WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.439 You libertarian, there is no way in hell it's 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:08.980 only 500 pages. No, don't take advantage. Ever 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:11.560 wonder what really happens behind the scenes 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:13.900 in construction, real estate and development? 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:16.719 We pull back the curtain on the new home construction 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.579 industry the real estate market and the trends 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:22.600 shaping it all Discover the stories insights 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.719 and expertise behind the process of building 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:28.140 a new home Join us for trust the process podcast 00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:33.179 and let's build something great together Welcome 00:00:33.179 --> 00:00:36.539 back to trust the process podcast where we talk 00:00:36.539 --> 00:00:39.520 about real estate market new home construction 00:00:39.789 --> 00:00:43.829 and everything in between. Today as we talk about 00:00:43.829 --> 00:00:47.149 those in -betweens we're going to look at codes 00:00:47.149 --> 00:00:50.289 and regulatory standards that are affecting the 00:00:50.289 --> 00:00:54.770 build process both here in Nevada as well as 00:00:54.770 --> 00:00:57.030 nationally. We're going to look at the Nevada 00:00:57.030 --> 00:00:59.229 ones today and kind of talk about that, but we 00:00:59.229 --> 00:01:01.450 know that it's happening across the entire country. 00:01:01.729 --> 00:01:03.670 Everything is changing. Builders building standards 00:01:03.670 --> 00:01:06.250 are changing and the number of codes and regulatory 00:01:06.250 --> 00:01:08.790 standards that are being put in place. How that 00:01:08.790 --> 00:01:12.530 affects things and and what what that means for 00:01:12.530 --> 00:01:14.930 us as a builder and for the future of building 00:01:14.930 --> 00:01:18.090 as a whole. Yeah, it's um, boy, what a lead and 00:01:18.090 --> 00:01:20.209 we're gonna talk about building codes and regulation. 00:01:20.969 --> 00:01:24.269 I think I think only I can get excited for that 00:01:24.269 --> 00:01:29.170 episode I tune in. So I what I what I wanted 00:01:29.170 --> 00:01:32.750 to talk about today was on the heels of our last 00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:35.129 few episodes, which are have a somewhat of a 00:01:35.129 --> 00:01:37.549 negative tilt and a negative tone about when 00:01:37.549 --> 00:01:40.170 it pertains to codes and regulation, I feel like 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:43.329 I might be a little jaded and even I might lose 00:01:43.329 --> 00:01:46.650 sight. in what codes are for and why we need 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:50.790 them. I read a great quote. I can't remember 00:01:50.790 --> 00:01:53.989 who it was attributed to, but he said codes are 00:01:53.989 --> 00:01:56.349 painted in blood. Actually, I think the quote 00:01:56.349 --> 00:01:59.209 is codes and regulations are painted in blood. 00:02:00.650 --> 00:02:03.670 It's dark, right? And when you think about why 00:02:03.670 --> 00:02:05.870 we have regulation and you look at maybe other 00:02:05.870 --> 00:02:09.689 countries or other eras in history when we had 00:02:09.689 --> 00:02:15.199 zero regulations and how fast fire swept through 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:19.300 houses and how fast cities burn and how homes 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:21.580 could fall into the coastline and how things 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:25.479 would just fall over or before streets were regulated 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:28.960 and air travel was regulated. I don't even think 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:33.379 twice to get on a plane because I trust obviously 00:02:33.379 --> 00:02:36.120 the regulations and I think there's an argument 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.340 without going too far down the rabbit hole that 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:42.060 in a true free market the market would regulate 00:02:42.060 --> 00:02:45.699 itself, right? You would be a competitive firm 00:02:45.699 --> 00:02:48.900 by putting out a quality experience or product. 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:52.000 However, because of barriers to entry to certain 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.879 industries, you might find industries dominated 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:56.819 by one or two players. Therefore, you need a 00:02:56.819 --> 00:02:59.819 third party, an adult in the room, i .e. government, 00:03:00.659 --> 00:03:03.900 that regulates it for you. Because I can't go 00:03:03.900 --> 00:03:07.530 start a jetliner company tomorrow. Although don't 00:03:07.530 --> 00:03:14.969 put it past me. That's true. But I think don't 00:03:14.969 --> 00:03:17.469 give me any ideas. But if you look at industries 00:03:17.469 --> 00:03:20.469 that are controlled by a few players, and that's 00:03:20.469 --> 00:03:22.009 honestly largely every industry, look at the 00:03:22.009 --> 00:03:24.689 automotive industry and how many cars there are 00:03:24.689 --> 00:03:27.110 versus how few players there are when you really 00:03:27.110 --> 00:03:30.229 look at, oh, well, Jeep is part of Chrysler, 00:03:30.349 --> 00:03:33.099 part of Dodge, part of ramp. It's Stellantis 00:03:33.099 --> 00:03:35.360 and you think all those cars fall under that 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.300 umbrella and everything that Volkswagen controls. 00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:40.000 And so you think about how few players there 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:42.919 are in any industry. And in our other episode 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:44.620 where we talked about how many publicly traded 00:03:44.620 --> 00:03:47.400 home builders there are just nationwide and how 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.500 many homes they put out and how much they can 00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:53.860 corner the market. One large publicly traded 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:57.439 company in our market controls about 20 % of 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.099 new rooftops, and I won't name them, but it starts 00:04:00.099 --> 00:04:03.840 with a D and ends with an R. And they control 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:10.020 about 20 % of our market. So yes, the free market 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:12.740 should regulate everything, but that's with the 00:04:12.740 --> 00:04:14.099 assumption that there's enough choice in the 00:04:14.099 --> 00:04:18.339 market to allow customers to vote with their 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:20.800 feet. and to say, well, you don't build a sound 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.959 home, so I'm going to choose this other home. 