WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120 that has that's why I throw history out because 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:06.160 I can't believe I just said that because there's 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:08.339 there's no there's never been a time like this 00:00:08.339 --> 00:00:11.220 where buyers had and just general public had 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:14.419 so much knowledge at their fingertips of the 00:00:14.419 --> 00:00:16.320 real estate market and with that I don't think 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.750 there's any going back Pandora is out and Ever 00:00:19.750 --> 00:00:22.289 wonder what really happens behind the scenes 00:00:22.289 --> 00:00:24.629 in construction, real estate and development? 00:00:25.289 --> 00:00:27.489 We pull back the curtain on the new home construction 00:00:27.489 --> 00:00:30.309 industry, the real estate market and the trends 00:00:30.309 --> 00:00:33.340 shaping it all. Discover the stories, insights, 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:35.460 and expertise behind the process of building 00:00:35.460 --> 00:00:38.880 a new home. Join us for Trust the Process podcast 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.719 and let's build something great together. Welcome 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:44.219 back to Trust the Process podcast where we talk 00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:48.020 about the housing industry, new homes, and everything 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:52.039 that falls in between. Wanted to talk today about 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:57.700 some cycles and the history and trends and kind 00:00:57.700 --> 00:01:01.640 of what we're seeing in the market. So some comebacks 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:04.480 over time and things that have historically proven 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.280 successful, not successful. Where are we at taking 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.519 the trends that we're seeing today and sort of 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:11.480 applying them to the historical value that we 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:14.879 know. And our resident expert happens to be a 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:17.599 history buff. So take us there. Tell us some 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:19.519 more about what we're seeing and historically 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:21.799 what we know about the cycles that are presenting 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:24.519 themselves now and where they've been presented 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:28.120 in the past. The urge to make a feudal England. 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:33.299 Go, go, go. Go ahead and do it. Land ownership 00:01:33.299 --> 00:01:38.340 started. Okay. Well, okay. We are in such unprecedented. 00:01:38.500 --> 00:01:41.120 The market's never going to be the same when 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:45.700 you look back more than 10 years. The rules and 00:01:45.700 --> 00:01:48.000 the logic that you could apply to the real estate 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:51.859 market in 2025 versus like, let's say what I'm 00:01:51.859 --> 00:01:54.900 getting at is pre -Zillow, pre -third party syndication 00:01:54.900 --> 00:01:58.420 sites, pre the commoditization of housing where 00:01:58.420 --> 00:02:01.420 everyone kind of is at least somewhat informed 00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:03.680 on the market. I don't want to say everyone, 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.920 but a lot of people are at least somewhat informed. 00:02:05.939 --> 00:02:07.500 Or they have a resource that's readily available. 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:10.280 At least they have, yeah, a way that kind of... 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.759 Yeah. So to say it more concise is that there's 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.319 so much transparency now in the real estate market, 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:19.919 it's... It's gonna be hard to apply the logic 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:22.819 and the thought processes of pre -2010, let's 00:02:22.819 --> 00:02:25.800 call it, where there was a time when you had 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.840 to go on www .Zillow .com just to get to Zillow, 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:30.159 which didn't even have the kind of transparency 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.360 it has. Now it's an app, I'm thinking I think 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.099 it was 2008, 2009, and it didn't syndicate from 00:02:35.099 --> 00:02:38.120 the MLS. We started syndicating to the MLS by 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.479 default, I wanna say in around 2014 or 15, and 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:44.419 we as brokers would have to opt in. Do you wanna 00:02:44.419 --> 00:02:45.780 opt in? Now you have to opt. That syndicates 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:48.000 from other channels now too. You've got BDX platforms, 00:02:48.099 --> 00:02:50.020 you've got Zom, you've got Livable, I mean all 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:53.919 of those others, it's all streamed out to the 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.939 masses. Basically Zillow which owns truly us 00:02:55.939 --> 00:02:58.180 and then realtor .com and homes .com. I mean 00:02:58.180 --> 00:03:00.740 there's really very few players in that space 00:03:00.740 --> 00:03:02.379 and they get a lot of unique visitors, they get 00:03:02.379 --> 00:03:04.960 a lot of eyeballs and that's a good way to gauge 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:08.199 the market nowadays to say, okay, we're in a 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:11.479 bit of a buyer's market in many cities, a high 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:14.780 growth market, cities, Phoenix, Las Vegas, most 00:03:14.780 --> 00:03:20.150 of Texas, Florida. Atlanta is a struggling, I 00:03:20.150 --> 00:03:22.389 shouldn't say struggling, but it's a pretty intense 00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:24.449 buyer's market right now in many of the outer 00:03:24.449 --> 00:03:26.530 ring suburbs, because Atlanta sprawls so much. 00:03:26.590 --> 00:03:28.889 You have a lot of exurbs, a lot of places that 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:31.050 may be only boomed when the market was really 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:33.669 tight. And now that they're not booming, it's 00:03:33.669 --> 00:03:36.620 kind of okay. What happens there? Places like 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:38.780 Vegas and Phoenix were closed market. We don't 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:40.680 have suburbs. We're kind of one giant suburb 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:43.240 So yeah, we might have a little bit of a softening 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:44.780 just because we're a high -growth market But 00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:47.060 ultimately there's nowhere to go if you want 00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:50.099 to live in Las Vegas you live in Las Vegas. I 00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:52.560 mean, you can go to Kennesaw. I mean, you can 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.060 live in... Oh, sometimes probably two hours from 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.479 one city to the other. We don't really sprawl. 