Everyone welcome back to the main mic. My name
is Harper and I'm joined with Mackenzie and today
we have a guest Today Efren is going to be talking
about his little table that we Like the little
table in the the the debate table about change
my mind Yeah So Efren Taylor is a student at
Johnson County Community College, he's rented
out the table and is in the courtyard pretty
much, what, a couple times a week, I see you?
Yeah, originally it was Wednesday, Thursday,
but I'm switching to Tuesday, Wednesdays now.
Right, and the table that you have now is I'm
okay with... There's nothing wrong with animal
cruelty. Nothing wrong with animal cruelty. All
right. That's a heated topic. It is a very, very
heated topic. It's been very fun to discuss this
with people, yeah. Very fun. Were you a debate
student previously? No, I wish I would have taken
it, because I think I would have been pretty
good at it. But no, mainly I did. I used to do
a lot of TikTok debates. And that's prepared
me well, honestly. Real world debates are actually
a lot easier than online. Yeah. All right. Well,
Kenzie, I know you kind of found him. That's
such a weird way. And they pulled me off the
street now. We fed him, gave him some clothes
and a roof over his head. I'm kidding. But she
is kind of in charge of this leading of questions
interview. I was going to say debate, but we're
not going to debate. I mean, we can debate if
we want. But I mean, I just saw the table the
beginning of the semester. And I was like, is
he rage baiting? Are you rage -vading? Um, no.
What do you mean by rage -vading? Like, you know,
people say things and they'll be like, change
my mind, and they don't actually believe in what
they're saying. They just want to make people
angry. Well, in that case, yeah, I guess we could
call it rage -vading. It's not just to make people
angry, though. So the gist of it is I have to
sign up because it gets people's attention. And
most people say that... They are vehemently against
animal cruelty. And I'll have people, they'll
sit down there, and like, I can't believe you
would say something like that. Like, we love
animals. Why would you ever want to harm an animal?
And then I'm like, do you cause any harm to animals?
And the answer is always yes, but that's different.
And people will immediately switch up on you.
So to make it clear, I'm vegan. And I've been
vegan for several years now. And I just want
people to apply. their ethical principles against
animal cruelty consistently. And that's pretty
much the point of the table. It's animal rights
outreach. Nice, okay. So what are some of the,
I guess, get -going questions that you get? The
debate starters. Yeah, like so, some people are,
I feel like they're almost self -aware of what
it's gonna be, because they'll... Say like what
do you mean by cruelty because like they're already
preempting trying to separate? The cruelty that
we do to animals like for food like abuse yeah,
yeah as opposed to someone say like beating a
dog I'm like I Don't think the animal perceives
them any differently They don't really I don't
think that if you told a cow that oh, they're
like they're doing it for food and not because
like some Weird pleasure thing that they would
like care about that they care about the pain
that they're feeling right now Right and so that
that's like a question that people will ask me
like how do you define cruelty and I usually
tell them Cruelty is gonna be like you're causing
Kind of an unnecessary harm to an animal just
like out of pleasure or convenience Right so
like hunting hunting could be one of them. Yeah
I also think that just our everyday purchases
like you go into the supermarket and or McDonald's
and you buy like a burger like There was cruelty
involved in the way that they obtained the burger,
like a cow had to die for that. Right, yeah.
And then I guess a lot of what my mind goes to
is do people ever bring up the whole, we're their
predators? Yeah, and how do you handle that?
When people bring that up, I'm just like, what
actually are they even saying? because we're
naturally meant to eat meat or something like
that, that it's okay to then be cruel to animals?
Some hypotheticals that I give people once it's
already revealed that I'm vegan. I'm like, okay,
say that you have zombies or vampires or xenomorphs
or any of these other characters where humans
are not at the top of the food chain. Clearly
the bad guys there are the people that are still
choosing to eat humans even though they could
eat something else. And so I just... Say like
if you're gonna call that situation wrong, then
you also have to call this situation wrong. We're
eating the animals right so Your stand says that
you're okay with some cruelty or not. Oh, no.
I'm not okay with animal cruelty in any way.
