WEBVTT 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:19.579 Hey everyone, my name is Austin and welcome back 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:21.800 to another episode of the Infiltrate Faith Podcast. 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.079 If this is your first time tuning in, I'm so 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.100 glad you're here and if you've been here before, 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:33.539 welcome back. I'm so excited for today's episode 00:00:33.539 --> 00:00:36.520 because we're diving into the story behind a 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:40.100 real raw and redemptive invitation into deeper 00:00:40.100 --> 00:00:42.880 intimacy with Christ and I'm honored to be sitting 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.840 down with the co -author behind the book, Revelationship. 00:00:47.140 --> 00:00:49.579 So Cathy, why don't you introduce yourself and 00:00:49.579 --> 00:00:53.820 tell us why you're here? Well, you know, Revelationship 00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:59.619 really came from years of quietly gathering stories, 00:00:59.859 --> 00:01:03.780 mostly stories of suffering. For over a decade, 00:01:03.859 --> 00:01:08.239 I've had the honor of walking with women through 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:12.989 some of the hardest parts of life. And those 00:01:12.989 --> 00:01:16.750 conversations always led back to some kind of 00:01:16.750 --> 00:01:19.890 pivotal question, particularly somewhere around, 00:01:20.390 --> 00:01:24.170 where is God in all of this? That's usually the 00:01:24.170 --> 00:01:27.569 crux of everything we go through. And at the 00:01:27.569 --> 00:01:31.430 same time, I was deep in the study for another 00:01:31.430 --> 00:01:34.799 book called The God Who, which comes out hopefully 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:38.040 in about six months or so. And that project had 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:41.959 me combing through the Old Testament for over 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:44.319 10 years. Actually, I've been in it and asking 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.760 the same question. How is God revealing himself 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.739 in this story or in that story or in this encounter 00:01:51.739 --> 00:01:54.760 in the Old Testament? Not just what he does, 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.040 but also who he shows himself to be or even declares 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.739 himself to be. A lot of times he'll say, I'm 00:02:01.739 --> 00:02:03.700 the God who and then there's you know something 00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:05.680 that he says and so that's the title of the book. 00:02:06.019 --> 00:02:10.460 The more I searched for God revealing himself 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:15.300 the more the scripture became alive and not some 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:20.659 historical, dusty, bloodthirsty sort of record. 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.680 And it became deeply personal. It felt deeply 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:29.319 personal. And I shared this with my dad, Dr. 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:31.419 Randy Culver, who also helped me write the book, 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:33.699 Revelationship. We wrote it together. He's a 00:02:33.699 --> 00:02:36.520 theologian. He's a pastor. And he immediately 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.379 said, we've got to share this with the interns 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:43.430 at our church. And to summarize what I shared, 00:02:43.750 --> 00:02:47.629 he wrote on the whiteboard, revelation. And then 00:02:47.629 --> 00:02:50.569 he had a brain fart because he was saying revelation 00:02:50.569 --> 00:02:53.909 for the purpose of relationship and sort of wrote 00:02:53.909 --> 00:02:55.949 the word together. And then we stood back and 00:02:55.949 --> 00:03:00.360 said, that's it. That's the heart of God. in 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.060 the Bible and in our stories that we're trying 00:03:04.060 --> 00:03:07.759 to express. So, revelationship is a part of this, 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:11.039 I guess, result of this collision, if you will. 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:13.800 Years of collecting stories, a deep dive into 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:19.800 Scripture, and a desire to train people to see 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.219 where God is already moving in their stories, 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.620 drawing us into this deep, intimate relationship, 00:03:27.699 --> 00:03:33.340 especially in those messy, painful parts of life. 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:37.719 So it was basically like a happy accident kind 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:41.879 of thing that this title even happened. That's 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:45.340 really cool. It was. It really was. Wow. That's 00:03:45.340 --> 00:03:48.879 awesome. So you describe revelationship as an 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.560 invitation. What are you inviting readers to 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:58.120 listen into through this book? You know, Revelationship 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:02.400 is an invitation into presence. I think that's 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:05.419 even something that this society and culture 00:04:05.419 --> 00:04:09.620 is really missing. Not just God's presence in 00:04:09.620 --> 00:04:14.379 some abstract theological sense, but in a very 00:04:14.379 --> 00:04:20.490 real, tangible awareness of Him in the everyday 00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:24.329 moments of our lives. And in the book, we're 00:04:24.329 --> 00:04:29.329 inviting readers to slow down and pay attention 00:04:29.329 --> 00:04:33.189 and to look again at their stories, not just 00:04:33.189 --> 00:04:35.209 the mountaintops, because I think a lot of people 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:37.649 think that God is just in the mountaintops. He's 00:04:37.649 --> 00:04:41.709 not. He's in the valleys, too. And then ask themselves, 00:04:41.889 --> 00:04:46.660 where is God revealing Himself here? I think 00:04:46.660 --> 00:04:50.300 also many people are taught to find God in the 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:52.860 Bible or in the four walls of church or maybe 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:55.399 in community. And of course, those are vital, 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:57.939 but we haven't always been trained to look for 00:04:57.939 --> 00:05:02.019 Him in the shadows, in the suffering, in the 00:05:02.019 --> 00:05:06.220 night watches, in the wrestling, or even in creation. 