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.699 So I understand the need for regulation. And 00:04:26.699 --> 00:04:29.860 I do love the idea that homes are better today 00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:33.620 than they were 30 or 40 years ago. And I appreciate 00:04:33.620 --> 00:04:36.699 the leaps and bounds we've made with energy efficiency 00:04:36.699 --> 00:04:41.240 and how much more earthquake resistant, fire 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:44.300 resistant, weather resistant, age resistant our 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:48.100 structures are today versus even 40 years, 30 00:04:48.100 --> 00:04:49.980 years in the past, let alone 100 years in the 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:52.860 past, where the adage of they don't build them 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:55.379 like they used to, which makes the hair on the 00:04:55.379 --> 00:04:58.100 back of my neck stand up, because tear apart 00:04:58.100 --> 00:05:00.459 at home built from 1955. That thing is built 00:05:00.459 --> 00:05:04.079 out of cardboard and paper. That is not - I'm 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:05.600 grateful they're not built like that. I'm grateful 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:07.860 they're not built like that. You could punch 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:09.860 a hole in the siding and your fist would go through 00:05:09.860 --> 00:05:11.720 into the bedroom. Sometimes they didn't even 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.939 have insulation. So we're looking at the other 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:19.069 extreme of it. I understand and I have to take 00:05:19.069 --> 00:05:26.009 a step back and breathe as to give myself context 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:29.149 in terms of why we have these regulations and 00:05:29.149 --> 00:05:34.290 you can't count on the free market to iron all 00:05:34.290 --> 00:05:37.610 those hiccups out. Take a trip to a third world 00:05:37.610 --> 00:05:42.230 country and get in a 1984 Sentra that is your 00:05:42.230 --> 00:05:45.990 Uber driver and drive through those streets and 00:05:45.990 --> 00:05:48.290 alleyways that are not regulated some are seven 00:05:48.290 --> 00:05:51.250 feet wide and some are 70 feet wide and the structures 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:53.149 that are built over top of each other with the 00:05:53.149 --> 00:05:55.389 laundry hanging out and you think Well, I don't 00:05:55.389 --> 00:05:58.449 want zero regulation because this is what it 00:05:58.449 --> 00:06:01.910 looks like And just the standardized right there's 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:04.569 this just to know that that there is a general 00:06:04.569 --> 00:06:06.930 safety component that's been considered before 00:06:06.930 --> 00:06:09.250 That's right. That's right. It does give you 00:06:09.250 --> 00:06:12.980 a great sense of comfort to know that so Well, 00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:14.779 we're doing it temporary while we're dealing 00:06:14.779 --> 00:06:17.579 with the temporary pain of building the structure, 00:06:18.019 --> 00:06:21.379 which is a nine to 18 month process. We have 00:06:21.379 --> 00:06:23.339 to think that structure is going to be there 00:06:23.339 --> 00:06:27.480 for 100 to 200 to 300 years. We don't know. And 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:29.920 there's homes in England that are 500 and 600 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:34.639 years old. So I understand why. And I, and I, 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.240 I want to, I wanted to give our viewers that 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.800 context that I, I'm not anti -regulation. I love. 00:06:41.180 --> 00:06:43.759 the idea that we have better building standards 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:47.879 today than we did even 20, 25 years ago. So that 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:49.759 being said, I want to trash the coast for once. 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.639 I think that no, I think that's a good way to 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:55.540 make that. I mean, it isn't an anti -regulation. 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.120 It's a brutal crossing. It is. And I think what 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.980 does get a little frustrating is that there's 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:05.579 never a push to cut any regulations at all. That 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:11.060 is so unpopular. And there's really no will In 00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:14.600 the regulatory agencies, because by doing that, 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:17.839 they're shrinking their footprint. So the Department 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.240 of Building and Safety wants robust codes. It's 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:24.980 job security. And most home building permits 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:30.120 are minimum of $5 ,000. You really could go up 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:34.160 to 12, 15, 18, $20 ,000. And you look at a municipality 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:36.980 like Clark County, now it's broken up. Sometimes 00:07:36.980 --> 00:07:39.100 the City of Henderson gets that permit fee. There's 00:07:39.100 --> 00:07:41.199 always County always collects a certain impact 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:43.920 fee, but there's always something collected on 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.040 every rooftop. And we know that last year we 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:53.819 built around 12 ,500 rooftops by 10 ,000 and 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:56.300 my math doesn't even go. My mind doesn't work 00:07:56.300 --> 00:07:59.300 in numbers that commas that long. So I think 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:01.879 that we have to remember that there are some 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.779 perverse motives that people don't want to see 00:08:05.779 --> 00:08:08.560 regulations, any regulations roll back. In fact, 00:08:09.140 --> 00:08:12.300 They have a vested interest in increasing regulations, 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:16.000 and I feel that certain agencies locally might 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:20.959 exist for that purpose, and you might see them 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.920 growing for the sake of growth. So I thought 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.300 of something last week that I found exceptionally 00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:32.379 clever, but you might not. Regulations, i .e. 