1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Ever wonder what really happens behind the scenes in construction, real estate, and development? 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,000 We pull back the curtain on the new home construction industry, the real estate market, and the trends shaping it all. 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Discover the stories, insights, and expertise behind the process of building a new home. 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:22,000 Join us for Trust the Process podcast, and let's build something great together. 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,000 Welcome back to Trust the Process, podcast where we talk about the real estate market, 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,000 new home construction, and everything in between. 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Today we're going to dive a little bit deeper into land. 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 How much land is there, what's available, what can we do with it? 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:46,000 So a lot to kind of dive into there, and I'm going to let you take the lead and just run with it. 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Thank you. 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,000 And I was thinking about how if I had to title this episode, it would be Where is the Land? 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Where is the Land? 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Where is the Land? 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,000 Where is the Land? 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,000 Where is the Land? 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:07,000 So that's how I got the inspiration to talk about this topic, because when you drive around in most cities, 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:16,000 even in densely populated northeastern cities, if you go 25 to 30 minutes in at least one or two of the directions, 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,000 maybe if you leave New York City and you head directly north, you have City City City in south, 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:28,000 then you start hitting rural land, you start hitting a rural field within 30 to 45 minutes of driving. 20 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:33,000 And the East Coast has had a lot of time to develop, and you still hit that pretty quickly. 21 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:40,000 In Nevada, and a lot of the fast growing Sunbelt stays even Texas, which has had a long time to grow too, 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:49,000 you hit blank land quickly, and you must ponder that where is all the land? 23 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Why are we in a land shortage on paper, but not in reality? 24 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,000 If we were to drop an alien into any major U.S. city and you said, 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:09,000 believe it or not, one of our scarcest assets as a city is our land, they would beam you up and shoot you into a comet. 26 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Especially in a state like Nevada, where you can get in the car and drive from here to Reno, 27 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,000 northern Nevada, southern Nevada, and it's nothing but land. 28 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,000 It's all land. 29 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Yeah, you can't. 30 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Right. 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:29,000 So it's something that I get asked a lot just in passing among friends and colleagues and people in the industry and people that I interact with. 32 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Why is it said that there's a land shortage? 33 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,000 So there's a lot of factors at play here. 34 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:42,000 If you're in an East Coast state or an established state and you drive 20 minutes outside of Charlotte, 35 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:48,000 you hit raw land quickly and you hit farmland and you hit just nothing. 36 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:58,000 It's basically prairies and flats and woods and all these things that you feel like could easily be developed into housing or into more cities. 37 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,000 I mean, ultimately we're a growing country and many of our states are growing, 38 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,000 especially about 15 of them are growing enormous clip. 39 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:11,000 And when you really look at it, it's a lot of factors at play here. 40 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,000 No one wants to live in a house with no running water. 41 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 No one wants to live in a house with no electricity. 42 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,000 No one wants to live right off the grid. 43 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,000 So if you look at what limits a lot of development on the East Coast, 44 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,000 it's a fragmented land ownership, right? 45 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,000 Because all of that land is spoken for. 46 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Someone owns it. 47 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,000 And we'll talk about numbers and how that plays out and how that bears out in terms of ownership. 48 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:40,000 But most land east of the Mississippi is owned by private parties, right? 49 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,000 And that's it. 50 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Some sort of wildlife preserve or something that was maybe donated or something that was part of Teddy Roosevelt's push for national parks. 51 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,000 And there's definitely federal land east of the Mississippi. 52 00:03:52,000 --> 00:04:00,000 But for the most part, land that is being developed east of the Mississippi was bought by a private citizen, right? 53 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,000 And developed. 