I welcome you to Episode 2, The Morshalls in
Pestles Lane. Maroo Meadow. Great -grandfather
Johann Morshall and his wife Marie Caroline migrated
from Germany to Australia in 1855 with two sons.
He had signed a contract with de Mestre's agent
in Germany prior to migrating. Johann had served
in the Prussian army. Johann worked at Etienne
Demestre's estate at Tarara, a horse stud and
dairy farm. Demestre paid for his fare. He was
to work as a farmhand, gardener. His wife, Marie
Caroline, worked as a milkmaid for two years.
They received full board and lodgings, plus 35
pounds sterling. They would assign two more agreements
over a three -year period and remained at Tarara.
Their annual sum increased to 50 pounds sterling.
The de Mestre family owned land at Tarara where
they had stables, farms and a vineyard. In fact,
Archer, who won the Melbourne Cup, was trained
at de Mestre Stud in Tarara. Their home was called
Millbank House, which is opposite Tarara School.
They stayed until after 1869. Then Johan became
a tenant farmer at Maroo Meadow on the Berry
Estate. When the estate sold off the land in
1893, Johan purchased the land he had been working
with his two sons on the western side of the
highway, now known as Boxall's Lane. He had worked
as a builder and plasterer. They later bought
land on the eastern side of the highway. Their
eldest son, Henry Edward, born 1849, had purchased
60 acres of land at Beaulont in 1885. He moved
to Lismore in 1915 and passed away in 1927. Sadly,
Marie was to carry three children between 1851
and 1853, all dying. Jacob Marshall was also
on the ship from Germany, a baby. and the second
eldest living son. He was born in 1854 in Hesse,
Germany. He eventually married Christine Muller
in 1879 at Maroo Union Church, a non -denominational
church for Protestants. John Marshall was the
next surviving child, born in 1856 at the David
Berry Hospital. They were all living at Tarara.
He married Frances Purdy. on the 29th of May,
1895, at St John's Church of England in Nowra.
A further seven children were born after John.
Two were to die shortly after birth, so a remaining
five survived. George, born in 1857, Elizabeth,
born in 1863, Augustus, born in 1865, and Catherine,
born in 1866. The family were close -knit and
highly regarded in the community. John Marshall
bought his own land on the flats just beside
the railway line at Maroo. Marshall's Lane is
named after the family where John and his sons
farmed. Jacob remained on the western side of
the highway. His grandson David today reflects
on his father, grandfather and family dairy operations
in Pestles Lane. where David still farms today.
David's sister, Anne, lives about 100 metres
from his farm in Pestles Lane. Both siblings
have only ever lived in Pestles Lane. Their father
lived in Boxalls Lane until he married Hannah
Jane May Irvine, his first wife. They were married
in 1932. They moved to Pestles Lane. From Boxall's
Lane, where they share -farmed with Joseph Pestle,
their son Irvine Gordon Marshall was born in
March 1933. His mother died in March 1940. Irvine
died in July 2006. Originally, Pestle's Lane
was from the boundary line of Joseph and Thomas
Pestle's properties to the Princess Highway.
Their father, John Pestle, owned both properties.
He came to Maroo Meadow about 1878. After mail
delivery, Pestle's Lane was extended to Boxall's
Lane. Prior to mail delivery, the lane from Pestle's
Lane to Boxall's Lane was known as Graham's Road.
David has lived most of his life in isolation.
Some would say as a hermit in Pestle's Lane.
I'm lucky to have secured him for this project.
I'm pleased to introduce to you David Morshall.
David, thanks for coming in today. Where were
you born and what year were you born? I was born
in Nowra at the private hospital in Redrobe,
the Edmond I think it was called, on the 29th
of January 1947. Do you have siblings? Yes, I
have a sister. She's older than me. She was also
born there in August 1945. And I've got a half
-brother. He was born in Nara, I presume. What's
your sister's full name? Anne Leslie and Smith
now. She's married. And your full name is? David
Oswald Marshall, yes. What about your half -brother?
He was Irvine Gordon Marshall and he passed away.
2006. He was born in 1933, 21st of March, I think.
Dad was born in Maroo, on their property up in
Vauxhall Lane, on the 22nd of November, 1896.
Mum was born at Corowa, down on the Murray River,
on the 3rd of March, 1910. And you say when...
The property in Boxalls. So just be specific
there. They had a property that went from, I'll
say, from the highway to Pestles Lane. 56 acres
they had there eventually. They started off with
28 and then they got up to 56, got some more.
And then in around 1920... I don't know exactly
when. That's when they built the house near the
opposite of the church. Before that, they were
up on the hill. So you're saying opposite the
church. Couldn't you name that church? Maroo
Union Church. So when you say the house opposite...
Yeah, it's in Boxall's Lane on the corner. Does
that house still exist? Yeah. You turn into Boxall's.
Yeah, you turn into Boxall's, and it's the first
one on the left. So it would be number one, possibly.
Is that the old post office? Yes. Tell me about
the old post office and your history relating
to that. Well, they had the post office when
they were up on the other end of the property,
up near Tullian Creek. They had the post office
there. I don't know when they got it. They come
to Maroo, grandfather and... They'd come to Maroo
in around 1893. I think they had the post office
nearly from then. And then the people down Maroo
Road, they got a petition together and got it
moved down to Maroo and Maroo Road. It was too
far to come up there for their mail. And there
wasn't as many down there, apparently, as there
was up... Because the ones from... Right up in
Bells Lane, they used to come down there and
get their mail, and the school kids used to get
their mail and take it home with them. And Bells
Lane's a bit further up. Yes, you get into that
off Mossvale Road. It was only down there for
about six weeks, I think, and the other ones,
they got a petition up and got it back again,
and the Marshalls had it from then. I don't know
just when the telephones come through, but they
had that as well. So you're saying the telephone
exchange? Yeah, the post office on that, there,
the church and then the school. Well, there used
to be a Maroo Hall down, it was opposite the
school. And that disappeared when they did the
highway about 50 years ago. In Marshall's Lane,
they were grandfather's brother. That was John.
