My name is Therese Sweeney. My podcast is called
Therese Makes History. I'm a historian who's
had digital media skills for many years. Season
one, the Dairy Lane Project. Today I bring you
the final episode, episode number 10. This season
has been supported by Turf Co, our region's largest
agricultural employer. operating for 40 years
and located in Jasper's Brush. Also, McGoldrick's
estate agents in Bury. They've been there since
1987. Tim McGoldrick leads an incredible team
who sell luxury properties, farms, acreage, as
well as houses in new estates that are popping
up. They rent out luxury properties for people
to holiday at. Thank you both for your support
this season. The title to episode 10 is The Davis
Family on the South Side of the Swamp. Samuel
Thomas Davis was born in Portland, England in
1835. He married Susan Anthony on the 17th of
August, 1886. They migrated to Australia on the
ship Hindostan, which left from Liverpool. and
arrived in Sydney on the 12th of August 1887.
Susan was pregnant with their first child. They
were of Methodist faith and settled at Milton
on the south coast and had seven children there.
Firstborn John, 1857. Sarah, born 1860. William,
born 1862. Edward, born 1863, Robert, born 1866,
and Caroline, born 1868. The youngest son, Robert,
married Selina Knapp in 1890. Selina was born
in 1868, and they too had seven children. Stella,
born 1891, Oswald, born 1893, Dorothy, born 1896,
Dulcie Mere, born 1899, she was known as Dulcie,
Raymond, born 1902, Leo, born 1906, and Merle,
born in 1910. Leo Davis, the youngest son, is
Laurel Kellett's father, who I am engaging in
this recording. He later farmed with his father,
Robert, at Maroo Meadow. Robert Davis, Laurel's
grandfather, moved up to Maroo in January 1923.
Leo was 16. Robert was influenced by Uncle Jim
Knapp, who told him there was a farm for sale.
James R. Knapp, as Jim is known, ran the cattle
stud Swanley in Bolong. Six of his prized specimens
are featured in the 1920 publication A History
of the Illawarra, which I have referenced previously
in episode three of The Boxels. Jim farmed at
Bolong from 1918. Leo Davis farmed at Maroo with
his wife Minnie. who he married in 1923. He's
Laurel Davis's father. Laurel married Harry Kellett,
whose family date back in the region from the
late 1820s. Harry was 12 years older than Laurel.
So today I am recording our final episode of
Season 1 with Laurel Kellett, who is 86 years
of age. We recorded this episode at her home
in Bomaderry. How are you today, Laurel? Very
well, thank you. What's your full name? Laurel
Wilma Kellett. Where did you grow up? At Maroo
Meadow. Whereabouts exactly? Opposite the silos,
winery or Wiley's. How much land did your family
have, roughly? It would be rough. I'd say around
about 100 acres. It wouldn't have been big. What
year were you born? 1938. Where were you born?
In Narra. I don't know where I was born. It could
have been the hospital. I know my brothers were
born in Junction Street in that little hospital.
You have other siblings. What were their names?
Three brothers. Graham. Bob, Robert, I should
say, Robert and Evan. They were all younger than
me. Okay, what are your first memories as a kid
in the landscape at Maroo? Did you have cows?
Yes, we had milking cows. Do you remember the
type of cows? Yes, Illawarra's. What sort of
dairy? Was it a walkthrough or how were they
milking? Yes, milk walkthrough. Did you ever
work in the dairy? Yes. Can you tell me a bit
about what you did? put machines on and off and
brought cows in and took cows to a paddock wherever
they were to be fed, put them in the stalls because
we fed cows in the stalls. Well, you had a silo?
Yes, we had a silo. And as kids, when they were
filling the silo up with the corn, as it got
up a bit, we'd jump out a window down onto the
silage. It had a window, so it had a few windows
going up. Yes. And as you filled it, the window
got blocked. So it had a ladder to get up to
every window. So it was there when you were born?
Yes, it was built before I was born. And how
many cows? I've got no idea, but I reckon probably
only about 30, if that. That was common. Tell
me about that. What did your neighbours look
like? Oh, our neighbours were turners. Thorburns,
Wylies, and we were on the swamp, on the Jasper's
Brush swamp, and our neighbours there were Irvines,
and they came in from Bolong. Their farm came
in from Bolong. My uncle, Ray Davis, was our
neighbour, and Isons were a little bit further
along the road. So Ray was your father's brother?
That's right. Tell me about your parents, their
names, and who did your dad marry? Dad married
Minnie Goodyear, and she came from Canberra.
Actually, they relocated from Canberra to Harley
Hill, and I think that's how Dad met Mum, probably
at the Methodist Church. So your father's name?
Leo Vane Davis. Tell me a bit about your spiritual...
your spirituality, your family and the church?
Oh, yes. My grandfather, Robert Davis, was a
lay preacher and we've always gone to the Methodist
Church at Bury. That was part of the community
as well? Yes, definitely the community. And we
had fellowships in there. I went to fellowship
and Sunday school. Then when I got married, I
went to a younger women's fellowship. And although
it was at the Methodist Church, we had ladies
that... probably never been to church, that came
down to those groups of a night. I think they
were once a month. And what did you do? Oh, we
had social functions. I can't just remember what
sort of social functions. We might have speakers,
things like that. I know here recently I saw
a lady from Bury and she said, I would never
have known you, only that I came down to that
fellowship. And it probably was 50 or 60 years
ago. How many women would attend them? 15 to
20. So the church was in Bury and you have a
long affiliation with that church, do you? Your
family? Yes, we did. Although Harry and I have
moved around a bit. I now belong to Bomadiri,
but I still go back to Bury now and again. I
think you go back to your grassroots. So Harry's
your husband? Yes. How did you meet Harry? At
a dance at Canberra. Who was playing in? Harley
Dobell was on the drums and another lady played
the piano and they had a dance twice a month,
I think. There were dancers out there. Wileys,
our neighbours, they were dancing teachers and
then I went to dancing lessons with them. Then
Mum used to take us up to Canberra to dance.