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:34.539 building codes in our industry, is kind of like 00:08:34.539 --> 00:08:37.919 a garden, and once you plant it, the garden just 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.500 keeps growing and germinating a bigger garden 00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:43.919 right and of course it wants to grow bigger it's 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:47.340 just naturally plants and weeds want to grow 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:51.240 it's not all crop it's just growth so if you 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:53.940 have a garden and you're watering it it'll grow 00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:56.399 it might not be the stuff you want so you could 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.019 make a case for that garden and say it's choked 00:08:59.019 --> 00:09:01.100 out by the weeds and that's kind of how i feel 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:04.220 that many times when i'm scratching my head or 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:06.559 Beating my head against the wall quite frankly. 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:11.559 I wish I was only scratching it. It's not It's 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.200 a lot of that. It's it feels like regulation 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:17.299 and regulation for regulations sake and I think 00:09:17.299 --> 00:09:19.080 that that's where my biggest frustrations come 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:23.120 from because I Believe in the spirit of regulations 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:25.600 and I believe in the spirit of building codes 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:31.500 But I did a little exercise on our local Clark 00:09:31.500 --> 00:09:35.100 County building codes and what is referenced 00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:39.379 on a general set of stamped blueprints that I 00:09:39.379 --> 00:09:43.659 submit to the city. And without boring our readers, 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.659 I'm going to bore them. 2021 International Building 00:09:47.659 --> 00:09:51.940 Code, 2018 Universal Mechanical Code, 2018 International 00:09:51.940 --> 00:09:55.759 Energy Efficiency Code, 2018 International Residential 00:09:55.759 --> 00:10:00.230 Code, 2018 Uniform Plumbing Code. 2021 International 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:03.590 Wildland Urban Interface Code. I don't know what 00:10:03.590 --> 00:10:06.509 that is. 2020, we'll talk about that. 2021 International 00:10:06.509 --> 00:10:09.690 Fire Code, 2017 National Electric Code, and the 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:14.149 2009 ICC, which is kind of an accessibility, 00:10:14.309 --> 00:10:16.789 how structures are accessible to the population. 00:10:17.129 --> 00:10:19.509 These all have to be referenced on a set of plans, 00:10:19.870 --> 00:10:22.610 that we've reviewed these plans to these codes. 00:10:23.570 --> 00:10:25.929 Then I did a little exercise, if our audience 00:10:25.929 --> 00:10:31.870 is still awake. How many pages those codes encompass? 00:10:32.169 --> 00:10:35.889 Total. If you had to just guess all those codes, 00:10:35.990 --> 00:10:37.929 how many pages, if we printed them out, how many 00:10:37.929 --> 00:10:41.409 pages would all those codes take up? How many 00:10:41.409 --> 00:10:46.850 reams of paper? Yeah, I'd say probably 500 pages. 00:10:47.029 --> 00:10:49.549 I mean, if you're looking, it would sum up to... 00:10:49.549 --> 00:10:51.909 You libertarian, there is no way in hell it's 00:10:51.909 --> 00:11:00.730 only 500 pages. There is no way it is four thousand 00:11:00.730 --> 00:11:04.590 nine hundred and twelve thousand pages of code 00:11:04.590 --> 00:11:07.289 thousand four thousand nine hundred twelve pages 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:11.450 of code. That's pages of code. If you print it 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:14.629 out, all the codes that I just mentioned, mind 00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:18.210 you, those are the codes in their entirety. All 00:11:18.210 --> 00:11:21.990 of our codes have a parentheses that says with 00:11:21.990 --> 00:11:24.929 local amendments. So twenty twenty one international 00:11:24.929 --> 00:11:27.970 building code with local amendments. So that's 00:11:27.970 --> 00:11:31.070 saying, yes, all of these codes, we're also going 00:11:31.070 --> 00:11:34.549 to amend it to our codes that pertain to this. 00:11:34.830 --> 00:11:38.149 So the uniform plumbing code is something that 00:11:38.149 --> 00:11:41.490 is observed nationwide. But then Clark County, 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:43.690 our local jurisdictions, your local jurisdictions 00:11:43.690 --> 00:11:45.629 are going to have additional overlays and amendments. 00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:49.629 On top of that, I would imagine that's another 00:11:49.629 --> 00:11:55.169 three, 400 pages. We're over 5 ,000 pages of 00:11:55.169 --> 00:11:57.940 code. I thought I was thinking big when I said 00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:00.919 you were like gosh there's because if I didn't 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.480 have this when we were talking in our previous 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.000 episodes I would have thought it was on the order 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.279 of three to seven hundred pages worth of code 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:12.279 and I just didn't really put my head around it 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:15.279 until I pulled up a set of blueprints and found 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:19.399 that all of these code books are referenced and 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:24.200 it's nine by the way it's nine code books and 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:26.240 I thought wait a minute if it's nine books of 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.200 code. I mean, pages of code is that and that's 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:31.980 how we come up with. I mean, for instance, the 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:36.320 International Building Code is 832 pages. The 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:38.899 International Wildland Urban Interface Code, 00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:44.299 which is a code for when properties are built. 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.899 Yeah, it's a face -only regulator, good luck. 