When you say grandfather, what was your grandfather's
name? Jacob. And he migrated when? He'd come
out and he was one year old when they got to
Australia in 1854. And John, he was the first
one born in Australia in 1856. But I don't...
Well, there was Jacob, John, Gus, Powell, Elizabeth.
And there was... There was two other girls, I
think. One died when she was fairly young. Oh,
and there was Heinrich, too. He was the eldest.
He was born in Germany, too. Like his father
and John and Gus and Powell and Elizabeth. So,
OK, so your grandfather was the Morshall Lane
brother? Yeah, brother of the Morshall Lane.
Our family were always in Boxall Lane. and Pestle
and Jacob. When he got married he went to Camberwara.
The first four children were born up there. Then
he went to Back Forest and there was another
five born there. Then he came to Maroo and the
last four were born in Maroo in the old slab
house up on the hill in the Italian Creek. Did
you ever see that house? No, that was gone before
my time. Quite common, weren't they, slab houses?
Must have been hard. Well, there is still one
in my room. And where is that? It's up there
in Vauxhall Lane, up the other way. People still
live in it, but people don't know it's a slab
house. People that owned it in the early 50s,
they covered it with fibro. That's where he used
to live. Okay, so we've got this picture here
and you're saying this is Johan Morshall. Yes.
And who is he again to you? He's my great -grandfather.
His daughter Elizabeth painted that. Can you
tell me more about that painting? Have you seen
the painting? No. Do you know where it is? No.
Did you ever go over to Morshall's Lane as a
young boy? I only ever went there twice. about
20 or 20, maybe early 20s when I went there.
Describe the landscape over there and who was
living there. When I went there, there was only
Len. He was the third son, I think, of John.
Him and George, he was the youngest. They were
two bachelors and I went down to get some saccharine
seed from them. That's why I was there. But I
only saw George. I never ever saw Len. Well,
in that family... I only knew three of them.
I only ever met, there was three girls and four
boys. Clive, Len, Mark and George were the boys.
Flory, Lily and Rene. Were the girls. Were the
girls. Nice names. Big families. Yeah. Actually,
there was another one that died when he was only
young, I think. But I don't really know them,
but I only knew Clive and Florrie and George.
They're the only ones I knew. Did you go to school
with any of them? I went with Clive's daughter.
She's the same age as me. What was her name?
Frances. She's still alive? Yeah, Frances Buchan
now. A bit sad her husband died just recently.
Fell through the roof. Sad it was. Her brother,
Mark, he lives up, their property joins ours.
He's up near the Bell's Lane. I see him occasionally.
So thinking of Marshall's Lane, what did it look
like and what were they farming there? They had
a dairy. They had a fair bit of land, hundreds
of acres. And actually the lane was part of their
property. There was a bit of a kerfuffle over
that when they were naming it. The council were
going to name it something else. Tell me more
about that. I don't know. It was Warner's Lane
or something like that they were going to do
it. And this is back in the 1990s, sometime then.
And anyway, Albert Muller, he got a petition
up and got it known Marshall's Lane because it
was on their property. How far back it was, they
used to go down Lammons Lane. That's the one
opposite Oxford Lane. They used to go down there.
and the bridge washed out in the creek, and they
couldn't get out. So they had the property that
come up onto the highway there opposite Devitt's
Lane, so they made their own road through their
own property. And that's why Albert, he remembered,
he come round, he told Mum, I remember when they
did it. When was that? I don't know, just when
that bridge washed out. I don't know. You know,
you've known it more since then. So Shoalhaven
Council, did they have to support that? Well,
they were the ones who were going to call it
something else. But one of the other members
of the Morshall family, Rean's descendants, they
used to live down Lammond's Lane, and they tried
to get it named Morshall's Lane. The council
wouldn't hear of it. Albert had a bit more clout,
apparently. So they were dairy farming? Yes,
they were dairy farming in a small way. They
never put in milking machines. They always milked
by hand. Right up till 1972, that's when Len
passed away. And I think it was 72. And George,
he got out of dairy and about two weeks after
that, he gave it away. Tell me about what sort
of cows they were milking. I don't know what
breed of cows they had. I don't really know very
much about them, actually, because I've only
was down there that... Getting seed. Yeah, getting
that seed that time. So they had a lot of land.
They must have been growing grasses or? Well,
they would have farmed like the other farms.
They had their pasture and they grew corn and
saccharine for the feed in the winter. I know
they grew the saccharine because that's how they
got the seed. But they would have grown corn
and saccharine because that's back in those.
that was how they did it. Tell me the migration
story of the Germans coming out here and where
they migrated to initially and how you all spread.
They came to Australia in 1854 and landed in
Melbourne but then they came up, I don't know
how they got from Melbourne to up here because
it was... Well, my sister got it up on the computer
that Joanna's wife, Maria, she was that sick
when they arrived in Melbourne, they carried
her off the boat. They'd come up and they'd work
for Domesta, and then they'd come up to Maroo,
I reckon sometime in the 1870s, and lived in
that slab house. And then the grandfather, he
stayed around the district, and John. John was
actually a builder at one time. He helped build
the Maroo Church. He worked for that builder.
