WEBVTT

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Patrick Muller was born in 1954 and he's one

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of seven children to parents Albert and Vonnie

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Muller. His mother, Vonnie, is 100 years old.

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Patrick's great -great -grandfather, Jacob, and

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wife, Annie, with three young children, migrated

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to Australia on December 1854 from Hamburg, Germany.

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Germans were assisted to emigrate if the British

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could not supply the skills, mainly in agriculture

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and wine. They travelled with 500 others on the

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ship Cateau -Wattel, that is C -A -T -E -A -U

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-X -W -A -T -T -E -L. Jacob and his family then

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boarded the vessel Norma, arriving in the Shoalhaven

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on the 14th of March 1955. He was indentured

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to work for David Berry. They lived initially

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in a house at Back Forest. Jacob was naturalised

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in 1861, which enabled him to buy land. He remained

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all his life working on the estate at Koolangatta

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as a plasterer. He bought a house in 1880 in

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Berry Street, Nowra, deding this to his son George

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in 1882. George was to follow in his footsteps

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and became a builder after his father's passing.

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Next son John bought an initial 86 acres from

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John Hay, which was part of the Maroo estate

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in 1893, when the larger Berry estate lands were

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being sold. His brother George built his house,

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Pomona. Five generations of the Muller family

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were to grow up and farm at Pomona. Pomona today

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is heritage listed and was the heart of the Maroo

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community throughout the 20th century. John married

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Mary Host in 1877 and had seven children. His

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son Albert married Bridget Morrissey in 1912

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and leased Pomona till 1941, then he purchased

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it. They had eight children. and worked as a

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share farmer after he marries Vonnie Walsh in

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1948. They purchased Pomona in 1959. For Pomona

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to survive the introduction of milk quotas in

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the 60s and 70s, extra land had to be purchased.

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Even though farm practices and machinery were

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improving, it was a rapidly changing industry

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and economic environment. Patrick Muller, their

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son, was to remain with the farm and bought Pomona

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in 1986 with wife Jeanette King from Noomba.

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They left the property forever in 2016, having

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sold the bulk of the property a few years earlier.

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Continuous ownership by the Muller family for

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approximately 120 years, Patrick recalls, his

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daily life farming in Maroo, and reflects on

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the challenges and the stories that have been

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passed to him by his neighbours and his ancestors.

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I hope you enjoyed as much as I enjoyed it. So

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thanks for joining us today, Patrick Muller.

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That's okay. How are you going? Very good, thanks.

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Yeah, very good. It's interesting to see what

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you're doing with this history. It's important,

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I think, that it's recorded. We're still in Maroo

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Meadow and today we're going to talk about Lemons

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Lane where you grew up. So how far back does

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your family go in Lemons Lane? My great -grandfather

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purchased a block, 86 acres, in Lemons Lane in

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1893 when the Berry Estate was being sold up.

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Before that he had arrived in Australia. with

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his father and his elder brother George in 1856.

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They came from a place called Fronstein in Germany.

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My great -great -grandfather Jacob came out as

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an indentured labourer for the Berry Estate and

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he came out as a vine dresser, but I think he

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ended up doing a lot of work as a plasterer.

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John was three when he came out, my great -grandfather.

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He was working on the farm and then eventually

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he ended up getting a lease share farming agreement.

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with David Berry and working out at Farmeadow.

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Do you recall what ship they came out on and

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what his wife's name was and how many kids? The

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ship was the Kato Wattel and I believe it sailed

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from Hamburg. Came out with his wife, I think

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his wife's name was Anna. Yeah, they arrived

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in Sydney and moved down to the coast working

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with the Berry estate and he eventually signed

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a share farming agreement in 1877. share farm

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on this estate so that agreement is that the

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agreement that i have here in my farm yes yeah

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that's who gave you that it's just been passed

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on down through the family my great -grandfather

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actually john was a very avid diary keeper and

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he kept diaries for 1870s right up to nearly

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to when he passed away in 1941 at the age of

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90 one or two so we've been able to glean a lot

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of information out of those diaries And it's

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a fascinating insight into life on the farm and

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around that time. That land agreement, is that

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the land that Lemons Lane is on today? No, the

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share farming agreement was out at Back Forest,

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somewhere out there. But then when the estate,

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it was being sold in... In 1893, he would have

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been about 40 then, so he purchased the 86 acres

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at Maroo. We know from the fact that there was

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a diary entry where he paid £36 an acre for the

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86 acres, which we think was a fair amount of

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money then, but you've got to remember that Tandingulla

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Creek flowed through the property and provided

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a water source at the time. But there would have

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been a lot of clearing to do, there would have

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been a lot of trees, which would have been done

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by hand. He started a dairy farm up there pretty

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well straight away, milking cows, and they also

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established an orchard, and the name Pomona is

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Roman for the goddess of fruit. So they established

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a fairly extensive orchard there, and some of

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those original trees that were planted are still

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there, although they're sort of getting a bit

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tired now. Can you describe the orchard? Yeah,

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it had a variety of different trees, plum trees,

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peach trees, pear trees, apples. And I know there

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was persimmon trees, locust trees. There was

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a lot of different types of fruit grown there.

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And where did the fruit go? A lot of it would

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have been used by the family. And we know this

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from the diaries that they used to grow a lot

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of vegetables. And a lot of those vegetables

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were grown and then onsold through to Sydney

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on the train in the early part of the 20th century.

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OK, what else do you know about your great -grandfather?

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He was very active. They were very active in

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the community. He was very community -minded.

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He actually had a tennis court built at the front

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of the property, which was used by the local

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community. He also had a cricket pitch built

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behind the dairy, the old dairy that's still

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there in the Lemons Lane, and the cricket pitch

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is still actually there, although it's a bit

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worn now, underneath all the grass. When we were

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kids, we used to play there. There was a Maroo

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Cricket Club, the MCC or the MMCC. And they used

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to play in local competitions and travel quite

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extensively around the place in villages like

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Camberwara, Piree, Bolong. What sort of cows

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do you know? Was he breeding or was...? They

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would have had Ayrshire cows originally to start

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with and they were mostly Ayrshires or crossbreed

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cows. Grandfather, there was a new dairy built

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there in 1917 on the property. They're just not

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far from Pomona. That building is still standing,

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although it's been modified a bit. He built that

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in 1917. He was one of the first in the district

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to install milking machines for the cows to be

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milked. So prior to that, they would have been

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milking by hand. Do you know what, was it a walkthrough?

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Yeah, walkthrough. It would have been, originally

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it was four, it was eight unit, but four double

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up units and four milking machines. It was like

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that for a long while then. I think my father

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doubled them up so they could milk eight. and

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eventually we converted that dairy into a herringbone

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dairy. When did Pomona first get built, and do

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you know anything about the plans and the purpose?

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We don't have any plans for it, but as I said,

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my great -grandfather's brother George built

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that for him in what would have been not long

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after the purchase of it. It would have been

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starting to build straight away because they

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would have had to live somewhere. So this is

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George Muller. George Muller, yeah. Did he build

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anything else nearby? Yeah, I think he did build

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a place called Exeter, which I think is the one

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on the hill just opposite Murray Road down there.

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And also I know of another place that's just

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at the bottom of Morton's Hill where Bolong Road

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joins the highway. There's a house in there,

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an old house there. I believe he built that and

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probably other houses around in our area as well.

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So they came out from Germany as...? It came

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out, I think, as a vine dresser. My great -great

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-grandfather ended up working as a plasterer

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and sort of builder and probably doing agricultural

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pursuits as well. Do you know if they ever grew

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vines? Don't think so, no. He used to go to the

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Sydney show, preparing the district exhibits.

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There's a lot of mention of that in the diaries

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about how he went to Sydney. And because of their

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involvement in the community and the way they

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embraced the community and invited people. into

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their home and into the property, into Bermuda,

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they went to my great -grandfather and my great

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-grandmother went to New Zealand, I think in

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about 1920. And when they arrived back, they

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were presented with an illuminated address, which

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I'm not sure whether you're familiar with, but

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it was a big framed address just thanking them

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for their contribution to the community and how

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well they were received by the community and

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how they were perceived by the community. It

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was something that took pride of place hanging

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on the wall at Pomona because it just embraced

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what my great -grandfather and great -grandmother

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did for the community. Let's talk a bit more

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about the house. Later days, the Sunday school

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picnic used to be held there. When the Maroos

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school was going, they'd have a picnic day there

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every once a year, which involved all the local

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kids and community and families coming together.

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Do you remember those yourself? Oh, yeah, I can

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remember the picnic. So tell me a bit more about

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your lived experience of it. I have a guilty

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conscience about that because I know they used

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to have the... They had a big tent and they'd

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had an ice cream, the canvas bags of ice cream

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with the dry ice in them and all the ice creams

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in there. And I can recall myself and another

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kid, and I don't know who it was, thought that

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was just too tempting, so we snuck around the

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back and got in and took an ice cream each, which

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meant we probably got two for the day. That's

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pretty normal. It was just one of those things.

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I mean, yeah, there was the races they used to

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have, the three -legged races and egg and sperm

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races and all sorts of things. It was just a

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great community day. How many people would be

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there? Oh, I don't know. There might be 40 or

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50. Lots of kids? Lots of kids, yeah. It was

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a great day. The kids used to look forward to

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it. Part of the school, the hall also was part

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of the... Maroo community, that was built in

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1933. A little bit of history about that, which

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I gleaned from George Marshall, and I think also

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my father spoke about it, to build a hall in

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the community, and it was right beside the highway,

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the old highway that was there. It was either

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going to be on Tom Hitchcock's land or... Or

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Dick Barron. And apparently the hall was eventually

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built on Tom Hitchcock's land. Yeah, so the Maroo

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Hall, it was... became a focal point for the

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community and it was sort of opposite the school.

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They used to have end of year function there

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for the school presentation I suppose and also

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a Christmas function which the whole community

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would welcome to attend and of course everyone

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brought a plate and there was always a wonderful

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supper as you could imagine. A lot of fun for

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the kids, Santa Claus would arrive. The hall

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was also used by the community for other different

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functions throughout the year. A local resident

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was leaving. They'd have a farewell there in

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the hall. If it was a new family moved into the

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district, they'd have a welcoming get -together

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there at the hall. And there was a lot of dancers

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there in the early days. My mother's family,

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actually the Walsh family orchestra, used to

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play there. Who in the Walsh family? Do you know

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who played and what instrument? It would have

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been Mum's brothers and her sister. Her sister

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Sheila. Mum was a bit young to be playing at

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that stage. But her brother Frank, Mick and Bede

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and Tom and Ted, I'm not sure whether they were

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all in it, but they were all very musical. They

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all played, I can't remember, I know there was

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saxophones involved and pianos. So they must

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have been trained as young kids. I think a lot

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of them, they were probably self -taught, I think.

