WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.660 Welcome everyone to my new podcast, Therese Makes 00:00:03.660 --> 00:00:08.039 History. Well, my name is Therese Sweeney and 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:11.080 I've been producing history since the mid -90s. 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:15.199 I've initiated much of my work, spending my years 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:19.980 embedded in community, in the field, with residents 00:00:19.980 --> 00:00:23.160 in their homes, on their streets, at their clubs, 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:27.600 in their market gardens and farms, observing 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:31.510 with respect. their daily lives, capturing often 00:00:31.510 --> 00:00:35.250 communities that aren't seen by the wider populations. 00:00:35.929 --> 00:00:38.750 I have the luxury of being trained in both analog 00:00:38.750 --> 00:00:41.909 and digital technologies when I was at university, 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:45.570 although I taught myself the analog camera on 00:00:45.570 --> 00:00:48.689 the job. But I left the metropolis 13 years ago 00:00:48.689 --> 00:00:53.310 and moved down the south coast. My partner and 00:00:53.310 --> 00:00:56.429 I bought a lovely little dairy cottage. on some 00:00:56.429 --> 00:00:59.409 acreage at the end of Hannigan's Lane, Bolong. 00:01:00.109 --> 00:01:04.150 It was Harry Bell's old place. I was obsessed 00:01:04.150 --> 00:01:07.469 with the double silos that you could see over 00:01:07.469 --> 00:01:10.909 our fence. We were surrounded by 3 ,000 acres 00:01:10.909 --> 00:01:14.950 of land with beef cattle. I loved it. Canberra 00:01:14.950 --> 00:01:17.609 Mountain in the distance felt very supportive. 00:01:18.010 --> 00:01:20.590 Why did I get obsessed with the silos? I never 00:01:20.590 --> 00:01:23.189 stopped photographing them, but at the time... 00:01:23.950 --> 00:01:27.349 I had begun a major commission with Belgany Farm 00:01:27.349 --> 00:01:30.670 Camden Park Estate, which is owned by the Department 00:01:30.670 --> 00:01:34.709 of Primary Industries, fundamentally recreating 00:01:34.709 --> 00:01:38.569 20th century history through the voices and knowledge 00:01:38.569 --> 00:01:44.370 held by former employees of the estate. Many, 00:01:44.430 --> 00:01:48.629 many dairy hands, workers associated with the 00:01:48.629 --> 00:01:52.489 dairy industry and managers. Of course, there 00:01:52.489 --> 00:01:55.010 was a big research centre there. So I suppose 00:01:55.010 --> 00:01:58.049 I started to like dairying whilst I was living 00:01:58.049 --> 00:02:00.890 down here. We ended up moving off the land and 00:02:00.890 --> 00:02:04.609 for the last two years have lived in Berry. What 00:02:04.609 --> 00:02:07.790 I'm doing is initiating a project which I'm calling 00:02:07.790 --> 00:02:11.310 the Dairy Lane Project. Between Bomaderry and 00:02:11.310 --> 00:02:15.169 Berry, there are approximately 18 lanes, most 00:02:15.169 --> 00:02:19.219 named after pioneering dairy families. dating 00:02:19.219 --> 00:02:24.039 back to the 1850s. White Anglo -Saxon Europeans 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:28.520 that migrated here. After David Berry's death 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:33.060 in 1889, the first subdivision of the lands accumulated 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:36.939 by that family were released for sale to the 00:02:36.939 --> 00:02:41.419 general public. Some 60 ,000 acres. Many of the 00:02:41.419 --> 00:02:43.939 tenants that were leasing the lands from the 00:02:43.939 --> 00:02:48.210 estate were in a position then to purchase. And 00:02:48.210 --> 00:02:51.229 the descendants of those lands are the people 00:02:51.229 --> 00:02:54.370 that I'm engaging for this project. This is a 00:02:54.370 --> 00:02:58.129 colonial history. I now introduce to you Robin 00:02:58.129 --> 00:03:02.270 Florence, OAM. Robin is a known local historian 00:03:02.270 --> 00:03:06.129 in the region and has been writing books for 00:03:06.129 --> 00:03:10.110 local history societies since the 1970s. He's 00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:14.550 highly regarded. So I welcome Robin to participate 00:03:14.550 --> 00:03:17.919 in an interview with me in... in positioning 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:22.860 the beginning of this vast, daring history. How 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:28.120 long have your family been in Bury? My grandfather, 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:31.500 my great -grandfather came here on the Bury estate 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:36.039 in the 1890s. Was that paternal side or maternal? 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:39.060 That must have been paternal side. And he had 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:43.180 a farm at Mullian and my grandfather, Harold 00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:47.030 Bruce Fenwick Holland, was born. there in 1895. 00:03:48.449 --> 00:03:52.590 And what about the maternal side? My maternal 00:03:52.590 --> 00:03:55.909 side, my grandmother, I called her Ma and I called 00:03:55.909 --> 00:03:58.009 my grandfather Bruce because that's the only 00:03:58.009 --> 00:04:02.810 name I ever heard him called. She was born in 00:04:02.810 --> 00:04:08.050 Tooba Tooba in 1904 and came to Broughton Vale. 00:04:09.099 --> 00:04:12.300 to stay with friends and they went out to Seven 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:15.960 Mile Beach and they met my grandfather and ended 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:18.459 up getting married in the Presbyterian Church 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:22.420 in Victoria Street, but it was the one at the 00:04:22.420 --> 00:04:24.240 top of the hill, not the one down the bottom. 00:04:26.779 --> 00:04:30.439 So Berry had its own council, did it? Can you 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.819 explain that and maybe what time frame, if you 00:04:32.819 --> 00:04:35.459 recall? All right, so there were seven councils 00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:38.060 in the time when the Municipalities Act came 00:04:38.060 --> 00:04:41.740 into being in the 1890s. So then there was Broughton 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:44.720 Vale Council, there was Gerringong Municipal 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.980 Council, Bumaderry, well, it was Bumaderry and 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:53.360 Bury Council, Clydeshire Council, Canberra Council, 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.300 South Narrow Shalehaven Council, and they all, 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:01.399 in 1948, they all joined and became Shalehaven 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:06.689 Shire Council. Then in 1979, they became Shoalhaven 00:05:06.689 --> 00:05:10.009 City Council. Because the areas really had their 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:14.009 own lives. Like even Jasper's Brush, for example, 00:05:14.009 --> 00:05:16.730 had its own entertainment, had its own railway 00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:21.290 station. Most of the little villages, they usually 00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:24.170 had a school. Not all of them had a shop or a 00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:27.129 store. The post office was usually in the school. 00:05:27.350 --> 00:05:32.389 So there was an area in this... residents of 00:05:32.389 --> 00:05:35.110 the school for the post office how many sawmills 00:05:35.110 --> 00:05:39.709 were there around then most places had a sawmill 00:05:39.709 --> 00:05:42.089 because the timber was one thing that they built 00:05:42.089 --> 00:05:46.769 their houses for so yeah um i'm not sure of how 00:05:46.769 --> 00:05:49.990 many were in actually very malloy's had a sawmill 00:05:49.990 --> 00:05:54.329 down near the railway station but my great -grandfather's 00:05:54.329 --> 00:05:57.269 was in victoria street that went back to princess 00:05:57.269 --> 00:06:02.910 street and What were they cutting? I can't tell 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:04.850 you what he was cutting. I've got photos of him 00:06:04.850 --> 00:06:10.689 sitting in the sawmill. But he did a lot of jobs. 00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:13.889 So timber cutting was one thing, but he was also 00:06:13.889 --> 00:06:17.569 a milk carter. They did all sorts of jobs in 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:20.670 those days. They weren't just specific. But he 00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:24.430 employed a fair few people, yeah. So was all 00:06:24.430 --> 00:06:26.829 the cedar gone then, or was he cutting cedar, 00:06:26.829 --> 00:06:28.879 you think? He would have been getting it from 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:34.660 Woodhill Mountain. So he lived at Woodhill. And 00:06:34.660 --> 00:06:38.819 when the butter factory went into liquidation, 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:41.519 he actually purchased the building and moved 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.439 all the timber down and built a house adjoining 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:48.860 his sawmill in Victoria Street. So this is all 00:06:48.860 --> 00:06:53.660 pre -mechanisation? Well, yeah, 1930s. We used 00:06:53.660 --> 00:06:58.379 to walk everywhere. So tell me a walk. Well, 00:06:58.579 --> 00:07:00.860 Victoria Street in those days to the Princess 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:04.800 Highway wasn't opened. And I used to walk up 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.160 Victoria Street to the, I think it's on George 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:12.620 Street. And then the Blackberries were there 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:14.959 and we used to pick Blackberries and take them 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.100 home and she used to make jam and pies out of 00:07:17.100 --> 00:07:19.839 them. And then we often walked up over the hill 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:25.750 to friends of hers. And we often walked to Crozier's 00:07:25.750 --> 00:07:28.350 Lane in Jasper's Brush because my auntie lived 00:07:28.350 --> 00:07:32.930 on the corner in the blue house. And sometimes 00:07:32.930 --> 00:07:35.550 I can remember my grandfather coming to pick 00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:38.110 us up because he had a... It's an Austin Prefect, 00:07:38.230 --> 00:07:40.949 is it? The little car? Yeah. What colour was 00:07:40.949 --> 00:07:46.110 the car? Green. With the lanes, were they named? 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:50.290 A lot of places... Well, where I was born, for 00:07:50.290 --> 00:07:53.509 example, it didn't have a number. It was Dundee. 00:07:53.930 --> 00:07:56.509 I was born at Dundee, Victoria Street, Bury. 00:07:57.629 --> 00:08:00.829 And, well, if you had a lane. So Hitchcock's 00:08:00.829 --> 00:08:03.449 lived on the end of a lane which is called Muller's 00:08:03.449 --> 00:08:09.910 Lane. I didn't take notice of the names then. 00:08:10.290 --> 00:08:13.110 Crozier's, I used to walk up to the Forks' right 00:08:13.110 --> 00:08:16.009 at the end of Jasper's, Crozier's Lane. Yeah. 00:08:16.769 --> 00:08:19.589 Was it called Crozier's? I've got no idea. I 00:08:19.589 --> 00:08:23.910 was only six. Yeah. I'm only remembering things 00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:26.170 that, yeah. How did you get across the highway? 