And you're about to name the other church? Greenwell
Point Church, because it's the same as Maroo
Church. Barry gave them the money for it. I don't
know. We didn't know much about him, but he went
up the North Coast. And Gus and Powell and their
families. They were around the district for a
while. Gus owned a piece of ground up at the
end of Devils Lane. And Powell, that's not his
right name, I don't think. But anyway, he owned
a bit down in Maroo Road and Bomaderry where
the bowling club and along there, along that
strip of land in there, I don't know how much,
but they left here and went to Port Cambler and
their sons were... divers that like inspecting
boats and that sort of thing I think and a few
of them there was four mortals went to the First
World War two of them come back and one of them
I know was Heinrichs and the other one of them
was named George Austin and that's where that
George got he was killed and George was born
not long after that. That's where he got his
name. He was over in Gallipoli. He was one of
Heinrich's. He got killed in Gallipoli. Dad never
mentioned him. And Elizabeth, she married a policeman.
She had a soup kitchen and he was a policeman.
You hear your family are farming in Boxalls Lane.
What are they farming? Well, Jacob had 56 acres
and he also had his. He was a bootmaker, and
they had the post office. But when Dad left school
when he was 13, he worked on the farm, dairying.
He went to Maroo School. That's when he went,
I think. All the ones that were still school
-age, they would have went there. That would
have been Adrian. Joe didn't. He was... He was
the youngest son. He was living in Camberwara
with his eldest sister. So where are we here?
In the early 20th century? Yeah, in the early
1900s. His dad would have left school about 1909,
1910. What sort of cows have you got there? Well,
I don't know what sort of cows they had. Probably
a mixture of cows. because Dad always had a mixture
of crossbred cows. Did he have a lot of them?
No, probably only, I think he said in 1928 when
they had a big drought, they were milking 12
cows and that's about all they ever milked. He
would have been doing his building and he used
to go out, well him and Joe, I just don't know
when. They started it, doing it, because Joe
was a qualified builder. And they built two houses
and sheds and things like that for people. And
one house they built, I don't know whether it's
still there or not, it was in Maroo Road. The
first house, when you turned off the highway
into Maroo Road, they built that in 1930. And
they built one in Turner's Lane in Jasper's Brush.
They pulled that down in West Camber Warren,
brought it to Maroo and rebuilt it. I know that
one's still there. What is your first memories
of the dairy farm as a young boy in the 50s?
That's when he was share farmer then for Joe
Pestle. And that property joined onto their original
property, was next door to it. How big was that
property? It was 75 acres. It went from the highway
back onto Pestles Lane, just a strip through
there. And they also had a 60 -acre paddock up
in the footer, up in the foothills of Camberwarra
Mountain, down south of the lookout in there.
Well, they used to run the dry cows and the heifers
and that up there. But I don't know. Dad told
me once the wind blew a big tree over one of
the gullies. And he went up there and sorted
into things, split the fence posts out and couldn't
even get up there with the horses. He carried
all the things out of his back. He would have
had the axe then, would he? Yeah. No machinery.
Yeah. The axe, the old cross -cut saw, the maul,
the wedges and all that stuff. And he had to
cart that up there? Yeah, he carried it in and
then carried the posts out. How big was your
dad? He was only... about five foot six weighed
about nine stone well mum said that when she
met him in in the mid 40s you know he only weighed
nine stone he had horses when I was young and
did all the stuff and all the hard yak and digging
post holes and talk a bit more about that what
I can remember they had those um well he always
he had the milking machines I don't remember
before that he was probably one of the first
ones to get because he put the milking machines
in in 1939, and that was before the electricity
comes through, they should drive them with an
engine. They used to fill those concrete silos
with corn, and that was all cut by hand and carted
in and put through the shaft cutter, and that,
I remember them doing that. So they're still
using slides? Yeah, horse and slide. Did you
ever get in the silos yourself to jump around
and get the air out? Yeah, only when we were
up to the first window. We weren't allowed up.
How many windows were there? There was about
four, I think. Mum went right to the top. I remember
it was after me, Hervey left, I think, or Irvine,
Hervey, because things went bad on the farm back
in the mid -50s and he had to go out to work.
And they got a bloke in one year, I think it
was the last year they filled the silo, to help
do the silo, because it used to take them about
six weeks to do it. And anyway, he was there
and he went off one Saturday at lunchtime and
never came back. So Mum had to help do it. So
the silo, explain the operation. So the silos
there, were the feed stalls nearby? Actually
on that property there was two silos and then
they had the... the feed stall sort of next to
it. Been six weeks filling it up and then that
was for later in the winter because they did
it at this time of the year, they'd be filling
it. And they also had the saccharine and they
used to bring that in and chaff that and feed
that in. I think I fed that in the stalls first
and then the corn later, if I remember right.
Did you have the trolley going down the stalls
or hand? Some people did, but Dad always bagged
it. he'd put it into bags. I don't think Ann
and me actually helped him bag the silage when
he got it out. They just had a big, like a window
on it, and then they had a bag chute, and he
could just come down and hook the bags on the
bottom. But if you had a trolley, well, they'd
just sit into the trolley. But for some reason,
he always did it in bags, and when he chaffed
the green corn or the saccharine... It had a
double bagger and it just went up the elevator
and free fell back down into the bags. And we
used to help do that when I was, must have been
eight years old because we left over there when
I was nine. So we used to help do that. We used
to fill the bags, kick the bags. Do you remember
any rodents? How did you keep the rats away from
stuff? I don't remember many rats over there
actually because we always had cats. Well, it's
a drier part, isn't it, that side? It's not the
wet part of the, it's not the Shoalhaven part,
it's the enscarpment part. We didn't do, there
used to be, there'd be rats there, but not great
plagues of them, because we always had a lot
of cats, and we've still got a lot of cats. What
do you feel about cats? Well, they're there,
they're not pets, they're just there. They've
got a job to do. Yeah. Like the accountant's
wife said we were talking about, she said they're
working cats. I like that. Do you feed them or
do they feed themselves? No, I feed them. What
do you feed them? Well, at the moment I'm feeding
them powdered milk and bread and calf pellets.
