WEBVTT

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As the host of the fastest growing podcast on

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county issues in the state of Washington. Oh,

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wait a minute. You're talking about me. I am

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talking about you. Welcome to County Connection,

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the official podcast of the Washington State

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Association of Counties, where we dive into the

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legislative issues shaping the future of our

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communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure

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to elections, we'll break down what's happening

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in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across

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the evergreen state. Stay informed, stay engaged,

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and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's

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39 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the

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County Connection podcast, the official podcast

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of the Washington State Association of Counties.

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I'm Paul Jewell. It is the 25th of April, believe

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it or not. Well, it's a little after 4 o 'clock

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here in the afternoon, and it's not really a

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big day. Well, it is kind of a big day. Today's

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another cutoff day, actually. But that's not

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what we're here to talk about today. We're here

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to talk about the budgets. And I've got Brian

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Enslow back in the studio with me. Brian, we

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had such a good time talking about the budgets

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last year. We did. I figured. Who am I going

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to get to talk? Well, of course, I'm going to

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call Brian and we're going to hash it out and

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we're going to help people understand what's

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in the state operating budget proposals in both

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the House and the Senate. And by the time they're

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done with this podcast, they are going to be

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in the know better than anybody, at least in

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their own household. That's a bold statement.

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Probably on their block. The only thing I will

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say is nothing we said last year was definitively

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wrong. Or fireable. Or lastly, nor did we receive

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like an angry call from someone on it. You know

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what they call that? A successful podcast. That's

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what I think so too. So that's why we're running

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it back, Paul. Let's do it again. That's why

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we're doing it again. Let's hope that we get

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the same outcome this year. So strangely enough.

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I was just listening to a podcast that I recorded

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last week that I think we just released today

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when I was talking with Brad Banks, who says

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hi, by the way. He just gave me a ride back from

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a meeting that we had at the Capitol so that

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I could get back here quickly. And he wanted

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you to know he said hello. Shout out to Brad

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Banks. By the way, Brad Banks, notoriously good

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driver. Very good driver. Yeah. Although you

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don't want to look at his windshield. I don't

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know what's going on there. Okay. Cracks everywhere.

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That feels like a metaphor. It might be a metaphor.

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I don't know. Metaphor for what? I think we're

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just going to let the listeners figure that out

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for themselves. So budget. Yeah. But I was listening

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to the podcast, and we were mentioning how the

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budgets were coming out on Sunday. And they did.

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Indeed. They came out Sunday afternoon. Yes.

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So just a couple of days ago. Very unusual to

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see the budgets come out on Sunday. Not so unusual

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on the weekends. I've seen one coming out on

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Saturdays before, but never before on a Sunday.

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You've been around longer. Have you ever seen

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that before on a Sunday? No. What we used to

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see was a budget introduced on a Monday or a

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Tuesday, a press conference. Right. And then

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very civilized, like 24 or 48 hours before there

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was a hearing. And then what we started to get

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more recently was. Budget being released on a

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Monday and then being heard minutes after it

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was. Yeah, Monday afternoon. Yeah. And so I think

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it was Senator Robinson two years ago, maybe,

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that first kind of introduced the like, okay,

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guys, I am going to give you a sneak preview

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before my hearing. Yeah. But it's going to be

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on the weekend. Right. And so not great, right?

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You know, when you think about families, work

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-life balance, things like that. Yeah, not so

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fun to be working on a Sunday. No, but. If the

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alternative is press conference, then hearing,

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I appreciate getting some time. Yeah. And so

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they came out Sunday afternoon, about three,

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I think was the first one around three, three

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30. The other one that was the Senate version,

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if I'm not mistaken, the house version came out

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about four, four 30. And then they were heard

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on Monday. And so this is Wednesday. So this

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was two days ago that the hearings actually occurred.

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We're a little behind, but we wanted to actually

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take some time and dive deeper into these budgets

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so we can really understand kind of what's going

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on. And there's a lot to talk about here, folks.

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Brian. I'm Brian. You're Paul. I'm Paul. They're

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the listeners. You're Brian. They're the listeners.

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Brian, I hope you've done your homework on this

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one because you know a lot more about these budgets

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than I do. You worked in the legislature. Were

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you a budget writer? Did you work in the budget

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office for a while? I was a budget assistant

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to two separate governors, Locke administration

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and Gregoire administration, as well as being

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an in -house budget writer for the House Appropriations

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Committee. So you have a good idea of what's

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kind of going on behind the scenes with some

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of these budgets that the reports that we get,

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at least on the fiscal .wa .gov website, don't

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necessarily paint the picture real clearly. It's

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really hard sometimes. Yeah, it is. And being

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on the inside is obviously, one, you're included

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in the conversation. So you kind of understand

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what's going on. But two, you do see more information

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than what is available to the public in terms

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of the back end budget systems. And the way that

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I'm reading these budgets. You know, there's

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a lot of gimmicks here. And I don't use that

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term disrespectfully. But there's some accounting

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kind of sleights of hand, transfers in, transfers

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out, replacement funding here, replacement funding

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there. You know, different tricks to push things

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out in different ways to have different effects

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on the bottom line here on both the revenue side

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as well as the expense side. And there are some

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pretty... You know, there's strong similarities

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between both proposals, but there's also some

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pretty stark differences to talk about as well.

