WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.060 Ever wonder what really happens behind the scenes 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:05.379 in construction, real estate, and development? 00:00:06.019 --> 00:00:08.240 We pull back the curtain on the new home construction 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:11.060 industry, the real estate market, and the trends 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:14.080 shaping it all. Discover the stories, insights, 00:00:14.259 --> 00:00:16.239 and expertise behind the process of building 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:19.640 a new home. Join us for Trust the Process podcast, 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:22.719 and let's build something great together. Welcome 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:25.739 back to Trust the Process podcast, where we talk 00:00:25.739 --> 00:00:30.059 about new homes, the real estate industry. construction 00:00:30.059 --> 00:00:33.979 and everything in between. Today we are going 00:00:33.979 --> 00:00:35.899 to talk a little bit about walkability and that's 00:00:35.899 --> 00:00:37.640 something that we have touched on a few times. 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.780 It comes up. I feel like it's come up enough 00:00:40.780 --> 00:00:43.670 times that it's sort of words. I think so. its 00:00:43.670 --> 00:00:47.189 own episode. So focusing on that some of the 00:00:47.189 --> 00:00:49.570 zoning, which is how we've talked about it in 00:00:49.570 --> 00:00:51.609 the past subdivision stuff, kind of how that 00:00:51.609 --> 00:00:54.990 comes into play. And there's a lot other countries 00:00:54.990 --> 00:00:57.350 that are more walkability. And so what that means 00:00:57.350 --> 00:01:00.609 older cities, cities, East Coast has a lot of 00:01:00.609 --> 00:01:02.329 lots of walkability lifestyle. And some of that 00:01:02.329 --> 00:01:05.760 I think maybe came over. With probably and, and 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:07.579 because some of those cities predated the car 00:01:07.579 --> 00:01:09.480 maybe. Yeah. And we, you know, when our cities 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.319 are built around the car, which is kind of at 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.159 odds with walkability. If you think about what's 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.019 good for the car is not good for the pedestrian 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.099 in general. Right. And, and we've had a push 00:01:18.099 --> 00:01:19.819 pull in the last hundred years and the car one. 00:01:20.620 --> 00:01:22.599 Right. And I think a lot of that is not just 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:25.439 legislation or this grand conspiracy by general 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:26.980 motors, even though they did buy all the street 00:01:26.980 --> 00:01:29.620 cars and the, and the Northeastern seaboard. 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.700 between them and Bridgestone Tire Company bought 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:35.140 and shut down the streetcar lines. A little trivia. 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:36.959 We only went back 100 years on that one. We usually 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:38.439 go back a lot farther. We're always going to 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:40.459 get that little tidbit of history where we can. 00:01:40.540 --> 00:01:43.000 Walking started about two million years ago. 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:48.780 We came from all fours. So that's how I look 00:01:48.780 --> 00:01:50.840 at it. As a developer, I think that the car and 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:53.500 the pedestrian are at odds with each other. And 00:01:53.500 --> 00:01:55.560 although we do our best to try to do mixed use 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.060 neighborhoods or make our suburbs walkable, It's 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:01.400 you really need a few factors. You need the pedestrian 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.060 to feel safe. You need density. And then you 00:02:05.060 --> 00:02:08.099 need a destination. So if you look at a walkability 00:02:08.099 --> 00:02:10.439 score, Zillow and this third party syndication 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.219 sites have walkability scores and you'll never 00:02:13.219 --> 00:02:15.199 really see a suburb with a walkability score 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.060 higher than in the 70s. Usually goes zero to 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:19.400 100. And in fact, a lot of them are under 10 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.539 or under 15. And I don't exactly know what goes 00:02:22.539 --> 00:02:24.219 into the formula. I don't even know if it's public 00:02:24.219 --> 00:02:25.900 information. They just kind of come up with a 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:28.719 walkability score. But the way I look at a Michael 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:32.800 walkability score is how is the density? So that 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.219 is shorthand for what's the distances between 00:02:35.219 --> 00:02:37.740 here and where you're walking. People are only 00:02:37.740 --> 00:02:41.379 willing to walk, you know, maybe a mile, mile 00:02:41.379 --> 00:02:43.199 or two. You might start to see resistance at 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:44.699 a two mile because then it's a four mile round 00:02:44.699 --> 00:02:46.939 trip. It's over an hour of walking. That's a 00:02:46.939 --> 00:02:49.500 lot of walking. That's a lot. And there are times 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:51.780 throughout the year where you just in our city 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.719 here. Right, right, right. 