would

00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:53.220
do the baling on both farms. And I can remember

00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:56.279
even going down to Farrell's and driving the

00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:59.920
tractor while they loaded up the hay. And that's

00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:04.400
like when I was probably about 12, I think. Yeah,

00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:09.090
so what else did he have? Oh, the harrows. Basically

00:25:09.090 --> 00:25:12.670
all the farm equipment that a farmer would use.

00:25:13.450 --> 00:25:17.390
Was the water sourced from the creek? And how

00:25:17.390 --> 00:25:21.710
did you collect the water? We actually had town

00:25:21.710 --> 00:25:25.910
water because the actual pipes to bury go right

00:25:25.910 --> 00:25:29.289
through the centre of our farm and through the

00:25:29.289 --> 00:25:31.930
creek and across. So we were on town water, which

00:25:31.930 --> 00:25:36.559
was a big bonus in those days. Later on, when

00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.720
Dad was leasing the farm, one of the farmers

00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.400
did actually put in a, did put in a, not a pump

00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.700
so much, but he worked out a system where, a

00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:49.559
gravity system where he could get water from

00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:51.640
the creek to fill the troughs down the bottom.

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:57.599
But was that underground? Well, he put the pipe

00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.980
down into the creek and then, yeah, it was underground

00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:02.660
to the trough somehow. I'm not exactly sure how

00:26:02.660 --> 00:26:04.599
he did it, but it was just a gravity feed from

00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:07.200
the creek. Very clever, really. What's his name,

00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:08.920
do you recall? Yeah, that's the Farls. That was

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:14.240
David, actually. David. So how did... Did they

00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.480
have to put... Like, it does get a bit wet around

00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:20.240
there, doesn't it? Yeah. Did they have to implement

00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.720
any sort of drain... drainage systems that you're

00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:27.119
aware of in that swampy area no because when

00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:29.960
our farm it wasn't really swampy area yes it

00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.019
would flood but it would drain really fast so

00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:35.259
we didn't have a problem with that obviously

00:26:35.259 --> 00:26:38.119
down on the other side of jasper's brush there

00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.339
was a lot of swampy area which they put the drainage

00:26:40.339 --> 00:26:43.019
system in so where's that when you say the other

00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:46.950
side of jasper's brush well down on the Swamp

00:26:46.950 --> 00:26:49.769
side? Yes. So the lower. The back of, yeah, the

00:26:49.769 --> 00:26:52.730
lower side. So down, if you know the area down

00:26:52.730 --> 00:26:55.390
where the airstrip is, the Jasper's Brush airstrip

00:26:55.390 --> 00:26:58.109
that's there now, all of that area, they put

00:26:58.109 --> 00:26:59.970
the drainage ditches through, which was part

00:26:59.970 --> 00:27:03.710
of the Isons farm, part of the Files farm, part

00:27:03.710 --> 00:27:08.170
of the Jones's farm. Yeah. So important. Very

00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:10.269
important. It was a very big thing. It was a

00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:11.990
very, I think you'll find, you'll be able to

00:27:11.990 --> 00:27:14.589
find lots of information. It didn't affect us.

00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:19.400
That was lucky? Yeah, we were lucky, yeah. We

00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:24.400
were pretty lucky. How was life when your grandfather's

00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:29.779
here in the early part of the 20th century? What's

00:27:29.779 --> 00:27:31.900
the community doing, do you know? Like you've

00:27:31.900 --> 00:27:35.640
got, what facilities do you have for socialising?

00:27:36.099 --> 00:27:38.779
Yeah, so, I mean, we always had, we had the school,

00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:43.289
which was very, it was like the centre. the jasper's

00:27:43.289 --> 00:27:45.309
brush you know we had lots of things connected

00:27:45.309 --> 00:27:47.470
to the school so we went there to school but

00:27:47.470 --> 00:27:51.589
they'd have socials and they'd have crack a night

00:27:51.589 --> 00:27:54.029
and all that kind of thing you know the pmc used

00:27:54.029 --> 00:27:56.529
to do did they call it empire day then empire

00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:59.670
day yeah well even when i was young it was empire

00:27:59.670 --> 00:28:02.670
day yeah and then we just changed it to crack

00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:07.690
a night but yeah empire day and we had all that

00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:10.309
so we'd have did you know what it meant I think

00:28:10.309 --> 00:28:12.869
we did because I think we used to have a little,

00:28:12.950 --> 00:28:15.809
I remember being taught about it in school and

00:28:15.809 --> 00:28:18.690
then having half a day off. We got half a day

00:28:18.690 --> 00:28:22.470
off to build the bonfire. Bonfire. And, you know,

00:28:22.529 --> 00:28:25.509
Dad and Uncle Ray and other people would come

00:28:25.509 --> 00:28:27.910
in and help build the bonfire. We just did it

00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:31.029
that day. Everyone had plenty of sticks, stuff

00:28:31.029 --> 00:28:35.809
around. Who would have provided the tutney bungers

00:28:35.809 --> 00:28:39.279
and the crackers? Yeah, well, the P &C. Actually,

00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.920
which I think Dad was the secretary for many,

00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:48.099
many years, but they would go out and buy lots.

00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:50.740
You could also buy your own then, so everybody

00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:53.859
had a few little ones of their own, but they

00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:56.799
had the big display and they used to take charge

00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:59.759
of the big display. That would have been exciting.

00:28:59.980 --> 00:29:04.660
Oh, it was so exciting because our life was Jasper's

00:29:04.660 --> 00:29:09.119
brush, so that's what it was like. Dad's life

00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.960
was Jasper's brush when he was a kid and our

00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:14.380
life really was Jasper's brush for most of us.

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:16.599
The only reason we went to Berry was for church.

00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:20.720
We went to the Methodist or Uniting Church on

00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.299
a Sunday every Sunday morning. And how would

00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:25.900
you get there in your time and in your dad's

00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:30.799
time and in his granddad's time? Well, apparently

00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:35.359
Pop, who was a very bad driver from all accounts,

00:29:35.660 --> 00:29:40.609
had a little car. But mum and dad talk about

00:29:40.609 --> 00:29:42.430
when they were younger, they used to actually

00:29:42.430 --> 00:29:45.509
ride their bike into Bury or sometimes they'd

00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:49.390
go along the railway line in the trolleys that

00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:51.670
the Fettlers used because there was, you know,

00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:55.150
a Fettler's house down our road as well. What

00:29:55.150 --> 00:29:58.410
is a Fettler? Well, good question, but they used

00:29:58.410 --> 00:30:00.549
to go along the railway all the time and make

00:30:00.549 --> 00:30:02.569
sure that everything, yeah, make sure everything

00:30:02.569 --> 00:30:04.849
was safe and they'd make sure there was enough.