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:28.930 So it was a road. There was no traffic then. 00:08:29.490 --> 00:08:31.949 Yes. We used to walk. I can remember walking. 00:08:32.850 --> 00:08:37.529 Wish I could walk now. Well, you're on the go 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:41.250 for now, are you? I don't mean, in case you are, 00:08:41.330 --> 00:08:45.250 I don't mean to be disrespectful. Okay, so you 00:08:45.250 --> 00:08:49.950 walked. So what did Berry look like? Was it little 00:08:49.950 --> 00:08:55.600 cottages, little wooden cottages? I used to walk 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.700 every week. I used to walk down there to Bury 00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:02.740 with my grandfather to go to pick up the Bury 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:08.419 Register. Mr Higgins was the editor of the Bury 00:09:08.419 --> 00:09:11.120 Register then and he lived down in the corner 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:13.360 of Victoria Street and I used to play with his 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:20.919 daughter. Don't remember very much about houses. 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:23.220 I don't suppose I was interested in the houses. 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:26.080 What about the showground? Was that operating? 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.799 Yeah, the showground was operating and we used 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:34.580 to go to the Berry Show. We'd sit in the... I 00:09:34.580 --> 00:09:36.659 can't remember going to the Berry Show with my 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:39.720 grandparents or my parents, but I took my own 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:41.679 children to the Berry Show with my grandmother. 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.700 Yeah. What were some of the big names there? 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:49.950 Do you recall sort of the... The big shorthorn 00:09:49.950 --> 00:09:53.269 breeders? There was a lot of them, but I wasn't 00:09:53.269 --> 00:09:56.789 a farm girl. I was interested in the cattle parade 00:09:56.789 --> 00:10:00.750 and the horse jumping and the wood chopping that 00:10:00.750 --> 00:10:04.090 went on, yes. Did you ride horses yourself? Only 00:10:04.090 --> 00:10:07.629 later, not when I was in Bury. So you got married 00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:12.590 to who and when? I got married to a Paul Florence 00:10:12.590 --> 00:10:19.539 in 1917. And I have three beautiful children, 00:10:19.899 --> 00:10:26.159 Michelle, Matthew and Nicole. And Matthew lives 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.840 at Shoalhaven Heads and Nicole lives in Shepparton 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:33.360 in Victoria and sadly Michelle died of cancer 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:40.179 five years ago. Sorry to hear that. Okay, so 00:10:40.179 --> 00:10:43.200 did you have anything to do with Nauru or was 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.740 it just Barry when you were sort of growing up? 00:10:45.740 --> 00:10:47.870 I didn't have anything to do with Nauru. I can't 00:10:47.870 --> 00:10:53.610 remember even... I used to watch outside Fosseys. 00:10:54.389 --> 00:10:59.669 My uncle was in the Nowra Town Band and his brother 00:10:59.669 --> 00:11:03.610 was George Seymour and I can remember standing 00:11:03.610 --> 00:11:06.970 outside what was Fosseys building then and they 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:08.730 had caps in their hand while they were playing 00:11:08.730 --> 00:11:13.049 music to raise money, funds, but that's about 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:15.110 it. I can't remember anything else about Nowra. 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:17.980 Were they raising funds for...? For the town 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:21.340 band. For the town band. Seymour boys were in 00:11:21.340 --> 00:11:25.279 it and the Harvey boys were in it, yeah. So Berry 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:29.399 used to be called another name, didn't it? Broughton 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.480 Creek. Yeah, so...? Well, Broughton Creek, well, 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.899 Broughton, it's part of the Berry estate and 00:11:35.899 --> 00:11:37.940 it was called after Broughton because of the 00:11:37.940 --> 00:11:39.899 Broughton Creek. Yeah, so the Broughton Creek 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:42.159 went through it, yeah. So Bomaderry's got a creek 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:47.879 as well. Okay, now for those people that don't 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:50.620 know briefly, I'm going to ask a bit of description 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:53.159 of the Berries, the names. So I've got them written 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.460 here. I know two of them. All right. So Alex. 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:03.779 Alexander Berry. Yeah. He was, I suppose, an 00:12:03.779 --> 00:12:06.840 entrepreneur in what we call them today. And 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:11.440 he came down to the south coast in 1822 and spied 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.179 a property he liked and he called it Koolangatta. 00:12:14.730 --> 00:12:18.889 And that's where the very estate started. It 00:12:18.889 --> 00:12:25.590 was 10 ,000 acres to start with. And he had a 00:12:25.590 --> 00:12:29.250 few convicts. So then he had his brothers come 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:34.250 out from Scotland. And his brothers and assistants 00:12:34.250 --> 00:12:36.590 just came out from Scotland and they stayed at 00:12:36.590 --> 00:12:39.929 Coolangatta. And he moved up to Crow's Nest and 00:12:39.929 --> 00:12:43.230 lived up there with his partner, Wollstonecraft. 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:50.059 and then a brother died, John Dry died. Do you 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:53.480 know when he died, roughly? In the 1870s, no. 00:12:53.659 --> 00:12:56.179 Yeah, 1870s, from a fall from a horse. Yeah, 00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:59.559 he died, and so then they started... David Berry 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:02.320 actually was the one who started all the tenants, 00:13:02.419 --> 00:13:05.960 and they started tenants' farms. So you had tenant 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.220 farms from Gerongong, Tuladura, Foxground, Broughton 00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:13.120 Village, Canberra, oh, this northern side of 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:20.240 the river, Shullaven Heads. Bolong. And then 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.100 on the southern side of the river, they had Number, 00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:25.480 Upper Number, Pyree, Greenwood Point. It was 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:30.279 a vast, vast estate. Who was William Berry? Do 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:34.940 you remember him? He was a brother. He died as 00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:37.840 well. So all that was left was David in the end. 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:41.240 And David ran the estate with his cousin Sir 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:44.679 John Hay. And David Berry's will, he left a lot 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.120 of money to St Andrews University in Scotland 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.379 and other things and he had to sell off some 00:13:50.379 --> 00:13:54.440 of the land. Most of the tenants who occupied 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:58.700 the farms from the 1860s were allowed to purchase 00:13:58.700 --> 00:14:02.639 their properties if they wanted to. So a lot 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.799 of the tenant farmers actually bought the properties 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.440 they'd been renting for years. So we're talking 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:12.690 sort of from the Church of England. Yeah, so 00:14:12.690 --> 00:14:16.429 the Wesleyans or the primitive Methodist or the 00:14:16.429 --> 00:14:19.129 Methodist, they were around because you've got 00:14:19.129 --> 00:14:21.169 a lot of those early churches were Wesleyan. 00:14:22.230 --> 00:14:25.750 What is Wesleyan? Wesleyan was after John Wesley 00:14:25.750 --> 00:14:29.149 and he was the minister and, well, primitive 00:14:29.149 --> 00:14:34.470 Methodist they used to be called. And so that's 00:14:34.470 --> 00:14:36.870 why you've got churches. So the church at Maroo 00:14:36.870 --> 00:14:41.269 was built. by the estate, and the one at Greenwood 00:14:41.269 --> 00:14:46.110 Point was built by the estate. The auctioneers, 00:14:46.149 --> 00:14:48.309 did you ever hear... You know Stuart and Morton 00:14:48.309 --> 00:14:49.690 were the auctioneers. Stuart and Morton. John 00:14:49.690 --> 00:14:54.850 Stuart lived at Menanga, at Bury, and the Morton 00:14:54.850 --> 00:14:57.710 family, well, they were at number to start with. 00:14:57.909 --> 00:15:02.710 HG Morton then went to... He came out and worked 00:15:02.710 --> 00:15:07.549 for Alexander Bury. And then his sons, he had 00:15:07.549 --> 00:15:10.789 eight sons. I think it was eight sons. And, yeah, 00:15:10.929 --> 00:15:12.950 so that's where the auction is, Stuart and Morton. 00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:17.210 So there was a lot of land being sold. Oh, yes, 00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:20.289 a lot of land. And because Morton was very well 00:15:20.289 --> 00:15:24.669 known by the Berry family and Sir John Hay and 00:15:24.669 --> 00:15:29.330 Alex Hay, that's when, yeah, they started. And 00:15:29.330 --> 00:15:31.850 what about Stuart from Berry? Well, he was the 00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:35.580 first Stuart. It was the postmaster at Bury on 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:38.659 the bottom end of Menenga. That's where the post 00:15:38.659 --> 00:15:42.700 office was. The silos were built in the 19... 00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:45.580 Well, the ones at Bolong were built by Tetley 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:49.639 and he didn't build them until the 1930s. But 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:52.159 you've got to remember that these were farmers 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:55.059 and their only social life was either the church 00:15:55.059 --> 00:16:03.519 or sport. So you've got Bury magpies. They were 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.059 playing football in the 1880s. And that club 00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:09.320 still exists to this day? And that club still 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.139 exists. Even though it was rugby union, it still 00:16:12.139 --> 00:16:16.980 exists as a league club. Do you recall the clubs 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:21.379 that started up? Was there anything at Jasper's 00:16:21.379 --> 00:16:24.139 Brush, for example? Jasper's Brush had the School 00:16:24.139 --> 00:16:27.799 of Arts and I think they had a tennis club. A 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.220 lot of them played tennis. Broughton Village 00:16:30.220 --> 00:16:32.879 had a tennis club and they used to play Maroo. 