And the little kittens, I've got four little
kittens there at the moment. I take them over
a bit of porridge. That's very sweet. We've always
had a mixed herd of cattle. And on the share
farm, they milked around 40 -odd on there. And
it was because it was a share, you only had to
milk a fair few because the boss had to get his
share out of it. How does a share farm work?
Well, that was a half share. There's different
ways of doing it. As far as I can understand,
that was a half share. The boss supplied the
property and the cattle and the farm. And Dad
did the work and there was bits and little bits
and pieces in it, who paid for this and who paid
for that. But I just don't know how that really,
that bit of it, but the main gist of it was Joe
did the, Joe Piston, he supplied the property
and the cattle. And when Dad first went there
he supplied the horses, the two old horses. And
then later on when they bought the tractor, Dad
had to pay for half the tractor. Is that the
name of the lane? Yeah, that's where it come
from, because Joe was on that side. Like you'd
come up Pestles Lane, up from the highway, where
that overpass thing is, you'd come up there.
He was on the right -hand side. Tom was on the
left -hand side, where we are now. And Tom was
married to Dad's sister. And that's how we got
the property. Who did Tom Pestle marry? Minnie
Marshall, Dad's second eldest sister. And Tom
Pestle, he was a Boer War veteran. He went to
the Boer War. And also his brother Dick, who
used to be a policeman, he went to the Boer War
as well. So I found out, honey, found that out
just recently. So do you think it might have
been named because they were servicemen? No,
just because they lived there. I think that's
how they named it, like Boxall's used to. Well,
according to what Dad told me, where the Boxall's
Lane is, that wasn't always Boxall's Lane. They
added a different name. Boxall's Lane was the
one that went to Elliot's Lane now. And Graham's
Road, well, Graham's lived up there, where Richard
Boxall is. They lived up there since the year
Dot, I think. Yes, I've seen that on the original
map. They had quite a bit of land up there. We've
got an old photocopy of an old map, 1836, that's
got Mrs E Graham on it. Another little bit of
information about the capital. Yes, please. They
used to live up in West Camberwara before they
joined Pestil. That's Joe and Tom's father, because
he had the property that Dad used to share farm
on, Joe's property. He used to live there. And
they used to live up in West Camberwara, and
there was a film made on that property in 1960.
Adam's woman, and that's the property that used
to be Pestle's property. Limerie's owned it.
How did you get on with the Pestles? Well, I
only knew Joe. Got on all right with him. He
used to live next to Maroo. When he retired,
when he got off the farm in 1925, he lived in
that house that's next to Maroo School, that
white house that Duncan's owned now. So you'd
go and visit him, would you? Odd times. He used
to come over to the farm nearly every day. He
would go and see Minnie. Because Tom had died,
he died in 1940, so he used to go over and see
Minnie because that was his brother's widow.
Did they have children, Tom and Minnie? No, they
didn't have any. Jo had one daughter and she
lived in Sydney. What was her name? Molly. Actually,
her name was Margaret Mary, I think. My sister
found it. It was known as Molly. She was married
to a Rob Wilson and they had two daughters, Margaret
and Patricia. Sort of knew them because they
went to private school, the Presbyterian Ladies
College, because that's where Molly went. They
used to come down to see their grandparents a
week earlier than when we were still going to
school because they went to a private... They'd
come down to the school to fill in their time.
They might be there in the morning and then later
on they'd go away. So tell me about some of your
school friends. Can you remember who taught when
you went to school? There was one teacher there,
CJ Debenham. He was the main teacher, but when
I was in second class, we had a lady teacher,
and she only had the kindergarten, first and
second class. That was Miss Walsh, and she belonged
to the... Her parents used to be out in... what's
Jasper's Brush Road now, they used to live out
there. She was only there for that one year.
That was in 1954 she was there. There was only
the one teacher again, C .J. Debenham. They said
he was there for 24 years and he was finished
up in 1960, so it must have been in 1936 he must
have come there. Well, there was only two dozen
kids there altogether. Who were the families?
Yeah, there was... Of course, John Martin, of
course, he was there because he's nearly as old
as me. Vauxhall's. Richard wasn't there. His
brother and sister, they were there. Elliot's.
Bennett. Carol Bennett. The Elliot's, there was
Christine, Ross and Margaret. Radford's. They
used to be up on the property where John Martin
is now, up Devitt's Lane. What are their names?
Radford. Arthur and David. I think Heather, I
think that was the girl's name. I think she was
there too. She would have been only quite young.
And Mum told us that when David went to school,
he went home in a state the first day after.
There's another David there. Ian Callaghan, of
course, he was there. He'd come from Jasper's
Brush. Margaret and Judy Wiley, they were at
Wiley's Creek. And then John and Sylvia, they
were another Wiley family. And then there was
Gay and Jill. They were their grandparents some
of the time. They were only there some of the
time. Davis, Bob and Evan and Laurel Davis. And
Driskies, they were only there for a few years.
Their father used to rent a farm, the one that
Walsh's had got there in Turner's Lane. They
used to rent that. Turner's, Helen Turner. Who
was her father? Helen. What was Turner's Lane
named after? Well, I don't know. He was Les Turner
and I don't know, it must have been him because
I don't know who else was down there when Dad
and Joe built the house down there for Billy
Abernethy. They were an old Campbell Warren Maroo
families. Any of them still around? There's still
Abernethys in Nowra. Yeah, they're Billy Abernethy's
descendants. Billy Abernethy had four sons. Christy
Abernethy had four daughters. When we were at
Maroo, we used to compete in these school sports.
I was a pretty good runner and long jumper and
all that sort of stuff. And so was my sister.
