WEBVTT

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Hello, my name's Therese Sweeney. Welcome to

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my podcast, Therese Makes History. Season 1,

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The Dairy Lane Project. Today, Episode 7. This

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project is assisted by Turf Co. in Jaspers Brush,

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operating for 40 years and the largest agricultural

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employer in the region. Thank you, Gavin Rogers.

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I've also secured support. from McGoldrick Real

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Estate, operated and owned by Tim McGoldrick

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and family. They've been in Bury since 1987.

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Tim specialises in lifestyle properties, homesteads,

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cottages and homes in the region. Your support

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is appreciated, Tim and Gavin, toward this important

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digital history archive. Dairying was the primary

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industry throughout the Shoalhaven in the 20th

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century. In Season 1 to date, I've been engaging

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descendants of pioneers in the lanes, named in

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their honour, throughout Maroo Meadow. Dairy

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people, residents now ageing who carry the memories

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of their pioneering relatives and reflect on

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their own farming lives. I've gone a bit rogue

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this episode. I've discovered a terribly important

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family that have migrated all the way from Norway.

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Their story is dairy related and it needs telling.

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It's an important piece of this puzzle we're

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putting together. Hans Jorgensen, S -O -N is

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the last three letters, was a sailor who travelled

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around the world from the mid -19th century.

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He jumped ship on a boat to Australia and arrived

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in 1879 from England. He eventually settled at

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La Hogue in Robertson in the Southern Highlands.

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He married Harriet Mansfield in 1883. They had

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eight children, four boys and four girls. Hans

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stayed living in Robertson. One of their sons,

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known as Bert, who was born in 1893, went to

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school with Gus Miller's dad, William, at Robertson.

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Perhaps this may have influenced Bert's move

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to Bury. Bert left Robertson with two bullocks

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named Nobby and Comet and a dray. He came skidding

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down Bury Mountain. as he'd taken the wheels

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off the axis of the dray because it was so steep

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and he didn't want to lose the bullocks. That's

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how he arrived in Bury. The Miller family became

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his adopted family and they became close with

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the Jorgensen family to this very day. They took

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Bert under their wing. Bert became well known

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and was a clever businessman. He ran a big bullock

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team. and carted logs to the mills. He'd load

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up down at the railway. Bert is responsible for

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putting up all the power poles in Bury. He did

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this physically himself with the bullocks. He

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made a considerable amount of money digging out

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cedar stumps, roots and all. He'd then sell them

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off to Sydney. Furniture makers would slice them

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up, veneer them for furniture. played rugby for

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the Berry All Blacks before World War One. He

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then switched to rugby league for the Berry Magpies

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during World War One. Rumour has it he kept his

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first milk check and he's still looking for the

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five dollars he lost down the main street. Apparently

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someone picked it up and was shouting everyone

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at the pub. He wasn't too happy about it when

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he found out. So now I bring you to episode seven.

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The Jorgensons buried a Bomber Dairy. Today I'm

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interviewing Ian Jorgensen who grew up in Bomber

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Dairy and worked in the dairy industry from age

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17. Hi Ian, how are you today? Thanks for joining

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me here. Thanks Therese, thanks for having me

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and I want to thank you for doing this podcast

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because you know you go back into your memory,

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your mind, you think of Your memory has been

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a bit of a hard drive. Well, unfortunately, I

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was born before hard drives were invented. We

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go back to probably books. So with listening

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to your podcast, I've gone in and I've found

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these old dusty books that are in my mind. And

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the minute I opened it up, it turned colourful

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and it brought back great memories of the dairy

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farms, the farmers. My early years as a little

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kid and bomber, bombatory, which we like to call

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a bomber. So tell me, Ian, what is your year

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of birth and where were you born? Yeah, 1959.

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Yeah, I was born up in Junction Street. It's

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now the Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation Centre

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called Oolong House. And yeah, that's where I

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was born. So you were born at Oolong House. What

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was it prior to Oolong? It was a hospital, a

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maternity section, I think, there for women to

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go and have their... Do you have siblings? Yeah,

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I have a brother, Barry. He's six years older

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than me. We're very close, which is great. And

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your parents' full names, and do you know their

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year of birth? It's Norman Albert Jorgensen was

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my dad, and Grace Elizabeth Wallace. No, I don't

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know their full dates of birth. Are they still

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alive? No, unfortunately, my mum passed away

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a couple of years ago, and my dad, I think, around

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15 years ago, and I miss them dearly. Yes. How

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do you spell your last name? J -O -R -G -E -N

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-S -O -N, which is unusual because most Norwegians

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spell their name S -E -N. How far back? Because

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I come across your name quite a bit. So how far

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back is your family connection to this region?

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It was the late 1800s when my great -grandfather

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turned up in Sydney. He was a Norwegian seaman.

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and worked on merchant ships and the story I've

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been told that I think basically around about

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13 years old he worked on ships and he'd been

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around the world two or three times. He came

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back I think when he was in his teens and saw

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his mother for the last time and he gave her

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a China doll from China. Set sail, never to return

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back to Stavanger in Norway. Got to Australia.

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The story is could have jumped ship. Probably

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not. Apparently he got on well with the captain,

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decided he wanted to make a new life in Australia.

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And that's so his family had never heard of him

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or they didn't know what happened to him. And

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basically he disappeared. Cousin, Elaine King,

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who was researching the family, and she didn't

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know really a lot about Hans just other than

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he'd come from Stavanger. So she wrote some letters

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to the local newspaper. And when she wrote, the

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newspaper did a story on it. There was no response.

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When was that? Do you know? Oh, that would have

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been in the 70s. And when you say a local newspaper,

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what newspaper? Oh, the newspaper in the Stavanger.

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OK, one of my relatives from Norway went to the

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shop. And as you know, and sometimes you buy

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drinks and cold things, they'll wrap something

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up in newspaper. So she went home to the rest

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of the family and I'm just talking in the kitchen.

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And while I was talking, this relative of mine

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was unwrapping this and she was reading. the

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newspaper, and she said, we've found Hans. And

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the rest of the family said, what do you mean?

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And she said, he's in Australia. So, yeah, we

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had a family connection then. A heap of Norwegian

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visitors actually embalmed her and buried. When

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was that? Oh, that was 1980. It was so funny

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because they were coming to our winter and they

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all had fur coats on and these coats were...

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Unbelievable. They were full on like bear coats,

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I don't know, furs. But they couldn't believe

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our winter that we had flowers. My cousin has

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been over there, both my cousins, my wife and

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I have been to Stavanger and went to the old

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town. It's beautiful, beautiful. And your two

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cousins, what are their names that you reference?

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Elaine King and Alan Hitchcock. So Elaine and

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Alan are brother and sister. And Elaine was a

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Hitchcock. That's correct. And married a king.

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That's the way, yeah. So is that king a farmer?

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No. What did they think of the place, your Norwegian

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relatives? Just briefly, what did they think

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of the landscape? Oh, they loved it. And the

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main thing was that they couldn't believe, you

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know, my mother was an avid gardener with flowers.

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Yeah, they loved it. The flowers out in winter

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and, you know, basically it was like their summer.

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And the coastline. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

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Would have blown their mind. Yeah, yeah. Although,

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you know, they were travellers themselves. Some

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of their parts of the family, they lived in Canada

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and different parts of the world. So, yeah, no,

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it was wonderful. And it was wonderful for Rhonda

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and myself to go to Stavanger. I just couldn't

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believe how beautiful Norway is. So we'll just...

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Briefly, you mentioned Rhonda. So Rhonda is your

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wife. What's her former name? She's a Neville.

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They moved to Nowra from around the 1960s, so

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not really local people. Sydney, they were around

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the Canterbury area, went out west and out around

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Booroa and then came back down and settled in

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Nowra. In a house or a farm? Just in a house.

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And what about your children? Do you have children?

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Yeah, I have two. I've got Matthew, my oldest

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boy. He lives in Sydney and works in the field

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of research, which has more to do with business

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and advertising. And my youngest son, Dylan,

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who runs our business. Just getting back to Hans.

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So when did Hans arrive and do you know the boat

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or ship? He arrived in 1879. Ended up in Robeson.

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He met his wife, Harriet Mansfield. They had

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farms and properties, I believe. And how he ended

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up actually in Bury and down this way, I'm not

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sure. Was he the beginning of the lineage here?

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Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. Yeah, yeah.

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He was mainly involved in, you know, labouring

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type work. I believe the whole South Coast was.

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timber so they were cutting trees you know out

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around Harley Hill and down down in the Shellhaven

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area so yeah a lot of people worked in the timber

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industry or the dairy industry. Because I've

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seen an old bullet whip I think that was at Berry

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Museum they put a picture out and they had his

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name I think attached to it. Yeah no that was

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his son. Bertel Jorgensen, he was known in Bury

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as Bert or Nobby Jorgensen. He was one of the

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local identities. He would become quite successful.

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He bought a lot of properties. He made a lot

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of money with his bullet team. It was right up

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until just before he passed away, I took him,

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he had a farm up at Berry Mountain. And I took

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him up to the farm there and he could still,

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we left our car, walked across the paddocks.

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It was a beautiful farm. It overlooked Kangaroo

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Valley. And he, it was on Irvine's Lane. And

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he whistled and... To my amazement, all these

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bullocks ran out of the bush over to him. He

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was a bullock driver. How old would he have been

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when that happened? He would have been well into

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his late 80s, yeah. And when did he pass? Yeah,

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not long after that. How many children did Hans

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have? I've got the list there and I'm thinking

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around about four or five, yeah. Are there any

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more stories relating to Hans or his children

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that you recall? No, no, not really. The only

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person really I had anything to do was Bert.

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And we all had a fairly close relationship with

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the Jorgensen. So, yeah, no, it was good. I used

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to come over with my parents and visit him and,

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yeah. Because there's a few Jorgensons around,

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aren't there, still today. So you went to a funeral

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recently. My cousin. Okay. Yeah. So let's just

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briefly talk about that person because that person

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made quite a contribution, I think, from what

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I gathered. Yeah, he was a great guy. What was

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his name? Yeah, he was, I think, only about a

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month different in age from my brother. So he

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was quite young when he passed away. John was

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a builder. An absolutely great guy, well -known

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in the Bury and Shelavon area. He was involved

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in horses, you know, and he also showed dogs.

