Hey everyone, my name is Austin and welcome back
to another episode of the Infiltrate Faith Podcast.
If this is your first time tuning in, I'm so
glad you're here and if you've been here before,
welcome back. I'm so excited for today's episode
because we're diving into the story behind a
real raw and redemptive invitation into deeper
intimacy with Christ and I'm honored to be sitting
down with the co -author behind the book, Revelationship.
So Cathy, why don't you introduce yourself and
tell us why you're here? Well, you know, Revelationship
really came from years of quietly gathering stories,
mostly stories of suffering. For over a decade,
I've had the honor of walking with women through
some of the hardest parts of life. And those
conversations always led back to some kind of
pivotal question, particularly somewhere around,
where is God in all of this? That's usually the
crux of everything we go through. And at the
same time, I was deep in the study for another
book called The God Who, which comes out hopefully
in about six months or so. And that project had
me combing through the Old Testament for over
10 years. Actually, I've been in it and asking
the same question. How is God revealing himself
in this story or in that story or in this encounter
in the Old Testament? Not just what he does,
but also who he shows himself to be or even declares
himself to be. A lot of times he'll say, I'm
the God who and then there's you know something
that he says and so that's the title of the book.
The more I searched for God revealing himself
the more the scripture became alive and not some
historical, dusty, bloodthirsty sort of record.
And it became deeply personal. It felt deeply
personal. And I shared this with my dad, Dr.
Randy Culver, who also helped me write the book,
Revelationship. We wrote it together. He's a
theologian. He's a pastor. And he immediately
said, we've got to share this with the interns
at our church. And to summarize what I shared,
he wrote on the whiteboard, revelation. And then
he had a brain fart because he was saying revelation
for the purpose of relationship and sort of wrote
the word together. And then we stood back and
said, that's it. That's the heart of God. in
the Bible and in our stories that we're trying
to express. So, revelationship is a part of this,
I guess, result of this collision, if you will.
Years of collecting stories, a deep dive into
Scripture, and a desire to train people to see
where God is already moving in their stories,
drawing us into this deep, intimate relationship,
especially in those messy, painful parts of life.
So it was basically like a happy accident kind
of thing that this title even happened. That's
really cool. It was. It really was. Wow. That's
awesome. So you describe revelationship as an
invitation. What are you inviting readers to
listen into through this book? You know, Revelationship
is an invitation into presence. I think that's
even something that this society and culture
is really missing. Not just God's presence in
some abstract theological sense, but in a very
real, tangible awareness of Him in the everyday
moments of our lives. And in the book, we're
inviting readers to slow down and pay attention
and to look again at their stories, not just
the mountaintops, because I think a lot of people
think that God is just in the mountaintops. He's
not. He's in the valleys, too. And then ask themselves,
where is God revealing Himself here? I think
also many people are taught to find God in the
Bible or in the four walls of church or maybe
in community. And of course, those are vital,
but we haven't always been trained to look for
Him in the shadows, in the suffering, in the
night watches, in the wrestling, or even in creation.
We tend to think of those places as evidence
of God's absence. Like because I'm going through
suffering, he must be absent. But scripture says,
and if we pay attention, our own stories tell
a different story that he is very present. So
this book is really an invitation to see that
God is revealing himself everywhere and that
he meets us not just in our strength, but in
our questions, in our ache, in our wonder and
even our silence. So we live in such a noisy
world, external and internal. How do you personally
quiet spiritual noise to create space for God
to speak? I think we live in a noisy, beeping,
dinging notifications almost to the point where
it drives you crazy both externally, but I also
think internally because we haven't really been
taught to listen to the voice of God and all
these things inside and out dull us and drown
out the voice of God. I heard a missionary recently
tell a story about how all her orphans in some
country in Africa can wake up and they always
have dreams about God and God is always speaking
to them in their prayers. And I thought to myself,
why is that not the norm here? And I think to
myself, it has to be because we've drowned him
out. And I think for me, the only way to really
quiet that noise down is to practice something
called silence. It's a discipline I think we've
lost. And I really do mean practice it because
it's a discipline and it does not come naturally.
