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My friend, he just actually just messaged me just now.

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He was just like, that's the best player that never played in the NBA.

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And I was just like, for real, like.

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Eric, the undersized and underappreciated overseas superstar.

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Again, what's up, man? Good to meet you.

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You were one of the well, Brandon Jennings, too.

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But you were one of the few people that transitioned from college

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into overseas professional basketball.

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So I want to talk about what that process was like for you to transition

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into something like that.

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Did you have to have an agent?

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How did you get in contact?

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What was at first that step for you?

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Yeah, it was tough because I didn't even know where to begin.

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All I knew was that if I just try to dominate

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and I went to a small school, any high school division, too.

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So I just thought if I dominate, maybe they'll find me.

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You know, if not, worst case scenario, I got a degree from a good school.

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I'll go use this business degree and work my way up the corporate ladder.

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And so I just season ended.

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We lost and it was a the conference tournament and

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crazy, the team that we end up losing to, we lost in double overtime.

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I think they end up winning the national championship that year.

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But we lost to them.

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I think I had like 40 something, maybe like 42.

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I don't know my last game.

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And I don't know what to do.

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The season ends and I'm just like, you're a little bit depressed.

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You know, you pour so much into the game.

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It's been two days, three days, four days, five days.

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I haven't heard nothing.

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I don't know what to do.

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I asked my coaches and then like the seventh day,

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my coaches start getting calls and emails from agents

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asking if they can get my information, they can reach out.

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And so it took seven days and I'm just like, all right, OK, maybe there's a chance.

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OK, the dream is still alive.

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Like, I don't got to do a nine to five yet.

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OK. And so then you start they start calling.

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And I'm trying to feel my way.

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I don't really know a lot, but I talked to some guys who played overseas.

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I'm reaching out to them on Facebook because I was so old

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that that was the main means of communication outside of a phone

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when I was in college.

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But I'm reaching out and they're giving me like ideas of questions

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I should ask, what I should be looking for.

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And so, you know, I'm just asking the typical questions.

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Have you seen me play?

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Like I'm in this little school, Northern Indiana.

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Like, have you seen me play?

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Number two, if you have some we play,

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what countries do you think my style fits?

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You know, where do you see me as?

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What's my starting salary range?

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I know you can't pinpoint an exact number, but a guy of my profile, my type of game.

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Where do you see me potentially starting?

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If you do have guys like me,

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where do you normally place them?

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Have you placed any other division to any other guys who were non-division one players?

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Have you placed them overseas?

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Like, these are valid questions because that tells me you have the experience

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to get guys to where they need to go.

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So after asking these questions, having these talk downs with all these agents,

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basically all through the phone,

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because at that point, I'm not really viable enough to come visit,

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but I'm viable enough to call.

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Like, and I understood that, like, you know, my ego was not bruised.

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You know, I went to a small college, you know, D1's and offered me

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like at that point, like it is what it is.

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Like, and after I broke down who I wanted as my agents,

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and he literally found me because I made SportsCenter top 10 highlights.

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I think I was like number two or three player, I like jumped over dude,

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got a steal, jumped over a guy, dunked it in one.

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And then he, he seen my last name and he actually graduated from Bucknell.

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And my brother at the time was a freshman at Lehigh.

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And so he's like McCullum and he looks up and then he says, I looked you up online.

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He's, I'd never seen you play in person.

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But after you did that, dunk, I'm like, McCullum, let me check out his brother.

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And he said, your film was unbelievable.

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Like just the moves, the shots, your statistics was crazy.

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I think I averaged maybe 26 a game or something and maybe seven, eight rebounds.

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But he was just saying like the things I was doing, my athleticism,

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like I was a division one caliber player.

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So, you know, he took me on, you know, I went with him.

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I liked him. He was honest.

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He told me everything.

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He thought about me.

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And at that point, school was good, but the teams couldn't differentiate.

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What's the difference between a guy who scores 26 points a game at an NAIA D2 compared to,

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let's say, a guy at a mid-major who averages 12, 13.

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Like a lot of teams overseas, they couldn't differentiate.

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Like my level I was playing at, the type of competition, like does my stuff translate?

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So during this time, there was like a popular camp in Vegas.

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So my agent flew me out there, got me a hotel.

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And was like, look, this is an exposure camp.

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It's during NBA Summer League, too.

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But the camp is during the day.

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NBA Summer League is in the late afternoon and evening.

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So all the scouts are going to come here.

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They're going to watch and then they'll go eat lunch, whatever.

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And then they'll go to NBA Summer League.

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So he flew me out there and he was like, look, you need to dunk everything in one.

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Crazy. He was like, every dunk you got.

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So I'm in there 360 in windmill reverse.

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And I was like really bouncy.

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I still can jump a little bit.

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But when I was young, I was really bouncy.

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And he's like, so when you're doing that, I'm going to be working the sideline and I'm

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going to be talking to each guy.

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Yeah, you see my guy right there, number three.

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That's my guy.

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So now they see me getting freaking warmups and they're like, oh, OK.

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Because everybody loves an athlete.

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And then the games start and this is where I shine.

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I'm skilled.

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I can shoot.

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I can play off the bounce.

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I play peek and roll.

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I'm good in the ISO.

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And I just was dominating.

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It's one of those camps where everybody play equal minutes and you sub and platoon five

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into five like you're Kentucky.

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And I'm in there and I'm leading.

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I'm the only non-division one player.

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And I'm like the leading scorer at the camp.

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I'm playing 20 minutes.

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I'm 25, 20 minutes, 20 points.

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Like it's just boom, buckets, buckets.

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And I'm there with a different mindset.

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Like, yo, I ain't going out.

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I'm not casino.

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I'm not gambling.

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I'm not drinking.

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I'm here to kill.

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And that's it.

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And from there, he literally took all the clips of the games.

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And so for any teams who couldn't differentiate my level of play, he was highlighting guys.

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Boom.

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Four year starter or three year starter, North Texas.

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Boom.

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Mac.

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Boom.

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And they getting highlighted and they getting cooked.

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And it's just me just going to work.

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And it's just, and then after that, that's when I started to get a few offers and we

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settled in on Israel.

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And that's kind of how it all started.

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It was a crazy journey, but it's constantly proving yourself.

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And once you finally solidify yourself and you show what you can do, then you get the

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job and you got to prove yourself all over again.

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So I'm just thankful I got that opportunity.

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And I had someone like my agent who believed in me.

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I've been with him for 14 years.

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Shout out to Andrew Morrison, CAA.

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If I remember correctly, there was a quote you had on another podcast where you're saying

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that there's a Israeli rule where two Israeli players have to be on the court at the same

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time.

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Right.

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And I think you guys had maybe five or six other foreign players.

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What was your mindset like?

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Cause obviously you're getting less minutes with that role in place.

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What was your mindset like that first year where you're still trying to prove yourself

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or trying to get that ground, but you can't necessarily get in the game and dominate because

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of a rule like that.

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So I was just thinking like, how can I help the team?

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And I'm looking around and I'm thinking, what can I do that these other five foreigners

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can't do?

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And I'm like, all right, I'm younger.

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I'm athletic.

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I got to pressure the ball.

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So I'm full court pressing.

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I need to get on this court.

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If I need to be Patrick Beverly, you know, just what I'm going to do.

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I'm full court pressing.

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I'm like, all right, I have to make positive plays.

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Anytime I come on the court, I can't turn over.

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I have to hit open shots.

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I have to run the offense because this is a time when you got to remember 14 years ago,

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they did not like scoring point guards.

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This is when Steve Nash was winning MVP.

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This is before Steph Curry.

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This is before Derek Rose.

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They wanted their point guard strictly to be set up in Europe and in the NBA.

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And that was pass first.

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And so I had to like adapt my whole game.

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And I'm winning like, man, I almost scored like 3000 points in college and you going

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to sign me to pass?

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Like, like, like that's what you're doing.

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Pass and play defense the same.

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Yeah, I'm like, what is going on?

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And they like, yeah, we've seen you as all defensive team in college.

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And I'm like, I'm all right.

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So I literally had to be a player that I wasn't really comfortable with.

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And that kind of got me, you know, more focused because now I have to pay attention to detail.

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I have to do all these little things.

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I'm back to a role player and, you know, I'm an intangible guy, but I have like a big offensive

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talent and you see it with a lot of young rookies in the league.

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You'll see them come in.

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You'll be like, man, they can really fill it up, but that's not what that team need.

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And so every now and then I would get to showcase it.

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Let's say the game got out of hand, things went bad or guys are struggling and then the

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coach would be like, high ball screen, Eric, go.

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And then I'd be like, oh yes, this is my chance.

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And it wasn't often, it was like maybe like once every like 10 games, like just things

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ain't working, guys are in trouble.

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But you know, when he did call my name, I was able to show, I wish I could have got

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more opportunities.

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But I understand that like in life things happen.

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I think if they would have played me what I deserve, because I worked hard, I did everything,

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I dominated in practice, I did my job, but I was the youngest.

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I was the lowest paid and there's six foreigners, only three of us can be on the court.

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So when you explain the management, you bring in this rookie, he's supposed to be a project.

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He's coming from a small school, but he just as good or better than those guys in his positions.

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But they making four, five X his salary, how you explain that.

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So I understood as I got older at that time, I didn't, I was really frustrated, but I had

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a good vet.

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They told me just to stay focused, keep a good attitude.

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They was like, you're going to be a great player.

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You just got to wait your time.

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And I'm like, man, I ain't trying to wait.

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I want it now.

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But I had to wait and it humbled me.

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It humbled me and it made me really dig deep to see how much I love this because you work,

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you grind, you pour so much into the game and it feels like you get nothing in return.

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And it's like every day.

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And am I still going to come lift?

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Am I still going to come shoot?

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I know I ain't about to play much.

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I'm about to play five minutes.

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I don't need to work out for five minutes and you can't allow your mindset to go there.

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And luckily I stayed working.

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I had my brother, my parents pushing me along the way, telling me to keep going.

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And I had great vets, Romeo Travis, Elton Brown.

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They was just there for me and helping lift me up when I needed it most.

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And I think that changed everything.

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And even Joe Smith was helping me a lot as well.

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When you put pressure on yourself, like you got to change your game to make sure you're

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on the court or you got to do this to stay noticed.

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Is that something that motivates you and push you forward?

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Yeah, it was stressful.

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Pressure can be beneficial because it's going to make you work harder.

242
00:11:11,260 --> 00:11:12,660
It's going to make you spend extra time.

243
00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:14,660
It's going to always keep you on alert.

244
00:11:14,660 --> 00:11:16,820
I compare it to an animal, right?

245
00:11:16,820 --> 00:11:17,820
I'm hungry.

246
00:11:17,820 --> 00:11:18,820
I'm starving.

247
00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:19,820
I'm not full.

248
00:11:19,820 --> 00:11:21,220
I'm always looking for my next meal.

249
00:11:21,220 --> 00:11:22,700
So it's like, I'm always on go.

250
00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:23,700
In practice, I'm in go.

251
00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:26,460
In the game, I'm in go because it's like I always got something to prove.

252
00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:29,660
But when you don't have pressure, sometimes you can get a little relaxed.

253
00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:31,200
You can get a little timid.

254
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,860
You can kind of rest on your morals and all the stuff that you've done in the past.

255
00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:37,860
I didn't want to do that.

256
00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:43,660
And I think what kind of set the tone is on my first contract, there was a 30 day period

257
00:11:43,660 --> 00:11:45,980
where they could get out the contract or I could.

258
00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:50,180
So that first month, it was kind of like my contract was fully guaranteed after that 30

259
00:11:50,180 --> 00:11:51,180
days.

260
00:11:51,180 --> 00:11:52,660
So I don't stress.

261
00:11:52,660 --> 00:11:54,060
I'm like, man.

262
00:11:54,060 --> 00:11:55,980
Every day I got to treat it like a game.

263
00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:58,020
So that's kind of how I started my career.

264
00:11:58,020 --> 00:12:03,060
My first year, my second year, I had a 14 day period because this is like what I had

265
00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:04,540
to do coming from a small college.

266
00:12:04,540 --> 00:12:09,820
Like I'm the only guy in the first division in Israel who didn't play D1.

267
00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:11,740
So I'm trying to show my way.

268
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:13,020
And so my agent was so confident.

269
00:12:13,020 --> 00:12:14,980
He like, all right, bet.

270
00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:16,740
Y'all don't know if he can play here, but y'all like him.

271
00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:17,740
Y'all like his film.

272
00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:18,740
Y'all want to offer him.

273
00:12:18,740 --> 00:12:19,740
I'm going to give y'all some security.

274
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:22,660
I'm going to pay for his own flight there.

275
00:12:22,660 --> 00:12:25,420
And y'all can have that 30 day window, your trial period.

276
00:12:25,420 --> 00:12:32,340
And then once y'all keep him after this 30 days, send me my money back for his flight.

277
00:12:32,340 --> 00:12:33,940
And that's how it went.

278
00:12:33,940 --> 00:12:37,660
They sent the money back and my contract became fully guaranteed.

279
00:12:37,660 --> 00:12:39,540
And I said, I just say like, I was stressed.

280
00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:43,820
Like, you know, I felt like every day I was getting critiqued every day.

281
00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:45,500
I was getting graded and I had to bring it.

282
00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:50,460
And I was just, it was a relief when I got past, when I got to day 31, you know, they

283
00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:54,420
could have, they made me wait to day 28, you know, before they like, all right, I'm like,

284
00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:58,500
y'all could have did this like two weeks in, but I think they wanted to see what I was

285
00:12:58,500 --> 00:12:59,500
made of.

286
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:01,500
And now it's different.

287
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:02,980
Like it's a different stress.

288
00:13:02,980 --> 00:13:04,540
Like I was trying to prove my career.

289
00:13:04,540 --> 00:13:06,700
I was trying to make a name for myself.

290
00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:09,500
I was trying to make basketball a way of life for me.

291
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,460
And I was trying to change my life.

292
00:13:11,460 --> 00:13:12,740
And you know, I wasn't married.

293
00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:15,100
I didn't have kids at the time, but I wanted that in the future.

294
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:16,500
And I want to be able to change their life.

295
00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:20,020
Now the stress is just maintaining.

296
00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:21,780
I just want to continue to play at a high level.

297
00:13:21,780 --> 00:13:27,140
I want to continue to, you know, live up to my name, you know, represent my organization

298
00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:29,020
well, my family, like all those types of things.

299
00:13:29,020 --> 00:13:32,900
I won't, you know, I don't want you to come into court and be like, yeah, E, oh, no, I

300
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:36,140
want you to be like, dang, like E will cook you still.

301
00:13:36,140 --> 00:13:37,700
Like there ain't no question to it.

302
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,020
So it's different.

303
00:13:39,020 --> 00:13:42,820
Like once I'm fighting for survival for my life, obviously I have a degree, you know,

304
00:13:42,820 --> 00:13:46,220
I can go get a good job into a great, you know, academic institution.

305
00:13:46,220 --> 00:13:47,540
I'll be fine.

306
00:13:47,540 --> 00:13:51,500
But for me, I'm fine for my survival because I wanted basketball to be my way of living.

307
00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:55,700
And then now I'm already set, you know, I already managed everything.

308
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:56,700
I have my passive income.

309
00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:57,700
I have all these things.

310
00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:02,500
So now it's just about your legacy and continue to play.

311
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:05,220
I want to be done with the game before it's done with me.

312
00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:06,360
If that makes sense.

313
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,720
When you take on endeavors like this, where your agent is paying for flights and he believes

314
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,180
in you strongly to where financially money's coming out of his pocket, right?

315
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:18,100
Which is a huge thing for anyone to do for anybody.

316
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:22,940
You take on that aspect and then you factor that in with the fact that you're the only

317
00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:27,540
D2 player amongst D1 players playing overseas professionally.

318
00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:32,940
At what point in time, if any, did you have the feeling like, damn, maybe I'm not supposed

319
00:14:32,940 --> 00:14:33,940
to be here.

320
00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:34,940
Did that ever run through your mind?

321
00:14:34,940 --> 00:14:35,940
Oh yeah.

322
00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:36,940
Yeah.

323
00:14:36,940 --> 00:14:37,940
A lot of guys gonna lie.

324
00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:39,940
They not gonna keep it a hundred.

325
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:42,820
Like I was sitting there and I felt overwhelmed.

326
00:14:42,820 --> 00:14:43,820
I'm like, dang.

327
00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:49,860
So I'm like at the time I'm watching and there's a team called Maccabi Tel Aviv and I don't

328
00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:53,420
really understand the Eurolead or this type of things, but like you start to hear like

329
00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:54,420
history and I'm watching.

330
00:14:54,420 --> 00:14:57,380
I'm like, dang, they got Jeremy Pargo.

331
00:14:57,380 --> 00:14:59,020
I was watching him at Guessing Saga.

332
00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:00,020
He is a dog.

333
00:15:00,020 --> 00:15:01,700
I'm like, man.

334
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:05,420
And then I'm seeing like other guys throughout the lead.

335
00:15:05,420 --> 00:15:11,020
I think I'm, Hercelia had a guy named Lee Nailon played in the NBA a long time.

336
00:15:11,020 --> 00:15:12,020
I'm a basketball guy.

337
00:15:12,020 --> 00:15:13,020
I'm a basketball junkie.

338
00:15:13,020 --> 00:15:14,020
You who leave they arm was.

339
00:15:14,020 --> 00:15:16,060
I was like, he was getting buckets for the Hornets.

340
00:15:16,060 --> 00:15:20,420
Like I'm just looking at like, and this is just to name a couple of guys that I remember

341
00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:21,420
from 14 years ago.

342
00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:24,140
This is how, you know, like I felt this way because I still remember that.

343
00:15:24,140 --> 00:15:27,380
And I'm like, man, like I come from Goshen.

344
00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:29,700
I'm like, man, my in over my head.

345
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:30,700
Am I ready for this?

346
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:35,460
Like, like, you know, I need to take, you know, a different lower level and work my

347
00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:36,460
way up.

348
00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:38,340
And I'm like, all right, we about to see a sink or swim.

349
00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:42,220
And so I'm kind of like going into those games, trying to figure stuff out and you're playing

350
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:47,260
against guys who played at major conferences, you know, ACC, ACC, you know, one of my good

351
00:15:47,260 --> 00:15:51,020
friends, Raymar Morgan from Michigan state.

352
00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:52,540
He was a rookie there too.

353
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:53,940
And so we had two different trajectories.

354
00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:54,940
He's from my city.

355
00:15:54,940 --> 00:15:56,960
So I'm just like, man, this is different.

356
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,380
But I kind of like got my feet wet.

357
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:06,220
One of the point guards got hurt in the preseason and I was able to kind of like get more minutes,

358
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:08,060
get acclimated and I really built my confidence.