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He was a very, very good builder. He built luxury

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homes, and I actually was lucky enough to do

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some jobs with him. Unfortunately, he developed

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a dementia type. disease young, I think he would

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have been probably only around late 50s, early

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60s and unfortunately he passed away from that

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disease and his father was my father's brother

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and they worked at the Narra Dairy Company for

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a combined years, probably 100 years between

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them. Let's talk about your father and his siblings

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as well. So he's got that brother. Yeah, he has.

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He's got his brother, Bill, and then he had sisters.

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They all got married. A lot of them did to local

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farmers. Nellie, she was married to a Turner.

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Edna to a Turner. Rainy to a Vaughan, Vaughan's

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farm, which is next to Pat Muller's farm. Rita,

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she was married to a Buchan, who was a mechanic.

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So where's the Hitchcock name come in? The one

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I forgot, Aunty Eileen, she was a lovely lady.

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Aunty Eileen, she was married to Tom Hitchcock.

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So Tom Hitchcock, I believe, was the son of Tom

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Hitchcock, who was the farmer who had the property

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out there at Maroo, where I think you'd spoke

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to Pat Muller about the Maroo Hall was on Tom

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Hitchcock's farm. Dad and Uncle Billy, they both

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previously left school when they were quite young

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and they worked on... their sisters' husbands'

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farms. Then eventually they got jobs at the Narra

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Dairy Co -op and, yeah, they worked there for

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a combined 50, roughly around 50 years each there.

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Now, their jobs... And when did they start there,

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do you know, roughly? No, they would have been...

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Well, I know my dad was in his early teens. And

00:16:15.500 --> 00:16:17.200
across the road from the dairy factory, there

00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:21.379
was a place called the Casein Factory. Now, casein,

00:16:21.379 --> 00:16:23.559
I think, I believe, is something to do with starch

00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:26.259
or bread. But all I remember as a little kid,

00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:28.960
it used to stink and I used to hate the place.

00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:31.580
An interesting story, my dad would have been

00:16:31.580 --> 00:16:35.279
probably there when he was about 13, 14. And

00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:39.299
then eventually, it was hard, hard work. The

00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:43.350
bosses were... In those days, quite unfair. Even

00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:46.269
some of the staff that worked there, the older

00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:50.809
men, were somewhat bullies to the kids. Anyway,

00:16:50.950 --> 00:16:53.730
one day a guy turned up and he said, I'm from

00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:59.769
the union. And he spoke to my dad about the working

00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:03.789
conditions. So my dad joined the union. So that

00:17:03.789 --> 00:17:07.319
lasted one day and he was instantly sacked. The

00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.339
funny part about it, which it's amazing now when

00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:12.259
you think about it, you know, imagine a young

00:17:12.259 --> 00:17:15.640
boy going through this in, say, the 1940s around

00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:22.480
the wartime. The union took his employer to court.

00:17:23.059 --> 00:17:27.619
So my dad, as a young boy, went to court and

00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:31.480
he was instantly reinstated. And he stayed there

00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.480
for 50 years. Yeah, he stayed there and the conditions

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.599
changed, of course. It ended up being a wonderful

00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:42.099
place to work. The Narra Derry Company, you know,

00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.640
as time went on, probably with the involvement

00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.579
in the unions in those days, conditions got better.

00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:53.960
And, yeah, they were a wonderful employer to

00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.339
him. It says something about your father, though,

00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:00.319
the courage to stay and to commit. Oh, I was,

00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.700
yeah, I couldn't believe. And putting yourself

00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:06.140
in that place, I don't think I could have done

00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:09.779
what he did and, you know, to have that strength

00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:13.059
to join the union, to be sacked and then go to

00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:15.420
court and come back. And, yeah, it's unbelievable.

00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:18.680
Where was it actually located, the Narra Co -op?

00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:21.940
Yeah, in Bomaduri. I don't think anyone liked

00:18:21.940 --> 00:18:24.099
it being called the Narra Co -op, that in Bomaduri.

00:18:25.180 --> 00:18:29.339
We had this thing between... Bombardier and Narra.

00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:32.259
What was that? Look, we were probably the poor

00:18:32.259 --> 00:18:34.960
cousins to Narra, Bombardier in those days. If

00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:37.160
my dad had his way, and he mentioned it plenty

00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.000
of times, that he would have cut down the Narra

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.930
Bridge because he always believed that... The

00:18:43.930 --> 00:18:45.849
people in Narra starved with albuminary because

00:18:45.849 --> 00:18:47.710
we had the milk factory, we had the paper mill

00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:50.349
and we had, you know, probably better ground,

00:18:50.369 --> 00:18:52.490
you know, for growing veggies and that sort of

00:18:52.490 --> 00:18:56.349
thing. Oh, he was so upset when eventually Illaroo

00:18:56.349 --> 00:19:00.069
Road was always called Illaroo Road. They decided

00:19:00.069 --> 00:19:03.849
that Illaroo Road might be better off named North

00:19:03.849 --> 00:19:07.410
Narra. And my father was livid. He had that many

00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:10.789
fights. He couldn't... You know, he was just...

00:19:10.789 --> 00:19:13.009
Because the way he worked it out was the middle

00:19:13.009 --> 00:19:15.450
of the bridge, the south side was Nara, we owned

00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:19.930
the north side. That was Bommer. So he said that

00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:24.049
Illu Road belonged to Bommer. And he was not

00:19:24.049 --> 00:19:27.210
very happy when it was named North Nara. When

00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:29.309
you say they worked on their brother -in -law's...

00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:32.390
What were they doing there? Was that pre -mechanisation?

00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.789
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were horses and ploughs

00:19:35.789 --> 00:19:38.769
and Kangaroo Valley in the winter. And, yeah,

00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:42.269
it was really, really tough and hard. Who owned

00:19:42.269 --> 00:19:44.490
that property at Kangaroo Valley? It would have

00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:49.240
been the Turners. Yeah, Edna's or Nellie. Yeah,

00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.160
they were brothers too, yeah. Who was the turner,

00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.319
do you know? Yeah, Harry and Ernie. They were

00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.259
grading milk, were they, the two brothers? Yeah,

00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.200
that's correct. They were both milk graders.

00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.220
Yeah, it was a qualification. Dad could, by lifting

00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:06.839
a milk can lid, could smell or taste and pretty

00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.700
well know, he could work out what, especially

00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:11.539
if it was a bit of a strong taste, he could work

00:20:11.539 --> 00:20:14.059
out what the cattle had been eating. Sometimes...

00:20:14.730 --> 00:20:17.130
there'd be employees of the factory would say,

00:20:17.230 --> 00:20:20.589
oh, this milk has to be thrown out, it's off.

00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:23.230
Call my dad in or Uncle Billy and they'd taste

00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:24.950
it and they'd say, no, no, they've just been

00:20:24.950 --> 00:20:28.029
on carrot weed or some sort of weed and it has

00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:31.589
tainted the taste, but the milk is still good.

00:20:31.829 --> 00:20:34.309
Where were they positioned in the factory? Like

00:20:34.309 --> 00:20:36.650
pretty much on arrival or was it at the railway?

00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:39.970
No, they, yeah, what happened, the trucks used

00:20:39.970 --> 00:20:42.710
to pull up. and, you know, people like Henry

00:20:42.710 --> 00:20:44.970
Werder and different people would unload the

00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:47.109
trucks and they had this chain conveyor belt

00:20:47.109 --> 00:20:50.970
and they used to take the cans up. My dad and

00:20:50.970 --> 00:20:52.950
Uncle Billy would be standing up there and it

00:20:52.950 --> 00:20:56.650
was a huge scale. So the cans had already been

00:20:56.650 --> 00:20:59.549
opened by usually someone like Henry, Henry Werder,

00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:03.329
and then they'd tip the milk into these big vats

00:21:03.329 --> 00:21:06.509
and that was a scale. So they'd weigh the milk

00:21:06.509 --> 00:21:09.809
and then they'd record that on a sheet of paper.

00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:12.700
But before they tipped it, they'd always smell

00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:16.519
the milk and make sure it was okay. And after

00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:21.099
all those, that farmer's cans were put through

00:21:21.099 --> 00:21:26.539
the scales, the milk was released and it went

00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:29.039
through the system. And they could always tell

00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.599
the farmer's cans because they were all decorated.

00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.400
And some farmers went to a lot of trouble. They

00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.039
used to either paint... different coloured bands

00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:44.079
around. Some would have coins soldered to it

00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.279
and polished. A lot of farmers were really proud

00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.359
about their milk cans and that was the way they

00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.599
identified them. What were they weighing for?

00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:54.319
Is it the fat? No, weighing the milk in quality.

00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.359
So in other words, a litre of liquid is one kilo

00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.099
or in those days would have been so many pounds.

00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.839
After putting, say, 23 cans through, it would

00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.730
be so many pounds. It'd be written down on a,

00:22:05.849 --> 00:22:08.430
they had these pencils, and it was a huge pad.

00:22:09.410 --> 00:22:11.710
When you say huge, because you're little, when

00:22:11.710 --> 00:22:14.329
you're looking at this. It was probably something

00:22:14.329 --> 00:22:20.930
around a metre long. Record book. Yeah, big record

00:22:20.930 --> 00:22:24.529
book, yeah. So when, at the end of the day, they

00:22:24.529 --> 00:22:26.589
were taken to the office, and that's how the

00:22:26.589 --> 00:22:29.730
farmers were paid, off those shoots. Was there

00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:32.940
only two milk graders? Yeah, I'm not too sure,

00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:35.299
but I knew Dad had the qualification. I'm sure

00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:37.619
there were some other guys there that had it

00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:40.019
too, and I suppose as long as they had someone

00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:43.720
there with that qualification, yeah. We'll get

00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.299
back to the milk factory because it was really

00:22:46.299 --> 00:22:50.240
highly regarded, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a wonderful

00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.779
milk factory, and the produce that they produced

00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:56.619
there, you know, the butter was very of high

00:22:56.619 --> 00:22:59.450
quality. Now, who was making the butter? You'd

00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:02.109
see men churning these. Tell me about what that

00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.230
looked like. Yeah, well, when I was little, and

00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:07.349
again, you wouldn't be allowed to do it, but

00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:11.650
I was probably around five years old and I'd

00:23:11.650 --> 00:23:13.509
have free reign at the whole milk factory. So

00:23:13.509 --> 00:23:15.730
I knew everyone that worked there and I used

00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:18.069
to wander, you know, I'd wander down and into

00:23:18.069 --> 00:23:22.109
the butter area and I used to love watching the

00:23:22.109 --> 00:23:24.809
big butter churn turn and then it was on a big

00:23:24.809 --> 00:23:28.849
table and it was a huge block. four or five meters

00:23:28.849 --> 00:23:34.529
long by probably two meters high and then they'd

00:23:34.529 --> 00:23:37.289
have these big stainless steel wires with handles

00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:39.970
on it then they a man on each side and they pull

00:23:39.970 --> 00:23:41.750
these handles through the butter and that would

00:23:41.750 --> 00:23:44.829
cut the butter and then they would make it into

00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:48.990
large cubes that probably 20 kilo cubes and then

00:23:48.990 --> 00:23:51.049
they could they would drop that into the machine

00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:53.849
and that machine then would cut the butter into

00:23:53.849 --> 00:23:57.000
size It would run along and put the Narra Derry

00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.440
Co -op label on it. I think when I was there,

00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.920
there was a guy called Robert Everson. I think

00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.819
Robert was the boss of that section. Again, because

00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:10.640
of the quality, Robert had had agricultural -type

00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.220
training, so he had that qualification. Yeah,

00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:16.380
they were cardboard boxes when I was small. All

00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:19.559
the boxes, they were... Conveyor belt. Conveyor

00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.619
belt. And then the guys would put a box together

00:24:21.619 --> 00:24:24.019
and stack the box in me, the butter, and manually.