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:59.180 We look like we sprawl if you take a flight into 00:03:59.180 --> 00:04:01.800 Las Vegas. But versus other East Coast metros, 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:03.900 how far is Philly? Philly sprawls all the way 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:05.639 into New Jersey. There's areas of New Jersey 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:07.539 that are Philadelphia suburbs, not New York City 00:04:07.539 --> 00:04:10.319 suburbs. That's how sprawling it is on the East 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.039 Coast and maybe in some parts of California too. 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.600 So I feel pretty optimistic. But anyway, moral 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:18.339 of the story is a lot of the growth markets are 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:21.660 in Kind of touching and flirting with buyer market 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:25.160 tear buyers market territory But what you should 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:27.500 be looking at is what is the overall interest 00:04:27.500 --> 00:04:30.060 and appetite in real estate? For the general 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.279 consumer and still really high Zillow has great 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:34.500 traffic share prices doing pretty well once I 00:04:34.500 --> 00:04:37.600 got out of flipping homes They you know, they've 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:39.759 had a bit of a rebound that did not bode well 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:43.910 for them, but you look at there's a lot of interest 00:04:43.910 --> 00:04:46.290 in real estate and resources and ways for people 00:04:46.290 --> 00:04:49.170 to channel that interest and look at third party 00:04:49.170 --> 00:04:51.470 sites like Zillow and Julia and get an idea of 00:04:51.470 --> 00:04:53.569 the market and sales history and property taxes 00:04:53.569 --> 00:04:56.189 and HOA and think about how would you have known 00:04:56.189 --> 00:04:59.089 what an HOA price was before Zillow? There was 00:04:59.089 --> 00:05:01.750 no central repository that gave you that type 00:05:01.750 --> 00:05:04.550 of data that you could get on your phone. And 00:05:04.550 --> 00:05:06.970 that's just one touch point how many of those 00:05:06.970 --> 00:05:09.740 are there. Right I can look at Properties in 00:05:09.740 --> 00:05:11.519 Texas because it's fun to because it looks so 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.540 different than Las Vegas. Oh, that's a beautiful 00:05:13.540 --> 00:05:15.959 house for 900 ,000. I'd be 1 .5 million here 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.019 Oh, wait a minute. The taxes are $27 ,000 a year. 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:21.500 They're 12 ,000 here the little things like that 00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:24.319 Yeah, kind of all that's available now. Yes, 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.040 exactly And I think that that because of all 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.639 that empowerment sales history neighbors sales 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.759 history Well, we like this home Last time I sold 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:35.600 was in a sold from the builder ten years ago. 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:37.339 Oh, wait a minute four homes have sold in the 00:05:37.339 --> 00:05:39.490 last few months on this very street, and this 00:05:39.490 --> 00:05:40.649 one had this pool, and this one didn't have a 00:05:40.649 --> 00:05:41.810 pool, and this one had this finishes, and this 00:05:41.810 --> 00:05:42.970 one has this pool. And you could even scroll 00:05:42.970 --> 00:05:44.769 through the house and see this looks like that, 00:05:44.810 --> 00:05:46.689 that looks like this, ours has this, that just 00:05:46.689 --> 00:05:49.149 didn't have, and yeah. So I think in many ways 00:05:49.149 --> 00:05:52.610 that has, that's why I throw history out, because, 00:05:53.029 --> 00:05:56.110 I can't believe I just said that, because there's 00:05:56.110 --> 00:05:58.660 no, there's never been a time like this. where 00:05:58.660 --> 00:06:02.139 buyers and just general public had so much knowledge 00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:04.939 at their fingertips of the real estate market. 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.720 And with that, I don't think there's any going 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:11.339 back. Pandora is out. And in some ways, it's 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:14.920 good. I feel that it adds a lot of liquidity 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.420 to the market. It keeps people interested and 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:20.160 engaged in the market. Real estate is fun for 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:22.319 a lot of people. Looking at homes is fun online. 00:06:22.980 --> 00:06:25.439 It stokes an interest in people. It kind of keeps 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.980 the flames of homeownership desire. going and 00:06:28.980 --> 00:06:33.480 maybe is responsible for the growth markets and 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.939 what we've done in the last 10 years because 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:38.660 if you're sitting in traffic and you were on 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:40.519 the northeastern seaboard and it's rained for 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.509 five days in a row and your house looks dingy 00:06:44.509 --> 00:06:46.529 and your boss is pissing you out and you go, 00:06:46.790 --> 00:06:48.629 let me look at real estate in Florida. Let me 00:06:48.629 --> 00:06:50.029 look at real estate in Las Vegas. Let me look 00:06:50.029 --> 00:06:52.069 at real estate. Maybe make some major move and 00:06:52.069 --> 00:06:53.490 you kind of get your foot over there and get 00:06:53.490 --> 00:06:56.029 your feet wet before you even go. And maybe that 00:06:56.029 --> 00:06:58.370 online platform engages you enough to say, you 00:06:58.370 --> 00:07:00.310 know what, maybe we should consider that move 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:02.250 or we're going to retire. Where do we want to 00:07:02.250 --> 00:07:03.870 look? Well, let's compare all the cities. You 00:07:03.870 --> 00:07:06.129 can do a lot of that work from the comfort of 00:07:06.129 --> 00:07:08.790 your own sofa. How did people do that before? 