00:30:05.909 --> 00:30:08.609
and the lines were safe and the track was safe

00:30:08.609 --> 00:30:12.049
and clear and all that. So they checked the infrastructure

00:30:12.049 --> 00:30:14.509
of the railway tracks? Yeah, and they'd go through

00:30:14.509 --> 00:30:16.670
quite regularly and do that. I don't know how

00:30:16.670 --> 00:30:19.450
often, but we had like... There was a house at

00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:22.009
the railway station. There was also a fettler's

00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:24.230
house as well as the gatekeeper's house, which

00:30:24.230 --> 00:30:26.869
was the Burgess, the fettler's house. In my day,

00:30:26.970 --> 00:30:30.150
the Browns lived in that. But it went. It must

00:30:30.150 --> 00:30:32.720
have gone when the... Took away everything else

00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.079
when they took away the station, I think. In

00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.339
my later life, it wasn't there, but I can't actually

00:30:37.339 --> 00:30:40.759
remember it going. So was it the Fettler's house?

00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:44.180
So the Browns, he was a Fettler? He was a Fettler.

00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.180
Could you see them from where you lived, the

00:30:47.180 --> 00:30:49.660
Fettlers, on the track? Yeah, yeah, we could,

00:30:49.700 --> 00:30:52.839
because we can see from our hill, which was where

00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:55.700
our house was, we could see, not from Pop's house,

00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.400
but from our house, we were on the top of the

00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.400
hill, so we could see down to the railway line,

00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.759
yeah. So you'd see them going along. What else

00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.279
would you see? Describe it when you're looking

00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:08.200
out. Would you see lots of cows? Lots of cows.

00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.940
Lots of corn. Lots of corn paddocks up pretty

00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:14.319
close to the house. Perfect view of the creek

00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.259
all the way through. And you talk about the waterhole,

00:31:17.380 --> 00:31:19.700
a deep waterhole. Yeah, we had a good swimming

00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:22.039
hole in the creek that we all used to congregate

00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:24.500
at. How many kids would be there? Probably ten,

00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:28.750
around ten -ish. Ten we'd spend often. all morning

00:31:28.750 --> 00:31:31.769
there and then wander up home for lunch and then

00:31:31.769 --> 00:31:34.529
wander back down in the afternoon it was a it

00:31:34.529 --> 00:31:37.750
was a wonderful life and it was yeah and everyone

00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:40.250
looked after everybody else you know so we had

00:31:40.250 --> 00:31:42.430
as I said there were the Joneses and the other

00:31:42.430 --> 00:31:46.849
Burgesses and the um the Harris's when they came

00:31:46.849 --> 00:31:49.549
and then there were the Johnsons and so there

00:31:49.549 --> 00:31:52.690
was a lot of kids down our lane so and to go

00:31:52.690 --> 00:31:55.250
to school Because the school was just across

00:31:55.250 --> 00:31:58.089
basically the creek from us. Everyone used to

00:31:58.089 --> 00:32:00.849
walk up to our house. They'd go in our top gate,

00:32:01.009 --> 00:32:03.789
pick us up as well. We'd all go through the bottom

00:32:03.789 --> 00:32:06.210
gate, down the hill and over. We had a plank

00:32:06.210 --> 00:32:09.289
across the creek to get to school. So we'd all

00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:11.410
walk across the plank up the bank and we were

00:32:11.410 --> 00:32:14.609
at school. So it was very handy. So that was

00:32:14.609 --> 00:32:16.650
Jasper's Brush School? That was Jasper's Brush

00:32:16.650 --> 00:32:19.190
School. And who was your teacher there? Mr Williams

00:32:19.190 --> 00:32:21.509
was the teacher there for a long time. He had

00:32:21.509 --> 00:32:25.430
Dad. And he also had my three older sisters.

00:32:26.009 --> 00:32:29.670
And then... What sort of man was he? I do remember

00:32:29.670 --> 00:32:34.049
him and everyone speaks very highly of him. Everyone

00:32:34.049 --> 00:32:36.490
thinks he was a wonderful teacher and a wonderful

00:32:36.490 --> 00:32:39.349
man and he was very clever because he made quite

00:32:39.349 --> 00:32:41.890
a few things that we had in our house, you know,

00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:45.170
things like a copper dipper and we had a table

00:32:45.170 --> 00:32:47.690
that he made and things like that. Did he blacksmith?

00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:51.039
Not that I know of, no. I don't remember any

00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.079
blacksmithing around there. Who's sheared your

00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:58.099
horses? Dad had the one riding horse and he had

00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:02.940
a few paces. Dad bred paces with Mr Johnson.

00:33:03.339 --> 00:33:05.019
Okay, let's talk about that for a bit. So when

00:33:05.019 --> 00:33:07.140
you say, you mean trotters? Yeah, but they're

00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:09.180
paces. There's a difference. Okay, tell me the

00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:12.079
difference. Look, this could be very confusing.

00:33:12.819 --> 00:33:16.339
It's to do with the way they run and their legs,

00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:19.410
whether the two... whether the two sideways legs,

00:33:19.569 --> 00:33:23.170
the two sides go together or whether the opposite

00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:25.849
sides go together. What type of horses were they?

00:33:26.150 --> 00:33:30.970
Dad raised those, had those horses with Mr Johnson.

00:33:31.250 --> 00:33:34.609
How many? And where would they race? Oh, they'd

00:33:34.609 --> 00:33:37.369
go, they went racing now. They went, they were

00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:40.180
serious. They went to Bulleye. Was there a race

00:33:40.180 --> 00:33:42.039
track there? Well, the shows. They used to do

00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.440
the shows as well, but they used to go to the

00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.000
races at Goulburn at some different times. They

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:49.619
had one horse called Honey Wynne, and she was

00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.420
really the main horse that they had, and she

00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:54.940
was really quite good. And then they bred from

00:33:54.940 --> 00:33:58.559
her with other stallions, so we had a Viennese

00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.819
Wynne and a Jasper Lad and a few others that

00:34:01.819 --> 00:34:04.579
weren't quite as good as her, but it was a good...

00:34:04.579 --> 00:34:09.059
Dad loved it. He loved the horses. As kids, like...

00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:11.849
I went to the trots with Dad right until Dad

00:34:11.849 --> 00:34:14.849
passed away, basically, was what we did. It's

00:34:14.849 --> 00:34:18.349
a dusty old environment. It is. But we loved

00:34:18.349 --> 00:34:21.190
it. It was fun. It was fun. It was an adventure

00:34:21.190 --> 00:34:23.590
for us all. Was it just you and your dad or a

00:34:23.590 --> 00:34:26.570
few others? What I can remember, it was just

00:34:26.570 --> 00:34:30.030
me and Dad and then when Bob and I were together.

00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.239
Bob would come as well. And then occasionally,

00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:36.239
if they were going up to Wollongong, if they

00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.559
went to Bulleye and places like that, I had a

00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.920
sister who was living in Wollongong, so her and

00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.760
her husband would come. Yeah, so different people.