54 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,000 But why does all the raw land not just get developed then? 55 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:11,000 What props up New York housing prices when there's so much raw land on Long Island, 56 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:17,000 when there's so much in eastern Pennsylvania that could be a wonderful master plan suburb for New York City? 57 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Well, a lot of it is infrastructure and the grid and the water grid. 58 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,000 I mean, not just the power grid. 59 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,000 What does the water supply look like? 60 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,000 What do we do with waste? 61 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,000 What do we do with streets? 62 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:42,000 Where's the political will to spend money on improving the roads and then making another exit ramp for a thousand rooftop master plan community outside of Philadelphia? 63 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Well, there's not much political will, right? 64 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Because people will say, why can't you improve my street corner? 65 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,000 Why can't you improve my schools? 66 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Why are we building a new school for this community? 67 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,000 So it is the land, but it's the is that land viable? 68 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,000 What does that pencil out if you're building that subdivision? 69 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Let's say you're a master plan developer and you're putting a thousand or two thousand rooftops in. 70 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,000 What school district are they going to go to? 71 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,000 Are you going to fund those schools? 72 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Does the project still pencil if you do all that? 73 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,000 Can you assemble enough land to make all that work? 74 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Can you assemble the capital? 75 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Can you deploy the capital? 76 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Can you get those things approved? 77 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Can you get the infrastructure in place? 78 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Do you have those headwinds? 79 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,000 Are they insurmountable? 80 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Does the market warrant the end of day sales price that it would take to get it to that? 81 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,000 So that's why a lot of times in the East Coast, you'll see much more spot building because it just doesn't make sense. 82 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000 It's too much to ask of a local jurisdiction. 83 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,000 It's also much more fragmented back there. 84 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,000 Many times counties are a friend of mine just told me he was from Georgia. 85 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000 He said counties in Georgia are basically the boundaries of previous plantations. 86 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:55,000 And if you look at county maps at the state level, they're really small on the East Coast. 87 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,000 And yeah, maybe in the South, the Grarian culture that they were plantations. 88 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,000 And in the North, there are probably county seats dictated by the crown, right? 89 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,000 And they were small, small, little governing bodies. 90 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:12,000 And those bodies don't have the budget to do the capital improvements that would require the growth. 91 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:18,000 And the landowners don't want to part with their land if the value of it is a tenth of what they thought. 92 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Because it's just not a commercially viable venture to develop it into whatever it is. 93 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:29,000 So you have to see the kind of pressures on price and pressures on inbound migration to the area. 94 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:39,000 And enough depreciation or obsolescence of the existing housing stock to justify that land value, to justify that growth. 95 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000 So a lot of the Southeast is growing. 96 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:48,000 A lot of the Southeast has fewer of those barriers because their number one is an appetite for growth. 97 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:53,000 So the state and local governments maybe prop it up a little bit more with subsidies. 98 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,000 There's not as much investment into their school districts. 99 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,000 You can just see as a per capita basis, the southeastern states don't invest as much. 100 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:05,000 So maybe they're not as concerned with the load that that 2,000 homes puts on the school district. 101 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,000 They want the growth in the tax base. 102 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:13,000 The scarcity of water is not as much as a concern as let's say in the Southwest. 103 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000 And electricity grid is kind of the other lynchpin. 104 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:22,000 But if that's something you can overcome, then you pretty much have a recipe for a lot of growth, 105 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:31,000 which is why a lot of those southeastern states, Georgia, I mean, Atlanta has exploded and Charlotte Metro, Raleigh, a lot of South Carolina. 106 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Obviously, Florida has grown tremendously because it has all those factors and there's a lot of inbound migration. 107 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:51,000 So you don't even need to factor in the obsolescence of the current housing stock because there is no relative to the growth of the population and what kind of inbound numbers and population swings they've seen in the last two decades. 108 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 So that's why you see the growth there. 