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I'm not sure whether they had lessons, but they

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were very well known around there. and the district

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needs to play in a lot of places. Mum, she became

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a very accomplished singer and you sang at many,

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many weddings and events right throughout the

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district and involved with the church and the

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choir. So you'd go to Maroo Church? No, we went

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to the Catholic Church in Narra. The Maroo Church

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would have been functioning in those early days,

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obviously. It was a union church, so it was different

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denominations. But the Catholic Church... Didn't

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have services there. You said something about

00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:27.419
Maroo Church and the stained glass in the windows.

00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.820
Yeah, that stained glass window, that was commissioned

00:14:30.820 --> 00:14:35.080
by Rennie Warshall, one of George and Len Warshall's

00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.620
sister. And her brother, then George and Len's

00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:41.600
brother, Mark, was killed in the Second World

00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:45.559
War in New Guinea. And she had that stained glass

00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:49.649
window commissioned in memory of Mark. Can you

00:14:49.649 --> 00:14:51.529
recall that window, what it looks like? Yeah,

00:14:51.529 --> 00:14:53.669
it was very... Because it was on the western

00:14:53.669 --> 00:14:55.809
side, and so when the sun was shining through

00:14:55.809 --> 00:14:57.370
it, I mean, all those stained glass windows are

00:14:57.370 --> 00:15:01.289
amazing, what they can do. So it is very... Beautiful.

00:15:01.470 --> 00:15:04.529
Yeah, beautiful. Beautiful tribute to one of

00:15:04.529 --> 00:15:07.570
the local pioneering families. And that church

00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:10.049
itself was... It sort of... It was used a lot,

00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:13.970
but then it fell into... Like it wasn't used,

00:15:14.190 --> 00:15:17.500
and there was... I can't remember, it would be

00:15:17.500 --> 00:15:20.159
35 years ago or so, there was an advertisement

00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:21.940
appeared in the local paper that the council

00:15:21.940 --> 00:15:24.120
was going to sell the land because that was left

00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.440
to, by David Berry, to the people of Maroo and

00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.000
also the same church was built out at Cromwell

00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.659
Point. So there was an advertisement appeared

00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:35.259
that the council were going to sell the land

00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:41.159
and Renny Marshall, Morrissey, her daughter Marcia,

00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:43.419
who lived next door to us in Lemons Lane in the

00:15:43.419 --> 00:15:46.200
old Charlie Lemond house, she was... pretty upset

00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:47.960
about that, and a lot of other people were very

00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:49.740
upset about that and said, no, this is not going

00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:53.220
to happen. And so the Maroo community got together,

00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:55.340
formed a committee called the Friends of Maroo

00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:58.019
Union Church. The Friends of Maroo Union Church

00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:01.019
took over the running and maintenance of that

00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:02.879
block of land. There's a couple of acres there.

00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.600
What era are we talking about? That's about the

00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.659
1990s or late 80s. Were you involved in that?

00:16:10.899 --> 00:16:13.320
No, but my father and mother were very involved

00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:14.980
in that. I was busy working on it. on the farm

00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:17.360
that Dad sort of had a bit more time and he was

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.379
very involved with that. And it became a focal

00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:21.940
point. They have services there and I think they

00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:24.000
still have services there probably once a month

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.419
by the different denominations. And it was very

00:16:26.419 --> 00:16:29.159
moving. We actually, our eldest daughter was

00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:33.340
married there in 2005, which was very touching

00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:37.679
and very, very special to us. And there's other

00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.840
tributes in the plaques on the wall for all the

00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:43.809
people that... from Maroo that went and served

00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:46.289
in the war or were unfortunately killed in the

00:16:46.289 --> 00:16:48.889
war as well. You said George Marshall said a

00:16:48.889 --> 00:16:53.129
few things to you before he passed. What was

00:16:53.129 --> 00:16:57.169
the context of the conversation? I was just filling

00:16:57.169 --> 00:16:59.730
in some holes that I had from... Unfortunately,

00:16:59.850 --> 00:17:02.710
after my father passed away, I had a lot of questions

00:17:02.710 --> 00:17:05.829
about Maroo that he would have known and I...

00:17:06.089 --> 00:17:08.130
I'm sort of always sorry that I never followed

00:17:08.130 --> 00:17:10.130
up on some of that things. I mean, at the time

00:17:10.130 --> 00:17:11.930
you're young and you just don't think about it

00:17:11.930 --> 00:17:14.150
and that's why I find this is so fascinating

00:17:14.150 --> 00:17:18.210
to find people that can recall all this sort

00:17:18.210 --> 00:17:22.329
of information that's important to be recorded.

00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:26.170
Yeah, he told me a bit about Charlie Lemond and

00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:29.690
I mentioned that about the sale. Describe it

00:17:29.690 --> 00:17:32.529
again. So what happened? Well, Charlie Lemond,

00:17:32.730 --> 00:17:35.990
after he died, his land was sold. Well, he had

00:17:35.990 --> 00:17:37.710
a fair bit of land around Baroo, I'm not sure

00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:43.049
how much, but he had that block on Lemons Lane

00:17:43.049 --> 00:17:45.809
on the right as you drive down, 80 -odd acres

00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:48.230
there, and that was a block of land that we ended

00:17:48.230 --> 00:17:53.849
up buying in 1973, except for the two acres that

00:17:53.849 --> 00:17:56.430
the old house, Charlie Lemons' house, is on there,

00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.829
because that was Leonard Marshall's niece, Marcia,

00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:03.869
and her husband, Ray Collins. got that old house

00:18:03.869 --> 00:18:06.470
and it had been completely run down and no one

00:18:06.470 --> 00:18:09.210
had lived in it for about 30 or 40 years and

00:18:09.210 --> 00:18:11.549
so it was a bit run down but they did a marvellous

00:18:11.549 --> 00:18:14.529
job of restoring it and bringing it back to life

00:18:14.529 --> 00:18:16.750
and it was just a credit to them the way they

00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:19.809
did that. And then they took off two acres and

00:18:19.809 --> 00:18:23.599
we purchased the other 79 acres. That was there.

00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.599
They built that in 1973. Was he? Well, after

00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.700
he passed away, I think he stayed in 1908. And

00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:32.140
then he must have had 100 acres on the swamp

00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:34.359
that my grandfather bought as well at the time.

00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:38.019
What was your grandfather's full name? His name

00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:40.380
was Albert too, but he was known as Bert Muller.

00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:44.859
And who did he marry? Bridget Morrissey. I think

00:18:44.859 --> 00:18:47.579
she was from South Australia. I'm not sure how

00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:51.880
they met or anything, but yeah. So that was...

00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.299
1908. And there's this interesting story about

00:18:56.299 --> 00:18:58.720
the, I'm not sure whether it's been mentioned,

00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.140
about the Chinaman that had a property, had a

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:03.039
couple of acres there in that corner of that

00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.019
block that we bought, virtually at the corner,

00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.839
north -eastern corner of the block, which sort

00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:10.579
of fronted Lammon's Lane and Morshall's Lane,

00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:13.539
what's now known as Morshall's Lane. There was

00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:16.680
a Chinaman there that had, used a market garden,

00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:19.339
a little market garden, and he lived in a slab

00:19:19.339 --> 00:19:22.180
hut there. He used to take his produce. grow

00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:23.559
produce there, and there's still some remains

00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.220
of pipe work and that that's still there. We

00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:29.059
could see it there after we bought the property,

00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:30.759
and it's still there now. Apparently he used

00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.559
to take his produce into the bombardier and sell

00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:35.279
it in there, but he used to go along the railway

00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.359
line, follow along the railway line with the

00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.700
horse and cart. Apparently one night, this is

00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:43.319
all according to George, he was coming back,

00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.700
I think he'd visited the pub before he came home,

00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:49.500
and he'd come back and the train hit and killed

00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:53.579
his horse. So he had no way of getting his produce

00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:57.700
into town, into Bombardier. So he moved his farm

00:19:57.700 --> 00:20:00.420
from there into an area there now, which is opposite

00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:03.039
Hanlon's windows, apparently. And he set up a

00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.000
market garden there, right near Bombardier Creek.

00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:08.660
Did you know his name? No, I don't know his name.

00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.119
So we're going back to the sale. There was a

00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.440
particular sale under a tree. Yeah, that was

00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.480
Charlie Lemon had the sale of his cattle, which

00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:17.759
would have been a big sale because he had some

00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:19.440
pretty well... He used to show his cattle. I

00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.180
think he had a pretty good herd. And he did tell

00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:24.079
me that an auctioneer from Sydney came down to

00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.779
sell them and that they washed them in the creek.

00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:28.420
You know, you're selling cattle, you've got to

00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:29.859
prepare them and make them look good. So the

00:20:29.859 --> 00:20:33.059
creek ran through the corner of that property,

00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.440
Tandingulla Creek. Was there any mention of the

00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.940
herd? What type of breed? I think they would

00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:43.200
have been Ayrshire or a shorter one. So the Ayrshire

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:45.559
breed, do you know much about that breed when

00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.940
it first came? It was probably one of the most

00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:51.900
popular breeds around. Then the Friesian. Friesians

00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.799
were introduced particularly in the 50s, late

00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.779
50s, when the Graham Park breeding facility was

00:20:57.779 --> 00:21:00.420
opened and it opened up opportunity for farmers

00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:04.200
to use semen from bulls that were from overseas.