00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.140
There was machinery in there to actually cut

00:24:27.140 --> 00:24:30.640
the butter into size and wrap it. A lot of the

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.960
steam -driven equipment was still in the milk

00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:39.119
factory, but it wasn't used. There was a main

00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:41.039
drive that went through the factory, which was

00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:45.500
a great big metal bar, and it had pulleys off

00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:48.480
it. Now, that would have been, that was probably

00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.900
before the war. But they were still using two

00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:59.140
coal boilers there. Because of cleanliness, they

00:24:59.140 --> 00:25:03.480
used a lot of hot water and steam. My uncle,

00:25:03.619 --> 00:25:08.140
Tom Hitchcock, he was in charge of that, in charge

00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:11.160
of those boilers. And he had an off -sider called

00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.519
Mike Wensick. And again, he was Polish like Henry

00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.440
Werder. They were responsible for all the mechanical

00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:20.680
stuff because mainly things were mechanical.

00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.680
And then there was an electrical side, of course.

00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.599
Do you call them boiler makers? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:28.480
they would have been. I don't know if they had

00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.559
that qualification, but basically they were boiler

00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.839
makers. And I used to love going out there because

00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:38.779
Uncle Tom and Mike were quite often, if I got

00:25:38.779 --> 00:25:41.200
there at the right time, they used to shovel

00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.440
the coal with these very wide -bladed shovels.

00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.240
Then every now and then, every day, they would

00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.559
cook their meals on these shovels, and it was

00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.920
great. They'd have the fire open and these shovels

00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:56.359
in there with their bits of steak and tomatoes

00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.000
and eggs, anything you could cook. But I was

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.380
always amazed, and I used to love watching. Will

00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:05.779
we go to bottles? Oh, yeah. No, the bottles were

00:26:05.779 --> 00:26:10.480
fine. As you know, all out through the... 50s,

00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:13.519
60s, everything came in bottles. They had a section

00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:16.619
there where the bottles were brought back in.

00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:19.299
There was old bottles and new bottles. Old bottles

00:26:19.299 --> 00:26:22.500
were washed, new bottles were put in, and they

00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.500
had this bottling plant. So it was mechanised.

00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:27.720
It was quite modern. The bottles would go along,

00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.839
the right amount of milk or pint or whatever

00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:33.119
would go in, and then they were capped, and then

00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.480
they were put in cool rooms or taken out to the

00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:40.250
vendors. Tell us about the caps. Yeah, the foil

00:26:40.250 --> 00:26:45.609
caps, it was on a great roll, and they had different

00:26:45.609 --> 00:26:48.410
colours. There was only one milk then, it was

00:26:48.410 --> 00:26:51.049
milk. They didn't have all the different types

00:26:51.049 --> 00:26:53.630
in those days, but they had different caps for

00:26:53.630 --> 00:26:56.630
cream, so they were in bottles as well, probably

00:26:56.630 --> 00:26:59.630
half -pint bottles. The wonderful thing about

00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:03.680
these... The material, which was a coloured foil,

00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.299
brightly coloured foil. All the kids of our parents

00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:10.839
that worked there, we used to get the old rolls.

00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.519
And then it was, as you can imagine, like a 50

00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:19.000
cent circular cutout on these foils. And again,

00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.500
like I said, in those times they were fairly

00:27:21.500 --> 00:27:24.440
tough. So we would take them to our schools and

00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:26.940
they'd decorate the schools with the offcuts.

00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.799
from the mill caps for Christmas. So all the

00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:35.440
classrooms had all these Narra Derry Co -op foil

00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.339
cutouts in different colours and gave us a bit

00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:42.880
of a Christmas feel to our December at school.

00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:46.160
And what colours were they? Red was the one that

00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.940
really stuck out to me, and I think with cream

00:27:49.940 --> 00:27:51.720
it could have been yellow or green, I'm not too

00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:54.640
sure. Silver? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, you're a

00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.210
young boy. Walking around Bombardieri, roaming

00:27:58.210 --> 00:28:01.029
around, because we had a lot of freedom. It was

00:28:01.029 --> 00:28:03.910
not like today, you know. You had a lot of freedom

00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:06.630
to explore in those factories. They kept an eye

00:28:06.630 --> 00:28:10.049
on you, but you knew the way it all operated.

00:28:10.630 --> 00:28:13.029
Yeah, I probably started when I was about five,

00:28:13.109 --> 00:28:17.630
walking down, and I know my... Uncle Billy's

00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:21.910
kids did it as well, you know. So let's explore

00:28:21.910 --> 00:28:24.170
that in detail. Tell me about your walk and where

00:28:24.170 --> 00:28:26.910
you went from your house to. Yeah, so we were

00:28:26.910 --> 00:28:28.869
brought up in Dalbar Street, which is two streets

00:28:28.869 --> 00:28:31.650
behind the main street in Bometary, and I'd walk

00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:36.049
down to the corner and then along, I think it's

00:28:36.049 --> 00:28:39.109
Talleyang Street, a bit like one of your previous

00:28:39.109 --> 00:28:42.190
speakers. We didn't know streets in those days.

00:28:42.230 --> 00:28:46.079
We just knew where everyone lived. So, yeah,

00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:49.299
and then I'd walk down past Donnie Sparratt's

00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:53.559
pub and I used to eye off all the old spirit

00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:55.940
bottles because they were all empty, of course,

00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:58.099
out in the yard, but I used to love all these

00:28:58.099 --> 00:29:02.420
colours. And Don used to drive a Rambler and

00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:04.259
that was a flash car because not many people

00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:06.960
had cars in those days. And I'd walk past and

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.180
I always saw him. He was always neatly dressed

00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:12.160
and he had this neatly groomed moustache, but

00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:16.579
he'd always say hello to me. I'd cross Maroo

00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:18.900
Street, which was the main street, and then I'd

00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.519
walk down a bit of a hill near the... There was

00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.839
a water tower there for filling up the steam

00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:26.099
engines then. It was still there, and they were

00:29:26.099 --> 00:29:28.980
still using the steam shunters. And then I'd

00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.059
wander across. I'd have a look, because Dad always

00:29:31.059 --> 00:29:33.839
said, watch out for trains, and I'd walk across

00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.759
about 10 lots of railway lines, and there was

00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:39.660
a little metal ladder. I'd climb up there past

00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:42.930
the produce. The produce store was... which used

00:29:42.930 --> 00:29:45.529
to hold the hay, the grain and that for the farmers.

00:29:45.690 --> 00:29:47.509
So that was the other part of the narrow dairy

00:29:47.509 --> 00:29:50.410
company business, co -op business. And then I'd

00:29:50.410 --> 00:29:53.690
walk down into the milk factory and I used to

00:29:53.690 --> 00:29:56.069
do that quite often and just say hello to the

00:29:56.069 --> 00:29:59.390
workers on my way. And they used to smile and

00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:03.099
it was a wonderful time. And was that on your

00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:05.880
way to school or on the weekends? No, I don't

00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.940
think I probably wasn't at school then. So, yeah,

00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:12.119
so it was probably before I was at school. Probably

00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.700
one of the most memorable memories I had when

00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:18.680
I was probably about four. Barry's my brother.

00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:20.279
He's six years older than me, so he would have

00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:24.359
been ten. He took me down up the other way, which

00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:28.339
is what I'd call north of Dawa Street, into Bumberra

00:30:28.339 --> 00:30:31.940
Street, down past the old Bumberra RSL. and down

00:30:31.940 --> 00:30:34.900
to the train line, to the train station. And

00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:38.200
on one particular day, the circus was coming

00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.539
to town. I've still got vivid memories. And to

00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:46.720
see the open rail trucks with the elephants on

00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.339
them, the elephants were just chained onto the

00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:53.680
rail trucks. Then they somehow must have came

00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:57.140
on the... southern end of the railway station

00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:59.460
there at Bombardier, they'd coax the elephants

00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:02.039
off. All the animals that you didn't want to

00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:07.039
get near were in these big vans, which again

00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.900
would have been on rail trucks. And I'm assuming

00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:12.619
they were lifted off. They had this really, really

00:31:12.619 --> 00:31:15.799
old, wild -looking crane at the railway station

00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:17.940
then. I think it was even hand -driven, I don't

00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:20.900
know. They would have pulled these carts off.

00:31:21.309 --> 00:31:23.190
The part I had forgotten about, my brother told

00:31:23.190 --> 00:31:25.730
me, they'd actually hook the elephants up, pull

00:31:25.730 --> 00:31:30.750
these trailers over from Bomaduri, cross the

00:31:30.750 --> 00:31:35.190
bridge, and near the swimming pool, I do remember

00:31:35.190 --> 00:31:38.529
they used to, a lot of times they'd unhook the

00:31:38.529 --> 00:31:40.990
elephants and they'd put the elephants in the

00:31:40.990 --> 00:31:43.289
river there, give them a wash and a cool down,

00:31:43.529 --> 00:31:47.650
and they'd walk their way up to the recreation

00:31:47.650 --> 00:31:50.460
park up near the hospital. and they'd be there

00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:53.299
for a few weeks and doing their shows. But also

00:31:53.299 --> 00:31:56.680
to... So getting across the bridge with the elephants

00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.019
and the traffic would have stopped traffic. Yeah,

00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.339
probably not a lot in those days. Yeah, it's

00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:04.700
funny. People don't understand they're up. People

00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:07.579
couldn't afford cars. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,

00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:09.980
look, it would have been a minor inconvenience.