00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:48.099
But me being the youngest, I got to spend probably

00:34:48.099 --> 00:34:53.159
a lot of extra time with Dad and Mum, I guess,

00:34:53.179 --> 00:34:56.110
but Dad in particular. That's lovely. It was

00:34:56.110 --> 00:34:58.590
lovely. Yeah, Dad and I were pretty close. We

00:34:58.590 --> 00:35:00.429
were all pretty close, but Dad and I were very

00:35:00.429 --> 00:35:03.690
close, and I loved the trots too. And what was

00:35:03.690 --> 00:35:05.809
it about the trots? I think it was just different

00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:08.309
to the everyday, because, you know, farm life

00:35:08.309 --> 00:35:11.989
is hard. 365 days a year. Dad never had a day

00:35:11.989 --> 00:35:14.690
off. You don't get Christmas off even, so it

00:35:14.690 --> 00:35:19.050
was two milkings, 365 days a year, and every

00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:23.070
day working. the field except for Sunday dad

00:35:23.070 --> 00:35:25.730
always took Sunday where he only milked mornings

00:35:25.730 --> 00:35:29.090
and afternoons and Sunday he spent with grandma

00:35:29.090 --> 00:35:31.650
and pop we had lunch with grandma and pop every

00:35:31.650 --> 00:35:34.090
Sunday and dad would cook the dinner while we

00:35:34.090 --> 00:35:36.550
were at church we'd all go over there have our

00:35:36.550 --> 00:35:39.570
dinner that dad had cooked and yeah so we had

00:35:39.570 --> 00:35:42.909
a lovely lovely family environment and dad was

00:35:42.909 --> 00:35:46.449
close to to pop And Grandma too. I never ever

00:35:46.449 --> 00:35:48.449
saw them, even though they worked together all

00:35:48.449 --> 00:35:50.630
the time on the farm, I never saw Pop and Dad

00:35:50.630 --> 00:35:53.949
have an argument. So you now live in Pop's house.

00:35:54.110 --> 00:35:57.409
I live in Pop's house. Can you just go through

00:35:57.409 --> 00:36:00.090
your siblings and their year of birth? There

00:36:00.090 --> 00:36:03.909
were four of us. I have three siblings. I had

00:36:03.909 --> 00:36:09.030
Diane, and she was born in 1947. Then there was

00:36:09.030 --> 00:36:12.050
Julie. Julie has passed away, but she was born

00:36:12.050 --> 00:36:18.929
in 1949. Chris was born in 1952 and then I was

00:36:18.929 --> 00:36:22.690
born in 1956. So Dad had four daughters. I probably

00:36:22.690 --> 00:36:26.730
was the hopeful for a male. I think we all were.

00:36:26.769 --> 00:36:29.789
But still, Dad was really good. Like I said,

00:36:29.869 --> 00:36:31.590
you know, him and Mum were partners and whatever.

00:36:31.730 --> 00:36:34.409
But when we used to say to Dad, you know, do

00:36:34.409 --> 00:36:37.429
you wish you had a son? He'd say, I don't give

00:36:37.429 --> 00:36:40.309
two hoots, you know. So it was lovely. We never

00:36:40.309 --> 00:36:42.369
felt like we should have been a boy. Were you

00:36:42.369 --> 00:36:45.949
a tomboy? Yeah, we were, we were probably, or

00:36:45.949 --> 00:36:47.949
were a little bit, because we spent a lot of

00:36:47.949 --> 00:36:50.789
time down in the paddocks, you know. Tell me

00:36:50.789 --> 00:36:52.570
what you're doing. Like you say, how many cows

00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:55.210
is Dad milking? And how big did the herd grow?

00:36:55.389 --> 00:36:57.710
40 to about 50 he was milking, but then he'd

00:36:57.710 --> 00:37:00.530
have like a dry herd as well. And we had a dry

00:37:00.530 --> 00:37:04.269
run up at Strong's Road. He never took our actual

00:37:04.269 --> 00:37:06.769
cattle, the milking cattle up there. They were

00:37:06.769 --> 00:37:09.469
always kept on there. So sometimes he would take

00:37:09.469 --> 00:37:12.460
cattle up there that were... dry you know which

00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:15.960
means they were in calf or whatever so they'd

00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:18.619
go up there occasionally but he also as I said

00:37:18.619 --> 00:37:22.099
he was a grower and he also did a lot of planting

00:37:22.099 --> 00:37:25.840
up there too so he grew corn and giant paddock

00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.980
of potatoes he used to grow up there again with

00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:31.619
the farls so again we did a lot of things with

00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:35.400
the farls and we'd have big days up there when

00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:38.980
the potatoes were ready and they missed i don't

00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:42.980
know mr foul had a plow like a push plow that

00:37:42.980 --> 00:37:46.920
plowed the potatoes out so they'd do that people

00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:50.920
like david would push the plow and then All us

00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.340
little kids would have to run along and pick

00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:55.579
them all up and bag them. Dad used to actually,

00:37:55.699 --> 00:37:58.119
again, to supplement the farm income, they used

00:37:58.119 --> 00:38:00.900
to sell bags of potatoes sometimes. Do you know

00:38:00.900 --> 00:38:04.420
what types? He grew everything, so he would actually

00:38:04.420 --> 00:38:06.860
just grow all of them, but mainly in that era

00:38:06.860 --> 00:38:10.420
it was like the Sebagos. So how's he getting

00:38:10.420 --> 00:38:13.860
the produce from Strong's Road? With a tractor

00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:16.750
and a trolley. So we had a trolley that... We'd

00:38:16.750 --> 00:38:19.550
go, like, his tractor was registered so we'd

00:38:19.550 --> 00:38:22.329
go on the highway, so out Strong's Road, down

00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:25.590
the highway and then into our road. And he'd

00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:28.269
tow, like, trolley loads of corn and he grew

00:38:28.269 --> 00:38:31.989
corn up there too. I remember being very scared

00:38:31.989 --> 00:38:34.090
when he'd grow corn up there and he'd load the

00:38:34.090 --> 00:38:36.670
trailer up and it was quite steep up there. The

00:38:36.670 --> 00:38:39.190
trolley right up and then when he was coming

00:38:39.190 --> 00:38:42.590
up. We weren't allowed to sit on the tractor

00:38:42.590 --> 00:38:45.130
then. He'd be coming up, he'd have to come up

00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:48.650
really slowly and the tractor would be lifting

00:38:48.650 --> 00:38:52.090
up because he had so much load on the back. I

00:38:52.090 --> 00:38:57.090
remember as a little kid being quite scared that

00:38:57.090 --> 00:38:59.809
he would tip, but he never did and he was a very

00:38:59.809 --> 00:39:03.170
good tractor man. People used to get him to do

00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:07.210
their tractor work too once he retired. What's

00:39:07.210 --> 00:39:09.500
the highway look like? The highway was different,

00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.840
obviously, to what it is now. It was two lane

00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.559
and it used to wind. It used to be a little wooden

00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:17.519
bridge over the creek. Always had accidents on

00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.659
it because it was narrow and dangerous. And there

00:39:20.659 --> 00:39:23.159
was a bend and then it used to come up and bend

00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:26.500
around and bend around and then back down past,

00:39:26.739 --> 00:39:29.460
you know, where Isons Farm is now. Yeah, where

00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:33.059
Isons are now. So it was a bit windy around our

00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:35.679
place because it went up the hill. A lot of the

00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:38.000
boundaries have changed over the years, of course,

00:39:38.019 --> 00:39:40.460
haven't they, with development? Yeah, definitely.