But we can't run at all now, so we were the only
ones that could run. And Helen Turner, she was
real competitive too. Thinking about the milk
runs, where were your cans collected and who
collected the cans? Well, I think originally
the farmers used to take them themselves. I think
Bert Muller, that's Albert's father, he was the
first one that, I'm sure he was the first one
that had the milk run. He had it during the war
and I'm sure he was the first one that was doing
it. So that would have been horse and sulky?
No, he had a truck. had an old Dodge truck that
he used to do it with, and Albert used to do
it sometimes. And they had it till sometime in
the late 40s. Where were they delivering the
milk? They used to take it down to the Narra
Co -op in Bomaderry, where truck and tractor
are now. I think that's where it would have been
going then. It was a co -op. They started off
on the other side of the river, but I think that's
where it would have been then. So that would
have gone by train then? Then train to Sydney.
The milk train used to go up about 11 o 'clock
every day. From where we lived, you could see
it going on the puffin and it's an old steam
train. Do you know how much milk went every day?
No. I think now a co -op and very co -op were...
A bit of friendly rivalry, I think. As a young
person, what are some of your strong memories
in the landscape growing up? What did you really
enjoy doing? Driving around on the tractor. What
sort of tractor was it? It wasn't a great Fergie.
It was a little kerosene on the grey one. There
was a lot of them around. And tell me about the
wheels on them. Yeah, they're rubber tyres. They
come out in the late 40s. Pommy Bloke, Harry
Ferguson, invented them. They're only a small
tractor, like 20. Three horse power or something.
But they had a three -point linkage and a hydraulic
thing that was better than all the other tractors.
None of the other tractors had it. And years
later, some of them still didn't have it. Can
you remember how much that might have cost? And
who the dealer was? Morehouse, the machinery
man. And that actually made him. He got that
dealership for those tractors and the Vanguard
cars. What were the Vanguard cars? They were
a Pommie English car and they had the same motor
as the little tractors. They were popular in
the district? Yeah, a few people had them. I've
still got an old Vanguard ute. We got it second
hand. Great old ute it was. Did you go to Nowra
mostly? Yeah, we did all our shopping in Nowra
and Bomaderry. Most of the farm stuff was done
with the Nowra co -op because that's... because
Dad had shares in the Nara Co -op, so he supported
the produce store. To get our groceries off,
that was another co -op. Mum used to call it
the Go -Cop because it went broke. But one of
the guys that worked in it, he set out on his
own, George Cochran, and he used to come round
on a bike in the morning and collect your order,
and then he'd come back. the groceries in the
afternoon. He didn't work in Maroo because he
didn't have enough. I think it was only us and
Voxels that supported him in Maroo but he had
a good clientele down in Bolong and that was
still going when he gave up in the 70s but I
think he either used to ring them up or they
used to ring him up. We used to get our meat
off Ratcliffe. There was a butcher shop near
the pub. environment areas you get meat off them
that used to come out on the milk truck bread
you got from koalis that used to come out on
the milk truck we got our butter from the course
from the co -op that come out once a week in
the milk can not a butter box no just put it
in there we used to get three pound of butter
that used to just put it in the milk can was
it wrapped it was wrapped up in paper what about
grog did you drink no i i used to i didn't go
to the pub i didn't That didn't appeal to me.
I used to go and buy a few bottles when I was
younger, and then it started to make me sick,
so I haven't drank for, what, 50 years probably.
Dad was a non -drinker. He didn't like drinking.
I worked it out why he didn't like it. He told
me one day, because I was 17 when he died, he
used to tell us about it. He used to go into
town with his father twice a year. This was back
in the horse and cart days, when he was only,
after he left school, when he was only a teenager.
This would be Nowra? Yeah, into Nowra. And his
father had some business he did in there, twice
a year, something he had to do, and then down
the pub. And he used to go up and see Blacksmith.
He'd have to bring him home at night, and I reckon,
this is only my thought, He had to bring him
home when he had his skin full and that's why
he didn't like people drinking. He had a guy
working for him once. He'd come home drunk one
Saturday night and Sunday morning he was gone
because he used to live in that little room,
had his little room on the side of the house
on the veranda and sat him on the Sunday morning,
cleared him out. So that's what he thought about
drink. Okay, so... You like driving tractors.
What were you doing on the tractor and where
were you? Well, usually helping cut the cow food.
That's after we'd come to where we are now. That's
after we left the share farm. So you were in
Pestles Lane? We were still in Pestles Lane.
So tell me how you, okay, let's talk about that
and how you secured the property and how big
it is. Well, I don't know whether I should tell
you. Tell me all of it. Right, I will. We want
the truth. Well, Dad was trying to buy. A property.
The one his grandfather used to have up in Boxfield
Lane. And it was for sale, and this was in the
early 50s, for £5 ,000. And the bank manager
wouldn't lend him the money. So that was the
end of that. And anyway, there was another one
come up for sale in Jaspers Brush. And he went
to the auction. He bid up to £7 ,000. The bank
manager lent any amount of money for that one.
And this is the thing we can't work out. and
he lent him any amount of money for it, and anyway
he bid up to £7 ,000 and bailed out. And the
next day, the guy that got it arrived round and
wanted to sell it to him for another £700, and
he told him to go away. And I thought, I've been
thinking about this the other day, and I thought,
well, what was he bidding on it for if he didn't
want it? Dad was talking to his first wife's
brother one day, and he said, And he was telling
him, and he says, that's the best miss you ever
had, Oz. So I don't know what was on about that
property. And anyway, then Minnie, his sister,
she come over one day and said, don't worry about
looking for a farm. I'm going to leave you this
one. This is how trusting he was. He was going
to go there because he wanted to stay there in
her house. And he was going to build another
house and the bars and do everything. And Mum
said, no, you're not. Someone can come round,
because she was getting on in years, come round
and charm her up or whatever, and she can leave
it to anyone she likes, and we've lost everything.