359
00:16:08,060 --> 00:16:11,740
I had a great preseason and I'm thinking about, okay, it's up.

360
00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:14,740
You know, of course, when the guy comes back from injury, the season starts, you know,

361
00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:15,740
you're back to the bench.

362
00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:19,140
But you know, I kind of built my confidence through that preseason.

363
00:16:19,140 --> 00:16:22,460
And that's where I felt like, okay, I'm not just as good as these guys.

364
00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:26,020
Like I can, you know, outperform some of them on the night.

365
00:16:26,020 --> 00:16:27,620
You know, some nights they might get the best of you.

366
00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:30,420
Like this is basketball that you can be better or worse than somebody.

367
00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:33,380
But you know, if you don't come in focused and ready or you underestimate, like, and

368
00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:37,780
I was catching guys sleeping, you know, you see a skinny frame, you see a guy who you

369
00:16:37,780 --> 00:16:39,660
don't really know on a rookie.

370
00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:42,020
Like I know I was catching guys sleeping because they was relaxed.

371
00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:45,580
And you know, when the vets in the preseason, some guys be chilling, like, no, I'm going

372
00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:46,580
to go.

373
00:16:46,580 --> 00:16:47,580
I'm trying to make a name.

374
00:16:47,580 --> 00:16:50,460
Like, I got 30 days to get this contract fully guaranteed.

375
00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:54,420
Like there's so many things that they didn't even know that they probably like, why he

376
00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:55,420
guarded me so hard?

377
00:16:55,420 --> 00:16:57,420
Why he like, nah, like this is my life.

378
00:16:57,420 --> 00:17:02,780
Somebody told us that the rook is preseason.

379
00:17:02,780 --> 00:17:05,340
I'm like, I don't know what that means to me.

380
00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:06,740
This is a contract.

381
00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:11,540
I'll be on a plane home and if I get home, it's going to be because I did everything

382
00:17:11,540 --> 00:17:12,540
I was supposed to do.

383
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,540
I can look at myself with my head up.

384
00:17:13,540 --> 00:17:17,940
I'm not about to go home knowing I gave half ass effort or I ain't put, you know, everything

385
00:17:17,940 --> 00:17:18,940
I had into the game.

386
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:24,200
I was telling Darion, like scoring 82 points in any facet of the game, I don't care what

387
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,580
level you're at, it's crazy.

388
00:17:25,580 --> 00:17:29,700
Would you say that was like the biggest turning point in your career where it came to like,

389
00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:32,740
everybody knew like, yo, Eric needs a contract.

390
00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:39,020
Yeah, I think like the year before that, I started getting like a lot of NBA interest,

391
00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:41,860
a lot of workouts, a lot of stuff like that.

392
00:17:41,860 --> 00:17:47,740
And, you know, I ended up ultimately, I didn't have a great experience at Summer League and

393
00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:50,060
I chose the wrong team and it happens.

394
00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:53,340
It's life, but you know, I still got a great deal out of China.

395
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:58,660
I was so mad, but Summer League that I was going to leave in the middle of it, but my

396
00:17:58,660 --> 00:17:59,660
agent taught me this day.

397
00:17:59,660 --> 00:18:03,300
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

398
00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:05,620
You ain't going to speed past that.

399
00:18:05,620 --> 00:18:08,780
Why were you so mad at Summer League?

400
00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:13,780
Because when I was asked, before I committed to the team, I had, because back then there

401
00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:15,240
was like two Summer Leagues, right?

402
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,380
So there was Orlando and then there was Vegas.

403
00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:23,740
And so I was going to go play with the Rockets in Orlando, but I had already committed to

404
00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:25,280
Denver and Vegas.

405
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:31,540
And so Denver was like, all right, we want you to come to this training camp.

406
00:18:31,540 --> 00:18:33,380
You're going to play at least 20 minutes a game.

407
00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:34,840
We're going to have a training camp before.

408
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,380
So we don't want you to go to Orlando to play with the Rockets.

409
00:18:37,380 --> 00:18:40,260
And I already worked out with the Rockets and they was loving me.

410
00:18:40,260 --> 00:18:42,820
And, you know, I was like, all right, like this is a good opportunity.

411
00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:45,860
There wasn't a lot of drive paces, but like Denver was like, no, we need you to come to

412
00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:48,220
training camp, come to Denver.

413
00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:50,260
You know, we're going to take care of everything.

414
00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:54,060
We're going to have the main guys come for like seven days, workout.

415
00:18:54,060 --> 00:18:55,620
And then from there, we're going to go to Vegas.

416
00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:57,260
So we're going to be already ready.

417
00:18:57,260 --> 00:19:01,780
So me not knowing the business like that and trusting, you know, people out there, I'm

418
00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,060
thinking like, okay, like, why would I do this?

419
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:06,660
Which would have what is guaranteed for me?

420
00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:07,980
And they're like, 20 minutes a game.

421
00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:09,540
I'm like, okay, 20 minutes.

422
00:19:09,540 --> 00:19:10,540
I can make that shake.

423
00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:11,540
Yeah.

424
00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:14,900
When we get there, it was more like six or seven minutes a game.

425
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:18,260
And I'm just like, what?

426
00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:20,660
Like, I could have went to Houston for this.

427
00:19:20,660 --> 00:19:22,480
Did Houston or Orlando?

428
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,980
It's a different experience and then I could have met y'all here in Vegas.

429
00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:30,860
So I just felt like, you know, lied to, and I felt like, you know, they went up for it

430
00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:33,580
or upcoming and who knows, you know, things change.

431
00:19:33,580 --> 00:19:37,060
I know situations change, you know, but, you know, communicate that talk about that.

432
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:40,940
So I was ready to go home, but my agent was like, yo, it's a bad look.

433
00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:41,940
You don't want to do that.

434
00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:42,940
I like I'll play overseas.

435
00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:43,940
Rest of my care.

436
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:44,940
I don't care.

437
00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:45,940
Like I'm not, I don't know.

438
00:19:45,940 --> 00:19:46,940
My goal is to be rich.

439
00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:49,140
I don't care about fame.

440
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:50,700
Like I get play overseas.

441
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:51,860
I can walk to the airports.

442
00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:52,860
No one knows me.

443
00:19:52,860 --> 00:19:53,860
It's a beautiful life.

444
00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:54,860
Like it's cool.

445
00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:56,940
If I'm not in Ohio, it's cool.

446
00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:58,100
Ain't no camera in my face.

447
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:00,980
I can enjoy dinner with my wife or my family.

448
00:20:00,980 --> 00:20:04,460
Like if I'm not overseas or if I'm not in Ohio, I blend in.

449
00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:05,980
It's great.

450
00:20:05,980 --> 00:20:11,340
And he taught me in the stay in, but I was like, I, I'm about to sign right now.

451
00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:13,860
And I was meeting with teams while I was in summer league.

452
00:20:13,860 --> 00:20:16,500
And then I signed my contract in the middle of summer league with China.

453
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:19,220
And then I just kicked my legs back and it was like, whatever.

454
00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:20,980
Now y'all can do what you want to do.

455
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:21,980
Yeah.

456
00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:22,980
Like do what you want.

457
00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:24,340
I don't even really want to play no more now because I don't want to get hurt.

458
00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:26,700
I just signed the biggest contract of my life at that time.

459
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:28,500
I'm like, I don't even want to get hurt.

460
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:32,820
And so that's kind of like where the mindset was, but you know, when you, you, I was used

461
00:20:32,820 --> 00:20:37,260
to having success at that point and I had never been in a situation where like I wasn't

462
00:20:37,260 --> 00:20:38,900
playing minus my rookie year.

463
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:40,740
So it was like, that was an adjustment.

464
00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:42,300
I'm like, man, here we go all over again.

465
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:43,620
Like I didn't prove myself.

466
00:20:43,620 --> 00:20:47,300
So then go to China and that's when I dropped that 82.

467
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:51,540
You know, that's kind of like everybody knew I could score, but you know, like you said,

468
00:20:51,540 --> 00:20:52,660
it's hard to score like that.

469
00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:54,060
Like you got to be in great shape.

470
00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:55,300
You got to be a shop maker.

471
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:56,460
You got to be a three level score.

472
00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:58,900
You got to be able to get to the line.

473
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:01,100
Like all these different types of things.

474
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,940
You know, I kind of like open up the eyes of a lot of people.

475
00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:08,620
I think they already knew, you know, what I could do, but that kind of like put me on

476
00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:14,140
a level of like a phenomenal score, like not just a score, like an elite score.

477
00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:16,820
And that was like, that was a turning point.

478
00:21:16,820 --> 00:21:22,900
And then that led me to Galatasaray where I won the Euro cup championship and Euro cup

479
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,340
MVP and those two, those two things that year in China and that year in Galatasaray, I took

480
00:21:27,340 --> 00:21:29,460
my career to like another level.

481
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:31,860
For those that don't know, just so because I'm a stat guy too.

482
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:32,980
I got your stats for that year.

483
00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:36,460
Do you happen to remember how much you average that season?

484
00:21:36,460 --> 00:21:40,380
First year, I want to say a little bit over 39.

485
00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:45,660
Yeah, 39.6, 5.5 assists, 4.6 boards.

486
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:49,540
And the one that got me is this one right here, the 2.1 steals because 2.1 steals period

487
00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:52,780
over any season would put you in the top five.

488
00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:54,860
Like if you're in the NBA, it's top five period, right?

489
00:21:54,860 --> 00:21:57,300
But 39.6, you couldn't get to 40.

490
00:21:57,300 --> 00:21:59,300
You couldn't get to 40.

491
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,980
So no, that was crazy.

492
00:22:02,980 --> 00:22:03,980
Thank you.

493
00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:04,980
I appreciate it.

494
00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:05,980
Always, always.

495
00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:12,860
So when we talk about now, you just said it puts you on the map and it kind of took off.

496
00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:17,700
Now for those that don't know, and we don't have to necessarily dive deep into finances.

497
00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:21,500
But when you talk about the contract you got from China versus the contracts that you got

498
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:24,980
after that, what would you say the difference is?

499
00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:26,460
How large?

500
00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:36,340
The difference is the year before I went to China, I could only get like, I'd say I was

501
00:22:36,340 --> 00:22:37,340
young though.

502
00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:40,780
I was young, granted, but my offer range was like 150 range.

503
00:22:40,780 --> 00:22:44,820
I was 25 and I was like 150K.

504
00:22:44,820 --> 00:22:48,420
And then when I went to China, there were seven figures.

505
00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:49,420
That was the jump.

506
00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:52,860
So you're talking about 150,000, which is a lot of money.

507
00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:53,860
That's a good way to start.

508
00:22:53,860 --> 00:22:57,260
They're paying for my car, my apartment, whatever.

509
00:22:57,260 --> 00:23:00,460
I'm 25 years old and then boom, that takes me there.

510
00:23:00,460 --> 00:23:06,060
And after that, before that, teams in Europe was hesitant to get that seven figure deal.

511
00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:11,420
And then after they seen I went to China, it kind of raised my value because with China,

512
00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:15,380
a lot of teams in Europe don't like the Asian market, but I was smart.

513
00:23:15,380 --> 00:23:22,220
I did one year and at the time China was only like four to five months on a regular season.

514
00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:25,300
And I went right back to Europe.

515
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:26,540
So my name was still hot.

516
00:23:26,540 --> 00:23:28,460
I didn't stay too long.

517
00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:34,100
And so me and my agent had the idea to go back and forth between Europe and China and

518
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:37,460
that kind of like teams realized that they had to pay.

519
00:23:37,460 --> 00:23:41,020
I think a lot of guys have a have an idea of their value or their worth.

520
00:23:41,020 --> 00:23:44,900
And I'll always say your worth is what somebody's willing to pay you.

521
00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:46,860
You might think you're worth more.

522
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:49,820
You might think, but if you don't have an offer of that, no one's going to give it to

523
00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:50,820
you.

524
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:54,900
So once I was able to get that offer there, then the other teams have to meet that.

525
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:56,580
And so I'm able to get that in Europe.

526
00:23:56,580 --> 00:23:58,180
And then I went to Europe.

527
00:23:58,180 --> 00:24:00,640
They finally was giving me the money I wanted.

528
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,740
And then I went back to China the next year and China ended and it was like five months.

529
00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:08,900
And then I jumped back to Europe in the middle of the season, three months later.

530
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:10,420
And so I was playing both markets.

531
00:24:10,420 --> 00:24:14,900
So they couldn't say you playing in the Chinese league where it's not as competitive as Europe.

532
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:15,900
Did you forget the flow?

533
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,100
Like I'm like, y'all, I did my thing in China.

534
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:20,100
I played well.

535
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,220
Now I'm coming back to Europe after being in China and I'm about to do the same thing

536
00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:24,220
here.

537
00:24:24,220 --> 00:24:27,220
And that kind of kept my value afloat in both.

538
00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:31,220
And it kept both the European market and the Chinese market compete against each other.

539
00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:35,980
Now it's a little bit harder for guys because the Chinese season has increased in length.

540
00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:38,540
It's like almost seven months now.

541
00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:40,460
So it's harder to bounce back and forth.

542
00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:45,420
But I kind of was one of the first guys to pioneer like going back and forth between

543
00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:50,100
China and Europe and maintaining a high worth in both of those markets.

544
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,580
But that's the difference that year.

545
00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:58,860
You're talking a huge financial difference between living a good life and then now being

546
00:24:58,860 --> 00:25:02,820
able to do ample amount of things off the court.

547
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:04,100
So that's really the difference.

548
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:05,540
So it's not clearly it's not the talent.

549
00:25:05,540 --> 00:25:07,420
It's not the talent that didn't like why you're not an NBA.

550
00:25:07,420 --> 00:25:09,340
It was really just where the money was going.

551
00:25:09,340 --> 00:25:12,280
Yeah, I actually had an offer.

552
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,180
It was like 2015 or 16.

553
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:19,540
And at this time, it was with Atlanta Hawks.

554
00:25:19,540 --> 00:25:21,940
And it was to be the third point guard.

555
00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:25,340
And they had Jeff Teague, who was a dog at that time.

556
00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:29,460
He had signed, I think at that time, I want to say like 52 million.

557
00:25:29,460 --> 00:25:31,820
I can't remember how many years, maybe four years.

558
00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:36,420
And then Dennis Schroeder was a young draft pick, maybe had been in the lead a year or

559
00:25:36,420 --> 00:25:37,420
so.

560
00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:38,420
And they wanted me to be the third point guard.

561
00:25:38,420 --> 00:25:39,420
And they were honest.

562
00:25:39,420 --> 00:25:44,940
It was like, look, you're going to be the third point guard.

563
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:48,420
Jeff Teague's our guy, but Dennis Schroeder is our future.

564
00:25:48,420 --> 00:25:49,620
He's not going to be a lot of ministry.

565
00:25:49,620 --> 00:25:50,620
We like your game.

566
00:25:50,620 --> 00:25:51,620
We like what you have.

567
00:25:51,620 --> 00:25:54,620
We know that if something happens to one of them, you'll be ready.

568
00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:55,620
You're professional.

569
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:56,820
You have the talent.

570
00:25:56,820 --> 00:25:57,980
But these are guys.

571
00:25:57,980 --> 00:26:01,060
So you're going to sometimes get DMPs, sometimes play five minutes.

572
00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:02,060
But if one of them, we get hurt.

573
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:05,340
Yeah, you're going to play 15, 20 minutes for sure.

574
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:08,900
And I'm like, okay, I got to wait for somebody to get hurt to play.

575
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:09,900
I'm like, all right.

576
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:11,340
So that's one thing, going to strike.

577
00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:13,700
And then I'm like, do I really want to go?

578
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:18,140
My mom and my dad and my brother was talking to me and they was like, look, I was like,

579
00:26:18,140 --> 00:26:19,140
the lead is cool.

580
00:26:19,140 --> 00:26:21,740
I'm sitting the bench right now too.

581
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:26,020
I don't know if you're going to like that, playing the main road, doing what you like

582
00:26:26,020 --> 00:26:27,020
to do.

583
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:30,460
He was like, it's a lot of politics and stuff in between.

584
00:26:30,460 --> 00:26:31,660
You could kill in practice.

585
00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:32,660
You can do all types of things.

586
00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:34,500
But if there's a draft pick, that draft pick's playing.

587
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:38,220
Or if this guy just signed a certain amount of money, he's playing.

588
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:39,420
It's just per GM.

589
00:26:39,420 --> 00:26:40,420
That's how it go.

590
00:26:40,420 --> 00:26:42,420
And so we sat, we talked.

591
00:26:42,420 --> 00:26:46,700
And then at this time, the minimum of an NBA contract was only 400.

592
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:51,740
And I want to say 69,000 around, give or take.

593
00:26:51,740 --> 00:26:59,420
So you talk about after taxes, you're losing, let's say if you're in a high tax state, 45%.

594
00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:02,300
And then I got to pay my agent fee, 4%.

595
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:03,460
So let's just call that 50.

596
00:27:03,460 --> 00:27:04,460
That's 49.

597
00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:06,020
But let's just call that 50%.

598
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:09,900
So for it to say 470, now you dropped to 235.

599
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:11,260
Boom, just like that.

600
00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:12,260
And I'm like, 235.

601
00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:15,020
Like that was making like, I'm like, what?

602
00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:18,540
And then they was like, now you got to buy your own place to live.

603
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:19,540
I'm in the lead, right?

604
00:27:19,540 --> 00:27:20,540
I can't just live anywhere.

605
00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:24,540
Now I got to pay for my apartment or condo, wherever you want to go.

606
00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:27,660
Now you got to buy a car, like all these types of things.

607
00:27:27,660 --> 00:27:29,620
I'm just calculating all the expenses.

608
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:31,620
And I just came from China.

609
00:27:31,620 --> 00:27:36,660
Like, y'all think I'm about to take 7X less to be the third point guard?

610
00:27:36,660 --> 00:27:37,660
Right.

611
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:38,660
Like 7, 8X?

612
00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:39,660
Like, come on.

613
00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:40,660
Like that ain't going to work.

614
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:43,300
And then the money just, my career kept growing.

615
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,060
So now the overseas offers is just getting higher and higher.

616
00:27:46,060 --> 00:27:53,180
Like at that point, is you going to risk, you know, a year where, you know, you close

617
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:56,380
to pushing two, two million or you 1.8 million?

618
00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:59,840
You going to go after you didn't build up your whole career, I didn't came from a place

619
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,860
where I had to do 30 day contracts.

620
00:28:01,860 --> 00:28:02,860
You going to risk that?

621
00:28:02,860 --> 00:28:06,340
235,000 net for a third string point guard.

622
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:10,580
So what happens if I get cut or if things don't go right, like you get injured, anything.

623
00:28:10,580 --> 00:28:11,580
I want a security.

624
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:14,660
Like I came from the NAIA, like I'm thinking about numbers.