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:53.919 That code is for basically growth impeding into 00:12:53.919 --> 00:13:00.820 nature. And it's 78 pages on codes related to 00:13:00.820 --> 00:13:03.259 your building this subdivision and on the other 00:13:03.259 --> 00:13:05.840 side of it is nature, desert, forest, whatever, 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:08.840 nothingness, whatever it is. And there are 78 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.559 pages of code for that and certain things that 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.879 you need to address. So it is bloated to say 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.100 the least. So although I believe in the spirit 00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:20.600 of the codes and I know that we need to be a 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.179 well regulated industry. After all, people live 00:13:23.179 --> 00:13:25.460 in these structures. These structures are meant 00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:28.419 to be here. It's not a coffee mug. This coffee 00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:31.000 mug, it's inconsequential, right? If the coffee 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.899 mug fails, terrible, throw it away, get a different 00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:37.100 one. It's not meant to last 100 years. And they're 00:13:37.100 --> 00:13:41.039 also major investments and their insurance liabilities, 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:44.460 right? Every home that's built needs to be insured. 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:48.779 So when you think of it under that context, is 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:53.399 this growth encodes part of What has helped our 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.100 real estate become such a bulletproof asset? 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.279 Because it's presumed that when they're built 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:03.580 to 4 ,900 pages of code that they are going to 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:05.320 be here for a while and that that investment 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.519 is safe. Is that part of why we've seen homes 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.200 go from a place to live to an asset class in 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.620 really two generations? Because they were not 00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:18.299 an asset class. A home was worth what it could 00:14:18.299 --> 00:14:22.210 be either lived in for or rented for. It was 00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:24.769 never considered a speculative investment until 00:14:24.769 --> 00:14:29.809 probably maybe the 70s, right? The idea of a 00:14:29.809 --> 00:14:32.409 landlord being anything more than, oh, my grandmother 00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:34.429 left me this home in her will, and now I rent 00:14:34.429 --> 00:14:38.370 it to a tenant. And it's worth the $500 a month 00:14:38.370 --> 00:14:40.549 that I get from that tenant. That's what it's 00:14:40.549 --> 00:14:42.929 worth to me. And then it's worth to someone else 00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:45.389 what it saves them in rent and housing policy. 00:14:45.549 --> 00:14:49.549 It became something that was a utilitarian good 00:14:49.549 --> 00:14:53.110 to something that became a wealth creation juggernaut, 00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:56.830 honestly. And I just wonder if, and that's why 00:14:56.830 --> 00:14:59.289 I wanted to be introspective and fair to say, 00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:03.029 is it part of why there's such wonderful wealth 00:15:03.029 --> 00:15:06.809 generating machines? Is because when insurance 00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:10.250 companies see 400, 4900 pages of code, they know, 00:15:10.889 --> 00:15:13.009 okay, well, this home, and that's when you look 00:15:13.009 --> 00:15:15.370 at insurance rates, one of the single greatest 00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:19.519 Factors for dictating insurance rates is the 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:22.080 age of the structure not the size not the location. 00:15:22.179 --> 00:15:25.559 It's the age of the structure It's just presumed 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:27.720 that there's less neglect but also that they 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.759 were built 4900 pages of code different standards 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.580 great way to sum it up succinctly. So I think 00:15:34.580 --> 00:15:37.820 that When I look at it through that lens, I try 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:40.620 to be a little fair to say yes, it is frustrating 00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:44.039 Do I think we could cut 4 ,900 pages of code 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.500 down to, I don't know, 4 ,800 pages of code? 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:49.960 I'd settle for that, maybe. And I think it's 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.700 only growing. That's what worries me is that 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:58.100 I remember building to 2014 International Residential 00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:00.899 Code, and now it's 2018. And last I heard, we're 00:16:00.899 --> 00:16:05.019 going to start adopting 2021 International Residential 00:16:05.019 --> 00:16:08.159 Code. And then there's other things that best 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.190 laid plans, right? There's a push for energy 00:16:12.190 --> 00:16:15.009 efficiency and it's very important completely 00:16:15.009 --> 00:16:17.009 understand it Do I wish the free market handled 00:16:17.009 --> 00:16:19.830 that more do I wish? That the free market valued 00:16:19.830 --> 00:16:21.929 energy efficient homes and then would pay accordingly. 00:16:21.929 --> 00:16:24.389 We didn't have to legislate energy efficiency 00:16:24.389 --> 00:16:28.190 into homes Yes, is that is that a luxury a lot 00:16:28.190 --> 00:16:30.210 of home buyers might have when their budget constraint 00:16:30.210 --> 00:16:32.730 probably no But the buyers end up paying for 00:16:32.730 --> 00:16:35.629 it anyway, and if you look at a lot of the regulations 00:16:35.629 --> 00:16:39.370 from 2010 onward so a lot of the low -hanging 00:16:39.370 --> 00:16:42.669 fruit Needed to be addressed certain are values 00:16:42.669 --> 00:16:45.470 in the ceiling and just insulation in general 00:16:45.470 --> 00:16:48.710 Window our value things like that that all matters 00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:52.049 and it does However, if you look at new regulations 00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:54.289 because they're never gonna pull back environmental 00:16:54.289 --> 00:16:56.610 and energy efficiency regulations They only add 00:16:56.610 --> 00:17:00.909 to them since 2010 those the new regulations 00:17:00.909 --> 00:17:04.390 on the books. I can't remember which Think tank 00:17:04.390 --> 00:17:07.069 did a study on it and it's worth the researcher 00:17:07.069 --> 00:17:09.130 that did it so I hold it with you know, you never 00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:12.240 You can pick these things apart, but it's estimated 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:17.220 that new energy efficiency pushes are about 86 00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:20.759 years worth of time to recoup the added cost 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:27.799 of those