So they did a different thing on it then, and
he bought, paid a deposit, and then used to just
pay the interest, like rent, like that. That's
what she lived on, but anyway. So that was the
arrangement. Yeah, that was the arrangement,
and then when she died, he would have got it.
but she lived longer than what he did. And so
it didn't work out quite how it was supposed
to because he had died and he left it to Mum
and then she'd left what was owing to Mum and
me sister and me and Herbie. We all got a little
share out of it. So it didn't sort of work out
quite as... How did your dad pass? He was...
He had these tumours and he was crook for about...
He was really crook and he... And he had come
home to me fairly suddenly. It was in 1962. And,
well, Mum reckoned he wasn't well. And he, anyway,
knocked him down just before Christmas in 62.
He went to see the specialist in Wollongong in
March 63. And he didn't come back. They shoved
him in hospital and operated on him. And I'm
still cranky about it, not real happy about this,
because Mum rang the hospital to see how he,
you know, and the sister or someone said, the
operation was a success, so you'd think he was
going to be all right, but she had to ring the
doctor up a couple of days later, and he informed
us that he only had six or 12 months to live.
And he went about 12 months. He died on March
64. How did that impact the family? Well, it
impacted me, I know that, because Mum and me,
we ran the farm from then on. So you stepped
up? Yeah. How old were you? 17. And so what high
school had you left? I left high school, narrow
high school, at the end of 61. I was 14. So you
stayed on the farm from 14? Yeah, much to Mum's
disgust, because I was... I passed the intermediate
in all subjects. He thought I should have gone
on and become some sort of flaming professor
or something. I didn't want to do that. I wanted
to learn a trade. My dad wanted me on the farm,
so I stayed with him. And I'm still there. Well,
Mum still, she did the financial part of it,
because the business was in her name. And we
sort of shared the cattle breeding part of it.
And I carried on farming the same way as what
Dad did for years. You took on your father's
learning. What was that? How did you run it then?
And what changed? Well, we started off, I started
off, he was growing pasture. That was different
to what he was doing on the share farm, a bit
different. We didn't have the silos, so we just
grew crops and made hay, grew saccharine. We
grew corn and we used to grind the cobs up and
feed to the cows, like the grain. Did you store
it? Yeah, we used to just pull the cobs off and
chuck them in the shed and they were there for
12 months, depending on how good the crop was.
And then I grew saccharine and used to cut that
in the wintertime. throw it just throw it out
in the paddock sort of different to what we did
over on the share farm well so you're saying
he was chaffing up there and yeah he was he was
on the share farm he was chomping but when we
got where we are now he didn't do that he just
should just grow the saccharine plant it thick
says it only had little thin stalks and then
we just chuck it out in the paddock and that's
the way he was doing it and i kept doing that
for About five or six years. And then I made
silage in a pit. Dug a big trench in the ground.
I grew corn and did that. Did it different. And
then I gave that away. How did you cover it?
With dirt? Yeah, with dirt. I gave that away
and I made hay. I just grew pasture. And I worked
out how to do things. They used to have this
solids not fat test. And you always had, most
farmers had problems with it in the autumn and
the winter. And I worked it out one day. We never
had problems in the spring and the summer when
we had plenty of grass. So I've got to get that
grass grown in the autumn and the winter. And
I set about doing that. And that's when I completely
changed the farming practice, working that out.
and I worked that out. How did you sustain the
grasses in the colder weather? I used to put
a lot of fertiliser on and I started doing it
early in the year, like around this time of the
year, end of January, February. And it's a bit
of an art. You put it on and you get the grass
going and you keep the summer -grown grasses
off, like the past pale, because that's what
we had then. That was the summer. and you'd keep
the rye grass and that would come up and that
was the art in it. How would you keep the past
pale amount? You just keep chopping the top off
it, keeping it down. What fertiliser are you
using? I use different mixtures, proprietary
mixtures and then I was talking to an old guy,
farmer, and he says we use, there was this super
potash mix, K13 they used to call it, we use...
make up a mixture, a two to one mixture, two
bags of that to one bag of nitrum. That was a
nitrogenous fertiliser. The other, the pasture
13, that was super and potash. And he said, we
make up a mixture. I'll try that. That was cheaper
than the proprietary mixers. Who was that that
gave you that advice? Horry Blissett. Where were
they? Well, they used to farm out in Berry. Then
they were in Maroo, and he went up to Albion
Park. His son's still up there, actually, but
when he told me, he was pally with the guy that
eventually bought Joe Pestle's property, and
that's where I sort of, when I found out, I just
happened to be talking to him one day, and he
told me that, so I don't know whether he was
living in Maroo then or not. Come back, he was
there for a while, and then he, I don't know
where he went, he sold out. But anyway, they
used to farm up and help me in part. So just
getting back to that, so tell me how that was
working with what you were growing? Pasture,
ryegrass, clover and stuff. Was it improving?
Did you notice any difference? Yeah, because
I used to top dress every time I used to strip
graze the paddocks and I fenced the farm. Well,
I hadn't altered at all, but I altered to what
Dad was doing and fenced it different and had
some of it done. And I had small paddocks and
they only lasted two or three days. I'd eat them
out in two or three days and I would slash them
and top dress them every time I fed them off,
which was every about a month or six weeks. And
that was from January till about August, September.
I didn't do it over the summer. because they
didn't need it then, they had enough and they'd...
And how was the milk production? Well, I got
it going pretty good. By the time I got to all
that working good, and the other thing I did,
they used to, we got rid of the bulls and we
used to use the AI. We had a mixed herd early
in the piece and we used to, whatever, say it
was an AIS or a cross -bred cow, that one looks
like it's got a fair bit of AIS in it. We'll
use a red bull on her. That one, it looks like
it's got a bit of jersey, a fair bit of jersey.