My mother, of course, originated from Canberra
so we'd go back to Canberra to our relatives.
They were goodgers and there's still goodgers
up there. and they're all related to me. So that's
Minnie? Yes. Do you remember any of Minnie's
sisters or brothers? Yes. Mum had a brother called
Bert Goodyear, a sister called Ivy, and she was
Ivy Bevan, and Mum. What did you wear to the
dances? Did you make your own dresses? Oh, I
probably did then, because I went to TAFE and
did sewing lessons for a few years. OK. So, yes,
I would have probably made my own dresses. Well,
you went to TAFE, so... Was that before you were
married? Yes, when I left school, I went to TAFE.
I learnt dressmaking, white work, millinery.
White work wedding dresses? No, underwear, mainly.
Tell me about that. What fabrics were they using
to make... No, just out of interest. Was it cottons
or...? Yes, we had cottons, but we had silk sort
of material. What was the course called? White
work. Because it was white underwear. Well, yes,
and you had fancy, we did fancy work with that.
What does that mean? So what's fancy? A bit of
lace? Yes, lace and handwork on lace. Okay. So...
That dog's, I'm going to kill that dog. Oh, I'm
going to kill that dog too. You didn't tell me
you had a dog that far. Well... I don't know
why they bark. I don't know why the neighbour
doesn't throw a stone at it. So you're sewing,
are you? You're needlework? You're needlework,
yes. You did use your machines as well. Fine
work, you used hand, you did hand work. Are there
particular stitches that have names? Oh, there
probably are, but I can't remember them. Yeah,
did you enjoy it? Yes, yes. And how long was
the course for? Oh, two to three years. I think
dressmaking was three years. And I did the other
courses as well. I did millinery and flower making.
That was another course I did. I can't remember
what else. In those years, you wore a hat to
everything, except into a dance. You didn't wear
a hat. But people wore hats. Oh, well, I don't
know what there is to describe about a hat. It's
a hat. The shape of them, were they... Oh. Did
you have... Whatever the fashion was, you...
Yes, probably whatever the fashion was. But that's
quite a craft. Well, yes, but you don't see it
anymore. No, that's why I'm asking you about
it. Don't see it. Hmm. Where was the TAFE? Down
here at the... where it is now, on the highway.
Were there a lot of women in the class? Yes,
there were a lot of women in the class. Just
women? Yes. The boys had carpentry and mechanics.
What sort of machine were you using? We would
have used singer machines mainly, but I did have
a beniner, which I've still got one now, but
I don't use it very often. Were the singer machines
foot pedals? Yes. I can't remember. Me using
one without power, I think it was power all the
time I was at TAFE. Who supplied your fabrics?
Oh, we bought them at Morrison's Fabric Shop
in Narra. Sometimes you'd go to Sydney or somewhere
like that, probably if you wanted something a
bit different. You went to Bombardier High School?
No, I went to Narra Intermediate High School.
And where was that located? On the corner of
Plunkett. and Berry Street. It's still there
now. Did you play sport? Yes, I played tennis.
I played tennis out in Berry. I played tennis
in Narra. I played night tennis. After I was
married, I think I played midweek tennis, sometimes
out at Farm Meadows, sometimes in Berry, sometimes
in Narra. So it did move around a bit, the competitions?
Yes, the competitions, yes. Did you play at Lemons
Lane? Did you play with the Mullers on their
tennis court? No, but I did play with Mullers
at Jaspers Brush on the Jaspers Brush School
tennis court. That would have been before I was
married. What else do you remember about growing
up as a kid? You've got the dairy cows. You've
got a photo there of some tractors with iron
wheels on them. Why would they be using those?
That tractor came from... Down Milton Way, I
think, because Dad and his brother used to go
and get timber out of the bush. I don't know
who they cut it for or why, but I'm sure that's
where Dad brought the tractor from. And the iron
spike wheels were like the four -wheel drives
have replaced that. I'm sure it was how that
worked. Yeah, because they would have given it
stability. That's right. We also had a Ferguson
tractor. So what was the name of that spiked
one? McCormick Deering. Deering, yeah. I never
drove it. I know Dad did. I only drove the Ferguson.
But the Ferguson had tyres on it just like a
car. Well, we used to take the milk to the road.
I can't remember taking the milk to the road
on the tractor because when us kids got a bit
bigger, or Graeme and I anyway, Dad got an old
truck. We used to drive that, take the cans to
the road and put them on the milk stand and then
the milk truck would come along and pick them
up. How many cans were you putting there? Oh,
two or three. So the slide, you had draft horses?
Yes. We had one draft horse, but I believe there
were originally two out there, but I don't remember
two. But I remember one, and her name was Sadie.
I never had anything to do with driving the horse.
Mum and Dad went for a holiday, and they left
Graeme and I at home, I and Bob at home, with
Grandma and Grandma Goodyear. and Mum's cousin,
Percy Goodger, and he did the milking with us
kids helping him, and he must have used the horse
then. But when I got married, because Harry's
farm was very hilly, he had a horse and slide.
And he did have a tractor as well, but most of
the time he used the horse and slide because
of the hills. My first child, Jane, was about
six months old and Harry got the flu really bad
and we had corn at Camberwara and I know I had
to go up and cut the corn and put it in piles
and I took Jane with me and I used to sit her
on piles as I went and I cut the corn and then
I came home and he got out of bed and went up
and got the horse and slide and brought it back.
only because I could not use a horse. I didn't
know how to handle a horse. I could drive a tractor,
but I couldn't drive a horse. How were you cutting
the corn? With a corn cutter. It was like a short
-handled, bigger than a knife, but it looked
like that. It was thicker than a knife, and you
just cut the corn. Chop it? Chopped it, yes.
How much did you have to clear, roughly? I don't
know. It might have been 10 or 20 piles of corn.
I can't remember how many acres. It was a good
-sized paddy. He'd put it through the chaff cutter
and we'd feed it to the cows. So do you know
what sort of chaff cutter he was using? No, I've
got no idea. Did he chaff it in the paddock?