And I've had to train myself to turn off the
sounds that I'm constantly assaulted with music,
podcasts, social media, even good spiritual content,
you know, and I love podcasts. I love to listen
to them while I'm doing the dishes or walking
or whatever. But at the same time, there is a
time and a place for all that. And I've learned
that if I want to hear God, I have to make room
for him to speak and silence. I think this is
where we go wrong because we're afraid of silence.
Even in a relationship, you have to be really
comfortable with someone to just sit in silence,
right? But silence isn't just an absence of noise.
It's actually a posture. It's a way of turning
toward God. with a sense of expectancy. And there's
a book by Brother Lawrence called, Practicing
the Presence of God. And I really got a lot out
of that. You know, he's a monk and he was explaining
how while he was peeling potatoes, he felt the
presence of God. And as a mom, I have to do that
or I will never experience the presence of God
because there are 10 ,000 things to do. So there
are so many things and so Instead of just sort
of filling the air with noise, I try to simply
notice God. I like to acknowledge His nearness.
I invite Him to speak. And then I've trained
my inner ear to listen to Him. And the more I
do that, the more I recognize His voice, not
just in silence, but in the crash and the sounds
of everyday life. He is always speaking. I think
that's also something we forget is that All throughout
the Bible, he was talking all the time. So, you
know, for him to suddenly just stop talking makes
no sense. He's a God who does not change. So
he is still speaking and we're just too loud
to hear him. So what do you think are some of
the biggest obstacles that can keep us from hearing
God? And how can we begin to shift that? I definitely
think doubt that he's speaking to you is a big
obstacle. You have to shift that. You have to
know that you know that the same God who spoke
to Moses and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and
Hagar and... All the others will speak to you
because he cares about you. That's one. Doubt.
Number two, training, practice, discipline, all
the words that we have to use, you know, just
like working out. We have to train ourselves
to do that. And then third is you really have
to set aside some time. As a mom, there are only
bits and pieces during the day where I can do
that. but in other seasons I've done hours worth
of time and usually as soon as my kids leave
the house, my husband takes them to school, I
lock the door behind him and I take the next
two hours to worship and pray before I hit the
day and start with work. Do you believe some
of the deepest revelations about God come not
in strength but in struggle? The deepest revelations
about God come definitely not in strength but
in struggle because struggle or suffering or
pain, whatever you want to call it, reveals what
is true. When everything else is stripped away,
our strength, our plans, our sense of control,
what's left is what we really believe. And often
we find that what we thought we believed about
God or about ourselves or about the situation
doesn't hold up in that suffering or in that
darkness. And that's where real revelation begins
when all the facade or fraud is stripped away.
And I learned this firsthand after the trail.
and the shattering of my very first marriage.
I was young, and he decided he wanted to go and
pursue other women and divorce me. And that left
me barely functioning, working at church. I did
my daily devotions. I was saying the right things.
But I felt very numb and unseen and unusable.
The promises that I thought I was trusting in...
now felt like taunts to me. You know, things
like having a family, raising children, the white
picket fence and the chickens. You know, I didn't
have any of that suddenly. And my pastor, and
this is what we should do when somebody's in
suffering. This is a perfect example, okay? My
pastor wouldn't let me quit. She was one of the
pastors. She had me and the other women in our
discipleship group. one day pray over the interns.
She kept bringing me to the ministry table. Come
and pour yourself out. Come and participate.
And I did not want to. I felt like I had nothing
to give. I mean, I was out. Like, I was gone.