109 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:12,000 And then because the land is fragmented and owned by thousands of different people, you can it's easier to pick off 10 acres here and 15 acres there and 30 acres here and you can kind of use the existing infrastructure until you can get those capital improvements to continue to expand, 110 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:30,000 which is interesting to watch those growth rings of those East Coast cities, it's much more fragmented in little arteries along existing infrastructure versus our cities to the west of the Mississippi, even most of Dallas Metro, kind of these logical concentric rings, 111 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:36,000 because it was wherever the political will was there to extend the infrastructure to the urban growth boundary. 112 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Well, jurisdictions call it that but it's effectively what it is. So urban growth boundary, right? It's okay. We're going to annex to here as a city into the county. 113 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:55,000 We're going to bring the infrastructure in and we're going to increase our tax base through this development. A lot of times those those call outs are as part of an approval process, right? 114 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:10,000 And we're going to say we're going to buy 500 acres of Clark County land. We're going to work a deal with the city of Las Vegas and we're going to annex it. We're going to have a special improvement district that's going to fractionally charge each homeowner, what we call a SID, 115 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:26,000 and they'll pay for an increments of $10,000, $12,000 per home site over 15 years. They'll pay for those capital improvements. The city will put up a bond to grow. And that's why you'll see these kind of logical growth patterns in these western cities. 116 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:41,000 Number one, because of that. Number two, because the land largely, at least in Nevada, is held by is a federal or federal lands. So if you look at why the cities grow differently, that's kind of what you're looking at. 117 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:58,000 You're following major routes back east, you're following infrastructure that's already there, kind of taking the low hanging fruit and then going out in those kind of concentric, or not concentric, in those webs, in those dendrites, roots, right, kind of looking at, okay, starts here and then it kind of fans out. 118 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:12,000 This gets less desirable, but then this starts growing, gets more desirable, then it just kind of process repeats itself, versus a city like Portland or Seattle or Las Vegas or Dallas, you know, those kind of suburbs are just clean enough. 119 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Don't get me wrong, there's X-erbs and there's little pockets of satellites of growth. But if you look at the cities themselves, they kind of follow somewhat of a logical, especially if you look at an aerial map over 25 years kind of follows a logical pattern. 120 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:40,000 It started here and it moves outward. It's far less capital intensive to build close to your infrastructure. It's easier to get it approved. It's easier terms of the roadways and traffic and access to local schools and amenities. 121 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:50,000 So it's a market forces, right? People don't want to live 40 minutes from the nearest grocery store, they'll live 20 so pencils out better. So it's all those factors. 122 00:10:50,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Now, additional headwinds when you are west of the Mississippi is just the oligarchy of landowners, I eat the federal government. 123 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:11,000 It is the federal government. Okay, so 99% of BLM land is west of the Mississippi. It's in the West. 124 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:22,000 So most of the east, that's what I say, most of the east is spoken for. Most of the east is fragmented into a lot of different owners. And that being said, the west is not. 125 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:29,000 And look at the national map, it really is heavy. That's right. You can see it clearly. 126 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:51,000 It's clear. Clearly see where where is that a rule for the next several hundred years or we just a little snapshot little snapshot in time and maybe in 50 years it starts like different. So time will tell but I feel that we've never really had this type of experiment where a government has owned so much of its own land, right? 127 00:11:51,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Because many times governments are formed and existing properties are preserved and that ownership structure is preserved. So they're they're kind of owning the infill parcels or they really just have governance over the private property that's already held. 128 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:15,000 We brought we bought most of the west from the French. We literally bought it. So we bought Alaska from Russia. I mean, it wasn't a regime change. 129 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:29,000 It was literally a real estate purchase. So that being said, you have all these swaths of land. So Nevada as a great microcosm. Now, Nevada is the most egregious example. We are mostly owned by the federal government. 130 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:41,000 So federal government was a greater percentage in Nevada than any other state except Alaska. So Alaska is so much land area. Alaska is massive. But if the lower 48 Nevada is owned wholeheartedly by the federal government. 131 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:52,000 So depending on how you look at it, it's around 85% of Nevada is our federal lands. 80% of that is a Bureau of Land Management. So you might ask, what's the other 5%? 132 00:12:52,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Well, federal lands are not all BLM lands, right? But all BLM lands are federal lands. So the balance of that US Fish and Wildlife, US Forestry Service, National Parks, Department of Defense, our military bases, Department of Energy, which would be like the Nevada test site, things like that. 133 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:22,000 Those are not counted. So when the Nevada test, it's a massive place where I don't want to know about anyone put it. I don't want to put it in the record, but I think it goes on there. But I don't want to get abducted in the middle of the night. 134 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:38,000 But if you look at 85% of the land mass of Nevada and mind you, Nevada is a large state. If you laid Nevada over the East Coast on our long side, I have never done it. But I bet you it reaches the majority of the East Coast. 135 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:52,000 Probably for sure stretches from the Panhandle of Florida up to the Northeast, Northeastern Seaboard for sure. So if you think of it as a massive, massive state, how many Maryland's could fit in there, right? How many Connecticut's could fit in there? 