No, no, no. No, he chaffed it? Brought it home
and put it through the chaff cutter. Did you
ever put corn in the ground? Did you ever bury
silage? Not at Canberra, but we did it at Far
Meadow. You started at Maroo. Yes. And what school
did you go to there? Maroo Meadow. And who were
some of your friends there? Leila Hitchcock,
Elaine Hitchcock, Margaret Hitchcock, and then
there was the Thorburn girls, and there was the
Turner girls. They lived more or less next door.
And what were their names? One was Mary Thorburn,
but I can't remember the other girl's name. And
then there was... and I think one was Wilma Turner,
and they lived in Turner's Lane, which was next
door to us. Do you remember what post office
you went to? Yes, Jasper's Brush. It's interesting,
because you were in Maroo. I know, we were in
the middle. You were on the border. We were on
the border. We went to Maroo School, and we went
to Berry for everything else. Which school of
arts did you go to? Oh, Maroo. Yeah. I don't
remember ever going to the school of arts. Jasper's
Brush, but... But you remember the railway there?
Oh, we had to cross the railway every time we
left home because we lived on the bottom side
of the railway. There was gates for us to go
through. Other than that, if we were going over
to Wiley's, our neighbours, I would go through
our paddocks, under the railway bridge, through
another Wiley paddock, cross the highway and
to... Keith Wiley's, because I'd go over there
to see Judith and Margaret. Was the highway a
dirt road? I can't remember whether it was a
dirt road or not, actually. I can't remember
that. But it was nothing like it is now. Wiley's
Bridge used to have a bit of a bend on it, and
I know there was often accidents round about
there. People would go into the gutter. Well,
there were two families of Wiley's. There was
Fred Wiley's and Keith Wiley's. We spent a lot
of time over there on school holidays when we
were kids. Wiley's Creek, come across the highway
and on the edge of our farm and went towards
Bolong or down into the swamp. So tell me about
the swamp. Yes, when we had floods, we had water.
We always probably had enough land left. for
the cows, but that's all I remember about the
swamp. So when you're saying you had enough water,
so when it rained, there'd be enough for them
to go dry somewhere? Yes, yes, plenty of room
to go dry for a dry paddock. Did the swamp have
any drainage? Well, yes, there was drains down
there, but I don't think up our end. And I think
the drains would have been down on Eden Irvine's
farm, which would be Bolong, part of Bolong.
And I think, but I don't remember Dad talking
about drains, but he could have because we may
never have taken any notice or anything, but
there was always plenty of water down around
when we had floods. All the bird life. Don't
remember any bird life. Not when the floods came?
No, don't remember bird life when the floods
came. And I know we used to paddle in it and
nowadays every time we get a flood they tell
kids and people not to walk in the water because
there could be snakes. Well, we don't remember
seeing snakes and we used to paddle in it because
often you'd get a flood in the summertime, you
know, wouldn't be always in the winter. I don't
remember us swimming in it, but we used to paddle
in it and the water receded and then it would
leave the paddocks brown because there would
be mud left there. But you'd get rain a bit later
on and it seemed to clean up and the same thing
happens today, so it sure is wet. Oh, yes, there's
been some bad floods, and I know people have
been washed away. And I know people down Bolong
had to be helicoptered off the roofs of their
houses. In later years, there hasn't been the
floods we had when I was young. And apparently
during the war, I believe, and I can remember
the peas being grown, but I didn't realise it
was during the war, they grew peas and potatoes
because the government wanted them to have food
for people. And I know the corn paddock was between
the railway and the main road on our farm. And
I can remember a lady coming out from Berry,
she wasn't the only one, and used to pick the
peas. And I don't remember anything about the
war because our parents didn't talk about it.
I know you couldn't have lights on, but that's
all I do remember. And I remember Dad had a truck,
ran on coal or coke or something. But that's
all I can remember. Yet people younger than me
that were born in Sydney can remember a lot of
things about the war. What sort of person was
your dad? Oh, he was a happy -go -lucky sort
of a man. Was he a good farmer? Oh, I think so.
And he was a handyman, good handyman. He was
a bit mechanically minded. What about your mum,
Minnie? Yes, she used to... Milk, apparently.
I don't remember Mum really doing milking, but
she must have before we were big enough to milk.
When did you go from Maroo School? Where then?
I went from Maroo School to Narra High School.
Okay, so that's what you were talking about.
That's the only school I went to. Only two schools.
How would you get there to Narra? Bus. How would
you get around as kids? Did you have a car? We
didn't have a car until I was more than eight
years old. I remember going to Sunday school
and people by the name of Kerries used to pick
me up. They lived at Moreau and they used to
pick me up and take me but I had to walk, I walked
to the road, to the main road. Now and again
we would go back to Milton to Dad's relatives
and he would get a lend of his brother -in -law's
car in Bury. So what were the roads like driving
to Milton? The highway, as we know it. They mustn't
have been bitumen, but they must have been fairly
well graded. So just on that note, because that's
where your father's side came up from Milton.
That's right. So who were your dad's parents?
Dad's parents was Robert and Selina Davis. And
what was Selina's former name? Nap. Okay, so
you've got here your grandfather Robert was born
on the 17th of August 1866 and Selina was born
in November in 1868. Do you remember them? My
grandparents? Yes. Yes, I remember my grandparents
in Bury. The Davises came from Milton? Yes. The
Davises were at Milton and they had a farm and
they left. My grandfather decided. And I'm only
presuming that the farm wasn't big enough for
three boys to be on, so he decided that he'd
come up and look for a farm up here. Grandma
had relations up here, naps, at Bolong, so he
came up and... They were here in the early part
of the 20th century. Yes. Well, Grandpa rode
up. I think the farm he bought at Maroo was already
a farm. So he bought the cattle at that farm.