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:11.079 We tend to think of those places as evidence 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:15.269 of God's absence. Like because I'm going through 00:05:15.269 --> 00:05:20.290 suffering, he must be absent. But scripture says, 00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:23.850 and if we pay attention, our own stories tell 00:05:23.850 --> 00:05:27.610 a different story that he is very present. So 00:05:27.610 --> 00:05:31.129 this book is really an invitation to see that 00:05:31.129 --> 00:05:34.370 God is revealing himself everywhere and that 00:05:34.370 --> 00:05:36.889 he meets us not just in our strength, but in 00:05:36.889 --> 00:05:41.029 our questions, in our ache, in our wonder and 00:05:41.029 --> 00:05:45.040 even our silence. So we live in such a noisy 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.199 world, external and internal. How do you personally 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:51.680 quiet spiritual noise to create space for God 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:58.620 to speak? I think we live in a noisy, beeping, 00:05:58.939 --> 00:06:02.680 dinging notifications almost to the point where 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:06.300 it drives you crazy both externally, but I also 00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:10.600 think internally because we haven't really been 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.720 taught to listen to the voice of God and all 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:20.240 these things inside and out dull us and drown 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:23.879 out the voice of God. I heard a missionary recently 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:27.860 tell a story about how all her orphans in some 00:06:27.860 --> 00:06:31.959 country in Africa can wake up and they always 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:35.420 have dreams about God and God is always speaking 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:37.360 to them in their prayers. And I thought to myself, 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.519 why is that not the norm here? And I think to 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.019 myself, it has to be because we've drowned him 00:06:44.019 --> 00:06:48.160 out. And I think for me, the only way to really 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.620 quiet that noise down is to practice something 00:06:51.620 --> 00:06:54.240 called silence. It's a discipline I think we've 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:57.220 lost. And I really do mean practice it because 00:06:57.220 --> 00:07:00.040 it's a discipline and it does not come naturally. 00:07:00.379 --> 00:07:04.120 And I've had to train myself to turn off the 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:08.699 sounds that I'm constantly assaulted with music, 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:11.959 podcasts, social media, even good spiritual content, 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:14.579 you know, and I love podcasts. I love to listen 00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:17.319 to them while I'm doing the dishes or walking 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:20.920 or whatever. But at the same time, there is a 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.480 time and a place for all that. And I've learned 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.199 that if I want to hear God, I have to make room 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.769 for him to speak and silence. I think this is 00:07:30.769 --> 00:07:33.189 where we go wrong because we're afraid of silence. 00:07:33.550 --> 00:07:35.709 Even in a relationship, you have to be really 00:07:35.709 --> 00:07:38.209 comfortable with someone to just sit in silence, 00:07:38.209 --> 00:07:42.829 right? But silence isn't just an absence of noise. 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:47.529 It's actually a posture. It's a way of turning 00:07:47.529 --> 00:07:52.579 toward God. with a sense of expectancy. And there's 00:07:52.579 --> 00:07:55.199 a book by Brother Lawrence called, Practicing 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:59.259 the Presence of God. And I really got a lot out 00:07:59.259 --> 00:08:01.500 of that. You know, he's a monk and he was explaining 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:04.660 how while he was peeling potatoes, he felt the 00:08:04.660 --> 00:08:07.899 presence of God. And as a mom, I have to do that 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:10.300 or I will never experience the presence of God 00:08:10.300 --> 00:08:13.180 because there are 10 ,000 things to do. So there 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:18.529 are so many things and so Instead of just sort 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:22.170 of filling the air with noise, I try to simply 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:25.730 notice God. I like to acknowledge His nearness. 00:08:26.449 --> 00:08:29.529 I invite Him to speak. And then I've trained 00:08:29.529 --> 00:08:33.429 my inner ear to listen to Him. And the more I 00:08:33.429 --> 00:08:36.009 do that, the more I recognize His voice, not 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:39.690 just in silence, but in the crash and the sounds 00:08:39.690 --> 00:08:42.750 of everyday life. He is always speaking. I think 00:08:42.750 --> 00:08:45.919 that's also something we forget is that All throughout 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:49.639 the Bible, he was talking all the time. So, you 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.299 know, for him to suddenly just stop talking makes 00:08:52.299 --> 00:08:54.200 no sense. He's a God who does not change. So 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.820 he is still speaking and we're just too loud 00:08:57.820 --> 00:09:00.580 to hear him. So what do you think are some of 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:02.720 the biggest obstacles that can keep us from hearing 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.159 God? And how can we begin to shift that? I definitely 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.100 think doubt that he's speaking to you is a big 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:11.500 obstacle. You have to shift that. You have to 00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:14.399 know that you know that the same God who spoke 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.399 to Moses and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:21.169 Hagar and... All the others will speak to you 00:09:21.169 --> 00:09:23.990 because he cares about you. That's one. Doubt. 