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From a budget technician's viewpoint, these budgets

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are a symphony of creativity when it comes to

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figure out how to maximize the resources that

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you have at hand. So tricks? No, there's no tricks

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here. There's no sleight of hand. There's no

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all of those. Terms that you use to impugn the

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value of professional staff. These are valid

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techniques, strategies. That's what I meant to

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say. So as I mentioned last year, and Paul, as

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we discussed in our preamble, this is the fastest

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growing podcast on county issues in the state

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of Washington. So I don't want to assume, I assume

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we have a lot of newer listeners. We probably

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do. But one of the overarching themes of... of

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both of these budgets are that we are in a time

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of high inflation where uh um the cost of doing

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service has exceeded the revenue that is um currently

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being collected and i'm being very click like

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revenue's still been pretty fine in fact the

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most recent forecast was actually Yeah, it's

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like the cost, the rate at which it's increasing

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has surpassed the pace at which the revenue is

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increasing. Yes, and I perhaps, I did not use

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inflation from a pure economic standpoint to

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talk up. I should have said the cost of providing

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the underlying services. So cost of salaries

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and benefits, things like that. Okay, so thank

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you for allowing me a little grace on that. And

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then the other kind of unique feature that is...

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That is kind of baked into that concept where

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we've had stable resources. We had a very significant

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revenue package that, depending on your one's

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math, was in the $8 to $9 billion last year.

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continue to grow our bond model and our capital

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debt capacity and then of course by adding all

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that revenue we we inflated it so what does that

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mean brian that means for the last couple years

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we have been cash poor and like credit card rich

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right we've had all this bond capacity right

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but not necessarily the cash on hand right and

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so that's some of the interplay that's going

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on here And what's interesting about that is,

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I mean, that whole credit piece, right, that

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debt capacity piece that you're kind of talking

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about, it doesn't play out the way that you might

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think it would in a supplemental this year because

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of some of the valid strategies that they've

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utilized in balancing these budgets. I want to

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talk mainly. on the operating budgets because

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that's where you know the meat of the budget

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is the capital budget is projects and things

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like that and i know we have members out there

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who are probably very interested to see if some

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something they wanted funded in the capital budget

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got funded but the real story that i want to

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focus on is kind of what's happening on the operating

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side but it's hard to talk about that without

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also kind of at least talking a little bit about

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what's happening on the capital yeah because

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to my so the senate budget capital budget supplemental

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capital budget spends um boy that s was a little

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hot there yeah that's gonna pop on that so you're

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gonna to our intro no one's gonna like the sound

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of my voice on that one the senate capital budget

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supplemental spends 700 million in like new stuff

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right and then transfers a billion a billion

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dollars out yeah so More than half of what's

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going on there is being given to the operating

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budget. Yeah, so when you look at it, one of

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the comments that I had after I read it was,

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I've never seen such a skinny supplemental capital

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budget in my life. Yes. As far as... There's

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not a lot of new there. You'd be surprised how

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few pages it takes to go through $700 million

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in a state capital budget when you're looking

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for new projects and when you're looking for

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new expenditures. There's a lot of pages because

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there's a lot of crossing out of certain types

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of funding and replacing it with other funding

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so that transfers can be made right to the operating

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budget. But there's just not a lot of substance

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compared to what we've seen in the past. Can

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I? Can I? Can I take our listeners behind the

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curtain a little bit? A little bit, sure. Yeah,

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that's what we're here for. It's a little bit

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off topic. Yeah, that's what they want to know.

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So for the listeners, I represent single local

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government entities. And one of the things that

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we like is we like pudding, Paul. We like pudding.

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Okay. Not literally. I have a feeling that pudding

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is an analogy for... Money. Earmarks, which is...

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Government funding. Pork. Right. Yeah. You continue

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to use language that feels loaded to me, Paul.

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Sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, Paul is... It's

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been a rough day for everybody. It's been a long

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day. It's been a long week. It's going to come

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out. Just be glad I'm not recording this on a

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Friday this week. And Paul, you would say, how

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much pudding? And I would say, more pudding.

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Exactly. And no pudding. this year no like none

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and you know it's really interesting for dessert

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your heart it's really interesting because like

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you know the members when they're going to serve

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you pudding they like they like to let you know

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they want to tell you first and so like i will

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get calls yeah and and the other things too is

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well they love to take credit for it they want

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to they want to be the first and i really appreciate

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it and the other thing you can tell like when

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you're going to get some pudding because they'll

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start asking you questions can we say like cake

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or Ice cream. I don't know. I'm not a big pudding

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fan. I'm locked on. I'm locked in. Okay. End

00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:12.779
of the pudding argument. Porridge? That's too

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long of a twist. Yeah, that's terrible. So they'll

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ask you questions like, can you do half? Is it

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scalable? Is it scalable? What steps would you

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take? Who would be out? Who would be in? My phone

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did not ring a single time. Like, you know, nothing.