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:39.120 I can't remember Jasper's Brush. And Berry. And 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:44.360 Tula Jua, Crooked River. Yeah, so sport was the 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.279 main thing. So the farmers, they had to have 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:49.620 something to get them away from the farm. Most 00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:53.840 of the cricket was played between milking. So 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.220 they'd start so they could get home to milk. 00:16:56.590 --> 00:16:59.409 Yeah. Sorry, were the cricket grounds not just 00:16:59.409 --> 00:17:01.389 something made? They were just something made, 00:17:01.470 --> 00:17:03.129 so they'd have a pitch on a paddock somewhere, 00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:05.630 so they'd have to pick up all the cowpats before 00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:08.670 they played. Yeah, so it was like the golf club 00:17:08.670 --> 00:17:13.190 in Bury. Before you... The golf club started 00:17:13.190 --> 00:17:17.450 in the 1940s, I think, on a private property, 00:17:17.609 --> 00:17:21.369 and so before you played golf, you had to go 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:24.410 around and pick up all the cowpats and make it 00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:28.400 so you could play. Are you still in Bury today? 00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:32.680 No, I live in Bomaderry. Okay, so there was quite 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.880 a lot of land being sold at Bomaderry as well 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.140 in that, you know, from an early part. At the 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:43.980 same time. So Bomaderry was 1859, Bomaderry began, 00:17:44.259 --> 00:17:49.640 and it was a very estate property, and then it 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.359 was sold off in the 1890s. Would they have all 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:57.490 been farmers predominantly? You had blacksmiths. 00:17:58.170 --> 00:18:01.690 You had other things. The milk had to be carted 00:18:01.690 --> 00:18:03.730 somewhere, so you had all those sorts of jobs 00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:06.529 that went with the farming. You had the butter 00:18:06.529 --> 00:18:09.569 makers, and then most of them had a small little 00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:13.089 factory. So, for example, Jasper's Brush had 00:18:13.089 --> 00:18:16.950 a little butter factory. So people worked there. 00:18:17.130 --> 00:18:20.109 You had to have someone to bring the milk in, 00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:22.859 weigh it. Yeah, all those sorts of things. So 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:25.339 they weren't just farmers because farmers still 00:18:25.339 --> 00:18:27.559 had their other services that they had to use, 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:33.299 yeah. What produce was being grown? Wheat was 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:35.539 no good because it started to get rust, so you 00:18:35.539 --> 00:18:37.880 don't have anything like that. But I think they 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.960 grew sorghum and those sorts of grasses to feed 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.000 back to their cattle, and they had horses as 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.220 well, yeah. There would have been a lot of land 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:49.970 clearing. There was a lot of land clearing, and 00:18:49.970 --> 00:18:53.029 in those early days, that's what the tenant farmers... 00:18:53.029 --> 00:18:57.049 So, say, for example, in 1850, someone took up 00:18:57.049 --> 00:18:59.769 a grant at Jasper's Brush, they might get... 00:18:59.769 --> 00:19:04.809 start off with 60 acres, and they'd only pay... 00:19:04.809 --> 00:19:07.950 They wouldn't pay anything until they'd cleared 00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:10.329 a bit of land, and then the estate would build 00:19:10.329 --> 00:19:13.329 them a house, and then they would pay off the 00:19:13.329 --> 00:19:16.509 house. And a lot of... Early records, it says 00:19:16.509 --> 00:19:19.990 they were paid by bushels of wheat. But then 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:23.710 later on, it wasn't. They had to pay by pound, 00:19:23.789 --> 00:19:29.309 yeah. So it started off as a barter. Well, it 00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:34.210 was like that. They gave them free rent, I think 00:19:34.210 --> 00:19:37.089 it was for two years, while they cleared the 00:19:37.089 --> 00:19:40.829 land. It's a hell of a job, isn't it? Yeah, it 00:19:40.829 --> 00:19:42.369 was a big job because you've got to remember 00:19:42.369 --> 00:19:46.150 there was no... It was just axe. I've seen some 00:19:46.150 --> 00:19:48.769 of the equipment. Young Richard Box will show 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:52.910 me a few things. Maroo Meadow and Bomaderry. 00:19:53.089 --> 00:19:57.049 They were called two separate names because Bomaderry 00:19:57.049 --> 00:20:00.029 was a different area. That's right. So they were 00:20:00.029 --> 00:20:01.789 all different areas. They were all little villages. 00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:05.930 Can you define the Bomaderry area for me? Okay, 00:20:06.009 --> 00:20:09.470 so Bomaderry went from the northern part of the 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:13.569 Shoalhaven River out to a boundary with Bolong. 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:20.589 on one side, and Canberra on the other, and Maroo 00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:27.369 Boundary. Now, Maroo Boundary, I think, started 00:20:27.369 --> 00:20:32.809 at Exeter Farm. I'm not sure, but Fletcher's 00:20:32.809 --> 00:20:37.289 Lane in Bomaderry was Fletcher's Lane in Maroo 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:40.009 at one stage. So they've changed the boundaries. 00:20:40.750 --> 00:20:45.359 Bomaderry, in those early days... Until the railway 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.460 came, there wasn't a lot of... Bombardier was 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:51.680 really on the other side of the railway line, 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.680 so it was called Bombardier Point. And so you 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.299 didn't have transport like you've got today. 00:20:57.380 --> 00:20:59.799 You had the punts and ferries crossing the Shoalhaven 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.940 River. And they would come up Broughton Creek 00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:07.440 and they had a store there and they had a wharf. 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.960 And then you'd go to Bolong. and you'd go up 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:16.500 Broughton Creek, and you had the ferry house 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:23.700 and the punt to go across the river. And in 1904, 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.299 it didn't really start, Bummerderry really didn't 00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:30.940 start moving. They had a small school that was 00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:37.000 started by a farmer's wife, and they didn't have 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.599 a lot. The Presbyterian Sunday School wasn't 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.950 built till 1895, so... Nothing really started 00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:50.390 until the land was sold. Okay. Koolangatta, the 00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:52.750 estate, the old estate that still exists today, 00:21:52.829 --> 00:21:56.049 is that for sale at the moment? Yes. It's a big 00:21:56.049 --> 00:22:01.250 thing, isn't it? Yes, a big thing. $14 million 00:22:01.250 --> 00:22:05.039 or something. Okay, so... For those that don't 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.039 know, Koolangatta Estate are the original farming 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.200 buildings. Was it like Camden Park to a degree? 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:15.180 Yes, sort of like Camden Park. They had a big 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:22.059 area. Like a main farm? No, they had the farm, 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:28.160 but because it was all rented, they were all 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.519 on lease around the big farm. So the big farm 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.609 was like the service centre. In the early days, 00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:38.650 Jimmy Suna, a Chinese, he was their storekeeper. 00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:41.829 He was their, I suppose, keeper of their stock 00:22:41.829 --> 00:22:44.509 and things, and people used to go to him and 00:22:44.509 --> 00:22:47.769 they'd be handed out their rations or if they 00:22:47.769 --> 00:22:51.150 wanted to buy food, and he'd look after that 00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:54.349 for them. What was his last name? Suna, S -U 00:22:54.349 --> 00:22:59.609 -N -A. And do you know about him? Tell me about 00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:05.180 Jimmy. And you're laughing. When the convict 00:23:05.180 --> 00:23:09.099 system finished, they had a lot of trouble finding 00:23:09.099 --> 00:23:14.480 workers because a lot of the farmers were leased. 00:23:14.619 --> 00:23:18.839 And so they brought out German immigrants to 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.019 do the wine growing and they were called vine 00:23:21.019 --> 00:23:26.740 dressers. And they brought out Chinese and they 00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:30.230 brought some from Maoris from New Zealand. to 00:23:30.230 --> 00:23:34.069 look after, to work for them. You had a lot of 00:23:34.069 --> 00:23:36.470 Chinese, but you had a lot of Aboriginal workers 00:23:36.470 --> 00:23:38.990 on the estate too that married into them. So 00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:42.049 you had the Germans. So to start off with the 00:23:42.049 --> 00:23:45.230 Chinese, we had Jimmy Suna, we had the Gosangs, 00:23:45.250 --> 00:23:50.009 and I can't tell you any other names at the moment 00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:51.789 because it's out of my head. Do you know how 00:23:51.789 --> 00:23:57.210 to spell the Gosangs? G -O -S -A -N -G. and I 00:23:57.210 --> 00:23:59.549 wrote a history of the Chinese in Shoalhaven, 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.849 and I wrote the history of the Germans in Shoalhaven. 