00:09:24.149 --> 00:09:27.210 Number two, training, practice, discipline, all 00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:29.049 the words that we have to use, you know, just 00:09:29.049 --> 00:09:31.509 like working out. We have to train ourselves 00:09:31.509 --> 00:09:34.389 to do that. And then third is you really have 00:09:34.389 --> 00:09:37.909 to set aside some time. As a mom, there are only 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:40.190 bits and pieces during the day where I can do 00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:43.590 that. but in other seasons I've done hours worth 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:46.149 of time and usually as soon as my kids leave 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:48.690 the house, my husband takes them to school, I 00:09:48.690 --> 00:09:52.169 lock the door behind him and I take the next 00:09:52.169 --> 00:09:54.789 two hours to worship and pray before I hit the 00:09:54.789 --> 00:09:57.629 day and start with work. Do you believe some 00:09:57.629 --> 00:10:00.330 of the deepest revelations about God come not 00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:03.960 in strength but in struggle? The deepest revelations 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.500 about God come definitely not in strength but 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:12.460 in struggle because struggle or suffering or 00:10:12.460 --> 00:10:15.279 pain, whatever you want to call it, reveals what 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:18.820 is true. When everything else is stripped away, 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.559 our strength, our plans, our sense of control, 00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:27.919 what's left is what we really believe. And often 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:31.759 we find that what we thought we believed about 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:34.580 God or about ourselves or about the situation 00:10:34.580 --> 00:10:37.259 doesn't hold up in that suffering or in that 00:10:37.259 --> 00:10:40.500 darkness. And that's where real revelation begins 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:45.000 when all the facade or fraud is stripped away. 00:10:45.379 --> 00:10:48.840 And I learned this firsthand after the trail. 00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:52.009 and the shattering of my very first marriage. 00:10:52.149 --> 00:10:55.750 I was young, and he decided he wanted to go and 00:10:55.750 --> 00:10:58.549 pursue other women and divorce me. And that left 00:10:58.549 --> 00:11:02.429 me barely functioning, working at church. I did 00:11:02.429 --> 00:11:05.809 my daily devotions. I was saying the right things. 00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:12.970 But I felt very numb and unseen and unusable. 00:11:13.230 --> 00:11:17.429 The promises that I thought I was trusting in... 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.600 now felt like taunts to me. You know, things 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:23.720 like having a family, raising children, the white 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.419 picket fence and the chickens. You know, I didn't 00:11:26.419 --> 00:11:30.259 have any of that suddenly. And my pastor, and 00:11:30.259 --> 00:11:31.960 this is what we should do when somebody's in 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.740 suffering. This is a perfect example, okay? My 00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:40.259 pastor wouldn't let me quit. She was one of the 00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:43.340 pastors. She had me and the other women in our 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:46.440 discipleship group. one day pray over the interns. 00:11:46.500 --> 00:11:49.419 She kept bringing me to the ministry table. Come 00:11:49.419 --> 00:11:51.639 and pour yourself out. Come and participate. 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:56.039 And I did not want to. I felt like I had nothing 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.779 to give. I mean, I was out. Like, I was gone. 00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:04.120 And in obedience, I stood behind one of the gentlemen 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.919 who needed to be prayed for. And I asked the 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:09.759 Lord, what should I pray? And I felt like he 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.360 said to... to pray James 1 over him which I had 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:17.200 memorized and so I prayed James 1 over this guy 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:21.100 and so I'm praying just quoting James 1 over 00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:24.940 him and he crumpled to the floor overwhelmed 00:12:24.940 --> 00:12:29.419 by God's presence and I was like uh what just 00:12:29.419 --> 00:12:32.320 happened and then he said that was the heaviest 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.740 he'd ever felt God's presence and then later 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:37.220 that night I prayed with a woman it's just a 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:40.399 regular old prayer I don't feel like it was anything 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.500 special. And I definitely didn't have anything 00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:43.980 special in me. I'll just tell you that right 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:47.559 now. And then she was completely overwhelmed 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:50.139 with the power of the Holy Spirit, just crying 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:53.600 and weeping and being healed from internal wounds 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.720 and things like that. And I asked the Lord, I 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:59.259 was like, why are you doing this right now when 00:12:59.259 --> 00:13:03.299 I feel utterly and completely empty and useless? 00:13:03.539 --> 00:13:08.419 And he said, Because you're empty, I have room 00:13:08.419 --> 00:13:12.759 to flow. My power is made perfect in your weakness. 00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:16.019 That's what Paul tells us. And so that was a 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:18.960 real turning point for me. And I realized God's 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:23.200 power isn't blocked by our brokenness. He still 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.879 moves. He's still calling. He's still commissioning. 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:28.460 And he's still choosing us even in the ruins. 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:32.759 And it really let him shine through. And it probably 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:34.940 wouldn't have if I had been just in my own strength. 