110. Right. And a 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.960 mile long walk is good. Yeah, exactly. Not good 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.599 for your health. Yeah. So if you look at those 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:03.539 things, and then you got to look at the safety 00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:05.259 of the pedestrian. And we talked about this in 00:03:05.259 --> 00:03:06.960 one of our other episodes, we're talking about 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.610 a subdivision and street widths and Minimums 00:03:09.610 --> 00:03:12.110 and you know sidewalks on both sides. So in one 00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:14.770 in one hand the city is saying put a sidewalk 00:03:14.770 --> 00:03:16.490 around your entire cul -de -sac Even though you're 00:03:16.490 --> 00:03:19.129 only 300 feet from the main roads cul -de -sac 00:03:19.129 --> 00:03:20.810 or the main streets cul -de -sac. I mean, I'm 00:03:20.810 --> 00:03:23.530 sorry the main street sidewalk We want a sidewalk 00:03:23.530 --> 00:03:26.169 to go this extra hundred and thirty feet. It's 00:03:26.169 --> 00:03:27.490 really nothing I mean, I don't even know how 00:03:27.490 --> 00:03:30.090 long it take you to walk 130 feet probably under 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:32.909 30 seconds, right? So I get that they're doing 00:03:32.909 --> 00:03:35.449 the walkability there great the same breath. 00:03:35.449 --> 00:03:37.719 They're saying your street is too narrow We're 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:39.300 not going to give you a waiver. We want you to 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:43.599 do a 47 foot wide, not a 33. Wide streets, scientifically, 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.099 are less pedestrian friendly from a psychological 00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:50.139 standpoint. When they pull pedestrians and their 00:03:50.139 --> 00:03:53.219 overall safety score of a certain route, its 00:03:53.219 --> 00:03:56.419 street width is a huge Factor and people don't 00:03:56.419 --> 00:03:58.699 even realize that they just feel it. They say 00:03:58.699 --> 00:04:00.479 why don't I don't want to walk on this road? 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:02.159 I don't I don't want my kid riding his bike on 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.919 this road. I don't like it. So you look at horizontal 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:08.120 distance i .e. street width and then the vertical 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.180 element. So if you're hemmed in by something 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:14.919 tall next to you and a narrow street, that's 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:17.470 the most pedestrian friendly. And then it goes 00:04:17.470 --> 00:04:19.509 out from there. The farther out, there's actually 00:04:19.509 --> 00:04:22.610 a ratio on a YouTube channel called City Beautiful. 00:04:22.689 --> 00:04:25.230 And he's a really, really intelligent city planner. 00:04:25.550 --> 00:04:27.730 And he breaks it all down. I wish I could find 00:04:27.730 --> 00:04:30.149 a link, maybe we can embed it. He has, there's 00:04:30.149 --> 00:04:32.529 a kind of a good golden ratio. You want a certain 00:04:32.529 --> 00:04:35.370 amount of height. Now at the same time, if you 00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:38.389 go to lower Manhattan or financial district, 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:41.910 sometimes the height is too much. So the height. 00:04:42.089 --> 00:04:45.269 You know can be overwhelming depending on but 00:04:45.269 --> 00:04:47.589 generally speaking you're going to max out this 00:04:47.589 --> 00:04:49.129 more than you quicker than you're going to max 00:04:49.129 --> 00:04:51.410 this out. People will tolerate walking next 100 00:04:51.410 --> 00:04:53.769 story office buildings more than all tolerate 00:04:53.769 --> 00:04:57.050 400 foot wide Boulevard. They're just not going 00:04:57.050 --> 00:04:59.790 to walk in Houston. Let's say these big wide 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:01.790 boulevards and they call them strode. They're 00:05:01.790 --> 00:05:04.779 not streets. They're not roads and they're First 00:05:04.779 --> 00:05:08.639 of all, the horizontal plane is so wide, you 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:11.060 don't feel comfortable. If you think evolutionary, 00:05:11.139 --> 00:05:12.540 ooh, we are gonna go back to two million years. 