00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.559
I know there is a famous story about the elephant

00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:14.539
that laid down in the middle of the narrow bridge

00:32:14.539 --> 00:32:17.400
and they couldn't get up. I wasn't sure what

00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:19.920
year or when that happened, but, yeah, it did

00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.819
happen. They decided that this is it. I've had

00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:25.980
enough. Yeah, I've had enough. I'm stopping for

00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:29.700
a while. And also, too, it would be hard for

00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:32.900
people to understand or believe. Bombardier was

00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:38.539
actually black. So the railway station, all the

00:32:38.539 --> 00:32:44.700
shops, a few streets back, it looked horrible.

00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:49.119
Now, the black was from the soot from the shutters

00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.769
of the steam trains. All the carriages and everything

00:32:52.769 --> 00:32:56.809
used to come by train in those days, except for

00:32:56.809 --> 00:33:00.109
the only diesel engines in those days were the

00:33:00.109 --> 00:33:02.829
trains that took people to Sydney. It was the

00:33:02.829 --> 00:33:05.650
Red Rattler, then that was replaced later with

00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:08.230
the Silver Train, they used to call it. Bombardier

00:33:08.230 --> 00:33:11.750
just had this really, I can still remember this

00:33:11.750 --> 00:33:14.569
dark look, all the shops because of this soot.

00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:19.359
And then when they slowly changed over to full

00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.680
diesel, you could see it. It was just like someone

00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.599
was washing the town slowly and all the colours

00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:29.819
came out. The old timber verandas that used to

00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:31.819
run along, it was a bit like the Western. You

00:33:31.819 --> 00:33:33.660
know, you had the old timber verandas with the

00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:38.240
old verandas out the top and, sorry, the timber

00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.619
floor walkways and that. They were slowly replaced

00:33:41.619 --> 00:33:45.690
by the council into concrete. And so bombadery

00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:50.990
actually started to change. Yes, that's a lot

00:33:50.990 --> 00:33:54.789
of change. Tell me about, like, so the milk cans

00:33:54.789 --> 00:33:58.210
going to Sydney on the trains, what did that

00:33:58.210 --> 00:34:02.849
look like? Well, no, they were in great tanks.

00:34:02.910 --> 00:34:08.170
So once they were rail cars or carts or they

00:34:08.170 --> 00:34:11.019
were like a huge... tank stainless steel they

00:34:11.019 --> 00:34:12.880
looked horrible on the outside they were all

00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:15.579
black and horrible but when you used to you'd

00:34:15.579 --> 00:34:17.559
lift the lid up they were full stainless steel

00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.340
inside so the milk was um this is the excess

00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:25.360
milk sometimes was still uh so they used to use

00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.559
a lot of the milk in narrow because it was sold

00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.519
locally into our milk bottles and whatever and

00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:34.900
then they would send some milk away and they

00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:38.389
would send that in these rail carts and they

00:34:38.389 --> 00:34:40.030
used to travel, I think, in the early hours of

00:34:40.030 --> 00:34:42.190
the morning. I'm not too sure. And they're going

00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:45.190
to the Sydney factories? Oh, yes, yeah. At Ultramobile

00:34:45.190 --> 00:34:46.650
or wherever it might have been? Yeah, that's

00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:48.969
correct, yeah. So all your milk bottles at school,

00:34:49.030 --> 00:34:51.150
you had milk? Yeah, we used to have that horrible

00:34:51.150 --> 00:34:54.630
hot milk. It used to turn up unrefrigerated and

00:34:54.630 --> 00:34:58.269
we were forced to drink it. I used to do everything

00:34:58.269 --> 00:35:01.690
I could to get away from it because it turned

00:35:01.690 --> 00:35:05.280
me off milk forever. It was disgusting. You mentioned

00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.920
flavoured milk too. They'd give you some flavoured

00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:10.800
milk. Ah, yeah, yeah, well, you know, touring

00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.659
the factory and quite often I'd be down in the

00:35:13.659 --> 00:35:16.159
butter room and Robert Everson or one of the

00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:19.460
employees, they, and again, wonderful people,

00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.880
and they'd go over to one of the cool rooms and

00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.380
ask me, you know, whether I want a chocolate

00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:29.480
or a malt or a strawberry milk and, yeah, they'd

00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.170
give me one of these. half -point cartons or

00:35:32.170 --> 00:35:35.510
whatever they were. And, yeah, they used to really

00:35:35.510 --> 00:35:37.809
look after us. They were a wonderful group of

00:35:37.809 --> 00:35:41.429
men. What were they wearing? Were different uniforms

00:35:41.429 --> 00:35:46.369
different jobs? No, no. Dairy Factory was always

00:35:46.369 --> 00:35:49.420
white. So they used to wear white overalls, white

00:35:49.420 --> 00:35:53.760
aprons and white caps and little cotton gumboots.

00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:55.420
Yeah, they were all dressed in white, except

00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.980
the management. But, yeah, that was the way.

00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.300
Everything had to be kept clean and spotless,

00:36:01.300 --> 00:36:04.420
and it was. What about the management? Do you

00:36:04.420 --> 00:36:07.199
recall any of the managers? Did you meet any?

00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:11.360
I knew a bit. He was the foreman, a guy called

00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.739
Kevin Shiver. He was there many, many years.

00:36:14.019 --> 00:36:15.940
Management was different in those days. There

00:36:15.940 --> 00:36:20.260
was a guy called Bob Graham and even the employees

00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:23.960
called him Mr Graham. Now, Mr Graham was over

00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.420
in another office and he used to have a full

00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:30.360
-time secretary who was always well -groomed.

00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.840
He had a big flash car. It was a different time

00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:39.340
in those days where... Yeah, if you were in senior

00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:42.699
management, you were well respected or not, but...

00:36:42.699 --> 00:36:45.360
There was a status. Oh, definitely a status,

00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:47.940
yeah, yeah. That was, like I said, they always

00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:51.500
had a big flash of a car and... But all the dairy

00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:54.360
farmers were the shareholders, yeah? That's correct,

00:36:54.619 --> 00:36:57.840
yeah, yeah. And it worked really, really, really

00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.659
well. A lot of successful farmers. I can mention

00:37:01.659 --> 00:37:05.099
many, many names of these farmers and they were

00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:08.079
well respected. And the Narra Dairy Company was

00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:10.900
very, very successful. You look at other co -ops,

00:37:11.019 --> 00:37:15.559
for example, like Bega. Now, if you go to Bega,

00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:17.739
if they didn't do their job better than anyone

00:37:17.739 --> 00:37:22.329
else, you would not hear of Bega cheese. And

00:37:22.329 --> 00:37:25.429
Bega's probably the great success story. But

00:37:25.429 --> 00:37:27.630
they had to be because they were isolated. They

00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:30.369
were isolated from Victoria and Sydney. So to

00:37:30.369 --> 00:37:33.670
produce milk and Bega, you had to be better than

00:37:33.670 --> 00:37:36.590
everyone else. And Bega is. And still today,

00:37:36.809 --> 00:37:41.730
Bega owns Kraft. And I'm really pleased. I think

00:37:41.730 --> 00:37:44.670
they own the Dairy Farmers label, which is wonderful.

00:37:45.469 --> 00:37:47.690
Extraordinary. Yeah, them and Norco. And Norco's

00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:49.929
up the north coast. They're, again, they'd be

00:37:49.929 --> 00:37:54.539
the two. Real success stories. So the milk at

00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:57.960
Nowra was called Nowra Co -op? That's correct.

00:37:58.179 --> 00:38:01.820
Did it have a little anything, like some of the

00:38:01.820 --> 00:38:05.199
changes? When did it go from bottled? Yeah. What

00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:08.659
happened is they brought out homogenisation.

00:38:09.019 --> 00:38:13.099
Now, everyone went crook about it. So we all

00:38:13.099 --> 00:38:15.039
remember you had a bottle of milk. You'd take

00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.280
the lid off. When was this? When was this? This

00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.840
would have been late 60s, early 70s. So you had

00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:24.019
your milk bottles and we'd all open the milk

00:38:24.019 --> 00:38:26.539
bottle and whoever got it first would get the

00:38:26.539 --> 00:38:28.920
big blob of cream and the rest of us would get

00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:32.079
white water. But no one really understood that.

00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:35.639
So they brought out homogenisation and my dad

00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.019
was involved in that and again in the process

00:38:38.019 --> 00:38:42.480
of milk. So all they did was get a stainless

00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.360
steel, steel. a lot of wire and they push it

00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.920
together. It was only small. It looked very much

00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:51.139
like if you looked at a football boot and the

00:38:51.139 --> 00:38:53.699
tag on the bottom of a football boot, the bit

00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:56.719
on the ground, one of those. So the milk was

00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:00.500
forced through that wire. What that did was separated

00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:03.679
the cream and pushed the cream through all the

00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:07.519
milk. So that way, if you were the first person

00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.699
to open the milk bottle, the last person, everyone

00:39:10.699 --> 00:39:13.449
got their fair share of cream. So that's how

00:39:13.449 --> 00:39:17.530
homogenisation. So around that time, I remember

00:39:17.530 --> 00:39:20.349
my dad went to Sydney to some show and they were

00:39:20.349 --> 00:39:24.090
looking at what the next change from bottles

00:39:24.090 --> 00:39:26.170
were and they brought out a lot of stuff from

00:39:26.170 --> 00:39:28.070
all over the seas. There were plastic bottles

00:39:28.070 --> 00:39:32.530
and different things. But now it shows they had

00:39:32.530 --> 00:39:34.550
a few things that went wrong. They used the plastic

00:39:34.550 --> 00:39:37.929
bag for a while and every house had a little

00:39:37.929 --> 00:39:41.070
cradle to put that plastic bag. It wasn't overly

00:39:41.070 --> 00:39:44.639
successful. And then they went to the cartons,

00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:48.760
so carton milk, and eventually then they went

00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:52.260
to the plastic bottles. You talk about three

00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:56.159
major changes in milk producing. Yeah, well,

00:39:56.300 --> 00:39:58.760
probably... Is this the bulk milk carton? Yeah,

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:05.860
around 1967, I think, bulk milk came in. It was

00:40:05.860 --> 00:40:07.860
a concern to people like my dad because they

00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:10.079
all worked in the milk factory. You had people

00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.519
that were going out and collecting their cans.