00:13:35.059 --> 00:13:38.940 I'm sure of it. You have a real heart for moms 00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:42.779 and women. What encouragement would you give 00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:47.460 to the women who feels like she just doesn't 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:49.740 have time for intimacy with God in the chaos 00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:53.440 of everyday life? So the advice I would first 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:56.600 start off with is be faithful to yourself first. 00:13:57.100 --> 00:14:02.019 And no, I don't mean this version of self -care 00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:06.059 that's sort of marketed to moms like bubble baths 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:10.460 and lattes and Nails and things like that Those 00:14:10.460 --> 00:14:14.080 are not solutions to the soul care. Okay that 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:19.000 you need for the soul deep exhaustion that women 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:23.279 get, okay? I mean real soul care, which is tending 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:28.419 to that sacred part of you that needs to breathe 00:14:28.419 --> 00:14:32.320 in God. And it's really that same principle that 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.539 the flight attendants tell you, they tell you 00:14:34.539 --> 00:14:38.159 put the mask on yourself before you put the mask 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.500 on your children. Why? Because they can't put 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:43.600 it on you. So you got to take care of and be 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.649 faithful to yourself. first, in order to be able 00:14:47.649 --> 00:14:50.929 to be faithful and take care of them. And then 00:14:50.929 --> 00:14:53.929 the second thing I would tell them is to let 00:14:53.929 --> 00:14:59.009 go of this lie called balance. So balance without 00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:01.250 getting into it is a Hindu concept. It is not 00:15:01.250 --> 00:15:03.210 a biblical concept. You will not find it in the 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:06.490 Bible. It's not there. Prioritizing isn't even 00:15:06.490 --> 00:15:09.970 in the Bible. But this balance concept has been 00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:13.110 fed to women where they think they have to balance. 00:15:13.789 --> 00:15:16.830 all the things that they're supposed to be and 00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:19.870 all the things that they're supposed to do. They're 00:15:19.870 --> 00:15:23.009 not. It will kill you. And so they need to let 00:15:23.009 --> 00:15:26.610 go of this lie. It's a cultural obsession. It's 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:30.750 basically a bondage. And you lay awake at night 00:15:30.750 --> 00:15:33.590 thinking of all the things that you should have 00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:38.769 done and didn't do. So it's... Absolutely not 00:15:38.769 --> 00:15:41.590 true. You can't do all those things. You're not 00:15:41.590 --> 00:15:43.809 called to do all those things. You're called 00:15:43.809 --> 00:15:49.889 to live present in the season. wholeness, you're 00:15:49.889 --> 00:15:52.529 called to safety, you're called to all these 00:15:52.529 --> 00:15:55.169 kinds of things and bouncing and juggling things, 00:15:55.429 --> 00:15:57.509 that's not for you. It's just not for Christian 00:15:57.509 --> 00:16:00.409 women. What we need to do is be faithful to whatever 00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:03.029 season God is calling us and be present in it. 00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:06.090 That will release a lot of women from a lot of 00:16:06.090 --> 00:16:08.149 bondage and a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. 00:16:09.049 --> 00:16:11.850 How can daughters and mothers cultivate a shared 00:16:11.850 --> 00:16:14.830 or generational faith that's deeply personal? 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:20.159 So we want to pass on this deeply personal understanding 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.500 of who God is and who God has been in our lives. 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.659 And you can't pass down something that you haven't 00:16:26.659 --> 00:16:31.159 experienced or encountered. But only revelation, 00:16:31.460 --> 00:16:36.480 seeing who God is, is rooting us. It's the only 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:41.440 thing that will root us in faith. so deep that 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.919 we can withstand the world. And that's why I 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:46.480 believe one of the most powerful things we can 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.740 do as moms is to learn to name and narrate the 00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:55.620 ways God has revealed himself in our own stories. 00:16:55.899 --> 00:16:58.759 Not just what he's done, but who he's shown himself 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:03.399 to be. His name, his character, his reputation. 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.940 What he does all those things come together because 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:09.440 they're not you can't pull those apart And when 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.319 we begin to see that and to share that we will 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:16.859 begin to understand who we are in him So our 00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:21.160 identity as women is rooted and then but as women 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.720 passing it down to our daughters is Rooted in 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:29.740 who God is for example if he is Elroy the God 00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:34.240 who sees me I am seen. That is my identity. No 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.759 matter what anybody else says, and not only am 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.079 I seen, but the injustices done to me are seen. 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.680 That'll free you up. So knowing who he is tells 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:47.500 me who I am so I can tell my daughter who she 00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:52.140 is. Can you share a time when you were wrestling 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:54.579 with God and he revealed himself in a new way? 00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:59.019 I I feel like I've done a lot of wrestling with 00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:01.660 God. I must not be one of those who's really 00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:05.359 kind of afraid to wrestle with God. Let me think. 