625
00:28:14,660 --> 00:28:18,260
I'm thinking about like, what can put me in a position to where I'll be okay.

626
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:20,300
So for me, I was like, I can't do it.

627
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:25,220
Now, if you're telling me there's an opportunity for minutes for a role, and then I can play

628
00:28:25,220 --> 00:28:27,260
my way into a contract, that's different.

629
00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:32,020
Because I always believe in myself, but there was no opportunity unless the injury occurred

630
00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:33,700
and I didn't want to take that gamble.

631
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:37,660
You had already technically been burned by the NBA, right?

632
00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:39,060
In the summer league.

633
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:42,260
Now if that conversation were to happen with Atlanta, where they're like, yeah, you know

634
00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:48,020
what, we can guarantee you 14 to 16 minutes a game, right?

635
00:28:48,020 --> 00:28:50,420
You're still that third option for now.

636
00:28:50,420 --> 00:28:54,660
We'll see what it looks like with you and the rookie at that time, then a Schroeder.

637
00:28:54,660 --> 00:28:56,700
But gave you some more guarantees.

638
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:00,940
What would have been your influence to actually believe in that given the experience you had

639
00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:01,940
in summer league?

640
00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:02,940
Multi-year contract.

641
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:04,980
That's the only I would have believed in.

642
00:29:04,980 --> 00:29:09,220
If you gave me a multi-year deal, I would have said, okay, I'm in your plans, but they

643
00:29:09,220 --> 00:29:11,500
was only offering a one-year deal.

644
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:13,860
And I was like, nah, I'm okay.

645
00:29:13,860 --> 00:29:16,060
And that was for me, right?

646
00:29:16,060 --> 00:29:19,320
Some guys can take the chance and it might work out for them.

647
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,540
Some guys become two-way players, they get the deal signed.

648
00:29:21,540 --> 00:29:23,020
We didn't have that when I was coming in.

649
00:29:23,020 --> 00:29:24,420
There was no two-way deal.

650
00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:26,020
There was none of that between.

651
00:29:26,020 --> 00:29:29,780
You was either in the G lead, pay scale was way different.

652
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:31,780
It was an A, B, C scale.

653
00:29:31,780 --> 00:29:39,160
If you had an MBA experience, your scale was $24,000 a year gross.

654
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:47,460
If you was on the B scale, your scale was like, I want to say like 20 or $20,000.

655
00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:49,340
And then obviously I'm an AI, right?

656
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:51,300
Coming from a small school, no MBA experience.

657
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:55,020
I would have been C scale and that was $16,000 gross.

658
00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:57,660
So like these kids, I'm happy for them.

659
00:29:57,660 --> 00:29:58,660
The game has evolved.

660
00:29:58,660 --> 00:30:02,180
It's grown out of G lead is actually something that where you can live off of.

661
00:30:02,180 --> 00:30:05,420
But back in my day, you couldn't live off the G lead salary.

662
00:30:05,420 --> 00:30:10,900
All those guys either had a job or they was jumping to somewhere in South America or Puerto

663
00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:13,300
Rico or the Dominican or something after the G lead season.

664
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:19,260
So it was just, I came at a great time for Europe and China to have money and hold the

665
00:30:19,260 --> 00:30:25,140
rules away, but it was a bad time in MBA when it came to all these extra spots they opened

666
00:30:25,140 --> 00:30:26,140
up.

667
00:30:26,140 --> 00:30:27,140
Those two-way contracts opened up.

668
00:30:27,140 --> 00:30:28,140
Those extra roster spots.

669
00:30:28,140 --> 00:30:31,500
They opened up two more extra roster spots, like all these different ways.

670
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:35,060
And you think it doesn't sound like a lot, but if you add two, two ways and then two,

671
00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:36,780
two more roster spots, that's four spots.

672
00:30:36,780 --> 00:30:38,500
There's 30 something teams in the league.

673
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:43,020
You just created 120 extra positions that didn't exist in my prime.

674
00:30:43,020 --> 00:30:46,820
So I'm glad the game's grown, it's evolved, the money's increased.

675
00:30:46,820 --> 00:30:50,380
Now the minimum is what maybe triple what it was when I was coming up.

676
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:51,380
Like, what is it?

677
00:30:51,380 --> 00:30:53,380
A million, million, million one.

678
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:56,420
And in my ear, full 69.

679
00:30:56,420 --> 00:31:03,020
So like, you know, it's just, the game's grown so much and I hope it continues to grow and

680
00:31:03,020 --> 00:31:04,060
continues to peak.

681
00:31:04,060 --> 00:31:09,300
But you know, for me, a multi-year deal would have made me think, okay, y'all mean business.

682
00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:12,420
And you know, I understand like, do you really want to give your third point guard a multi-year

683
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:13,420
deal?

684
00:31:13,420 --> 00:31:17,100
I'm sure you have guys lining up at the door to sign, you know, to be third point guard.

685
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:22,940
I was just in a position where I had leverage and where I was comfortable with playing in

686
00:31:22,940 --> 00:31:23,940
Europe.

687
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:24,940
I liked it.

688
00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:25,940
Like I liked the experience.

689
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:28,260
I've been gone, seeing different parts of the world.

690
00:31:28,260 --> 00:31:31,460
I like nobody asking me for nothing because they think I don't got it.

691
00:31:31,460 --> 00:31:32,460
I like that.

692
00:31:32,460 --> 00:31:33,460
That was a good life.

693
00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:35,900
You know, you ain't in the NBA.

694
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:36,900
You're right.

695
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:37,900
I'm not.

696
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:38,900
I'm not.

697
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:40,700
Yeah, I don't got it.

698
00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:41,700
You're right.

699
00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:44,580
My friend, he just actually just mentioned me just now.

700
00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:47,540
He was just like, that's the best player that never played in the NBA.

701
00:31:47,540 --> 00:31:52,500
And I was just like, and he was like, he averaged like 50, dropped 82.

702
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:54,500
I was like, because he's a basketball junkie.

703
00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:55,500
He listened to that.

704
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,020
He watches all the time.

705
00:31:57,020 --> 00:31:59,140
And then I'm watching the clips and everything.

706
00:31:59,140 --> 00:32:02,500
I'm like, oh, it's he's he is a bucket.

707
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:06,340
But with that being said, like, how much was it that CJ kind of pushed you?

708
00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:08,100
Or was that like a battle when you are growing up?

709
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:10,020
Was that something that you all like went back and forth with?

710
00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:11,700
I'm going to stop real quick.

711
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:14,780
I'm glad he asked that because I don't think CJ pushed you.

712
00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:16,820
I think it was always you pushing CJ.

713
00:32:16,820 --> 00:32:17,820
But correct me if I'm wrong.

714
00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:19,740
Yeah, yeah, I pushed CJ.

715
00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:25,380
So basically, when we were kids, I was the one that made him get up.

716
00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:27,580
I woke him up out the bed.

717
00:32:27,580 --> 00:32:29,580
I was like, yo, we got to go work out.

718
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:30,980
And he'd be like, I'm tired.

719
00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:32,340
I'm like, get up.

720
00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:35,180
And we go to we go outside and we shoot.

721
00:32:35,180 --> 00:32:40,380
And I started like, we didn't really know like everything about basketball, like, you

722
00:32:40,380 --> 00:32:41,940
know, our mom play that play.

723
00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:45,260
We just knew that if you shoot a lot, your jumper going to be wet.

724
00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:47,820
So my parents was both good shooters.

725
00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:49,300
And they was like, you know, you got to practice a lot.

726
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:53,740
So we would go out there and I just start like tracking our shots and I would keep track

727
00:32:53,740 --> 00:32:54,740
of our shots.

728
00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:55,740
And I had a little notebook.

729
00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:57,460
Like, and so it sounds crazy.

730
00:32:57,460 --> 00:33:00,700
But my brother probably at the time was like seven years old.

731
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:01,700
I'm 10 at the time.

732
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:06,380
And I'm just out there like, all right, we got to make 200 shots and we're going to keep

733
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:10,220
track of our shots because I want to see how much we improve.

734
00:33:10,220 --> 00:33:12,260
And so I was charting our makes and misses.

735
00:33:12,260 --> 00:33:16,740
And so he got to the point where like, I was fitting he get a ball, he shoot, I get a ball

736
00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:18,580
shoot and we just shooting and we get on rebounds.

737
00:33:18,580 --> 00:33:20,780
And we shooting and sometimes we rebound for each other.

738
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:22,980
But I just felt like we need to do cardio too.

739
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:24,340
So I'm like, get your rebound.

740
00:33:24,340 --> 00:33:27,220
And so he'd be like, yeah, I shot my shots.

741
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:28,220
I'd be like, no, you did.

742
00:33:28,220 --> 00:33:29,780
I was running faster than you.

743
00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:30,780
And I got more shots.

744
00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:32,740
Get back out there and shoot your shots.

745
00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:33,740
You didn't finish.

746
00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:36,220
And so like literally like I was constantly pushing away.

747
00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:39,100
And then as we got older, like, you know, it's the same thing.

748
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,660
Like he wanted to ride the school with me.

749
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:43,500
At that point, I'm driving.

750
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:44,500
I'm 16.

751
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:45,860
He's 13.

752
00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:47,200
But we have two different schools.

753
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,060
So like he is in eighth grade and my school starts way earlier, but there's a bus that

754
00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:53,220
will take him there.

755
00:33:53,220 --> 00:33:55,180
And I was taking them to my school.

756
00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:58,700
My school was maybe like an hour before his maybe hour and a half before.

757
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:02,340
And so I'm like, all right, look, go to the gym, workout, and then take the bus.

758
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:05,940
So he would work out and then go on the bus since he was like 13 years old.

759
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:10,780
And then I was in like a special business honors program at my school.

760
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:13,660
And so then that school started even the extra hour earlier before that.

761
00:34:13,660 --> 00:34:16,700
So sometimes I go to the gym, workout, and then I go to the class.

762
00:34:16,700 --> 00:34:20,020
He obviously be with me because he wanted to ride the school with me.

763
00:34:20,020 --> 00:34:22,660
And I was just constantly like pushing him.

764
00:34:22,660 --> 00:34:27,060
And I just used to bully him when we was younger, like just hard on them, tough, just dogging

765
00:34:27,060 --> 00:34:28,060
them.

766
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:31,020
And then like, you know, when you're young, you don't really want your brother to be with

767
00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:33,740
you all the time when he's younger.

768
00:34:33,740 --> 00:34:37,420
My mom forced it on us and was like, yo, that's your brother.

769
00:34:37,420 --> 00:34:38,520
Whatever you do, he do.

770
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,020
So imagine like he like six, seven years old, he not that good yet.

771
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:43,020
I'm 10.

772
00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:45,260
I'm hanging out with 10 to 12 year olds, 13 year olds.

773
00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:47,100
And we playing basketball, football.

774
00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:50,260
And if he can't play, I can't play.

775
00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:52,060
So like he was always forced to play with kids.

776
00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:53,060
He was older.

777
00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:54,980
And then eventually he started to get good.

778
00:34:54,980 --> 00:34:59,260
And eventually, you know, his outs started to count in baseball.

779
00:34:59,260 --> 00:35:00,260
His shots started to count.

780
00:35:00,260 --> 00:35:02,180
Instead of us just giving him the ball to shoot a couple of shots.

781
00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:03,660
So he shut up and wouldn't tell mom.

782
00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:06,260
Like now he playing in the live action.

783
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:11,340
And it was just, it was constant pushing and grinding and me being relentless, never letting

784
00:35:11,340 --> 00:35:13,260
them beat me, do all those types of things.

785
00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:18,540
Like he never even beat me in the game of one on one until his junior year.

786
00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:19,540
He beat me in one game.

787
00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:26,180
He still couldn't even say, but like he caught me slipping one game and, and he was so happy.

788
00:35:26,180 --> 00:35:28,700
And that year, that's when they beat Duke and he dropped 30.

789
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,740
That's why after he beat me one game, I said, you ready now?

790
00:35:30,740 --> 00:35:33,460
I said, you still can't mess with me, but you ready?

791
00:35:33,460 --> 00:35:35,700
And like we would always play seven game series.

792
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:41,140
I swear he, he would probably tell you he couldn't beat me in a seven game series until

793
00:35:41,140 --> 00:35:43,020
his second year in the league.

794
00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:47,700
Now it's like, now, now I still can get wins, but like he can get me to serious.

795
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:50,460
Like he just, he got too many tools in the kit.

796
00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:53,940
You know, it's just, he got some stuff, but like it's competitive, but like, you know,

797
00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:57,540
boy tough, you know, like there's a reason they paying what they paying, but that's how

798
00:35:57,540 --> 00:35:59,140
long it took two years in the league.

799
00:35:59,140 --> 00:36:00,940
He couldn't, he couldn't get with me.

800
00:36:00,940 --> 00:36:02,100
Let him know I said it too.

801
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:03,100
He know.

802
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:09,420
As you were, as you were saying that, uh, that story, something that resonated with

803
00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:12,260
me was the fact that, and obviously you've seen it.

804
00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:17,980
The NASAs when it comes to the NBA and Giannis gets a lot of flack for the shit that he does.

805
00:36:17,980 --> 00:36:18,980
Right.

806
00:36:18,980 --> 00:36:22,740
But if you dive deeper into that story, similar to yours, I think what goes under underappreciated

807
00:36:22,740 --> 00:36:27,260
is the fact that you too, as older brothers set the pathway for your younger brothers

808
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:29,380
to thrive and grow into who they are today.

809
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:34,300
I can't, and obviously a lot of people can't thank you enough for pushing your younger

810
00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:35,300
brothers the way you did.

811
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:37,580
Otherwise we wouldn't have Giannis, we wouldn't have Cesar McCullum.

812
00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:40,340
We wouldn't have so on and so forth.

813
00:36:40,340 --> 00:36:42,020
So I just want to say thank you for that.

814
00:36:42,020 --> 00:36:43,020
That's amazing.

815
00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:46,620
As an older brother, you said he couldn't beat you into a second year in the league.

816
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:47,620
And I can see that.

817
00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:51,940
I mean, your highlights side by side are damn near identical.

818
00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:55,540
So he copied my moves.

819
00:36:55,540 --> 00:37:01,340
Obviously both your parents played basketball too.

820
00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:02,740
Who instilled this into you?

821
00:37:02,740 --> 00:37:07,260
Well, if it was them, how, how did that come to be to where you guys again are identical

822
00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:08,980
players, but play at a high level.

823
00:37:08,980 --> 00:37:13,060
You don't see that often with brothers unless it's brought in from somewhere else.

824
00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:14,540
So how that happened with you guys?

825
00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:16,740
I for sure got a credit, my parents.

826
00:37:16,740 --> 00:37:20,480
So my mom made sure we did everything together.

827
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,620
So like we'd be tight knit.

828
00:37:22,620 --> 00:37:26,060
It made us force a bond that was unbreakable.

829
00:37:26,060 --> 00:37:27,060
And you know, you hoop together.

830
00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:30,460
If somebody get in a fight, y'all get in a fight.

831
00:37:30,460 --> 00:37:32,180
Like this is just how we was raised.

832
00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:33,460
Like, and that's what it is.

833
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:37,980
And so people might not see that side because, you know, we talk, you know, articulate ourselves.

834
00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:42,420
My brother's the president of the PA, but like, you know, we from the city, like this,

835
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:43,420
this how it is.

836
00:37:43,420 --> 00:37:45,500
Like now we just, you know, went to a lot of good schools.

837
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:48,060
We educated, but it's still there.

838
00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:49,060
You know, it's still there.

839
00:37:49,060 --> 00:37:51,860
And I think you see it on the court, you know, when it's time to turn up.

840
00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:58,740
But mostly like she always encouraged us to, to play sports, to do stuff, just to kind

841
00:37:58,740 --> 00:38:03,540
of keep us out of trouble because there's so many distractions in the city, drugs, gangs,

842
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:05,380
violence, all types of stuff.

843
00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:10,080
And so like, she knew a busy kid couldn't get in trouble because you didn't have time.

844
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,820
So we was always in every sport, baseball, basketball, football.

845
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:13,820
We did everything.

846
00:38:13,820 --> 00:38:18,180
And then eventually it was becoming too taxing on my parents going to all these different

847
00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:19,180
sporting events.

848
00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:21,420
And my mom was like, yo, you got to choose something.

849
00:38:21,420 --> 00:38:25,940
And you know, I chose basketball as a freshman and that's when we were told to choose a sport

850
00:38:25,940 --> 00:38:26,980
maximum two.

851
00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:30,060
And we chose basketball and my brother copied the same thing because, you know, he looked

852
00:38:30,060 --> 00:38:33,420
up to me and it wasn't our best sport.

853
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:35,660
Basketball was our best sport for both of us.

854
00:38:35,660 --> 00:38:40,620
But you know, we didn't pursue it just because it's not as practical, you know, in a city.

855
00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:43,700
It's not easy to play baseball, to do these things.

856
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:46,140
Like it's easy to go work out in basketball.

857
00:38:46,140 --> 00:38:49,060
It's easy to pick up a ball, easy to find a five or five game.

858
00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:53,220
And then there's more people who look like you, you know, it's just more comfortable.

859
00:38:53,220 --> 00:38:56,540
And so we, we chose basketball just because of comfortability.

860
00:38:56,540 --> 00:39:00,140
And you know, I would see that's what was in the newspaper the most.

861
00:39:00,140 --> 00:39:01,500
That's what got the most notoriety.

862
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,280
And so my mom would always be like when we were younger, if we was in the house, she

863
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,220
started making us do OD chores.

864
00:39:07,220 --> 00:39:10,020
Like, oh, y'all want to be in the house in the summertime?

865
00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:13,520
Like toilets need clean, floor needs clean, this needs wet.

866
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,660
We was like, oh no, we need to get outside.

867
00:39:16,660 --> 00:39:19,560
And so we just started being outside all day.

868
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,780
And that's how like either you was going to be somebody who know how to clean up good

869
00:39:22,780 --> 00:39:24,700
or you was going to be outside playing.

870
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:30,260
And then for my dad, like he would always make us watch Michael Jordan.

871
00:39:30,260 --> 00:39:35,660
So like, imagine you a kid and I just laugh now because imagine you're like three, four

872
00:39:35,660 --> 00:39:41,380
years old and you want to watch cartoons, but, but number 23 is on.

873
00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:44,380
You watching number 23, because that's what my dad watching.

874
00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:48,900
And you know, at that time, you know, one TV in the house, you watching 23 and that's

875
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:49,900
how it was.

876
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:53,060
And when that 23 is over, okay, you can watch your cartoons.

877
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:58,180
And so we were just constantly watching basketball and that's how we started to love it and enjoy

878
00:39:58,180 --> 00:39:59,180
it.