And in obedience, I stood behind one of the gentlemen
who needed to be prayed for. And I asked the
Lord, what should I pray? And I felt like he
said to... to pray James 1 over him which I had
memorized and so I prayed James 1 over this guy
and so I'm praying just quoting James 1 over
him and he crumpled to the floor overwhelmed
by God's presence and I was like uh what just
happened and then he said that was the heaviest
he'd ever felt God's presence and then later
that night I prayed with a woman it's just a
regular old prayer I don't feel like it was anything
special. And I definitely didn't have anything
special in me. I'll just tell you that right
now. And then she was completely overwhelmed
with the power of the Holy Spirit, just crying
and weeping and being healed from internal wounds
and things like that. And I asked the Lord, I
was like, why are you doing this right now when
I feel utterly and completely empty and useless?
And he said, Because you're empty, I have room
to flow. My power is made perfect in your weakness.
That's what Paul tells us. And so that was a
real turning point for me. And I realized God's
power isn't blocked by our brokenness. He still
moves. He's still calling. He's still commissioning.
And he's still choosing us even in the ruins.
And it really let him shine through. And it probably
wouldn't have if I had been just in my own strength.
I'm sure of it. You have a real heart for moms
and women. What encouragement would you give
to the women who feels like she just doesn't
have time for intimacy with God in the chaos
of everyday life? So the advice I would first
start off with is be faithful to yourself first.
And no, I don't mean this version of self -care
that's sort of marketed to moms like bubble baths
and lattes and Nails and things like that Those
are not solutions to the soul care. Okay that
you need for the soul deep exhaustion that women
get, okay? I mean real soul care, which is tending
to that sacred part of you that needs to breathe
in God. And it's really that same principle that
the flight attendants tell you, they tell you
put the mask on yourself before you put the mask
on your children. Why? Because they can't put
it on you. So you got to take care of and be
faithful to yourself. first, in order to be able
to be faithful and take care of them. And then
the second thing I would tell them is to let
go of this lie called balance. So balance without
getting into it is a Hindu concept. It is not
a biblical concept. You will not find it in the
Bible. It's not there. Prioritizing isn't even
in the Bible. But this balance concept has been
fed to women where they think they have to balance.
all the things that they're supposed to be and
all the things that they're supposed to do. They're
not. It will kill you. And so they need to let
go of this lie. It's a cultural obsession. It's
basically a bondage. And you lay awake at night
thinking of all the things that you should have
done and didn't do. So it's... Absolutely not
true. You can't do all those things. You're not
called to do all those things. You're called
to live present in the season. wholeness, you're
called to safety, you're called to all these
kinds of things and bouncing and juggling things,
that's not for you. It's just not for Christian
women. What we need to do is be faithful to whatever
season God is calling us and be present in it.
That will release a lot of women from a lot of
bondage and a lot of guilt and a lot of shame.
How can daughters and mothers cultivate a shared
or generational faith that's deeply personal?
So we want to pass on this deeply personal understanding
of who God is and who God has been in our lives.
And you can't pass down something that you haven't
experienced or encountered. But only revelation,
seeing who God is, is rooting us. It's the only
thing that will root us in faith. so deep that
we can withstand the world. And that's why I
believe one of the most powerful things we can
do as moms is to learn to name and narrate the
ways God has revealed himself in our own stories.
Not just what he's done, but who he's shown himself
to be. His name, his character, his reputation.
What he does all those things come together because
they're not you can't pull those apart And when
we begin to see that and to share that we will
begin to understand who we are in him So our
identity as women is rooted and then but as women
passing it down to our daughters is Rooted in
who God is for example if he is Elroy the God
who sees me I am seen. That is my identity. No
matter what anybody else says, and not only am
I seen, but the injustices done to me are seen.
That'll free you up. So knowing who he is tells
me who I am so I can tell my daughter who she
is. Can you share a time when you were wrestling
with God and he revealed himself in a new way?
I I feel like I've done a lot of wrestling with
God. I must not be one of those who's really
kind of afraid to wrestle with God. Let me think.