00:39:40.739 --> 00:39:44.619
Well, even the last highway change, our block

00:39:44.619 --> 00:39:48.000
is on the edge of the highway and we even lost

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.139
a little bit more of our nine acres then. Do

00:39:51.139 --> 00:39:52.880
they pay you for that? Yeah, they do. They pay

00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.019
market value compensation, so that's not quite

00:39:57.019 --> 00:39:59.619
so bad. So your dad's home safely with the potatoes.

00:39:59.780 --> 00:40:03.710
Where do they go from there? So I think at that

00:40:03.710 --> 00:40:06.789
stage he was probably just selling them locally.

00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:10.409
I know later on he used to also grow potatoes

00:40:10.409 --> 00:40:14.829
with Alec Rutledge after he'd stopped dairying

00:40:14.829 --> 00:40:18.010
out at Broughton Vale and he used to sell them

00:40:18.010 --> 00:40:20.730
in at the factory. So they'd grow a paddock of

00:40:20.730 --> 00:40:23.309
potatoes and bag them and whatever and then sell

00:40:23.309 --> 00:40:26.730
them in at the berry factory shop. At the milk

00:40:26.730 --> 00:40:31.019
factory? Yeah, at the factory shop. And he'd

00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:34.039
grow corn out there too. He had corn, potatoes,

00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:39.219
stuff growing everywhere. And even when we were

00:40:39.219 --> 00:40:42.739
little, he always had a big vegetable garden

00:40:42.739 --> 00:40:45.659
down on the creek somewhere. And then it got

00:40:45.659 --> 00:40:49.559
even bigger at home. He was always growing. It's

00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:53.079
a lot of work. He did a lot of work. He was a

00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:56.079
workhorse. He was a workhorse and he was not

00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:59.889
a very big man. That's probably part of the reason

00:40:59.889 --> 00:41:01.929
that he ended up with such severe arthritis.

00:41:02.590 --> 00:41:07.110
When the change came to bulk milk, so from the

00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:11.110
cans to bulk milk, he was getting pretty crippled

00:41:11.110 --> 00:41:13.750
by that stage and he was only in his early 40s.

00:41:14.030 --> 00:41:17.110
And he would have had to invest quite a bit of

00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:20.409
money because our dairy wasn't big enough for

00:41:20.409 --> 00:41:23.369
a big bulk tank and he had to make the decision

00:41:23.369 --> 00:41:28.800
to continue or... And he realised that he couldn't

00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.300
keep working like he was and to invest that amount

00:41:32.300 --> 00:41:34.079
of money, plus he would have had to actually

00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:36.440
got bigger because most of the farms got bigger

00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:40.199
when bulk milk came in. And he just didn't think

00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:44.579
his body would do it anymore. And there was no

00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:47.960
one really to take over. I would have loved to

00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.599
have taken over at some stage, but, you know,

00:41:51.619 --> 00:41:55.670
really it wasn't realistic. Were you too young

00:41:55.670 --> 00:41:57.550
then? Oh, well, I was too young. I was only about

00:41:57.550 --> 00:42:01.090
13 or 14. And really, really, I probably never

00:42:01.090 --> 00:42:05.530
would have realistically. But I loved the farm

00:42:05.530 --> 00:42:08.070
too. And that's why we probably came back and

00:42:08.070 --> 00:42:11.550
bought the old house there. So tell me, were

00:42:11.550 --> 00:42:14.150
you girls working and helping on the farm every

00:42:14.150 --> 00:42:16.750
day type thing? We had our little jobs like,

00:42:16.789 --> 00:42:20.010
you know, we'd feed the calves, that kind of

00:42:20.010 --> 00:42:22.510
thing. We didn't do the milking. How would you

00:42:22.510 --> 00:42:25.550
feed the calves? In buckets, so they had big...

00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:28.469
Sometimes it was... If Dad had lots of fresh

00:42:28.469 --> 00:42:30.969
milk, we'd use that, but mainly powdered milk.

00:42:31.110 --> 00:42:34.030
And we'd mix it up and then feed them in buckets

00:42:34.030 --> 00:42:38.630
and we'd have to stand there while they... Some

00:42:38.630 --> 00:42:40.929
of them were quite strong. Powdered milk's coming

00:42:40.929 --> 00:42:43.710
from where? I actually don't know where he got

00:42:43.710 --> 00:42:47.190
it from, but he'd buy it in big bags. Probably

00:42:47.190 --> 00:42:51.289
down at the... Co -op? Yeah, somewhere down there,

00:42:51.329 --> 00:42:53.670
yeah. I don't know, it was big bags of it. We

00:42:53.670 --> 00:42:55.750
just called it powdered milk. It was probably

00:42:55.750 --> 00:42:59.489
some proper calf powdered milk. I'm not exactly

00:42:59.489 --> 00:43:02.550
sure about that. So with the calves, were they

00:43:02.550 --> 00:43:05.070
in their own area, what you recall? They were,

00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:08.590
yeah. Dad always had the calves up close to the

00:43:08.590 --> 00:43:11.690
dairy, so there was a paddock between the dairy

00:43:11.690 --> 00:43:14.969
and where we lived. And that's where the calves

00:43:14.969 --> 00:43:16.730
were. They didn't have, in those days, we didn't

00:43:16.730 --> 00:43:18.969
have, like, separate pens and that for them,

00:43:19.070 --> 00:43:21.530
but they were there. And then Dad would just

00:43:21.530 --> 00:43:25.329
keep the calves that he wanted, you know, that

00:43:25.329 --> 00:43:28.150
were heifers for a start. He would keep those

00:43:28.150 --> 00:43:29.809
that he thought would be good and then other

00:43:29.809 --> 00:43:32.789
calves he'd get, he would sell. And that was,

00:43:32.789 --> 00:43:36.510
like, extra money for Mum to feed us all. So

00:43:36.510 --> 00:43:39.389
where's he going to sell the cows and the calves?

00:43:39.570 --> 00:43:43.750
The calves, a truck used to come around. A man

00:43:43.750 --> 00:43:46.389
called Tib Reed, who was actually a friend of

00:43:46.389 --> 00:43:48.849
Mum's family, and they used to come around. We

00:43:48.849 --> 00:43:51.829
called him the calf man. He would come around

00:43:51.829 --> 00:43:55.110
and buy the calves and then take them into the

00:43:55.110 --> 00:43:58.449
sale yards. I think he mainly went to Berry,

00:43:58.630 --> 00:44:01.730
but he probably went to Bomaduri as well. But

00:44:01.730 --> 00:44:04.210
our calves would have usually ended up in Berry.

00:44:04.530 --> 00:44:06.489
Are you milking at all? Are you helping milk?