00:24:03.069 --> 00:24:06.150 Okay, so you've spoken about the Chinese. What 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:11.109 era is this? 1850s. Gee, that's early. This is 00:24:11.109 --> 00:24:14.890 after convicts. So 1849, the convicts really 00:24:14.890 --> 00:24:19.890 stopped, and so they had to look for other migrants 00:24:19.890 --> 00:24:21.910 or people. That's when they thought the Germans 00:24:21.910 --> 00:24:27.539 came out, and as soon as 1855. Chinese immigrants. 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:29.680 Can I go to Jasper's Brush? And they had a railway 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.480 station there that's no longer theirs. Yep. Would 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.019 have been built for the creamery or what? No. 00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:40.759 So in 1893, the railway only went to what we 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:48.079 call now is... It was North Kiama. It never crossed 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.000 the creek, so it had to come into Kiama. So in 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:58.759 1893, they extended the railway. to Kiama and 00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:01.839 all the way down to Bumadiri. Now, they couldn't 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.160 go across the bridge at the time because the 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:08.299 bridge was not heavy enough, couldn't carry the 00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:11.740 weight of an engine because we've got diesel 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.240 and fuel engines here now and they're very heavy. 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:17.859 And even when they built the new bridge, they 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:20.420 couldn't get to the bottom with all the equipment 00:25:20.420 --> 00:25:23.130 and everything they've got. The railway came 00:25:23.130 --> 00:25:26.670 through in 1893 and it came through most of the 00:25:26.670 --> 00:25:28.630 Berry Estate. And when it came through the Berry 00:25:28.630 --> 00:25:32.009 Estate at Jasper's Brush, David Berry gave the 00:25:32.009 --> 00:25:36.210 land for the railway station. So you had one 00:25:36.210 --> 00:25:40.329 that started off with Koyama, then you had Rose 00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:51.130 Valley, then Omega, Gerongong, Tuladua, Berry. 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:58.900 Jasper's Brush and Bomaderry. That's quite a 00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:00.920 few stops. There was a lot of stops, but they 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:04.460 used them because once the transport came, that 00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:06.319 was the best thing because they could send their 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.960 milk to Sydney on the train. So these might have 00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:15.839 been properties, perhaps, or...? Yeah, it was 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.420 all estate properties. From Djerongong down, 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:23.450 it was all very estate. Yeah. Yeah. On that side 00:26:23.450 --> 00:26:27.670 of the highway that has a lot of water, so on 00:26:27.670 --> 00:26:33.829 the Bolong side, what sort of impacts were the 00:26:33.829 --> 00:26:39.289 floods and the water on production? On Bolong? 00:26:39.309 --> 00:26:42.569 Oh, just all through there. Yeah, Maroo Meadow. 00:26:42.869 --> 00:26:45.690 Yeah, the whole lot. It was awful, but that's 00:26:45.690 --> 00:26:48.829 how it was. That's how they cleared the land, 00:26:48.970 --> 00:26:52.740 but the water was still coming down. Yeah. So 00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:56.240 in 18, there was Torera and those sort of places 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.539 were wiped out. So Bolong lost a lot of land, 00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:05.180 a lot of land where the punt used to go across. 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.240 That area was in the middle of the river now 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.140 because the river's just taken the sides of the 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:16.220 land and always will, yeah. So the floods had 00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:19.180 a big impact, but they all got over it and... 00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:22.579 What happened with their lives? As they do today. 00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:27.000 Yeah, yeah. But it did affect some crops probably. 00:27:27.259 --> 00:27:29.019 Probably, yeah, the crops would have, and they 00:27:29.019 --> 00:27:30.420 would have had to get their cattle. They lost 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:33.180 a lot of cattle, and they had to move their cattle 00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:34.880 to higher land. Well, at Bolong, when did they 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.500 move their cattle to higher land? There's no 00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:40.279 higher land. I recall I read something where 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.579 a lot of the farms originally that came to Bolong 00:27:42.579 --> 00:27:45.160 moved north. Yeah, a lot of people went to the 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.099 Richmond River. They all went to the Richmond 00:27:48.099 --> 00:27:50.700 River. So if you read anything about it, whether 00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.779 you're in Foxground, whether you're in Bolong, 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.759 they went to the Richmond River. Where is the 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:01.839 best land in this Shoalhaven region? Where the 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:07.059 farms are. Yeah, where the farms are. So I'd 00:28:07.059 --> 00:28:11.839 say, well, Garrity's farm at Bolong, Glen Albus, 00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:17.470 it was really flooded. And the boundary of it 00:28:17.470 --> 00:28:22.509 is the Shoalhaven River, so it's always been 00:28:22.509 --> 00:28:25.950 under. And that's where the Manildra factory 00:28:25.950 --> 00:28:27.990 is and everything out there, so you can know 00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:31.349 where all the water is. In the early days of 00:28:31.349 --> 00:28:34.309 Manildra, were they processing dry milk? Yeah, 00:28:34.329 --> 00:28:37.710 malted milk. What era there are we talking about? 00:28:37.710 --> 00:28:40.730 I used to have malted milk in my drinks, my uncle, 00:28:40.849 --> 00:28:43.819 when I used to come down to visit. It was a malted 00:28:43.819 --> 00:28:46.700 milk factory. Is that when you get a malted milkshake? 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:50.000 Yes. You used to buy it in a container and spoon 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.180 it in. I can remember it was a creamy colour. 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:54.819 I can remember a creamy colour and we missed 00:28:54.819 --> 00:28:59.160 to put spoonfuls in your milk. Most of us might 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.480 have only had... I remember getting a milkshake 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.940 having a caramel malted milkshake. You don't 00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:07.319 get them anymore. You can't see them malted anymore. 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.289 So what... Did I ask what sort of era that was? 00:29:11.329 --> 00:29:12.829 It was when you were a little girl? Yeah, that's 00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:18.769 the 50s. Yeah, still the 50s, yeah. How important 00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:21.670 was dairying to this region? It was a chief, 00:29:21.750 --> 00:29:24.690 obviously a chief industry. It wasn't the only 00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:27.309 industry, really, that did anything for this 00:29:27.309 --> 00:29:31.369 area. It was dairying. There's a lot of the timber 00:29:31.369 --> 00:29:33.670 places like Tomarong and those sorts of places. 00:29:34.830 --> 00:29:37.309 Kangaroo Valley. Well, Kangaroo Valley wasn't 00:29:37.309 --> 00:29:39.630 the Berry Estate, so it was the Osborne Estate. 00:29:40.190 --> 00:29:44.049 And Tomarong wasn't the Berry Estate. So, yeah, 00:29:44.150 --> 00:29:47.349 completely different. I wonder how Kangaroo Valley 00:29:47.349 --> 00:29:51.910 feels about Berry. Yeah, very close. A lot of 00:29:51.910 --> 00:29:54.049 families went to Kangaroo Valley or Kangaroo 00:29:54.049 --> 00:29:58.009 Valley. In those early days, without being awful, 00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:00.170 they used to get married over the back fence. 00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:06.490 So there wasn't a lot of people around. Mrs Macaulay's 00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:09.329 daughter would marry Mr Smith's daughter and 00:30:09.329 --> 00:30:12.269 they'd move and then they might move to Kangaroo 00:30:12.269 --> 00:30:16.589 Valley and, yeah. So it wasn't arranged, but 00:30:16.589 --> 00:30:18.089 that's what happened. Yeah, that's what happened, 00:30:18.130 --> 00:30:20.589 yeah. So that's where they met. That's why you 00:30:20.589 --> 00:30:22.609 had a school of arts at Jasper's Brush where 00:30:22.609 --> 00:30:25.730 people could meet and dance. You had the Maroo 00:30:25.730 --> 00:30:28.869 Hall at Maroo. You had the Berry School of Arts 00:30:28.869 --> 00:30:31.240 and you had... But yeah, so everywhere there 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:33.619 was somewhere that you could actually go to meet 00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:37.200 people. Yeah, Bumaderry had a hall where you 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.480 could go dancing. How would they all get there? 00:30:40.099 --> 00:30:43.160 Horse and cart in the early days. There used 00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.720 to be a bus that went from Nowra to Bumaderry 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.599 to pick up people to take them to the Maroo, 00:30:50.660 --> 00:30:53.599 Jasper's, I think it was Jasper's Brush as well 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:55.720 as Bumaderry. They used to, and then they'd have 00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:59.279 dances, yeah. So when you say Fletcher's Lane, 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.559 do you know who Fletcher's Lane was named after? 