initiatives. So it's definitely a thought 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:30.480 that that's why I said best laid plans. The intentions 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.400 are there and I get it. But when you look at 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:36.859 an overall cost, what is the functional? lifespan 00:17:36.859 --> 00:17:38.740 of a home before it would have a substantial 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:41.859 renovation anyway. Taste change, functionality 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:43.960 changes, zoning changes, now it's allowed you 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.200 can do a two -family home there and just tear 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.099 it down and put a two -family house. So things 00:17:48.099 --> 00:17:51.660 change and is that beyond the average lifespan 00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:54.559 even of a home before you have gotten back to 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:58.000 zero on that energy investment. So there's definitely 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.640 an argument on both sides for it. And when we're 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:04.940 in an affordability crunch, it feels a little 00:18:06.139 --> 00:18:08.759 counterintuitive to keep increasing to say, why 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:13.140 is a home built to 2018 standards no longer relevant? 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:15.900 Do we really think we've come that far in technology? 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.259 What has changed that? The cost that's associated 00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:21.380 with each of those. So while we're not building 00:18:21.380 --> 00:18:23.559 homes like we were, they're also not the same 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:25.960 cost that they were for that building standard 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.339 that we're now having to be, that we have to 00:18:28.339 --> 00:18:31.440 meet because each new code assesses another... 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:33.720 You know X number of there's a multiplier on 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:35.559 a different product type or it's a different, 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:38.039 you know, right? I don't know engineer that has 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:39.980 to look at it or whatever. Of course another 00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:42.559 set of cost slows it down Even if nothing else 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:44.720 it just slows it down and that's more end of 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.880 the day that home is gonna cost more to put out 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:48.859 to market because it costs you more to build 00:18:48.859 --> 00:18:52.400 and so are we going further from from bridging 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.839 our avoidable short answer is yes, I mean You 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.539 can only change two things right your inputs 00:18:59.539 --> 00:19:02.319 and your throughputs To get to the same output. 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.299 So if your inputs are higher, eventually the 00:19:05.299 --> 00:19:09.339 market will. So you'd say, well, it doesn't a 00:19:09.339 --> 00:19:13.559 great example. In 2020, it became mandatory in 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.440 the entire county to have fire suppression, active 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:18.019 fire suppression, so fire sprinklers, whereas 00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:20.859 it was a Henderson only, which is one of our 00:19:20.859 --> 00:19:23.460 suburbs, a Henderson only just that that jurisdiction 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:25.000 was the only one that required sprinklers and 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.779 then all of Las Vegas and Clark County, which 00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:31.029 represents probably. 75 % of the Las Vegas Metro 00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:34.069 population so with this was a new thing for us 00:19:34.069 --> 00:19:38.589 and and it added about 12 to $22 ,000 worth of 00:19:38.589 --> 00:19:41.789 cost hard construction costs for me hard construction 00:19:41.789 --> 00:19:45.150 costs to the cost of every single house even 00:19:45.150 --> 00:19:48.650 a entry -level home 10 % below the median sales 00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:51.190 price it added that to that home because there's 00:19:51.190 --> 00:19:53.809 a certain just to do fire suppression is $10 00:19:53.809 --> 00:19:55.529 ,000 and then the size of the home starts to 00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:58.380 factor in but just doing it as $10 ,000. And 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.200 then it costs more, you know, as it goes up in 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:02.960 terms of square footage and how much suppression 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:05.759 you're installing, but there's a certain kind 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:10.319 of action potential. So to every home, every 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.279 new permit from 2021 onward. So when you look 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.500 at that, yes. It did automatically mean that 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:20.680 homes became $15 ,000 more valuable. No, but 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.839 what it does is put supply constraints into the 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.859 marketplace and then the market adapts quickly 00:20:26.859 --> 00:20:30.079 and says, so builders like myself, just you add 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:31.700 it right on to the price. The first people to 00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:33.680 feel it are new construction buyers because the 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.039 bill is just going to say, you know what it is. 