00:44:07.030 --> 00:44:11.769
We didn't really milk. Dad didn't. want us to

00:44:11.769 --> 00:44:15.789
milk because he was afraid of the danger i think

00:44:15.789 --> 00:44:19.250
he didn't want us to get kicked or knocked over

00:44:19.250 --> 00:44:21.650
or something as the cows got restless in there

00:44:21.650 --> 00:44:26.070
so we do things like help clean up you know hold

00:44:26.070 --> 00:44:28.349
the shovel under their tails if they did anything

00:44:28.349 --> 00:44:31.409
in the in the bales that kind of thing um we

00:44:31.409 --> 00:44:34.389
used to have to do things like shell all the

00:44:34.389 --> 00:44:37.510
corn when dad used to grow the corn he'd dry

00:44:37.510 --> 00:44:41.010
a lot of the cobs And then we had an old corn

00:44:41.010 --> 00:44:43.050
sheller that we'd have to put them through and

00:44:43.050 --> 00:44:45.869
get all the corn so that would provide feed and

00:44:45.869 --> 00:44:49.590
also feed for the chooks and so on. That was

00:44:49.590 --> 00:44:51.909
another job we did. We used to go down the paddock

00:44:51.909 --> 00:44:54.750
a lot with Dad and do things. After every flood

00:44:54.750 --> 00:44:57.170
there was always rocks on the flat that came

00:44:57.170 --> 00:44:59.550
up from the creek and our job was to go with

00:44:59.550 --> 00:45:02.510
Dad and pile them all back up and put them back

00:45:02.510 --> 00:45:05.409
where they belonged or put them in piles. Bit

00:45:05.409 --> 00:45:09.210
of weeding down there. After the floods, there'd

00:45:09.210 --> 00:45:11.949
be a bit of swampy grass that would get in that

00:45:11.949 --> 00:45:14.610
Dad would get rid of, so we'd have to go and

00:45:14.610 --> 00:45:17.829
pull that out at times. Shift the electric fence,

00:45:18.050 --> 00:45:20.250
we always went with him to do that, especially

00:45:20.250 --> 00:45:23.090
once his arthritis got worse because he'd just

00:45:23.090 --> 00:45:25.889
send us along the fence line and he'd just stand

00:45:25.889 --> 00:45:29.210
at one end, basically. Yeah, and pull corn. We

00:45:29.210 --> 00:45:32.789
spent many hours in corn paddocks pulling cobs

00:45:32.789 --> 00:45:35.570
of corn for Dad to dry and whatever. That was

00:45:35.570 --> 00:45:37.829
a big job that we did. How then would the corn

00:45:37.829 --> 00:45:41.510
be finally cleared, the stalks and whatnot? Well,

00:45:41.570 --> 00:45:45.590
Dad used to chop it by hand with cane cutters,

00:45:45.590 --> 00:45:47.949
him and Pop. I can still remember Pop down there

00:45:47.949 --> 00:45:51.030
doing it as well with cane cutters bit by bit.

00:45:51.269 --> 00:45:53.250
His hands would have been almost like a cane

00:45:53.250 --> 00:45:55.829
cutter. Yeah, he had terrible arthritis in his

00:45:55.829 --> 00:45:59.179
hands as well. It's hard work, all manual labour.

00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:02.840
It was. He worked very hard. And then, of course,

00:46:02.900 --> 00:46:07.099
he would then bring in the plough and plough

00:46:07.099 --> 00:46:10.119
it all up and ready to do something again. So

00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:12.460
he might then plant it with, I don't know, ryegrass

00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:15.380
and clover or something next time and then something

00:46:15.380 --> 00:46:18.280
else and then back to corn. He probably wasn't

00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:21.440
using fertilisers. He used just superphosphate.

00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:26.489
We had a little tiny seeder. and a little tiny

00:46:26.489 --> 00:46:29.429
fertiliser spreader that was like the size of

00:46:29.429 --> 00:46:32.570
a funnel that used to go with it. So he used

00:46:32.570 --> 00:46:35.710
to use superphosphate at times. He used to do

00:46:35.710 --> 00:46:39.070
things like, as I said, he'd grow a lot of ryegrass

00:46:39.070 --> 00:46:42.409
and clover. So then once the cows had eaten it

00:46:42.409 --> 00:46:44.889
off, he'd then plough it in, which of course

00:46:44.889 --> 00:46:47.710
is nitrogen and whatever, and clover's high in

00:46:47.710 --> 00:46:50.929
nitrogen. He was really like a serious cropper.

00:46:51.340 --> 00:46:53.320
I imagine other farmers would have learned from

00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:57.059
his example in Jasper's Brush. Mr Farrell was

00:46:57.059 --> 00:47:00.099
very industrious too. He did a lot of growing

00:47:00.099 --> 00:47:03.260
and he, as I said, he had the hay baler and he

00:47:03.260 --> 00:47:05.639
used to go around all the farms and bale their

00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.800
hay and that kind of thing. Yeah, a lot of people

00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:11.619
did grow corn. People down at O 'Keeffe's Lane

00:47:11.619 --> 00:47:14.320
grew a lot of corn. It's interesting because

00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:16.780
Terry's baling now, isn't he? Yeah, he's baling.

00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:20.380
A much bigger baler than Mr Files. Mr Files was

00:47:20.380 --> 00:47:22.760
the little, you know. What did he have? Little

00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:24.880
rectangular bales that used to come out. Do you

00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:27.119
know the old bales of hay? Yeah, I've seen them.

00:47:27.260 --> 00:47:30.440
Yeah. Yeah, I've seen it. But that was good in

00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:33.619
those days. Nobody else had a baler. Do you ever

00:47:33.619 --> 00:47:37.739
remember them stooking the hay? Very vaguely.

00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:41.699
Somewhere way back there, I can remember down

00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:47.159
on Johnson's Farm them doing that. For some reason,

00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:49.760
I'm putting it in a shed, but I don't really

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.059
know why they did that there and then, but I

00:47:53.059 --> 00:47:56.639
can remember it just. What's your dairy at home?

00:47:56.699 --> 00:47:58.619
What do you call it? The bales, we used to call

00:47:58.619 --> 00:48:03.940
it the bales. It was a six cow bales. It used

00:48:03.940 --> 00:48:06.820
to only be four, and then Dad and Pop added on

00:48:06.820 --> 00:48:10.579
another one and turned it into six as they built

00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:13.179
up. Is that still there? It had an extension.

00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.179
It is still there. But it's kind of a bit dilapidated.

00:48:17.219 --> 00:48:19.420
But yeah, and all of that, the bales and the

00:48:19.420 --> 00:48:25.420
stalls are on the now 8 acres that we own. So

00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:31.079
it won't go, although it's slowly deteriorating.

00:48:31.099 --> 00:48:34.119
Dad actually, with my uncle Ken, mum's brother,

00:48:34.260 --> 00:48:37.619
they actually built the stalls back in the 40s,

00:48:37.619 --> 00:48:40.300
I think. Yeah, so it's quite a construction.

00:48:41.139 --> 00:48:44.170
And they got the timber from... Up on the run,

00:48:44.250 --> 00:48:46.349
up Strong's Road, because there was a forest

00:48:46.349 --> 00:48:48.170
there, they actually got a lot of the timber

00:48:48.170 --> 00:48:51.449
to cut themselves and did the whole lot themselves.