Just bought it. They did in those days. Yes,
they bought that. Walk in and walk out sort of
thing. But he came up and stayed with the Naps
at Bolong. I know that. He came back. I'll just
go back a bit. The property was at Jaspers Brush
and on the main highway. Hand milking at that
time. So remember it was hand milking. There
were no milking machines. Leo was 16 years old
and then his father had to go back, must have
been after they got here, and his father had
to go back and bring a horse and cart with furniture
and clothing. Dorothy had already gone to Balmain
for nursing and... Merle finished school at Milton.
She was the younger one of the family. She finished
her schooling at Milton before she came up. So
with her mother came to Jasper's Brush. The farm
got sold. Grandpa bought the farm and Dad and
Mum lived in one house and they had to build
a second house because they decided to cut the
farm in two. So Ray Davis had part and Leo Davis
had the other part. So there was a couple of
girls there too, were there? What were their
names? Dulcie and Merle and Stella. They were
Leo's sisters? Yes, they were Leo's sisters.
And they were all married after they came to
Bury. So you have some memories of those sisters,
don't you? I sure do, yes. There's a photograph
here. Apparently, tell me a little about, there
was a wild one. Auntie Ada? Oh, that was Grandma's
sister. Had plenty of go in her. That was a nap,
yes. What did you hear about her? Was she up
here? Yeah, she had been up here, but mainly
she stayed in Milton. And then finally when she
was married, she shifted to Queensland. And I
can remember her in Queensland when I was about
21. So you visited her on your honeymoon? Yes.
And there were younger ones, and I remember another
one by the name of Thora. But the Ada one was...
You know, she was the life of the party. She
could ride a horse pretty well, apparently. I
don't remember ever seeing her on a horse, but
so I was told. So you've got photographs of the
men... Cutting wood. Mm, cutting wood. I would
think it would be down Milton Way. It wasn't
up here. That's a long time ago. So we're talking
about the late 19th century, aren't we, really?
Yes, you are. Dolce. Tell me about Dolce, who
was born in 1898. She lived a good life, didn't
she? You've got photos of Dulcie. Who's she?
She's Dad's sister, one of Dad's sisters. She
never married and she looked after Grandma and
Grandpa in their later years. So they settled
in Bury, Richard? They settled in Bury, yes.
So when did they come up and settle there, do
you know? 1923, it says that they came up from...
And what street? And apparently you said the
house is still there. Yes, Railway Street in
Bury, straight opposite the railway. They didn't
have numbers then? No, I don't think they had
numbers. I know it was called St Elmo, and I
know the people that live in it now. So you remember
visiting them? Yes, always there. How would you
visit them? Well, I don't know what we did when
I was real young, because Dad didn't have a car,
and I don't think... Well, we had a pony when
we were younger. Us kids did. But I don't remember
riding a pony into town. But Grandpa used to
come out to the farm and he rode a horse out
to the farm from Berry. I can remember him turning
up. Did he work on the farm? Not that I know
of. I think he'd just come out to see how everybody
was going. Do you have any memories of Berry
as a younger woman? No, it's just... changed
absolutely unbelievably. So it has changed. So
you went to the church there? Yes. Was it horse
and cart in town then? Yes, it would have been.
How did you get in a car to church? Well, we
didn't because we didn't have a car. I don't
know what Mum and Dad must have done. I don't
remember a sulky or anything out there, but I
know when I was eight I used... That was when
I started to walk to the road and catch people.
Catch a lift. Catch a lift to bury. Do you remember
Swagman? Yes, I do remember them. I can remember
probably seeing them walking along the side of
the road. Do you remember seeing the Feeneys
in their tractors going up the road? Yes, but
that was really later, a long time later. I remember
Pearl and Alan and Elaine and Evelyn. I remember
them because they went to the same school as
me. You know, there was Marshalls and Limeries
and Berkwoods at Maroo, but I can remember them
coming to school because I did all my schooling
at Maroo and it was a one -teacher school. What
did you learn at school? How were you... Not
very much, I don't think. Was it chalk? Yes,
it was chalk. How did he teach you? Like, what
were you using, a slate? No, we had books. I
don't remember a slate. We were all in the one
room because I went from... From when I started
school till I finished, it was in the one room.
My whole six years or whatever it is at school
was in the one room. Did you have your own desk?
Yes, yes, we had our own desk. But did you go
to that same desk every day? Yes, yes. You started
at the front and went to the back. As you progressed?
As you progressed. As you got older? As you got
older. What about eating? Oh, you took your own
lunch. Did you have a knapsack or what? Yes,
we had school bags. I can't remember to start
off with, but I do know I walked home from school
and I know I went to school on the milk truck
because the Turner girls and the Thorburn girls
all were on the truck when I went. So the man
that picked up our milk also took us to school.
But I had to walk home because there was nothing
to bring me home. What route did you take? the
main road and we'd walk past Hitchcock's. Elaine
and Margaret walk with them and they'd stop at
their house. Then we'd walk a bit further along
to Devitt's Lane and we'd have Lola and Jim Hitchcock.
They'd fall off the group. I must have been on
my own after that because Judith and Margaret,
I don't know whether they ever walked to school.
They were a bit younger than me, so... Were there
sulkies passing you or cars? Don't remember that.
Going back a while. I know. Too far. So tell
me, you've met your husband at the dance. Yes.
What happened? Was it love at first sight? Oh,
I don't know. I don't know. How did you feel?
I had a fair few friends. I was in rural youth.
as well when I was young. And what does that
mean, rural youth? And tell me what you did.
Well, it was junior farmers. I can remember we
went to something one day. I was in Berry Rural
Youth or junior farming. There was always a junior
farmer man would come round to the school. Well,
he'd bring us home sometimes because he'd be
going back to Wiley's or somewhere and he'd bring
us home in his car sometimes when we were...
walking to school. But we never rode bikes to
school. You had no money for those? Oh, I don't
think so. No, we didn't have money. Did you ever
go to the milk factory? At Berry I did. I don't
remember much about that either, only that I
do remember that my grandfather, Davis, took
me over there one morning and I guess it was
to get milk. My grandfather, Goodyear, had come
in in his horse and cart. I do remember that.
I remember... Grandpa Dave was talking to Grandpa
Goodyear and I know I was there, so that's all
I remember about that. I wouldn't have been very
old when my grandfather Goodyear died either.