I just want people to Acknowledge that they are
against animal cruelty, but then Actually act
upon that with their choices regarding animal
products and try to not buy them So we shouldn't
eat animals. Eat animals and cause harm to animals,
pretty much. That's what I'm saying with the
table. Do you get the debates of, like, oh, but
what about Venus fly traps? They're alive? Venus
fly traps? Yes, oh my gosh. Aren't other animals,
like, trees speak to each other? Like, how do
you feel about eating a salad now? Yeah, that
is very common, and that's part of the reason
why I did the, that there's nothing wrong with
animal cruelty, because what I can do... I can
pretend like I'm actually okay with cruelty and
then I'll give all of the common arguments people
give against the veganism and they'll reject
them like I'll say like what about the plants
and they'll immediately reject it because that's
ridiculous plants don't feel pain they don't
have a central nervous system they don't have
pain receptors and so when I reveal that I'm
vegan they can't now go back to that as a defense
because they already rejected it so it is kind
of like a rage you want to catch them in that
act you want to be like oh like You're actually
for veganism. You don't know it. Yeah, so yeah,
I mean I feel like that's pretty Simplistic ish
yeah, I think I'm using that word correctly Correctly,
but I use that so often Correctly isn't that
that's a word. Oh, I it just sounds so wrong
It just doesn't sound like a word, and I'm just
yeah correctly corrected Correct, I don't know
I haven't used proper grammar in such a long
time. Okay. So what do people say when they agree
with you though? Like they're already vegan or
they agree that animal cruelty is good? Or that.
So when people just say that, oh I actually agree
like animal cruelty is like totally fine. Then
I just reveal that I'm vegan, and then I give
them the arguments from that side. They're already
at the point where they're kind of very bad.
There's no animal cruelty is already wrong that
I can work from. So I have to start giving a
consistency test between humans and animals.
I usually do this dialogue tree called Name the
Trait, which is getting people to Like what's
the morally relevant distinction that allows
us to? Say that it's okay to kill a cow for a
hamburger But it's not okay to kill like a random
person on the street for a hamburger right and
Typically when people try to name those differences
they fall apart very quickly upon a little bit
of introspection So I'll get people say stuff
like oh Well the reason why it's wrong to kill
humans is because humans are intelligent. I'm
like well There are some people that have a severe
mental disability into where they do fall below
the intelligence of some non -human animal. Yeah,
kill them. Some people will say that, and then
there's actually, I've just won the debate at
that point, I just end the conversation. Because
I've just shown their view to be ridiculous.
I think a lot of people at heart, once they reflect
on those reasons, they eventually will make that
decision to go vegan. No, no, that makes sense.
Are there some specific people who are okay with
some animal cruelty, and then some, they're like,
eh, that one is not okay, this one's fine? Me
personally, not vegan, but I have a huge problem
with chicken wings because you can eat so many
of them, and a lot of people don't realize, or
don't remember in the moment, chicken wings,
there's only two per chicken. Yeah. I didn't
even think about it. So like you're basically
killing so many chickens just for those two wings.
Yeah. And you can get a 12 chicken wing and you
just killed six chickens. So I'm not necessarily
against all, but I have a huge issue with chicken
wings for that specific problem. That's why I
like doing like eating chicken tenders. compared
to chicken wings, or I think boneless is also
the relevance of the chicken tender, because
I'm like, it's not a wing, so you're using the
other parts of the chicken. But I really hate
chicken wings for that one reason. That's just
random, but I feel like it's on topic. Is it
because you're against killing chickens or something?
I just think that's so wrong. Like, you're not
specific to chickens, but that you can eat what?
There's a, is it at Buffalo Wild Wings specifically,
there's like a 50 piece chicken wings that you
can get and that's 25 chickens that you've killed
just for that one meal and imagine like a party
of five getting that and that's so many. Yeah
and then like they don't finish all the wings
so then you just waste it. Like 15 chickens.
Right. Yeah. Yeah of course I'm gonna say that.
you can always kill zero chickens. But the amount
of animals that die in animal agriculture is
unfathomable. I want you guys to take a guess.
So what do you think it is? I was gonna, the
amount of animals, I do wanna say it's millions
to maybe billions. It's billions, hundreds of
billions of animals every single year. Damn.
And that's not including, if you include sea
creatures, it's trillions. It's absolutely unfathomable.
the amount of suffering that gets caused. Are
you a part of like the whole pescatarian side
where like you can eat fish or what's the one,
oh clams? Clams is like a on and off vegan like
debate of if it's vegan or not because clams
aren't as sentient as other fish or mussels I
think it is. Mussels, so fish definitely not,
definitely not vegan. Things like muscles, things
that don't have a central nervous system, but
still are part of the kingdom of animals. Those,
in my moral view, are all vegan. I wouldn't consider
a problem with that. It's pretty much... I grant
rights based on if something is sentient enough
for me to care about, and so I just... Like honey?
Yeah. Well, that's a more big... That's a bigger
one? I personally don't find anything wrong with
honey because a lot of the very harmful practices
that they did, I'm not convinced that those are
industry standard and I'm also not convinced
that bees are sentient to a degree in which we
would care much about. Aren't bees the ones that
like they did the scientific experiment you turn
off the light and they just stop flying? I'm
not sure about that. I don't know about that.