If I remember correctly, Jacob wasn't afraid
to wrestle with God either. One of the ways was
after the divorce. Divorce is a really big thing
for women because you have a lot of identity
wrapped up in divorce. And I, again, felt disqualified,
really. And I had even kind of dated a few other
men afterwards, and they were like, well, I can't
really date you or marry you because you're divorced,
which I was just like, really? OK, you couldn't
figure that out before you dated me? But it was
tough. And when I was dealing with all this,
I went away to some youth camp. I think I was
counselor somewhere, and I was just helping out.
And I said to the Lord, I'm ready to hear from
you." Because up to that point, I had really
blocked him. I was like, do not talk to me right
now. Do not require anything of me. Do not talk
to me. And he, as soon as I said, I'm ready to
hear from you, he spoke. That... person who was
scheduled to speak a sermon he stood me up and
he spoke to my heart and he said things that
nobody else could possibly have known except
God and basically recommissioned me. So the wrestling
came maybe even in that time before and then
it was like okay now I'm ready to hear from you
and then boom he was there. There's other times
as well but that that's probably one of those
times that stands out in your mind because it
answers Am I disqualified? Am I going to ever
be used of God or married again or doing something
different? Or the dreams I had as a child, are
they dead? Are they gone? These are legitimate
things that we wrestle with. So many of us have
been conditioned to do for God instead of be
with Him. What helped you let go of spiritual
striving and instead learn to receive God's pursuit
of you? When I grew up in the church, there was
a lot of doing in the church. And that was part
of the church culture. There was even a saying,
don't call in when you're sick, crawl in. Okay.
That was the culture of quote unquote excellence
that I grew up in. So there was a lot of do,
do, doing in that. Let me tell you. And I was
there five, six days a week, at least working,
loving it and loving God and loving people. But
you know, you can get burnt out that way. And
I was. 13 and I began to see a level of hypocrisy
and hurt and people hurting people as they do
and even some church abuse and I told my parents
that I was not sure this Christian thing was
for me and my dad who is a pastor did not panic
he took me to the library and he helped me check
out books on every religion, a main religion
and quite a few of the smaller ones. And I studied
that to basically deconstruct my faith. That
wasn't a thing. We didn't talk like that. Nobody
had that word. But I deconstructed those man
-made traditions and reconstructed a faith based
on a couple of things. One, I knew that Jesus
Christ was real and that he wanted a relationship
with me personally. That was a key. The second
part was whatever he said was going to go for
me, whether it was in the Old Testament or the
New Testament, whatever God said was going to
go for me, not whatever man said. So when a fad
like wearing skirts or doilies on the back of
the head or whatever blew through the church,
I didn't fall for it because It wasn't in the
Bible. I'm not going to fall for that. And so
I think deconstructing at an early age made me
lean on, what does God say? Let's have that.
I don't really care what man says. And so the
doo -doo doing and the people pleasing really
wasn't a part of my vocabulary from about 14
onward. What's one practice or mindset shift
that helped you stop performing and start abiding?
Definitely the silence as a discipline is very
important to me. I spend at least 15 -20 minutes
in just deep contemplative silence. Not meditation
like Hindus or Buddhists or whatever, just deep
meditative silence where my mind is centered
on Christ. So that's centering that the old...
church fathers practiced. That has been a very
important part of abiding. And then scripture
is very important to me. I like to eat it. I
like to feast on it. I don't like to blow through
it. There's this thing in the American church
where it's all about, I finished 12 books in
12 days. And I'm like, great, do you remember
anything you read? Did you apply it? Did you
know anything? You just consumed it. It's sort
of this materialistic consuming of the Bible.