00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:17.500
You had the dairy farmers who had to go through

00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:19.559
the expense of putting these stainless steel

00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.519
tanks in. So it was an absolute huge change.

00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.079
And was this with homogenisation around the same

00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:29.280
time? Because then you've got the milkman. Yeah,

00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:33.000
that's correct. So homogenisation was the first

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:37.329
thing. And then they went to the milk tank, the

00:40:37.329 --> 00:40:40.710
tanks on the farms. And like I said, my dad was

00:40:40.710 --> 00:40:45.329
a milk raider. He was offered a job to drive

00:40:45.329 --> 00:40:48.309
one of the trucks because basically there was

00:40:48.309 --> 00:40:52.730
no other job for him. So my dad, Uncle Billy,

00:40:52.849 --> 00:40:57.289
they got into these trucks and they hadn't driven

00:40:57.289 --> 00:41:00.530
a lot of cars really in those days because I

00:41:00.530 --> 00:41:05.119
was probably 12 or... 10 before we got our first

00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.300
car so yeah they chucked in one of these big

00:41:07.300 --> 00:41:11.900
trucks and that's what dad and uncle billy did

00:41:11.900 --> 00:41:14.519
until they retired they they went out and collected

00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.250
the milk from the farms My dad eventually ended

00:41:18.250 --> 00:41:21.610
up doing a coastal run. He used to go down to

00:41:21.610 --> 00:41:24.670
Bedalla Cheese Factory down there. I think he

00:41:24.670 --> 00:41:26.789
used to take milk down for them and then he would

00:41:26.789 --> 00:41:30.269
pick up milk around there for the farms and bring

00:41:30.269 --> 00:41:34.090
it back to Narra. So he loved that trip. He used

00:41:34.090 --> 00:41:37.929
to go down there. He knew the road, the highway,

00:41:37.989 --> 00:41:41.130
and was happy to do it. Seven days a week. What

00:41:41.130 --> 00:41:44.599
did that mean for dairy farmers? In terms of

00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:48.559
technology? Oh, huge. It was a huge change. Firstly,

00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:52.039
they had to extend the dairy itself. They had

00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:53.960
to build another room, most of them. A lot of

00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:56.039
them, they didn't have that room, so they had

00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:58.360
to put a room in there for the milk tank. They

00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:01.119
had to get power upgrades because they didn't

00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:03.239
have a lot of power available and milk was hardly

00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:05.019
running in the milking machine, so they had to

00:42:05.019 --> 00:42:07.840
have the power to run a compressor. Then they

00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.719
were responsible for sterilising those milk tanks,

00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:15.079
making sure that the tank was down to three and

00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.000
a half degrees. That's when, yeah, that was...

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.380
That would have had a huge impact on those farmers

00:42:21.380 --> 00:42:23.880
that... Oh, some of them closed down. Yeah, yeah,

00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:27.460
yeah. Because there's quite a cost involved in

00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:29.480
that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So some farmers,

00:42:29.619 --> 00:42:32.519
a lot of the small farmers got out. The larger

00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:36.320
farmers got bigger. And that's what happened.

00:42:37.259 --> 00:42:39.559
Just backtracking, sorry, where you've got the

00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:42.579
charcoal boilers going to oil? No, the coal,

00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.219
they were getting away from coal. Oil was cheap

00:42:46.219 --> 00:42:49.000
in those days, so they converted them to oil

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:52.019
burners. It's a bit like the trains. They got

00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:54.699
rid of the coal trains and went to diesel trains.

00:42:54.980 --> 00:42:58.039
So you remembered the oil? It was a lot easier

00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.780
because my uncle used to have to go down there

00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:03.539
I don't know what time, and these things had

00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:06.769
to be kept alight all the time. And again, it's

00:43:06.769 --> 00:43:09.230
a bit like the steam engines. Without a fire,

00:43:09.409 --> 00:43:13.889
you don't go anywhere. So once they went to oil,

00:43:13.989 --> 00:43:16.570
they went to mechanisation and they could control

00:43:16.570 --> 00:43:19.269
the boil through time as it continually ran,

00:43:19.409 --> 00:43:22.909
got up to temperature, shut down, just had a

00:43:22.909 --> 00:43:25.750
pilot flame going and then when the temperature

00:43:25.750 --> 00:43:28.969
needed, they were taking hot water away, they'd

00:43:28.969 --> 00:43:33.070
fire back up. Yeah, so it'd become a lot easier.

00:43:34.030 --> 00:43:36.889
I want to go to you shortly and your profession,

00:43:37.110 --> 00:43:39.869
but just thinking of you as the young man, we

00:43:39.869 --> 00:43:43.889
walked everywhere in those days. So what did

00:43:43.889 --> 00:43:46.309
Bomaderry look like? Is there any kind of, just

00:43:46.309 --> 00:43:49.429
thinking about Bomaderry, do you ever remember,

00:43:49.510 --> 00:43:54.150
was the Aboriginal mission there? Yeah, yeah,

00:43:54.170 --> 00:43:57.710
we, it was great. Like Bomaderry, it was nearly

00:43:57.710 --> 00:44:00.090
all gravel roads. As we got older, we all got

00:44:00.090 --> 00:44:04.000
pushbikes. So we spent a fair bit of time. with

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.360
skin hanging off us because there was quite a

00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:08.679
few hills and we'd lose our bikes. We had gravel

00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:11.199
rash all over us. Mum used to get upset because

00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.019
her clothes would be torn. We lived in Dalwa

00:44:14.019 --> 00:44:16.860
Street and it's not as steep as it is now because

00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:19.840
when they tarred it, they took a lot of the hill

00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:21.780
out of it. But when it was gravel, we had a great

00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:27.619
hill. So the billy carts would start off just

00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:29.380
at the front of our place because that's where

00:44:29.380 --> 00:44:33.070
the hill was. Everyone used to go down and you'd

00:44:33.070 --> 00:44:35.429
put someone and watch on down near the Grimes

00:44:35.429 --> 00:44:37.269
is down the corner because that was where the

00:44:37.269 --> 00:44:40.650
next intersection is. So even though cars didn't

00:44:40.650 --> 00:44:43.590
come along, so you'd fly down the hill. If you

00:44:43.590 --> 00:44:45.090
were lucky enough, you'd take the corner. If

00:44:45.090 --> 00:44:47.070
you didn't, you'd crash. But if you took the

00:44:47.070 --> 00:44:49.489
corner, you'd run down to what you call Frogsy,

00:44:49.489 --> 00:44:55.260
Frog's Hollow. So as small kids, we used to go

00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:57.579
down. It was a great place to explore. There

00:44:57.579 --> 00:45:00.380
was a few caves down there, and a few of the

00:45:00.380 --> 00:45:04.119
Aboriginal guys would sleep in the caves there.

00:45:04.300 --> 00:45:06.760
There wasn't a lot of houses. There was a guy

00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.639
called Ben Stewart lived in the corner, and his

00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:11.760
relatives, some of the Aboriginal people, used

00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:15.579
to stay there. Again, he was a wonderful guy.

00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:20.159
He followed the Bombardier Rugby League. And

00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:23.000
then you'd walk up over the hill. And again,

00:45:23.139 --> 00:45:25.260
I'm not talking about great distancing, you know,

00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.639
probably 100 metres up over some rocks. And the

00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:32.920
UAM home was there. What's the UAM? What does

00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:35.619
that mean? United Aboriginal Mission, I think.

00:45:35.739 --> 00:45:39.739
And as we all learnt, it was part of what they

00:45:39.739 --> 00:45:42.969
say and believe is the Stolen Generation. So

00:45:42.969 --> 00:45:45.130
we went to school with these kids. But we were

00:45:45.130 --> 00:45:47.670
all one. We had the same teachers. We mixed together,

00:45:47.690 --> 00:45:51.329
played football for Bombardier Swamp Rats in

00:45:51.329 --> 00:45:54.269
those days and cricket, just mixed together and

00:45:54.269 --> 00:45:55.849
there was nothing different. All we just knew

00:45:55.849 --> 00:45:58.449
that the kids, and we called it the home then,

00:45:58.570 --> 00:46:03.150
had some ladies that they used to, I think they

00:46:03.150 --> 00:46:06.469
called them sisters, and used to look after them.

00:46:06.530 --> 00:46:11.780
And that was it. There was no difference. And

00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:15.960
a lot of those guys and girls that went there

00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:20.960
are still in this area today. So tell me about

00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:23.739
gravel. That's tough, isn't it? Did you have

00:46:23.739 --> 00:46:28.019
footpaths? No, no footpaths. Like I said, Bomah

00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:31.739
was pretty well gravel. Just everywhere. I think

00:46:31.739 --> 00:46:34.380
in the early years, I think the main street might

00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:37.110
have been tarred. But other than that, there

00:46:37.110 --> 00:46:42.309
wasn't any real roads. And that was a great thing

00:46:42.309 --> 00:46:47.070
to see as time went on to get some tar roads.

00:46:47.230 --> 00:46:49.849
It made it a lot easier. It's interesting because

00:46:49.849 --> 00:46:52.130
there is the swamp there, isn't it? Just over

00:46:52.130 --> 00:46:55.250
the hill there in Dabowalong. Yeah. So I love

00:46:55.250 --> 00:46:57.250
the name Swamp Rats. Yeah, well, the football

00:46:57.250 --> 00:46:59.570
ground down the bottom, the Albometry Football

00:46:59.570 --> 00:47:02.349
Ground, which was next to... It's a hardware

00:47:02.349 --> 00:47:04.570
store now, but that used to be Riedenherne sawmill

00:47:04.570 --> 00:47:07.590
there. And the football ground there, there's

00:47:07.590 --> 00:47:10.309
the Bombardier Creek runs behind it. So any of

00:47:10.309 --> 00:47:13.510
the goal kickers kicking the ball, a lot of times

00:47:13.510 --> 00:47:15.289
any of the guys that could kick a ball good,

00:47:15.349 --> 00:47:18.469
the ball ended up in the creek. And down in that

00:47:18.469 --> 00:47:21.130
creek there, around that in the water, there

00:47:21.130 --> 00:47:23.909
were swamp rats there. I think through the 70s,

00:47:23.909 --> 00:47:25.630
they decided to become the Bombardier Tigers

00:47:25.630 --> 00:47:28.010
because they thought the name Bombardier Swamp

00:47:28.010 --> 00:47:31.920
Rat wasn't. Great. Again, there was a resistance,

00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:36.780
and now they had turned back and used the name

00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:38.679
Bombardier Swamp Rats again, which I'm really

00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:41.139
happy about. Did you have 10 colours? What were

00:47:41.139 --> 00:47:43.639
the colours, do you know? Yeah, Bombardier was

00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:45.980
just blue and gold. We used to play Nara quite

00:47:45.980 --> 00:47:48.780
a bit. The Nara people sat on one side, Bombardier

00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:50.980
people sat on the other side, and we wouldn't

00:47:50.980 --> 00:47:53.880
mix. Tell me about your relationship with Maroo.