00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:08.309
England and Canada mainly at that time. And also

00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:13.130
Australian bulls too, so Friesian herds. Do you

00:21:13.130 --> 00:21:16.210
know who bought the cattle? Probably mostly local

00:21:16.210 --> 00:21:18.549
people would have bought the cattle at that particular

00:21:18.549 --> 00:21:21.250
sale. And you said it was a type, what type of

00:21:21.250 --> 00:21:23.990
tree? Fig tree, and the big fig tree is still

00:21:23.990 --> 00:21:26.910
there, still standing. It's a strangler fig,

00:21:27.049 --> 00:21:29.930
which I learned a lot about, a bit about. Later,

00:21:29.990 --> 00:21:31.410
I didn't realise what it was at the time, but

00:21:31.410 --> 00:21:32.910
it's a strangler fig and you can actually see

00:21:32.910 --> 00:21:36.150
how it's completely strangled, probably a tea

00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:38.109
tree that was growing there. You can see the

00:21:38.109 --> 00:21:40.430
inside of the tea tree inside it. So it's probably

00:21:40.430 --> 00:21:43.309
hundreds of years old. It's fascinating. There's

00:21:43.309 --> 00:21:45.069
a couple of others down there as well doing the

00:21:45.069 --> 00:21:48.349
same thing. They would have been probably fig

00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:49.789
seeds from up in the mountain that were dropped

00:21:49.789 --> 00:21:52.190
by birds flying down from the mountain, dropped

00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:55.130
into the tree and then they germinate and slowly

00:21:55.130 --> 00:21:58.430
over hundreds of years strangle the tree, grow

00:21:58.430 --> 00:22:00.920
on the... Tree. Sent the roots down to the ground.

00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:03.339
Beautiful trees, aren't they? They are. Yeah,

00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:05.339
it was amazing. What else did George tell you?

00:22:05.420 --> 00:22:07.900
Do you remember George and Len there? Oh, yeah,

00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.079
yeah, I remember. We used to... One of the other

00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:15.240
stories was with Lemons Lane, used to run from

00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.339
the highway right down to the railway line. But

00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.779
in the early 60s, the bridge was washed out.

00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:24.799
There was an old wooden timber bridge there that

00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:29.500
was washed out. So at that stage... So they used

00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:32.440
to go down Lammers Lane to get to their property.

00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:34.960
So once that was washed out, it wasn't replaced

00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.500
by council until later on, which I'll get to.

00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:42.380
They constructed a lane just for them up what

00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:45.000
is now Marshalls Lane. They owned land on the

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.440
western side of what is now Marshalls Lane. George

00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.440
and Len both owned a bit of land there. And they

00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.440
built that road up themselves, which is the little

00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.200
tractor and pick and shovel, probably in the

00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:58.839
60s. I think when that bridge was originally

00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.240
washed out. Because we had land on the swamp,

00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:04.259
so we had to access that land too. And once that

00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:07.339
bridge was gone, we didn't have access. So what

00:23:07.339 --> 00:23:09.839
Dad and I can still remember doing it myself

00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.480
on a little pony, taking cattle down to our swamp

00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.940
block, which was over the railway line at the

00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:17.940
end of Lennards Lane. We'd have to go down Lennards

00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:20.819
Lane, then go into the Lennards property and

00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:23.759
chase the cattle through there and put them out

00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.779
down the corner and then cross the railway line

00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:29.950
into our property. So it was a big day out because

00:23:29.950 --> 00:23:33.430
Leonard would have his cattle in there or Marshalls

00:23:33.430 --> 00:23:34.650
would have their cattle in there and we'd have

00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:36.910
three or four or five cows or whatever and you'd

00:23:36.910 --> 00:23:39.509
have to keep them separate. So Dad was on horseback

00:23:39.509 --> 00:23:41.930
and had a good dog and so we were able to do

00:23:41.930 --> 00:23:44.710
that. But it was a bit of hard work. And then

00:23:44.710 --> 00:23:46.789
you'd have to bring cattle from the swamp back

00:23:46.789 --> 00:23:50.309
up the same way, reverse. We also had a property

00:23:50.309 --> 00:23:53.380
up the end of Strong's Road. a run up there,

00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:56.660
which my grandfather had purchased sometime probably

00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:59.700
in the 1920s, 30s. And to get our cattle up there,

00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:03.240
we would have to take them down Lemons Lane,

00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.980
up what is now Marshalls Lane, across the highway,

00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.920
up Devitts Lane, and then we'd chase them up

00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:12.160
through Wessie Waters Place up the side of the

00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:13.460
hill. There was a bit of a track up the side

00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:17.259
of the hill. So that was a big day out because

00:24:17.259 --> 00:24:20.599
these heifers that we used to put young stock

00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:23.160
up there. they would have never been there before,

00:24:23.259 --> 00:24:25.039
so they didn't know where they were going. So

00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.160
the best way to do it was on foot, so that's

00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:32.640
where those kids came in handy. With the dog,

00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:35.660
dad on horseback, we'd herd them up the side

00:24:35.660 --> 00:24:38.119
of the mountain and get them up to the top, put

00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.559
them in a yard, and then there'd be some up there

00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.680
that'd have to come back, so we'd have to bring

00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:44.059
some back because they might have to go with

00:24:44.059 --> 00:24:46.180
the bull. They were old enough to be mated and

00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:48.859
come into the herd, so we'd have to reverse the

00:24:48.859 --> 00:24:50.670
procedure and bring them back down. through Wessig

00:24:50.670 --> 00:24:53.369
Waters, down Devitts Lane, back across the highway,

00:24:53.549 --> 00:24:56.609
all the way back home. So it was a big day out.

00:24:57.269 --> 00:25:00.809
And that happened up until about the 1970s, early

00:25:00.809 --> 00:25:04.369
1970s. We'd purchased this other land at Leonard

00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:06.730
Marshall's block. We'd also purchased a bit of

00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:09.750
George Marshall's block, 25 acres over the creek,

00:25:09.849 --> 00:25:12.990
beside the lane that's now Marshall's Lane. And

00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:15.970
Dad used to share that with his brother, Norman,

00:25:16.049 --> 00:25:18.940
who lived in Muller's Lane. He had a dairy farm

00:25:18.940 --> 00:25:20.519
there too, and he used to put some of his stock

00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:23.039
up there. But he used to truck them up there

00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.779
and jump off a truck up there, which we probably

00:25:26.779 --> 00:25:28.140
should have done that too. It would have been

00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:30.660
a lot easier. So you didn't need to cross the

00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:34.119
highway and go up. You sold the land up at Strongsville.

00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:37.099
Yeah, eventually Dad and his brother Norman sold

00:25:37.099 --> 00:25:40.839
that land, and we didn't need that because we

00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.259
had more land, and we bought other land as well,

00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.940
which was George Martin's, which was Tom Hitchcock's.

00:25:47.230 --> 00:25:51.049
farm. We bought 65 acres of that in 1981 as well

00:25:51.049 --> 00:25:54.609
so we had eventually ended up with all our land.

00:25:55.190 --> 00:25:58.329
How many acres did you end up with and how many

00:25:58.329 --> 00:26:01.710
cows are you milking? We ended up with 360 acres

00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:07.089
about. We sold the swamp block in 2000 and we

00:26:07.089 --> 00:26:10.369
bought part of Liz Vaughan's farm which used

00:26:10.369 --> 00:26:13.309
to belong to one stage by my great uncle Jacob

00:26:13.309 --> 00:26:16.299
Muller. We didn't either. the mountain block

00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:18.839
anymore which was a good thing it was always

00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:22.759
hard work going up there we um oh just just you

00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:24.299
just about get the heifers to the top and then

00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:26.180
one at bolt and straight down to the bottom so

00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:27.660
you'd have to let them all go back down start

00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:29.640
all over again that was pretty well and what

00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.619
are you carrying with you like what are you doing

00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:34.380
you just using your hands yeah just on foot might

00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:36.500
have that had stock whip and the dog get them

00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:38.019
on the track and hopefully they stay there was

00:26:38.019 --> 00:26:40.000
a lot of work a lot of hard work but that was

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:43.950
just what we did yes So your father's full name,

00:26:44.089 --> 00:26:47.390
and who did he marry? He was Albert Muller, Albert

00:26:47.390 --> 00:26:50.349
Timothy Muller, and he married Veronica Walsh,

00:26:50.349 --> 00:26:55.569
or Vonnie, as she's known right through the community.

00:26:55.789 --> 00:27:00.069
In 1948 they were married. Yes, and what year

00:27:00.069 --> 00:27:04.250
was he born? Dad and Mum were both born in 1924.

00:27:05.049 --> 00:27:07.190
And Vonnie's still alive? Vonnie's still alive,

00:27:07.369 --> 00:27:10.049
yeah, just turned 100. And what about your siblings

00:27:10.049 --> 00:27:12.369
and their names and years? Two older brothers,

00:27:12.490 --> 00:27:16.450
Michael is 75, Greg's 73, then me and my sister

00:27:16.450 --> 00:27:21.509
Kathy, she's 69, Brian is 66 and Margaret and

00:27:21.509 --> 00:27:23.630
then David, so David's the youngest, he's 61.

00:27:24.190 --> 00:27:26.569
There's a few of you helping out with the cows?

00:27:26.809 --> 00:27:29.049
Yeah, when it was required around the farm, yeah,

00:27:29.130 --> 00:27:31.690
we all chipped in, we all had jobs to do, we

00:27:31.690 --> 00:27:33.930
all helped with the milking. Because we were

00:27:33.930 --> 00:27:37.029
all off at school, he had to employ labour, which

00:27:37.029 --> 00:27:39.109
was always a problem, to try getting good labour.

00:27:39.170 --> 00:27:42.910
I know Mum did an enormous amount of work, and

00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:47.109
we really respect what Mum did, because she was,

00:27:47.210 --> 00:27:49.769
apart from raising her seven kids, she was keeping

00:27:49.769 --> 00:27:52.089
the house, helping Dad, doing different chores

00:27:52.089 --> 00:27:54.130
and everything, and she was very involved in

00:27:54.130 --> 00:27:57.369
the community as well, so she was amazing. So

00:27:57.369 --> 00:27:59.589
what was she doing in the community? Originally

00:27:59.589 --> 00:28:02.930
with the school, with the school and the church,

00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:06.329
she was on the PNCs and PNFs at St Michael's

00:28:06.329 --> 00:28:08.849
and the church. She was very involved with the

00:28:08.849 --> 00:28:12.009
Catholic church in Nara and the choir and things

00:28:12.009 --> 00:28:15.930
like that. So your father was a volunteer for

00:28:15.930 --> 00:28:17.750
the rural fire? Yeah, they were volunteers, yeah,

00:28:17.829 --> 00:28:21.069
and they had a bit of equipment at Baroo. And

00:28:21.069 --> 00:28:23.730
one thing, they were involved in fighting the

00:28:23.730 --> 00:28:28.119
fires. Fires occurred in 1968. And we were up

00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.359
on the hill near towards our run and up the back

00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:32.680
near Boxall's up that way, a bit further around

00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:34.859
towards the north. I remember going up there

00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:37.339
with the knapsacks and the rakes and just trying

00:28:37.339 --> 00:28:39.660
to beat it all out, stop it burning. Burnt right

00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:41.720
down to the highway nearly at Jasper's Brush

00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.160
that year. It was a very dry year. How intense

00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.680
was that fighting it? I was only 14, 14 years

00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.559
old then, 14, 15 years old. It was, yeah, it

00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.960
was pretty intense. And, you know, the sky was

00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:55.680
just, I can't, whether you can remember what

00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:57.900
it was like. Four or five years ago, we met those

00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:00.440
big fires. It was just like that. The sky was

00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:02.359
black. There was ash falling everywhere. It was

00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:05.660
pretty horrible. It was very scary. Yeah, ominous

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:08.640
-looking sky. How much milk were you producing

00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.039
a day? I'd say when I started going milking,

00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:15.519
working with Dad in 1973. When I left school

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:17.279
in 1971, I wasn't sure what I was going to do.