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.700 I was already going to get 1 ,750 ,000. I'll 00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:41.220 get 1 ,765 ,000 and someone will still pay it. 00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:44.460 And it puts that upward pressure on prices. That's 00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:47.390 one example. so if you think about what that 00:20:47.390 --> 00:20:50.089 looks like and that you're using a million dollar 00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:52.490 home as the that's right as a percentage of that 00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:55.609 take that back to the percentage of 375 versus 00:20:55.609 --> 00:20:59.450 390 or the $400 ,000 entry -level home what that's 00:20:59.450 --> 00:21:01.990 a huge margin now you're the same number to that 00:21:01.990 --> 00:21:06.230 greater percentage and again that buyer is who 00:21:06.230 --> 00:21:09.809 that's right and it's best laid plans the intentions 00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:12.940 are pure They who wants to lose their home in 00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:15.200 a fire. Nobody wants to lose. And then there's 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.720 an insurance piece that that's right, that there's 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:19.960 a savings that comes with insurance. So now is 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.119 does it come up? However, if you talk to actuarial, 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:25.740 or actuaries and insurance companies, they see 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:28.859 it as a net zero most that I've talked to, because 00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:31.839 now you have all this running water in your ceilings. 00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:35.660 And water loss is a bigger loss leader for insurance 00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:38.500 companies and fire. So it's actually about a 00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:42.460 zero. Like a zero, zero sum game. Yeah. So as 00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:44.619 using that as an example, just to, it's to me, 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:48.079 that's just a great relatable example. And when 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:51.960 you look at that times 4 ,900 pages of code, 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.940 you can imagine why it's challenging. So I get 00:21:55.940 --> 00:21:59.460 it. And I understand we need codes. Our first 00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:01.119 building codes. I have to sprinkle in a little 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:05.220 bit of history, about 1700 BC, Hammurabi's code. 00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:09.460 We're just going farther and farther back in 00:22:09.460 --> 00:22:13.700 time. There were codes for construction standards 00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:17.720 and the penalty for building a home that was 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:20.160 substandard and collapsed or killed someone was 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:24.180 death. So, thankfully, I feel over - I feel over 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:26.299 -regulated, but I don't think I'm as regulated 00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:30.000 as Trust Home Builders' Hammurabi stuff. Yeah. 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.799 So I understand and I just feel like there's, 00:22:34.339 --> 00:22:36.660 can we thin it down a little bit? Can we thin 00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:39.259 down the herd a little bit and get some of these 00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:42.339 off the books or send them a little bit? Literal, 00:22:42.460 --> 00:22:44.680 the weeds start choking out the... The weeds 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.359 start choking out the garden because you've made 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.059 this fertile soil. So that's one regulation breeds 00:22:49.059 --> 00:22:52.319 two, two breeds four. Are they just regulations 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:54.180 for the sake of regulation or how they really 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:56.599 move the needle in terms of the end quality of 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:58.319 the home that's being built? Exactly. And how 00:22:58.319 --> 00:22:59.940 much of that would have been market driven anyway? 00:23:00.190 --> 00:23:03.569 So that's kind of the bounce, right? Maybe people 00:23:03.569 --> 00:23:06.549 would have paid more for spring homes, the sprinklers. 00:23:06.930 --> 00:23:08.950 And what kills me is that we have all this housing 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:12.410 stock. Las Vegas is a relatively new market. 00:23:12.529 --> 00:23:14.170 When you think about most of our growth has been 00:23:14.170 --> 00:23:17.089 since 19 Jamie, right? So a lot of our housing 00:23:17.089 --> 00:23:20.089 inventory here is under 30 years old. And you 00:23:20.089 --> 00:23:22.529 look at the standard of a 1995, the home to 2025, 00:23:22.529 --> 00:23:25.369 the home wildly different, but we have all this 00:23:25.369 --> 00:23:29.799 housing inventory and housing stock that is Inferior 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:31.700 in the eyes of these codes. I mean technically 00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:35.299 right? So why is it okay for? This is two or 00:23:35.299 --> 00:23:36.660 two point three million people here Why is it 00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:40.519 okay for two million people to live in this squalor? 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.940 Right, right You mean you don't have our 19 and 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:46.599 you're come on. How do you even get up on how 00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:49.339 do you get out of bed? So there's just a lot 00:23:49.339 --> 00:23:52.819 of a lot of that pun pondering that I do to think 00:23:52.819 --> 00:23:54.460 how much of the free market I've taken care of 00:23:54.700 --> 00:23:57.200 And how much are we worsening those increases? 00:23:57.660 --> 00:23:59.700 Yeah. And we haven't even talked talked about 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:02.740 zoning codes and land use codes. And that's something 00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:05.440 that I have a really hard time reconciling when 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.660 you have old outdated zoning laws that favor 00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:11.559 suburbia that favor big cul -de -sacs that let 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:13.839 kind of the market decide what the market wants 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.609 instead of this city. Over regulating it and 00:24:17.609 --> 00:24:20.009 we'll talk about that and maybe in our land podcast 00:24:20.009 --> 00:24:22.990 and our land episode But there's these are just 00:24:22.990 --> 00:24:25.529 Department of Building and safety codes. This 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:28.769 is not the amount of codes conclusive list of 00:24:28.769 --> 00:24:33.430 codes That exist in our town. This is just for 00:24:33.430 --> 00:24:36.170 new residential construction. There's no ADA 00:24:36.170 --> 00:24:39.750 codes in here Nothing for commercial right because 00:24:39.750 --> 00:24:43.240 these are residential only structures So there's 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:45.460 a ton of coats and there's a ton of land use 00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:49.240 coats. We have something odd in Henderson and 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:51.839 