00:47:54.219 --> 00:47:58.480
Was there dairying going on in Bolong? On the

00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:01.719
swamp? Yeah, yeah. Did you see the dairies? Oh,

00:48:01.780 --> 00:48:05.360
yeah, yeah, because my cousin's ex -husband,

00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:08.699
Bill Schofield, again, his name's come up before,

00:48:08.780 --> 00:48:11.760
he used to go out and pick up the milk, yeah,

00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:15.960
in the trucks. And myself and... They're kids.

00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:18.940
He used to put us in the back of the truck, frowned

00:48:18.940 --> 00:48:22.400
upon today, and we used to ride around the farms

00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.059
while he picked up all the milk cans and took

00:48:25.059 --> 00:48:27.059
them back to the narrow dairy company, and that

00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:29.320
was fun. I used to spend a lot of time out at

00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:33.619
my auntie and uncle's, Les and Rony Vaughan.

00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:35.639
I used to spend a lot of time out at their property,

00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:38.300
which was next door to Pat Muller's. Spent a

00:48:38.300 --> 00:48:40.840
lot of time on the dairy farms. How many, was

00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:43.699
that in Fletcher's Lane? They were in Fletcher's

00:48:43.699 --> 00:48:46.420
Lane first. And then they bought the neighbouring

00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:49.739
property, which was next to Pat's, Pat Muller's

00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:51.880
or Albert Muller's. Did you know names of the

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:53.960
farmers when you were on the milk run or you

00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:55.800
were just having fun? We were just having fun.

00:48:56.019 --> 00:48:59.730
Yeah. And what were the roads like? Oh, again,

00:48:59.789 --> 00:49:01.710
they were all gravel. You'd travel to Bury on

00:49:01.710 --> 00:49:04.409
the highway, you'd never, ever go up any of those

00:49:04.409 --> 00:49:07.349
roads, you know, Pestles Lane. And they just

00:49:07.349 --> 00:49:10.809
went on forever to this farm, to that farm. And,

00:49:10.809 --> 00:49:13.090
yeah, I think as a small kid you would have got

00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:16.349
lost real quick. But, yeah, they were sort of

00:49:16.349 --> 00:49:18.449
areas that, you know, a lot of people in town

00:49:18.449 --> 00:49:20.510
especially would never go out there. You know,

00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:24.349
even if we... I used to go shooting with the

00:49:24.349 --> 00:49:28.380
local paper shop owner and we used to... We'd

00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:31.940
pull up at Maroo there on the highway and he

00:49:31.940 --> 00:49:35.119
had a Volkswagen with the roof cut off for delivering

00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:38.800
papers and we would shoot rabbits from the highway.

00:49:39.019 --> 00:49:42.019
So, again, you just couldn't do that sort of

00:49:42.019 --> 00:49:44.059
thing these days. Is there anything more you

00:49:44.059 --> 00:49:46.519
want to say about the milk factory? Yeah, it

00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.239
was a big place and, you know, like the only

00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:52.559
other industry in those days, there was... Like

00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.300
I said, the paper mill, that was big. But the

00:49:55.300 --> 00:49:57.639
narrow dairy company was big. And probably the

00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.219
product they've become most famous for, and I

00:50:00.219 --> 00:50:04.539
think they still use it today, is their dairy

00:50:04.539 --> 00:50:08.559
custard. They won a lot of awards. The local

00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:10.980
industry sort of fell apart as far as the milk

00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:14.500
factory. This dairy custard seemed to move on

00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:18.969
through. whoever owned the name of the original

00:50:18.969 --> 00:50:23.010
factory, they kept on making that custard, and

00:50:23.010 --> 00:50:26.590
I think they still use the same recipe, but I've

00:50:26.590 --> 00:50:28.789
tasted it, and it doesn't taste as good as it

00:50:28.789 --> 00:50:31.230
used to when it came from the Narra Derry Co

00:50:31.230 --> 00:50:34.949
-op. They also made a lot of yogurts, and they

00:50:34.949 --> 00:50:38.170
were really popular, real fruit yogurts. So again,

00:50:38.269 --> 00:50:40.809
like I said before, if you didn't do it good,

00:50:40.869 --> 00:50:42.949
you didn't survive, and Narra Derry Co -op did

00:50:42.949 --> 00:50:45.639
it good. So when were they introducing those

00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:50.440
new products around? Yeah, that would have been

00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:55.340
in the 70s because before it was milk and butter.

00:50:55.460 --> 00:50:59.900
I think the butter industry fell apart when we

00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:01.880
started eating margarine. You know, all of a

00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:05.150
sudden butter's no good for you. So the butter

00:51:05.150 --> 00:51:07.869
industry, as it's turned out now, we're back

00:51:07.869 --> 00:51:10.030
eating butter and margarine's not good for you,

00:51:10.070 --> 00:51:13.610
but they took a dive with the butter. So they

00:51:13.610 --> 00:51:17.130
had to start looking at other products. And other

00:51:17.130 --> 00:51:18.809
equipment would have changed if they're adding

00:51:18.809 --> 00:51:22.530
fruit to yogurt? Yep, yep. And the big thing

00:51:22.530 --> 00:51:25.230
with flavoured milk, they did well with that

00:51:25.230 --> 00:51:28.329
with the introduction, I think, of the Move product,

00:51:28.469 --> 00:51:31.800
the brand Move, that was the milk Coke. if you

00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:33.980
know what I mean. And that was made there? Yeah,

00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:39.079
yeah, and other factories, but this badging and

00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.920
labelling of moved milk, that was a huge thing,

00:51:43.019 --> 00:51:45.800
you know, and there was ads on TV with kids at

00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:48.219
the beach and that was the cool drink to drink

00:51:48.219 --> 00:51:51.619
and, yeah. The expansion of the consumer product.

00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.460
Yeah, that's correct. You got an apprenticeship.

00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:58.760
I could never imagine that. I would have been

00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:01.960
so highly involved in the dairy industry as I

00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:06.039
grew up. I was lucky enough, my dad knew this

00:52:06.039 --> 00:52:08.739
electrician, again, through the milk factory,

00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:12.940
a guy in Bury called John Martin. And John, he

00:52:12.940 --> 00:52:17.239
was a specialist farm -type electrician and he

00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:19.800
had the qualifications in commercial refrigeration

00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:22.639
with these milk vats. So I started my apprenticeship

00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:24.880
with him. I'm not too sure. I probably spent

00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.179
about 15 years with him. How old were you when

00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:31.079
you started? 17. It was the best time ever because

00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:33.500
I got to come and work in Bury, forgetting about

00:52:33.500 --> 00:52:37.360
the job, but I got to know everyone in Bury.

00:52:37.460 --> 00:52:39.579
And it got to that point because I worked here

00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:42.699
for that long, I felt like a local. I could walk

00:52:42.699 --> 00:52:47.190
down the main street of Bury and... You know,

00:52:47.210 --> 00:52:50.949
I knew the Waddells and Bill and Beryl Bramley,

00:52:51.110 --> 00:52:56.809
Daryl Atkins, Rudd Hollins. It just goes on and

00:52:56.809 --> 00:53:01.550
on and on. The Domes with the bank, Mrs Mills,

00:53:01.730 --> 00:53:04.050
the hairdresser. But our workshop was very, very

00:53:04.050 --> 00:53:08.250
close to Main Street. So my job was going out

00:53:08.250 --> 00:53:11.670
onto the dairy farms and doing electrical work

00:53:11.670 --> 00:53:14.269
for dairy farms. Every farmer in Bury, every

00:53:14.269 --> 00:53:17.489
farmer in Gerongong. And eventually, as time

00:53:17.489 --> 00:53:20.809
went on, and we did a lot of farms in the Nara,

00:53:21.010 --> 00:53:25.250
Bumadur and Maroo area, and then eventually...

00:53:25.250 --> 00:53:28.550
What about Tarara and Numa? Yeah, a lot of them,

00:53:28.610 --> 00:53:32.889
yeah. And as time went on and eventually moving

00:53:32.889 --> 00:53:36.170
forward a long time... I ended up with every

00:53:36.170 --> 00:53:40.909
farm from Kembla Grange down to south of Ulladulla

00:53:40.909 --> 00:53:44.829
towards Moruya, out to the coast, out to the

00:53:44.829 --> 00:53:47.090
highlands towards Goulburn. So, yeah, we talk

00:53:47.090 --> 00:53:49.550
about this local area, but there was dairy farmers

00:53:49.550 --> 00:53:53.949
all over the place. If push came to shove and

00:53:53.949 --> 00:53:57.210
we had some maps, could you nut out some of those

00:53:57.210 --> 00:54:00.619
names and size of properties? Yeah, I don't know

00:54:00.619 --> 00:54:03.400
about the size. I could tell you who were the

00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:05.420
major dairy farmers because of the size of their

00:54:05.420 --> 00:54:07.059
milk factory. Well, let's go. And that was my

00:54:07.059 --> 00:54:10.579
specialist, you know. Let's talk. Well, the big

00:54:10.579 --> 00:54:14.679
ones were, say, David Boyd. David Boyd would

00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:17.099
be still one of the biggest producers in Australia.

00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:20.019
And where's he located? He's down there at Torera.