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.460 If I remember correctly, Jacob wasn't afraid 00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:13.740 to wrestle with God either. One of the ways was 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:18.119 after the divorce. Divorce is a really big thing 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.240 for women because you have a lot of identity 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:26.240 wrapped up in divorce. And I, again, felt disqualified, 00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:29.140 really. And I had even kind of dated a few other 00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:30.880 men afterwards, and they were like, well, I can't 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.819 really date you or marry you because you're divorced, 00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:35.619 which I was just like, really? OK, you couldn't 00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:38.539 figure that out before you dated me? But it was 00:18:38.539 --> 00:18:42.960 tough. And when I was dealing with all this, 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:44.900 I went away to some youth camp. I think I was 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:47.359 counselor somewhere, and I was just helping out. 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:51.779 And I said to the Lord, I'm ready to hear from 00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:54.440 you." Because up to that point, I had really 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:56.420 blocked him. I was like, do not talk to me right 00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:59.339 now. Do not require anything of me. Do not talk 00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:03.539 to me. And he, as soon as I said, I'm ready to 00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:07.069 hear from you, he spoke. That... person who was 00:19:07.069 --> 00:19:10.210 scheduled to speak a sermon he stood me up and 00:19:10.210 --> 00:19:12.730 he spoke to my heart and he said things that 00:19:12.730 --> 00:19:14.569 nobody else could possibly have known except 00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:19.170 God and basically recommissioned me. So the wrestling 00:19:19.170 --> 00:19:22.890 came maybe even in that time before and then 00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:25.809 it was like okay now I'm ready to hear from you 00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:28.690 and then boom he was there. There's other times 00:19:28.690 --> 00:19:30.849 as well but that that's probably one of those 00:19:30.849 --> 00:19:32.890 times that stands out in your mind because it 00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:36.170 answers Am I disqualified? Am I going to ever 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:40.549 be used of God or married again or doing something 00:19:40.549 --> 00:19:43.450 different? Or the dreams I had as a child, are 00:19:43.450 --> 00:19:46.289 they dead? Are they gone? These are legitimate 00:19:46.289 --> 00:19:49.170 things that we wrestle with. So many of us have 00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:52.049 been conditioned to do for God instead of be 00:19:52.049 --> 00:19:54.869 with Him. What helped you let go of spiritual 00:19:54.869 --> 00:20:00.150 striving and instead learn to receive God's pursuit 00:20:00.150 --> 00:20:03.819 of you? When I grew up in the church, there was 00:20:03.819 --> 00:20:07.380 a lot of doing in the church. And that was part 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:09.779 of the church culture. There was even a saying, 00:20:10.180 --> 00:20:13.420 don't call in when you're sick, crawl in. Okay. 00:20:13.420 --> 00:20:16.180 That was the culture of quote unquote excellence 00:20:16.180 --> 00:20:18.440 that I grew up in. So there was a lot of do, 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:21.000 do, doing in that. Let me tell you. And I was 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.440 there five, six days a week, at least working, 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:27.359 loving it and loving God and loving people. But 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.200 you know, you can get burnt out that way. And 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:37.250 I was. 13 and I began to see a level of hypocrisy 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:40.849 and hurt and people hurting people as they do 00:20:40.849 --> 00:20:45.710 and even some church abuse and I told my parents 00:20:45.710 --> 00:20:48.470 that I was not sure this Christian thing was 00:20:48.470 --> 00:20:52.509 for me and my dad who is a pastor did not panic 00:20:52.509 --> 00:20:56.019 he took me to the library and he helped me check 00:20:56.019 --> 00:20:58.859 out books on every religion, a main religion 00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:01.700 and quite a few of the smaller ones. And I studied 00:21:01.700 --> 00:21:05.700 that to basically deconstruct my faith. That 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:07.400 wasn't a thing. We didn't talk like that. Nobody 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:12.109 had that word. But I deconstructed those man 00:21:12.109 --> 00:21:17.210 -made traditions and reconstructed a faith based 00:21:17.210 --> 00:21:19.789 on a couple of things. One, I knew that Jesus 00:21:19.789 --> 00:21:22.210 Christ was real and that he wanted a relationship 00:21:22.210 --> 00:21:25.730 with me personally. That was a key. The second 00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:29.400 part was whatever he said was going to go for 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:31.799 me, whether it was in the Old Testament or the 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:33.900 New Testament, whatever God said was going to 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:38.799 go for me, not whatever man said. So when a fad 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.779 like wearing skirts or doilies on the back of 00:21:41.779 --> 00:21:43.779 the head or whatever blew through the church, 00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:47.140 I didn't fall for it because It wasn't in the 00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:49.859 Bible. I'm not going to fall for that. And so 00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:53.640 I think deconstructing at an early age made me 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.380 lean on, what does God say? Let's have that. 00:21:57.619 --> 00:22:00.980 I don't really care what man says. And so the 00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:03.740 doo -doo doing and the people pleasing really 00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:06.099 wasn't a part of my vocabulary from about 14 00:22:06.099 --> 00:22:09.200 onward. What's one practice or mindset shift 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.539 that helped you stop performing and start abiding? 