our Henderson suburb of a hillside overlay so 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.359 if a certain percentage of your parcel is subject 00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:58.099 to The hillside then you have to do 3d maps and 00:24:58.099 --> 00:25:01.599 renderings and you have to say how many Desert 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:03.200 scorpions are going to be displaced you have 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.019 to do an environmental study and you have to 00:25:05.019 --> 00:25:08.710 say oh this is I'm clearing off 18 dead sage 00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:11.710 brushes. That's the environmental impact. It's 00:25:11.710 --> 00:25:14.430 a lot. It adds another 50 ,000 and six months 00:25:14.430 --> 00:25:16.549 worth of work to an average parcel, an average 00:25:16.549 --> 00:25:19.390 five acre subdivision. So there's a lot of, and 00:25:19.390 --> 00:25:22.990 that's another set of codes. So it's a lot. It's 00:25:22.990 --> 00:25:26.910 challenging to navigate through, but we do it. 00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:29.009 Who gains from that? I mean, I'm thinking about 00:25:29.009 --> 00:25:35.809 that specific example. If you think about it 00:25:35.809 --> 00:25:39.109 without getting on a soapbox, the types of people 00:25:39.109 --> 00:25:42.650 who are writing these codes are generally not 00:25:42.650 --> 00:25:45.109 business minded people. So they might be looking 00:25:45.109 --> 00:25:48.950 at it from a very limited lens. They're not economists. 00:25:49.470 --> 00:25:51.069 They're looking at it. Someone gets in their 00:25:51.069 --> 00:25:54.069 ear and says, Henderson has some beautiful hillsides 00:25:54.069 --> 00:25:57.190 and some beautiful mountain ranges and we need 00:25:57.190 --> 00:26:01.089 to ensure that we develop those properly and 00:26:01.339 --> 00:26:03.980 Again, best laid plans. Of course we want to 00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:06.599 keep the city desirable, but maybe let the market 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.119 determine that instead of legislating it. So 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:13.859 something like that was just a person got in 00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:16.420 an era of a lawmaker and it was, you know what? 00:26:16.460 --> 00:26:19.059 That's a really good idea. I think we should 00:26:19.059 --> 00:26:21.329 do that. We don't want unfettered development 00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:23.970 of our hillsides. I mean, if you drive 15 minutes 00:26:23.970 --> 00:26:25.670 outside of the city, you'll see all the mountains 00:26:25.670 --> 00:26:28.170 and hillsides you want. We need them in Henderson. 00:26:28.809 --> 00:26:30.829 But, and I do understand, I completely understand 00:26:30.829 --> 00:26:32.670 development standards. When you're talking about 00:26:32.670 --> 00:26:35.789 the other codes, again, I think it's the intentions 00:26:35.789 --> 00:26:39.569 are there. It is not the city's job in their 00:26:39.569 --> 00:26:42.470 mind. It's not their mission statement to make 00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:46.220 the city marketable to make building pencil out. 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:49.640 Their job is to preserve the life of their citizenry 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:54.279 and to protect their safety. And another kind 00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.660 of interesting thought, and this is way down 00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:01.440 the rabbit hole, but the city kind of owns your 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.339 property too. You're basically in business with 00:27:04.339 --> 00:27:07.420 your city. And if you don't think that just stop 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:09.630 paying your property taxes for a while. And that 00:27:09.630 --> 00:27:13.049 house becomes theirs. So really every home that's 00:27:13.049 --> 00:27:15.450 built, the city might see as their home. They 00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:17.769 have a vested interest in that home as well. 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:20.809 It's their tax base. So they might own that house 00:27:20.809 --> 00:27:22.630 one day if you're not careful, if you don't have 00:27:22.630 --> 00:27:26.609 your taxes set up on auto pay. So that's, I don't 00:27:26.609 --> 00:27:28.910 know if that's where their minds are at, but 00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:31.289 I do feel like that potentially was where it 00:27:31.289 --> 00:27:35.150 started to say we need regulation. We need standardization. 00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:38.069 We're tired of deploying our entire fire crew 00:27:38.069 --> 00:27:40.569 because someone was running a business in the 00:27:40.569 --> 00:27:42.450 second floor of their house okay now we need 00:27:42.450 --> 00:27:44.869 a zoning code okay you can't do that here oh 00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:47.490 they had all these combustible materials and 00:27:47.490 --> 00:27:50.529 there were no fire escapes and people died and 00:27:50.529 --> 00:27:53.779 kids you know fire crews couldn't get in there 00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:56.359 and the floor collapsed. And I mean, how many 00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:58.680 of those do I say regulations and codes are painted 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.500 and are written in blood? You can see again, 00:28:01.700 --> 00:28:04.460 the intentions are pure, but regulations tend 00:28:04.460 --> 00:28:06.279 to breed regulations and codes tend to breed 00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:09.839 codes. So I feel like that's where we let, we 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.740 opened up Pandora's box. So what is, is a sweet 00:28:12.740 --> 00:28:15.099 spot? Is there a happy medium? Obviously. Do 00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:19.299 I want to go to a Model of pure free market and 00:28:19.299 --> 00:28:21.019 you can build anything anywhere and do I want 00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:22.319 to live in a city like that Do you want to live 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.440 in a city like that? Probably not but you want 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:26.000 to live in a place where it takes three years 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.140 to get to get a home approved or that where there's 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:31.420 a stack of coats this thick just because 500 00:28:31.420 --> 00:28:33.980 feet of your five acre parcel might have a slope 00:28:33.980 --> 00:28:36.900 greater than 25 % and that's hillside probably 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:39.339 not either so I think it's just like everything 00:28:39.339 --> 00:28:43.599 it's common -sense reform and We had a massive 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:45.920 lawsuit with the city of Las Vegas that it's 