He was James Goodyear, Jimmy Goodyear. When did
you get married? We got married in 1960. You're
21. And tell me where you got married. Bury Uniting
Church or Bury Methodist Church. What sort of
reception was there? We had a reception in the...
Because those days, a lot of the churches did
the catering for a person that went to the church.
Well, Harry's parents went to that church too,
but I really didn't realise who they were until
I met Harry, so... I knew them because I was
friendly with a lot of those people because a
lot of the Kelletts went to the Berry Church.
Where did he farm and who were his parents? Frank
and Ruby Kellett and they farmed at Bundywallah.
Then they shifted to Farmeadow. I think they
went to Farmeadow and then Harry went to Camberwara.
But he was single when he went to Camberwara.
And what was he farming there? He was farming
there. They had land there, didn't they? He had
a little bit of land there, but it was hilly,
all hilly. He bought that land? Yes. Then his
father and mother had a farm out of Farmetto.
The other brother had been farming in different
farms around the Shullaven. Then they decided
they were getting too old, so the brother came
back to work on the farm. They decided that they
needed two out there on that farm. and they bought
different areas of... Well, we had Camberwara,
so we used to bring cattle from Farmetta to Camberwara
when the cows were dry. So you first went to
Camberwara as a bride? Yes. Tell me a little
bit about the property. It was hilly. Where was
it located in Camberwara? It was in Tannery Road,
and it was right up at the top end where the
dam is. Presumably... the water for the narrow
town, and the dam wasn't very far from the house.
How big was that dam? Oh, it was fairly big.
Every now and again they drain it, but they don't
use it for town supply anymore. I don't know
what they use it for, if anything. Was that your
water supply as well? No. Where did you get your
water? I think Harry got water out of a creek
somewhere there. How many cows? Oh, not many.
Maybe again about 30. We didn't milk many cows.
Was there a silo there? No. Tell me about how
it operated. I went to the dairy a bit, but he
managed the dairy on his own. And you had a house
there? Yes. And what are you doing? Sowing? Well,
no, I wasn't sowing. I suppose I was only cooking.
Yeah, well, that's enough. I know it is enough.
What were you cooking on? Oh, well, it was a
really old house, and we did have part of it
remodelled, but nothing like they do today. I
think we had a combustion stove when we started
off with, I think I had a little elect. But the
house was in two parts too when we first went
up there, which was the thing that houses were
because they never had the kitchen joined onto
the main part of the house. So it was separated.
We lived in that for a few months while we did
the other half up and then we put a kitchen in
the other half. What about toilets? Yeah, we
had a bathroom and toilet and shower and everything.
So a flush toilet to start with? You on septic?
We might have been on septic out there. We were
on septic at Farm Meadows, so we might have been
septic out there. But to start off with, I think
we were on pit toilet. And we were when I was
on the farm at Maroo too. Who'd come and clear
the pit or how did that work? Oh, well, I learnt
to do it. My brother and I learnt to do it. Now,
tell me how that worked. I want to know. Well,
you dig a hole and take the pan out to it and
tip it in and fill it up. So how big was the
tin? Probably the size of a four -gallon drop
because we had to do that when Dad and Mum were
away. Well, there was nobody else there. We didn't
ask Grandma to do it or Mum's cousin to do it.
I remember doing that at Maroo. We didn't do
it at Farmeadow, I know that. But maybe there
was a system out at Farmeadow. I think it was
flush, probably a septic out there. Can't remember
where it was. Everybody would have used pits,
I would think. They were separate from the house?
Yes. Was it scary? No, you'd just get used to
it. And again, it's not like today. There was
nobody around, you know. A lot of the farms now
are chopped up into blocks and so you've got
a neighbour 100 yards away. But the town used
to have a pan man come through. I can remember
that in Bury. I can remember it out at Gerringong
at my aunt's. He didn't dig a hole, I know that.
He took it somewhere, but yes, we had to dig
a hole. But the pan man would have collected
everyone. Yes, that's right. What about pubs?
Any family drink? No. No drinking? No. That's
good. Well. Saves a bit of drama. Did you drink
alcohol? Probably a little bit, but when we were
younger. But as we got older, we didn't bother.
Do you remember some of the... Do you call them
reverends or ministers or the clergymen? I remember
Mr Bate because he married us, but I've gotten
to know a lot since. What did you call your community?
Your parish or...? Oh, I suppose that, but that's
all changed too. I don't know whether we call
them parishes anymore or whether they're what
they are, but I belong to a group of ladies and
we call ourselves a synod group. But it is connected
to the church, but I'm the only one that goes
to it. But it's a New South Wales one, but a
lot of the time it's on Skype and I'm on the
phone. Yes. Because I don't have a computer.
But I know who they all are because I meet them.
It's only since COVID that all this has changed.
Just getting back to Canberra. Yes. So what memories
do you have there? Your husband did his thing.
Did you ever have to help in the dairy? Yes,
I did. Did you have to tie their legs up or anything?
Yes, yes. If they kicked you, you did. Yeah,
so you're still working that way on a stool?
What are you doing? Yes, yes. Milking? Milking.
And we did have machines out there. We did have
machines on the farm too before Dad sold the
farm. Were they operating on power? Yes, yes.
And, yes, you put the cow in and you put some
feed in front of her and then you tied her in
the bale and tied the leg if she kicked you.
Before I was married, I went and helped a friend
for about six weeks on a farm and it was the
same thing there, you know. It was walk -through
dairies. They're milking thousands of cows now
on rotaries and I've got a friend that I've been
in his dairy and it's rotary and it's a totally
different ball game. So the cows were coming
from Farm Meadow, your cows at Camberwara? Oh,
yes. No, we sold our cows at Camberwara before
we shifted to Berry, to Farm Meadow. How long
were you at Camberwara? I think it was about
four years. Harry was there longer than that.
I can't remember how long he was there, but I
was only there about four years. And the milk
would go to? Bombardieri. So who was collecting
the milk at Canberra? Curly Hanson. Curly Hanson?