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.319 Definitely the silence as a discipline is very 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:23.140 important to me. I spend at least 15 -20 minutes 00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:27.640 in just deep contemplative silence. Not meditation 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:31.740 like Hindus or Buddhists or whatever, just deep 00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:34.900 meditative silence where my mind is centered 00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:38.440 on Christ. So that's centering that the old... 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.880 church fathers practiced. That has been a very 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.240 important part of abiding. And then scripture 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:48.099 is very important to me. I like to eat it. I 00:22:48.099 --> 00:22:51.599 like to feast on it. I don't like to blow through 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.160 it. There's this thing in the American church 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.680 where it's all about, I finished 12 books in 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.180 12 days. And I'm like, great, do you remember 00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:03.940 anything you read? Did you apply it? Did you 00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:08.170 know anything? You just consumed it. It's sort 00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:11.230 of this materialistic consuming of the Bible. 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:15.869 So I will deeply contemplate one scripture. Bonhoeffer 00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:18.789 used to say that a mature Christian could focus 00:23:18.789 --> 00:23:22.529 a month on one scripture passage. I'm not there 00:23:22.529 --> 00:23:26.869 yet, but I do like to spend several, several 00:23:26.869 --> 00:23:31.410 weeks going over a few scriptures in like one 00:23:31.410 --> 00:23:35.609 single area so that I extract from it every bit 00:23:35.609 --> 00:23:39.250 that I can. And there's this thing that happens 00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:42.430 with this living Word of God where you think 00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:44.900 you've gotten everything out of it. And then 00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:47.400 you come to it or you've encountered someone 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.380 or someone has said something and it just makes 00:23:50.380 --> 00:23:52.619 it come alive again and in a new way that you 00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:55.240 didn't even see. And that's the way the living 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:58.460 God is. And when he breathes his living word, 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.440 it's amazing how it continues to be deep for 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:06.319 you. So those two things, I think, together really 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.700 help me abide. So you've been through intense 00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:11.880 suffering, divorce, miscarriages, and even breaking 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.450 your neck twice. How did God meet you in those 00:24:14.450 --> 00:24:16.630 moments? And how did they shape your relationship 00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:20.789 with Him now? It revealed to me how near He really 00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:25.549 was. So when... My first husband divorced me 00:24:25.549 --> 00:24:28.829 when I lost my first child in miscarriage when 00:24:28.829 --> 00:24:32.369 the man I loved and later married broke up with 00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:35.890 me for the third time and Then dated the woman 00:24:35.890 --> 00:24:39.150 he thought was the woman of his dreams When I 00:24:39.150 --> 00:24:41.809 broke my neck in a car accident and broke it 00:24:41.809 --> 00:24:44.470 skiing too, by the way When I lost my second 00:24:44.470 --> 00:24:47.089 child and when I waited ten years for the birth 00:24:47.089 --> 00:24:50.990 of my son So I say that list to let people know 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.940 I haven't just been through some cookie -cutter 00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:58.339 life. It's been a life that has had some hardships. 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.059 But throughout all of it, it was the God who 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:08.140 kept me. anchored in who he was. So I mentioned 00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:11.119 Delroy, the God who sees me. That's what keeps 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.200 you from losing faith. But there's also Jehovah 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:19.099 -Nesi, which means the Lord our banner that declares 00:25:19.099 --> 00:25:22.599 truth over me, not what somebody else gossips 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.019 or slanders or says. Even my ex -husband and 00:25:26.019 --> 00:25:28.000 the things that maybe he said that kind of got 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.420 there, weren't their way into my heart and wounded 00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:51.809 me. Those things can't How can we begin to see 00:25:51.809 --> 00:25:55.289 our pain? Not as a disqualifier, but as a sacred 00:25:55.289 --> 00:25:57.670 ground where God might actually want to meet 00:25:57.670 --> 00:26:01.210 us. I think we have to know that pain doesn't 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:03.970 disqualify us, and I've used that word before 00:26:03.970 --> 00:26:07.390 just in this podcast, because I think sometimes 00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:11.710 we think pain and suffering means that the dreams 00:26:11.710 --> 00:26:15.230 we had are no longer going to be true. They may 00:26:15.230 --> 00:26:18.269 look different, but they are still true. God 00:26:18.269 --> 00:26:20.690 put them in our hearts, they will come to pass. 00:26:21.430 --> 00:26:24.519 The pain... not only does it disqualify us, but 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.720 it draws us into the wilderness. And, you know, 00:26:27.819 --> 00:26:30.859 people talk about a wilderness season. Sometimes 00:26:30.859 --> 00:26:33.380 you'll hear them talk. People get very bitter 00:26:33.380 --> 00:26:36.359 sometimes during a wilderness season. But a wilderness 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.880 is where God strips away all that doesn't matter 00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:44.140 in order to bring us to himself. So Israelites 00:26:44.140 --> 00:26:47.059 got stripped of all the Egypt. And he brought 00:26:47.059 --> 00:26:50.799 them to himself. He says, by my own wings, I 00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:53.759 carried you to me and they meet at the mountain 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.160 of God. So wilderness seasons are sacred. They 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.180 are sacred because, again, they silence the noise. 