00:05:13.019 --> 00:05:16.180 Evolutionarily, I think you're more alert. You 00:05:16.180 --> 00:05:19.300 feel like you're more on a prairie. There's more 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:21.199 threats to you. There's more that could come 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:24.019 up on you. So that horizontal element. Then the 00:05:24.019 --> 00:05:26.079 kicker of this is, since the invention of the 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.399 car, that horizontal element now involves 3 ,000 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.470 pound, 4 ,000 pound. Four -wheeled vehicles with 00:05:32.470 --> 00:05:35.970 people driving texting and going 35 45 miles 00:05:35.970 --> 00:05:39.470 an hour going faster because it's wider Those 00:05:39.470 --> 00:05:41.850 like them. Yeah, exactly. You feel like you can 00:05:41.850 --> 00:05:44.930 I mean you're you just naturally do you go down 00:05:44.930 --> 00:05:47.329 into old East Coast cities or in Europe they 00:05:47.329 --> 00:05:50.370 have streets with trees between the street and 00:05:50.370 --> 00:05:52.310 the sidewalk then the sidewalk and then there's 00:05:52.310 --> 00:05:55.329 a Four or five -story building next to that the 00:05:55.329 --> 00:05:57.430 drivers just drive slower and then as many times 00:05:57.430 --> 00:05:59.589 there's cars parked on both sides drive slower, 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:02.129 everything there is queuing the driver to slow 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:05.230 down, and therefore making the pedestrian feel 00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:08.569 safer. So if you look at those factors, so you 00:06:08.569 --> 00:06:12.670 can have virtually queuing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:06:12.689 --> 00:06:15.110 Right. And it was it was a function of these 00:06:15.110 --> 00:06:17.490 were designed for horses and carriages. And now 00:06:17.490 --> 00:06:19.910 we're trying to fit cars on them. So what was 00:06:19.910 --> 00:06:23.509 a haphazard retrofit actually ended up to make 00:06:23.509 --> 00:06:26.569 some really great walkable cities. Then with 00:06:26.569 --> 00:06:29.360 that, With these roads and everything being narrower 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.720 and different zoning laws or no zone zoning laws. 00:06:32.899 --> 00:06:35.160 So many of these cities were built. You stacked 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:38.139 everything was stacked, especially after I would 00:06:38.139 --> 00:06:40.639 have invented the elevator more history. Uh, 00:06:40.699 --> 00:06:42.180 this one's full of all the ones that were our 00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:43.480 previous episodes. I've been slipping a little 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.100 bit. I think I'm trying to pack them all in here. 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:47.139 And I did not think an episode on walkability 00:06:47.139 --> 00:06:49.500 would have so much history in it, but When Otis 00:06:49.500 --> 00:06:52.639 invented the elevator, we could start stacking 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.139 up and it became a status symbol to live on the 00:06:55.139 --> 00:06:57.399 top floors versus a status symbol to live on 00:06:57.399 --> 00:06:59.639 the ground level or the mezzanine level. Penthouse 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.920 is kind of an invention of the 1870s onward. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:05.560 The Dakota apartment building in New York City 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.480 was one of the first that had a penthouse and 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.399 it was planned around a square and they kind 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:13.000 of created a park space in the middle and I don't 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:14.660 know how tall the Dakota was. I think it was 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:18.930 maybe in the 20s floors. And I think it was built 00:07:18.930 --> 00:07:21.930 in the late 1890s and through the 20s was kind 00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:24.129 of a Tatey, the Gilded Age and all that in the 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:27.389 growing 20s. And that was a status symbol to 00:07:27.389 --> 00:07:31.329 leave your uptown. Townhouse and live in a high 00:07:31.329 --> 00:07:33.709 -rise in the penthouse So anyway moral the story 00:07:33.709 --> 00:07:36.769 is you had tall buildings that hemmed in your 00:07:36.769 --> 00:07:39.610 visual cues And you didn't have minimum street 00:07:39.610 --> 00:07:41.550 widths because it just weren't designed. It was 00:07:41.550 --> 00:07:43.769 no need to conceive of it it's probably designed 00:07:43.769 --> 00:07:47.149 to be a sidewalk a market stall and wrote room 00:07:47.149 --> 00:07:50.230 for a Horse, you know in the original lower Manhattan 00:07:50.230 --> 00:07:52.329 and Philadelphia and Boston That's kind of how 00:07:52.329 --> 00:07:54.490 they would have been laid out and most of the 00:07:54.490 --> 00:07:57.110 cities in Europe laid out that way. So it was 00:07:57.110 --> 00:07:59.730 just a recipe to be walkable because that is 00:07:59.730 --> 00:08:02.149 the default for civilization was to walk to your 00:08:02.149 --> 00:08:05.170 destination. So it's no, what we're living in 00:08:05.170 --> 00:08:06.810 now is the abomination. What we're living in 00:08:06.810 --> 00:08:09.990 now is the abnormality, right? So we're trying 00:08:09.990 --> 00:08:13.089 to correct that. That's a push, I would say from 00:08:13.089 --> 00:08:16.430 the nineties onward, maybe even later, this whole 00:08:16.430 --> 00:08:18.569 idea of mixed use, this whole idea of neighborhood 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:20.889 centers, you know, Green Valley Ranch has done 00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:25.269 it or Yeah, Green Valley Ranch. Yeah, they tried. 00:08:25.790 --> 00:08:28.129 Right. Even the downtown, you know, that revitalization. 00:08:28.430 --> 00:08:31.649 Yeah. And a lot of these. Yeah. Above. Right. 