879
00:39:59,180 --> 00:40:02,300
And you learn from it and you start asking questions as you start wanting to be around

880
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,820
the game and your parents show you it.

881
00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:09,660
And obviously like they didn't have like the crazy training knowledge and other stuff,

882
00:40:09,660 --> 00:40:12,020
but they knew like the basics and the fundamentals of the game.

883
00:40:12,020 --> 00:40:14,820
And they knew like things that could help us to succeed.

884
00:40:14,820 --> 00:40:20,500
And I think those two putting that game around us, giving us those options, but allowing

885
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:22,020
it to be a choice.

886
00:40:22,020 --> 00:40:24,900
Like they never made me or my brother play basketball.

887
00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:28,340
They never tried to like, Oh, y'all gonna play basketball.

888
00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:29,340
You're gonna buy me this house.

889
00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:31,900
You're gonna be like, that was never the plan.

890
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:35,700
It was just, we want you to go to get an education.

891
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:37,540
My mom, my dad, you need to go to college.

892
00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:39,060
My dad's like college is expensive.

893
00:40:39,060 --> 00:40:40,060
You need to get a scholarship.

894
00:40:40,060 --> 00:40:44,260
My mom, like you can get one through grades or through sports, but you're gonna have to

895
00:40:44,260 --> 00:40:45,260
work.

896
00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:47,180
And so like, it's different nowadays.

897
00:40:47,180 --> 00:40:50,380
People put their kids in sports for them to go to the league.

898
00:40:50,380 --> 00:40:56,540
We was put in sports not to get in trouble, to stay away from the bad influences and then

899
00:40:56,540 --> 00:40:57,540
to get education.

900
00:40:57,540 --> 00:41:01,900
So, you know, that part of the game is kind of gone now and I'm gonna try to bring it

901
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:06,180
back with my kids, you know, so that you don't feel like a failure if you don't make it professionally.

902
00:41:06,180 --> 00:41:07,500
Like you still made it.

903
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:08,820
You was had a good career.

904
00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:12,060
You became a doctor or lawyer, whatever.

905
00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:13,060
And maybe you do make it.

906
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:15,860
I don't know, but I'm not dependent on you.

907
00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:17,740
Your mom's not dependent on you.

908
00:41:17,740 --> 00:41:19,980
And we want you to blaze your own trail, your own path.

909
00:41:19,980 --> 00:41:23,220
And I think that's why me and my brother are successful because it was never pressure.

910
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:25,020
The family wasn't dependent on us to make it.

911
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:26,380
My parents both were.

912
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:27,700
They both took care of us.

913
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:29,660
So that's the difference.

914
00:41:29,660 --> 00:41:34,820
If you could take an attribute or a skill set from somebody and bring it to your game,

915
00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:37,540
what would you take from somebody and who would it be?

916
00:41:37,540 --> 00:41:40,380
Oh, could it be something physical like size?

917
00:41:40,380 --> 00:41:46,220
Whatever, whatever you think that would have pushed you even further than what you already

918
00:41:46,220 --> 00:41:47,220
are.

919
00:41:47,220 --> 00:41:48,460
It would be physique.

920
00:41:48,460 --> 00:41:54,540
See if I could add like more weight because I have a frame that's just slender.

921
00:41:54,540 --> 00:41:56,740
It's just how it is.

922
00:41:56,740 --> 00:41:59,420
Like the NBA looks at the eye test.

923
00:41:59,420 --> 00:42:04,420
So when you're coming up, if you look the part, how many guys look strong, physically

924
00:42:04,420 --> 00:42:09,920
imposing, great athlete, but they're not really that good at basketball, but they'll take

925
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,080
a chance on them because of that size.

926
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,620
So if I could maybe have that size, I'm 6'2".

927
00:42:15,620 --> 00:42:19,780
It could be different if I was 6'4", or if I was 6'2".

928
00:42:19,780 --> 00:42:26,140
Instead of 180, maybe you 6'2", 200, but my frame just don't gain weight like that.

929
00:42:26,140 --> 00:42:28,620
But if I could do something, I think that's would be a skill set.

930
00:42:28,620 --> 00:42:30,100
I think I'm fine.

931
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:37,820
I can do everything on the court offensively, but the size just for the eye test and then

932
00:42:37,820 --> 00:42:41,080
to make teams feel comfortable, especially when you're coming out like a college and

933
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:42,080
doing those things.

934
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,420
Or when you're coming out of high school and you're trying to get a Division I scholarship

935
00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:48,860
because everybody said, I had Division I game and I was a Division I player, but they said

936
00:42:48,860 --> 00:42:50,340
I didn't have Division I size.

937
00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:54,620
They didn't think I could handle the physicality coming out as like 18 year olds.

938
00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:59,740
So if I would have been a little bit bigger, a little stronger, I think that's the difference.

939
00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:02,660
At the end of the day, you can control your body composition.

940
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:06,260
You can continue to work, you can lift, you can do stuff, you can get stronger, but some

941
00:43:06,260 --> 00:43:08,380
guys is not just going to be bulky.

942
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:10,580
Everybody not Lebron James is strong.

943
00:43:10,580 --> 00:43:14,300
Everybody not going to be built like that and that's life, but you got to make the best

944
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:17,940
of what you have and put forward and maximize.

945
00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:20,380
And I think I was able to do that to maximize my career.

946
00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:24,740
I never thought I would be here or have the career that I have now.

947
00:43:24,740 --> 00:43:26,020
I always believed in myself.

948
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:27,020
I thought I was talented.

949
00:43:27,020 --> 00:43:31,180
I just wasn't sure I would get the opportunity to showcase this, especially based on how

950
00:43:31,180 --> 00:43:35,700
my career went, how I was slept on, how I constantly had to prove myself, how I didn't

951
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:40,020
get the D1 scholarships, how I didn't get the playing time my first year.

952
00:43:40,020 --> 00:43:41,480
So it was a constant thing.

953
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,940
So people might say, how could you not see you were here?

954
00:43:43,940 --> 00:43:49,260
But if you see the battles and hills and the mountains I had to climb, you would have thought

955
00:43:49,260 --> 00:43:50,260
so too.

956
00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:51,260
Yeah.

957
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:56,180
You talk about size in 2017.

958
00:43:56,180 --> 00:43:59,340
I think it was you normally guard all the point guards.

959
00:43:59,340 --> 00:44:03,180
2017 you did not guard one specific point guard who was what?

960
00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:07,340
Six, eight, two, 30 maybe if you know I'm talking about.

961
00:44:07,340 --> 00:44:08,340
Luca, Luca.

962
00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:11,660
What was that experience like for you?

963
00:44:11,660 --> 00:44:14,300
Man, Luca was special.

964
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:15,300
Still is special.

965
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:20,220
But at that time you read about someone, you hear about them all the time.

966
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:25,020
You're going into the yearly season and the first game of the year, Real Madrid, Luca

967
00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:28,220
Dante's potential number one draft pick.

968
00:44:28,220 --> 00:44:34,220
I think a lot of times young guys get overhyped just because they have potential, they have

969
00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:38,860
size but the skill set hasn't yet caught up or they have the skill set but the size and

970
00:44:38,860 --> 00:44:41,220
the strength and the maturity hasn't caught up.

971
00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:47,340
But they're usually missing one of the two, either the skills, either the jump shot or

972
00:44:47,340 --> 00:44:49,300
the physical attributes.

973
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:56,940
This was the first time minus Lebron James that I seen a kid with the physical, with

974
00:44:56,940 --> 00:45:03,380
the maturity, with the pace, with the poise, not nervous, not scared and with the skill

975
00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:04,380
set.

976
00:45:04,380 --> 00:45:06,820
I'm like, oh my goodness.

977
00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:07,820
He had his way.

978
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:11,380
He's posting up on smaller defenders.

979
00:45:11,380 --> 00:45:14,900
He's taking the bigger guys off the bounce.

980
00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:16,820
Back then he was moving a little bit quicker.

981
00:45:16,820 --> 00:45:19,620
He's a little bit lighter than now.

982
00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:20,620
He's leaning on you.

983
00:45:20,620 --> 00:45:21,620
He's finishing.

984
00:45:21,620 --> 00:45:22,620
The pick and roll ability.

985
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:26,460
I've never seen 18-year-old kids, 17-year-old kids play pick and roll.

986
00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:30,780
Coming off, making the corner passes, the skip passes, hitting the short roll.

987
00:45:30,780 --> 00:45:35,860
Really filling it up, giving everybody touches but then still finding a way to bounce out

988
00:45:35,860 --> 00:45:36,860
his scoring.

989
00:45:36,860 --> 00:45:37,860
He did everything.

990
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:42,140
If I can remember correctly, I think he might have been a leading scorer.

991
00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:44,980
I think he had like 25, 24.

992
00:45:44,980 --> 00:45:47,180
I think I had like 23 or 24.

993
00:45:47,180 --> 00:45:49,140
I remember he outscored me by what I had.

994
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:50,140
I'm going to correct you.

995
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:51,140
You had 27 or 26.

996
00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:55,860
I ain't about to let you sell yourself for it.

997
00:45:55,860 --> 00:46:00,100
I remember going into that game and I was just telling my brother, I said, I know this

998
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:06,100
kid is going to be a high draft pick but I'm not about to be on his NBA draft high

999
00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:07,100
draft.

1000
00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:10,100
When your name is from Slovenia, Lupa, Dauntage.

1001
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:14,300
They just showing highlights of me getting cooked and then my phone is buzzing.

1002
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:16,820
I'm like, nah, I'm going to hold my own.

1003
00:46:16,820 --> 00:46:19,140
It's going to be a hard one.

1004
00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:23,780
We got to revisit your contract.

1005
00:46:23,780 --> 00:46:27,380
I remember just saying that and I know my brother watched that game and he was like,

1006
00:46:27,380 --> 00:46:30,140
he said, oh, he's a pro.

1007
00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:34,780
After that game, I had never seen him live and I had skepticism.

1008
00:46:34,780 --> 00:46:36,700
After that game, I said, oh, he's ready.

1009
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:37,700
He's ready right now.

1010
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:40,860
I mean, you see what he's doing.

1011
00:46:40,860 --> 00:46:43,780
He's treating them the same way he did the Euroleague.

1012
00:46:43,780 --> 00:46:44,780
Maybe even worse.

1013
00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:48,500
Eric Green said the same thing about Lupa, which brings me to a good point.

1014
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:53,780
When you talk about being a basketball player, you don't see as much athleticism over there,

1015
00:46:53,780 --> 00:46:56,340
but you see higher intelligence.

1016
00:46:56,340 --> 00:46:59,620
When you look at games that are being played in the NBA and obviously you participate in

1017
00:46:59,620 --> 00:47:04,500
the games that are being played overseas, what is that difference for you when it comes

1018
00:47:04,500 --> 00:47:09,260
to the competition level and how those games are actually being played?

1019
00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:11,700
I think the NBA is the best leader in the world.

1020
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:21,260
I think when you combine talent, physical size, strength, speed, all athleticism, I

1021
00:47:21,260 --> 00:47:26,540
think that's when you're getting the maximum value of players there.

1022
00:47:26,540 --> 00:47:28,860
Are there guys who can play overseas in the NBA?

1023
00:47:28,860 --> 00:47:29,860
Of course.

1024
00:47:29,860 --> 00:47:32,660
Are there guys who probably play in the NBA but struggle overseas?

1025
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:33,660
Of course.

1026
00:47:33,660 --> 00:47:39,940
I think the difference is because maybe guys don't have some of those same physical attributes,

1027
00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:43,340
they're forced to use their mind a little bit more.

1028
00:47:43,340 --> 00:47:46,380
Maybe you're a little bit more fundamental sound here.

1029
00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:48,580
Fundamentals might be better.

1030
00:47:48,580 --> 00:47:53,140
Obviously the effort and the energy is better in the regular season just because it's just

1031
00:47:53,140 --> 00:47:54,140
a difference of game.

1032
00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:55,140
There's not 82.

1033
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:58,620
We're probably more in the regular.

1034
00:47:58,620 --> 00:48:01,300
If you're on a really good team and you're playing multiple games a week, you're probably

1035
00:48:01,300 --> 00:48:08,540
in that 60 range, but we're not playing back to backs, those type of things.

1036
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:10,060
We're not playing 48 minutes.

1037
00:48:10,060 --> 00:48:14,300
We're playing 40 and there's more substitutions, those type of things.

1038
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:19,340
I think the spacing is the biggest difference.

1039
00:48:19,340 --> 00:48:21,260
The court is so crowded.

1040
00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:22,780
It's like a collegiate game.

1041
00:48:22,780 --> 00:48:28,300
It's like you see a lot of guys who struggle in college to really get off, but they have

1042
00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:32,100
a solid career, but they're not that star that they're supposed to be.

1043
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:38,700
Then they get to the NBA and they break out and you see them really start to develop different

1044
00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:40,180
parts of the game that you didn't see in college.

1045
00:48:40,180 --> 00:48:46,300
I think in Europe with the court being so small with no defensive three seconds, with

1046
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:52,780
guys helping, clogging the paint, with a little bit more physicality, the hand checking, those

1047
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:58,420
type of things make it a little bit harder to find your opportunities.

1048
00:48:58,420 --> 00:48:59,420
You'll see it in FIBA play.

1049
00:48:59,420 --> 00:49:04,100
A lot of guys might question, like Lucas said it, a lot of European guys said it.

1050
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:06,100
Some guys who've played in the NBA have said it.

1051
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:07,620
You see guys struggle in FIBA.

1052
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:09,820
NBA All-Stars and they get to the Olympics.

1053
00:49:09,820 --> 00:49:10,820
Why is that?

1054
00:49:10,820 --> 00:49:13,940
It's not the basketball, it's not the rims, everything's different.

1055
00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:16,300
It's the fact that there's no space in it.

1056
00:49:16,300 --> 00:49:20,940
Guys who come from the NBA, I always say if you can shoot, you have a chance to succeed.

1057
00:49:20,940 --> 00:49:24,900
If you're not a shooter, it's going to be really hard for you if you're not a big.

1058
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:29,100
If you're a guard, you need to be able to shoot that pull up, that midi pull up or off

1059
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:30,300
the screen pull up.

1060
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:33,660
If you don't have that, you're not going to make a living in the paint unless you're just

1061
00:49:33,660 --> 00:49:34,740
a freak of an athlete.

1062
00:49:34,740 --> 00:49:39,500
If you're a prime Derek Rose or Russ Rusberg, that's different, but most guys didn't make

1063
00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:43,100
a lot of those.

1064
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:44,420
You're going to need a jump shot.

1065
00:49:44,420 --> 00:49:46,060
You're going to need some picking real skills.

1066
00:49:46,060 --> 00:49:51,380
I think the NBA outside of those max players is a specialty league.

1067
00:49:51,380 --> 00:49:57,820
Guys are really good at one thing and then maybe so-so at a lot of other stuff.

1068
00:49:57,820 --> 00:49:58,820
That's by design.

1069
00:49:58,820 --> 00:50:00,580
They practice just that skill set.

1070
00:50:00,580 --> 00:50:04,500
If you're a corner three guy or if you're a defensive guy, a lot of times other parts

1071
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:05,860
of the offensive game struggle.

1072
00:50:05,860 --> 00:50:09,780
Not saying that they can't do it, they just haven't done it in so long.

1073
00:50:09,780 --> 00:50:10,780
You use it or lose it.

1074
00:50:10,780 --> 00:50:15,500
If you look at everybody, they were a bucket in college or they were a bucket in high school,

1075
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:20,260
but if they haven't used that for six, seven years, I've been stuck in this role, it's

1076
00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:21,260
not easy.

1077
00:50:21,260 --> 00:50:22,260
It's not a light switch.

1078
00:50:22,260 --> 00:50:25,980
I can't just turn it on and just become this dynamic score or this do it all guy.

1079
00:50:25,980 --> 00:50:27,140
This is not possible.

1080
00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:30,740
You have to continue to use your body, your skill set, everything to keep it sharp.

1081
00:50:30,740 --> 00:50:32,420
I think that's the difference.

1082
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:35,900
Overseas you're going to have guys who can do more things because teams aren't going

1083
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:38,580
to pay you X amount of dollars to do one thing.

1084
00:50:38,580 --> 00:50:41,340
If you're a foreigner, they're going to want you to defend.

1085
00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:43,460
That's why I'm out here getting steals.

1086
00:50:43,460 --> 00:50:44,500
That's why I was out there playing defense.

1087
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:46,140
I was young, I was full court president.

1088
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:47,740
They're going to also still want me to score.

1089
00:50:47,740 --> 00:50:51,180
They're going to want me to get assists, to create, to get people easy shots opportunities.

1090
00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:56,420
Then some teams are going to be like, yo, we need a few rebounds from you too.

1091
00:50:56,420 --> 00:51:01,020
That's the difference in Europe where you might be asked to do four things, five things.

1092
00:51:01,020 --> 00:51:03,540
Where in the NBA, we need 20 from you.

1093
00:51:03,540 --> 00:51:05,020
You're not going to guard the best player.

1094
00:51:05,020 --> 00:51:08,980
You're going to guard somebody who don't score, save your energy.

1095
00:51:08,980 --> 00:51:15,700
That's the difference as far as a lot of success for players and a lot of guys maybe not having

1096
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:17,380
that early success or struggling.

1097
00:51:17,380 --> 00:51:18,380
Do you agree with Luca then?

1098
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:23,060
If you average, let's say you average 20 overseas, do you feel you can average 30 in the NBA?

1099
00:51:23,060 --> 00:51:27,260
You would have to have the touches, the ball, the minutes, the same type of thing.

1100
00:51:27,260 --> 00:51:29,380
Your role couldn't change.

1101
00:51:29,380 --> 00:51:32,540
We saw Luca, I think that year, you probably noticed that as well, but I think he averaged

1102
00:51:32,540 --> 00:51:36,740
15 points a game, maybe 14-ish.

1103
00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:40,420
If I remember correctly that year, that would have put you in the top five.

1104
00:51:40,420 --> 00:51:46,780
I know it was like Luca, myself, and I can't remember who the other guys was, but that

1105
00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:49,580
was like the top four scoring in the year lead that year.

1106
00:51:49,580 --> 00:51:52,860
I think maybe I was third or fourth.

1107
00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:58,900
He went from 14 and a half, maybe 15 points a game in the year lead to that year in the

1108
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:02,820
NBA, probably close to 20, probably 18 points.

1109
00:52:02,820 --> 00:52:09,340
If he get that much better in four or five months, maybe, maybe not, I don't know, but

1110
00:52:09,340 --> 00:52:12,500
then the next year he's like 24 games.

1111
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:15,740
That's some big quantum leap.