00:54:20.380 --> 00:54:25.139
And then you had Cal Crafts, which became Alex

00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:27.900
Cochran. and his brother Ian. They were huge

00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:31.840
suppliers. You had down in Jindy Andy Lane, you

00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.099
had people like Rodney Crawford, you had the

00:54:35.099 --> 00:54:41.070
Cochrans, the Watsers. They were all major, major

00:54:41.070 --> 00:54:44.750
producers down at Milton. People like Lyle Ewan.

00:54:44.889 --> 00:54:48.690
Yeah, they all had silo milk vats. Thinking of

00:54:48.690 --> 00:54:51.309
your work, where are you located, literally?

00:54:51.429 --> 00:54:55.349
Where is your workplace? The workshop was opposite

00:54:55.349 --> 00:54:57.449
the Great Southern Pub there in a little old

00:54:57.449 --> 00:55:00.110
building. I think it's an arts place now. I was

00:55:00.110 --> 00:55:03.329
responsible for every milk vat. So, yeah, around

00:55:03.329 --> 00:55:06.590
Berry, we also did the work for the Berry Co

00:55:06.590 --> 00:55:09.820
-op. all the work in the co -op itself. As time

00:55:09.820 --> 00:55:12.400
went on, I did work at Narra Co -op, the other

00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.179
co -ops right up, Albion Park, Jamboree, Jarragong.

00:55:16.699 --> 00:55:20.039
So, yeah. When you say work, tell me what broadly,

00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:22.480
what your work is. Well, yeah, yeah. Okay, so

00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:26.340
it was more industrial electrical work. You know,

00:55:26.380 --> 00:55:29.519
in other words, the pumps and all the wiring

00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:33.090
and controls, the refrigeration. keeping things

00:55:33.090 --> 00:55:36.190
cool, some working on some of the refrigerated

00:55:36.190 --> 00:55:40.429
trucks. So that's what we mainly did in the milk

00:55:40.429 --> 00:55:42.949
factories themselves, basically keeping them

00:55:42.949 --> 00:55:45.309
going. I mean, things like lighting and, you

00:55:45.309 --> 00:55:48.570
know, extra light, security. So on site at the

00:55:48.570 --> 00:55:52.150
farms, what are you doing? Who's providing you

00:55:52.150 --> 00:55:54.010
with equipment, are you saying? Yeah, yeah, we

00:55:54.010 --> 00:55:57.179
work along. with people like Arthur Morehouse.

00:55:57.219 --> 00:55:59.559
Morehouse was with the machinery people, or they

00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:02.079
used to call themselves, the Alfa Laval product

00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.159
and that. So they put the milking machines in

00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:07.980
the milk pumps and that, and we'd run the power

00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:11.619
to the motor that drove it. We did all the lighting,

00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:14.820
the automatic feeders. In other words, eventually

00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:17.699
as the farms got bigger, they got these feeders

00:56:17.699 --> 00:56:20.059
that used to cut in and cut out and drop feed

00:56:20.059 --> 00:56:22.340
for the cows. So we used to connect all them.

00:56:22.460 --> 00:56:24.909
And the big part, which was our other specialty,

00:56:25.110 --> 00:56:28.309
which was away from the electrical, was the milk

00:56:28.309 --> 00:56:31.570
vats looking after refrigeration. So that was

00:56:31.570 --> 00:56:34.250
a really responsible job because it was important

00:56:34.250 --> 00:56:36.829
for us to keep that milk because when the milk

00:56:36.829 --> 00:56:40.210
goes in, when it's quite warm, 90 degrees Fahrenheit,

00:56:40.570 --> 00:56:44.349
you've got about two hours for itself to go off.

00:56:44.550 --> 00:56:48.380
We were always on call. Even when my old boss

00:56:48.380 --> 00:56:51.199
John had the business, we'd take turns getting

00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:53.500
out to these farms as quick as we could with

00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:55.619
all the equipment. And we used to have spare

00:56:55.619 --> 00:56:58.320
compressors and motors and thermostats and all

00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:00.420
the equipment that makes these things go. And

00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:03.000
we'd get these tanks. So you've got to cool the

00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:05.599
milk down. Exactly right. Exactly. And that was

00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:08.800
our job. installing them, running all the pipe

00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:11.780
work, installing the refrigeration gas. So we

00:57:11.780 --> 00:57:14.280
always had quantities of that with us and we

00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:16.800
worked along with the farmers. So farmers work

00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:19.519
seven days a week without a day off. This business

00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:22.139
works seven days a week without a day off. And

00:57:22.139 --> 00:57:24.760
like the vets, the vets, they were out there

00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:28.260
with us and we worked along. I've helped deliver

00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:31.320
plenty of calves with the vets and, yeah, you

00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:33.980
know, because they'd have a difficult delivery

00:57:33.980 --> 00:57:36.539
and it used to be a bit of an emotional thing,

00:57:36.659 --> 00:57:39.579
you know, hoping these little calves would start

00:57:39.579 --> 00:57:42.119
breathing and that. What are you driving? And

00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:44.739
did that change? Oh, we were driving these horrible

00:57:44.739 --> 00:57:50.440
combis and my boss was a combi freak and I hated

00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:53.179
them. They were underpowered. They were boiling

00:57:53.179 --> 00:57:56.539
hot in summer. Freezing coal in winter. They

00:57:56.539 --> 00:57:59.920
were terrible, terrible cars. But my old boss,

00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:03.119
he was a Volkswagen man. But, yeah, eventually

00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:07.920
we swapped and we went to Toyota HiAces and things

00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.739
that were a little more powerful and comfortable.

00:58:11.139 --> 00:58:13.519
And what are you wearing? Just the usual? Yeah,

00:58:13.539 --> 00:58:16.340
just the work clothes and overalls and, yeah,

00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:18.440
that sort of thing. Anything memorable stand

00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:22.110
out, like really? problematic that i mean i'm

00:58:22.110 --> 00:58:25.110
sure it's all that but was there any major we

00:58:25.110 --> 00:58:27.369
treated every problem like that and that's why

00:58:27.369 --> 00:58:30.070
we were the only people on the coast that did

00:58:30.070 --> 00:58:33.250
this work it was so important to the farmers

00:58:33.250 --> 00:58:36.409
the farmers and this is later on when my wife

00:58:36.409 --> 00:58:38.670
ronda and i had the business so let's talk about

00:58:38.670 --> 00:58:41.489
that so john martin sold you the yeah he sold

00:58:41.489 --> 00:58:44.260
me the refrigeration part After my first month,

00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:47.900
I find you how hard it was. I never worked out

00:58:47.900 --> 00:58:50.500
how hard running a business and especially things

00:58:50.500 --> 00:58:52.840
like cash flows. But yeah, Rhonda and I are...

00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.159
Okay, I'll slow you down there. So you and Rhonda

00:58:55.159 --> 00:58:58.500
got married where? Yeah, we got married in Nara

00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:01.579
at the Anglican Church in 1980. And so when are

00:59:01.579 --> 00:59:04.119
you buying the business? Probably early 90s,

00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:07.170
yeah. And how old were you then? Around 30. Yeah,

00:59:07.170 --> 00:59:08.969
we're all good and fit then, aren't we? Yeah.

00:59:09.349 --> 00:59:12.369
This was before computers, so I had this thing

00:59:12.369 --> 00:59:14.909
where the only way I could work out, I thought

00:59:14.909 --> 00:59:17.349
if I kept working, we won't go broke. So I didn't

00:59:17.349 --> 00:59:20.130
stop working. So I had no other way of working

00:59:20.130 --> 00:59:23.369
out how our business was going. So we just...

00:59:23.369 --> 00:59:25.650
How did you handle that? I mean, you're going

00:59:25.650 --> 00:59:29.050
crazy, aren't you? Oh, it was tough. It was tough.

00:59:29.150 --> 00:59:32.769
And it wasn't until years later I said to Rhonda,

00:59:32.829 --> 00:59:36.739
I said in that first part, I said, I called in.

00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:39.179
Our car got home around 8 .30, 9 o 'clock at

00:59:39.179 --> 00:59:42.440
night. She was sitting at the dining room table

00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:46.860
with a manual typewriter doing invoices. I went

00:59:46.860 --> 00:59:51.460
in to tell her that I wanted to give up the business

00:59:51.460 --> 00:59:55.079
and I couldn't do it anymore. I was mentally

00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:57.619
and physically exhausted. And I told her some

00:59:57.619 --> 00:59:59.659
years down the track about it and she said, I

00:59:59.659 --> 01:00:01.920
wanted to do the same and I saw you come in from

01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:05.219
work. And I couldn't do it to you. Luckily, we

01:00:05.219 --> 01:00:07.119
didn't have that conversation. Otherwise, we

01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.699
might have pulled the pin. But we kept going.

01:00:09.860 --> 01:00:13.599
The business was quite successful, to be honest.

01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:17.739
And they used to say to me, you're good at what

01:00:17.739 --> 01:00:21.300
you do. And I said, no. I said, it's Rhonda and

01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:27.860
I. And Rhonda's business management was the success

01:00:27.860 --> 01:00:30.699
of our business. So I kept working, doing what

01:00:30.699 --> 01:00:35.699
I was doing. She did. She got the money in. Yeah,

01:00:35.699 --> 01:00:37.659
yeah. And yeah, she was good at what she was

01:00:37.659 --> 01:00:40.860
Commonwealth Bank trained. And that really, really

01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:43.559
helped. It was funny because the dairy industry

01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:47.300
was in a decline. So I said to Rhonda, in us

01:00:47.300 --> 01:00:50.480
buying the refrigeration business, I said, that'll

01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:53.579
give us two or three years before the dairy industry's

01:00:53.579 --> 01:00:55.840
pretty well buggered. But that'll give me two

01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:57.760
or three years to build up an electrical business.

01:00:58.059 --> 01:01:01.159
But I didn't know the dairy industry was about

01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:05.219
to change. The dairy industry grew, farmers got

01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:09.059
bigger. They started, we started basically from

01:01:09.059 --> 01:01:13.139
one farm to another, replacing their milk vats

01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:17.039
because the guys got smaller. The work they did

01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:20.860
on the farm, they were producing more milk. Herds

01:01:20.860 --> 01:01:24.719
become better. Science. Exactly. And there was

01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.920
incentives out there for the farmers to work

01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:30.900
hard and produce a lot of milk. The big thing

01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:33.989
was... The Frisian cows, they'd improved the

01:01:33.989 --> 01:01:36.050
amount of milk that was coming from the cows.