00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:35.610 And hope. But again, it doesn't catch because 00:08:35.610 --> 00:08:38.070 there's not enough. So what we've done here, 00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:40.230 it's been a commercial endeavor because it's 00:08:40.230 --> 00:08:44.129 easier to zone single use. So the commercial 00:08:44.129 --> 00:08:45.909 is generally highest and best use of a piece 00:08:45.909 --> 00:08:47.990 of land. If it can do it, if it can sustain it, 00:08:48.009 --> 00:08:49.850 commercials are way better return on your investment. 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:52.970 for the same development costs, right? Because 00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:55.149 it is a rarer zoning classification and you have 00:08:55.149 --> 00:08:56.429 to have the demand for it. So you have to have 00:08:56.429 --> 00:08:59.590 the traffic and the roads. So you get this commercial 00:08:59.590 --> 00:09:02.850 center, downtown Summerlin and parts of downtown 00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:05.870 revitalization districts nationwide, Tivoli, 00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:08.929 those kinds of places. They're commercial centers 00:09:08.929 --> 00:09:11.259 first. They're not there's not a residential 00:09:11.259 --> 00:09:15.259 component to it. Not not particularly. So that's 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:17.519 because especially not first. It's it's just 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:21.620 so challenging to mix that use and mix a residential 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:23.759 building that has a commercial component to it. 00:09:23.860 --> 00:09:25.259 East Coast, you can find that all day long. They're 00:09:25.259 --> 00:09:27.519 all grandfathered in. It's really common back 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:30.700 there. So without that mix mixture of uses, you 00:09:30.700 --> 00:09:33.200 don't have the destinations. So why would someone 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.080 go drive, park their car and then walk around 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:37.820 the commercial under they do it, we do it all 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:41.139 the time. But it's not full walkability. There's 00:09:41.139 --> 00:09:43.480 still a car component to it. They're still off 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.399 shoot parking and parking garages and things 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:46.700 like that. Don't get me wrong. I still think 00:09:46.700 --> 00:09:48.940 that's a better iteration of a retail center 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:51.860 than a shopping mall in my opinion. Just my opinion. 00:09:51.980 --> 00:09:53.539 I think it feels it breathes better. It lives 00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:56.779 better. Um, it's not climatized, which is weird 00:09:56.779 --> 00:09:58.639 because you could argue that we started there 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:00.360 and we went to malls because they're climatized, 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:03.019 but people like outdoor shopping. So until we 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:04.860 start mixing that, we're not going to see walkability 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:07.659 in the suburbs. And you look, Oh, throughout 00:10:07.659 --> 00:10:10.220 the country, even in new development on the East 00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:12.759 Coast. DC is notorious for having this outside. 00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:15.100 I think it's in Arlington or maybe even a suburb 00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:19.039 of Arlington. And they've tried to catch these 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.659 multi -family mixed use. Florida's big on it. 00:10:23.500 --> 00:10:26.360 It just doesn't land. And it's not associated 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:29.340 oddly enough with status. So I think that's part 00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:34.620 of it too. I think people see you aspire to be 00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:37.690 spread out. You aspire for low density. You start 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:40.370 in an apartment, you end at a house. Maybe you 00:10:40.370 --> 00:10:42.289 circle back to a condo when you're old age, right? 00:10:42.649 --> 00:10:46.490 But I feel that it's culturally too. You aspire 00:10:46.490 --> 00:10:49.190 to have a home on a half acre, a quarter acre. 00:10:49.269 --> 00:10:52.149 You aspire to have that. So we don't have that 00:10:52.149 --> 00:10:55.549 aspirational aspect of it on the mixed use, which 00:10:55.549 --> 00:10:57.509 until we do that, until we have a mixture of 00:10:57.509 --> 00:10:59.250 incomes, mixture of housing products, a mixture 00:10:59.250 --> 00:11:02.389 of uses, a mixture of intensities. You know, 00:11:02.429 --> 00:11:06.460 is this an intensely zoned? retail center is 00:11:06.460 --> 00:11:09.480 it kind of just got some retail like how you 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.399 downtown Santa Barbara or something where you'd 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:13.899 say okay there's a little shop or Sedona or something 00:11:13.899 --> 00:11:18.120 pretty low impact right but until we see that 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.100 I don't think we're going to see it the market's 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:23.299 going to have to want it before this the political 00:11:23.299 --> 00:11:24.740 pressure is going to be there to allow it so 00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:27.879 I think it's a chicken does zoning prohibit that 00:11:27.879 --> 00:11:31.070 or does it encourage is there In our city and 00:11:31.070 --> 00:11:32.870 in most cities, you have to do an assemblage. 