00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.720
The opportunity came up to start doing accountancy.

00:29:20.059 --> 00:29:22.759
It was the sort of career that Dad and Mum envisaged

00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.539
would be good for us kids. We didn't think dairy

00:29:25.539 --> 00:29:27.140
farming wasn't... You know, you can do something

00:29:27.140 --> 00:29:28.839
better than dairy farming. Dairy farming was

00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:32.240
considered a good occupation, but hard work,

00:29:32.299 --> 00:29:34.519
obviously. But he wanted something better for

00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:36.619
all of us. And I thought, well, I'll give it

00:29:36.619 --> 00:29:39.099
a go. And so I started with a local accountancy

00:29:39.099 --> 00:29:41.720
firm in town. It was Ross of Leslie and Payne

00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.339
at the time and became John Tobin and Co. And

00:29:45.339 --> 00:29:46.920
John Tobin, I was very grateful to him, gave

00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.380
me that opportunity as a 17 -year -old straight

00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:51.619
out of school to start doing accountancy, which

00:29:51.619 --> 00:29:53.920
was something very new to me because I did not

00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:55.480
know the difference between a debit and a credit.

00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.180
But I quickly learnt. And so all the books were

00:29:59.180 --> 00:30:01.039
done by hand then. They were all written up.

00:30:01.099 --> 00:30:02.980
Cash books were written up, journals and ledgers

00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:05.579
and everything. So I quickly learnt how it all

00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:08.140
worked together. So after about two years there,

00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.599
I suppose I was a bit restless. I always thought

00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:12.740
I would end up doing something outdoors. I was

00:30:12.740 --> 00:30:15.420
looking at national parks or forestry or agriculture

00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:17.420
or something. When I ended up in an office, I

00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:21.759
was a bit surprised in a way. But it would have

00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:23.319
been a good career, but it wasn't for me. So

00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:25.240
I had to come and tell Dad and Mum that I was...

00:30:25.450 --> 00:30:26.569
wanted to leave that and wanted to come work

00:30:26.569 --> 00:30:28.650
on the farm. Massive turnover of labour, getting

00:30:28.650 --> 00:30:31.650
good, reliable labour. Why is that? Oh, it's

00:30:31.650 --> 00:30:34.069
just getting people prepared to work hard, and

00:30:34.069 --> 00:30:35.470
it's still the same today. And you've got to

00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:38.029
have someone that's trustworthy and you're working

00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:40.470
with your cattle and all the machinery and everything.

00:30:40.650 --> 00:30:42.710
So I told Dad I wanted to come work on the farm

00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:44.829
and he said, no, you've got to finish your accountancy

00:30:44.829 --> 00:30:46.769
course first. I said, righto, I'll do that. I

00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:49.089
was doing it by correspondence, but that didn't

00:30:49.089 --> 00:30:51.369
last very long. And he just said, well, I'm glad

00:30:51.369 --> 00:30:52.970
you're here, but I hope you don't regret what

00:30:52.970 --> 00:30:55.099
you did, and I never did. I learned a lot in

00:30:55.099 --> 00:30:58.799
those two years doing accountancy, so I was able

00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:02.000
to do the books right up until now. Yes. I understood

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.519
it all. It's difficult correspondence, I would

00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.099
imagine, when you're isolated as well. Yeah,

00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:09.519
it was, but there was no computers around then,

00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:11.559
so that's the only way I could do the course

00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:14.140
was by correspondence. By post? By post, yeah.

00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:16.380
Do your assignments, post them away and get the

00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:18.579
results back and then do the next assignment

00:31:18.579 --> 00:31:22.619
and post it away. You talked last, your family

00:31:22.619 --> 00:31:25.240
had some connection to the post office. Everyone

00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:26.680
in Maroo had a connection to the post office

00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.440
because it was central. The school, the post

00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.259
office and the church were central too. And a

00:31:32.259 --> 00:31:34.559
lot of the other little communities around the

00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:37.660
district were all much the same. Yeah, we used

00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:39.900
to, the post office and the telephone exchange,

00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.299
I can still remember going, knock on the window

00:31:42.299 --> 00:31:46.279
to get our mail and, you know, Ada Marshall would

00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:48.380
be there and then she'd say, excuse me, and she'd

00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:50.400
have to, the phone would ring and she'd... put

00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.759
the plugs in to connect the phones. The switchboard.

00:31:53.779 --> 00:31:55.400
The switchboard on the big switch. I can still

00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:58.579
picture it in my mind. And also they had a small

00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:02.420
dairy there and we ended up, that ended up leasing

00:32:02.420 --> 00:32:04.319
that dairy there because it had a quota on it,

00:32:04.339 --> 00:32:08.579
a 20 -gallon quota on it. And at that time, if

00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:10.279
you wanted to grow your business, you could buy

00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.539
a quota or lease land that had quota on it and

00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:16.140
bring it to your... property so that's what we

00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:18.839
leased that for about 23 years i think off ada

00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:20.500
and polly and then when they passed away it was

00:32:20.500 --> 00:32:23.059
their estate and eventually they sold it and

00:32:23.059 --> 00:32:25.900
so we used to run put cattle up there same thing

00:32:25.900 --> 00:32:27.740
we used to run them across the highway until

00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:30.000
it got too busy and then we bought a trailer

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.599
and we could take them up on a tractor how did

00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.180
you manage the traffic on the highway well it

00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:37.599
was nowhere near like it is now if we were shifting

00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.000
the cattle up to our mountain block we would

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.279
um there'd be there were always plenty of us

00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.250
so we just stopped the traffic Someone would

00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:45.430
stand out in the middle of the road, traffic

00:32:45.430 --> 00:32:47.069
would stop, push the cows across and away we

00:32:47.069 --> 00:32:50.670
go. Did you separate the calves? We made sure

00:32:50.670 --> 00:32:52.930
they were always at home on the dairy. We had

00:32:52.930 --> 00:32:58.490
a separate place where they'd calve. We did separate

00:32:58.490 --> 00:33:00.349
them. It was always hard, but that's what we

00:33:00.349 --> 00:33:03.490
did, particularly there for calves. We were rearing

00:33:03.490 --> 00:33:06.390
them up for the herd for replacements. So you

00:33:06.390 --> 00:33:09.410
leased how much land from the Marshall girls?

00:33:09.670 --> 00:33:12.289
There was only 25 acres there. But we'd end up

00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:14.579
buying... I'll just run through the purchases.

00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:19.279
1967, Dad bought 25 acres on the eastern end

00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:20.880
of the property, which joined the property, the

00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.859
original 86 acres, off George Marshall in 1967.

00:33:24.859 --> 00:33:28.640
Then in 1973, he bought the other 89 acres off

00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.259
Leonard Marshall. That's where Jeanette and I

00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:36.480
built our home on that block. 1981, Fred Martin

00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.380
and Fred and Mari Martin and their son John were...

00:33:39.690 --> 00:33:41.230
They were only a small operation. They were milking

00:33:41.230 --> 00:33:44.289
35 cows, 40 cows. They decided they'd had enough,

00:33:44.410 --> 00:33:47.309
so they got out. Fred was getting on a bit in

00:33:47.309 --> 00:33:50.029
age, and John didn't want to keep on milking,

00:33:50.089 --> 00:33:53.769
so we bought 65 acres there. In 2000, we bought

00:33:53.769 --> 00:33:56.769
the Poet of Les Vaughans, which was originally

00:33:56.769 --> 00:33:59.769
owned by my great -uncle, Jacob Muller. There

00:33:59.769 --> 00:34:04.869
were 65 acres there. In 2006, there was another

00:34:04.869 --> 00:34:07.549
block which ended up being right in the middle

00:34:07.549 --> 00:34:09.900
of our... All the land that we'd owned and purchased

00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:12.639
that we'd been leasing for about 15 or 20 years

00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:16.480
was the estate of Artie Hearn. And we bought

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:20.039
40 acres there and we had an arrangement with

00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:24.739
another fellow, Glenn Mitchell, who lived at

00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:27.079
Jasper's Brush and we ended up with 40 acres

00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.300
and he got 10 acre blocks there. So that ended

00:34:29.300 --> 00:34:32.460
up, after selling the swamp block when we purchased

00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.360
Les Vaughans block, we ended up with about 360

00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:38.329
acres, all in. all joined together, which made

00:34:38.329 --> 00:34:41.489
it really easy to manage. It was a lot to manage,

00:34:41.570 --> 00:34:44.949
but it was... So you had 360 acres in total.

00:34:45.230 --> 00:34:48.909
Yeah. Is that the biggest land you had? Yeah,

00:34:48.929 --> 00:34:51.269
that was the most we ever owned. And how many

00:34:51.269 --> 00:34:53.889
cows are you... And what are you growing? When

00:34:53.889 --> 00:34:57.130
we finished up in... When I finished up in about

00:34:57.130 --> 00:35:00.670
2012, we were milking about 180 cows. When I

00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:02.670
started out in 1973, we would have been milking

00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:06.539
about 70. So we've grown just... Gradually over

00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:08.719
that period of time. But we would have had over

00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:12.179
300 head altogether with replacement heifers

00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:14.619
and dry cows. Who's collecting your milk? Originally

00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:16.360
we were sent into the Narra Dairy Company and

00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:18.980
then Narra Dairy Company had an amalgamation

00:35:18.980 --> 00:35:22.940
about 1989 -90 with Hunter Valley Dairy Farmers

00:35:22.940 --> 00:35:25.820
and Shellhaven Dairy Company formed Australian

00:35:25.820 --> 00:35:28.039
Cooperative Foods and they were still going into

00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:30.679
Narra. But Narra had built a new factory there

00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:34.900
which is now part of the Manildra Group there.