Yes. What was he like to you? Was he a big bloke?
Yes, he was a big bloke and he was a bit of a
character. Easy to get along with. Came from
Bombardieri. Whilst you were at Canberra, what
children did you have? I had two children then,
Jane and Wendy. How old were they then? Wendy
would have been about 18 months, I think, when
we left Canberra. Jane, of course, was older.
How did you feel leaving Canberra? Well, at the
time it sounded as though it was going to be
better for us, but I did like Canberra to live
out. rather than Berry, but we had good neighbours
at Berry, so I probably shouldn't complain. So
why did you have to move to Farm Meadow? Because
the farm out there needed two people in the dairy
and we couldn't make enough on our farm at Canberra,
so it was suggested that we go to live at Farm
Meadow. And who was farming there? Harry and
his brother. And what's his brother's name? Brother
Robert. And his wife, Elaine. And they had three
children. And they lived in town. And we lived
on the farm. And what cows are you milking there?
How big's the herd? Oh, a hundred head. Around
about that. Maybe it went a bit over the hundred.
Depended on the season. And possibly when cows
were calving. Holsteins? Holsteins and Guernseys.
And we had the Guernseys because... We knew a
person that was selling his Guernseys and they
decided to buy the Guernseys and start showing
the registered cattle. Do you know who or where
they bought them? Yes, they bought them off Alex
Rutledge. Okay, so what era are we talking about
here? It was between 1960 and 1980 that we farmed
at Farm Meadow. But you still kept Canberra?
Yes, not all the time because we sold Kambawara
and replaced it with another piece of land out
near Farmita that joined our farm. So what's
your address at Farmita? 127 Koolangatta Road.
So how much acreage did that bring you up to?
Maybe all up, maybe 200 acres, and that's a rough
guess. And what about flooding? Because it does
flood around there. Yes, it flooded at the back
from Swamp Road back to our place. You can't
get away from the swamp? No, we can't get away
from the swamp. Is that useless land, that kind
of land, do you think? Well, it wasn't because
possibly when we had a good season, the cows
would go down there and graze. But there was
a lot of sour grass type stuff down there. What
are you growing? Well, we grew corn at Koolangatta.
How did you store the corn? Oh, in a pit. So
in a pit above ground? Above ground and covered
with a tarpaulin. With the tyres? With the tyres.
You never buried corn? Not that I know of. I
don't remember it being buried out there. What
was your house like? A really old house with
a big kitchen, a lounge room and about five bedrooms.
How many children did you end up having? Four
children after we went to Farm Edo. And their
names? David and Melissa. What years were the
kids born? David was 1965 and Melissa was 68.
And the eldest girl was...? Because they were
born at Canberra, that was 60 and 62. Yeah, OK.
So the other two were born at Farmeadow. So I'm
at Farmeadow now. OK. So don't go back to Canberra.
The only thing I want to go back to is I've seen
a photo of your husband in a rugby league. Who
did he play for? He played for Bury Rugby League
Football Club. In the 50s, was it? In the 50s,
yes. I know they won three premierships, I think
three years in a row in the 50s. But I never
saw him play football because when he shifted
to Canberra, he had to play with Kangaroo Valley.
He was burying it on his own. So he really couldn't
go over to the valley and play football. And
he wasn't allowed to play in Berry anyway because
that was the boundary. Things have changed now,
as everybody will know. They can play anywhere.
Do you know what position he played and what
division? Oh, he played A grade, but I think
he was a forward. When you were at Camberwara,
what about friends or neighbours? Do you remember
some of your farms around you and the family?
Yes, the Griffiths were across the creek from
us and the Sobers were on the other side of us.
They were the close neighbours. And they're dairying?
They were both dairying, yes. You were a member
of the co -op? Yes, they were a member of the
dairy co -op. And going back then, Camberwara,
we belonged to Shellhaven Dairy Company. Well,
you could buy feed there, butter, those sort
of things you could buy there. But because we
had our own cows, we didn't worry about cream.
Were you ever separating milk? No, not there.
But you have? Yes. At Maroo? Yes. A cream separator?
Well, I don't remember a great deal about the
separator, but I do know it was there and I know
milk used to come into it. It was divided, the
milk was divided, separated somehow. But we used
to make our own butter down at the farm at Maroo,
but we had a churn. So we'd bring the cream up
and put it in the churn. And my brothers and
I had to turn the churn. That was always a fight,
because nobody liked doing it, because you'd
be winding this handle for ages. Your kids are
growing up, are they? What school are they going
to? They all went to Berry Public School and
then they went to Bomaderry High School. A bus
had picked them up? And a bus would pick them
up. On Coolangatta Road? On Coolangatta Road,
yes. What are you thinking about? Are you thinking
about going to work at this stage? Yes, I decided
to go to work. Around about 72, I went and worked
as a cook at the Berry Training Farm, government
farm. where they milked cows as well because
the boys there had to work in the dairies. These
boys all came from broken homes and all that
sort of thing. Don't really know a lot about
the boys. I do know one boy that left there and
went and worked on a property beside Harry's
parents and Harry and him were pretty good buddies
to the end of their lives. They were from everywhere,
all over the state. So cooking, what are you
cooking for them and where? Oh, that was about...
I thought about 60 kids, but maybe it wasn't
that many. There were two houses. One house was
called Cool and Gatter and the other house was
called Shellhaven. And it was like a big dormitory
that the boys all slept in. But they always made...
The lady in the kitchen had to have at least
four boys in the kitchen. They were presumably
supposed to help the cook. Most of the time they
were a bigger hindrance than a help, but that's
beside the point. So I had to try and teach them
things, and they hated it. I never had any kids
in there that really liked doing it. And if they
had any chance of taking the garbage out, they'd
hide behind the garbage bin, hiding from me,
they thought. But I could see them out the window
most of the time. And how long were you there?