00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:35.600
Yeah, mine neither. In fact, the day before I

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had a meeting with a legislator who was sponsoring

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a proviso, whose idea the proviso actually was,

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this legislator asked me to write the proviso.

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I won't tell you who it was. But they're like,

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Paul, we're not getting your proviso. No, that

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wasn't it. She said, have you heard anything?

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And I said, well, so -and -so, if you haven't,

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there's a good chance that it's not happening

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because I haven't heard a darn thing. So that

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was not a good sign. And I feel like I was not

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alone in that regard. So, yeah. So sorry to take

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everyone behind the curtain there. So, yeah,

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to your point, Paul. It was slim pickings on

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kind of capitalist transportation as well. And

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we don't have to talk about it. Well, just to

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set the stage, we got, you know, if you were

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going to bottom line it, as far as the supplemental

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budgets go on the operating side, we got a $79

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.9 billion budget proposal from the House. We

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got an $80 .2 billion budget proposal from the

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Senate. Right. Three hundred thousand or three

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hundred million dollars apart. That's it. That's

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actually very close. That is very close. Very

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close. But that's kind of it starts right there.

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.580
Very close. And then it just kind of disperses.

00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:08.419
Does that make sense? It kind of there's some

00:14:08.419 --> 00:14:10.220
there's there's some there's some similarities,

00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:13.259
but then there's some really stark kind of differences

00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:17.659
from how it diverges from that very close number.

00:14:18.990 --> 00:14:23.789
To the details within the budgets. You know...

00:14:25.429 --> 00:14:28.909
There's this report that was named after like

00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:30.750
Dave Johnson, Mike Wills. Dave Johnson is still

00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:33.669
there, professional staff. But it's a report

00:14:33.669 --> 00:14:36.409
that compares where the differences are. And

00:14:36.409 --> 00:14:38.950
it's a Mike and Dave report. And I don't know

00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:40.730
if they still use it or still call it that. Was

00:14:40.730 --> 00:14:41.830
it actually called the Mike and Dave report?

00:14:42.009 --> 00:14:44.450
That's what we all call it on staff. That's great.

00:14:44.730 --> 00:14:48.149
But you can actually access essentially a version

00:14:48.149 --> 00:14:49.990
of the Mike and Dave report on fiscal law, which

00:14:49.990 --> 00:14:51.789
is where you compare the two versions and you

00:14:51.789 --> 00:14:54.289
see the differences. And it's a really long list

00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.419
of differences. right now yeah and as you move

00:14:56.419 --> 00:14:58.539
along the negotiation that report gets smaller

00:14:58.539 --> 00:15:00.840
and smaller and smaller and when so you know

00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.120
when it gets to zero you're done but a budget

00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.779
it's not bad from a negotiating standpoint that

00:15:07.779 --> 00:15:11.039
the size of the box is agreed on yeah that's

00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.519
a good start um now you just got to figure out

00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:18.019
which pieces and which places right and and generally

00:15:18.019 --> 00:15:23.639
some of the largest components are agreed on

00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:30.000
on the revenue side. And so, and it looks like

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.200
I, so on the revenue, so how do that, on how

00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.259
you get to how you support that number. And I'm

00:15:38.259 --> 00:15:41.179
speaking primarily that both budgets are assuming

00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:45.080
revenue from the millionaire's tax. Well, they

00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:46.720
are in the four -year outlook. Yes, in the four

00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:48.419
-year. Yes, but not in the two -year outlook.

00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:50.659
Neither one of them books any dollars in the

00:15:50.659 --> 00:15:57.129
two -year outlook. Which is accurate. Yeah. But

00:15:57.129 --> 00:15:59.929
big picture on how they make their budget work

00:15:59.929 --> 00:16:02.070
over that four -year requirement, which both

00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:05.169
of them are still working under. Right. They

00:16:05.169 --> 00:16:11.950
have roughly $2 billion in out years on the millionaires.

00:16:11.950 --> 00:16:14.769
So let's remind people about this two -year,

00:16:14.809 --> 00:16:16.549
four -year thing, right? Fantastic. Because I

00:16:16.549 --> 00:16:19.309
think this is really important. Yeah. So we have

00:16:19.309 --> 00:16:22.730
a four -year. Budget outlook, but we have a two

00:16:22.730 --> 00:16:26.389
-year budget here in Washington. We have a biennial

00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:30.129
legislative session. The first year is the long

00:16:30.129 --> 00:16:31.889
session. That was last year. We're in the second

00:16:31.889 --> 00:16:34.409
year now. That's why it's a supplemental budget

00:16:34.409 --> 00:16:36.330
that we're talking about. This is the second

00:16:36.330 --> 00:16:40.570
year. It starts June 1 of this year and goes

00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:44.539
through. It's close. I'm sorry, July 1. There

00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:46.820
we go. Excuse me, of this year. Thanks. No, no.

00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:48.480
No, you're right. I knew something sounded wrong.