00:07:08.949 --> 00:07:13.209 I guess you had to call an agent. I remember 00:07:13.209 --> 00:07:16.170 moving in her interstate with my parents probably 00:07:16.170 --> 00:07:19.170 20 years ago and my mom looked up real estate 00:07:19.170 --> 00:07:22.709 agents and called a real estate agent and he 00:07:22.709 --> 00:07:25.930 at that time there was email so that she he would 00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:28.269 email her listings and then it was like okay 00:07:28.269 --> 00:07:30.389 we want to be where in the city would be a good 00:07:30.389 --> 00:07:33.430 place so they're usually three to seven photos 00:07:33.430 --> 00:07:36.019 of a listing Any given listing in the MLS, the 00:07:36.019 --> 00:07:38.139 MLS was limited at one point to 10 photos, but 00:07:38.139 --> 00:07:40.459 agents didn't even, there was no industry of 00:07:40.459 --> 00:07:42.139 professional real estate photography back then. 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:43.620 I mean, just think about how much the industry 00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:47.360 has changed so that I feel that we have higher 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.779 peaks and higher goalies. So I feel that our 00:07:50.779 --> 00:07:53.670 market is... more liquid so they have more volatility 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:56.410 because there's just more liquidity and buyers 00:07:56.410 --> 00:07:58.329 are also more informed to say wow this feels 00:07:58.329 --> 00:08:00.449 like there's a lot of homes for selling the zip 00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:03.230 code whereas before an agent could kind of spin 00:08:03.230 --> 00:08:06.949 the market however suited them and suited the 00:08:06.949 --> 00:08:09.250 narrative that they wanted to create and the 00:08:09.250 --> 00:08:13.750 reality around it so now buyers agents have been 00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:16.550 completely disarmed with that and now buyers 00:08:16.550 --> 00:08:19.069 know many times more than the agent. And they're 00:08:19.069 --> 00:08:20.810 more resourceful and they've done more research. 00:08:20.810 --> 00:08:22.250 They're more interested in it. How interested 00:08:22.250 --> 00:08:24.889 are you when you're one of 15 clients that wants 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:26.930 to spend $700 ,000 to $900 ,000? Just kidding, 00:08:27.089 --> 00:08:29.149 she's very interested in everything. So you get 00:08:29.149 --> 00:08:32.149 a more informed buyer. So really the agents have 00:08:32.149 --> 00:08:35.090 had to up their game in order to keep up with 00:08:35.090 --> 00:08:37.330 the information buyers are available. Think about 00:08:37.330 --> 00:08:39.090 it, this is all that buyer is thinking about. 00:08:39.190 --> 00:08:42.070 Generally if a buyer is in the mood to buy, this 00:08:42.070 --> 00:08:43.789 is all they think about. They're probably spending 00:08:43.789 --> 00:08:46.679 three to four hours a day on Zillow. hour in 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.200 the, you know, hour at night before bed, 15 minutes 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.080 here, 15 minutes there. I mean, you can add up 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:53.639 very quickly. And I know that because when I 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.460 was looking to buy a second home in another state 00:08:55.460 --> 00:08:58.159 a couple years ago. It's all I did, just trolling 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.440 it all the time. Just, okay, oh, I already know 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:01.980 this neighborhood. I know I don't like that neighborhood. 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:03.840 And then you go out there and put all the pieces 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.600 together. And you go, oh, wow, okay, this, okay, 00:09:06.740 --> 00:09:08.299 definitely don't want this anymore. I'm not going 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:09.980 to look there. I'm not going to look there. And 00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:11.559 then he's really holding it. You know, where 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:13.519 I have a client who I know I'm taking really 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:15.799 good care of. I'm hand -holding them, making 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.840 sure that their, you know, needs are met. But 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.299 I have... Other applications and I have other 00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:23.200 clients and they're like, Hey, did you see this 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.299 one? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, no, I didn't, 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.100 but you know, good on you. Yeah. Good on you. 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:30.519 Right. But they're, they, yeah, they're, they're 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:32.980 doing that work for themselves, which is good. 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.259 And it keeps them engaged. And then I feel that 00:09:35.259 --> 00:09:37.860 I noticed it when I was working my brokerage 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:40.799 business over 12 years and I don't do too much 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.620 of it anymore, but I noticed that buyers, I had, 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:47.080 I felt a title shift around 2017, 2018 where 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.399 Buyers were routinely going out with me for one 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:53.600 day. And they're making a move in one day. In 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:54.879 a day. Making a decision in a day. Because they 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.659 already knew. Yep. Like when I bought, I went 00:09:57.659 --> 00:10:00.480 out there one weekend. And I actually only spent 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:02.679 one half of that weekend even house hunting. 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.399 The rest I just spent in town. Yeah. You know, 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:07.559 so I, because I knew. Learning about the town. 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:10.039 Yeah. Yeah. Feeling it. Okay, this is really 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.399 cool. But you knew what side of town you wanted 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:14.139 to be on. You knew what size was available. I 00:10:14.139 --> 00:10:16.320 knew all the inventory. Nothing was a surprise. 