But that's what I remember and then you can like
freeze a wasp or a bee and they'll just like
go to sleep and then You'll have a like a pet
bee on a string is what I remember in middle
school. I've seen that I wouldn't recommend that
they do remember faces Yeah, no, I do know that
but if that's not sentient enough for you for
them to remember faces I mean, so do crows True.
Mm -hmm. Yeah I don't know if we will have time
enough to get into the neuroscience. But there
are strong reasons to believe that a crow is
more sentient than a bee. Oh, wonder with that.
So where people are going to draw the line is
going to be different. But at the very least,
we know that dogs are sentient enough to care
about. So certainly, the animals that we eat
on a daily basis are going to be sentient enough
to care about, like chickens and cows, pigs.
Yeah, I'm with the. I'm trying to get a club
started called Allied Scholars for Animal Protection.
That's like the head thing, but they do lots
of vegan outreach. There's one table that they
have. It's like a dog farm. So like you have
a table and it's like free dog meat and you can
engage people in that way. If people are against
dog meat, it's very, very easy to just like make
the contradiction. Like why are you drawing the
line between dogs and cows? Right, so it's more
of like what animals are more obedient to you
kind of deal like What do they call it when a?
Like animal has succumbed to the human nation
or whatever's like companion domestic domesticated
is what the word that I was looking for I just
wasn't popping into my head so like People at
the time they're like thinking about foxes and
raccoons Now they're becoming more friendly towards
humans, same with squirrels. And I know a lot
of people, oh, I used to have a neighbor who
had that little steamer or a smoker in the back,
and he would catch squirrels and grill them there.
It's disgusting. No, I always thought that was
wrong, because I was like, what the fuck are
they? Don't bleep it. What the heck are they
doing to you? Like, duh. Well, there you go.
Squirrels aren't that bad. They're not that bad.
So all I would ask is to just think, what did
the cow do? What did the pig do? What did the
chicken do? I also, oh, another personal preference.
I'm kind of against pig meat. I hate that they,
like, they don't have sweat glands. They're so
gross. They're disgusting. They're cute, cute
animals, but. The pig industry is like the worst.
I used to have a pet pig when I was younger.
We couldn't keep them because there's actually
laws on the books that prevent you from keeping
quote unquote farm animals. On land. Unless you
have a certain amount of land. Like you just
can't keep them as pet, which I think is ridiculous.
But yeah, so pigs, what they do in the pig industry
is. is the way that they kill them is they will
put them into a CO2 gas chamber with high amounts
of concentrations of CO2, which will burn their
lungs and their eyes, and they'll suffocate.
And then after that, they'll do pretty other
violent things that I don't know if I can say
on here. But you can go look into it for yourself.
A lot of people don't know the things that they
do to animals. Yeah, no. I'm just like, I can't.
I mean I feel like I'd be more okay with it like
the animals that grow old live a nice happy life
And then you know either die naturally or have
to be like shot to put down or like so you can
preserve the meats I feel like that's way more
on my like okay morals, and I also think that
to an extent some Have specific opinions about
chicken wings. I hate only eating chicken wings
love them hate them though. I would hope that
I personally wouldn't have a problem if that
was What the industry was like where it's like
putting down a dog to where like you let them
live out their life I wouldn't I wouldn't find
anything wrong with that unfortunately though
That a lot of people have told me that And that
type of meat does not exist. It's like not on
the market because it takes thousands of dollars
to raise a cow or a chicken. You would not be
able to profit off of that. And so that meat
doesn't exist. I think the solution to people's
cognitive dissonance on this issue is to just
abstain from animal products. It's possible.
There are lots of vegans where around. Yeah.
And then I know you had some questions to like,
I don't know. You got all of them. Really? Yes.
Oh, I apologize. No, you're good. I'm just listening.
I mean, only other thing would be like, how long
have you been vegan? I want to say for at least
three years, but I kind of lost count at this
point. I was I went vegetarian and like middle
school, but I didn't like. But that was more
of a, I thought it would be healthier. But vegan,
I was probably hit with that ethical argument
probably right before college. And I think that's
when I went hardcore vegan. No animal products.
Right, right. And then for the students of Johnson
County, you said that you may be starting a club.
Do you want to speak more about getting that
started and how other people can... can be drawn
to that club. So once we get the club called
Allied Scholars for Animal Protection, we'll
have posters up where you can scan a QR code
and you can put in your information if you want
to do outreach with us or if you feel like you
need help. A lot of people, this is the real
thing, there's this mental block because they
think it will be really, really difficult to
be vegan. It's not, but they just don't know.
what to do or where to go to get information.