00:48:52.369 --> 00:48:55.110
How much land at Strong's did he have? I think

00:48:55.110 --> 00:48:57.949
it was only about 20 -odd acres, but I can't

00:48:57.949 --> 00:49:00.630
actually guarantee that. Around 20 acres, I think.

00:49:00.670 --> 00:49:05.429
So it made our farm about 100 acres. And when

00:49:05.429 --> 00:49:09.829
was that sold? I actually don't know, but our

00:49:09.829 --> 00:49:12.360
access to that was through... I think there was

00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:15.619
an access the other side too, but we always accessed

00:49:15.619 --> 00:49:19.699
it through Matthew's farm and Mr Matthew ended

00:49:19.699 --> 00:49:23.119
up buying it off Dad. So we used to go up through

00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:25.400
Matthew's farm to reach the block that Dad had

00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:28.159
up there and I don't know who he got the block

00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.500
off and why he got the block up there, but him

00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:34.579
and Pop bought it at some stage. Now you had

00:49:34.579 --> 00:49:38.260
a school of arts in Jasper's Brush. Yes, it had

00:49:38.260 --> 00:49:41.760
blown down before I can remember. Apparently

00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:44.079
it disappeared in one big windstorm, crashed

00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:48.139
to the ground. What were the winds like? Westerlies?

00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:50.980
We get very good westerly winds, very strong

00:49:50.980 --> 00:49:53.440
westerly winds, yeah. So they're coming from

00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:56.760
Canberra Mountain, are they? Or somewhere? Yeah,

00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:59.400
all I gather that's where they're coming from,

00:49:59.420 --> 00:50:02.719
up that way up and then like, yeah, that ridge

00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:05.699
of mountains there. But they come over that ridge

00:50:05.699 --> 00:50:07.900
and it's the same. Maroo probably gets it even

00:50:07.900 --> 00:50:11.619
worse than us. Yeah, we did get good wins. So

00:50:11.619 --> 00:50:15.539
what did you do for social life as a teenager

00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:18.639
and growing up? So, yeah, when we were little

00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.340
kids, the social life was basically Jasper's

00:50:21.340 --> 00:50:23.260
Brush, Jasper's Brush School, but we went to

00:50:23.260 --> 00:50:25.659
church and Sunday school and that in Berry and

00:50:25.659 --> 00:50:27.840
we had Sunday school picnics and that kind of

00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.320
thing. Who was your Sunday school teacher? Oh,

00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:34.659
my goodness. The one I remember mostly was Mrs

00:50:34.659 --> 00:50:38.500
Thompson from Broughton Village. And she was

00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:42.199
lovely. And, of course, Mr Agar used to run the

00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:47.000
Sunday school. Yes, I saw that plaque on the

00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.280
community library the other day. Oh, OK. There's

00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.559
a plaque there. Oh, is there? Well, Mr Agar used

00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:56.960
to run the Sunday school. He was the superintendent

00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:59.599
or whatever you like to call it. That's what

00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:03.199
it says. Well, the minister when I was there,

00:51:03.219 --> 00:51:07.219
the one when I was little, was... There was one

00:51:07.219 --> 00:51:10.320
earlier that I can vaguely remember. Mr. Udy,

00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:12.340
I think that was. But then there was Mr. Bird.

00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.599
He was the main one when I was a... How did you

00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:19.960
experience your spirituality? Do you feel like

00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:24.340
you're a spiritual person? Well, yes. I wouldn't

00:51:24.340 --> 00:51:26.820
say I'm a religious person. No. I feel like...

00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:30.360
I think I get mine from the farm, to be honest.

00:51:30.460 --> 00:51:33.059
I actually feel that. And that's, I think, why

00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:36.289
we came back and bought that. And I... would

00:51:36.289 --> 00:51:39.349
like to think that when I go from this world,

00:51:39.449 --> 00:51:42.909
my ashes might go in the creek and go down the

00:51:42.909 --> 00:51:46.150
creek, you know, and sail down there. But I think,

00:51:46.190 --> 00:51:50.650
I don't know, I think I just get it from closeness

00:51:50.650 --> 00:51:52.690
to the land, I think. I think that's what it

00:51:52.690 --> 00:51:55.530
is, to be honest. Do you have animals there today?

00:51:57.230 --> 00:52:00.349
We've had a variety of animals. At the moment,

00:52:00.389 --> 00:52:04.250
we don't have any animals. When Dad gave up milking...

00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:08.400
um he went off and worked on farms and like you

00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.099
know he did a lot of tractor work for all the

00:52:10.099 --> 00:52:13.179
farms around the place and he also milked for

00:52:13.179 --> 00:52:15.579
people when they went on holidays and that but

00:52:15.579 --> 00:52:19.179
he also got into pig breeding he had a very varied

00:52:19.179 --> 00:52:21.639
life dad got into that with my again with my

00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:24.960
uncle ken mum's brother big pigs i don't know

00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:26.880
what sort they were he got them off somebody

00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:30.199
else we had like all colors they were black and

00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:32.900
they were white ones you know the pink ones and

00:52:32.900 --> 00:52:36.650
there was a brown and white and he just got them

00:52:36.650 --> 00:52:39.190
off other it was it was a hobby you know he just

00:52:39.190 --> 00:52:42.230
he loved animals he you know he probably found

00:52:42.230 --> 00:52:44.610
it hard to give up the cows so he did that after

00:52:44.610 --> 00:52:48.809
the cat so the cows yeah actually he had them

00:52:48.809 --> 00:52:51.510
a little bit before that he did start to get

00:52:51.510 --> 00:52:53.389
them because he used to feed them surplus milk

00:52:53.389 --> 00:52:55.329
that was another little thing that he used to

00:52:55.329 --> 00:52:58.630
do so yeah but he didn't then he got more after

00:52:58.630 --> 00:53:01.070
that and then he had a few sheep for a while

00:53:01.070 --> 00:53:05.260
so we've had a variety So were they all going

00:53:05.260 --> 00:53:08.280
to be slaughtered eventually? Yeah, well, yes,

00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:11.059
probably eventually. He did sell them to... There

00:53:11.059 --> 00:53:14.699
was a pig farmer down further along the highway

00:53:14.699 --> 00:53:16.880
and his dad would breed them and then when they

00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:20.239
reached a certain height, size, he would take

00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:22.400
them down to him and then he'd continue it on.

00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:25.679
He was more serious. Do you know what sort of...

00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:27.360
This is a bit random. Do you know what sort of

00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:32.159
ducks your grandmother... You know, I don't know.

00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:35.400
I actually don't know. Any photos of any of that?

00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:39.000
No, we have no photos. I couldn't find any photos.

00:53:39.139 --> 00:53:42.659
I went through Mum's photo box and I couldn't

00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:45.500
find any photos of the farm back in those days.

00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:47.559
Well, I mean, you either had money and could

00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:50.960
afford to take photos or you didn't. They didn't

00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:56.000
have money. That's really it, isn't it? My father's

00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:58.949
family, the Barhams, were actually from... They

00:53:58.949 --> 00:54:03.449
came from Tomarong Farm down there. So they did

00:54:03.449 --> 00:54:07.190
really well and they bought land down there around

00:54:07.190 --> 00:54:11.909
1855 or some time like that, apparently. How

00:54:11.909 --> 00:54:15.510
do you spell your last name? B -A -R -H -A -M.