Twelve months. You only stayed a year? I only
stayed a year, yes, because I think the lady
I relieved came back. So where did you go from
there? I then went to Koolangatta, and I worked
for the bishops. Yes. And what were you doing
up there? I was a motel cleaner. When I first
started, there were buses come in from Victoria
and they'd have morning tea at Koolangatta. I
mean, they'd had breakfast dinner and tea all
the way up the coast, but when they got to Koolangatta,
they'd have morning tea and sometimes, unexpectedly,
the bus would turn up and sometimes we weren't
prepared. So I used to end up down in the restaurant
trying to get morning tea out for those people.
It would be there, but it wasn't always prepared,
so we had to get in recruits, and they always
came from up at the motel. How many rooms at
the motel? 30. They weren't all in a row. There
were a group of six, there were a group of four,
there was a group of three, there was one. which
was called the Convy Cottage. And I think there
was another group of five. There was another
separate one as well. But they were all over
the place. They weren't in a big long row where
it was easy. I was in the village, all around
the village, yes. All around the main house.
You were there for how long? I was at Koolangatta
for 20 years. That's a long time. And in that
20 years, they started a bush banquet night.
Might have been every week. Then I became...
A waitress. I did that as well as doing the units
of a daytime. And then finally, a little while
before I left, we'd started a breakfast for the
guests. Instead of breakfast in their rooms,
we started breakfast. And I was a breakfast cook.
And I think we had to allocate for about 100.
Who's still around the bishops today that you
might keep in contact with all? I don't really.
have much to do with them, but I do see them
now and again. What are their names? Paul, Bruce,
Robin, Megan and Greg. They're all siblings,
are they? Yes. And was it a big operation? Were
there a lot of staff? Oh, well, yes. There were
probably about six cleaners from time to time,
but you wouldn't use six cleaners every day.
You were rostered on. In the restaurant there
were quite a few because you had to have a chef.
barmen, waitresses, and they were in the same
situation, rostered on, and I have no idea how
many of those there were. When did the golf course
come into play? Yes, the golf course was in my
time. That was ran separately, was it, to you?
No, no, it was run through the office, from the
office. Their maintenance men did the golf course
as well. Tom Prosser. was Prosser. He was a maintenance
man and he was good. So tell me about how you
get to work. Were you driving then? Oh yes, I
had a licence from when I was 17. So I was driving
all the time. I drove myself to work. Sometimes
I rode the bike to work because when we shifted
to Shelavon Heads I was only down the road. So
you meant a motorbike? No, a pushbike. So tell
me, you got your licence, was that just from
a Corn Flakes box or did you...? Nearly, no.
I did go to Naira and get a licence like any
normal person would have. And they were issued
by the state? RTA or something. Oh, yes, I had
to hurry because my brother was close behind
my heels and I couldn't get the licence quick
enough, otherwise if he'd had his and I wouldn't
have, that would have been dreadful. You moved
off Farmeadow, why? Because both boys were getting
sick of dairying. They both had sons. Well, we
had one and they had two, but ours didn't want
to stay on the farm. And his son had left the
farm before that because he was working on the
farm. And he'd left the farm, so then the boys
decided that they didn't want to carry on. So
they sold all their cattle, sold the farm, and
we shifted to Haven Hills. That was sort of around
the early 80s? Yes. And you had a house built,
did you? We had a house built. Tell me how that
worked. You designed it? Yes. How was that arranged?
Through a fellow that was a neighbour, but he
was a builder. He built out there, out at Farmedo.
He built the house for us. What was his name?
Bruce Burrows. And you had an idea of what you
wanted with him? Yes, we had an idea of what
we wanted. Was that kind of your retirement house?
Well... I don't know. When we shifted out there,
things happened along the road. So that's why
we left Chilovan Heads. I had a mother sick and
I had a grandchild born 28 weeks or something.
And they all needed help. So we decided, I got
sick of travelling, so we decided to come into
here. Yes, we're on the north side of the highway
on Bomaderry Creek. It's a bit different, this
side. I bet it was different. How long have you
been here? 25 years. So it's a bit different,
isn't it? I bet it was different when you arrived
here. I put an Anglican school up the road. The
TAFE has been always in the place it is still
situated. But the highway traffic is absolutely
atrocious. So how do you get across? Well, you
run a risk. A lot of the time I have to run.
Because you get a bus there, don't you? Yes,
I catch the bus into town when I can, only to
make sure the buses continue to run, because
as you get older, if you can't drive your car,
well, you need some sort of transport. And the
taxis now are atrocious, so you wouldn't want
to be relying on them. Tell me some of your volunteer
organisations that you've worked in and still
do. Well, I've worked with Meals on Wheels, but
I don't do that anymore. I joined Red Cross when
we came to Shelhaven Heads. I've continued to
stay with Red Cross, so now I belong to Narra.
I've always volunteered around the church, like
at the op shop. You were in the caravan club.
Oh, yes, we were in a caravan club for about
20 years. Because you travelled a bit. We travelled
a lot. When you were at Shelhaven? Yes. We've
travelled around Australia, yes. We've crossed
the Nullarbor five times. and we've done a fair
bit of travelling. After I worked at Kool and
Gadda, or while I was working at Kool and Gadda,
I decided that I had a chance to get my heavy
vehicle licence. Robert Wilson, the bus company,
or Gordon Wilson, his father, they had a small
bus that ran between Shellhaven, Hensonbury with
the school kids. I'd said to Bob, if you... You
know, I wouldn't mind because his wife had to
leave and I was going to take over from her.
I went and got my licence on the bus. I was only
driving the little bus, the 23 -seater. So I
drove it for a couple of years and that was an
experience and a half because the kids used to
string me up the tree and then chop it down when
I got to the top. But one day when I was taking
the kids to school across Swamp Road, it was
flooded. And I got to the top of the hill, and
I could see it was flooded right across, and
I said to the kids, well, we're going to have
to turn around and go back through Shellhaven
Heads. And I was supposed to meet Bob at another
intersection. And I said, we won't do that, so
I'll probably have to take you to school. Oh,
no, you don't have to do that, Mrs. Kellett.