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.580 So all I had to do was put it all together and 00:10:18.580 --> 00:10:20.259 say, wow, this is really great. That's what I 00:10:20.259 --> 00:10:22.659 want. And I jumped. I think we saw four houses, 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.529 if that. So I mean, it was, but I, I was. I've 00:10:26.529 --> 00:10:28.590 been on that other side. I was in my agent's 00:10:28.590 --> 00:10:31.330 shoes many, many, many times, especially like 00:10:31.330 --> 00:10:34.990 post -2018, post -2017 when the syndication feeds 00:10:34.990 --> 00:10:37.549 all lined up and all the data was pretty much 00:10:37.549 --> 00:10:40.789 uniform across all the trust in Zillow and third 00:10:40.789 --> 00:10:42.889 -party sites went way up because it used to be, 00:10:43.070 --> 00:10:44.250 well, and who knows what Zillow says, because 00:10:44.250 --> 00:10:47.009 their info was many times outdated. Homes would 00:10:47.009 --> 00:10:49.250 be on there that had long since sold or homes 00:10:49.250 --> 00:10:51.679 would be on there that... had been pulled or 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.559 weren't on there but were on the market. They 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:55.320 weren't showing themselves so they just never 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:57.960 could trust the information and now they can. 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:00.940 And buyers are very, very informed. So I feel 00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:03.299 that that's overall a net positive for the real 00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:06.519 estate market that keeps buyers engaged. On the 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:09.059 flip side, buyers get more and more spooked. 00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:11.879 With more information and real estate consistently 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:14.480 making headlines, you can't watch it without 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.620 housing coming up. You can't. At least every 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:19.120 other day. More turmoil in the housing market. 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:23.259 It just creates this narrative of what they think 00:11:23.259 --> 00:11:26.779 was the last thing that Becky and Squawkbox said. 00:11:27.059 --> 00:11:29.100 And social media even. There are things in the 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.460 feed and I can't tell you how many clients, friends, 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.000 neighbors, colleagues will send me things and 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.480 you open up the social media inbox and you've 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.299 got all these things. Did you see this article? 00:11:39.419 --> 00:11:43.360 What about this? And it's all interesting information. 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:46.279 It's almost like everyone has a real estate podcast. 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:51.350 I know, right? Microphones are too cheap. But 00:11:51.350 --> 00:11:52.909 there's just a lot of info out there. There is. 00:11:52.990 --> 00:11:54.429 And that's why we try to have a little bit of 00:11:54.429 --> 00:11:55.990 a unique niche here. We talk a lot about new 00:11:55.990 --> 00:11:58.649 home construction and building. We pepper in 00:11:58.649 --> 00:12:00.750 a lot of real estate, but we try to... It's hard 00:12:00.750 --> 00:12:02.570 not to, because we sell the homes at the end. 00:12:02.669 --> 00:12:04.970 I think that those two go hand in hand really 00:12:04.970 --> 00:12:07.210 well together. Right? We're not building them 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:09.350 to keep. Right, exactly. We've got to sell them. 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:11.889 So we have to keep ourselves well informed and 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:13.610 make sure that we have our thumb on that mark 00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:15.669 and know exactly what the housing industry as 00:12:15.669 --> 00:12:18.450 a whole needs and requires. Right. And to touch 00:12:18.450 --> 00:12:20.240 on some history, because I... I had to get it 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:22.679 in there. But if you think about the inventory 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.899 we have right now, not us as trust home builders, 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:28.820 but the inventory any given city has is a representation 00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:30.720 of what the market was doing at that time. Homes 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.159 built in the 80s look and feel different, generally 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.659 smaller. We actually talked about this earlier 00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:38.480 today on a separate call that for the first time 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.240 in many markets, new homes are actually smaller 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:44.279 than many resale homes. And prices are lower. 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:47.000 There's that idea that a resale home might be 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.100 less than a new build. But that's not necessarily 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:51.919 the case. And when you look at it on it, you 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:55.620 know, marginally, you can see a new home is often 00:12:55.620 --> 00:12:57.639 going to be less than a resale home. You look 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:00.159 at our microcosm of where we're building currently 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.620 in South Shore. Yes, a small microcosm. I get 00:13:03.620 --> 00:13:07.200 that. But when I list one of our homes, or when 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.080 we list it, when the sales team runs with it, 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:12.019 we are often the cheapest home in that country 00:13:12.019 --> 00:13:15.629 club. And that's part strategy, am I? I like 00:13:15.629 --> 00:13:17.769 to underdevelop more than overdevelop. I don't 00:13:17.769 --> 00:13:20.149 want to move the market. I don't want to break 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:21.190 any records. You don't want to be out there in 00:13:21.190 --> 00:13:22.529 the front trying to set the front. Yeah, I want 00:13:22.529 --> 00:13:24.429 to be the first one to get $5 .5 million out 00:13:24.429 --> 00:13:28.289 of that or whatever. So I like to be more cautious. 