00:54:16.590 --> 00:54:19.510
So you will see in the Tomarong family history,

00:54:19.610 --> 00:54:23.369
you'll see something about them. Do you know

00:54:23.369 --> 00:54:26.050
your father's siblings? My father's siblings?

00:54:26.389 --> 00:54:30.719
Yep, there was... Olive was the oldest, and then

00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:34.380
there was Vera, she was next, and then there

00:54:34.380 --> 00:54:38.920
was Geoff, Geoffrey, and then Edgar, and then

00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:43.119
Dad, he was Donald. What about your mother's

00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:46.920
side? Yeah, so my mum had, she was the ison,

00:54:47.019 --> 00:54:49.699
so she had, she was the oldest, she was Una,

00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:53.440
and then there was, we called her Peg, but it

00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:57.650
was Ailsa Margaret. Ailsa Margaret was her real

00:54:57.650 --> 00:55:02.530
name. And then there was Kenneth and Alfred Ray,

00:55:02.769 --> 00:55:05.289
but he was called Ray. I want to get back to

00:55:05.289 --> 00:55:08.530
the milk just quickly. So who was your carrier?

00:55:08.829 --> 00:55:11.230
Bert Mitchell was our milk carrier during my

00:55:11.230 --> 00:55:13.670
time and his son, Johnny. They would come and

00:55:13.670 --> 00:55:16.190
pick up the cans and load them on their truck.

00:55:16.389 --> 00:55:19.530
We had it like everyone had a loading ramp kind

00:55:19.530 --> 00:55:22.590
of thing that they would pull it back in and

00:55:22.590 --> 00:55:25.659
they'd put the cans on the truck. Everyone's

00:55:25.659 --> 00:55:28.340
cans had a different colour paint around it.

00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:31.039
Most people painted their can with a stripe of

00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:33.699
some kind of colour. If they ever got mixed up,

00:55:33.780 --> 00:55:36.280
people knew which was their can. Some cans were

00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:38.659
stamped, but a lot of people couldn't afford

00:55:38.659 --> 00:55:42.420
to have a personal stamp. What was your colour?

00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:45.539
Well, we had cream at one stage, but then we

00:55:45.539 --> 00:55:48.659
had pink for some reason. So I remember the cream

00:55:48.659 --> 00:55:51.800
ones, and then I remember they turned pink for

00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:54.190
some reason. Dad must have got another tin of

00:55:54.190 --> 00:55:56.750
paint from somewhere. Our milk went down to the

00:55:56.750 --> 00:55:59.670
Nowra Dairy Co -op, which was at Bomaduri, obviously,

00:55:59.789 --> 00:56:03.510
yeah. So do you ever recall anything at Jasper's

00:56:03.510 --> 00:56:07.530
Brush, a milk co -op or creamery? I don't recall

00:56:07.530 --> 00:56:11.050
it, but it was still there when Dad came there.

00:56:11.389 --> 00:56:14.909
Dad used to tell us all about it and people coming

00:56:14.909 --> 00:56:18.099
down on there. Horse and carts bringing their

00:56:18.099 --> 00:56:20.679
milk down there and half the milk spilling out

00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:22.619
as they were going round the corner too fast

00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:24.480
with their horse and cart, things like that.

00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:26.480
I think it was down on the railway line. There

00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:28.960
was a siding and it was down there. There were

00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.699
still pipes and things like that down there in

00:56:31.699 --> 00:56:34.699
our day. We could still see pipes and that. Pipes

00:56:34.699 --> 00:56:36.719
from the milk running through? From the milk

00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.219
factory, yeah. So it was gone in our day. All

00:56:40.219 --> 00:56:43.440
we had was the post office, the school, the railway

00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:47.110
station, later on the airstrip. Okay. The post

00:56:47.110 --> 00:56:50.030
office was located where? On the highway, just

00:56:50.030 --> 00:56:54.130
south of Jasper's Brush Road now, and nearly

00:56:54.130 --> 00:56:56.449
opposite Strong's, the entrance to Strong's Road.

00:56:56.710 --> 00:56:59.989
Who ran that? Yeah, that was Callaghan's. And

00:56:59.989 --> 00:57:02.969
they had the farm there as well, and they ran

00:57:02.969 --> 00:57:05.650
the post office as well. And they're dairy farming?

00:57:05.949 --> 00:57:07.989
They were dairy farming, yeah. Was everybody

00:57:07.989 --> 00:57:11.550
dairy farming? Everybody was dairy farming. Basically

00:57:11.550 --> 00:57:14.489
our school, Justice Brush School, consisted of,

00:57:14.550 --> 00:57:18.110
I'd say, 99 % of dairy farmer kids with just

00:57:18.110 --> 00:57:21.750
occasionally someone else. Tomarong, were they

00:57:21.750 --> 00:57:24.449
milling? They were farming down there too. They

00:57:24.449 --> 00:57:27.989
actually apparently, when the land was sold,

00:57:28.170 --> 00:57:32.590
they bought land in that time and their land,

00:57:32.769 --> 00:57:35.269
their farm, was actually where Tomarong Township

00:57:35.269 --> 00:57:38.969
is now. apparently the barums the barums they

00:57:38.969 --> 00:57:41.829
actually gave the land for i think for the hall

00:57:41.829 --> 00:57:45.909
and also i think the church came off their farm

00:57:45.909 --> 00:57:48.989
so so with your dad what year did he actually

00:57:48.989 --> 00:57:52.409
purchase the family farm pop bought the farm

00:57:52.409 --> 00:57:56.769
in 29 and so when we were little kids when we

00:57:56.769 --> 00:58:00.449
were young kids mum and dad were buying the farm

00:58:00.449 --> 00:58:04.750
so it would have been around the probably 60s

00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:08.480
I think in the 60s. When did your father pass?

00:58:08.860 --> 00:58:14.179
He was 80, so it was 2005. There you go. My father

00:58:14.179 --> 00:58:18.019
passed in 2005 and he was born in 1924 and my

00:58:18.019 --> 00:58:21.960
mother was born in 1924 and she was five days

00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:25.079
younger than my father and she's still with us.

00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:28.260
Where was your father's funeral held? At the

00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:32.980
Uniting Church in Bury. And then he was, he's

00:58:32.980 --> 00:58:36.969
interned into the... wall at the Berry Cemetery.

00:58:37.269 --> 00:58:41.329
Did you teach locally? I did. First of all I

00:58:41.329 --> 00:58:44.150
taught in Wollongong at Mount Morrigal, then

00:58:44.150 --> 00:58:46.710
I taught up in the Northern Territory for 10

00:58:46.710 --> 00:58:48.789
years and then... What attracted you up there?