00:35:35.630 --> 00:35:38.130
by a long road. So they built that factory in

00:35:38.130 --> 00:35:41.510
1986. A milk factory? Yeah, a new milk factory

00:35:41.510 --> 00:35:44.309
there. And then that became Dairy Farmers, Dairy

00:35:44.309 --> 00:35:47.110
Farmers and Milk Company, cooperative. And how

00:35:47.110 --> 00:35:49.650
did Maroo get on with Jasper's Brush and Berry

00:35:49.650 --> 00:35:53.349
Milk Cooperative? That was sort of way back.

00:35:53.489 --> 00:35:56.269
Berry Cooperative was still operating then. They

00:35:56.269 --> 00:35:59.190
opted not to become part of the amalgamation.

00:35:59.909 --> 00:36:02.690
And they proved to be very successful in their

00:36:02.690 --> 00:36:04.289
own right. But even though it was a small cooperative,

00:36:04.389 --> 00:36:07.380
it seemed to... go pretty well but back in the

00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:10.800
day there was uh maria cooperative which i think

00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:12.179
was on the corner of maria road and the highway

00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:14.099
there somewhere there or near fletcher's lane

00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:18.139
jasper's brush factory and i think dad my grandfather

00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:21.280
used to supply jasper's brush factory i can recall

00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:24.760
too in some writings that my uncle norman did

00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:27.500
that he he used to drive take the milk to the

00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:29.760
factory you know when he was only 14 he'd drive

00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.519
the drive the truck to the jasper's brush factory

00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:36.570
you Dodge truck, I think, he had. How much would

00:36:36.570 --> 00:36:38.250
he have on the back of that? I don't know. It

00:36:38.250 --> 00:36:39.809
might have been only about eight or ten, eight

00:36:39.809 --> 00:36:41.449
cans or something like that, ten cans, which

00:36:41.449 --> 00:36:44.449
was about 80 gallons. But then they were doing

00:36:44.449 --> 00:36:47.409
butter then, Berry Factory, but then they started

00:36:47.409 --> 00:36:49.429
to send their milk to Sydney. They had to spend

00:36:49.429 --> 00:36:51.289
a lot of money to upgrade the Jasper's Brush

00:36:51.289 --> 00:36:53.210
Factory. They couldn't do it, so they decided

00:36:53.210 --> 00:36:56.389
to shut down. And I think half the supplies around

00:36:56.389 --> 00:36:59.289
the Jasper's Brush River area went to Berry and

00:36:59.289 --> 00:37:01.730
the other half went to Nara, my great -grandfather's.

00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.019
Ended up taking his milk to Narra, and he actually

00:37:05.019 --> 00:37:06.679
started carting, and then he started carting

00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.500
milk for other farmers in the Murray area as

00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:13.119
well. He had a Dodge truck. Tell me about that

00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.440
house. You were talking about a house that was

00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.820
moved. Yeah, well, that's the house down Lemons

00:37:18.820 --> 00:37:23.440
Lane that Charlie Lemon built, or he moved part

00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:27.880
of it to there, obviously just after he purchased

00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:31.650
the land there. Where did he move it from? Narra

00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:35.050
Hill. Apparently he had a tannery out there and

00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:37.409
it was part of the house he probably lived in

00:37:37.409 --> 00:37:40.130
there and he moved that to Maroo and then probably

00:37:40.130 --> 00:37:41.869
added on to it. I'm not sure who the builder

00:37:41.869 --> 00:37:46.130
was. I don't believe it was my great -uncle George.

00:37:46.369 --> 00:37:49.250
I think it was someone else. But it's a lovely

00:37:49.250 --> 00:37:51.829
old house in the same style as Pomona. It's a

00:37:51.829 --> 00:37:53.750
beautiful old home now. It's been lovingly restored

00:37:53.750 --> 00:37:55.929
by, first of all, Ray and Marcia Collins and

00:37:55.929 --> 00:37:58.750
then the current owners, the other people. A

00:37:58.750 --> 00:38:00.670
couple have moved down from Sydney and they've

00:38:00.670 --> 00:38:02.949
done an amazing job in restoring it. How would

00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:06.130
they have moved that house? I don't know. Might

00:38:06.130 --> 00:38:09.010
have pulled it to bits and restructured it and

00:38:09.010 --> 00:38:11.090
probably would have been horse and cart for sure.

00:38:11.429 --> 00:38:13.989
Do you remember butter trails yourself, logging

00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:17.570
trails? After those fires went through in 1969,

00:38:17.989 --> 00:38:22.250
we went up after the fires. We had cattle up

00:38:22.250 --> 00:38:23.869
there under the mountain, under the escarpment,

00:38:23.869 --> 00:38:25.809
and we couldn't find them. Eventually we found

00:38:25.809 --> 00:38:28.059
them. They were right up on top of the escarpment.

00:38:28.099 --> 00:38:30.119
How they got there was there was an old pony

00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:31.940
trail that went up the side of the mountain around

00:38:31.940 --> 00:38:34.619
the edge of the property that we owned there.

00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:37.619
And they must have found that and gone up. So

00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:40.920
we had to go up and chase them back down. So

00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:43.960
it was pretty steep. Mum's brothers, Tom and

00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:46.860
Ted Walsh. Mum moved from Kangaroo Valley to

00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:50.260
Farm Meadow when she was 12 years old. And they

00:38:50.260 --> 00:38:52.500
still had a property in Kangaroo Valley. But

00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.019
they were out at Farm Meadow. And Tom and Ted...

00:38:55.230 --> 00:38:57.090
When they were only about 12 years old, they

00:38:57.090 --> 00:38:59.530
would move cattle on horseback from Farm Meadow

00:38:59.530 --> 00:39:01.969
over Berry, up over the mountain to Kangaroo

00:39:01.969 --> 00:39:04.309
Valley. It must have taken two or three days.

00:39:04.389 --> 00:39:06.269
Their mother would have packed all their lunch

00:39:06.269 --> 00:39:08.409
there. They went over there and they'd bring

00:39:08.409 --> 00:39:11.630
cattle back as well. Uncle Norman, he kept a...

00:39:11.630 --> 00:39:13.909
He just wrote a bit about his life story, which

00:39:13.909 --> 00:39:15.949
was really fascinating. You might find out more

00:39:15.949 --> 00:39:19.289
about that if you talk to Peter Muller, who lived

00:39:19.289 --> 00:39:22.389
in Mullis Lane. He talks of when he was 14, living

00:39:22.389 --> 00:39:26.230
at Pomona, he would take... cattle from Pomona

00:39:26.230 --> 00:39:29.789
down to his uncle Jim Ryan's place down to Piree

00:39:29.789 --> 00:39:32.929
drive them all the way on horseback in through

00:39:32.929 --> 00:39:35.750
town down to Piree mother would have to give

00:39:35.750 --> 00:39:37.690
a note for him to take to school to say he wouldn't

00:39:37.690 --> 00:39:39.309
be at school tomorrow because he'd be shifting

00:39:39.309 --> 00:39:41.829
cattle remember that there was nowhere near the

00:39:41.829 --> 00:39:45.250
amount of people traffic houses around then it

00:39:45.250 --> 00:39:47.070
would have been just a basically a dirt road

00:39:47.070 --> 00:39:49.369
into town probably across the bridge and they

00:39:49.369 --> 00:39:51.849
used to take cattle into the sale yards in town

00:39:51.849 --> 00:39:54.570
too. Dad spoke about that. He used to drive cattle

00:39:54.570 --> 00:39:56.369
into the sale yards on horseback. Where's the

00:39:56.369 --> 00:39:58.829
sale yards? The sale yards used to be opposite

00:39:58.829 --> 00:40:01.010
the Ex -Servicemen's Club in there, where the

00:40:01.010 --> 00:40:03.670
car park is. That was moved from there in the

00:40:03.670 --> 00:40:05.630
early 70s, I think, out to where it is now in

00:40:05.630 --> 00:40:08.849
Mossvale Road. One story I hear is people would

00:40:08.849 --> 00:40:10.690
be driving their cattle up Bridge Road because

00:40:10.690 --> 00:40:12.789
that was the old highway then. People would make

00:40:12.789 --> 00:40:15.550
sure they left their gates closed because the

00:40:15.550 --> 00:40:18.670
cattle could get into their yard. I heard one

00:40:18.670 --> 00:40:20.780
story of a... I'm not sure whether it was my

00:40:20.780 --> 00:40:23.199
father or someone else was chasing cattle up

00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:24.760
there and someone had left their gate open. The

00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:26.659
front door was open. The cow went straight up

00:40:26.659 --> 00:40:28.119
through the front gate, through the front door

00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:31.380
and out the back door. So there's all sorts of

00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:34.119
stories like that that you can pick up from around

00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:38.059
the place. Yeah, it's just a different life and

00:40:38.059 --> 00:40:41.820
different times. Great visual. Yeah, yeah. So

00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:45.739
let's talk about crops and mechanisation. What

00:40:45.739 --> 00:40:47.619
sort of tractors did you have on the property?

00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:51.519
Were you growing corn or did you have silos?

00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:56.179
Yeah, the silo on Pomona was built and the stalls

00:40:56.179 --> 00:41:00.579
were built, I think, in about the 1940s. Yeah,

00:41:00.619 --> 00:41:03.059
they used to grow corn and saccharine and millet

00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:06.059
and there was a pit down near the creek on Pomona

00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:08.280
where they used to put it into that. They'd just

00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.639
cut it and put it in and then they'd cover it

00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:13.079
to preserve it. Then when they'd go to feed it

00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:14.579
out in the winter, they would have to dig it

00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:17.210
out. And then they'd put it through a chaff cutter

00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:19.469
to chop it up for the cattle to eat and feed

00:41:19.469 --> 00:41:21.469
it out in bags, actually. So it was a lot of

00:41:21.469 --> 00:41:23.170
hard work then. But then after they built the

00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:27.429
silo, they grew corn, cut that by hand and put

00:41:27.429 --> 00:41:29.610
it up through the chaff cutter up into the silo.