00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:30.370 But I'm also doing many homes out there. So at 00:13:30.370 --> 00:13:33.309 the end of the day, I have to ride that middle 00:13:33.309 --> 00:13:36.269 ground. But the fact remains is that currently, 00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:40.129 with our spec that we just finished and relisted 00:13:40.129 --> 00:13:42.389 as a brand new, currently ready to go quick move 00:13:42.389 --> 00:13:45.860 -in, We are the cheapest custom in that community. 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:49.559 And our square footage isn't, I mean, it's a 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.340 really manageable square footage. It's not substantially 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:55.919 less than the competition, but we are smaller. 00:13:56.019 --> 00:13:58.419 We're building smaller. And so builders making 00:13:58.419 --> 00:14:00.720 those strategic decisions to build a little smaller 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:02.559 and price a little less, and all of those things 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:05.730 are actually... giving, you know, the next house 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:07.990 who's already overbuilt that was built 10 years 00:14:07.990 --> 00:14:10.370 ago and they have this massive monstrous home 00:14:10.370 --> 00:14:12.309 that's twice the square footage of what you just 00:14:12.309 --> 00:14:15.230 built and it has, I can't imagine they'd have 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:17.990 better options and upgrades because we really 00:14:17.990 --> 00:14:21.590 did this home. But in any event, I mean, apples 00:14:21.590 --> 00:14:24.070 to apples, those two things, it's less to go 00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:26.029 do. And now you've got the energy efficiency 00:14:26.029 --> 00:14:30.029 and the rate -by -downs and other incentives 00:14:30.029 --> 00:14:34.320 that builders will usually throw. Yeah, it's 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.500 and a smart home features and the energy efficiencies 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:39.240 that are gonna be less over time to own the home 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.299 as well And that's why builders set the market 00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.639 and builders what we're in the business of built 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.600 we have to sell them So we're not holding on 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.480 to this asset that was part of our retirement 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.039 It's can we have to sell as we have on in the 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:52.679 next ones or we know we got to get this batch 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.659 of homes kind of move through the ecosystem so 00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:57.440 we can Move on to other projects. I'm already 00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.159 committed to and money's already on the line 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.440 and we're thinking about selling that Before 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:03.820 it hits the ground right that our whole idea. 00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:07.500 Yeah, right So I think that's you know, it's 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:09.580 interesting to look back on it to say oh look 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:12.059 at the 70s and homes were simpler and then they 00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:14.899 started to swell as became asset classes and 00:15:14.899 --> 00:15:16.820 you know, they kind of has been a representation 00:15:16.820 --> 00:15:19.799 and When building costs were low and you became 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.440 a way to stand out in the 90s We had a home episode 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.960 on McMansion. We did figure better. Let's do 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.779 more Yeah, you know that whole trend. Yeah, so 00:15:28.779 --> 00:15:31.659 I think it is It's different, and this generation 00:15:31.659 --> 00:15:33.440 of home buyers is going to be completely different 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:35.620 on the topic of some of the data. They don't 00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:37.820 have to go very far to find data on the housing 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:39.500 market. But what I found interesting when we 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:42.700 talk about cycles, the biggest cohort of buyers 00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:47.059 moving through the system right now is 56 years 00:15:47.059 --> 00:15:51.399 old. 17 years ago, the average buyer moving through 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:54.639 the system, the largest cohort, was 39 years 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:59.379 old. They're the same people. 17 years later 00:15:59.379 --> 00:16:02.700 they're 17 years older. It is the most alarming 00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:04.899 statistic I've ever seen. It's showing you that 00:16:04.899 --> 00:16:07.399 there's almost like this property gilded landed 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.299 gentry class that's moving through the market 00:16:10.299 --> 00:16:13.440 and the average first -time homebuyers 38 years 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.179 old right now. Which was a surprise to me because 00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:17.940 I would tell you 10 years ago it was 10 years 00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:21.039 younger. 24 to 28 is what we were at previously. 00:16:22.649 --> 00:16:25.110 10 years later, these people are waiting to be 00:16:25.110 --> 00:16:27.570 able to entry level buyer at almost 40 years 00:16:27.570 --> 00:16:29.590 old. So what does that move up buyer look like 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:32.149 in 10 more years? And generally speaking, I do 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:35.289 think that people that generation, it was the 00:16:35.289 --> 00:16:38.269 boomer and the most of Gen X moved around a lot, 00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:42.370 they were mobile. And there's an indication that 00:16:42.370 --> 00:16:44.629 other millennials and maybe I mean, millennials 00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:47.250 all through elder Gen Z's are not going to be 00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:50.330 moving around as much they're making one purchase 00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:54.080 in that. will probably be their home for 20 years. 