136 00:13:52,000 --> 00:14:09,000 So it's an enormous amount of land being held. It's around 56 million acres. So it's very, it's a very interesting case study in federal land and federal land management. So most of Nevada was built on the back of federal land. 137 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:24,000 We had an initial land auction. We used to just be a train station and then we had an initial land auction. And because we were a train stop, people wanted to build here and started with train repair. And then, okay, well, we need a pharmacy here. We need a pub. We need, and that's just kind of how it started with an initial land auction. 138 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:33,000 And now we still have land auctions to this day. Most of the Bureau of Land Management land is released to the public with published land auctions. 139 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:43,000 So you'll be put on notice that this parcel's coming up and you'll have the ability to bid on it. You have to be vetted. You have to show your financials. You have to show that you can take on the purchase. 140 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:57,000 They do. Yeah. I mean, we definitely could see them more frequently, but I think that they're smart in a way that this is their asset. And if they flood the market with land, it will ultimately supply and demand will take care of itself. 141 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:06,000 And if they're having land auctions every week of millions of dollars worth of land, eventually the capital and the appetite would dry up or you'd have a land grab. 142 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:13,000 And we'd have a oligarchy of other landowners. Black Rock went on all the vacant land in Nevada if we let it, if we turn to lose. 143 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:22,000 So in many ways, I'm glad that we, that we run it that way. And we kind of slowly throttle it in. And in Nevada, we have other resource limiting. 144 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:34,000 We have a water concern and we've drought prolonged drought. And I think that we do need to grow responsibly. But it's, I guess I wish that there was a little asterisk when people said land shortage. 145 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:42,000 It should be buildable, viable land because there's no shortage of land in Nevada for sure, but especially in the West. 146 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Available land. 147 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Available. Is it buildable? Does it pencil out? Is it commercially viable to do anything with it? And I think that that's a little asterisk that I think would be important. 148 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:01,000 Now, that being said, there's still a ton of buildable and we talked about it in their episode. 149 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:16,000 We're about 10,000 fully improved lots. I think it's 9,400 or something last I checked of fully improved lots that are ready to develop that most of those are held by publicly traded companies. So we can't go buy them, but they're there and fully improved. 150 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:27,000 And that's not even counting the parcels that are approved, right? The master plan communities or the new subdivisions that are approved, but none of the infrastructure work has started. 151 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:39,000 So we're definitely not developing enough to meet that demand, but we have other factors to consider. And at a certain point, the market will have to justify. 152 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:47,000 If the sales prices were too low, you just wouldn't see any develop. It does equalize. It takes a while and there's pain in those equalizations on both sides. 153 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:58,000 When you're on your way up, it hurts for people trying to buy and read if you were on your way down. That would be very painful for the existing homeowner. So it's a it's a strike, you know, striking a balance. 154 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:07,000 But and ultimately that's not up to the federal government to preserve the value of your home or to ensure you could argue that maybe they do have a mandate to ensure affordable housing. 155 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:17,000 But they're just, I guess, I lead in with all the infrastructure and viability to say that the land itself is not enough to fix any kind of housing shortages or housing crises. 156 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:25,000 You still have all those other factors to consider. The end of the day has to be commercially viable homes and cities are built by developers, right? 157 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:34,000 The government builds very few of their own housing, right? So they have to pencil out in order to make sense. 158 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:42,000 So is that to say that even if all of that land that's held by BLM is were released, it still wouldn't. 159 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:53,000 I think it would. I look at it this way to use a little analogy. If you owned a bakery and you were consistently out of ingredients to make. 160 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,000 Let's say chocolate chip muffins. 161 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Okay. 162 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:05,000 And someone said, I'm going to solve all your problems. I'm going to back up a truck full of flour and you're going to be able to make all the muffins you can make. 163 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:11,000 Yeah, but what about everything else that goes into it? And do I even have enough oven space? Do I even have enough manpower? 164 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,000 I mean, we would then find some other rate limiting step. 165 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:26,000 I will say right now, I feel in my gut and will never know because we won't be able to run this experiment that the BLM not releasing enough land is probably our rate limiting step. 166 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:33,000 At this moment, but ants. The answer to that is not opening it up. Maybe if we open it up 10% or 20% maybe that would help. 167 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:42,000 But ultimately we're going development is incredibly capital intensive, time intensive prospect. 168 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:49,000 So just the raw land is 100 pounds of flour without any bakers to make muffins or oven space. 