00:41:29.710 --> 00:41:32.510
And my dad was only milking about 40, 50 cows

00:41:32.510 --> 00:41:34.409
then. That was enough to keep them going for

00:41:34.409 --> 00:41:36.289
two or three months. Pretty exciting time for

00:41:36.289 --> 00:41:38.510
us. A lot of hard work for the adults. When I

00:41:38.510 --> 00:41:39.989
got a bit older, obviously, I was doing the work

00:41:39.989 --> 00:41:42.329
too, cutting corn by hand and loading it onto

00:41:42.329 --> 00:41:45.349
the trailers. putting it through the chaff cutter

00:41:45.349 --> 00:41:47.449
and up into the silo, and then you'd have to

00:41:47.449 --> 00:41:49.070
get up in the silo and spread it with a fork

00:41:49.070 --> 00:41:51.349
and tramp it all down to get all the air out,

00:41:51.449 --> 00:41:53.670
and then we'd cover it up with a bit of sawdust,

00:41:53.670 --> 00:41:56.809
and time come to feed it out, you'd have to fork

00:41:56.809 --> 00:41:59.289
it all back out into a trolley that we had. I'll

00:41:59.289 --> 00:42:02.429
never forget the smell of the corn silo. To me,

00:42:02.510 --> 00:42:04.469
it's a beautiful smell. When it's made properly,

00:42:04.590 --> 00:42:07.309
it's just a really beautiful smell, and the cows

00:42:07.309 --> 00:42:09.539
loved it, so you'd have to seal it. It always

00:42:09.539 --> 00:42:11.159
lives a bit off the top, which we'd have to toss

00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:13.739
out. When you talk about the pit, you're talking

00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:16.079
about a large hole in the ground, are you? Yeah,

00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:19.460
that was, yeah. That's what we had. How early

00:42:19.460 --> 00:42:22.760
would that pit have been operating? Oh, I don't

00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:24.179
know when they would have built that. Probably

00:42:24.179 --> 00:42:27.460
possibly in the 1930s, 40s. Would that have been

00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:30.659
a risk with flooding? No, it was just above the

00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:32.380
flood level where they had it. A lot of people

00:42:32.380 --> 00:42:34.159
used to store it above ground. You still see

00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:36.320
it now around the district there. store it above

00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.260
ground then they cover it with plastic and then

00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:40.320
seal it off with ties or whatever you just got

00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:41.960
to keep the air out of it and that's basically

00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:44.320
what the silos did we'd feed it out in a fork

00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:45.900
it into a tray then fork it onto the individual

00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:47.840
stalls and the cows would come in you have a

00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:49.619
headlock so you'd lock them in place so that

00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:52.059
they couldn't get out how big were your feed

00:42:52.059 --> 00:42:55.280
stalls how many we fed we had 32 16 each side

00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:57.079
fair size so some of them used to be bigger than

00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:59.260
that some smaller depending on the size of the

00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:01.949
herd But then eventually we got too many cows,

00:43:01.969 --> 00:43:04.510
it was too many to feed in the stall, so we stopped

00:43:04.510 --> 00:43:06.510
using the silos because we had that many cows,

00:43:06.570 --> 00:43:07.969
you couldn't get enough food into it. And by

00:43:07.969 --> 00:43:10.130
that time we were starting to make round bale

00:43:10.130 --> 00:43:13.449
silage. How did you make that? You cut the grass,

00:43:13.670 --> 00:43:16.670
good grass, ryegrass, clover pastures in the

00:43:16.670 --> 00:43:18.750
spring mainly. You don't have to wilt it for

00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:21.190
a day or two. Get most of the moisture out of

00:43:21.190 --> 00:43:23.090
it, you bale it up with a bit of moisture in

00:43:23.090 --> 00:43:25.150
it and then wrap it in the plastic that you see

00:43:25.150 --> 00:43:27.739
all around the place now. Much quicker and easier

00:43:27.739 --> 00:43:29.639
way. It was a one -man operation basically to

00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.900
do that. We ended up buying our own baler and

00:43:31.900 --> 00:43:34.119
wrapper and we could do it whenever we wanted

00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:36.260
to. That was in about the 90s we started doing

00:43:36.260 --> 00:43:37.940
that. Prior to that it was all little bales of

00:43:37.940 --> 00:43:40.699
hay and hay sheds. What about stooking the hay?

00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:42.480
Do you remember that at all? No, I don't, thank

00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:44.500
goodness. That would have been hard work. Tell

00:43:44.500 --> 00:43:47.239
the listeners what that stooking is. That's when

00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.739
the grass is cut because there's no machines

00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:53.460
to pick it up and bale it, so to speak. I think

00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:55.139
there was a rake that we used to sort of drag

00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:58.539
a row into a heap and then they'd have to be...

00:43:58.539 --> 00:44:00.619
I think they just used to tie it up and wrap

00:44:00.619 --> 00:44:02.519
it up. It looked a bit like a teepee, didn't

00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.659
it? Yeah, something like that. They'd wrap it

00:44:03.659 --> 00:44:05.139
up like that. And then I think they used to...

00:44:05.139 --> 00:44:07.280
Yeah, in hay sheds or whatever. Yeah, they would

00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.400
have put it up in the hay shed. Yeah, it would

00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:10.460
have had to have been pretty dry. Because they've

00:44:10.460 --> 00:44:12.659
got to put it... Do you remember a slide operating

00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:15.239
at all in the field? Oh, yeah, we had a slide

00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:17.820
that we used to use cutting the corn. We'd load

00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:19.559
the corn on it because the slide was low so you

00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.099
didn't have to lift it up. We had trolleys as

00:44:22.099 --> 00:44:24.110
well. I can still remember the slide being actually

00:44:24.110 --> 00:44:26.230
pulled by the drafter also. Tell me about your

00:44:26.230 --> 00:44:28.309
first tractors that you remember and what may

00:44:28.309 --> 00:44:31.610
have been, who supplied them, do you know? Do

00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:34.710
you have any with metal wheels at all, like scallifying?

00:44:35.030 --> 00:44:37.329
No, I can't remember any of the metal wheels,

00:44:37.369 --> 00:44:39.750
but the first one I think was a little international

00:44:39.750 --> 00:44:43.389
B275, I think, that Dad would have bought from,

00:44:43.449 --> 00:44:46.300
would have been. They were called Truck and Farm

00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:48.500
there. They were down in East Street now. Fred

00:44:48.500 --> 00:44:50.699
Porter was the owner of that. Dad used to buy

00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:53.300
it. He bought a slasher off him and the ploughs

00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:54.860
and everything. Oh, everything was small then

00:44:54.860 --> 00:44:56.260
because they had to be with the... They were

00:44:56.260 --> 00:44:58.360
only about a 40 -horsepower tractor, 45 -horsepower

00:44:58.360 --> 00:44:59.900
tractor, so you couldn't have too big a machine.

00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:03.320
The machine would shoot the tractor, so eventually

00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:06.880
we got up to over 100 -horsepower tractors. When

00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:09.199
we finished, then your machinery got bigger and

00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:10.760
bigger as you went because you were working more

00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:13.719
and more land. What about your cows? What's the

00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.480
evolution for you? Well, when I was younger,

00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:19.780
I only remember the air shears, basically nearly

00:45:19.780 --> 00:45:23.380
all air shears. And then in the 60s, early 60s,

00:45:23.380 --> 00:45:28.000
Dad started to use the AI, cross the air shears

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.639
with freezing balls. Generally, you'd get a black

00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:33.099
and white calf. In 1973, there probably would

00:45:33.099 --> 00:45:37.619
have been about 50, 50 air shearing. And eventually

00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:40.900
we, crossing the Ayrshire cows with Friesians,

00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:43.719
after five generations you could have what could

00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:47.780
be considered a purebred Friesian. So eventually

00:45:47.780 --> 00:45:51.599
we bred out all the Ayrshire. The Ayrshires provided,

00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:53.820
some of the Ayrshire cows we had were good Ayrshires

00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:57.019
and they provided a very good base for some of

00:45:57.019 --> 00:45:59.199
the Friesian cows we ended up breeding. We had

00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.880
some very good families come from the Ayrshire

00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.739
cows that we had. Did you have a stud name? Yeah,

00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.380
we did. And of course that was Pomona. So by

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:11.639
the time we, about 2000 or so, the whole herd

00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:14.519
was pretty well, all fully registered. And we

00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.760
had a very good herd. We didn't show cattle.

00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.480
Did dabble in it once or twice, but it was a

00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.440
lot of work. And I didn't have the time. And

00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:26.219
actually, my dad and grandfather, they used to

00:46:26.219 --> 00:46:29.159
show some of their heirs shears. And he got reserve

00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.159
champions to show Bullet, Nara, two years in

00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.159
a row. Basil. Yeah, I've still got his photo.

00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:37.260
I've got it hanging up in the wall at home. Yeah,

00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:38.880
Dad would have bred a lot of cattle from him,

00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:42.059
and I can't recall. That was before my time.

00:46:42.099 --> 00:46:45.139
That was in 1951, 1952. One thing with the Friesian

00:46:45.139 --> 00:46:48.619
herd we did, eventually right at the end when

00:46:48.619 --> 00:46:51.000
we finished up, they have what they call a Master

00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:55.239
Breeder Award, which is awarded to breeders in

00:46:55.239 --> 00:46:58.519
the Friesian herd. It's based on results over

00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:00.809
a 20 -year period and the number of... cattle

00:47:00.809 --> 00:47:02.710
you breed and type and all that sort of thing.

00:47:02.750 --> 00:47:05.969
And you have to get more points for your herd

00:47:05.969 --> 00:47:08.170
than the number of animals you breed over that

00:47:08.170 --> 00:47:10.230
20 -year period. Yeah, but we ended up with a

00:47:10.230 --> 00:47:13.409
Master Breeder Award, which was really a feather

00:47:13.409 --> 00:47:15.869
in our cap and something that I felt very proud

00:47:15.869 --> 00:47:18.570
of achieving. We both felt very proud of achieving

00:47:18.570 --> 00:47:22.329
after all that time. And unfortunately, Dad wasn't

00:47:22.329 --> 00:47:25.260
available around to see that. So I might just

00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:28.119
ask you at this point, your wife, and you met

00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:31.519
her somehow connected to... Rural youth was very

00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:34.340
big in the early 70s. And when I started working

00:47:34.340 --> 00:47:36.360
on the farm, I started to make contact with other

00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:38.980
farmers, obviously, and the rural youth organisation.

00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:41.699
So I started going to rural youth. It was focused

00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:45.119
on social and educational type of organisation

00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:48.440
for young people, basically from 18 to 30. There

00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:50.920
was actually Department of Agriculture officers

00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:54.139
spread throughout the state. I think it was about

00:47:54.139 --> 00:47:57.900
seven different regions, field days and educational

00:47:57.900 --> 00:48:00.739
activities for the various rural youth clubs

00:48:00.739 --> 00:48:04.960
in the regions. So I became involved in that.