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.720 about a half a billion dollar settlement for 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.140 one of our golf courses that went belly up and 00:28:51.140 --> 00:28:55.339 was sold to a developer. And the city, as the 00:28:55.339 --> 00:28:58.119 judgment said, deprived him of his use to develop 00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:00.220 that and his enjoyment to develop that parcel 00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:03.859 by putting these roadblocks in to prohibit the 00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:06.859 development starting back from 2000. Eight I 00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:09.140 believe so is it and the settlement just came 00:29:09.140 --> 00:29:10.960 down the line in twenty twenty four so we're 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:14.019 talking it was a what is it sixteen years worth 00:29:14.019 --> 00:29:17.859 of litigation going back and forth so that's 00:29:17.859 --> 00:29:20.000 some of the most egregious examples that might. 00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:23.380 Maybe wake up the city to say look we have to 00:29:23.380 --> 00:29:25.920 find a happy medium here we are growing city 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.420 were desirable city and ultimately people deserve 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:31.660 peaceful enjoyment of the property and that includes 00:29:31.660 --> 00:29:35.319 improving it and making it better and. putting 00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:38.400 it into the city itself. Otherwise, we're a city 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.259 of just raw land, and then we're not a city. 00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:43.420 So it's, it's interesting that it's kind of a 00:29:43.420 --> 00:29:45.880 fine line to walk, right? We want the safety 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:49.039 and the, you know, we want the standardization 00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:51.400 and safety, the standards, right? All of that 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:52.839 that would come from we want to live in a beautiful 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.799 city. That's such a hindrance to some of those. 00:29:55.900 --> 00:30:00.059 It is. Yeah, it is. It's challenging. So I again, 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:02.339 again, I do full wholeheartedly believe that 00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:05.599 regulators and lawmakers have good intentions 00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:07.420 when it comes to building codes. I don't think 00:30:07.420 --> 00:30:09.099 that there's any nefarious because it's really 00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:12.160 hard to track who benefits from it. It's just 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:14.920 that they're not wired that way. Right. They 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:17.940 do. Right. But are there some are there things 00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:20.420 that don't make sense anymore? Right? Exactly. 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.319 That maybe the fair market would would bear out. 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:25.380 So I find it interesting. Yeah, it's interesting 00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:27.119 conversation and things that I hadn't considered. 00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:29.740 I do know that the codes are growing. I do know 00:30:29.740 --> 00:30:32.099 how nefarious those can be. I do know that they're 00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:34.940 all in place and challenges for a lot of things, 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:37.799 but hadn't really considered the the big play 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.480 on all of that. And when you look at those two 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.160 things as the The two sides of the coin, you 00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.200 know, the regulations and and try to be fair. 00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:49.019 Let's just try to be fair to say, OK, well, I 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:51.220 can bellyache all day long about 5000 pages of 00:30:51.220 --> 00:30:54.640 code. But. What are what's their perspective? 00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:57.339 Play the play, play the devil's advocate. God 00:30:57.339 --> 00:30:59.119 knows they don't play that for me, but I'll play 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.099 devil's advocate for that. So it is interesting. 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:04.599 And it's something that I ponder a lot at night, 00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:06.539 you know, before when when everything gets quiet, 00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:10.180 you think I am building their city because cities 00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:12.500 don't. do much building they don't do much in 00:31:12.500 --> 00:31:14.400 the way of building right they might build some 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:16.579 of the municipal buildings but for the most part 00:31:16.579 --> 00:31:19.119 cities are built by private enterprise cities 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:21.079 are built by developers cities are built by people 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:24.380 improving on their own land we are the city and 00:31:24.380 --> 00:31:28.359 it's interesting that sometimes the city is your 00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:31.539 biggest enemy so great so great multiple perspectives 00:31:31.539 --> 00:31:34.799 and lots of thought -provoking topics and conversation 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:39.480 there so Love it. Thank you. Yes. Thank you guys 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:41.460 for joining us. Hopefully you learned something 00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:44.579 today too and kind of get your thoughts going 00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:47.599 on how those things come together and what builders 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.960 and developers are up against in terms of the 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.160 codes and the regulations that go into each bill. 00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:55.759 Thanks for joining us again today and we'll see 00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.339 you next time. Bye bye. Thanks for tuning into 00:32:00.339 --> 00:32:02.859 the Press the Process podcast. Make sure to follow 00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.400 us on Spotify to stay in the loop with the latest 00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:07.980 insights, project updates, and everything in 00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:09.559 between. See you next time.