00:11:33.049 --> 00:11:35.570 So you have to get a big enough parcel. Usually 00:11:35.570 --> 00:11:38.450 it's around 25 acres, they have it declassified. 00:11:38.450 --> 00:11:40.289 So you can have a planning unit development as 00:11:40.289 --> 00:11:43.090 small as five acres and then 10. When you're 00:11:43.090 --> 00:11:44.669 looking at commercial would be a neighborhood 00:11:44.669 --> 00:11:47.110 center and then a power center and then, you 00:11:47.110 --> 00:11:49.570 know, you kind of go up, there's actually cutoffs 00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:52.110 for them on a parcel size. So until you get to 00:11:52.110 --> 00:11:54.870 mixed use, you really have got to get up to around 00:11:54.870 --> 00:11:58.289 that 25 to 50 acres. So now you're looking at 00:11:58.289 --> 00:12:00.850 a developer who can take that kind of project 00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:03.330 on very capital intensive, and they're pulling 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:06.690 in multiple specialties. So generally, you have 00:12:06.690 --> 00:12:08.970 one developer that's really great at developing 00:12:08.970 --> 00:12:11.909 office complexes, one that's really great at 00:12:11.909 --> 00:12:14.950 developing commercial neighborhood centers, power 00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:17.929 centers, and then a residential developer that's 00:12:17.929 --> 00:12:21.730 pretty good to me decently good mediocre at developing 00:12:21.730 --> 00:12:25.759 residential maybe So it's hard to get all those 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:27.720 combined and think that where it's worked really 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:29.340 well. There's a couple examples in Florida where 00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:32.440 it's worked pretty well. One maybe land developer, 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.200 similar to how we have a master plan here, they'll 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:38.100 develop the idea, the parks, the other amenities, 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:40.679 and sell the individual parcels to homebuilders. 00:12:40.899 --> 00:12:44.059 So you'll see that there's the one in DC I was 00:12:44.059 --> 00:12:47.360 mentioning, they bought the big acreage, and 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.700 sold to the office to people that do offices 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:52.080 really well sold to commercial those and so on 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:54.769 and so forth. invented those builders to say, 00:12:54.889 --> 00:12:56.629 okay, you're going to build a multifamily product 00:12:56.629 --> 00:12:58.509 who told brothers is really good at building 00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:01.590 luxury multifamily product. KB is good at building 00:13:01.590 --> 00:13:03.409 and when I was good at building the entry level 00:13:03.409 --> 00:13:05.210 multifamily product, and they kind of bring in 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:08.710 that assortment of offerings and capture and 00:13:08.710 --> 00:13:11.289 lean on that builder to have a financial incentive 00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:14.370 to say, we're going to brand this as an aspirational 00:13:14.370 --> 00:13:17.220 place to be. We're going to say you can aspire 00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:20.139 for a condo because it's a $2 million condo is 00:13:20.139 --> 00:13:21.940 very luxurious. You have amenities that you're 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:24.200 not going to get in a single family home. So 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.610 I think that We're getting there and maybe maybe 00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:28.830 the future is a mixture of everything like it 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:30.710 has been the last 20 years has been a mixture 00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:33.330 of everything predominantly single family zoning. 00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:36.490 What do you see apartments that surround I'm 00:13:36.490 --> 00:13:38.809 thinking about summerland center in specific 00:13:38.809 --> 00:13:42.090 there's there are apartments nearby that you 00:13:42.090 --> 00:13:44.330 write it in that kind of give that it's not necessarily 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:47.759 in the center but. That's not purchase it's not 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:49.500 home so right purchase right so you have that 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:51.820 community field yeah so you're you know you've 00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:53.779 got a very transient and again people look at 00:13:53.779 --> 00:13:56.399 apartments as transient and you aspire to be 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.059 somewhere else so you have to build an aspirational. 