01:01:36.289 --> 01:01:39.170
So all of a sudden, these farmers needed a bigger

01:01:39.170 --> 01:01:42.530
milk tank. Basically, from the whole south coast

01:01:42.530 --> 01:01:46.030
over southern tablelands, we went to every farm,

01:01:46.050 --> 01:01:48.969
went to a silo, which is the vertical type tank,

01:01:49.070 --> 01:01:52.210
so that the farmers could haul more milk. And

01:01:52.210 --> 01:01:55.010
then they become self -cleaning. And then the

01:01:55.010 --> 01:01:59.670
milk factory started picking up 24 hours. So

01:01:59.670 --> 01:02:02.389
we'd get call -outs. I still remember Jenny Crawford

01:02:02.389 --> 01:02:06.250
ringing me at 2 o 'clock and said, Ian, the tank's

01:02:06.250 --> 01:02:08.250
been emptied, but the self -cleaning won't work.

01:02:08.630 --> 01:02:11.670
So at 2 o 'clock, I'd be out in the vehicle.

01:02:11.929 --> 01:02:14.389
Because that tank had to be cleaned. They weren't

01:02:14.389 --> 01:02:16.570
a tank you could watch manually. Because they're

01:02:16.570 --> 01:02:19.090
stainless steel. And they're big. They're huge.

01:02:19.269 --> 01:02:21.829
They're huge. And they were a silo. They had

01:02:21.829 --> 01:02:26.070
to be washed. So, yeah, I'd get out there and

01:02:26.070 --> 01:02:28.389
have the equipment and get it going. And with

01:02:28.389 --> 01:02:30.929
the growth of that business and the farms, all

01:02:30.929 --> 01:02:33.789
those farmers, and again, because of our relationship

01:02:33.789 --> 01:02:37.150
with them, it was like having 150 new friends.

01:02:37.389 --> 01:02:40.809
And we'd be gone very close to all these farmers.

01:02:40.929 --> 01:02:44.570
We inherited some milk factories like Gerongong.

01:02:45.090 --> 01:02:49.179
I already had Berry. I was doing some work. Nara

01:02:49.179 --> 01:02:52.179
was still operating then. What about Jamboree?

01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:55.079
Jamboree, yeah, I spent a lot of time at Jamboree.

01:02:55.139 --> 01:02:56.960
It was a guy called Jeff Boxall was the manager

01:02:56.960 --> 01:02:59.739
there. He was a really, really nice guy. And

01:02:59.739 --> 01:03:02.559
Jamboree was famous with their condensed milk.

01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:05.059
I used to love working there because I'd always

01:03:05.059 --> 01:03:07.679
bring a jar of condensed milk home with me and

01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:11.139
I'd walk along and when they were bottling and

01:03:11.139 --> 01:03:14.119
canning the... condensed milk the thing was taps

01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:16.460
were always leaking so you could walk along and

01:03:16.460 --> 01:03:18.460
there were a big drip of condensed milk and you

01:03:18.460 --> 01:03:22.679
just put your finger and that was all right for

01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:24.599
the first hour but at the end of the day you

01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:27.599
were feeling quite unwell but um did you work

01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:31.539
a bit of weight on i did in those days i don't

01:03:31.539 --> 01:03:34.860
know whether that was that or the red wine. But,

01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:37.260
yeah, Albion Park, I looked after Albion Park

01:03:37.260 --> 01:03:39.380
as well. So it was the first one to close down.

01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:44.139
What era? That was in the mid to late 80s. We'll

01:03:44.139 --> 01:03:47.179
see Albion Park or Dapto, all that area, a lot

01:03:47.179 --> 01:03:50.940
of farmers went out. It's become, yeah, suburbia.

01:03:51.099 --> 01:03:54.420
Houses spread out there. The land became more

01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:57.179
valuable. Valuable, that's correct. Yeah, yeah.

01:03:57.340 --> 01:04:00.900
But there were still some farmers going. They

01:04:00.900 --> 01:04:04.179
were transporting to Nowra. Again, I used to

01:04:04.179 --> 01:04:06.760
go out there and look after all those farms too

01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:10.260
as well. Before we set up business, I was...

01:04:10.260 --> 01:04:13.000
Geoff Boxall, the manager from Jamboree, ended

01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.480
up managing Nowra and he offered me a job full

01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:17.760
-time working. Over a weekend, I made a decision

01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:20.840
not to take it, which was probably the best decision

01:04:20.840 --> 01:04:23.420
of my life for a lot of reasons. One of them

01:04:23.420 --> 01:04:26.340
is I couldn't imagine being working in one building

01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:30.239
all the time. With my job, I could... travel

01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:33.880
out and work and I could pull in at Oven Kanga

01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:36.679
Valley beside a stream and put my feet in the

01:04:36.679 --> 01:04:38.920
water and read a newspaper and have lunch and

01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:43.300
what a great place and what a great job. Instead

01:04:43.300 --> 01:04:45.300
of being trapped in four walls where I would

01:04:45.300 --> 01:04:47.480
have been if I was in Nara. You would have had

01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:50.099
a few weather events to handle, getting across

01:04:50.099 --> 01:04:53.199
rivers and things? Yeah, yeah. Creeks? Yeah,

01:04:53.260 --> 01:04:56.980
yeah. And it's dangerous, really dangerous, especially...

01:04:57.679 --> 01:05:01.000
Walter Muller, I remember one of our customers

01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:03.900
up there, he went across the tractor, grandkids,

01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:05.659
and there was two or three of them, lost their

01:05:05.659 --> 01:05:08.340
lives. The paper mill, they had a double -decker

01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:12.000
bus. They'd take that up to the Bomberoo Basketball

01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:14.780
Stadium and all the paper mill workers would

01:05:14.780 --> 01:05:17.139
get on that bus and they'd drive that through

01:05:17.139 --> 01:05:20.519
the floodwaters down to the paper mill. You talk

01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:23.519
about Pat Muller, Richard Boxall, talking about

01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:27.320
the 68 Fires, I think it was. And this is, again,

01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:29.539
before I was in the air industry. Where we lived

01:05:29.539 --> 01:05:32.420
in Dalby Street, I would sit on the back veranda

01:05:32.420 --> 01:05:35.880
at night. And I was probably nine. I thought

01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:38.280
it was great, but I didn't realise how serious

01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:42.579
it was. To see... And we had a great view from

01:05:42.579 --> 01:05:45.579
our backyard of Canberra Mountain. To see Canberra

01:05:45.579 --> 01:05:50.670
Mountain alight. And... The thought these days,

01:05:50.769 --> 01:05:54.170
and a few years ago, when it wasn't New Year's

01:05:54.170 --> 01:05:58.269
Day or Eve, down around here where those fires

01:05:58.269 --> 01:06:00.869
went through there again, and luckily the wind

01:06:00.869 --> 01:06:03.050
changed and took it up to the highlands. Not

01:06:03.050 --> 01:06:06.090
good for them. I had these memories of when I

01:06:06.090 --> 01:06:08.949
was a kid, and I knew what I could do, and I

01:06:08.949 --> 01:06:12.349
knew what houses had built up and people living

01:06:12.349 --> 01:06:15.110
in there. I truly thought the westerly wind had

01:06:15.110 --> 01:06:18.929
come down on the mountain. There would have been...

01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:22.420
a lot of houses lost, and it would have threatened

01:06:22.420 --> 01:06:26.159
vomiting. Is it a family business still? Yeah,

01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.059
that's correct. It was when PCs started coming

01:06:29.059 --> 01:06:31.880
in with computers, with networking computers.

01:06:32.179 --> 01:06:35.559
Years ago, I got involved. I've always, because

01:06:35.559 --> 01:06:39.920
of my training in control circuit wiring, I was

01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:43.500
always involved in high -end type stuff. So I

01:06:43.500 --> 01:06:45.360
started working for some of the government organisations

01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:49.519
running coax cables for these computers. And

01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:51.579
then there was a convention that came out called

01:06:51.579 --> 01:06:54.340
the PC. And so everyone could sit around with

01:06:54.340 --> 01:06:56.539
their own little computer and they would network

01:06:56.539 --> 01:07:00.619
back to a server. So I did training with some

01:07:00.619 --> 01:07:03.860
of my employees and we started running data cables

01:07:03.860 --> 01:07:08.199
and networking computers. So our business went

01:07:08.199 --> 01:07:10.239
to a different side and we also got involved

01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:14.039
in automation. Now, we were still running the

01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.300
refrigeration business then and it just got too

01:07:16.300 --> 01:07:20.710
big. So we sold the refrigeration business off.

01:07:20.829 --> 01:07:23.449
The best part of that was I didn't have to work

01:07:23.449 --> 01:07:26.610
seven days a week. I missed my friends, the dairy

01:07:26.610 --> 01:07:31.110
farmers, but I didn't miss the seven days, 365

01:07:31.110 --> 01:07:34.869
days a year working. So yeah, our business changed

01:07:34.869 --> 01:07:38.269
more into automation and computer cable networking.

01:07:39.829 --> 01:07:43.949
Eventually it got bigger. My son and my daughter

01:07:43.949 --> 01:07:47.079
-in -law bought. business and that allowed me

01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:51.320
to retire early and take up my real love of traveling

01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:53.880
Australia in the outback areas and basically

01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:56.440
for the last 10 years we've been traveling in

01:07:56.440 --> 01:07:59.739
remote areas of Australia Rhonda and I in the

01:07:59.739 --> 01:08:03.139
cooler months of winter because that's the only

01:08:03.139 --> 01:08:08.119
time to go in those areas thank you Ian I really

01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:13.369
enjoyed our conversation This brings us to the

01:08:13.369 --> 01:08:17.729
close of Episode 7. Check out my website in a

01:08:17.729 --> 01:08:23.689
few days if you want to catch a few photos. I've

01:08:23.689 --> 01:08:27.770
also just gone to YouTube and in coming months

01:08:27.770 --> 01:08:31.630
we'll have some moving image. All the episodes

01:08:31.630 --> 01:08:35.970
to date are available also on YouTube. Tune in

01:08:35.970 --> 01:08:41.329
to Episode 8 in a few weeks, Turner's Lane. with

01:08:41.329 --> 01:08:45.430
the Walsh family. Thank you very much for listening

01:08:45.430 --> 01:08:49.390
and I hope you're enjoying it. Tell your friends.

01:08:50.289 --> 01:08:55.630
Just simply Google the Dairy Lane Project. Bye

01:08:55.630 --> 01:08:55.829
bye.