00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:07.320
I actually became president for a couple of years

00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:10.559
and I was fortunate enough to win an exchange

00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.840
trip to the Waikato region in New Zealand. They

00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.119
had a reciprocal arrangement with the South Coast

00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:19.480
region, New South Wales. When I came back, there

00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:21.880
was a new girl in the club and that was Jeanette.

00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:27.659
Jeanette King, and she was one of the kings from

00:48:27.659 --> 00:48:30.820
Numba and the other side of the river. Her father

00:48:30.820 --> 00:48:33.539
was Rex, and parents were Rex and Daisy, and

00:48:33.539 --> 00:48:35.579
they were part of the Numba Park farm down there.

00:48:35.659 --> 00:48:38.320
Her uncle Brian and father Rex were running the

00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:40.980
Numba Park stud. And then we were married in

00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:43.500
1978 and brought our family up there, living

00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:46.139
in the middle of the farm, and it was a wonderful

00:48:46.139 --> 00:48:49.360
experience and very, very fortunate. And it was

00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:51.059
a wonderful environment to bring up a family.

00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:54.079
Tell me your children's names and their years

00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:57.880
of birth. Janelle was born in 1979. She's living

00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:02.340
in Goulburn. Chrissy, Christine, born in 1981.

00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:05.900
Christine's living up in the Lower Blue Mountains.

00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:09.420
Brendan Shalaven -Heads was born in 1983. Anne

00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:13.300
Belinda was born in 1989. She's currently in

00:49:13.300 --> 00:49:17.280
America with her husband managing a ranch over

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.380
there. What was so special about Pomona still

00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:23.500
around? The house has been, is it heritage listed?

00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:27.460
The house was heritage listed, yeah. And we managed

00:49:27.460 --> 00:49:29.719
to, when we were there, we managed to get some

00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:33.219
funding to repair different things like bay windows

00:49:33.219 --> 00:49:36.280
and veranda and stuff. It wasn't much, but it

00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:38.599
was enough to encourage us to go ahead and do

00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:41.079
it. I noticed that the people that purchased

00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:43.079
the property had just had the roof replaced about

00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:45.760
two or three years ago. Do you miss Pomona? Do

00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.920
you miss the cows? Yeah. We do. We miss the animals

00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.559
in particular. It was just very satisfying breeding

00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:56.460
the cattle from young calves and breeding them

00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:58.840
up into the herd. And, of course, the hardest

00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:01.460
part was when you had to part with them for various

00:50:01.460 --> 00:50:05.039
reasons, old age, sickness, injury, mastitis,

00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:07.739
things like that. But we do really both miss

00:50:07.739 --> 00:50:10.280
working with the animals. The relationship. Yeah,

00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:13.420
yeah. They became part of the family, I mean,

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:17.880
and it was always hard when you had to. Put one

00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:20.679
day at all. Extremely hard. It's awful. It was.

00:50:20.739 --> 00:50:22.420
It was horrible. It was the worst part of the

00:50:22.420 --> 00:50:24.780
job. Honestly, it really was. And we had each

00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:26.880
other and that's what kept us going through all

00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:29.940
the hard times and also the support that we got

00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:33.719
from Mum and Dad. They encouraged us and we were

00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.760
very grateful for that. It sounds like you had

00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.679
good parents. Oh, they were wonderful. Wonderful

00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:41.340
to all of us. All of us because we were all very

00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:44.840
lucky to have them as parents. That's why I found

00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:48.340
this so... Fascinating to read this. It's bringing

00:50:48.340 --> 00:50:51.739
up things and I'll hear other podcasts from other

00:50:51.739 --> 00:50:54.300
people and I already have from David and Richard

00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:58.179
and it just prompts your memory. So I'm sure

00:50:58.179 --> 00:51:00.420
this will prompt memories of other people and

00:51:00.420 --> 00:51:05.179
I think it's fantastic what you're doing to record

00:51:05.179 --> 00:51:10.900
this and it's there forever and hopefully people

00:51:10.900 --> 00:51:13.900
will be able to get an understanding of how...

00:51:14.349 --> 00:51:18.670
what life was like. Not only for us, but for

00:51:18.670 --> 00:51:20.789
our parents and our grandparents growing up.

00:51:20.869 --> 00:51:23.670
And I always said I never worked as hard physically

00:51:23.670 --> 00:51:26.070
as what my grandfather and father would have

00:51:26.070 --> 00:51:28.949
worked. But it was much more intense because

00:51:28.949 --> 00:51:34.010
our operations were becoming so much bigger,

00:51:34.070 --> 00:51:37.789
but with more machinery to do the jobs. But you

00:51:37.789 --> 00:51:40.989
were working just as hard or harder, but not

00:51:40.989 --> 00:51:43.599
as hard physically. It would have been costing

00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.199
more with machinery, is that right? Machinery,

00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:47.880
yeah, it was expensive, but you had to be making

00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:50.860
sure you were utilising it. You'd buy machinery

00:51:50.860 --> 00:51:54.619
to make sure that it was cost effective and adding

00:51:54.619 --> 00:51:57.679
to your profitability, if that's possible. Was

00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:00.079
there any particular piece of machinery you liked

00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:03.179
more than others? Did you like being on the tractor,

00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:06.719
for example? I did like doing tractor work. You

00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:10.159
hear some farmers say they just like the tractor

00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:11.599
work and they don't want to work with the cows.

00:52:12.190 --> 00:52:13.869
Others like the cows and don't want to do the

00:52:13.869 --> 00:52:16.610
machinery. I was happy doing either and I enjoyed

00:52:16.610 --> 00:52:19.269
doing both. I like to keep in touch with the

00:52:19.269 --> 00:52:21.809
cows. You saw them every day so you could pick

00:52:21.809 --> 00:52:24.570
up things with them if they went sick or whatever.

00:52:25.030 --> 00:52:27.769
And we got a lot of satisfaction out of looking

00:52:27.769 --> 00:52:30.389
at the cows. They come in and they look a big

00:52:30.389 --> 00:52:33.449
udder full of milk. When they're in the peak

00:52:33.449 --> 00:52:36.250
of their condition and milking, it was very,

00:52:36.409 --> 00:52:39.070
very satisfying to see all that work that you

00:52:39.070 --> 00:52:42.389
put in. I used to say that milking... was a chore

00:52:42.389 --> 00:52:44.710
that, and I always said, milking was a chore

00:52:44.710 --> 00:52:47.349
you did before you started work and a chore you

00:52:47.349 --> 00:52:49.610
had to do before you knocked off. And that's

00:52:49.610 --> 00:52:51.190
why I looked at milking, even though it was a

00:52:51.190 --> 00:52:52.710
very important part of it and it's something

00:52:52.710 --> 00:52:56.730
I enjoyed doing. All the work in between pasture

00:52:56.730 --> 00:53:00.289
maintenance, feeding, topping paddocks, everything

00:53:00.289 --> 00:53:02.889
that you did in between, fixing fences and machinery,

00:53:03.210 --> 00:53:05.769
all that had to be done in between the milkings.

00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:08.639
A lot of people would think that, yeah, you just

00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:10.619
milk the cows and that was it, but I was just

00:53:10.619 --> 00:53:12.519
full on. I was working probably 80 hours a week

00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:14.880
or more. I remember one year I had to fill in

00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:17.559
a form, a census form, and it said, how many

00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:19.260
hours did you work in the last week? I said,

00:53:19.340 --> 00:53:21.699
oh, I'll just put down 75. No, I'll work it out.

00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:24.639
I worked it out for the last week. It was only

00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:28.659
two boxes. I got 96 hours. Because I used to

00:53:28.659 --> 00:53:30.860
do the book work. There was herd records to keep

00:53:30.860 --> 00:53:33.219
at night, book work, which I never had time to

00:53:33.219 --> 00:53:35.579
do during the day, so I do. Three or four nights

00:53:35.579 --> 00:53:37.539
a week I'd be doing a couple of hours' work at

00:53:37.539 --> 00:53:39.860
night on the books. It was very intense, but

00:53:39.860 --> 00:53:44.300
absolutely no regrets. And that's a really important

00:53:44.300 --> 00:53:46.699
thing to say, isn't it? Yeah. I just want to

00:53:46.699 --> 00:53:49.719
hear about the challenges of living on a floodplain.

00:53:50.059 --> 00:53:54.340
You were living on a floodplain? No, we weren't

00:53:54.340 --> 00:53:58.119
floodplain prone. We'd get very wet. We were

00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:00.360
on the western side of the railway line and there

00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:03.159
was never any floods. Never flooded on the western

00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:05.840
side of the railway. But because of that creek

00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:08.960
that we had running through, it would get flash

00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:11.659
floods through that. And that was always a pain

00:54:11.659 --> 00:54:14.719
because it would come up and there'd be a hell

00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:16.840
of a lot of water and it'd wipe out fences. It'd

00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:18.559
leave a lot of rubbish over all the paddocks.

00:54:18.619 --> 00:54:22.019
A few days fixing up fences and picking up rubbish

00:54:22.019 --> 00:54:25.579
and getting rid of that. We were never bothered

00:54:25.579 --> 00:54:27.980
by floods, except when we had the 100 acres on

00:54:27.980 --> 00:54:29.940
the swamp. Three quarters of that or a bit more

00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:32.130
used to go underwater. but there was always a

00:54:32.130 --> 00:54:33.730
high ground where the cattle could get, so it

00:54:33.730 --> 00:54:36.489
was never an issue. With Jasper's Brush Railway

00:54:36.489 --> 00:54:38.829
going, did that impact your work? No, we didn't

00:54:38.829 --> 00:54:42.090
have... No, no. I can't recall Jasper's Brush

00:54:42.090 --> 00:54:44.750
Railway Station going. There was actually land

00:54:44.750 --> 00:54:48.349
set aside for a railway station at Maroo at the

00:54:48.349 --> 00:54:51.989
end of Lemons Lane. I imagine they didn't go

00:54:51.989 --> 00:54:53.429
ahead with it because I was only a couple of

00:54:53.429 --> 00:54:55.070
kilometres in, a couple of miles into Bomaderry.

00:54:55.659 --> 00:54:57.420
And Jasper's Brush was just up the road as well.