00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.399
It ends June 30th, starts July 1, goes through

00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:55.460
June 30th of 2027. Yes. So that's the second

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:58.039
year. We're in the second biennium right before

00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:03.279
the start of the second fiscal year. So the details

00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:05.680
in the budget that we're talking about right

00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.640
now, that $79 .9 billion, that $80 .2 billion,

00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.119
that's the two -year budget. That's the general

00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:16.369
fund. current or near -term outlook. But our

00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:20.009
statutes, our state law requires a four -year

00:17:20.009 --> 00:17:23.269
consideration, right? A four -year outlook on

00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:27.009
our budget so that... Every legislature has to

00:17:27.009 --> 00:17:29.710
look at not just the two -year impacts, but at

00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:32.069
least two more years down the road, which is

00:17:32.069 --> 00:17:35.250
actually a really good budgeting tool to understand

00:17:35.250 --> 00:17:38.369
how the decisions that you're making today will

00:17:38.369 --> 00:17:41.130
affect at least two years down the road because

00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:44.650
that's the next. That's the start of the next

00:17:44.650 --> 00:17:46.849
biennium. So when we're talking about the budget,

00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:49.109
a lot of people will talk about it in two -year

00:17:49.109 --> 00:17:50.990
terms and in four -year terms. It's really important

00:17:50.990 --> 00:17:52.329
to understand which one you're talking about.

00:17:52.849 --> 00:17:54.809
The two -year terms is the one where you get

00:17:54.809 --> 00:17:57.170
down to the line items. Boom, boom, boom, boom,

00:17:57.170 --> 00:17:59.670
boom, boom, boom. The four -year is... not quite

00:17:59.670 --> 00:18:01.849
to that level. It's more of an estimate based

00:18:01.849 --> 00:18:04.549
on carryover, carryforward, et cetera, and no

00:18:04.549 --> 00:18:08.609
new spending necessarily. But that four -year,

00:18:08.670 --> 00:18:11.869
so the two out years, the four -year, will change

00:18:11.869 --> 00:18:14.650
dramatically with the next biennium. Yes. And

00:18:14.650 --> 00:18:19.990
Paul used to really... an important term, which

00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:22.670
is carry forward, which is a calculation that

00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:26.390
is done with rigor between the governor's budget

00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:32.130
office, OFM, and the legislature. And it is more

00:18:32.130 --> 00:18:36.269
germane and relevant in a states like Washington

00:18:36.269 --> 00:18:38.910
where we do two -year budgets. So for instance,

00:18:39.009 --> 00:18:41.490
if you have a program, hypothetical program,

00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:47.250
that is budgeted at $100, I'll use a simple number.

00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:49.730
Yeah, simple round number. $100 in the first

00:18:49.730 --> 00:18:52.029
year of the biennium, but then there's some sort

00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:54.970
of policy change and funding change. So in the

00:18:54.970 --> 00:18:57.869
second year of the biennium, their funding is

00:18:57.869 --> 00:19:03.829
$150. You don't move forward with combining those

00:19:03.829 --> 00:19:06.509
two for $250. Your carry forward number would

00:19:06.509 --> 00:19:10.210
be $300. Right. Unless, and we'll get to this

00:19:10.210 --> 00:19:12.450
later. Because you're assuming that because it

00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:14.390
made the change in the second year, that that

00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:17.200
second year is now the new. One year standard.

00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.680
Correct. Right. And you carry those numbers forward.

00:19:19.779 --> 00:19:21.900
Plus, I assume some sort of growth factor or

00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:24.759
interest, you know, caseload, whatever, based

00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:26.779
on some sort of moving average, probably. For

00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:30.140
all the super duper budget geeks, the carry forward

00:19:30.140 --> 00:19:34.019
step is specifically. as it pertains to the budget

00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:36.960
step, is simply that piece, and then the inflationary

00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.680
stuff is at maintenance level. But in the purpose

00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:40.759
of the four -year, there are inflationary factors

00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:46.660
included. Yes. Right. And you did a nice job

00:19:46.660 --> 00:19:49.240
of cutting me off, but unless it is specifically

00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.660
indicated in a budget note or something that

00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:55.380
it is only one time, which we'll have to come

00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:57.470
back to soon on the... on one of the transfers.

00:19:57.589 --> 00:19:59.849
And that's interesting because when you, I love

00:19:59.849 --> 00:20:01.450
that point because like when you look through,

00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:03.609
especially this year's budget documents, there's

00:20:03.609 --> 00:20:10.109
a lot of those one time kind of little markers,

00:20:10.369 --> 00:20:12.410
I guess, for lack of a better term. And it actually

00:20:12.410 --> 00:20:15.359
does say. One time. Yep. We're making this one

00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.000
time. One time. Or we're making this, the other

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.940
one that you see is ongoing. So that's a clear

00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:23.339
indicator of what the intent is of the legislature,

00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:25.920
right? And they use that when they're looking

00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.940
at their carry forward numbers and they're doing

00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:31.779
their four -year budget outlook. So you made

00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:35.700
a really good point. The assumption of the millionaire's

00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:39.759
tax is how they balance their four -year budget.

00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:41.740
Right. It's how they balance year three and five.