So I will deeply contemplate one scripture. Bonhoeffer
used to say that a mature Christian could focus
a month on one scripture passage. I'm not there
yet, but I do like to spend several, several
weeks going over a few scriptures in like one
single area so that I extract from it every bit
that I can. And there's this thing that happens
with this living Word of God where you think
you've gotten everything out of it. And then
you come to it or you've encountered someone
or someone has said something and it just makes
it come alive again and in a new way that you
didn't even see. And that's the way the living
God is. And when he breathes his living word,
it's amazing how it continues to be deep for
you. So those two things, I think, together really
help me abide. So you've been through intense
suffering, divorce, miscarriages, and even breaking
your neck twice. How did God meet you in those
moments? And how did they shape your relationship
with Him now? It revealed to me how near He really
was. So when... My first husband divorced me
when I lost my first child in miscarriage when
the man I loved and later married broke up with
me for the third time and Then dated the woman
he thought was the woman of his dreams When I
broke my neck in a car accident and broke it
skiing too, by the way When I lost my second
child and when I waited ten years for the birth
of my son So I say that list to let people know
I haven't just been through some cookie -cutter
life. It's been a life that has had some hardships.
But throughout all of it, it was the God who
kept me. anchored in who he was. So I mentioned
Delroy, the God who sees me. That's what keeps
you from losing faith. But there's also Jehovah
-Nesi, which means the Lord our banner that declares
truth over me, not what somebody else gossips
or slanders or says. Even my ex -husband and
the things that maybe he said that kind of got
there, weren't their way into my heart and wounded
me. Those things can't How can we begin to see
our pain? Not as a disqualifier, but as a sacred
ground where God might actually want to meet
us. I think we have to know that pain doesn't
disqualify us, and I've used that word before
just in this podcast, because I think sometimes
we think pain and suffering means that the dreams
we had are no longer going to be true. They may
look different, but they are still true. God
put them in our hearts, they will come to pass.
The pain... not only does it disqualify us, but
it draws us into the wilderness. And, you know,
people talk about a wilderness season. Sometimes
you'll hear them talk. People get very bitter
sometimes during a wilderness season. But a wilderness
is where God strips away all that doesn't matter
in order to bring us to himself. So Israelites
got stripped of all the Egypt. And he brought
them to himself. He says, by my own wings, I
carried you to me and they meet at the mountain
of God. So wilderness seasons are sacred. They
are sacred because, again, they silence the noise.
They spotlight what's precious and eternal. And
in those sacred places, we don't need complicated
theological answers. We need His presence. And
when His presence descended on the mountain of
God, they knew it. There was no questioning.
They were very much afraid of it. But the map
for the wilderness of God is very simple, too.
The map is look for the mountain of God. Stay
there. experience His presence, receive from
Him what He wants you to have from Him, and dwell
with Him. That is the whole purpose of everything.
From the beginning of the Bible to the end of
the Bible, God wants to dwell with us. And you
know, in Revelation, at the very end, it says,
and finally, the dwelling of God is with man.
That's the whole purpose of it all. He wants
to dwell with us. the reset course and other
tools for spiritual transformation. Can you walk
us through some practical ways that help restore
joy and intimacy with God? Yeah, absolutely.
So restoring joy and intimacy with God comes
by creating intentional spaces to meet with him.
So that's why we've developed some of these resources
that don't just give information, they create
rhythms for transformation. So the reset course
is a seven -week online experience. It's a small
group of people that my dad and I walk through
the Revelation ship devotional with them. And
it's really made to help people slow down, re
-center and actually encounter God through scripture,
worship, reflection, discussion. And this summer
we're going to have a 14 week, which kind of
extends it a little bit and that will offer a
little bit more depth. And what we're finding
though is even when people are committing to
a seven week course, they have to miss a few
because life is crazy and that's what's happening.
So we also have the rev -ev relationship devotional,
which is what we go through in the recent course.
It's a deeply immersive tool, so it's not like
just a typical black and white devotional. Every
page is designed to draw you in. It has beautiful
pictures that you can just sit there and look
at and pray. You have QR codes that you can scan
and listen to worship. Mindfulness prompts. There's
scripture reflections to guide your conversation.