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.250 aspect of it so and i don't think necessarily 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:05.149 that we have to do something i'm passionate about 00:14:05.149 --> 00:14:09.110 but i live in the most non -walkable uh suburb 00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:11.549 that you know i could pick in an already pretty 00:14:11.549 --> 00:14:14.370 much unwalkable city so look what i chose i mean 00:14:14.370 --> 00:14:16.690 it's it's fun i mean i'm not saying everyone 00:14:16.690 --> 00:14:18.289 should live like that i just feel like it'd be 00:14:18.289 --> 00:14:19.929 neat if we saw more of it and i think it would 00:14:19.929 --> 00:14:22.450 lead to more vibrant cities and also the city 00:14:22.450 --> 00:14:25.950 that takes up a lot less land when you think 00:14:25.950 --> 00:14:28.889 about how big las vegas could get phoenix could 00:14:28.889 --> 00:14:32.419 get When, if you zoned it, even with the missing 00:14:32.419 --> 00:14:34.399 middle that we talked about in the previous podcast, 00:14:34.779 --> 00:14:37.019 you doesn't only need to be zoned downtown. But 00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:38.980 what about that missing middle, that mid -rise, 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.600 that four to eight story, a lot of mixed juice. 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:45.519 You could fit a lot of amenities and a lot of 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.779 people. And then, so let's say every morning 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:50.799 I get up and go to Orange Theory, right? And 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.039 that is a trip. But if I lived in a walkable 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.700 area, I'd walk to it. So yeah, you got a lot 00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:57.200 of people and you'd say, oh, what about traffic, 00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.059 traffic, traffic? Yeah, but some of my trips, 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:00.919 if there was a grocery store, a lot of my trips 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.399 would be walkable. And I would have our office, 00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:06.659 which is actually really close to my home. I 00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:09.720 have to drive there. I can't I mapped I couldn't 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.320 walk it. I have to cross have to get out of my 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.240 neighborhood cross a major four lane road, then 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.500 cross an eight lane inner highway. the 215. And 00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:24.120 then a bunch of other two lane streets with signalized 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.600 intersections and stop signs. So just it's not 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.519 it's not possible. So I think about the amount 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.840 of trips I have my trips would be cut down 30, 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:34.639 you know, they'd be 30 % of what they are. So 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:36.779 I think that that would cut down on traffic and 00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:38.720 it'd be more sustainable. Well, we'll just see 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.899 I mean, we'll see what the next gender how the 00:15:40.899 --> 00:15:43.360 next generation Wants to live and that's gonna 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:45.600 dictate it previous generations wanted to live 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.960 that way, right? You know, so that was the norm 00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:50.659 for them. That's all they knew Yeah, maybe maybe 00:15:50.659 --> 00:15:52.500 that's why they're not away from it because it 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:55.340 feels again. It's aspirational Yeah, my parents 00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:59.379 of this I aspire to do this So I think that if 00:15:59.379 --> 00:16:02.039 you also look at back even just a few generations 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.179 ago my grandmother still going, never go to bike 00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:07.399 and never had driver's license. So she lives 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.960 in New York, she, she does she walks everywhere 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:13.639 takes the city bus, or my cousins bring her my 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.000 uncle brings her and they all take care of her. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.080 So the idea of her living out in a suburb would 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.259 just be anathema to everything that she's ever 00:16:21.259 --> 00:16:24.679 grown up thinking is just No, I'm not. Why would 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:27.320 I do that? So it's it's as crazy as putting one 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.750 of us in a You know for for walk up. Yeah, just 00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:33.190 transportation and get you guys on the bus. She's 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:36.750 92 years old. She gets on the bus. That's not 00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:40.330 just doesn't happen much. No, it doesn't happen 00:16:40.330 --> 00:16:42.210 here as much as it does in other cities. Right. 