00:20:42.430 --> 00:20:45.109
And I think to your point, how they balance year

00:20:45.109 --> 00:20:50.049
one and two is transfers. Yes. And so, yeah,

00:20:50.329 --> 00:20:52.490
and that difference, that $300 million difference

00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:55.690
isn't entirely made up on transfers, but the

00:20:55.690 --> 00:20:59.349
Senate transfers like $1 .1 billion, and the

00:20:59.349 --> 00:21:03.730
House is around $950 million. So there's $200

00:21:03.730 --> 00:21:06.230
million in resources difference right there.

00:21:06.369 --> 00:21:09.710
Right. Should we go into it? We should, yeah,

00:21:09.710 --> 00:21:11.970
because this is a great example, and there's

00:21:11.970 --> 00:21:15.269
numerous examples in both budgets of kind of

00:21:15.269 --> 00:21:18.329
how those transfers work or don't work. And then

00:21:18.329 --> 00:21:20.190
the other piece, of course, that we need to talk

00:21:20.190 --> 00:21:23.210
about is backfilling, which is kind of like transfer,

00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:30.650
but a little different. So the house is primarily

00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:36.509
made up of two items, and one dwarfs the other

00:21:36.509 --> 00:21:40.849
one. significantly and they transfer 880 million

00:21:40.849 --> 00:21:43.390
dollars out of the budget stabilization account

00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:45.730
which had historically colloquially been referred

00:21:45.730 --> 00:21:48.950
to as the rainy day account right so 880 and

00:21:48.950 --> 00:21:52.809
then they transfer 75 million out of the public

00:21:52.809 --> 00:21:56.349
works assistance account that's right and then

00:21:56.349 --> 00:22:00.910
um then they have 20 other they have like they

00:22:00.910 --> 00:22:04.480
have like 20 some other transfers that are all

00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:06.900
in like the $5 million, the $7 million, and things

00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:10.319
like that. So it totals almost $2 ,000 in transfers.

00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:12.539
But the ones that are really, I think, for the

00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:14.240
purposes of this conversation, worth looking

00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.599
at are $880 out of the budget stabilization account,

00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:21.539
$700. Well, don't forget about the $395 million

00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:23.859
from capital gains tax distributions as well.

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:26.900
Both budgets do have both of those in as new

00:22:26.900 --> 00:22:29.240
revenue sources. But I guess they're not really

00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:30.559
transfers in, and that's what you're focusing

00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.490
on right now. correct their their new revenue

00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:36.670
and i was focusing on transfers but but it's

00:22:36.670 --> 00:22:39.680
a really good point to To mention. That was the

00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.640
one kind of of those additional revenue pieces,

00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:44.480
whether it's a transfer of revenue. That was

00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:46.240
the kind of one that was really consistent between

00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.980
both the House and the Senate. Yes. That and

00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:51.640
data centers. Yeah. The repeal of. Which was

00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.980
like, what, 63 million, 64 million, something

00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:56.920
like that. Yeah. It's in the 50 to 60 million

00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.039
dollar range, depending on the budget, this biennium.

00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:01.000
And then it's, you know, and then it's in the

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.019
double that number next biennium. So 130 million

00:23:05.019 --> 00:23:07.299
in the ensuing biennium. So let's. talk about

00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:09.779
that budget stabilization account yes first because

00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:12.240
that's a really big that's a really big transfer

00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.759
in right yes and so just to just for level setting

00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:21.079
it was it was 880 in the house and it's 750 in

00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.599
the senate so then the big difference is the

00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.660
senate takes a lot more out of the public works

00:23:26.660 --> 00:23:28.900
assistance account right from a transfer standpoint

00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:33.859
how much well they take 375 they do so that's

00:23:33.859 --> 00:23:36.680
300 million more than the house does That's a

00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.839
big number. Yeah, there's some details. Now,

00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:40.660
that's on top of, how much did they take last

00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:45.859
year? Do you remember? Like $260 million? Wasn't

00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:48.359
that the number? Paul, you might have it in your

00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:49.799
notes. That's a number I didn't write in the

00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:53.099
notes. But it was a significant amount of money

00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:54.920
that was taken out of the Public Works Assistance

00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.400
account. Yeah, I do actually have it in our notes

00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:03.559
right here. Oh, great. It was $365 million. $265,

00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:07.789
well. Let's see. No, it was $265 million from

00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:10.289
the state public works account. But let's see.

00:24:11.950 --> 00:24:15.750
Oh, boy. I'm trying to remember my notes here.

00:24:16.430 --> 00:24:19.049
I think it was right around $265 million. It

00:24:19.049 --> 00:24:22.009
was a big number. Okay. I'll trust you on that

00:24:22.009 --> 00:24:24.299
one. Yeah. Even though you can tell my voice

00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:27.519
I don't entirely trust you. No, that's pretty

00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.740
close. That's pretty close. Because when you

00:24:30.740 --> 00:24:33.559
add the $375 million to it on the house side,

00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:37.119
the total transfer out for the two years, first

00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.920
year and second year, is over $600 million. So

00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:42.200
that actually makes sense. The $265 plus the

00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.799
$375 would be over $600 million. And so what

00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:53.460
has historically been so attractive? to the legislature

00:24:53.460 --> 00:25:00.319
broadly with this is it is a cash, it is a combination

00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.420
of paybacks, you know, like loan repayments,

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.319
but also it has cash coming into it, right? It's

00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.109
not necessarily... general obligation bonds or

00:25:11.109 --> 00:25:14.829
hasn't been. Right. And we've had several podcasts

00:25:14.829 --> 00:25:17.670
where we've talked about the Public Works Assistance

00:25:17.670 --> 00:25:19.869
Account and kind of went into some more detail.