Again, made to make you pause and notice his
presence and reawaken yourself to his pursuit
of you. And then we have The known devotional,
which is coming out on Amazon, but it's free
right now on my website so people can go and
download it on my website. But it's the known
devotional. It explores 32 names of God and it
pairs each one with an identity truth about who
we are in light of who he is. So it's this rhythm
of. anchoring yourself every day in God's character,
then shaping your self -understanding, and then
we're going to turn it into a children's devotional
because these are the building blocks of our
children's identity as well, and it's very important
for that next generation to internalize them.
So all this together is really about creating
space, and they can get them at Revelation Net
is where they can go to get all of it. So for
the listener who feels spiritually dry or disconnected,
what's a simple first step to begin connecting
with Jesus today? I think you have to start with
honesty. If you're spiritually dry, don't try
to fake it and don't try to fake your way out
of it. Jesus doesn't need your performance. He
wants your presence. So you just have to say
something like, Jesus, I miss you and I don't
feel you right now and I want to. And that honest
prayer is all you need to open the door. And
then I'd say, take a small step of returning
to Him. So turn off social media for maybe a
week or something like that. Play a worship song
while you sit there with your Word open. Maybe
the Word of God isn't saying anything to you
right now. Just leave it open. Play a worship
song. Then go on a walk. Say his name out loud.
Just do something that signals that your head
and your heart are turning to him again. And
he promises, if we draw near, he will draw near
to us. That's what he says. He's not wanting
us to climb some kind of ladder or some holy
hill. He's walking toward us. We just have to
kind of turn towards him. If you could sit down
with every wahoman. listening to this podcast
right now. What would you want her to know about
God's heart for her right now in the middle of
her unfinished story? I would want her to know
that God is not distant from your story. He's
in it. All of it. So many of the women I disciple,
they carry a lot of weight on their chest and
they're anxious about what's ahead. They're haunted
by what's behind. And they're paralyzed by pressure
to get it right in this moment. And there are
some layers of anxiety that absolutely need support.
Medicine, help, counseling, all the above. But
what I'm talking about is the form of anxiety
that comes from fear. that we carry from really
kind of forgetting who God is in our lives. And
so the Bible reveals that God is omnipresent,
meaning always present. Not just beside you in
the now, which I think we kind of get that a
little bit more. You know, He's here with me
now. He'll never leave my side. He'll never leave
me nor forsake me. But what we don't know or
don't really think about is He's also fully present
still in the past. He never left the present
and he's always present in the future. I'm there
with him. I just haven't experienced it yet,
but he's there. And so that kind of understanding
of presence can calm anxiety. It can calm your
fears about your past because he's back there
redeeming it and your current and your future.
And it really rewrites our sense of identity
and safety, finding safety in God. And the thing
I would tell women is you are not behind. You
did not miss an appointment. You are not forgotten.
You are not alone. And even in the middle of
your unfinished story that you feel like is taking
twists and turns, God is at work and he's redeeming
it. He's healing it and leading you forward in
love. toward the victory where you guys are dwelling
together in the future, and you're victorious.
And I love that picture, even though I haven't
encountered it fully yet. Thank you so much for
joining us today on the Unfiltered Faith Podcast.
Whether you're listening while you're driving,
multitasking through the chaos, or finally catching
a quiet moment for yourself, know this. God is
near. He's not asking you to have it all figured
out. He's simply inviting you to be with Him
right where you are. A huge thank you to Cathy
for sharing her heart, her story, and her deep
well -wisdom with us today. Revelationship isn't
just a book, it's a lifeline, an invitation to
meet Jesus in the real, raw, and ordinary places
of our lives. To you the listener, I pray today's
conversation reminded you that your pain isn't
a disqualifier, it's often the very place where
God wants to meet you. You don't have to perform
or prove anything to be loved, you already are.
So take a breath, take a step, and know this,
God's not done with your story, not even close.
Until next time, keep seeking those fresh perspectives
and keep having those unfiltered conversations
with others to better understand the world around
us.