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:04.480 Because I do want to talk about, just briefly, 00:31:04.660 --> 00:31:07.680 you know. Well, Fletcher's, yeah, the Fletchers 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.680 lived in Fletcher's Lane. John Fletcher, if I 00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:13.839 can remember correctly, John Fletcher, yes. And 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:18.160 they had a property there and they had something 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:25.000 to do with the Jasper's Brush or Maroo Butter 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:28.240 Factory. So they were all... Come back to me 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.160 another time. Yeah, I will. Okay, I'll give you 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:34.619 a call. So, I know it's hard, isn't it, when 00:31:34.619 --> 00:31:38.359 there's a lot of information in that brain. Too 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:44.440 much. Yep. So, all the lanes from Bomaderry to 00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:48.539 Bury are named after dairy farmers? Most. Most. 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.259 Schofields Lane, for example, that I came... 00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:55.180 Schofield's Lane was named after Schofield the 00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:58.759 Butcher in Bury and he had his cattle, he probably 00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:01.640 would have had his cattle out where Schofield's 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:04.960 Lane is now. Then his son moved to Nowra and 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:07.099 we've got a Schofield's Lane in Nowra because 00:32:07.099 --> 00:32:09.180 his son had the butcher shop on the corner of 00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:14.380 Schofield's Lane. Pirie Lane is named just because 00:32:14.380 --> 00:32:16.539 it was Pirie and it was the lane that led out 00:32:16.539 --> 00:32:22.279 to Kalala and those places in those days. A lot 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:25.640 of them were named after farmers. In the early 00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:28.539 days they were, but, for example, where you live 00:32:28.539 --> 00:32:32.680 was named after a First World War and listing 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.859 from a berry. So it's changed. So you're saying, 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.559 what was that name? That was Andrew Tressidor. 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.480 And his name was spelt with one S, but they never 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.519 changed it. What do you know about Huntingdale 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.720 Park Estate for those new residents? Before, 00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:57.740 when I was growing up, it was just vacant land 00:32:57.740 --> 00:33:01.839 and the Poolsfords from Broughton Village used 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:06.819 the flat area for their cattle. Yeah, so they 00:33:06.819 --> 00:33:08.779 used to bring their cattle here from Broughton 00:33:08.779 --> 00:33:11.940 Village. So this is where they, you know, spell 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:19.440 their cattle and, yeah. Okay. I don't know anything 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.720 about Huntingdale Park. There was these subdivisions, 00:33:22.779 --> 00:33:26.119 Gerry Bailey subdivisions at Koolangatta. All 00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:30.759 right. So that was John Hay. So you've got to 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:33.460 remember that John Hay was born at Koolangatta 00:33:33.460 --> 00:33:35.859 but went back to New Zealand to live. And then 00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:39.319 when he came back over to look after the estate, 00:33:39.700 --> 00:33:44.299 he had Alex Hay as well. So that was called the 00:33:44.299 --> 00:33:46.539 Hay Estate to begin with because it was on the 00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:54.019 other side of the area and it wasn't really tenanted. 00:33:54.619 --> 00:33:57.720 As far as I can gather, it wasn't tenanted, but 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.259 he used to use the wharf there. So on Hay Road 00:34:00.259 --> 00:34:06.759 at Shulhaven Heads is a wharf and he used that 00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:09.960 wharf to get all his produce to Sydney and things 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.900 back. Then they started a reserve out there and 00:34:14.900 --> 00:34:19.420 that was in the 1930s. So it wasn't... Alexander 00:34:19.420 --> 00:34:21.639 Hay didn't sell that land for a long time. It 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:24.739 wasn't actually sold off at the same time as 00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:29.699 the tenant farmers. So that... And we really 00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:32.039 don't know where the name Gerry Bailey came from. 00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:35.679 I know the lady who wrote the book on Shoalhaven. 00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:39.420 Heads says it was named a certain way, but Alan 00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:41.280 Clark and I have never found that reference. 00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:45.019 The reason I ask are because, obviously, the 00:34:45.019 --> 00:34:52.199 maps with the land selling over those two 12 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:56.860 -month subdivisions. Yeah, they were later. In 00:34:56.860 --> 00:35:00.659 the early days, it was called Gerry Bailey by 00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:06.710 residents. In 1955... The residents of Jerry 00:35:06.710 --> 00:35:10.050 Bailey wanted the name changed to Shoalhaven 00:35:10.050 --> 00:35:14.329 Heads. So it was always known as Jerry Bailey. 00:35:15.110 --> 00:35:18.909 The same as Crooked River used to be known as 00:35:18.909 --> 00:35:25.590 Crooked River and now it's Jaroa. might look 00:35:25.590 --> 00:35:27.869 up maps all for kids, they need to understand, 00:35:27.949 --> 00:35:29.969 well, here's Gerry Bailey map, what does this 00:35:29.969 --> 00:35:32.789 mean? But it was called. The locals referenced 00:35:32.789 --> 00:35:35.530 it as Gerry Bailey. It used to be a road from 00:35:35.530 --> 00:35:39.590 Bomaderry through to Nowra, from Broughton Creek 00:35:39.590 --> 00:35:46.530 to Nowra. And it was in 1859, I think, they built 00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:49.170 a road. But it all had to go through the Berry 00:35:49.170 --> 00:35:53.920 Estate. So the burial estate had to approve of 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:58.019 giving land for the roads. And a lot of the tracks, 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:01.099 they were only tracks, only ponies used to go 00:36:01.099 --> 00:36:04.820 along them because they used to cart their produce 00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:07.900 on either side of a saddle on a horse. So they 00:36:07.900 --> 00:36:09.659 only had to have a horse. So they didn't have 00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:13.699 a big wide road until, well, they had to have 00:36:13.699 --> 00:36:16.639 carts. They brought the carts in and then it 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:22.159 wasn't really... until the motor car came into. 00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:25.920 But Strong's and the top of them, I think, were 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:31.079 the Harvey's at Jasper's Brush. They had to get 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.980 in and out. So they had to get all their produce 00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:37.539 in and out. First of all, to get it to the railway. 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:42.780 And then the trucks used to have to come in later 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:46.019 years when the milk... Milk trucks used to come 00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:47.679 to collect the milk, so they had to have the 00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:50.840 proper roads then. How hard would it have been 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.519 for those properties in the higher elevations 00:36:54.519 --> 00:37:00.000 to cart milk down? Very, very, very hard, and 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.400 I really don't understand why anyone would live 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.039 right on the top of something like that because 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:11.960 you only get the wind and then your slopes. I 00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:15.739 mean, even today... You look at some of the houses 00:37:15.739 --> 00:37:18.519 and the slope to get the car up into the garage 00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:22.340 is so big. Yeah, I just don't know how they did 00:37:22.340 --> 00:37:24.239 it. But that was the properties they wanted. 00:37:24.380 --> 00:37:26.440 And as the Strongs, the Strongs are still on 00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:30.280 that property. So it's good land. Well, the Boxalls, 00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:32.760 the Richards up there, it's not a nice drive. 00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.119 No, that's right. And even like Pestles Lane 00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.440 and all those places. Pestles Lane was one of 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:41.920 the early lanes. And they had a couple of... 00:37:43.659 --> 00:37:46.260 Bury estate cottages along there at one stage. 00:37:46.739 --> 00:37:51.739 So Pestles, Richard remembers moneylenders. The 00:37:51.739 --> 00:37:54.219 family were moneylenders. Do you know anything 00:37:54.219 --> 00:37:57.920 more about the Pestles? I started writing the 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:01.079 history of the Jasper's Brush and so I've got 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:03.340 a lot on the Pestles. But Pestles, I don't know 00:38:03.340 --> 00:38:05.639 whether Pestles was named after the family of 00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.159 Pestles or the Pestle who died in the First World 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.550 War. Actually, I can't tell you any information 00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:16.170 about that. And same as Boxall's Lane. It was 00:38:16.170 --> 00:38:18.309 Boxall's Lane after Richard Boxall, who served 00:38:18.309 --> 00:38:21.230 in the First World War. Well, they have their 00:38:21.230 --> 00:38:22.849 own story on that, don't they? Yeah, that's right, 00:38:22.969 --> 00:38:26.489 yeah. And it makes it difficult then for that 00:38:26.489 --> 00:38:28.869 next... Well, you don't know where it was named. 