00:25:20.069 --> 00:25:22.809
I'm actually hoping to get the director of the

00:25:22.809 --> 00:25:26.309
Public Works Board here to go into even greater

00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:28.529
detail about kind of the whole history of the

00:25:28.529 --> 00:25:31.089
program and how it was developed in Washington

00:25:31.089 --> 00:25:33.910
State and why it's such a unique and valuable

00:25:33.910 --> 00:25:37.839
program. But we have done kind of that deeper

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.359
dive just into what it means and why is it there

00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.220
and why it's such an attractive place for them

00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.619
to essentially transfer money from whenever they

00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:50.940
have a budget deficit problem. While we're here.

00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:53.559
Should we go into the differences in the approach

00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:55.859
on how they handle a backfill or no backfill?

00:25:55.940 --> 00:25:58.339
Well, we should because that's an important piece

00:25:58.339 --> 00:26:00.400
here when you're talking about the difference

00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:02.319
between the House and the Senate. Yeah. Right?

00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:04.799
The House has got that $75 million transfer out,

00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.359
and that's it. Yep. Just reaches in, grabs $75

00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.259
million. So imagine if there's a cookie jar on

00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:13.759
the counter, you're opening the lid, and you're

00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.380
taking out $75 million worth of cookies, stuffing

00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:18.900
it in your pocket, and walking away to spend

00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.230
it. That's it. Or pudding. But I wouldn't put

00:26:22.230 --> 00:26:24.069
pudding in my pocket. Don't put pudding in your

00:26:24.069 --> 00:26:26.910
pocket. Yeah. I wouldn't put cookies in my pocket

00:26:26.910 --> 00:26:30.130
either. I mean, seriously. They're all crumbly,

00:26:30.150 --> 00:26:33.349
mixed up. I mean, not to suggest that your mother's

00:26:33.349 --> 00:26:35.230
cookies are dry. I think there's an important

00:26:35.230 --> 00:26:37.069
life lesson here, though. If you had to choose

00:26:37.069 --> 00:26:38.950
if you were going to put cookies in your pocket

00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:42.789
or pudding in your pocket, choose cookies. Sure.

00:26:42.930 --> 00:26:46.029
That's a good life lesson. Sure. Okay. But the

00:26:46.029 --> 00:26:49.250
way the Senate does it. Is they're reaching in

00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:53.549
and they're taking $375 million worth of cookies

00:26:53.549 --> 00:26:58.009
out. Yes. But they're putting $300 million in

00:26:58.009 --> 00:27:02.009
different cookies back in. $340? Something like

00:27:02.009 --> 00:27:04.750
that. Yeah. They're not completely replacing

00:27:04.750 --> 00:27:10.039
it, but they're coming. They're ultimately. There's

00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.119
ultimately more money in the public works account

00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.440
for this biennium in the Senate proposal. Right.

00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.440
Yes. But it's in the form of new debt. Yeah.

00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:20.480
Right. And remember, we talked about this last

00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:24.799
year. What are they? Why? I'm still a little

00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:30.220
puzzled by the fact that they would take. Undesignated

00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:33.079
revenue. Right. That's just money. Right. Like

00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:34.900
almost like a fund balance, like a bank account.

00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:36.880
Right. That's sitting there. They would take

00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.339
that. and transfer it into the general fund.

00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.380
I get that. That's an interesting piece. But

00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:45.000
why then replace debt, replace it with debt?

00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:50.980
I just, that's very strange to me. It's almost

00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:55.059
like I started this podcast intentionally by

00:27:55.059 --> 00:27:57.940
saying they're in a milieu of where they are

00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:02.220
cash poor, but debt rich. Right, but we're low,

00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:05.519
but the... I know. But the, but the, but the,

00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:09.710
but the, but the. They're borrowing money to

00:28:09.710 --> 00:28:12.809
loan money. And they're borrowing money at a

00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:15.289
higher rate. Yes, that's the kicker. Then they

00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:17.410
can loan it, right? Because the public works

00:28:17.410 --> 00:28:22.450
assistance account is artificially lower. cost

00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:24.890
money the rates are one to two percent generally

00:28:24.890 --> 00:28:27.230
yes and because it's because it's self -funded

00:28:27.230 --> 00:28:29.410
it's our money yeah we're not getting investors

00:28:29.410 --> 00:28:31.670
they're not outside folks trying to make money

00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:33.450
and it's cash coming in yeah it's cash coming

00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:37.549
in right it's a it's a self kind of um uh fulfilling

00:28:37.549 --> 00:28:40.369
prophecy in some regards in that it continues

00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:42.509
to regenerate and regenerate because we loan

00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:45.089
money out they make the payments the money comes

00:28:45.089 --> 00:28:46.970
back in we loan the money out it's like an old

00:28:46.970 --> 00:28:49.789
savings and loan a little bit right it's all

00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:53.250
and it's always been targeted for for local government

00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:56.130
entities that don't have the lending power of,

00:28:56.170 --> 00:28:59.630
say, one of our larger counties or something

00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:01.609
like that. Think of like, it's a wonderful life,

00:29:01.730 --> 00:29:05.849
right? The whole, the whole, what was their name?