169 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,000 So I think I don't forget those. 170 00:18:52,000 --> 00:19:01,000 It's not my sweet. So yeah, that's kind of how I think of it is. It's probably probably the biggest culprit right now. 171 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:07,000 But it'd be easy to fix that and then find another whack-a-mole problem that pops up and says, oh, wait a minute. 172 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:14,000 We don't have the manpower to build and develop this. Oh, we don't have the home builder appetite to have this kind of exposure in our market. 173 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,000 So I feel that we'd find some other great limiting step. 174 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:25,000 I like that analogy, the whack-a-mole. You can literally imagine this is going to pop up. We serve this need. 175 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,000 We fixed it. Now we've got another one that popped up. 176 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:34,000 Send that land. And the housing crisis as a whole is that, you know, popping up. 177 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:40,000 It is. And it's kind of any industry really, if you think about it. And we just happen to know this industry very well. 178 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,000 And when I contemplate these things, it's interesting to think of the solutions to it. 179 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:56,000 And there'd be a time when we would run out of buyer ability because it's not just that there's a housing shortage, but there's an affordability crisis. 180 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000 So if we just build more on affordable homes, we'll take. 181 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,000 They have to work in conjunction in order to serve the problem. 182 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000 You have to come to throttle them in and drip them in. Exactly. 183 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,000 Right. Exactly. You have to drip them into the market. 184 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:13,000 And it's the adage of if you build it, they will come. Probably works. But you'll find the limit. 185 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:20,000 And when we talk about pain, yeah, you talk about pain that would be pain on the home builder side to say, uh-oh, we're stuck with a lot of inventory. 186 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:26,000 And you and I both lived through a period of oversupply and housing. And it was not that long ago. It was about 20 years ago. 187 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,000 So and you could see it reflected in rents versus home prices. 188 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,000 Why are rents so cheap at home prices as an asset are so expensive. 189 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,000 Sign of a serious housing problem on the other side of the equation. 190 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,000 So it's a balancing act and that doesn't help anyone either. 191 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,000 It's a, it feels good in the short term. At least that's $150,000. 192 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,000 No, there's not going to be many more left because no one's going to be able to recreate that product. 193 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000 So it has to balance itself out. 194 00:20:52,000 --> 00:21:05,000 And there are certain things that yes, right now the BLM has their finger on the scale because unintentionally, most likely, they don't realize they're not releasing enough or they don't have the authority to insert some multi-prong. 195 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,000 It's not one person that says, yeah, go ahead and release those 50 acres. It's a lot. It's a big process. 196 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Because it's actually all our land as U.S. citizens. 197 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,000 That's not a decision that goes into it. Like you said, you wouldn't want to release too much of it. 198 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,000 So it's that sort of, you know, give and take to, to buy and demand. 199 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000 That's right. 200 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,000 That's what really needs to happen. 201 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:33,000 And they look at many factors. I, again, like we talked about in our regulations episode, I believe that these people have good intentions and they want to release things that are strategic. 202 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,000 Okay, this land makes no sense for the BLM to own. It's hard to manage. 203 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,000 It's getting, it's in the middle of the city. It's getting trash dumped on it. 204 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:47,000 It's someone could fall and go in there and fall. There could be a can't many people in there. We want strategically want to sell it. 205 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:53,000 And then there's a, okay, this is for the greater good of this community. Let's sell this. It's can be used for a school or whatever. 206 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:58,000 You know, there's a lot of things that go into it. And I do believe they have the best intentions. 207 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:08,000 So we're sitting on a lot of dusty gold under our feet, but it's just a matter of kind of letting it play out time and strategy. 208 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,000 Yeah. 209 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,000 It's released. 210 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,000 Right. 211 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,000 More to see more to know. 212 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,000 Interesting. 213 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000 Interesting topic. Appreciate your insights. 214 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000 Thank you. 215 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000 It's good. Good chatting about it. 216 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:26,000 Thank you for joining us. Join us again next time on the next episode of trust the process podcast. See you then. 217 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,000 Bye. 218 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Thanks for tuning into the press the process podcast. Make sure to follow us on Spotify to stay in the loop with the latest insights project updates and everything in between. 219 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:57,000 See you next time.