We'll use a jersey. And that's what we're doing.
And the Friesians, they're all the different
ones. So you're breeding with the breed? Yeah,
staying with that breed. So Illawarra's you're
breeding, you're keeping the breed, you're keeping
the jerseys. Yeah, and the ones that we thought
were the crossbreed ones, well, they look like,
say, the Friesian or whatever's a bit dominant
in them. We'll stay with that, put that over.
Anyway. What was the methodology behind that?
What was your thinking? Well, save having crossbred
cows. We could do it. But any cows I bought,
I always bought Friesians later on. Before that,
if I bought any, I'd buy red ones or usually
red ones or Friesians. But I went to the Friesians
and I eventually ended up with a Friesian herd.
And that was an interesting thing. I bought two
registered cows, and they come from out of Col
Boldy's herd. They come out of there, but that's
not where I bought them from. Over Berry? Yeah,
in Berry, just up here in Rawlings Road. And
that's where he bred them, but I didn't buy them
off him. I bought them at another sale, and I
didn't go there to buy them. I was just at the
sale, and I just bought them. And they were cows
that come from that lamens. The original bred
down from them, from those lamins. The ones I
just showed you? Yeah, from them lamins in number.
Wow. The original stock from them, their ancestors.
So you knew about that history a bit? No, I just
bought them. I was just there and I just bought
them. You saw the composition of them, you liked
the look of them. Yeah, and I just bought them.
I don't know why, I just still don't know why
I bought them. Instinct. Yeah, and I bought them.
They were only a couple of hundred dollars each.
Yeah. Is that a good price? Yeah, it was. It
was cheap then at the time. Where are you buying
them? Well, I bought, for those ones, we were
at an auction sale. The bloke was giving up.
Where at? Fox Grand. Bill Mitchell, I think.
And I bought some other ones. They were only
grade cattle. Pat Barrett, he's a well -known
berry man. He was up at Goodhill. I bought four
of his cows. I bought two when they used to have
a sale yard in Berry. And this was back in the
early 70s. And they come from Guatemala or Woodhill
or somewhere up there in that vicinity. And then
we had some of our own freezings. Then they had
these proven bulls. They'd do a bull -proven
scheme. They'd use the bulls over so many things.
So they followed them, didn't they? Yeah, they
tested them and their milk and their butterfat
and all that. And I started using them. Some
of them were fairly expensive, and I couldn't
afford them. But I started, and this one bull
I used, and the guy that had the AI thing was
after they stopped doing it from, well, he was
still working out of the centre here, but he
had a private business. And I was using this
bull all the time, and he says, I think you should
use another bull. And then he says, I don't suppose
you could have too many of his heifers. And I
just kept using him all the time. And after I
got those heifers mature wooden, then I used
a different one over there. Ended up with a herd
of cows. And I was grass feeding them. And I
was getting up near an average of five gallons
of cow. Four and three quarter gallons of cow.
And this was in the 80s. I only had, I was milking
about 30. between 37 and 35, I'd say 35 and 40
in that range. I know one day, one stage I was
milking 33 and a neighbour come down and he was
all pumped up. He had Guernsey's and he said,
I've got 210 gallons today and he was all pumped
up. I didn't ask him how many he was milking.
I said, well, I'm not getting that much. I'm
only getting 150, but then I'm only milking 33.
I found out later he used to milk about 70. So
I was a long way ahead of him. Tell me about
your dairy. Was it a walk -through? Yeah, it
was a walk -through. We had two bales. We eventually
had them doubled up. We had four machines in
it eventually. Dad had two. He had three machines
because when he was over in the share farm, he
owned the machines. He brought them with us.
And he had three singles. And when we came, we
had one doubled up and one single. And then later
on we put another one in, so we had two double
ups. And I worked in that until 95. And then
we built an eight -a -side hearing bone, put
in an eight -a -side hearing bone. Did you increase
your herd? Yeah, it went up. I was milking nearly
100 at one stage. But when I was milking, I was
milking 77. And this is, I'll tell you, this
is a bit funny. The tanker driver come round.
I thought you would have been down these palmers
down the flats. Used to have these heifer sales,
these stud sales, selling stud heifers. Thought
you would have been down there getting some good
cows. What are their old things for? I says,
they're milking 120 and getting so much, they're
only averaging about four gallons a cow. I says,
I'm only milking 77. And I was getting 400. Actually,
one day I got over, I got 420 gallons, and according
to my calculations, it's about five and a half
gallons a cow. I said, we want to want them old
things for. How much land were you on there?
On the home property, I've got, it started off
with 117 acres when we got it. And later on,
after Dad died, Mum was, when she was fixing
things up, before she was, she took one house
and five acres and her and her sister, my sister,
my sister's got it now actually. And I had the
rest, the other house and the 112 acres. In 87,
I bought another property. It's about two kilometres
away. It's just round past the Ulmeroo School
on the bend of the highway there. We've got to
go down Pestles Lane, Boxers Lane and then along
the highway. So it's on the highway? Yeah, front
side of the highway. And how many acres have
you got there? 67. What are you... Farming today?
I've got beef cattle now, Angus beef cattle.
When did that transfer happen? End of 2008. What
was your thinking then? I couldn't make a pay,
paying wages, and I couldn't do the work myself.
Like I was nearly 62 then. If I would have been
30, I would have done it because I milked from
64 to 94, 95. I did it on my own all the time.
I employed a bloke, put him on, he was an apprentice,
and I went out, I wanted to have a go at, I used
to do a bit of contract work, but I wanted to
do a bit more of that, and that was the idea
of employing someone, but it didn't work very
good. I didn't make any money out of it, and
I was doing too much, and I sort of got sick,
and then I wasn't well. I had to put the guy
off because I couldn't make it pay. The last
four years I was on my own again, but it was
killing me. Anyway, I gave it away and ran the
beef cattle in, and I'm still doing it. I've
got myself into a pickle now. I've got too many
of them. How many have you got now? I don't know.