00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:44.450 Obviously, we don't we have I mean, over the 00:16:44.450 --> 00:16:47.649 years, they have done a lot they have to. I think 00:16:47.649 --> 00:16:49.549 a lot of suburban cities have Phoenix has tried 00:16:49.549 --> 00:16:51.970 to try and increase the different routes and 00:16:51.970 --> 00:16:55.590 then, you know, make it quicker. And it's still 00:16:55.590 --> 00:16:59.070 isn't people's go to method for transport. No, 00:16:59.070 --> 00:17:00.730 it's not. And then we weren't really ever laid 00:17:00.730 --> 00:17:02.409 out that way. So it's always going to be fitting 00:17:02.409 --> 00:17:04.630 a circle into a square because I bet you I've 00:17:04.630 --> 00:17:06.430 never done it. But I bet you to take a bus from 00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:09.869 anywhere around here to the center of town. would 00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:12.589 be a 20 mile 20 minute drive for me probably 00:17:12.589 --> 00:17:15.109 two hour bus ride multiple stops and transfers 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:17.769 and right you're stopping and I don't know what 00:17:17.769 --> 00:17:19.430 they express lane I don't I don't know how that 00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:20.990 works but I mean I just imagine it's not laid 00:17:20.990 --> 00:17:22.849 out like that was never designed to be that way 00:17:22.849 --> 00:17:25.990 so passionate about walkability I think a lot 00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:28.349 of our zoning laws are at odds with it minimum 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:31.390 street widths and you think about our little 00:17:31.390 --> 00:17:34.259 subdivisions and how an extra 10 feet of street, 00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:37.599 it really adds up and it makes a city sprawl. 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:41.180 Minimum lot sizes, it makes it sprawl and then 00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:43.140 sprawl breeds sprawl because then more people 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:45.700 need cars. So then more people want houses that 00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:47.099 accommodate cars and streets that accommodate 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:50.079 cars and multigenerational living. And I love 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.119 that when a builder will build a multigenerational. 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.579 4000 square foot house with a two car garage 00:17:54.579 --> 00:17:56.839 and a two car driveway. Where are the people 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:58.759 that are living in this 4000 square foot home 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.079 going to park their cars? Where are they going? 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.099 Where is grandma's living with you? Where is 00:18:03.099 --> 00:18:07.900 she going to park? So it just I again, I think 00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:10.920 it's it's going to be market driven. And it's 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.400 going to be maybe an evolution. And it's going 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:15.740 to take some public policy. It's also going to 00:18:15.740 --> 00:18:18.099 take some loaning that some changes in lending. 00:18:18.719 --> 00:18:21.119 Um, so if you think about how challenging it 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:23.180 is to get a condo loan versus a single family 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:25.559 home, there's so many factors that are set up 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.339 for the way that we're, that we're building and 00:18:28.339 --> 00:18:31.880 built to this day. So I don't think it'll be 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:33.940 a mile. I don't think I'll be building multifamily 00:18:33.940 --> 00:18:35.660 walkable communities. It's just not, I don't 00:18:35.660 --> 00:18:38.039 think it would take so long for the tides to 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.779 change and for people to actually want that and 00:18:40.779 --> 00:18:44.359 for it to be marketable. But it is an interesting 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:47.279 topic, and a lot of people from other cities 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.160 see it as a viable way to change things. And 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:52.819 so you get asked, why aren't we building more 00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:54.539 of that? Why don't we have some of that in our 00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:57.500 lives anymore? So yeah, worth mentioning and 00:18:57.500 --> 00:18:59.079 a good one. And like I said, it's come up in 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:00.980 several of the podcasting episodes that we've 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:03.740 talked about. We touch on it here and there, 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:05.880 but so kind of diving into it a little bit further. 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:07.940 Thank you. Yeah, of course. It was fun to talk 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:11.519 about. And thank you guys for joining us and 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:13.900 we will see you next time on Trust the Process 00:19:13.900 --> 00:19:18.640 podcast. Bye bye. Thanks for tuning into the 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.920 Trust the Process podcast. Make sure to follow 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.480 us on Spotify to stay in the loop with the latest 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.079 insights, project updates, and everything in 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:27.700 between. See you next time.