And so the idea of the club is going to provide
information like that. If you want to go vegan,
I will personally handhold you through that entire
process. It's not as difficult as people think.
Just take a multivitamin and get your basic nutrients
in. Yeah, and then what are some meat alternatives
that you... Because I know people know the basics
like tofu. And then there's Beyond Burger. That's
it, Beyond Burger. For meat substitutes specifically,
you want to make it super cheap. There's this,
there's this, it's called seitan. It's called
a hail Satan, but like it's seitan, S -E -I -T
-A -N. And it's a meat substitute. You make it
out of like a vital wheat gluten and has so much
protein in it. It's like for very, very cheap.
And you can make it at home and that's the cheapest
way to do it. There's also tofu. Beyond Meat,
if you are into that sort of thing. I personally
don't do Beyond Meat, because it's a little bit
expensive for me, and I like to live cheaply.
But yeah, there's tons of vegan options, especially
in today's day and age. Like, I know some older
vegans who were vegan before, like Beyond Meat
even existed. And I'm like, they see that we
have it easy with how many options we have. You
can go out to lots of restaurants now, and they
just will have like a Beyond Burger. Yeah, like
a vegan option or a substitute of some sort.
Yeah, that's not a salad or a bean burger. They'll
have more than that. I forgot about black bean
burgers. We had one in high school, and that's
like the only one I've ever remembered. They
served it to you, like in the cafeteria? Yeah,
we had a pretty good cafeteria at Blue Valley
North. Right, you were in Blue Valley. Yeah,
we were. Sorry, guys. No, we had a really good,
I miss our cafeteria. There's like two lines
that you can walk across. There's this one side
that had hot dogs, hamburger, cheeseburger, black
bean burger, and then a chicken sandwich, and
then a spicy chicken sandwich. And they would
have those wrapped up and everything. And then
next to it, there was pizzas. So in the middle,
we had a Pizza Hut sponsorship. So we would have
Pizza Hut pizza, just like Johnson County has
down there. But we'd get a new shipment every
day of Pizza Hut pizzas. And I'm pretty sure
they might have been frozen, and we just throw
them in the oven. But we had those. And then
there was a whole other section on this side,
and I'm pretty sure it was just the breakfast
of cereals and... granolas, yogurts, et cetera.
And in the middle we had a salad bar. And then
on the right side there was like this milk section,
milk and juice. On the other side there was desserts.
Desserts? We had like cookies and muffins, I'm
pretty sure. Okay. And then... I'm like... Everything.
Yeah. Sounds like it. We had apples, bananas,
oranges, and then chips whenever we would walk
in. Then Rice Krispie treats were also won. They
hand -made Rice Krispie treats or something because
they were in bags. And then there was also the
Rice Krispie treats from Rice Krispie. Right.
We just had the Rice Krispie ones. I never got
them because I don't like Rice Krispies. Had
those you have to side with your juice and your
milk and it was just orange juice apple juice
and chocolate milk and regular milk. Yeah strawberry
milk probably but That and then you had the other
section where all like the main food is so they
had like the mandarin oranges there and like
the salad and whatever else they're serving for
the day and they had like the spicy chicken sandwiches
wrapped up before but Yeah, we had muffins. Yeah,
like right next to it too. There was like Choice
of sides like the burgers. There was like a french
fry or like something else. Yeah, what was it
like? Sometimes we'd have like Bosco sticks and
stuff like that And then there was like the ones
that I really like crave every now and then are
the They're like chicken tender kind of things
But we had a lot I'm due to a Blue Valley North
visit and If you want to come by you're more
than welcome to I still remember my old lunch
code I'll just use my brothers, but I remember
mine No, I'm just gonna go in and be like hey,
I'm gonna take this this and this My brother's
name is this or I'll just have the SROs or I'll
just pay with cash Because they allow cash payments,
but I do kind of miss Bosco sticks, dude I'm
craving a high school lunch right now Like that
sounds so good. We have like two different kinds
of Bosco sticks so there was like the regular
ones that look like breadsticks and then there's
ones that are like They look like cheesy bread.
Yeah, I think that's the one I'm thinking of
And they were just like, they're flat and you
just kind of pull them apart. They're so good
and so cheap. I like cheese a lot, even though
I'm lactose intolerant. You're not a baby cow,
it's okay. It'd be the most lactose intolerant
people that'd be eating the most amount of cheese.