00:16:54.259 --> 00:16:56.220 It's kind of like the silent generation did in 00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:59.639 the 20s and 30s. And it makes you think about 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.139 that move up product line, right? If this is 00:17:03.139 --> 00:17:05.779 entry level, there's a move up. Whereas typically, 00:17:06.339 --> 00:17:08.299 by the time you're getting to 40, now your family's 00:17:08.299 --> 00:17:10.420 a little bit more established and maybe you have 00:17:10.420 --> 00:17:11.960 a better income and you have a different job 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:13.480 and you need the square footage. And so now the 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:18.180 move up, that whole move up. May or may not even 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:21.140 be a thing in the future. If you're entering, 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.839 when do you move up? At 50? Now the kids are 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:29.420 moving out. Yeah, well which is why I'm strategic 00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:33.119 in South Shore to build kind of small for custom, 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.000 you know, 32 to 38 square foot homes because 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.599 I know that my target demographic is probably 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:41.059 an empty nester that just wants some guest rooms 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:43.920 for the kids, an office, a craft room. They want 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:45.839 the square footage from the multi -purpose aspect 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.160 of it. but they probably don't need a playroom. 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:50.019 They probably want to use that loft as a pool 00:17:50.019 --> 00:17:52.579 table room or media room. Yep. At the end of 00:17:52.579 --> 00:17:54.700 the day, they don't need these big behemoths 00:17:54.700 --> 00:17:57.200 because those are the people that are moving 00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:58.740 through. You've got to know your audience and 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:01.440 I know that that's what's filling those gaps. 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.500 And we talked about this before, your previous 00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:07.680 employer built a lot of what we call entry level. 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.240 And I know you guys probably had a lot of first 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:10.880 time home buyers, but you also had a lot of people 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:12.859 who were downsizing. Sure. So it's almost like 00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:15.049 the bottom of the market. the people are going 00:18:15.049 --> 00:18:18.049 to whipsaw back through and end up, they're going 00:18:18.049 --> 00:18:19.849 to be the ones buying the entry -level product. 00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:22.589 It's going to be the people who are 60 now, and 00:18:22.589 --> 00:18:25.029 when they're 65, maybe they're downsizing out 00:18:25.029 --> 00:18:27.930 of those. I mean, it's going to depend on affluence 00:18:27.930 --> 00:18:29.630 and depend on their means and stuff. Yeah, they 00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:31.190 don't want the yard, they like the attached. 00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:33.609 There are things about that smaller product type 00:18:33.609 --> 00:18:36.220 that... appealing. It's more versatile to their 00:18:36.220 --> 00:18:38.140 lifestyle. If you want to hop in an RV and go 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:40.740 for six weeks or whatever. Lock it up and there's 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:43.579 no yard. Lock and leave kind of concepts. It 00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:45.940 would be interesting that right when you think 00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:48.319 of the entry -level product as oh they're gonna 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.180 be young there might not be. Not necessarily. 00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:53.640 They might not be the youngest buyers in the 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.339 cohort. Those buyers it's been proven for the 00:18:56.339 --> 00:18:59.119 last 10 years that people are holding off on 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.450 homeownership. they're buying later, they're 00:19:01.450 --> 00:19:03.750 buying when their needs more match what they 00:19:03.750 --> 00:19:07.509 can afford at that time. So I think with that, 00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:11.690 that there's, and this is one more aspect, real 00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:13.410 estate is now so much more visual. So I wanted 00:19:13.410 --> 00:19:15.809 to touch on this with the Zillow thing. Real 00:19:15.809 --> 00:19:18.829 estate is so much more visual now. People aren't 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:22.069 willing to compromise. That when I had a lot 00:19:22.069 --> 00:19:25.440 of brokerage clients, they were... willing to 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:28.259 wait and willing to make sacrifices to get exactly 00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:30.400 what they wanted because they've seen it all. 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:32.980 It's very visual. Real estate is a hobby now. 00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:36.000 It's like, they follow architectural influencers. 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.079 They follow interior design influencers. Television 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.500 shows. Television shows. Shaws of sunset. Yeah, 00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:45.140 exactly. Yeah, exactly. So I think that that's 00:19:45.140 --> 00:19:47.859 interesting to me is that that could maybe have 00:19:47.859 --> 00:19:49.819 fueled it. They're looking at these sad little 00:19:49.819 --> 00:19:53.529 two over ones. I don't want to buy that for $350 00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:56.349 when I could just save two more years and buy 00:19:56.349 --> 00:19:59.289 this home for $500. Or maybe I get that promotion 00:19:59.289 --> 00:20:03.750 or maybe my significant other finishes graduate 00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:05.769 school or whatever and then she'll be working 00:20:05.769 --> 00:20:09.650 or he'll be working. You feel like there's selectivity 00:20:09.650 --> 00:20:12.250 that buyers maybe in the 70s and 80s didn't have. 00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:15.049 They'd say, show me a house for $70 ,000 and 00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:16.630 then they would just buy what was $70 ,000 because 00:20:16.630 --> 00:20:19.630 it wasn't as much of an aesthetic as it is now. 00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:24.750 Homes are way more visual now. The interior aesthetic 00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:28.269 matters more. The finishes that go into it are, 00:20:28.349 --> 00:20:30.890 yeah, that's true. That's true. Even the exterior, 00:20:31.269 --> 00:20:35.009 you know, we have really, the exterior of a home 00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:37.329 has changed so much over time. It's photographed. 