1112
00:52:15,740 --> 00:52:23,420
I think the skill set and the ability is always there, but the NBA rules are very beneficial

1113
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:28,020
for guys who can create space, who can find their shots, and who can get buckets because

1114
00:52:28,020 --> 00:52:29,260
fans want to see scoring.

1115
00:52:29,260 --> 00:52:31,060
Adam Silver's a smart guy.

1116
00:52:31,060 --> 00:52:32,060
That's by design.

1117
00:52:32,060 --> 00:52:33,060
It's definitely made for entertainment.

1118
00:52:33,060 --> 00:52:34,060
They're smart guys.

1119
00:52:34,060 --> 00:52:39,660
They know what's going to keep the ratings up, and that's why they've adapted different

1120
00:52:39,660 --> 00:52:44,780
rules, tinkered with them, changed certain things to keep that game flow going, to keep

1121
00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:50,420
things safe for the star players so that they have health, but also to keep the quality

1122
00:52:50,420 --> 00:52:54,140
of basketball high and keeping fans engaged.

1123
00:52:54,140 --> 00:52:55,140
Fans want to see scoring.

1124
00:52:55,140 --> 00:53:00,540
They don't want to see that grinded out Slugfest basketball unless it's March Madness.

1125
00:53:00,540 --> 00:53:02,260
That's the only time that they like that.

1126
00:53:02,260 --> 00:53:05,700
Any other time the ratings are low, probably in the Big Ten, all those type of leagues

1127
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:06,700
that just bruise.

1128
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:07,700
They don't want to see it.

1129
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:12,340
They'd rather see that up flowing, fast tempo, high flying, electric plays.

1130
00:53:12,340 --> 00:53:15,460
Who do you think you're top five, like who are your top five players that you played

1131
00:53:15,460 --> 00:53:16,460
against?

1132
00:53:16,460 --> 00:53:17,460
I'm sorry.

1133
00:53:17,460 --> 00:53:18,460
Luca.

1134
00:53:18,460 --> 00:53:19,460
I feel like I know who number one is.

1135
00:53:19,460 --> 00:53:21,460
Yeah, Luca for sure.

1136
00:53:21,460 --> 00:53:22,460
Yeah.

1137
00:53:22,460 --> 00:53:26,380
Well, I actually got to go back because I forgot I played with LeBron in the pro, so

1138
00:53:26,380 --> 00:53:27,500
LeBron got to be first.

1139
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:34,300
LeBron, Luca, my brother, and then Michael Beasley.

1140
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:35,300
Thank you.

1141
00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:36,300
Thank you.

1142
00:53:36,300 --> 00:53:37,300
Okay.

1143
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:38,300
Thank you.

1144
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:39,300
Thank you.

1145
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:40,300
Michael Beasley.

1146
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:41,300
Oh my goodness.

1147
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:42,300
That's the name.

1148
00:53:42,300 --> 00:53:43,300
Animo.

1149
00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:44,300
He could do everything, man.

1150
00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:46,180
Everything on the court.

1151
00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:48,820
No offensive weaknesses.

1152
00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:52,860
He slept on like a lot of people don't realize how great he was as a player.

1153
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:53,860
I know.

1154
00:53:53,860 --> 00:53:56,900
I just did a video on him last night about this and then we were talking to Brandon Jennings

1155
00:53:56,900 --> 00:54:00,540
and he was like, yeah, when it comes to just pure Hoopers, because I think there's a distinction

1156
00:54:00,540 --> 00:54:02,900
between a basketball player and a Hooper.

1157
00:54:02,900 --> 00:54:06,500
When you talk about pure Hoopers, Beasley was top two for him.

1158
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:09,860
So I was like, yeah, he doesn't get the respect that he deserves when it comes to shit like

1159
00:54:09,860 --> 00:54:10,860
that.

1160
00:54:10,860 --> 00:54:16,300
He could shoot, could dribble, post a rebound, play a real path.

1161
00:54:16,300 --> 00:54:21,700
Like we literally, I was in China when I played against him and we had an All-Star, All-Star

1162
00:54:21,700 --> 00:54:22,700
game.

1163
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:24,640
And so I made it All-Star, Beasley made it All-Star.

1164
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,980
My mom happened to be visiting me at the time and my brother was playing for the Portland

1165
00:54:28,980 --> 00:54:30,700
Trail Blazers and I'll never forget this.

1166
00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:33,200
My parents are very honest.

1167
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,300
I'm telling you straight brutal.

1168
00:54:35,300 --> 00:54:39,420
I'm talking about I'm 13 years old and they'd be like, yeah, you played good, but you missed

1169
00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:40,420
three free throws.

1170
00:54:40,420 --> 00:54:41,420
You did this.

1171
00:54:41,420 --> 00:54:43,220
He turned out like, they're going to give you the good and the bad.

1172
00:54:43,220 --> 00:54:45,380
It's just how it is even as an adult.

1173
00:54:45,380 --> 00:54:54,220
And so she's watching the game and she said, oh my goodness, who's that light skinned boy?

1174
00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:55,620
I said, that's Michael Beasley.

1175
00:54:55,620 --> 00:54:57,820
She said, oh my goodness, he good.

1176
00:54:57,820 --> 00:54:59,500
CJ and them could use him.

1177
00:54:59,500 --> 00:55:01,780
He could go play for the Blazers right now.

1178
00:55:01,780 --> 00:55:02,780
We need him.

1179
00:55:02,780 --> 00:55:06,820
And I was like, she was like, that boy's amazing.

1180
00:55:06,820 --> 00:55:09,860
I said, man, I said, there ain't too many people like him.

1181
00:55:09,860 --> 00:55:11,860
I said, he was the number two pick in the draft.

1182
00:55:11,860 --> 00:55:13,340
I'm like, he was behind D-Rose.

1183
00:55:13,340 --> 00:55:16,740
And she was like, I can't believe they let him go, but they do.

1184
00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:18,020
They do miss a lot of guys.

1185
00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:19,620
And I'm like, yeah, like you know how it is.

1186
00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:21,740
And she knows like, cause she's around us.

1187
00:55:21,740 --> 00:55:22,740
She's in the business.

1188
00:55:22,740 --> 00:55:27,260
She's just like, that's somebody who definitely needs to be back in the league.

1189
00:55:27,260 --> 00:55:28,260
Who's your fifth?

1190
00:55:28,260 --> 00:55:29,260
Hold on, hold on.

1191
00:55:29,260 --> 00:55:30,260
Yeah, you still always won.

1192
00:55:30,260 --> 00:55:33,860
So the fifth one was tough.

1193
00:55:33,860 --> 00:55:40,060
And I was really thinking, I would have to say maybe Marshawn Brooks.

1194
00:55:40,060 --> 00:55:45,460
And the way he scores, the way he like moves on the court is effortless.

1195
00:55:45,460 --> 00:55:51,020
Like, it just looks like he's never trying, but he's just consistently getting to where

1196
00:55:51,020 --> 00:55:53,460
he wants to go, how he wants to go.

1197
00:55:53,460 --> 00:55:55,420
Like he really smooth.

1198
00:55:55,420 --> 00:55:56,420
Okay.

1199
00:55:56,420 --> 00:55:57,420
Damn.

1200
00:55:57,420 --> 00:56:00,180
So did you, did you play against Mike James?

1201
00:56:00,180 --> 00:56:01,180
Oh, yeah.

1202
00:56:01,180 --> 00:56:05,380
Mike is see, top five is tough.

1203
00:56:05,380 --> 00:56:06,380
It's tough.

1204
00:56:06,380 --> 00:56:07,380
I know Mike.

1205
00:56:07,380 --> 00:56:08,380
Cause Mike, let's get, let's keep it.

1206
00:56:08,380 --> 00:56:09,380
I gotta, I gotta go.

1207
00:56:09,380 --> 00:56:10,380
I gotta go.

1208
00:56:10,380 --> 00:56:11,380
Mike, I gotta go.

1209
00:56:11,380 --> 00:56:16,380
Mike, because he the number one score in the yearly history.

1210
00:56:16,380 --> 00:56:19,220
Like you, that speaks volumes.

1211
00:56:19,220 --> 00:56:20,220
Mike is cold too.

1212
00:56:20,220 --> 00:56:22,900
He got every shot in the book.

1213
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:24,900
He got every shot in the book.

1214
00:56:24,900 --> 00:56:26,380
I respect that.

1215
00:56:26,380 --> 00:56:27,380
I respect that.

1216
00:56:27,380 --> 00:56:28,620
I love that top five.

1217
00:56:28,620 --> 00:56:29,900
So then let's broaden it out then.

1218
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:32,620
So obviously that's the guys you played against.

1219
00:56:32,620 --> 00:56:36,500
If you had to take a top five period, I mean, anybody obviously would assume Jordan's in

1220
00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:37,500
there cause you grew up watching it.

1221
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:40,500
But who else would be the other four?

1222
00:56:40,500 --> 00:56:44,820
LeBron, Jordan, Shaq.

1223
00:56:44,820 --> 00:56:55,180
And then I'm going to say, Oh, I love AI.

1224
00:56:55,180 --> 00:56:56,180
I'm an AI guy.

1225
00:56:56,180 --> 00:57:00,460
That's who me and my brother grew up like monitoring our games, watching them.

1226
00:57:00,460 --> 00:57:02,260
Like he gave us hope to see a little guy.

1227
00:57:02,260 --> 00:57:03,260
So I'm going AI.

1228
00:57:03,260 --> 00:57:09,020
Like I know a lot of people ain't going to like it, but this is my, my five.

1229
00:57:09,020 --> 00:57:12,380
And then I would say Tim Duncan.

1230
00:57:12,380 --> 00:57:15,460
He just did a video on TD.

1231
00:57:15,460 --> 00:57:17,660
He's definitely slept on slept on.

1232
00:57:17,660 --> 00:57:18,660
Yeah.

1233
00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:22,180
And it's just because they always forget Shaq and Tim Duncan when they do a top five.

1234
00:57:22,180 --> 00:57:26,420
And I'm like, you know, not remember what Shaq was at the five and how Tim Duncan dominated

1235
00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:27,420
the lead.

1236
00:57:27,420 --> 00:57:29,420
Like, that's what I'm saying.

1237
00:57:29,420 --> 00:57:32,660
We were just debating, like every time we do, every time we have people do their top

1238
00:57:32,660 --> 00:57:36,940
fives with us, for some reason, people like to leave Shaq off that.

1239
00:57:36,940 --> 00:57:41,140
Listen, I'm like, name a top five period that doesn't have Shaq in that fucking line, excuse

1240
00:57:41,140 --> 00:57:42,460
me, like fucking lineup.

1241
00:57:42,460 --> 00:57:43,460
Come on, man.

1242
00:57:43,460 --> 00:57:44,460
It's ridiculous.

1243
00:57:44,460 --> 00:57:50,740
And, and if I didn't go off of my favorite, then I would say instead of AI, it would be

1244
00:57:50,740 --> 00:57:51,740
Kobe.

1245
00:57:51,740 --> 00:57:53,140
But AI is my favorite.

1246
00:57:53,140 --> 00:57:55,860
Kobe is my second favorite player, but AI is my guy.

1247
00:57:55,860 --> 00:58:00,780
So like, but if I had to choose just strictly off who I think is the best Jordan, Brian,

1248
00:58:00,780 --> 00:58:03,300
Kobe, Tim D Shaq for four or five.

1249
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:09,460
But if I just went off a sheer who I like AI got to get in there.

1250
00:58:09,460 --> 00:58:11,340
I like that we had a question.

1251
00:58:11,340 --> 00:58:14,460
We had a question that was brought up to us from one of the guys in the chat before.

1252
00:58:14,460 --> 00:58:19,100
And it was like, if Steph, if you remove the jump shot from Steph Curry and remove the

1253
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:22,740
handle from Kyrie, who's the better player now preference?

1254
00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:25,460
I think it's clear as day, but I could be wrong.

1255
00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:26,460
I'm going Kyrie.

1256
00:58:26,460 --> 00:58:29,820
The bag is Kyrie.

1257
00:58:29,820 --> 00:58:30,820
Say something.

1258
00:58:30,820 --> 00:58:37,540
My argument, I said, I said I would pick Curry just because of the minor physical attributes

1259
00:58:37,540 --> 00:58:39,940
that Curry has over Kyrie.

1260
00:58:39,940 --> 00:58:42,140
But I'm saying it's not a landslide.

1261
00:58:42,140 --> 00:58:44,260
I just feel like everybody's like, oh, it's a landslide.

1262
00:58:44,260 --> 00:58:48,860
But like, you don't think Kyrie is stronger.

1263
00:58:48,860 --> 00:58:51,220
You don't think he has better mid range.

1264
00:58:51,220 --> 00:58:52,900
You don't think he's a better finisher.

1265
00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:55,900
You don't think he's better in the post.

1266
00:58:55,900 --> 00:58:58,380
You don't think he's a better space creator.

1267
00:58:58,380 --> 00:59:01,300
Like if you took away his handle, he still has post game.

1268
00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:02,940
He still does have post game.

1269
00:59:02,940 --> 00:59:05,700
He still has pull up and he still can play pick and roll.

1270
00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:10,940
Steph Curry is a great player, but everything is predicated off of the jumper.

1271
00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:11,940
Thank you.

1272
00:59:11,940 --> 00:59:16,460
OK, so let me say that's not really.

1273
00:59:16,460 --> 00:59:19,100
So then when we talk about handles, right?

1274
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:21,100
Steph Curry's name is brought up a lot with this.

1275
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:22,820
I'm not saying he doesn't have a strong hand.

1276
00:59:22,820 --> 00:59:26,340
They just have to guard him all the way at half court because he shoots too good.

1277
00:59:26,340 --> 00:59:30,260
So you can get by anybody when I have to give you zero inches of space.

1278
00:59:30,260 --> 00:59:32,740
Like I say, he's a he's a solid dribbler.

1279
00:59:32,740 --> 00:59:33,740
Right.

1280
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:39,060
So his handle is inflated because you have to jump.

1281
00:59:39,060 --> 00:59:40,060
You can't back up.

1282
00:59:40,060 --> 00:59:41,620
I got to guard you at half court.

1283
00:59:41,620 --> 00:59:43,900
So like one little flinch won't pump fake.

1284
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:44,900
I'm fine.

1285
00:59:44,900 --> 00:59:45,900
Like I have to respect that.

1286
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:47,500
You can't just contest.

1287
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:51,940
I got to jump and make it even tougher shot.

1288
00:59:51,940 --> 00:59:53,300
I guess we.

1289
00:59:53,300 --> 00:59:56,820
Yes, Kyrie would be better in that than that thing.

1290
00:59:56,820 --> 00:59:59,020
But like we talk about we talk about emotions.

1291
00:59:59,020 --> 01:00:01,460
Steph is one of my favorite players.

1292
01:00:01,460 --> 01:00:03,660
So like I just don't feel like it's a landslide.

1293
01:00:03,660 --> 01:00:04,660
Yes, it would be.

1294
01:00:04,660 --> 01:00:08,100
But playing devil's advocate, I think I think I would still put it because I think he does

1295
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:09,100
have a memory.

1296
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:10,100
He does.

1297
01:00:10,100 --> 01:00:11,100
He has no postgame.

1298
01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:13,460
So you think you said what would be you think Steph Curry?

1299
01:00:13,460 --> 01:00:18,100
Oh, Steph has no you think you think he would be an NBA if he didn't have his jumps.

1300
01:00:18,100 --> 01:00:20,660
No, no, somebody told me that there was a somebody told me as a quote.

1301
01:00:20,660 --> 01:00:24,900
They said if if Curry didn't work, I mean, if Curry didn't have a jump shot, he'd be

1302
01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:25,900
playing for Enterprise.

1303
01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:34,780
But I don't know, it's just I do respect I respect very much like I don't know.

1304
01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:38,180
Kyrie is amazing in every aspect of the game.

1305
01:00:38,180 --> 01:00:39,180
But I don't know.

1306
01:00:39,180 --> 01:00:40,420
I just didn't think it was a landslide.

1307
01:00:40,420 --> 01:00:42,140
But I might be my heartstrings.

1308
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:45,620
I think Kyrie the most skilled basketball player we ever saw.

1309
01:00:45,620 --> 01:00:46,620
Oh, yeah, for sure.

1310
01:00:46,620 --> 01:00:48,980
OK, I'm going to have to test you on that.

1311
01:00:48,980 --> 01:00:49,980
Right hand.

1312
01:00:49,980 --> 01:00:52,940
I mean, like, I don't know where he can't do.

1313
01:00:52,940 --> 01:00:54,700
I'm glad you brought this up.

1314
01:00:54,700 --> 01:00:59,500
So Gilbert called me and he was like, hey, before we do this segment, I want to ask you,

1315
01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:01,820
what do you define a skilled player as?

1316
01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:06,540
And the first thing that came to mind, just like most people is for me, Kyrie, Kevin,

1317
01:01:06,540 --> 01:01:09,060
stopping steps up there to Paul George.

1318
01:01:09,060 --> 01:01:10,460
Yeah, exactly.

1319
01:01:10,460 --> 01:01:11,660
Thank you.

1320
01:01:11,660 --> 01:01:14,820
But he said, I think Kobe, Kobe, Kobe.

1321
01:01:14,820 --> 01:01:21,580
And the reason I'm going to say Kobe, Kawhi, LeBron are in the top 10 most skilled ever.

1322
01:01:21,580 --> 01:01:23,020
And this is what we came up with.

1323
01:01:23,020 --> 01:01:26,420
Gilbert said, when you talk about skill, the first thing that comes to mind is always offensive

1324
01:01:26,420 --> 01:01:28,660
ability, which is factual.

1325
01:01:28,660 --> 01:01:30,300
That's probably 90% of the battle.

1326
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:31,300
Footwork is in there too.

1327
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:32,780
Footwork is a skill.

1328
01:01:32,780 --> 01:01:33,780
Thank you.

1329
01:01:33,780 --> 01:01:34,780
Yeah.

1330
01:01:34,780 --> 01:01:36,980
Then we said, OK, well, is shot blocking not a skill?

1331
01:01:36,980 --> 01:01:38,180
Learning how to time that to get it right?

1332
01:01:38,180 --> 01:01:39,180
Is that a skill?

1333
01:01:39,180 --> 01:01:40,860
Is defense not a skill?

1334
01:01:40,860 --> 01:01:43,340
So there's so many intangibles when it comes to skill.

1335
01:01:43,340 --> 01:01:44,340
Yes, anticipation.

1336
01:01:44,340 --> 01:01:45,340
Exactly.

1337
01:01:45,340 --> 01:01:49,100
That we need to start looking at what we actually see a skillful player as differently instead

1338
01:01:49,100 --> 01:01:50,300
of just being offense.

1339
01:01:50,300 --> 01:01:53,980
So that's something we're going to do in the coming days if you wanted to talk about that

1340
01:01:53,980 --> 01:01:54,980
later, we certainly can.