00:29:06.210 --> 00:29:09.970
Jimmy Stewart. Yeah. I'm not going to be your

00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:12.369
lifeline on this one. It's an old, sad, depressing

00:29:12.369 --> 00:29:15.869
movie. Oh, it's a classic. But anyways. I mean,

00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:18.569
look, I'm anti diehard being a Christmas movie.

00:29:18.869 --> 00:29:22.190
What I will say is that it might be a Christmas

00:29:22.190 --> 00:29:24.490
tradition for your family, but it's not a Christmas

00:29:24.490 --> 00:29:26.349
movie. It's nothing to do. Okay. We're not going

00:29:26.349 --> 00:29:28.079
to get off on that. but I'm telling you right

00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.940
now Die Hard is a Christmas movie absolutely

00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:33.660
Christmas tradition I'll accept but there's nothing

00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:36.259
about and so is the spirit of Christmas there's

00:29:36.259 --> 00:29:41.039
no magic in it so is the message is It's a wonderful

00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:42.819
life. A bunch of people kill everybody? It's

00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:45.940
a Wonderful Life is also a Christmas movie. I

00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:49.140
question your morality, my friend. It wasn't

00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:52.519
the savings alone, but basically the institution

00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:54.220
existed. All right, focus, Brian. Focus, Brian.

00:29:54.259 --> 00:29:56.099
The institution existed. Stop talking, Paul.

00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.819
Let's just go back. Bringing money, lend it out

00:29:58.819 --> 00:30:01.359
to people to build homes, to buy homes, right?

00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.660
That was the whole purpose. And you would get

00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:06.500
a small rate of return on that. Same thing with

00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:09.200
the Public Works Assistance Account. And it's

00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.099
our money, right? And it was the community's

00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:13.779
money in that case. Here it's our money, and

00:30:13.779 --> 00:30:16.579
we're loaning that out to ourselves, to our friends,

00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:18.519
you know, cities, counties. They're doing projects.

00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.980
They're paying it back. Very low, very low rate

00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:25.819
of default, right? Almost unheard of low rate

00:30:25.819 --> 00:30:28.000
of default, but also a low rate of return, which

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.059
makes it very attractive for the communities

00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:33.160
because it's low -cost capital. Here we have

00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:34.839
the state saying, okay, we're going to take that

00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:36.880
money, but we're going to replace it. But we're

00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:37.930
going to borrow money at a high rate. higher

00:30:37.930 --> 00:30:40.009
rate in order to do that so that we can loan

00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:42.390
it out to you guys so you still have your program

00:30:42.390 --> 00:30:44.569
but it's actually at a net loss to the state

00:30:44.569 --> 00:30:48.670
it's a weird thing to do i the the term i used

00:30:48.670 --> 00:30:50.970
in last year's which is i don't think it's accurate

00:30:50.970 --> 00:30:54.269
but it i said reverse arbitrage right where you're

00:30:54.269 --> 00:30:56.730
like which isn't which isn't accurate but it

00:30:56.730 --> 00:30:59.410
gets at that you're that you're loaning money

00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:03.069
out at a loss yeah right and this is where that

00:31:03.069 --> 00:31:06.619
like one time is really important because it's

00:31:06.619 --> 00:31:09.180
been indicated that this is a transaction for

00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:12.079
this biennium and it kind of puts us i don't

00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:14.180
know if you feel this way it's it we're in a

00:31:14.180 --> 00:31:18.400
little bit of a pickle because you've got uh

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.539
one proposal that takes 75 million dollars out

00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:26.099
yeah just trips it out and one proposal that

00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:29.660
has a mechanism that that i think um from from

00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:32.400
our point of view does not feel sustainable no

00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:38.349
not by any means But in the short run is a better

00:31:38.349 --> 00:31:45.109
level of funding. Yeah. And so you're kind of

00:31:45.109 --> 00:31:49.309
like, well, it doesn't make sense to us. It doesn't

00:31:49.309 --> 00:31:52.670
seem like good dollars and cents, but it comes

00:31:52.670 --> 00:31:56.190
closer to keeping us whole. Right. So it is a

00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:58.210
little bit of a. I used the word pickle. It's

00:31:58.210 --> 00:32:00.309
a little bit of a conundrum of how. It's a quandary

00:32:00.309 --> 00:32:02.410
for sure. Oh, that's a much better word. Ladies

00:32:02.410 --> 00:32:04.630
and gentlemen, 25 cents in the SAT jar. What

00:32:04.630 --> 00:32:09.730
a paradox. So it's a little bit difficult to

00:32:09.730 --> 00:32:12.450
like ferret through what makes sense. Yeah, I

00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:14.549
don't know how to feel about it. Right? I mean,

00:32:14.569 --> 00:32:17.430
as a citizen of the state, I'm like. wait a minute,

00:32:17.609 --> 00:32:20.390
you know, this is my money that you're dealing

00:32:20.390 --> 00:32:22.849
with. But as, you know, a representative of counties,

00:32:23.049 --> 00:32:24.549
I'm like, okay, well, we'll take that deal because

00:32:24.549 --> 00:32:27.890
it keeps us, you know, more whole with more resources.