00:20:37.549 --> 00:20:40.720 A home is a model now. Literally, like a fashion 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:42.920 model. I mean, it matters how it presents itself 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.019 online. It just didn't matter as much before. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:46.880 All the details and the window trims and the 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.660 different colors that are used. Curb appeal has 00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:52.799 come so far. Oh, for sure. We used to say it 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.079 mattered. Curb appeal was really all that mattered, 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.180 they would say. You drive past and you see for 00:20:58.180 --> 00:20:59.920 sale sign. Now it's like, yeah, but what about 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:02.660 the drone imagery? Right? Oh, did you even do 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.579 Twilight Shot? Oh, okay. Interesting. See, we 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:08.779 put in money. It's just different now. Homes 00:21:08.779 --> 00:21:11.839 are models, and they just have to stand out. 00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:15.559 Buyers are different. It's just a different generation 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.460 of home buyers. That's funny when you say that 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:20.720 model. We all know the term models, but when 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.380 you think about it in terms of the fashion runway, 00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:27.720 they are the one walking the runway. That's right. 00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:31.980 And I think that even the older generation, when 00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:34.559 I say this generation of home buyers, mean the 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.640 older boomers that are bought, they're part of 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:39.359 this generation of home buyers. So they didn't 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.619 have that mentality 20 years ago, but now they're 00:21:41.619 --> 00:21:43.380 on Zillow just as much. It doesn't discriminate 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:48.140 by age, socioeconomic area. You look at their 00:21:48.140 --> 00:21:50.480 data, look at Zillow and their unique eyeballs 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.039 and the amount of visitors and the amount of 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.819 app downloads. That is just a vibrant app and 00:21:55.819 --> 00:21:59.980 I think it's changed a lot. Yeah, interesting. 00:22:00.819 --> 00:22:03.000 Anything from the past that you think will circle 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.380 back? I mean, obviously, the industry cycles 00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:10.200 of interest rates and some of that stuff. Historically, 00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:12.359 we can watch the trends and how they have circled 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.559 back. But do you think they'll come the same 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:16.619 way, given that everything else has changed so 00:22:16.619 --> 00:22:20.859 much? Will they be maneuvered differently somehow? 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.839 We don't have a huge generation moving through. 00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:26.019 I know they say the millennials are a big generation. 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:29.019 We don't have that big generation that is going 00:22:29.019 --> 00:22:32.220 to require the way that the baby boomers, or 00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:34.200 I should say that was actually the silent generation 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.299 buying those first tract homes. The baby boomers 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:38.299 were the kids that were having, right? It was 00:22:38.299 --> 00:22:41.299 that World War II generation, not the ones born, 00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:43.940 but the born in the 20s, and they were a big 00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:47.460 cohort of buyers. And I think that without some 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:50.259 sort of big shock to the system, we're gonna 00:22:50.259 --> 00:22:54.079 languish in this overall housing shortage, overall 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.900 housing is a bigger share of your income. think 00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:01.660 that word the era of seeing potato fields leveled 00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:04.599 for Residential affordable housing is never going 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.259 to come back and we saw that all the way up to 00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:10.039 into the 70s ago it wasn't really till the late 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.480 70s with a 30 -year mortgage kind of became prevalent 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:16.279 in the mid 70s and When homes became easier to 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:20.079 finance and longer terms Think they just became 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.319 bigger and bigger and bigger and now we're seeing 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.200 a little bit of shrink flation with houses So 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.940 sometimes yes homes new homes are smaller, but 00:23:27.940 --> 00:23:30.900 you're actually paying more per square So you're 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:33.019 so you're yeah, they're cheaper. They're smaller, 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:35.420 but you're actually paying more for the same 00:23:35.420 --> 00:23:38.160 thing, for apples to apples. And I think that 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.599 that might change. I think that that cycle of 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:42.759 the average new home in the 70s, I believe was 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.460 1 ,600 square feet, now it's 2 ,200, but it's 00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.660 shrinking. And a lot of that is product and labor 00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:50.380 costs. It has no choice but to cut down. And 00:23:50.380 --> 00:23:52.480 insulation costs more. It's harder to manufacture. 