1341
01:01:54,980 --> 01:01:57,780
But when we talk about offensive skill, yeah.

1342
01:01:57,780 --> 01:02:01,060
But Kawhi is fucking the best ever we've ever seen.

1343
01:02:01,060 --> 01:02:02,860
So I agree with you on that.

1344
01:02:02,860 --> 01:02:09,620
Left hand, right hand, floaters, reverses, angles, touch shot, glass shot.

1345
01:02:09,620 --> 01:02:12,140
I mean, he has six to it and he can post you up.

1346
01:02:12,140 --> 01:02:14,740
Like you can literally run the triangle through him.

1347
01:02:14,740 --> 01:02:17,060
You could literally do it and be fine.

1348
01:02:17,060 --> 01:02:19,580
And he can pass and he can create.

1349
01:02:19,580 --> 01:02:24,860
I mean, he can shoot every shot, one leg, two leg, going left, going right, step back

1350
01:02:24,860 --> 01:02:26,020
left, step back right.

1351
01:02:26,020 --> 01:02:28,260
I mean, everything he can do one direction, he can do the other.

1352
01:02:28,260 --> 01:02:34,380
I mean, if you talk about weaknesses, he has zero on offense, zero offensively.

1353
01:02:34,380 --> 01:02:37,300
You don't guard Kawhi and say, all right, I'm going to guard him close.

1354
01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:38,300
No, you don't get broke.

1355
01:02:38,300 --> 01:02:39,300
I'm going to sack off.

1356
01:02:39,300 --> 01:02:40,300
I'm going to sack off.

1357
01:02:40,300 --> 01:02:41,300
He's going to hit the jumper.

1358
01:02:41,300 --> 01:02:43,180
I'm going to force him to the rim with the footers.

1359
01:02:43,180 --> 01:02:44,980
No, he's going to finish on him too.

1360
01:02:44,980 --> 01:02:46,100
All right.

1361
01:02:46,100 --> 01:02:47,940
We're going to funnel him to the mid.

1362
01:02:47,940 --> 01:02:50,260
There's literally no way to guard that.

1363
01:02:50,260 --> 01:02:54,420
Other players, maybe they're OK at some stuff, but there's a big drop off if you take away

1364
01:02:54,420 --> 01:02:56,140
usually a player's first option.

1365
01:02:56,140 --> 01:02:59,420
But with Kyrie, there's nothing.

1366
01:02:59,420 --> 01:03:00,900
What can you do?

1367
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:02,940
We're going to make him play transition and fast pace.

1368
01:03:02,940 --> 01:03:03,940
He's going to do good there.

1369
01:03:03,940 --> 01:03:05,140
Or we're going to make him play in a half court.

1370
01:03:05,140 --> 01:03:06,140
He got that too.

1371
01:03:06,140 --> 01:03:08,860
And he got silent bounce too.

1372
01:03:08,860 --> 01:03:11,300
He definitely does have silent bounce.

1373
01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:12,860
Especially Ramadan Kyrie.

1374
01:03:12,860 --> 01:03:16,060
Ramadan Kyrie is super light.

1375
01:03:16,060 --> 01:03:21,980
So, them right now, you're building a team, you're a GM.

1376
01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:22,980
Who are you picking?

1377
01:03:22,980 --> 01:03:23,980
Who are you picking just regardless?

1378
01:03:23,980 --> 01:03:25,580
Me between Steph and Kyrie?

1379
01:03:25,580 --> 01:03:26,580
Steph and Kyrie.

1380
01:03:26,580 --> 01:03:27,580
OK.

1381
01:03:27,580 --> 01:03:28,580
Yep.

1382
01:03:28,580 --> 01:03:32,380
I did the same thing.

1383
01:03:32,380 --> 01:03:34,380
Steph has this gravitational effect.

1384
01:03:34,380 --> 01:03:36,900
He pulls everything to everybody.

1385
01:03:36,900 --> 01:03:41,060
Him just being on the court, everybody's going to be open.

1386
01:03:41,060 --> 01:03:46,620
Because now the thing is why Steph is so dangerous is because he's good with the ball and off

1387
01:03:46,620 --> 01:03:47,620
the ball.

1388
01:03:47,620 --> 01:03:50,420
Kyrie's not that good off the ball.

1389
01:03:50,420 --> 01:03:51,700
He doesn't run off staggers.

1390
01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:53,100
He doesn't run off pin downs.

1391
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:56,340
He doesn't run off elevated because he's not a ball movement guy.

1392
01:03:56,340 --> 01:03:57,340
Can he do it?

1393
01:03:57,340 --> 01:03:59,580
OK, but it's not something he's asked to do.

1394
01:03:59,580 --> 01:04:04,340
But Steph is good on the ball or off the ball, which is really good for other stars.

1395
01:04:04,340 --> 01:04:08,640
So if I want to pair him with a star, Steph can still go get me 30 off the ball.

1396
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:09,640
He can do it on the ball.

1397
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,100
You can interchange him.

1398
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:14,140
But it's like Kyrie and Luca have to take turns, right?

1399
01:04:14,140 --> 01:04:15,140
Like your turn, my turn.

1400
01:04:15,140 --> 01:04:18,200
I said, well, what Steph, it can just be offensive flow.

1401
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:24,460
So if you're going to pick a team, I'm going to go with Steph one because he has that pool.

1402
01:04:24,460 --> 01:04:29,460
He's easier to play with because of how he moves, how he creates, all those type of things.

1403
01:04:29,460 --> 01:04:33,380
And then also, if you're thinking about the financial aspect, he has a bigger name in

1404
01:04:33,380 --> 01:04:34,380
a grand scheme of things.

1405
01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:37,780
We're talking about kids, dollars, money, box office.

1406
01:04:37,780 --> 01:04:39,700
So you can pair all those things.

1407
01:04:39,700 --> 01:04:41,940
Steph is the guy that you choose.

1408
01:04:41,940 --> 01:04:45,700
So then I have to ask you because you're bringing up some excellent points there.

1409
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:51,380
Dynamic duos, going off of what you just said, Kyrie and LeBron, Steph and Durant.

1410
01:04:51,380 --> 01:04:54,620
Steph and Durant was fluid because they both don't need the ball.

1411
01:04:54,620 --> 01:04:55,620
It wasn't forced.

1412
01:04:55,620 --> 01:04:57,020
Like, what, LeBron and Kyrie?

1413
01:04:57,020 --> 01:05:00,940
LeBron kind of had to get off the ball or like, go ahead, Kyrie.

1414
01:05:00,940 --> 01:05:02,900
I'm going to shrink myself so that it's your turn.

1415
01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:06,160
Kyrie had to shrink himself sometimes for LeBron to do it.

1416
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:07,900
It was always like a your turn, my turn.

1417
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:08,900
It wasn't just a flow.

1418
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:13,580
Like, I felt like the Golden State Warriors were just running plays and somehow Kyrie,

1419
01:05:13,580 --> 01:05:18,660
I mean, somehow Steph and KD would score and it would be in a flow to offense or they would

1420
01:05:18,660 --> 01:05:19,820
create, it wasn't forced.

1421
01:05:19,820 --> 01:05:21,740
It wasn't five guys watching on the perimeter.

1422
01:05:21,740 --> 01:05:23,020
It wasn't straight ice ball.

1423
01:05:23,020 --> 01:05:28,060
Like, it was plays into a flow, into an action, into a quick attack, into a score.

1424
01:05:28,060 --> 01:05:30,140
Like, it was just more beautiful to watch.

1425
01:05:30,140 --> 01:05:31,980
Like that Golden State offense was excellent.

1426
01:05:31,980 --> 01:05:32,980
It was smooth.

1427
01:05:32,980 --> 01:05:33,980
Yeah.

1428
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:38,660
I got to go with it, but Kyrie and LeBron was just more like, I'm unguardable.

1429
01:05:38,660 --> 01:05:42,100
Get out the way.

1430
01:05:42,100 --> 01:05:46,700
Like, and that's, that's really good for those two, but it hurts your role players and it

1431
01:05:46,700 --> 01:05:51,100
makes it hard for them to have functional games when they're going long periods of time

1432
01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:53,260
without touching the ball, without feeling intertwined.

1433
01:05:53,260 --> 01:05:55,620
Nobody wants to play defense for 48 minutes.

1434
01:05:55,620 --> 01:05:59,300
Like, and then the last four minutes you got to shoot some clutch shots that you haven't

1435
01:05:59,300 --> 01:06:00,300
been in the flow all game.

1436
01:06:00,300 --> 01:06:01,300
Yeah.

1437
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:05,420
I think that's also why I appreciated JR Smith towards the back end of his career, because

1438
01:06:05,420 --> 01:06:07,180
that's exactly what he had to do.

1439
01:06:07,180 --> 01:06:10,060
And that's exactly what he delivered minus the, you know, the fuck up.

1440
01:06:10,060 --> 01:06:12,380
But he was excellent.

1441
01:06:12,380 --> 01:06:13,380
He was excellent.

1442
01:06:13,380 --> 01:06:14,380
He was it.

1443
01:06:14,380 --> 01:06:15,380
Yeah.

1444
01:06:15,380 --> 01:06:18,060
So if you're a spot up shooter and you can't create space and you know, you're going to

1445
01:06:18,060 --> 01:06:22,700
want to play with LeBron and Kyrie, you know, but if you're a guy who likes to do some things,

1446
01:06:22,700 --> 01:06:25,820
who likes to create your own offense and do those things, you're going to want to play

1447
01:06:25,820 --> 01:06:28,660
with Steph and KD because they're going to give you an opportunity to do that.

1448
01:06:28,660 --> 01:06:30,780
And JR could do everything at that time.

1449
01:06:30,780 --> 01:06:34,420
Let me clarify that he could do everything, but he adapted his game.

1450
01:06:34,420 --> 01:06:35,420
He took that role.

1451
01:06:35,420 --> 01:06:36,420
Yeah.

1452
01:06:36,420 --> 01:06:38,540
He was looking like Kobe in them early Denver years.

1453
01:06:38,540 --> 01:06:39,540
Thank you.

1454
01:06:39,540 --> 01:06:40,540
Thank you.

1455
01:06:40,540 --> 01:06:41,540
Like baby Kobe.

1456
01:06:41,540 --> 01:06:44,300
We talk about elite scorers.

1457
01:06:44,300 --> 01:06:46,620
Obviously, I think you're in that category, especially overseas.

1458
01:06:46,620 --> 01:06:50,500
But if we talk about NBA, Carmelo or Durant.

1459
01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:54,460
If you want to talk about like there's nothing you can do about it, I'm going to get it.

1460
01:06:54,460 --> 01:06:55,460
It's Mello.

1461
01:06:55,460 --> 01:07:03,900
He could do it with brute force, physicality in the post, mid range threes, driving.

1462
01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:07,140
Young Mello was finishing over you or through you.

1463
01:07:07,140 --> 01:07:12,460
But if you're talking about efficiency, beautiful buckets, purity from a basketball purest standpoint,

1464
01:07:12,460 --> 01:07:16,820
from it being in the flow of the offense, from it not being a force, from everybody

1465
01:07:16,820 --> 01:07:22,500
still being involved, from a guy who can maybe go get you 30 and it might take 13 shots,

1466
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:23,900
it's going to be Durant.

1467
01:07:23,900 --> 01:07:27,260
Sometimes you want Durant to be a little bit more aggressive.

1468
01:07:27,260 --> 01:07:34,060
But I mean, he's the guy that, you know, can really dominate the game and always be like,

1469
01:07:34,060 --> 01:07:36,180
man, he didn't feel like he shot that much.

1470
01:07:36,180 --> 01:07:40,660
And then you look at the stats and oh, he had 30.

1471
01:07:40,660 --> 01:07:43,900
Where Mello is going to impose himself in the game, he's going to force himself in the

1472
01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:45,940
game and he's going to be very good at it.

1473
01:07:45,940 --> 01:07:47,580
Like he's setting the tone early.

1474
01:07:47,580 --> 01:07:49,780
KD, more of a guy that lets it come to him.

1475
01:07:49,780 --> 01:07:53,180
So again, another conversation I was having when you talk, when you take two teams, right?

1476
01:07:53,180 --> 01:07:55,340
And you don't see this often in any aspect.

1477
01:07:55,340 --> 01:07:59,020
We take two teams that are competing for a championship.

1478
01:07:59,020 --> 01:08:01,940
You have one team that has the basketball IQ, right?

1479
01:08:01,940 --> 01:08:03,340
But they don't have as much experience.

1480
01:08:03,340 --> 01:08:06,020
So they have talent and IQ.

1481
01:08:06,020 --> 01:08:09,680
Posing team has experience and talent.

1482
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,180
Which one of these two teams are more likely to win?

1483
01:08:12,180 --> 01:08:15,700
What's tough is the young players, usually their IQ is a little bit slower.

1484
01:08:15,700 --> 01:08:18,900
But if they have IQ, like you said, I'm going to go with the younger players because the

1485
01:08:18,900 --> 01:08:22,580
talent, the physicality is there and they have the IQ.

1486
01:08:22,580 --> 01:08:27,260
But you're going to need a couple of experienced guys sprinkled in there to kind of relax the

1487
01:08:27,260 --> 01:08:28,260
situation.

1488
01:08:28,260 --> 01:08:31,700
If it's all young guys, I'm not going to go with them just because they haven't been in

1489
01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:32,700
that moment.

1490
01:08:32,700 --> 01:08:34,460
They don't know what to expect.

1491
01:08:34,460 --> 01:08:37,060
A lot of these guys might not have faced adversity.

1492
01:08:37,060 --> 01:08:40,660
So you're talking about five star athletes, right?

1493
01:08:40,660 --> 01:08:43,420
Who came out, McDonald's, All American.

1494
01:08:43,420 --> 01:08:46,380
You've been fighting private, doing stuff since she was 14, 15 years old.

1495
01:08:46,380 --> 01:08:50,500
Some of these kids that having new deals at that age might be already millionaires.

1496
01:08:50,500 --> 01:08:53,780
Then you go to college, everybody caters to you.

1497
01:08:53,780 --> 01:08:57,460
Coaches are scared to coach you because you'll transfer, you'll leave schools, you'll shut

1498
01:08:57,460 --> 01:08:59,420
down, you'll stop playing.

1499
01:08:59,420 --> 01:09:03,200
You're already on draft boys, your world and your life has kind of been plotted out since

1500
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:04,460
you were 14 years old.

1501
01:09:04,460 --> 01:09:06,300
Where's the adversity in basketball?

1502
01:09:06,300 --> 01:09:09,860
Maybe there's adversity in your life, you know, off the court, but in basketball, you

1503
01:09:09,860 --> 01:09:15,180
have never faced a trial or tribulation because you've been that guy from day one.

1504
01:09:15,180 --> 01:09:19,460
Then you get to the league, you're an early draft pick, the ball is given to you, everything's

1505
01:09:19,460 --> 01:09:20,660
going your way.

1506
01:09:20,660 --> 01:09:25,100
What happens when you're getting killed on national TV for bad performances or when things

1507
01:09:25,100 --> 01:09:28,500
aren't going right or when they're constantly draining you mentally?

1508
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:33,700
The media can be very blunt and they can be rough on you.

1509
01:09:33,700 --> 01:09:36,780
A lot of young guys, that's hard to live with and to deal with.

1510
01:09:36,780 --> 01:09:39,540
They can upset not only you, your family, all type of things.

1511
01:09:39,540 --> 01:09:42,140
So you have to be able to take your emotions out of that.

1512
01:09:42,140 --> 01:09:49,220
I think I always go with experience if they're still in that age grade where they can kind

1513
01:09:49,220 --> 01:09:51,620
of still play at a high level, they can do stuff.

1514
01:09:51,620 --> 01:09:55,900
But young guys with right vets, it can be a beautiful thing.

1515
01:09:55,900 --> 01:10:00,620
And I think that's why you see guys like, you know, Giannis hasn't played for so long,

1516
01:10:00,620 --> 01:10:02,460
the things he brought off the court.

1517
01:10:02,460 --> 01:10:06,820
That's why you see LeBron still being so successful because a lot of these younger guys don't have

1518
01:10:06,820 --> 01:10:08,540
the IQ yet or the experience.

1519
01:10:08,540 --> 01:10:14,680
Obviously, he's a great talent, but he's a guy that's just so smart beyond his years.

1520
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:20,500
You see a lot of Andre Gondola those years with Golden State, not only was he the voice,

1521
01:10:20,500 --> 01:10:24,500
the focal point that held them together, this is the guy that actually made huge plays in

1522
01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:30,220
the finals, was the finals MVP when people probably thought his career was possibly over.

1523
01:10:30,220 --> 01:10:32,500
But you see what he can do.

1524
01:10:32,500 --> 01:10:37,020
I think every team has those kind of guys who win championships and who are going to

1525
01:10:37,020 --> 01:10:38,340
help you get over the edge.

1526
01:10:38,340 --> 01:10:43,780
And without that, you can be as smart as you want, but you've never been in that situation.

1527
01:10:43,780 --> 01:10:44,780
It's tough.

1528
01:10:44,780 --> 01:10:46,980
It's like being a parent, right?

1529
01:10:46,980 --> 01:10:50,420
You have an idea, you read all these books, you prepare, but you have no clue till you

1530
01:10:50,420 --> 01:10:51,420
have a child.

1531
01:10:51,420 --> 01:10:55,340
And I think those experienced guys, they're somebody who's already had a child, right?

1532
01:10:55,340 --> 01:10:58,620
So they're going in, they've been here, they've been in that championship.

1533
01:10:58,620 --> 01:11:00,900
They've seen this kid grow.

1534
01:11:00,900 --> 01:11:02,700
Now they're more prepared for the second kid.

1535
01:11:02,700 --> 01:11:05,940
And that's kind of how I compare experience.

1536
01:11:05,940 --> 01:11:11,620
On the names you listed there, obviously championship caliber players, on championship caliber teams

1537
01:11:11,620 --> 01:11:16,340
are not the main focal point or main guy that have the IQ experience that you're referring

1538
01:11:16,340 --> 01:11:18,820
to outside of someone like LeBron James, right?

1539
01:11:18,820 --> 01:11:21,440
Because it's LeBron James.

1540
01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:26,700
So the game or the teams that I'm referring to actually in the 2021 finals, Milwaukee

1541
01:11:26,700 --> 01:11:28,380
Bucks versus Phoenix Suns.

1542
01:11:28,380 --> 01:11:32,740
Phoenix Suns in my case, or in my opinion, being the more IQish team, whereas the Bucks

1543
01:11:32,740 --> 01:11:34,220
have the experience and talent.

1544
01:11:34,220 --> 01:11:37,820
I'm saying, and forgive me, Kyle, because this is one of his favorite players ever.