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.660 They spotlight what's precious and eternal. And 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.960 in those sacred places, we don't need complicated 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.880 theological answers. We need His presence. And 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:13.359 when His presence descended on the mountain of 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.000 God, they knew it. There was no questioning. 00:27:16.059 --> 00:27:18.339 They were very much afraid of it. But the map 00:27:18.339 --> 00:27:21.160 for the wilderness of God is very simple, too. 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.940 The map is look for the mountain of God. Stay 00:27:24.940 --> 00:27:28.539 there. experience His presence, receive from 00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:32.119 Him what He wants you to have from Him, and dwell 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:34.740 with Him. That is the whole purpose of everything. 00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:37.400 From the beginning of the Bible to the end of 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.059 the Bible, God wants to dwell with us. And you 00:27:41.059 --> 00:27:43.119 know, in Revelation, at the very end, it says, 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.900 and finally, the dwelling of God is with man. 00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:50.000 That's the whole purpose of it all. He wants 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:57.099 to dwell with us. the reset course and other 00:27:57.099 --> 00:27:59.859 tools for spiritual transformation. Can you walk 00:27:59.859 --> 00:28:04.140 us through some practical ways that help restore 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:06.980 joy and intimacy with God? Yeah, absolutely. 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:10.660 So restoring joy and intimacy with God comes 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:15.579 by creating intentional spaces to meet with him. 00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:19.160 So that's why we've developed some of these resources 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.619 that don't just give information, they create 00:28:23.619 --> 00:28:28.180 rhythms for transformation. So the reset course 00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:32.339 is a seven -week online experience. It's a small 00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:37.599 group of people that my dad and I walk through 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.490 the Revelation ship devotional with them. And 00:28:41.490 --> 00:28:46.130 it's really made to help people slow down, re 00:28:46.130 --> 00:28:49.309 -center and actually encounter God through scripture, 00:28:49.710 --> 00:28:54.190 worship, reflection, discussion. And this summer 00:28:54.190 --> 00:28:56.470 we're going to have a 14 week, which kind of 00:28:56.470 --> 00:29:00.450 extends it a little bit and that will offer a 00:29:00.450 --> 00:29:03.630 little bit more depth. And what we're finding 00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:06.349 though is even when people are committing to 00:29:06.349 --> 00:29:09.359 a seven week course, they have to miss a few 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:12.680 because life is crazy and that's what's happening. 00:29:13.059 --> 00:29:15.799 So we also have the rev -ev relationship devotional, 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:17.720 which is what we go through in the recent course. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.299 It's a deeply immersive tool, so it's not like 00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:24.069 just a typical black and white devotional. Every 00:29:24.069 --> 00:29:28.190 page is designed to draw you in. It has beautiful 00:29:28.190 --> 00:29:30.369 pictures that you can just sit there and look 00:29:30.369 --> 00:29:33.750 at and pray. You have QR codes that you can scan 00:29:33.750 --> 00:29:38.109 and listen to worship. Mindfulness prompts. There's 00:29:38.109 --> 00:29:41.250 scripture reflections to guide your conversation. 00:29:41.730 --> 00:29:45.230 Again, made to make you pause and notice his 00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:49.869 presence and reawaken yourself to his pursuit 00:29:49.869 --> 00:29:53.369 of you. And then we have The known devotional, 00:29:53.390 --> 00:29:56.069 which is coming out on Amazon, but it's free 00:29:56.069 --> 00:29:58.549 right now on my website so people can go and 00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:00.349 download it on my website. But it's the known 00:30:00.349 --> 00:30:05.069 devotional. It explores 32 names of God and it 00:30:05.069 --> 00:30:09.029 pairs each one with an identity truth about who 00:30:09.029 --> 00:30:12.150 we are in light of who he is. So it's this rhythm 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:16.269 of. anchoring yourself every day in God's character, 00:30:16.829 --> 00:30:20.529 then shaping your self -understanding, and then 00:30:20.529 --> 00:30:22.390 we're going to turn it into a children's devotional 00:30:22.390 --> 00:30:25.309 because these are the building blocks of our 00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:28.609 children's identity as well, and it's very important 00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:31.029 for that next generation to internalize them. 00:30:31.410 --> 00:30:35.589 So all this together is really about creating 00:30:35.589 --> 00:30:38.089 space, and they can get them at Revelation Net 00:30:38.089 --> 00:30:40.660 is where they can go to get all of it. So for 00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:43.619 the listener who feels spiritually dry or disconnected, 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:46.680 what's a simple first step to begin connecting 00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:49.400 with Jesus today? I think you have to start with 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.180 honesty. If you're spiritually dry, don't try 00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:56.200 to fake it and don't try to fake your way out 00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.880 of it. Jesus doesn't need your performance. He 00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:03.200 wants your presence. So you just have to say 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.359 something like, Jesus, I miss you and I don't 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:10.579 feel you right now and I want to. And that honest 00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:14.519 prayer is all you need to open the door. And 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.940 then I'd say, take a small step of returning 00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:23.400 to Him. So turn off social media for maybe a 