00:38:30.309 --> 00:38:33.150 It's a bit like... Well, Ray Strong, for example, 00:38:33.150 --> 00:38:37.199 had two of his... grandfather's brothers on council, 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.980 and he feels that's why Strong's Road might have 00:38:39.980 --> 00:38:42.079 been influenced to have been named that. It could 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.699 have been. It could have been. So where do we 00:38:45.699 --> 00:38:49.159 get to saying yes or no? Sometimes you can prove 00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.219 it. Sometimes the geographical names board. Today 00:38:52.219 --> 00:38:54.139 you've got to go through a geographical names 00:38:54.139 --> 00:38:57.840 board to get it gazetted. So a lot of the roads 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.300 had to be gazetted. So that's where you get some 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:02.940 of the names from. But other than that, it's 00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:06.900 just that in the early days where I was born, 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:10.340 just go to Mrs Holland, you'll know where she 00:39:10.340 --> 00:39:12.460 lives. They didn't have to give an address because 00:39:12.460 --> 00:39:15.059 everyone knew everyone. So if they wanted to 00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:21.699 go to Mrs Huntingdale, they'd just say, oh, down 00:39:21.699 --> 00:39:23.940 at Mrs Huntingdale. So everyone knew everybody 00:39:23.940 --> 00:39:26.820 and so they knew where they all lived. Because 00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:29.260 they weren't really structured roads with signs, 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:33.260 were they? No. So Victoria Street in Bury is 00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:36.139 a wide street because it's got the courthouse 00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:39.460 and it's got the pavilion on the showground. 00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:44.639 And so that was a bit wider. But I don't know 00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:46.980 why it was wider because it never went to the... 00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.139 There was no end to it at the end of Victoria 00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:53.300 Street. So were the police active in... Ever 00:39:53.300 --> 00:39:57.059 in those early years? Yeah, over in Pullman Street 00:39:57.059 --> 00:40:01.039 in Bury they were. Opposite Pullman Street, there's 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:04.260 still a policeman's house there, up over the 00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:07.760 bridge. And then they moved into next door to 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:12.159 the courthouse in 1895. So there was always a 00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.840 police presence, yeah. Any names come to memory? 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:20.400 A lot of names, but not at the moment. Okay. 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.719 Why did they have policing, Barry? Because they 00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:27.800 had a courthouse as well. So you've got to remember 00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:29.480 that the courthouse is where you've got your 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:33.019 birth, death and marriage registered, as well 00:40:33.019 --> 00:40:35.699 as all the other things for the land board or 00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:39.860 anything that had to do with government. And 00:40:39.860 --> 00:40:42.900 then the police station was there and you'd had 00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:49.500 a jail. Because of all the... We're still the 00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:51.940 same today. We've still got... Police stations 00:40:51.940 --> 00:40:56.239 and jails, so, yeah. But before they went off 00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:58.719 to Sydney or wherever they were taken after the 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.159 court case. How many pubs were there in Bury? 00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:05.420 And did you go to the pub or...? I used to go 00:41:05.420 --> 00:41:09.860 to the bottom pub. Alright, so the Kangaroo Inn 00:41:09.860 --> 00:41:14.219 is now called the Bury Hotel and that was there 00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:19.579 in the 1860s. That was the only pub in Bury at 00:41:19.579 --> 00:41:23.869 the time. Then we've got the top pub, what we 00:41:23.869 --> 00:41:29.710 call the top pub as well. Now, only ever the 00:41:29.710 --> 00:41:32.550 two. A lot of them were from temperance. A lot 00:41:32.550 --> 00:41:36.670 of them were in the lodges and they were mainly 00:41:36.670 --> 00:41:40.349 temperance lodges. So, yeah, so they went to 00:41:40.349 --> 00:41:45.809 church and they belonged to a lodge. Now, a lodge 00:41:45.809 --> 00:41:52.420 in those early days, like the... Used to look 00:41:52.420 --> 00:41:54.940 after widows and things, so you could get insurance 00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:57.599 through them, so you could pay a bit of money 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.159 and your family would be looked after after you 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:02.880 died. And that's why the lodges came into being 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:06.119 in those small areas. So define a lodge, what 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.420 does it mean? The Masonic Lodge was different. 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:14.059 A Masonic Lodge is different to these other lodges 00:42:14.059 --> 00:42:17.559 that they had in the early days in Bury. Were 00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:21.219 they named? Yes, the Berry Lodge was Lodge Broughton. 00:42:22.059 --> 00:42:27.519 And they used to meet in the Showground Pavilion. 00:42:28.219 --> 00:42:31.079 Now, the Showground Pavilion was designed by 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:35.119 HG Morton, and he was in a lodge. And even though 00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:38.440 the windows are all covered over now with board, 00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:42.500 in the early days, you could see the triangles 00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:45.019 from the Masonics, and all the Masonic symbols 00:42:45.019 --> 00:42:47.920 were in the windows around the pavilion. and 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:52.420 inside, and you weren't allowed to go inside 00:42:52.420 --> 00:42:56.019 that Masonic area, but then the showground now, 00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.000 you can walk in, you've got their exhibits in 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:02.679 there at the shows. But the lodges in those early 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:06.280 days were mainly temperance, and the lodges would 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:10.639 have women in them as well, so they weren't just 00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.059 like a Masonic lodge, and then the ladies' lodge, 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:17.139 they were all in together. And it was to keep 00:43:17.139 --> 00:43:21.480 them off the grog. So the temperance movement, 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:26.460 was that big in the region? Yes. And can you 00:43:26.460 --> 00:43:29.280 talk a bit about that historically? I haven't 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.559 done a lot of research on the temperance, but 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.039 it was around the same time as the women got 00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.800 the vote, 1903, the women got really involved 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:41.960 in temperance movement. I don't know how much 00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:48.409 down here. We had one lady. Her husband was a 00:43:48.409 --> 00:43:50.750 minister and she was in the Narrow Red Cross 00:43:50.750 --> 00:43:54.869 and she was a temperance. She was very big in 00:43:54.869 --> 00:43:59.730 temperance, yeah. So define temperance. What 00:43:59.730 --> 00:44:04.300 does it mean? No drinking. So when you say these 00:44:04.300 --> 00:44:07.019 people were in lodges, were they there to sort 00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:09.719 of, not always I would assume, but to dry out 00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.579 type thing? No, it was a social gathering again 00:44:12.579 --> 00:44:14.780 because they still had to have, if you didn't 00:44:14.780 --> 00:44:18.400 like sport. Ah, yes. What did you do? And you 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:20.820 weren't allowed to dance. No. If you were in 00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:22.659 the Wesleyan church, you weren't allowed to dance 00:44:22.659 --> 00:44:26.780 or have music. Yeah. I think it was just a social 00:44:26.780 --> 00:44:31.030 outlet as well. See, Red Cross wasn't around 00:44:31.030 --> 00:44:34.230 during the First World War, so what did they 00:44:34.230 --> 00:44:36.690 all do? They went on picnics. You saw a lot of 00:44:36.690 --> 00:44:39.909 picnics and farmers' picnics and all sorts of 00:44:39.909 --> 00:44:42.829 things. And remember, we didn't have electricity, 00:44:42.989 --> 00:44:45.929 so you only had to be able to go during daylight 00:44:45.929 --> 00:44:49.110 hours. You couldn't go anywhere at night because 00:44:49.110 --> 00:44:51.829 you had to take a kerosene lantern or a candle 00:44:51.829 --> 00:44:54.829 wouldn't go anywhere. And I think that they needed 00:44:54.829 --> 00:44:58.650 somewhere social, so it was a lodge. We call 00:44:58.650 --> 00:45:00.570 it a lodge now and they called it a lodge then, 00:45:00.670 --> 00:45:03.630 but I think it had the different connotations. 00:45:04.250 --> 00:45:07.590 Yeah, the Masonic Lodge is completely different 00:45:07.590 --> 00:45:13.789 to the lodges they had then. Is the foundations 00:45:13.789 --> 00:45:17.360 here sort of fairly strongly... Church of England 00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.559 in the Shoalhaven with all the original settlers. 00:45:20.619 --> 00:45:23.440 Do you remember? Because I was impressed David 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.820 Berry left land for four denominations, which 00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:31.639 I thought was progressive of him. Oh, yeah. So 00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:35.619 because my background as a child, I was raised 00:45:35.619 --> 00:45:41.480 in a Catholic parish, and I noticed that he gave 00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:44.679 land to the Catholics to start a church. Yep. 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:49.500 And other denominations around the same time. 00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:53.619 Yes, so most of his little villages had a church. 00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:00.559 So we go from... Foxground had a Wesleyan church. 00:46:00.659 --> 00:46:03.519 Broughton Village had a Wesleyan and a Church 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:12.019 of England. Berry had the four. Jasper's Brush 00:46:12.019 --> 00:46:17.019 only had the one. Maroo had one and they were 00:46:17.019 --> 00:46:19.980 called union churches. So they were different. 