1545
01:11:37,820 --> 01:11:41,100
Am I wrong for saying Chris Paul is not that guy or can't be that guy?

1546
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:44,420
I mean, history has kind of shown that a little bit.

1547
01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:48,500
I think he could have been the guy that year in Houston when he got hurt.

1548
01:11:48,500 --> 01:11:49,740
When he got hurt game six.

1549
01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:50,740
Good point.

1550
01:11:50,740 --> 01:11:54,700
That game six, that was the year when he was at his peak.

1551
01:11:54,700 --> 01:11:55,700
He was playing well.

1552
01:11:55,700 --> 01:11:56,700
He was smart.

1553
01:11:56,700 --> 01:11:59,700
His IQ was high and they were really controlling the series.

1554
01:11:59,700 --> 01:12:02,820
And I think that was his move.

1555
01:12:02,820 --> 01:12:05,420
I think he was dominating and he was so smart.

1556
01:12:05,420 --> 01:12:07,220
I think that was his point.

1557
01:12:07,220 --> 01:12:15,260
I think now it can't be he's at that point where he's declining and everybody can't decline

1558
01:12:15,260 --> 01:12:16,260
like LeBron.

1559
01:12:16,260 --> 01:12:20,580
His decline is still ridiculous.

1560
01:12:20,580 --> 01:12:24,500
Everybody's at a different body type, a different composition.

1561
01:12:24,500 --> 01:12:27,620
Some things aren't built to last forever.

1562
01:12:27,620 --> 01:12:32,140
And I think when you look at Chris Paul's injury history, you look at his body, you

1563
01:12:32,140 --> 01:12:35,700
look at those type of things, he just hasn't been fortunate health-wise.

1564
01:12:35,700 --> 01:12:39,700
And so those injuries, they wear, they tear, they wear on you as you get older and older.

1565
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:42,820
And I think Father of Time has caught up because this is a guy who was one of the greatest

1566
01:12:42,820 --> 01:12:45,420
point guards of this generation.

1567
01:12:45,420 --> 01:12:48,860
When you're thinking about those New Orleans days, when you're thinking about all that

1568
01:12:48,860 --> 01:12:54,220
success he had, what he was able to turn that into and how he spearheaded those Rockets

1569
01:12:54,220 --> 01:12:56,060
teams before the injury.

1570
01:12:56,060 --> 01:13:00,300
This is a high level player.

1571
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:03,260
He had one window, one shot and you need the perfect team.

1572
01:13:03,260 --> 01:13:07,740
The basketball is a tough game, but you could be the best player you want to be.

1573
01:13:07,740 --> 01:13:10,820
But if you don't have the right pieces, if you're not clicking at the right time, if

1574
01:13:10,820 --> 01:13:14,620
you don't have health, everything has to fall together at once.

1575
01:13:14,620 --> 01:13:17,820
You don't have to be the best team, but you just have to be playing the best at that time.

1576
01:13:17,820 --> 01:13:22,140
And that's what you saw with those Miami Heat teams that made those deep runs, made some

1577
01:13:22,140 --> 01:13:23,140
upsets.

1578
01:13:23,140 --> 01:13:24,140
They weren't the best.

1579
01:13:24,140 --> 01:13:27,420
They didn't have the most talent, but they were playing the best at that time.

1580
01:13:27,420 --> 01:13:28,580
And that's what triggered them.

1581
01:13:28,580 --> 01:13:30,180
And I think that's the key.

1582
01:13:30,180 --> 01:13:35,700
So I think Golden State, if that's who you're referring to now since CP is there, I don't

1583
01:13:35,700 --> 01:13:38,340
see the championship even a chance in it.

1584
01:13:38,340 --> 01:13:39,780
I mean, the West is loaded.

1585
01:13:39,780 --> 01:13:43,420
I mean, you think about Denver, I'm not going to count OKC.

1586
01:13:43,420 --> 01:13:47,220
They're great, but they're not ready yet.

1587
01:13:47,220 --> 01:13:48,220
They're too young.

1588
01:13:48,220 --> 01:13:50,740
They don't have that experience, but they're excellent.

1589
01:13:50,740 --> 01:13:56,260
But I still think that's Denver's opportunity to do something with until somebody knocks

1590
01:13:56,260 --> 01:13:57,260
them off.

1591
01:13:57,260 --> 01:14:03,740
And then even then, maybe Phoenix might be able to do something, but they pigeonholed

1592
01:14:03,740 --> 01:14:07,700
themselves by being in the play playing.

1593
01:14:07,700 --> 01:14:08,700
Same with the Lakers.

1594
01:14:08,700 --> 01:14:09,700
Those teams have experience.

1595
01:14:09,700 --> 01:14:14,660
They have good players, but it's very hard to get out the doghouse when you dig a hole

1596
01:14:14,660 --> 01:14:15,660
like that.

1597
01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:19,820
And then you still think the Clippers are loaded.

1598
01:14:19,820 --> 01:14:24,700
If any of they could just stay healthy, they're the best team in NBA.

1599
01:14:24,700 --> 01:14:25,700
They have the experience.

1600
01:14:25,700 --> 01:14:26,900
They have the championship knowledge.

1601
01:14:26,900 --> 01:14:27,900
They have a good coach.

1602
01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:32,180
Like if they don't get injured, I'd be shocked if they don't win the championship.

1603
01:14:32,180 --> 01:14:35,660
The only person that maybe can knock them off because they match up bad against them

1604
01:14:35,660 --> 01:14:36,660
is the Pails.

1605
01:14:36,660 --> 01:14:39,860
If the Pails can maintain maybe that first spot.

1606
01:14:39,860 --> 01:14:41,900
That's a bad matchup for the Clippers.

1607
01:14:41,900 --> 01:14:44,040
They just have watched the games in a regular season.

1608
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:45,040
They have the size.

1609
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:46,040
They have the matchups.

1610
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:50,180
They have guys who Herb can guard.

1611
01:14:50,180 --> 01:14:53,220
They have the pieces that can put their Brandon Ingram can get in front of Paul Jordan.

1612
01:14:53,220 --> 01:14:54,220
They have the length, have the size.

1613
01:14:54,220 --> 01:14:58,180
It's not going to be easy, but they have the buddies and then there's no answer for Zion.

1614
01:14:58,180 --> 01:15:01,400
So if you just think like they have nobody to guard him.

1615
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:02,820
So you think about matchups.

1616
01:15:02,820 --> 01:15:04,620
Like what are you going to do?

1617
01:15:04,620 --> 01:15:08,060
You're going to put Kawhi and Paul Jordan on Zion and he could just go through them

1618
01:15:08,060 --> 01:15:10,340
and bully boss all game.

1619
01:15:10,340 --> 01:15:13,100
That's 10 fouls.

1620
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:16,200
He's running through them and you know what the injury history is that what you really

1621
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:17,200
want to do.

1622
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:18,200
Right.

1623
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:22,740
I agree with you, but at the same time, like it's hard for me to bet against a healthy

1624
01:15:22,740 --> 01:15:23,740
Kawhi.

1625
01:15:23,740 --> 01:15:27,940
Like as much as, as much as we talk about his injury history, which is obviously a factor

1626
01:15:27,940 --> 01:15:32,620
and it's a lot of the reason he hasn't been able to do anything in recent years, Kawhi

1627
01:15:32,620 --> 01:15:37,780
is one of the scariest superstars I think in the postseason when healthy animal animal

1628
01:15:37,780 --> 01:15:41,220
and Paul George and then Norman Powell.

1629
01:15:41,220 --> 01:15:42,220
Norman.

1630
01:15:42,220 --> 01:15:43,220
I like you.

1631
01:15:43,220 --> 01:15:47,180
I like the X Factor on that.

1632
01:15:47,180 --> 01:15:48,180
Yes.

1633
01:15:48,180 --> 01:15:49,180
He's the difference.

1634
01:15:49,180 --> 01:15:53,940
And so when you put that together to me, the Clippers is the best team in the NBA.

1635
01:15:53,940 --> 01:15:57,100
It's just a matter of can they be healthy?

1636
01:15:57,100 --> 01:15:58,100
You never know.

1637
01:15:58,100 --> 01:16:01,340
Denver has the best chemistry, chemistry Boston.

1638
01:16:01,340 --> 01:16:03,020
Boston has the most talent.

1639
01:16:03,020 --> 01:16:04,020
Thank you.

1640
01:16:04,020 --> 01:16:08,980
You start looking at all these different things and it's like, which one is going to give?

1641
01:16:08,980 --> 01:16:13,380
And for me, the Clippers is the best, but if one guy gets injured, you know, everything

1642
01:16:13,380 --> 01:16:17,580
says and it's highly likely that could happen to them because it's happened so much.

1643
01:16:17,580 --> 01:16:19,820
You don't even want to get your hopes up for what they could be.

1644
01:16:19,820 --> 01:16:20,820
I agree.

1645
01:16:20,820 --> 01:16:25,540
And you look at PG, obviously Kawhi, even James Harden has had injury history and then

1646
01:16:25,540 --> 01:16:28,900
Russ Russ is normally healthy for a long stretch.

1647
01:16:28,900 --> 01:16:30,260
He's had recent injuries too.

1648
01:16:30,260 --> 01:16:31,620
So it's it's up in the air.

1649
01:16:31,620 --> 01:16:32,620
I agree with you on that.

1650
01:16:32,620 --> 01:16:33,620
But I like that on paper.

1651
01:16:33,620 --> 01:16:35,940
Definitely on paper for sure.

1652
01:16:35,940 --> 01:16:38,620
You brought the sons and this is actually a video I'm probably going to do later this

1653
01:16:38,620 --> 01:16:40,740
week because I think it's going to happen.

1654
01:16:40,740 --> 01:16:45,700
I.T. Isaiah Thomas obviously signed a 10 day with them, which was phenomenal for the NBA

1655
01:16:45,700 --> 01:16:48,540
and phenomenal for him, I loved it.

1656
01:16:48,540 --> 01:16:52,140
But the problem with that is, and you tell me your opinion on 10 day contracts in general,

1657
01:16:52,140 --> 01:16:56,300
when you sign someone like that, especially towards this part of the season where every

1658
01:16:56,300 --> 01:17:00,860
game, especially in the West, counts and you need to get these dubs, you're not playing

1659
01:17:00,860 --> 01:17:02,240
him right.

1660
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:08,540
So from an inside perspective, are you only looking at Isaiah Thomas for veteran leadership,

1661
01:17:08,540 --> 01:17:09,540
chemistry?

1662
01:17:09,540 --> 01:17:11,740
If someone gets hurt, obviously you need someone to come in.

1663
01:17:11,740 --> 01:17:13,260
Is that what you're looking at this for?

1664
01:17:13,260 --> 01:17:17,060
Or is it just we just, you know, we're signed him 10 day, we're going to let him go.

1665
01:17:17,060 --> 01:17:18,140
It is what it is.

1666
01:17:18,140 --> 01:17:20,660
I think they wanted to see if he was healthy.

1667
01:17:20,660 --> 01:17:21,660
Right.

1668
01:17:21,660 --> 01:17:22,660
OK.

1669
01:17:22,660 --> 01:17:25,020
He's a guy that could help you potentially in the postseason.

1670
01:17:25,020 --> 01:17:31,300
You know, right now it's too much to ask of somebody to come in maybe not in mode as far

1671
01:17:31,300 --> 01:17:32,500
as tip top basketball.

1672
01:17:32,500 --> 01:17:35,580
Yes, he's been working out, he's been training, but that's the difference between being in

1673
01:17:35,580 --> 01:17:38,380
the games, getting up and down the court, practicing every day.

1674
01:17:38,380 --> 01:17:40,460
So you bring him in, you see where he's at.

1675
01:17:40,460 --> 01:17:41,460
Right.

1676
01:17:41,460 --> 01:17:47,580
So I think he can be potentially a spark off the bench score with the Suns history with

1677
01:17:47,580 --> 01:17:48,580
injuries this season.

1678
01:17:48,580 --> 01:17:49,580
It's been awful.

1679
01:17:49,580 --> 01:17:54,180
So now you have a guy who if one of your main guys go down, because for some reason, their

1680
01:17:54,180 --> 01:17:55,580
big three can't play together.

1681
01:17:55,580 --> 01:17:58,300
Like, I don't know why they just they're always injured.

1682
01:17:58,300 --> 01:18:02,460
You can't get Bill Booker in their rent all together.

1683
01:18:02,460 --> 01:18:08,160
So, you know, to make a deep run in the postseason now, you need three guys who can score.

1684
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:13,540
And I think he's insurance in case one of those guys can't and he might not be consistent

1685
01:18:13,540 --> 01:18:15,020
with it because he's been out for a while.

1686
01:18:15,020 --> 01:18:16,460
He might not be able to do every night.

1687
01:18:16,460 --> 01:18:22,180
But if there's one game and IT has that ability we've seen in the past that he could change

1688
01:18:22,180 --> 01:18:26,540
the outcome of a game and it might not be 30 points like old IT, but it might be a quarter

1689
01:18:26,540 --> 01:18:29,180
where you know, the offense is struggling.

1690
01:18:29,180 --> 01:18:34,180
They're not scoring and you're able to get, you know, 10, 12 points out of him that court.

1691
01:18:34,180 --> 01:18:35,180
Yeah.

1692
01:18:35,180 --> 01:18:39,500
And maybe he finishes the game with 14, 15 points, but he had a quarter where he changed

1693
01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:40,500
the series.

1694
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:44,420
And if that only cost you a 10 day contract, when you're thinking of financial terms, when

1695
01:18:44,420 --> 01:18:49,460
you're thinking of cap space, then that's the guy that you take because it does cost

1696
01:18:49,460 --> 01:18:50,460
you nothing.

1697
01:18:50,460 --> 01:18:52,260
Like there's nothing you lose there.

1698
01:18:52,260 --> 01:18:56,260
He's a guy that actually has a good fan base to like it's a good feel good story.

1699
01:18:56,260 --> 01:18:59,980
And then if anything, you're bringing in a vet who's been humbled, who's coming in with

1700
01:18:59,980 --> 01:19:04,420
good character, who could be a leader to some of the younger guys who could lean on and

1701
01:19:04,420 --> 01:19:06,220
his experience, he's been in big games.

1702
01:19:06,220 --> 01:19:09,700
You know, he's been in big games seven, he's faced adversity, you know, the death of his

1703
01:19:09,700 --> 01:19:12,180
sister when he was able to go out there and go crazy.

1704
01:19:12,180 --> 01:19:16,740
I don't know what 50 and it just shows you that he's mentally tough and strong.

1705
01:19:16,740 --> 01:19:20,420
And if anything, even if he doesn't get you scoring off the bench or he doesn't even have

1706
01:19:20,420 --> 01:19:24,460
an impact on your games, you're bringing in somebody who could be good for your team camaraderie

1707
01:19:24,460 --> 01:19:29,020
and who's mentally strong and you can never get enough to good team guys, you know, so

1708
01:19:29,020 --> 01:19:32,580
whether it's him or another guy, if you're going to use them or not, you want to bring

1709
01:19:32,580 --> 01:19:33,740
in a good character.

1710
01:19:33,740 --> 01:19:37,060
And I think that's what the Suns was looking at, because there's going to be adversity

1711
01:19:37,060 --> 01:19:38,940
in the playoffs, there's going to be ups and downs.

1712
01:19:38,940 --> 01:19:41,140
And for them, it could be in the playing.

1713
01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:46,340
And I think a guy like him having his knowledge, his experience, it could be valuable, whether

1714
01:19:46,340 --> 01:19:50,700
he plays or not, it could be a Udonna's Haslem role, or it could be, you know what, someone

1715
01:19:50,700 --> 01:19:54,460
got hurt, we're going to throw you into the series, go shock the world.

1716
01:19:54,460 --> 01:19:59,060
Do you think if you have a 10 day contract that there should be some type of like minimal

1717
01:19:59,060 --> 01:20:01,020
amount of minutes that you should play?

1718
01:20:01,020 --> 01:20:04,060
Like the other day, we're sitting there, I forgot who they're playing, but they were

1719
01:20:04,060 --> 01:20:05,060
up at like 50.

1720
01:20:05,060 --> 01:20:06,060
Spurs, I think they were.

1721
01:20:06,060 --> 01:20:10,100
They were playing the Spurs, they were up at like 30 in the middle of the third quarter.

1722
01:20:10,100 --> 01:20:13,420
And then when you got to the fourth quarter, like 10 minutes left, they still up by a good

1723
01:20:13,420 --> 01:20:14,420
amount.

1724
01:20:14,420 --> 01:20:16,740
Not saying you should just throw them in there, but like, do you think they should be in there?

1725
01:20:16,740 --> 01:20:20,340
Because like, at that point, it's not garbage minutes, but you're looking forward to see

1726
01:20:20,340 --> 01:20:22,780
if he's still got it, if he can still move up and down the court.

1727
01:20:22,780 --> 01:20:25,340
And as you know, I know there's a lot of variables, right?

1728
01:20:25,340 --> 01:20:28,180
Obviously, LeBron and JJ Redd just talked about this.

1729
01:20:28,180 --> 01:20:31,840
You can't be up 20 with seven minutes left in today's era because you could still lose

1730
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:32,840
that game.

1731
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:33,840
We get that.

1732
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,220
And there's a lot of other factors.

1733
01:20:35,220 --> 01:20:40,700
But I was thinking, I don't know, if you're not looking at it from a team aspect, which

1734
01:20:40,700 --> 01:20:45,220
you can see in practice and how it actually works out on that side of things, then I don't

1735
01:20:45,220 --> 01:20:46,220
know.

1736
01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:51,580
If you're up 25 points with this left, can you not get three, four, five minutes?

1737
01:20:51,580 --> 01:20:53,140
You know what I mean?

1738
01:20:53,140 --> 01:20:56,100
Yeah, I think three to four is reasonable.

1739
01:20:56,100 --> 01:20:59,480
I think 10 is too much only because he just got there.

1740
01:20:59,480 --> 01:21:02,660
As a coach, you risk losing the team.

1741
01:21:02,660 --> 01:21:05,900
If you give a guy just minutes who just got here and there's guys who've been busting

1742
01:21:05,900 --> 01:21:08,480
their butt, who've been working, who've been grinding, who've been doing all these things

1743
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:13,540
all year, and this is your time to reward them to see what you have, to see who you

1744
01:21:13,540 --> 01:21:17,900
could potentially use in the playoffs and the play-in series for them.

1745
01:21:17,900 --> 01:21:19,660
All these things you have to tinker with, right?

1746
01:21:19,660 --> 01:21:20,980
But I want to see what IT has.

1747
01:21:20,980 --> 01:21:23,740
So I'm going to throw him out there in the mix and I'm going to talk to him before I

1748
01:21:23,740 --> 01:21:25,020
do it because he's a vet.