I've lost count of them. So are they at both
properties? I've only got a dozen on one property,
on the highway property. There's only a dozen
there. They wouldn't get... fat at home, so I
said, well, I'll put them over there and leave
them there until they do get the fat. I've got
about 150 at home, I think. What are they eating?
Grass. This kike here, that's... Is that naturally
grown? Yeah, it's taken over the whole farm now.
And I've got... It's not just the home, probably.
I've got about another 100 acres of Mark Marshall's
place, me cousin's place, up the joins on to
the back. I've got 100 acres up there as well.
but it's like a rubbish unit too. Is that near
Pestles? That's on the end of Bell's Lane. Where
was the water supplied? Town water? No, we still
haven't got town water. On the home place, I
have on the highway paddock, but on the original
farm, we still haven't got town water. We've
got, well, Dad dug a little dam up in the paddock,
and we gravitated down, but it didn't work in
the dry weather, so we used to... pumped the
water out of the creek. What creek's that? It's
a branch of Abernethy's Creek. And you still
have to resort to that today? No, before he died,
we put a pump on. We're still getting it out
of the creek, but we had a pressure pump down
into the thing. Before that, we used to have
to go up with the tractor and pump the water
and ground it into a tank and then gravitate
it back. But when he was crook, before he died,
he got this other pressure pump. put it on down
the dairy. What sort of piping are you using?
Well, the original one was all steel pipe. Well,
that bit of it was poly pipe. Later on, in the
1980s, I got a big dam dug up in the gully. That
was when things were good. It started to go good
because I had a good supply of water and it was
dry weather when we did it, but it started to
make a bit of water and we got a storm not long
after. and a fair bit of water, got a fair bit
of water in it. It was all muddy and everything.
But I used to siphon that down into the creek
and let it settle out and then pump it out. But
when I got that going, got that, all that, and
I put water troughs around the paddocks, really
improved because I had a better water supply
for the cattle. Before that, they just had to
drink out of the creek. That's tough times. And
then I had a... And then in the 90s, there was
this wet soak up in the... And the top corner,
nearly the highest part of the farm. And I was
on about it when I was 15 years old because I
said to Dad one day, I said, we ought to dig
this out. And he says, you can do that when you
take over. Well, that was in 1962 probably. Well,
in 1995, I got a bloke up with an excavator and
we dug this big hole up there and that's what
I used. rather than the other dam, because I
don't have to pump it. It gravitates down to
the dairy and then back up the paddock to the
troughs, and I don't have to pump it. How much
water? I don't know how many gallons would be
in it. Well, when they talk about swimming pools,
it might be nearly as big as a swimming pool,
a fair -sized hole, and it's about 12 foot deep.
The beef cattle, tell me the process of farming
beef and when you send them off to slaughter.
Well, I've got Angus cattle, and I rear them
up usually if everything goes good at wheeler
stage. We're 10, 12 months old. And then I just
send them to the market. What do you get for
one cow these days? I don't know just what the
market's like now. They go up and down. Yeah,
they were a few years ago. We were sending in
little 200 -kilo things and getting $1 ,900 for
them, $8 .50 a kilo, I think I got for the best
of them, one lot. And then that door fizzled
out, and one lot I sent in, another lot that
was like them, and the best I got out of them
was later on when the market was crook, was $1
.66, and there were some other bigger ones in
that load, $0 .40. A kilo. Where did you send
them to? Mossvale, mostly. They come and collect
them in a truck, do they? Yeah, I just bring
the carrier up and... Who's the carrier? Steve
Chittick. Chitticks? Yeah. Local person? They
used to be at Kiama, but he's gone up to Albyn
Park now, and I've sent them over to the sale
of Mossvale, to my own Martian Co. You never
married? A few people haven't married. Is it
just... or you prefer your own company? I don't
know. I don't know why. You probably had a lot
of responsibility as well and you were working
hard. What keeps you going? Well, I'm still trying
to keep the farm in good order. That was part
of my thing when I was young, to have it looking
really good. And it did look good too. And I
used to make things. Because that's actually
what I would have liked to have done, to have
done something rather than dairy. Some of the
things I've made, I've made up trailers and that
for use around the farm and I've made a tip and
body for a truck and stuff and a steel shed frame
and stuff like that. And then I started milking
more cows and I couldn't give time to do it.
What about your sister? Do you see her much?
Yeah, every day. Where does your house position
from hers? About 100 yards away. It should be
80 in August. Audrey comes down and helps me
do the cows sometimes. Do you have a stud name?
When I had the Friesian cattle, I was in the
Friesian Cattle Club for about two years. And
it was Mundroola stud, but I got out of that.
How did you spell the stud name? M -U -N -D -R
-O -O -L -A. That's the farm name, Mundroola.
When I give up dairy, I add... I went through
my little book one day where I kept account of
all the cows, and those two registered cows,
about two -thirds of the herd were descendants
of those two cows. What were their names? Blossom
and Peggy. It turns out Blossom and Peggy are
descendants of the celebrated Friesian stud at
Noomba. This podcast was assisted by a local
farming family. Turf Co, who have been operating
in and supporting the region for the past 40
years. They are the region's largest agricultural
employer and I'm grateful for their part support
toward realising and continuing the ongoing production.
I'd like to acknowledge the introductory research
undertaken by Joy Vost, who has done much research
on the Marshalls. and sadly passed away at the
beginning of this year. I've set up a donate
button should you wish to support this project
at my host site, rss .com. You can also visit
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Join me in a fortnight for episode three, Boxall's
Lane, featuring Richard Boxall.