00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:22.099 Even though they were called Wesleyan, the two 00:46:22.099 --> 00:46:24.539 churches built by David Berry at Greenwell Point 00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:28.679 in Maroo are brick churches. They were called 00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.300 union churches so that anyone could use them. 00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:34.920 That's what that means. Well, I presume that's 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:37.099 what that means, so that they all had different 00:46:37.099 --> 00:46:39.260 ministers could go there at different times for 00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:45.480 their congregations. AI. The AI Centre. Artificial 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:51.260 insemination centre. So it was a big thing for 00:46:51.260 --> 00:46:55.139 Berry. Artificial insemination came in and they 00:46:55.139 --> 00:46:57.780 used to have people from all over the world come 00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:00.440 and look at the artificial insemination centre. 00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:05.219 My grandmother used to board people who came 00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:07.739 from overseas. So we had an Indonesian there 00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:10.840 and we've had... Other people used to stay in 00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:12.960 her... She had a room and she'd bought it and 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:17.280 rented it out to them. And they'd come and learn 00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:22.179 at the insemination centre. Yeah, but they had 00:47:22.179 --> 00:47:25.940 a big bull out the front. And as you drove into 00:47:25.940 --> 00:47:31.639 Bury from Nowra, there was a big sign, milk. 00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:36.539 But you don't see those anymore. And the Artificial 00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:39.219 Insemination Centre closed. It became a university 00:47:39.219 --> 00:47:44.360 and then became a religious venue. So I don't 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:46.360 know what it's used for now. Where was it located? 00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:51.059 On the Princess Highway at Bury. Was it a research 00:47:51.059 --> 00:47:53.739 centre sort of thing? Yeah, it would have been 00:47:53.739 --> 00:47:59.780 a research centre and they had all little buildings, 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:02.619 like little kennels for all the cows. I don't 00:48:02.619 --> 00:48:06.409 know what they called them. Pins. Yeah, pins, 00:48:06.570 --> 00:48:08.530 but they were wooden pins and the cows would 00:48:08.530 --> 00:48:11.090 be there because I suppose they had to use them 00:48:11.090 --> 00:48:13.750 for their research. The bull yards. Yeah, so 00:48:13.750 --> 00:48:19.150 that was a big thing. And I think that was brought 00:48:19.150 --> 00:48:22.170 in by McIntosh, Bruce McIntosh from Woodside 00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:25.389 Park. Yeah, I think that's where he started that. 00:48:25.550 --> 00:48:27.929 I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 00:48:27.929 --> 00:48:34.559 50s. Do you see bull yards in the landscape as 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:40.699 a young girl? No. So the AI Centre, well, can 00:48:40.699 --> 00:48:43.539 we talk about what you might know about the Illawarra 00:48:43.539 --> 00:48:46.920 Shorthorn? Air shears and Illawarra Shorthorns. 00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:50.400 Yes, very popular all the way down the coast. 00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:55.000 But they sort of, they must have AI'd, like they 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:58.519 must have sent, like those bulls must be all 00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:02.199 over the world. At that time, they must have... 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:04.260 They used to import a lot, but then they used 00:49:04.260 --> 00:49:10.300 to have... I know that Pritchard at Numba, he 00:49:10.300 --> 00:49:14.300 was one of the first to import cattle from Holland 00:49:14.300 --> 00:49:21.559 and Frisians. Station Street, Jasper's Brush. 00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:26.739 Is that now called Jasper's Brush Road? It could 00:49:26.739 --> 00:49:28.719 be, but it was the road that led to the station. 00:49:29.860 --> 00:49:33.940 There was also a wharf at Jasper's Brush. There 00:49:33.940 --> 00:49:36.420 used to be... There's a big building. There was 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:39.440 a big building at Jasper's Brush and it was the... 00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:46.340 ..part of the butter factory. It had to be close 00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:51.099 to the railway station. And that's why you had... 00:49:51.099 --> 00:49:53.199 Where you've got lights now at the railway stations, 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.960 you always had gates for the other people to 00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:59.099 cross the railway line. So you always had... 00:49:59.289 --> 00:50:02.769 families who were employed as um opening the 00:50:02.769 --> 00:50:06.269 gates at the railway crossings but now you've 00:50:06.269 --> 00:50:08.989 got lights and we've got nothing at jasper's 00:50:08.989 --> 00:50:11.570 brush now so yeah and you haven't got a railway 00:50:11.570 --> 00:50:15.469 station at omega either in omega you went into 00:50:15.469 --> 00:50:17.909 jerongong when the road in those days the road 00:50:17.909 --> 00:50:23.070 came from koyama all the way down um miller's 00:50:23.070 --> 00:50:26.590 flats turned off at omega went through jerongong 00:50:26.590 --> 00:50:30.050 itself and came out and then the road went to 00:50:30.050 --> 00:50:33.909 either Crooked River or Broughton Creek. And 00:50:33.909 --> 00:50:36.730 that all changed in the 1930s and they took the 00:50:36.730 --> 00:50:40.289 road away from Gerongong and became the Princess 00:50:40.289 --> 00:50:45.110 Highway. It was the main south coast road. So 00:50:45.110 --> 00:50:48.269 is it Jasper's Bus Brush Creek where the wharf 00:50:48.269 --> 00:50:50.630 would have been? Yeah. They had to have a wharf 00:50:50.630 --> 00:50:53.429 to get their stuff down before the railway came. 00:50:53.690 --> 00:50:57.869 Yes. So it went down. So it went down, you mean 00:50:57.869 --> 00:51:00.090 it went down the river? Yeah, so it went down 00:51:00.090 --> 00:51:01.849 to the river. So it was picked up at the river, 00:51:01.949 --> 00:51:04.750 yeah. How'd it go down the river? Got no idea. 00:51:05.309 --> 00:51:09.289 But then you look at photos and you've got, for 00:51:09.289 --> 00:51:11.489 Broughton Creek, you wouldn't think that anything 00:51:11.489 --> 00:51:14.590 could move up there now, but it does. It did 00:51:14.590 --> 00:51:16.590 in the early days. It had punts going up and 00:51:16.590 --> 00:51:20.110 down, yeah. What sort of reputation did Alexander 00:51:20.110 --> 00:51:25.300 Berry have? Through your research? Through my 00:51:25.300 --> 00:51:28.059 research, Alexander Berry wasn't down here very 00:51:28.059 --> 00:51:31.900 long. He moved up. Because him and Wilsdon Craft 00:51:31.900 --> 00:51:34.400 came down in the early days, Wilsdon Craft didn't 00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:38.000 live here. And Berry moved to Crow's Nest. He 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.199 didn't come down. And all these letters in the 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:42.539 Mitchell Library to David are telling David or 00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:44.599 John or William off for not doing the right thing 00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:48.260 here and the right thing there. So he had really 00:51:48.260 --> 00:51:52.940 nothing to do with the estate. And it was passed 00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:56.579 on. And David Berry was really the one that pushed 00:51:56.579 --> 00:51:58.920 it. But David Berry, there's no portrait anywhere 00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:03.980 of David Berry. So he must have been a very quiet... 00:52:03.980 --> 00:52:08.539 Humble. Yes, man. And he thought of his tenants. 00:52:10.059 --> 00:52:13.199 And that was that he wanted to give them something 00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:16.440 because they'd done so much for him. Yeah. I 00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.420 liked the sound of him when I've done a bit of 00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:20.900 reading on him. Yes, it's just sad that there's 00:52:20.900 --> 00:52:23.139 no photos around. But I have never found them 00:52:23.139 --> 00:52:25.119 and the Mitchell Library have looked for me too. 00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:29.639 I've got a surprise, a little Vox Pop from a 00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:33.780 fifth generation farmer. Just a quick Vox Pop 00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:39.280 with John Miller. John, how far back is your 00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:44.000 farming roots in Berry? Well, in Berry they go 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.630 back to... Well, my grandmother's people settled 00:52:48.630 --> 00:52:51.829 up in Bundiwala in the valley there at Berry 00:52:51.829 --> 00:52:55.510 Mountain in the 1850s and out of Jasper's Brush 00:52:55.510 --> 00:52:59.630 in the 1850s. But the Millers didn't move down 00:52:59.630 --> 00:53:04.269 to the Berry Saldera estate in the late 1890s, 00:53:04.269 --> 00:53:08.730 but we were in Gerringong in the 1830s. So we've 00:53:08.730 --> 00:53:12.090 been... continuously milking cows since about 00:53:12.090 --> 00:53:15.449 1832 up in Jerringong and then down the Bury. 00:53:15.730 --> 00:53:18.789 And what was your mother's maiden name? She was 00:53:18.789 --> 00:53:21.050 a Morrison. Oh, sorry, the family you're talking 00:53:21.050 --> 00:53:25.469 about. They were Chisholms, and a Chisholm married 00:53:25.469 --> 00:53:29.510 a Nylunds out of Jasper's Brush and a Hannigan 00:53:29.510 --> 00:53:33.210 down at... They went back to Hannigans down at 00:53:33.210 --> 00:53:38.260 Bolong and, yeah, fairly well established. They 00:53:38.260 --> 00:53:41.300 went back to the mosses that settled Moss Vale, 00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:45.639 so they were sort of fairly early settlers, the 00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:49.179 Morrisons. We'll have to... When I engage you 00:53:49.179 --> 00:53:51.820 later in this project, we'll draw it all up, 00:53:51.820 --> 00:53:54.139 I think, because it's always so interesting. 00:53:54.219 --> 00:53:57.280 There's so much connection, as it is with dairy 00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:00.840 farming, because in that era, you know, it's 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.719 fairly obvious social life and marriage and transport 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:06.840 all connected to marrying people that weren't 00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:09.440 too far away. We're going to be engaging you, 00:54:09.500 --> 00:54:12.480 I am, about the cooperative as well. So there's 00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:16.880 some fairly significant... for the Shoalhaven? 