1749
01:21:25,020 --> 01:21:28,140
I want to know, like, hey, I want to get you some game action.

1750
01:21:28,140 --> 01:21:29,460
We're up by a lot.

1751
01:21:29,460 --> 01:21:33,940
I don't want you to feel disrespected because I know your career you had, how you feel about

1752
01:21:33,940 --> 01:21:39,340
going in there giving me a good four or five minutes strong if we can continue to maintain

1753
01:21:39,340 --> 01:21:40,340
this lead.

1754
01:21:40,340 --> 01:21:44,380
And based on his energy and his effort, whatever he say, that could be the difference between

1755
01:21:44,380 --> 01:21:48,420
him getting another 10 days added to his contract or that could be the difference between me

1756
01:21:48,420 --> 01:21:50,980
being like, we tried, this ain't going to work.

1757
01:21:50,980 --> 01:21:53,340
So if it's anything other than, yeah, coach, I'm going to get out there, I'm going to do

1758
01:21:53,340 --> 01:21:57,060
it because when you're in a 10 day contract, you don't have no leverage.

1759
01:21:57,060 --> 01:21:59,140
You at Day Mercy, you just lucky to be there.

1760
01:21:59,140 --> 01:22:00,140
And I think that's his mindset.

1761
01:22:00,140 --> 01:22:02,820
Like he been wanting the opportunity, the opportunity is here.

1762
01:22:02,820 --> 01:22:05,660
Now you have to deal with whatever role you get.

1763
01:22:05,660 --> 01:22:08,980
You've been working, you've been grinding, you've been saying you want to do this, you

1764
01:22:08,980 --> 01:22:09,980
want to do that.

1765
01:22:09,980 --> 01:22:13,780
And he's been talking to kids, doing certain stuff, sharing his experiences.

1766
01:22:13,780 --> 01:22:17,640
So you can tell mentally, I feel like he ready for that.

1767
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:21,580
So I wouldn't give him 10 just because he just got there and I want him to earn his

1768
01:22:21,580 --> 01:22:24,380
keep earn his way and I want to reward the guys who already been there.

1769
01:22:24,380 --> 01:22:29,660
Because anytime you get up by that amount of points, you know, it's not a great opportunity

1770
01:22:29,660 --> 01:22:32,420
throughout the nights to continue to play your bench.

1771
01:22:32,420 --> 01:22:34,940
And this is the best time to do it because you're up so much.

1772
01:22:34,940 --> 01:22:38,300
But for three to four or five minutes, like, you know, you got to test that out.

1773
01:22:38,300 --> 01:22:40,340
If not, why is he even there?

1774
01:22:40,340 --> 01:22:41,500
That was that was my thing too.

1775
01:22:41,500 --> 01:22:43,660
So what if it's not just brainstorming?

1776
01:22:43,660 --> 01:22:48,380
What if it's not 10 minutes in a game, but more or less 10 minutes minimum over the course

1777
01:22:48,380 --> 01:22:49,380
of that 10 day?

1778
01:22:49,380 --> 01:22:50,980
Because that's normally three games or so, right?

1779
01:22:50,980 --> 01:22:56,420
So we're giving them about three minutes and 20 seconds per game during that time.

1780
01:22:56,420 --> 01:22:57,820
Do you think that'd be enough?

1781
01:22:57,820 --> 01:22:59,540
I think they should scale it.

1782
01:22:59,540 --> 01:23:03,980
So see, you know, give them three, four minutes, give them a run, see how the team plays, you

1783
01:23:03,980 --> 01:23:05,860
know, how was the plus minus?

1784
01:23:05,860 --> 01:23:06,860
How was the game flow?

1785
01:23:06,860 --> 01:23:07,860
The things fit?

1786
01:23:07,860 --> 01:23:10,600
You know, does he know how to plays or things going seamlessly?

1787
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:14,420
And then the next game, you know, maybe you can take it up a little bit more, you know,

1788
01:23:14,420 --> 01:23:17,580
maybe instead of four minutes, maybe it might be seven or eight minutes.

1789
01:23:17,580 --> 01:23:21,260
And if he if he's in the plans for you, you know, potentially in a play in and for you

1790
01:23:21,260 --> 01:23:24,180
to make a run, this is only that's the only reason I would do it.

1791
01:23:24,180 --> 01:23:30,100
And then if things go well there, then the third game, I would take it a little bit more.

1792
01:23:30,100 --> 01:23:31,600
And then we would know what we have.

1793
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:35,580
And he would probably be in that 12 to 15 minute range, you know, just seeing what I

1794
01:23:35,580 --> 01:23:39,380
could get if we got to that point where he was somebody I could utilize.

1795
01:23:39,380 --> 01:23:44,700
Because I mean, Bradley Bill is probably going to play 38 minutes.

1796
01:23:44,700 --> 01:23:48,980
Brian Booker is going to play 38 minutes and KD is probably going to play 38 minutes.

1797
01:23:48,980 --> 01:23:52,660
So there's not like a ton of minutes and he can't really play KD's minutes.

1798
01:23:52,660 --> 01:23:53,860
It's a size difference.

1799
01:23:53,860 --> 01:23:58,180
He really got to play minutes at the one unless you pair him with a tall guard.

1800
01:23:58,180 --> 01:24:01,240
So you know, there's not like a ton of time available.

1801
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:05,060
And I'm sure they want to use that big three together and then staggered eight minutes.

1802
01:24:05,060 --> 01:24:08,700
And then when they stagger them, where maybe one or two are out there, they're going to

1803
01:24:08,700 --> 01:24:09,700
run the offense through them.

1804
01:24:09,700 --> 01:24:12,460
And then when the other one comes in, they're going to run offense to him to try to keep

1805
01:24:12,460 --> 01:24:15,780
everybody's touches, you know, afloat and to keep everybody involved in the game.

1806
01:24:15,780 --> 01:24:20,420
So even if he's out there, he's not really going to be able to be IT because they have

1807
01:24:20,420 --> 01:24:23,420
three very dominant guys.

1808
01:24:23,420 --> 01:24:26,580
Not only that, but you can't forget about how great Grayson Allen is playing as well.

1809
01:24:26,580 --> 01:24:28,580
So you got you got to trick him in there.

1810
01:24:28,580 --> 01:24:29,940
So that's all I'm saying.

1811
01:24:29,940 --> 01:24:32,260
So whose minutes do you take?

1812
01:24:32,260 --> 01:24:34,300
That problem isn't should I T play?

1813
01:24:34,300 --> 01:24:39,500
The problem is who shouldn't play.

1814
01:24:39,500 --> 01:24:43,620
So the last one I got for you is clearly you've had a great career, like it's still currently

1815
01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:46,100
going has been very successful for you.

1816
01:24:46,100 --> 01:24:50,940
But I asked like, how do you like in your opinion, like how do you describe what success

1817
01:24:50,940 --> 01:24:52,880
is like what is success for you?

1818
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:58,240
For me, success is maximizing what God gave you right?

1819
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:00,340
Every day, taking that gift.

1820
01:25:00,340 --> 01:25:07,060
It doesn't matter if it's academics, if it's art, if it's music, if it's taking it every

1821
01:25:07,060 --> 01:25:13,020
day and working on it and by you working on it, by you respecting it, you know, it shows

1822
01:25:13,020 --> 01:25:14,540
that you're grateful for the gift.

1823
01:25:14,540 --> 01:25:15,700
You know, you don't waste that gift.

1824
01:25:15,700 --> 01:25:16,700
You know, he blessed you.

1825
01:25:16,700 --> 01:25:20,940
He chose you to do this, whatever it is you were supposed to do in life.

1826
01:25:20,940 --> 01:25:26,780
So you owe it to him to maximize that and to take it to whatever level you can.

1827
01:25:26,780 --> 01:25:33,940
And then after doing that with that gift, I think you need to do impact, you know, to

1828
01:25:33,940 --> 01:25:40,940
other people, whether that's something given back, could be financially, could be preferably

1829
01:25:40,940 --> 01:25:46,300
also time, energy, effort, help and others, you know, because, you know, he bestowed all

1830
01:25:46,300 --> 01:25:49,220
these things upon you and put you in a position to be where you at.

1831
01:25:49,220 --> 01:25:53,000
And then you did your part, you worked, you grinded, you put forth the effort, you spent

1832
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:54,000
all that time.

1833
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,220
So, you know, it's kind of like yin and yang, y'all both working together, y'all need each

1834
01:25:57,220 --> 01:25:58,220
other.

1835
01:25:58,220 --> 01:26:01,300
And then now you're able to pass that on.

1836
01:26:01,300 --> 01:26:06,220
And I think that's true success when you can help others get to where they want to get

1837
01:26:06,220 --> 01:26:07,700
and have a positive impact on people.

1838
01:26:07,700 --> 01:26:12,740
Like when people come across you or they meet you, you know, they should feel, you know,

1839
01:26:12,740 --> 01:26:16,940
something special, whether it's, you know, just your energy, just your aura, just your

1840
01:26:16,940 --> 01:26:21,660
positivity, just your upliftingness, you speaking life into people.

1841
01:26:21,660 --> 01:26:23,340
Like to me, that's success.

1842
01:26:23,340 --> 01:26:25,220
It's not about how much money you make, none of that.

1843
01:26:25,220 --> 01:26:27,560
It's not about how, what level you get to.

1844
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:31,860
It's about whatever you're good at, maximize that, push that, and then use that gift to

1845
01:26:31,860 --> 01:26:33,500
help others.

1846
01:26:33,500 --> 01:26:35,700
And that's what I've tried to do.

1847
01:26:35,700 --> 01:26:36,940
And I think I've been successful with that.

1848
01:26:36,940 --> 01:26:38,660
And I'm still trying to continue to work on it.

1849
01:26:38,660 --> 01:26:39,660
I think the work's not done.

1850
01:26:39,660 --> 01:26:44,620
You know, as long as I have, you know, a breath in my lungs, I'm going to continue to try

1851
01:26:44,620 --> 01:26:45,620
to push that narrative.

1852
01:26:45,620 --> 01:26:48,840
And, you know, sometimes it might be the young guys on my team.

1853
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:50,260
Sometimes it could be friends, family members.

1854
01:26:50,260 --> 01:26:52,180
Sometimes it could be something totally outside of basketball.

1855
01:26:52,180 --> 01:26:55,020
But, you know, I try to speak life into everybody and I try to help.

1856
01:26:55,020 --> 01:26:58,900
And I want to see everybody eat because, you know, there's more than enough food out there

1857
01:26:58,900 --> 01:26:59,900
for everybody.

1858
01:26:59,900 --> 01:27:02,380
You know, everybody can be successful in their own lane.

1859
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:05,220
You know, your success doesn't take away from me.

1860
01:27:05,220 --> 01:27:06,220
Mine doesn't take away from you.

1861
01:27:06,220 --> 01:27:08,060
You know, we can all be in this together.

1862
01:27:08,060 --> 01:27:10,180
So that's true success.

1863
01:27:10,180 --> 01:27:12,060
And I think that's where happiness lies.

1864
01:27:12,060 --> 01:27:16,140
Because if you do those things, you're giving back and you're making that impact, how can

1865
01:27:16,140 --> 01:27:17,820
you not be happy with yourself?

1866
01:27:17,820 --> 01:27:22,380
Obviously, with all the success that you have, have had and are currently having, you're

1867
01:27:22,380 --> 01:27:24,620
on that back end stretch of your careers, right?

1868
01:27:24,620 --> 01:27:28,380
So what's in the plans for the moment you take off that jersey?

1869
01:27:28,380 --> 01:27:32,140
So I'm torn between two things.

1870
01:27:32,140 --> 01:27:36,580
I'm always put the family first and, you know, take care of the kids and, you know, spend

1871
01:27:36,580 --> 01:27:37,780
time with wifey and stuff.

1872
01:27:37,780 --> 01:27:42,340
But I'm very interested in still being around the game.

1873
01:27:42,340 --> 01:27:47,900
But I don't want it to affect my family dynamic just because I've been away so much.

1874
01:27:47,900 --> 01:27:50,340
You know, and I get to see my immediate family all the time.

1875
01:27:50,340 --> 01:27:54,260
But what about my extended, you know, I don't get to see my parents as much as I like, you

1876
01:27:54,260 --> 01:27:58,220
know, my cousins, my aunts, my uncles, you know, life is short.

1877
01:27:58,220 --> 01:28:02,740
But you know, with that said, you know, I'm curious about going into the broadcasting

1878
01:28:02,740 --> 01:28:03,740
industry.

1879
01:28:03,740 --> 01:28:06,820
I've already been, you know, getting my reps, getting my practice, being around the game,

1880
01:28:06,820 --> 01:28:07,820
talking about it.

1881
01:28:07,820 --> 01:28:11,500
You know, I want to be someone who articulates the game, teaches the game, you know, but

1882
01:28:11,500 --> 01:28:13,420
also, you know, let you know what's going on.

1883
01:28:13,420 --> 01:28:15,900
You know, I want to be, I want to be different.

1884
01:28:15,900 --> 01:28:19,740
You know, if I choose that route, you know, I want to be someone, I want to be one of

1885
01:28:19,740 --> 01:28:22,860
those old guys who hate, you know, the young guys making all this money.

1886
01:28:22,860 --> 01:28:26,220
They're playing like, I want to be somebody who was like, who's positive.

1887
01:28:26,220 --> 01:28:30,300
Like, you know, I watched Alan Iverson, how he talks about the young generation and I

1888
01:28:30,300 --> 01:28:31,300
just love it.

1889
01:28:31,300 --> 01:28:34,220
Like he speaks nothing but positivity and that's something I can get behind.

1890
01:28:34,220 --> 01:28:36,140
And that doesn't mean I won't critique you.

1891
01:28:36,140 --> 01:28:39,060
That doesn't mean I won't let you know when you didn't play at your level or you didn't

1892
01:28:39,060 --> 01:28:40,060
do something.

1893
01:28:40,060 --> 01:28:42,700
But I'm not going to use it as like a platform to bash people.

1894
01:28:42,700 --> 01:28:44,780
You know, I'm going to just try to stay true.

1895
01:28:44,780 --> 01:28:47,820
And I know it's not easy because they won't clicks, but you know, that's, I want to be

1896
01:28:47,820 --> 01:28:48,820
a purist.

1897
01:28:48,820 --> 01:28:53,340
And then secondly, people have been trying to get me to go into it, but I just feel like

1898
01:28:53,340 --> 01:28:55,340
it's too time demanding and it's coaching.

1899
01:28:55,340 --> 01:29:00,340
You know, I know it's just, I am with this air.

1900
01:29:00,340 --> 01:29:02,940
Like you can't really coach kids like you used to.

1901
01:29:02,940 --> 01:29:05,700
They'll transfer on you immediately.

1902
01:29:05,700 --> 01:29:08,380
You have to lead with money.

1903
01:29:08,380 --> 01:29:11,740
Everybody thinks they kid deserves everything at once.

1904
01:29:11,740 --> 01:29:16,460
No one wants to take the long route, you know, to take the detour.

1905
01:29:16,460 --> 01:29:18,100
No one wants to get it out the mud.

1906
01:29:18,100 --> 01:29:21,580
You know, they want to play right away as a freshman, you know, which was not the typical

1907
01:29:21,580 --> 01:29:22,580
way that things started.

1908
01:29:22,580 --> 01:29:26,740
You know, imagine if, you know, with Michael Jordan be Michael Jordan, you know, if he,

1909
01:29:26,740 --> 01:29:30,460
you know, have maybe a minimized role in North Carolina until he hit that last shot, you

1910
01:29:30,460 --> 01:29:34,300
know, he's not the only one, you know, other guys, you know, took a long route and they

1911
01:29:34,300 --> 01:29:39,580
became great players, you know, or they was okay players and freshmen and they grew, you

1912
01:29:39,580 --> 01:29:42,020
know, Kawhi Leonard, you know, like different guys like that.

1913
01:29:42,020 --> 01:29:45,740
So I just feel like those first couple of years in LA.

1914
01:29:45,740 --> 01:29:52,140
So like, I feel like when I be too blunt, when I be too rough, would it be too hard?

1915
01:29:52,140 --> 01:29:54,380
I don't want to like kiss players butt.

1916
01:29:54,380 --> 01:29:55,380
Like I want to be nice.

1917
01:29:55,380 --> 01:29:56,380
I'm going to uplift you.

1918
01:29:56,380 --> 01:30:00,180
I want to help you grow as a man, but I can't do that if I can't coach you.

1919
01:30:00,180 --> 01:30:02,460
So you know, that's, that's the tough part.

1920
01:30:02,460 --> 01:30:06,620
You know, coaching pros is even worse because they make too much money.

1921
01:30:06,620 --> 01:30:08,380
They already, they already think they know everything.

1922
01:30:08,380 --> 01:30:12,340
So at least a college kid, maybe you can help mold, but if you too hard on them, you'll

1923
01:30:12,340 --> 01:30:13,340
quit, they'll transfer.

1924
01:30:13,340 --> 01:30:16,020
And the portal's open and somebody's going to take them.

1925
01:30:16,020 --> 01:30:18,940
So those are the two aspects I'm thinking about.

1926
01:30:18,940 --> 01:30:21,100
You know, obviously like I'm big in real estate.

1927
01:30:21,100 --> 01:30:24,380
You know, I have a few franchises and you know, stuff like that.

1928
01:30:24,380 --> 01:30:28,540
So those things kind of flowing already going, you know, I have a good management team and

1929
01:30:28,540 --> 01:30:34,620
you know, I kind of keep my flow on that, but I'm trying to, trying to do something

1930
01:30:34,620 --> 01:30:39,660
else where I can, you know, have fulfillment of still being around the game, but also where

1931
01:30:39,660 --> 01:30:40,660
I can help others.

1932
01:30:40,660 --> 01:30:46,580
Like, you know, God gave me a lot of experiences and blessed me with, you know, the platform

1933
01:30:46,580 --> 01:30:51,580
and the knowledge to not only to know basketball, but to continue to grow it and learn from

1934
01:30:51,580 --> 01:30:55,780
so many different countries, different people, different players, you know, 14 years in,

1935
01:30:55,780 --> 01:31:00,620
you know, God willing, I can continue to go more, but I just feel like it would be selfish

1936
01:31:00,620 --> 01:31:03,340
to me if I didn't find a way to give some of that back.

1937
01:31:03,340 --> 01:31:04,340
So that's my plan.

1938
01:31:04,340 --> 01:31:07,140
So whether that's through broadcasts and their coaching, we shall see.

1939
01:31:07,140 --> 01:31:10,940
You know, my wife likes broadcasting better because she thinks I'll be home more.

1940
01:31:10,940 --> 01:31:13,540
So, and I have to agree with her.

1941
01:31:13,540 --> 01:31:40,540
It does look that way.