Yes it is. Besides that we have lactose intolerant
people. gluten -free people that also just eat
a bunch of gluten whenever they get home. Just
like, you know, I'm home. I don't have to deal
with people. It'll just hurt my stomach. Yeah,
yeah. I can deal with the consequences later.
I'm already home. For vegan options of candy,
I know it's pretty limited, because there's,
what is it, gelatin that has bone in it? Yeah,
so. There are a lot of candies that use gelatin,
but a lot of the candies that you'll see they
use gelatin But they use a plant alternative
which is called gelatin pectin And a lot of candies
use that so you can just they're just a lot of
vegan alternatives Really so it's called gelatin
pectin yeah, and is there ever like Like a plant
on the thing or anything to it's I mean Typically
you just have to look at the back it depends
on the company like some companies will advertise
that it's a vegan product some companies will
Not state it something that a lot of people don't
know is vegan is like Oreos Jolly Ranchers are
probably I mean, it's it's just sugar. Yeah They
have there's like a vegan alternative for everything
now like in stores like there's Oat milk ice
cream, there's almond milk ice cream. Anything
you can imagine is probably there. I drink oat
milk. It's really good. I do like oat milk. It's
creamier, in my opinion. Yeah. But have you listened
to our past podcast episodes? I have not yet,
no. No? So do you want to ask the question? The
question? Wait. You don't remember it, or do
you need me to? If you were shrunk to the size
of a pencil, right? and put into a blender. How
would you get out? How would I get out? Okay.
I'm struck to the size instead of a pencil. Yes.
So you're just like, you're shrunk maybe like
five inches tall and you're put into a blender.
How do you get out of the blender? How big is
the blender? Normal blender size. It's not like
anything fancy like a ninja. Just like your average
blender. I mean if you're strong enough you could
like go back and forth try to knock the blender
over You have those blades though, in the middle
Is it on? No, but If you, if the pencil is small
enough, or me if I'm small enough you can like
You can like bend yourself up against the wall
and then push up like with your legs and then
like inch up the way That's probably the only
way. I don't think you're not jumping out. That's
probably not. I'd assume, I mean, in case that's
one of the options, then that is a possibility,
but I don't think that if I was that small, I'd
be able to jump that high. All right, so the
past interviewee that we had, our guest, per
se. He said that he would use his claimy hands
to stick on the side and jump out. And so you're
saying that you'll run and try to knock the blender
over to get out. All right. I actually kinda
like that. Top two answers, because there are
only two answers. But yeah, we wanted to thank
you for being on the podcast. Of course. It's
been a pleasure learning about veganism. Well,
not being innocent, but dying innocent. Zach's
looking at me like, wrap this up right now. Huh?
Oh, I said a bad word. My bad, guys. Anyways,
thank you for joining us, and thank you for finding
him off the side of the road. It was so kind
of you. to give them shelter and food in this
tough economy. Yeah, I took them from in front
of the library. Yeah, no. So yeah, that's typically
where you can find me, in front of the library.
When we get our club, you may find me in the
lunch room. We'll do stuff there, where people
are eating their food. Right, and you just call
them out as, witch! Yes, exactly. Just whenever
they walk. Well, that's like what popped in my
head. Why? Like murder for like eating meat.
Okay. It's like where my head went, but I don't
know if we can say that so which That's also
something we do frequently. I don't know why
you're laughing at me We should be with you.
Oh, we totally could yeah, and then he's just
gonna be Luffy from one piece. Yep He has the
accent you're right you already got the tattoo
You need a webcam. Hold on, hold on. I do want
to get one more thing before we go. This is going
to be for our media team. I'll do it this way
for her. Would flash be better? Who knows? BTS
moment. No. I'm going to do flash, and then I'm
going to... There we go. No, this looks... Awful
with flash. Let me do one without Already It
has like lines. Oops. Alrighty Anyways Thank
you guys so much for joining us on this week's
episode of main mic If you haven't already checked
out our video on our YouTube channel Please do
because we're working so hard to get this up
every week just because it is quite irritating
to try and set specific things up right now and
figure out lighting. We didn't realize how difficult
a video podcast would be until we actually did
it. But we want to thank Zach. Israel worked
on it a little bit and we also had Shayna. Thank
you for giving me her name because I just met
her today. All three of them including Mike for
buying us new equipment. I want to thank all
you guys for allowing us to be on video. But
that's all that we have for this week. Hopefully
our past episodes have kept you up to date until
November 4th, which is pretty much all of the
fall activities. And next week we will be back
to news and we'll also have some short clips
either with our school's SRO or our very own
Jen talking about the government shutdown. But
other than that, thank you guys so much for joining
us. See you next week. Bye!