You just drive the bus through the water. And
I said, what? Oh, no, that's all you do. So we
got into the water. Luckily, I'd had experience
with water. And then we come. must have been
about a mile, and we got to a culvert. And then
they said, well, you'll have to stop here because,
Bob, we used to get us out to see if there were
planks on this little bridge. And I said, well,
there's no way you're getting out with me because
I'm not stopping. If one goes, we all go. I could
see out the front and I could see the planks
were all there, so I got across. Still had to
go to Bombardier. He got into Bombardier and
Bob said, where have you been? And I said, and
he said, I've never driven in the floodwater.
That was the first mistake. Not that it worried
Bob, but the kids. So I just had to think a lot
about what the kids were coming to tell me after
that. I'm a bit worried about what happened with
this tree. The tree? When they hung you up. Oh,
that's a joke. Oh, okay. They'd take you to the
top of the tree and chop it down. Well, that's
right. They've always got, they're playing with
you, aren't they? And then I drove the taxi for
Robert, for Bob for a while. Then his father
came back on and did a lot of it because I decided
that, well, his father was there driving and
I didn't need to. But I did, when we had the
bus, I did the high school kids run and then
I did the primary school kids run into Bury.
And then they had a taxi and I used to do it
in the taxi because the kids, the numbers went
down. So I don't know how many years I worked
for Bob. but it was a few, three or four or something.
So then I had my big truck licence. So then one
year when we were in Adelaide, a friend said,
who I'd helped for 17 years, said, when we go
to Melbourne this year, he had nobody else, only
Harry and I, I think. Well, you can drive the
truck because... I'll start off and I'll get
tired because it's a long way between Adelaide
and Melbourne and we do it in one day. So I actually
drove the truck twice, once going and once coming
back to where they lived at Mount Gambier. And
what are you carrying? Eight head of cattle.
Livestock. So then when I drove the bus for Uniting
Care, which was in about 2000, The first time
I drove that, the ladies in there or people in
the retirement village had never seen a lady
drive a bus. I backed into where we had to pick
them up. When I got in, they said, where have
you driven? And I said, oh, well, the last drive
was a truck between Melbourne and Adelaide or
something for a couple of hours with cattle on.
So the smart lady in the back seat said, moo.
So that's what I mean about people joking with
you. Been a bit smart. So then I drove that bus
for 20 years. I think I was 82 when I last drove
it. They paid you for that, didn't they? No,
I was a volunteer. Oh. I've only ever done volunteering
work. It's an extraordinary commitment. Whereabouts
in Shoalhaven did you live? Scott Street. You
were in town anyway and it was a different environment
from the farm because I'd never lived in town
really. This is at Shoalhaven Heads? This is
Shoalhaven Heads. And when you say town, you
mean Bury? No, just living in town. We've always
lived on a farm. We lived on a farm for probably
70 -odd years, I don't know. Yes. That was life
then, and I don't think people went and had a
cup of coffee with every Joe Blow around the
countryside when we were young, because we only
went to town once a week, probably. If we did
go to town, sometimes we had lunch in town. But
we didn't go to town like people do today. When
I first went to Shilhaven Heads, I heard a neighbour
said that, and I was playing tennis at the time,
well, she wasn't going to cook Friday night because
she never cooks Friday night. And I wondered
why, but apparently this is what townies did.
So I just had to... Not that I changed my times.
I still cooked, but I was just amused at the
way town people lived compared to what the country
people lived. And I think it's probably still
the same today. What about your tennis? Now,
you liked tennis. Oh, yes, I played tennis when
I was young. You've mentioned it, I think, yes.
What about at Shoalhaven Heads? What were you
doing there? I played tennis there too, but then
I went from tennis to hockey when I went to...
Farm Meadow, I decided to play hockey as a chain.
And then I had a season of cricket. I think I
had a season of basketball. And then I had quite
a few years playing touch football. And where's
all this happening? Oh, mainly in Bury, Shelhaven
Heads or Narra. Was it fun? Yes, we all enjoyed
ourselves. But I preferred touch football to
all the other sports. I think we played for a
Heads team and I played for a Narra team. About
your husband's illness, and he was 90. And he
had a stroke. He had a stroke at 90. Where? Here.
At home? Mm. And what happened? Did he call the
ambulance? Yes, because I knew straight away
that he'd had a stroke, luckily. So I called
the ambulance, and then in the next five years,
that was what probably came against him. But
when he was on the farm, he used to chaff up
dry hay, and I think the dry hay dust got in
his lungs. In his last six months, he had to
go on to oxygen. And then in the meantime, I
think in those last six months, something happened
in his stomach, and he was just too old for them
to put him through all sorts of things, so they
just let life do whatever it wanted to do. When
did your husband pass away? That was on the 19th
of December, 22. And where is he buried today?
His ashes are in the Bury Cemetery. And you had
a service for him? Yes, out at Wurruji. I didn't
count, but I was told there was about 300 there.
Plus it went online and that amount again was
added. Did you have a wake for him? Yes, just
reflections. I thought, because of his age, I
thought 50 people will come, but that didn't
happen, so we just, because we had the small
area, we couldn't do very much about it, but
a lot of people decided that there was too many
people there and went home. So that's fair enough.
This brings me to the end of Season 1. Episode
10. Thank you again Turf Co and McGoldrick's
Estate Agents for supporting me and my work this
season. This project that I have initiated receives
no government funding. A donate button has been
activated at my host podcast site rss .com. Simply
google the Dairy Lane Project should you want
to listen. All my podcasts will be hosted on
my own website as well. This project is my initiative
and my digital investment in the region, laying
foundations for future generations. At its completion,
it will be archived at Nowra Library through
their networks. I also offer my services to the
wider community. Have a look at my business section
at my website, theresesweeney .com .au. Feel
free to get in touch with me. I'm signing off
for now and thank you sincerely for tuning in
and supporting my work and the stories of incredible
people, the backbone of this region throughout
the 20th century. I have had a great time meeting
these farmers that are... how fortunate I am
to engage in the landscape. Take care.