00:54:57.519 --> 00:54:59.460
But there was a parcel of land there that was

00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:04.139
cut out and that block there that George Moore

00:55:04.139 --> 00:55:06.860
shall own was eventually subdivided and someone

00:55:06.860 --> 00:55:09.500
who bought that land, they were joined up where

00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:11.260
this railway station was supposed to be. I think

00:55:11.260 --> 00:55:14.239
they ended up buying it for probably just a few

00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:17.579
dollars or just the cost so they could even up

00:55:17.579 --> 00:55:19.760
their block. It was a bit tricky putting the

00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:25.599
cows across the railway line. Tell me. There

00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:27.440
was a couple of close calls. We did end up losing

00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:30.360
a couple of cows from time to time because they

00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:32.380
get through the fence and get up on the railway

00:55:32.380 --> 00:55:34.699
line. But I remember one year we were there and

00:55:34.699 --> 00:55:38.659
we closed the gates. We'd have the cows ready

00:55:38.659 --> 00:55:40.300
to come across the railway line, chase them across.

00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:45.780
And we had them there this year. And I thought

00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:48.619
I could hear a train coming. And I was watching

00:55:48.619 --> 00:55:50.739
towards Berry, looking north towards Berry. And

00:55:50.739 --> 00:55:53.679
it sounded like a train. I listened for, I don't

00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:55.650
know, must... Two or three or four minutes it

00:55:55.650 --> 00:55:57.369
might have been. I just listened. No, it stopped

00:55:57.369 --> 00:56:00.309
coming. So I think Judette was there. And I said,

00:56:00.429 --> 00:56:02.949
righto, I'll open the gate. You chase them across.

00:56:03.190 --> 00:56:04.829
She'll be behind them. We'd have to chase them

00:56:04.829 --> 00:56:07.250
across. I'll put a bit of rope across the railway

00:56:07.250 --> 00:56:10.230
line, across the post, so the cows would just

00:56:10.230 --> 00:56:11.829
go straight across and not shoot up the sides.

00:56:12.489 --> 00:56:16.409
Tie that up, put it up, watching north. And I

00:56:16.409 --> 00:56:20.260
said, righto, I'll open the gate. She started

00:56:20.260 --> 00:56:22.039
chasing. I looked over my shoulder, tore back

00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:23.059
towards the bottom of the area, and the train

00:56:23.059 --> 00:56:24.739
was coming around the corner. I hadn't heard

00:56:24.739 --> 00:56:26.619
it because the noise from the highway was coming

00:56:26.619 --> 00:56:30.139
from the north. And I jumped in front of the

00:56:30.139 --> 00:56:32.880
car and just stopped them in time and closed

00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:36.480
the gate. It was pretty close. Put the wind up.

00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:38.059
The train went straight through the barling twine,

00:56:38.139 --> 00:56:41.199
ripped it, knocked it all out. Yeah, but it was

00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:43.380
always a bit hairy. But, yeah, you knew what

00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:45.579
time the trains were coming mostly. Speaking

00:56:45.579 --> 00:56:48.239
of the wind, you get a bit of wind blowing through

00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:51.480
there? Oh. They say, there's a sign up saying,

00:56:51.639 --> 00:56:53.659
Maroo, Aboriginal for lightning. I think they

00:56:53.659 --> 00:56:55.659
got it wrong. It should be Aboriginal for wind.

00:56:55.860 --> 00:56:58.940
The winds were horrendous through Maroo. Notoriously

00:56:58.940 --> 00:57:00.900
bad area for wind. I don't know whether it's

00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:02.219
something to do with the mountain or what, but

00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:03.880
it just seemed to whip around that mountain and

00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:06.860
we had horrendous, used to get horrendous westerly

00:57:06.860 --> 00:57:08.940
winds. Seemed to blow for weeks on end sometimes

00:57:08.940 --> 00:57:12.739
through the July, August period. And they were

00:57:12.739 --> 00:57:14.800
just, nothing annoyed me more than the westerly

00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:18.659
wind on the farm. It would just be... It was

00:57:18.659 --> 00:57:21.420
hard to work in. I hated working in it. You'd

00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:25.099
have good pastures and it'd be nice moisture

00:57:25.099 --> 00:57:26.619
in the ground and you'd get the westerly wind

00:57:26.619 --> 00:57:28.880
for a week and it'd just burn the pastures off

00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:31.139
and dry the ground out and all that moisture

00:57:31.139 --> 00:57:33.860
would be gone. That was one of the worst aspects

00:57:33.860 --> 00:57:36.000
of living in Peru. Other than that, it was a

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:39.039
lovely place to live and we really enjoyed our...

00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:44.480
It was very hard to leave when the time came.

00:57:44.820 --> 00:57:49.630
And what year was that? Jeanette and I finished

00:57:49.630 --> 00:57:55.409
up milking in about 2011. I'd got to the point

00:57:55.409 --> 00:57:59.329
where I was just worn out, mentally and physically.

00:57:59.730 --> 00:58:03.329
I wanted to keep going, but I couldn't. I loved

00:58:03.329 --> 00:58:05.909
the job. I still enjoyed what I was doing, but

00:58:05.909 --> 00:58:10.010
I knew I couldn't keep going. So we leased it

00:58:10.010 --> 00:58:11.789
for a while. At the time, our youngest daughter

00:58:11.789 --> 00:58:14.730
was working with us and she was enjoying it.

00:58:15.309 --> 00:58:17.750
She wanted to do other things and then she met

00:58:17.750 --> 00:58:19.829
a young fella from down near Holbrook and at

00:58:19.829 --> 00:58:22.150
that time I just said, look, I mean, if she wanted

00:58:22.150 --> 00:58:23.869
to do it, I would have kept going, but it would

00:58:23.869 --> 00:58:26.010
have been hard for me. And it was hard for Jeanette

00:58:26.010 --> 00:58:29.110
as well. She enjoyed it. Well, that's all she'd

00:58:29.110 --> 00:58:31.349
known. Yeah, exactly. I mean, she used to help

00:58:31.349 --> 00:58:32.969
her father when she was eight, nine years old,

00:58:33.010 --> 00:58:35.070
driving tractors and doing what, milking and

00:58:35.070 --> 00:58:37.889
all that sort of thing. So she really loved her

00:58:37.889 --> 00:58:41.449
life. But, yeah, it was a hard decision to finish

00:58:41.449 --> 00:58:42.869
up because I knew it would be the end of the

00:58:42.869 --> 00:58:46.280
line for the... for the mowers at Pomona. I knew

00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:49.920
it was the right thing to do in the end. Well,

00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:52.380
it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do,

00:58:52.420 --> 00:58:55.079
but I knew I had to do it. So we hung on. We

00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:57.800
bleached it for five years, but then there was

00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:00.260
no way I was going back to it. I couldn't. So

00:59:00.260 --> 00:59:04.119
in 2016, we were still living on the... We had

00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:06.500
a one -hectare block where Jeanette and I built

00:59:06.500 --> 00:59:09.780
next to the Charlie Lemons old house. So we lived

00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:11.960
there for a while, but it wasn't our farm anymore.

00:59:12.429 --> 00:59:14.590
We liked it, liked where we lived. We loved the

00:59:14.590 --> 00:59:17.809
aspect and we had great neighbours there and

00:59:17.809 --> 00:59:22.769
we just got to the point where, no, I can't live

00:59:22.769 --> 00:59:26.449
here anymore. We've got to move. So we put it

00:59:26.449 --> 00:59:28.789
on the market and moved to Goulburn, where our

00:59:28.789 --> 00:59:31.309
eldest daughter was, to get away from the coast.

00:59:31.869 --> 00:59:34.369
We found the coast was getting a bit suffocating

00:59:34.369 --> 00:59:38.110
for us from what we remembered it to be. And

00:59:38.110 --> 00:59:42.150
how's life today? Lovely. Great. Great. We miss

00:59:42.150 --> 00:59:46.090
Pomona. You find you're getting your energy back?

00:59:47.210 --> 00:59:50.570
Well, yeah, I did. You're healing? Yeah, yeah,

00:59:50.590 --> 00:59:54.030
I am. No one can ever take away the memories

00:59:54.030 --> 00:59:56.829
we have. We have a lot of memorabilia of Pomona,

00:59:56.949 --> 01:00:00.210
which is sometimes hard to look at, but I've

01:00:00.210 --> 01:00:03.429
got that, and we're really embracing their life

01:00:03.429 --> 01:00:06.230
now. I know if I'd have kept going, I wouldn't

01:00:06.230 --> 01:00:08.889
be like I am now. Well, it sounds like you've

01:00:08.889 --> 01:00:12.940
had a... Satisfying life. Very, very satisfying

01:00:12.940 --> 01:00:16.059
and very rewarding and I've been very, very fortunate

01:00:16.059 --> 01:00:18.960
and very grateful for the opportunities we have,

01:00:19.099 --> 01:00:22.340
courtesy of my mother and father and my family

01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:26.519
and my wife. She's been, Jeanette, she's been...

01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:30.019
She looks strong. She's very strong, very strong.

01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:33.639
It's good, isn't it? It is. She carries me. That's

01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:39.139
good. Today is the 11th of March, 2025. which

01:00:39.139 --> 01:00:42.320
happens to be the 47th wedding anniversary of

01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:45.900
Jeanette and Patrick Muller. I'm sending love

01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:48.500
their way with a deep respect for their journey

01:00:48.500 --> 01:00:51.840
together. A component of this episode is supported

01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:55.039
by Turf Co, our region's largest agricultural

01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:59.340
employer, operating in this area for 40 years.

01:00:59.579 --> 01:01:04.059
Thank you, Gavin. This project that I have initiated

01:01:04.059 --> 01:01:09.730
receives no government funding. A donate button

01:01:09.730 --> 01:01:14.670
has been activated at my host podcast site rss

01:01:14.670 --> 01:01:19.150
.com. Simply google the Dairy Lane Project should

01:01:19.150 --> 01:01:22.889
you want to listen. All my podcasts will be hosted

01:01:22.889 --> 01:01:26.889
on my own website as well. This project is my

01:01:26.889 --> 01:01:31.289
initiative and my digital investment in the region,

01:01:31.590 --> 01:01:37.079
laying foundations for future generations. At

01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.719
its completion, it will be archived at Nowra

01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:45.000
Library through their networks. I also offer

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.719
my services to the wider community. Have a look

01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:52.659
at my business section at my website, theresesweeney

01:01:52.659 --> 01:01:56.739
.com .au. Feel free to get in touch with me.

01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:00.199
Until next time, when we go to Devitt's Lane,

01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:03.139
take care and thanks for listening.