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.640 Exactly. There's more insulation needed. The 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:58.380 windows are more expensive. You can't throw together 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.279 a house anymore. So I think it just made sense 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.839 that what's going to give? If wages aren't dramatically 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:04.640 increasing and rates aren't coming down, borrowing 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.740 costs aren't coming down, the home itself, who's 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:08.619 going to blink first? It's going to be the size, 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:12.039 right? You can get greater density with smaller 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:16.480 homes. True. Right. So. True. Interesting. There's 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.960 a lot of factors. I do think that zoning laws 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:21.599 aren't going anywhere. We've got a lot of episodes 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.700 on that. I feel like it's always going to be, 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:27.799 you know, we look at our one project we have 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.210 should have been 23 affordable town homes ends 00:24:31.210 --> 00:24:33.329 up fashionably. We're going to do another episode 00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:35.430 of that. Six luxury homes are going to be a million 00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:37.869 and a half dollars. So there's six families on 00:24:37.869 --> 00:24:40.769 that parcel instead of 23. I don't think that's 00:24:40.769 --> 00:24:42.230 going to stop anytime soon. There's not enough 00:24:42.230 --> 00:24:45.089 political will for that to stop, to reverse course. 00:24:45.769 --> 00:24:47.250 And they still had a lot of resistance on that 00:24:47.250 --> 00:24:48.990 project. Even doing six luxury homes, which would 00:24:48.990 --> 00:24:51.250 be the nicest homes on that strip of land, you 00:24:51.250 --> 00:24:54.130 know, that quarter mile will be the nicest product 00:24:54.130 --> 00:24:55.730 and we still got resistance from all the neighbors. 00:24:56.490 --> 00:24:59.549 So without that, with that NIMBY -ism, it's just, 00:24:59.769 --> 00:25:01.230 yeah, so no, to answer your question historically, 00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:03.450 we're not gonna circle back to an era of the 00:25:03.450 --> 00:25:06.190 40s, 50s, 60s where farms are being plowed over 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:09.250 and you're seeing some affordable homes that 00:25:09.250 --> 00:25:11.049 go in. I just don't think... Even with land at 00:25:11.049 --> 00:25:13.829 a premium, the way that it is unavailable and... 00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:16.130 Yeah, I just don't, I don't feel it. I think 00:25:16.130 --> 00:25:18.549 we have these cyclical buyer's markets. It's 00:25:18.549 --> 00:25:20.329 gonna keep coming around. We had it in 2020. 00:25:20.789 --> 00:25:22.990 We had it in the decade, in the previous decade. 00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:24.690 We had a lot of six -month periods that were 00:25:24.690 --> 00:25:28.369 buyer's markets. In a market like ours, a relatively 00:25:28.369 --> 00:25:30.690 closed market, builders just dial down their 00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:34.029 spec homes, less inventory, corrects, moves around, 00:25:34.109 --> 00:25:36.369 and then equalizes within three to six months. 00:25:37.130 --> 00:25:42.410 It's just too small of a market, especially the 00:25:42.410 --> 00:25:44.289 Western markets, because some of the Sun Belt 00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:46.430 and the South sprawls like we talked about, but 00:25:46.430 --> 00:25:48.349 the Southwest markets, they're just too closed. 00:25:48.529 --> 00:25:53.210 They're just too easy to manipulate. Even just 00:25:53.210 --> 00:25:55.170 12 ,000 homes a year, roughly complete, 10 to 00:25:55.170 --> 00:25:57.329 12 ,000, even if the average builder pulls back 00:25:57.329 --> 00:26:00.589 20%, you're losing, you know, you're only adding 00:26:00.589 --> 00:26:03.069 8 ,500 homes to the inventory, you're losing 00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:06.990 over 2 ,000 houses. It doesn't take long to shock 00:26:06.990 --> 00:26:09.150 the system and prop it back up and say, oh, it's 00:26:09.150 --> 00:26:11.809 fine, we just pulled back. We were gonna finish 00:26:11.809 --> 00:26:14.329 out a 200 -home subdivision in 18 months where 00:26:14.329 --> 00:26:16.450 you're gonna do it in 24. You have to throttle 00:26:16.450 --> 00:26:19.769 it down a little bit. Interesting and I love 00:26:19.769 --> 00:26:22.390 that. I just like the idea of right where we 00:26:22.390 --> 00:26:24.950 are Looking at what has been what has brought 00:26:24.950 --> 00:26:27.390 us here and kind of where we have seen, you know 00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:30.289 Yes change and things move. Yeah looking at those 00:26:30.289 --> 00:26:32.250 numbers statistically who's buying and where's 00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:33.910 our greatest cohort and some of those things 00:26:33.910 --> 00:26:36.910 I feel like Help to draw the picture of what? 00:26:37.470 --> 00:26:39.289 Yeah, you know, you can't quite see it. Yeah, 00:26:39.289 --> 00:26:41.609 but you know what's out there, right? Yeah, you 00:26:41.609 --> 00:26:43.289 can feel and you can look at the day and think 00:26:43.289 --> 00:26:47.549 okay in 12 months or 24 months. What do we think? 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.019 is going to be in demand and what's it going 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:55.180 to look like. Yep. I like it. Well, thank you. 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:57.819 Great insights. Always a great conversation. 00:26:58.339 --> 00:27:00.660 Appreciate it. And we appreciate you guys being 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:02.799 here with us too. So I'm taking a moment to think 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.519 about the pause of where we're at and how we 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:06.279 got here and where we're going. Hopefully that's 00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.440 an interesting conversation for you to consider 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:12.240 too in your own needs. And we will hope to see 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.359 you again next time on the next episode of Trust 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:18.170 the Process podcast. Bye -bye. Thanks for tuning 00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:20.710 in to the Press the Process podcast. Make sure 00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:23.130 to follow us on Spotify to stay in the loop with 00:27:23.130 --> 00:27:25.910 the latest insights, project updates, and everything 00:27:25.910 --> 00:27:27.690 in between. See you next time.