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.720 week or something like that. Play a worship song 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.519 while you sit there with your Word open. Maybe 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:31.359 the Word of God isn't saying anything to you 00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.279 right now. Just leave it open. Play a worship 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.859 song. Then go on a walk. Say his name out loud. 00:31:39.500 --> 00:31:43.140 Just do something that signals that your head 00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:46.140 and your heart are turning to him again. And 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:50.039 he promises, if we draw near, he will draw near 00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:52.700 to us. That's what he says. He's not wanting 00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:55.079 us to climb some kind of ladder or some holy 00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.460 hill. He's walking toward us. We just have to 00:31:58.460 --> 00:32:02.000 kind of turn towards him. If you could sit down 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:06.420 with every wahoman. listening to this podcast 00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:08.980 right now. What would you want her to know about 00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:11.660 God's heart for her right now in the middle of 00:32:11.660 --> 00:32:14.779 her unfinished story? I would want her to know 00:32:14.779 --> 00:32:19.400 that God is not distant from your story. He's 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:23.799 in it. All of it. So many of the women I disciple, 00:32:23.900 --> 00:32:29.000 they carry a lot of weight on their chest and 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:32.259 they're anxious about what's ahead. They're haunted 00:32:32.259 --> 00:32:36.859 by what's behind. And they're paralyzed by pressure 00:32:36.859 --> 00:32:42.019 to get it right in this moment. And there are 00:32:42.019 --> 00:32:45.180 some layers of anxiety that absolutely need support. 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.680 Medicine, help, counseling, all the above. But 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:52.920 what I'm talking about is the form of anxiety 00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.700 that comes from fear. that we carry from really 00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:00.839 kind of forgetting who God is in our lives. And 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.980 so the Bible reveals that God is omnipresent, 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.220 meaning always present. Not just beside you in 00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:10.099 the now, which I think we kind of get that a 00:33:10.099 --> 00:33:11.900 little bit more. You know, He's here with me 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:13.920 now. He'll never leave my side. He'll never leave 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.779 me nor forsake me. But what we don't know or 00:33:16.779 --> 00:33:21.069 don't really think about is He's also fully present 00:33:21.069 --> 00:33:24.190 still in the past. He never left the present 00:33:24.190 --> 00:33:27.029 and he's always present in the future. I'm there 00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.170 with him. I just haven't experienced it yet, 00:33:29.690 --> 00:33:33.630 but he's there. And so that kind of understanding 00:33:33.630 --> 00:33:37.789 of presence can calm anxiety. It can calm your 00:33:37.789 --> 00:33:39.769 fears about your past because he's back there 00:33:39.769 --> 00:33:44.109 redeeming it and your current and your future. 00:33:44.299 --> 00:33:47.500 And it really rewrites our sense of identity 00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:51.900 and safety, finding safety in God. And the thing 00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:54.819 I would tell women is you are not behind. You 00:33:54.819 --> 00:33:57.660 did not miss an appointment. You are not forgotten. 00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:01.019 You are not alone. And even in the middle of 00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:03.839 your unfinished story that you feel like is taking 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:08.739 twists and turns, God is at work and he's redeeming 00:34:08.739 --> 00:34:12.460 it. He's healing it and leading you forward in 00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:15.360 love. toward the victory where you guys are dwelling 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:18.860 together in the future, and you're victorious. 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.760 And I love that picture, even though I haven't 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.739 encountered it fully yet. Thank you so much for 00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:27.079 joining us today on the Unfiltered Faith Podcast. 00:34:27.460 --> 00:34:29.579 Whether you're listening while you're driving, 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.599 multitasking through the chaos, or finally catching 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.840 a quiet moment for yourself, know this. God is 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.940 near. He's not asking you to have it all figured 00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:41.800 out. He's simply inviting you to be with Him 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.599 right where you are. A huge thank you to Cathy 00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:47.480 for sharing her heart, her story, and her deep 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.900 well -wisdom with us today. Revelationship isn't 00:34:50.900 --> 00:34:54.059 just a book, it's a lifeline, an invitation to 00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:57.000 meet Jesus in the real, raw, and ordinary places 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.480 of our lives. To you the listener, I pray today's 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:03.340 conversation reminded you that your pain isn't 00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:06.179 a disqualifier, it's often the very place where 00:35:06.179 --> 00:35:09.239 God wants to meet you. You don't have to perform 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.579 or prove anything to be loved, you already are. 00:35:12.739 --> 00:35:15.320 So take a breath, take a step, and know this, 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.980 God's not done with your story, not even close. 00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:22.940 Until next time, keep seeking those fresh perspectives 00:35:22.940 --> 00:35:26.099 and keep having those unfiltered conversations 00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:28.320 with others to better understand the world around 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:28.619 us.