00:58:49.030 --> 00:58:52.530
Just a change I think, an adventure and my husband

00:58:52.530 --> 00:58:55.750
was on a Commonwealth Teacher's Scholarship so

00:58:55.750 --> 00:58:59.289
it was there or Canberra and we decided the Territory

00:58:59.289 --> 00:59:01.369
was more interesting than Canberra and we had

00:59:01.369 --> 00:59:03.829
a great time up there, we loved it. You teach

00:59:03.829 --> 00:59:06.309
Indigenous kids up there? We went to Nullumboy

00:59:06.309 --> 00:59:08.849
to start with, which was a mining town in East

00:59:08.849 --> 00:59:10.789
Arnhem Land, and then we went over to Groote

00:59:10.789 --> 00:59:14.889
Eiland. We were in a community there at Umbakumba.

00:59:15.590 --> 00:59:19.130
And then we came home for a couple of years while

00:59:19.130 --> 00:59:22.730
Bob was doing some extra study, and that's when

00:59:22.730 --> 00:59:25.349
our daughter was born. She was born here. And

00:59:25.349 --> 00:59:27.489
then when she was about eight months old, we

00:59:27.489 --> 00:59:31.329
went back to Barunga, which is outside Catherine.

00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:34.679
and that's where our son was born. He was born

00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:38.219
in Catherine. And then once we had the two children

00:59:38.219 --> 00:59:41.500
and our daughter was, she was four, so just about

00:59:41.500 --> 00:59:44.039
getting ready for school, we decided it was time

00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:47.099
to come back home and be with family, you know,

00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:48.920
so she could have grandparents and everything

00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:52.219
because we were in pretty isolated areas, really.

00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:55.619
So can you tell me your children's full names

00:59:55.619 --> 00:59:59.920
and their year of birth? Yep, so our daughter

00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:04.989
is Holly. Erin Pastor and she was born in 1988

01:00:04.989 --> 01:00:09.690
and our son is Nicholas James Pastor and he was

01:00:09.690 --> 01:00:13.110
born in 1991 and that's another thing that I

01:00:13.110 --> 01:00:15.690
should add that if you go through the Barham

01:00:15.690 --> 01:00:20.030
family history you'll notice that there's James

01:00:20.030 --> 01:00:25.409
then Henry then James then Henry so that name

01:00:26.090 --> 01:00:29.130
has gone right through. My grandfather was James

01:00:29.130 --> 01:00:33.369
Henry and then one of my uncles was Geoffrey

01:00:33.369 --> 01:00:36.849
James and then my dad is Donald Henry. So that

01:00:36.849 --> 01:00:39.590
name just kept going through. And our son, which

01:00:39.590 --> 01:00:43.070
is funny, is Nicholas James. So the James is

01:00:43.070 --> 01:00:46.170
still there. And also one of my nephews has got

01:00:46.170 --> 01:00:49.429
a James in his name too. But it's a common name

01:00:49.429 --> 01:00:51.530
now. When you were growing up, did you see many

01:00:51.530 --> 01:00:55.800
Indigenous kids around? No, not really. Occasionally

01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:58.099
an Indigenous family would come to school at

01:00:58.099 --> 01:01:00.360
Jasper's Brush if they were working on a farm.

01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:04.440
Or earlier, like during Dad's time, there used

01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:06.800
to be a lot of peas growing around Jasper's Brush.

01:01:07.019 --> 01:01:11.739
And so the Indigenous families used to come when

01:01:11.739 --> 01:01:15.800
pea picking time. So Mum used to pick a lot of

01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:17.920
peas too. She used to go around picking peas.

01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.539
So she worked with a lot of the Indigenous families.

01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:24.539
pick the peas, and those kids would sometimes,

01:01:24.699 --> 01:01:27.579
like, come to the school. When we had the reunion,

01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:30.559
there was actually a lady that came who was an

01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:33.019
Indigenous woman. I can't remember her name.

01:01:33.260 --> 01:01:35.480
And she actually came to the reunion. We didn't

01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.119
know her at all. But she told us a good story

01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:41.139
about how, when they were kids, like, they were

01:01:41.139 --> 01:01:44.320
picking peas up Strong's Road somewhere, and

01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:47.579
their parents sent them down to, supposedly,

01:01:47.579 --> 01:01:50.480
the school, but they were hiding under the...

01:01:50.619 --> 01:01:54.760
bridge the jaspers creek bridge and mr williams

01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:57.320
who was the teacher spotted them and came down

01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:59.360
and got them and took them to the school and

01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:01.760
she remembered that as such a positive thing

01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:03.380
which was nice you know it was nice that she

01:02:03.380 --> 01:02:05.179
came and shared that but she came to the reunion

01:02:05.179 --> 01:02:07.780
and shared that and she said that we're only

01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:10.280
there for a couple of weeks but meant something

01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:12.440
to her something to her yeah yeah she was an

01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:16.300
older lady yeah but that was nice so no we didn't

01:02:16.300 --> 01:02:21.980
have a Came back, what year was that? We came

01:02:21.980 --> 01:02:27.260
back at the end of 1991, so we started sort of

01:02:27.260 --> 01:02:31.500
back here in 1992. Our youngest child, Nick,

01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:34.340
was only six weeks old when we came back here.

01:02:34.579 --> 01:02:38.380
So I had a couple of years off teaching and then

01:02:38.380 --> 01:02:41.139
I got a job at TAFE as a literacy and numeracy

01:02:41.139 --> 01:02:45.460
teacher and worked there for a long, long time

01:02:45.460 --> 01:02:51.079
until I was 64. And I also did a stint at one

01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:53.679
of the local high schools for a few years in

01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:57.920
there as well. Did you retire after that? I retired,

01:02:58.199 --> 01:03:01.860
yeah. I loved teaching though. We enjoyed it

01:03:01.860 --> 01:03:04.900
and we got to see lots of things and meet lots

01:03:04.900 --> 01:03:08.579
of interesting people. It was probably a little

01:03:08.579 --> 01:03:11.880
bit easier at TAFE too than in the school system

01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:15.530
at that stage. That brings us to the end of the

01:03:15.530 --> 01:03:19.730
recording. Give me 24 hours to load some photographs

01:03:19.730 --> 01:03:22.610
on my website where you can catch the podcast

01:03:22.610 --> 01:03:27.050
also across all podcast platforms. I'll put the

01:03:27.050 --> 01:03:30.250
names of the Indigenous children that attended

01:03:30.250 --> 01:03:34.329
Jasper's primary school over the years in the

01:03:34.329 --> 01:03:37.489
written introduction before the podcast plays

01:03:37.489 --> 01:03:40.230
so you can view the names if you're interested.

01:03:40.550 --> 01:03:43.210
In respect of the Indigenous, I didn't want to

01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:46.380
speak their names with this podcast. Tune in

01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:49.219
in a few weeks when I'll present to you episode

01:03:49.219 --> 01:03:52.480
four. I'm not telling you who yet, but it could

01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:54.679
be Crozier's Road. I'm going to jump around a

01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:58.599
bit this one. My website is theresesweeney .com

01:03:58.599 --> 01:04:02.460
.au. This will also culminate in a publication

01:04:02.460 --> 01:04:06.199
at the completion of the project. Thanks for

01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:08.460
joining me today. See you in a few weeks.