00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:20.039 Well, we've had a pretty strong connection with 00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:24.260 the Berry Rural Co -op for many years. My father 00:54:24.260 --> 00:54:27.599 was the director for 40 -something years and 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:32.940 then I'm still the director for 24 or 25 years. 00:54:33.119 --> 00:54:36.780 So we've had a really strong connection with 00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:39.119 the carpets, pretty close to our hearts. And, 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:41.920 yeah, we've done a lot of work to try and... 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:48.420 use the co -op as a tool to benefit farmers and 00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:53.179 their families. And I've come across names like 00:54:53.179 --> 00:54:56.760 Leslie Crawford and the Crawfords who were directors 00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:00.079 back in the mid to late 19th century as well 00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:03.420 perhaps. What can you say about the Crawfords? 00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:08.320 So Gus Miller who we had a chat to recently mentioned 00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:11.679 the Crawfords not only as amazing rodeo buck 00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:15.340 jumpers but Yeah, tell me about the Crawfords 00:55:15.340 --> 00:55:20.219 briefly. Well, they came to the area roughly 00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:24.639 when the Berry Estate got sold up and I think 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:28.260 there were five of the siblings, there were five 00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:32.179 brothers. They all got on, their father got them 00:55:32.179 --> 00:55:36.400 set up on their own farms. They were all great 00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:38.699 musicians. They all played in the Berry Band. 00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:42.360 One of the boys still, one of the sons of Les 00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:46.400 still plays, Owen. He's been in the band about 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:53.300 75 years. So it's, yeah, and everything was very 00:55:53.300 --> 00:55:56.800 community back then and the Crawfords had a great 00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:59.400 hand in whatever was happening in the community. 00:56:00.260 --> 00:56:03.119 But, yeah, there's not many of them left now, 00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:05.460 though. And here we are at the showground, of 00:56:05.460 --> 00:56:07.460 course. We can hear the cicadas and a bit of 00:56:07.460 --> 00:56:10.260 traffic. What are you currently doing here? You've 00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:12.320 been busy because we're gearing up for the Berry 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:14.780 Show in a couple of weeks. Tell me about your 00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:18.860 role. Well, I've got the privilege of being on 00:56:18.860 --> 00:56:23.840 the committee of the Berry Show Society. And 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:27.139 for the past two shows, this will be my third 00:56:27.139 --> 00:56:29.739 show that I'll be playing the role as president. 00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.500 So I'm quite excited. get another great show 00:56:34.500 --> 00:56:38.280 on the ground and, yeah, just proud to serve 00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:40.219 the rest of the committee and the show society 00:56:40.219 --> 00:56:44.519 and do whatever I can to play my part in making 00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:47.889 sure it's a success. What do you think about, 00:56:48.030 --> 00:56:50.590 you know, the first leg of it is the podcast 00:56:50.590 --> 00:56:53.769 and I'll do the best job I can, but how important 00:56:53.769 --> 00:56:57.469 is it that we try to capture in a contemporary 00:56:57.469 --> 00:57:01.889 21st century way, you know, the stories and the 00:57:01.889 --> 00:57:05.530 memorabilia and the facts of daring in the Shoalhaven? 00:57:05.869 --> 00:57:09.650 I think, look, it's vitally important. It's essential. 00:57:11.179 --> 00:57:14.059 It mightn't be important for somebody who's coming 00:57:14.059 --> 00:57:16.619 out of the city and doesn't understand what a 00:57:16.619 --> 00:57:21.659 major role dairy farming and agriculture played 00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:25.960 in the community, but it was the absolute lifeblood 00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:31.400 of the community, of the whole area at one stage, 00:57:31.420 --> 00:57:35.079 of the whole colony. There's so many great stories 00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:39.239 and characters and things that happened. It's 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:42.320 just a shame. After a couple of generations, 00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:45.960 that's gone, basically, all those stories. It's 00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:50.659 just a shame for it all to be lost. I just think 00:57:50.659 --> 00:57:56.679 it's a priority to be able to record all that 00:57:56.679 --> 00:58:01.300 history and have it there for descendants of 00:58:01.300 --> 00:58:04.880 the people. They may have moved from the area, 00:58:04.940 --> 00:58:08.820 you know, generations ago, but I know at the 00:58:08.820 --> 00:58:11.619 Berry Show we're honouring... We have a show 00:58:11.619 --> 00:58:14.960 of treasure and we're honouring one of the local 00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:18.780 vets who fled the Nazis in World War II and came 00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:23.360 out as a refugee and got himself re -qualified. 00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:27.340 One of the farmers here had influence in the 00:58:27.340 --> 00:58:30.659 political scene and helped to get those refugee 00:58:30.659 --> 00:58:35.980 vets. re -qualified and every co -op, Albion 00:58:35.980 --> 00:58:40.619 Park, Gerringong Berry now had a European vet 00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:44.760 and they were our first vets basically and before 00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:47.800 that the blacksmith was the local vet too and 00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:52.500 you know and he's got an amazing story. He's 00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:55.300 raised his family in Bury and they've all moved 00:58:55.300 --> 00:58:57.579 away but they come back every year. So it's going 00:58:57.579 --> 00:59:00.079 to be great to have them back here honouring 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:04.500 their dad and, you know, it's, yeah, that's the 00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:07.039 sort of thing we like doing and this is an extension 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.199 on that. Yeah, that's right. And because there 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:14.460 are so many important facts that the larger region 00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:20.199 and Sydney, the metropolis, the nation, internationally, 00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:24.320 Things like the Illawarra, your particular breed 00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:27.059 that was so important at that time, the Illawarra 00:59:27.059 --> 00:59:30.960 shorthorn. You've got the cooperative contribution 00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:34.360 that you were leaders. You were leaders in artificial 00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:38.320 insemination. And all of that needs to be valued 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:41.559 and honoured for future residents, really, don't 00:59:41.559 --> 00:59:45.579 they? Absolutely. And, you know, it's been the 00:59:45.579 --> 00:59:51.699 starting point of a lot of, you know, agriculture 00:59:51.699 --> 00:59:54.619 takes for granted I suppose that the you know 00:59:54.619 --> 00:59:57.159 in the present day you know it's all about technology 00:59:57.159 --> 01:00:00.000 and you know efficiencies and everything else 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.539 but the starting point of everything started 01:00:02.539 --> 01:00:05.719 pretty well here in Berry they imported the first 01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:10.260 Holsteins they developed the AIS just up the 01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:14.420 road at Kiama and the first Guernseys were imported 01:00:14.420 --> 01:00:18.820 to Berry and The first artificial insemination 01:00:18.820 --> 01:00:23.119 centre in the 50s was started at Berry and George 01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:26.320 Boris, who we were just talking about, he was 01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:30.000 ahead of his time collecting semen and storing 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:33.980 it and running it around farms and, you know, 01:00:34.019 --> 01:00:37.159 inseminating other cows. He was a pioneer and 01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:41.099 all that sort of stuff. So a lot of, you know, 01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:45.429 technologies and techniques. that are used today 01:00:45.429 --> 01:00:48.309 all around Australia, around the world, actually 01:00:48.309 --> 01:00:53.050 started in this region. So, yeah, it should be 01:00:53.050 --> 01:00:58.809 documented, I think. And, yeah. And it's people 01:00:58.809 --> 01:01:01.630 like you whose voices can talk about those people 01:01:01.630 --> 01:01:04.670 that are no longer here. So that's what's also 01:01:04.670 --> 01:01:07.710 so important. And, look, thanks for your time. 01:01:07.809 --> 01:01:09.570 We'll engage you a bit later. I look forward 01:01:09.570 --> 01:01:13.219 to the show. And, yeah. Thanks, John, for your 01:01:13.219 --> 01:01:17.019 support. Pleasure. Turf Co have supported this 01:01:17.019 --> 01:01:20.139 episode. They're our biggest agricultural employer. 01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:23.960 They've been operating for 40 years. Thank you, 01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:27.559 Gavin Rogers. Much appreciated. Episode 1 and 01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:31.260 future episodes are available to hear on my website 01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:36.139 under the podcast menu, theresesweeney .com .au. 01:01:36.860 --> 01:01:39.599 There'll also be a few photographs to view. Just 01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:42.829 follow the directions. While you're there, check 01:01:42.829 --> 01:01:46.769 out my business menu and view my services offered 01:01:46.769 --> 01:01:50.389 in digital media and paper for books, recordings 01:01:50.389 --> 01:01:53.789 and documentaries on life stories. Join me next 01:01:53.789 --> 01:01:57.849 week for episode two, The Marshalls in Pestles 01:01:57.849 --> 01:02:01.449 Lane with David Marshall. Thank you for listening. 01:02:01.650 --> 01:02:03.389 Till then, take care.