00:32:28.569 --> 00:32:31.329
But I don't feel good about it. It's a strange,

00:32:31.769 --> 00:32:34.410
it's, yeah. So I think, so that's what's going

00:32:34.410 --> 00:32:36.190
on with transfers. I think we've talked about

00:32:36.190 --> 00:32:38.390
that a lot. Yeah. Well, I do want to mention.

00:32:38.490 --> 00:32:42.160
Do we want to talk about? What? You're giving

00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:45.599
me the eyebrow. I am. People can't see the eyebrow,

00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:47.640
but you're definitely giving me the eyebrow.

00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:49.559
Are you ready to talk about the Climate Commitment

00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.000
Act yet? Yeah, I want to, but I want to point

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.220
out one more thing. Okay, great. So another transfer

00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:55.500
that's really important that I don't know if

00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:58.359
you caught this, but I did catch it, that $880

00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:01.140
million transfer on the House side that comes

00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:03.099
out of the budget stabilization account, which

00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:06.279
we never really told people what that was. Give

00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:08.079
them a few sentences on what the budget stabilization

00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:09.940
account is. Oh, I think I said I referred to

00:33:09.940 --> 00:33:11.319
it as a rainy day account. Right, it used to

00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:14.119
be known as a rainy day account. But there...

00:33:17.130 --> 00:33:19.450
When the economy was going really well, sales

00:33:19.450 --> 00:33:21.750
tax was generating a lot of excess revenue, and

00:33:21.750 --> 00:33:24.890
there was a piece of legislation that put into

00:33:24.890 --> 00:33:28.089
place that basically said as money comes in at

00:33:28.089 --> 00:33:31.329
a certain rate, some of it's going to spill over

00:33:31.329 --> 00:33:33.529
into this account that's outside of the general

00:33:33.529 --> 00:33:38.069
fund that is going to be used and not spent and

00:33:38.069 --> 00:33:42.769
used when the economy is in a rainy day. Right.

00:33:42.829 --> 00:33:45.750
Okay. So different from reserves. It's different

00:33:45.750 --> 00:33:52.309
from reserves. And when it was originally construed,

00:33:52.329 --> 00:33:56.190
it needed, I think it was a 60 % threshold, much

00:33:56.190 --> 00:33:59.130
like a bond, to take money out of it. However,

00:34:00.589 --> 00:34:05.250
a couple years ago, some of these very creative

00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:09.570
staff asked the question, okay, we know we need

00:34:09.570 --> 00:34:14.090
a bipartisan vote to take money out of it. What

00:34:14.090 --> 00:34:18.150
if we just don't put the money in it? And so

00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:23.289
they were able to - Gotta love staff. But so

00:34:23.289 --> 00:34:26.769
when we're doing some go -go years and there

00:34:26.769 --> 00:34:29.650
was money that was set aside that's there that

00:34:29.650 --> 00:34:35.489
is outside of the kind of fungible cash general

00:34:35.489 --> 00:34:38.090
fund state, which is county current expense,

00:34:38.369 --> 00:34:41.630
and in another account that has to have some

00:34:41.630 --> 00:34:44.010
sort of certain financial triggers in order for

00:34:44.010 --> 00:34:48.010
you to - Use it. Theoretically. Yeah. But at

00:34:48.010 --> 00:34:50.030
this point, I mean, the majority party's got

00:34:50.030 --> 00:34:52.530
the tools and levers. Yeah, pretty strong majority.

00:34:52.690 --> 00:34:53.849
So they're going to get what they want in that

00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:57.590
regard. The other one I wanted to mention or

00:34:57.590 --> 00:34:59.349
the one transfer out of there that I wanted to

00:34:59.349 --> 00:35:02.030
mention was on the House side. That's at 880

00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:03.809
million. And I don't know if you caught this,

00:35:03.889 --> 00:35:06.699
but in the four year. Oh, they transfer money

00:35:06.699 --> 00:35:08.820
back in. They do. Yeah. And where does it come

00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:12.380
from? Left one. Oh, yes. Yeah. So this is something

00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:14.300
that's really interesting that we've been talking

00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:15.940
about with our members recently. I don't know

00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:17.719
that we've ever brought it up on the podcast,

00:35:18.099 --> 00:35:21.579
but I broke my own rule. I can't say left without

00:35:21.579 --> 00:35:23.500
saying what it is. And that's the law enforcement

00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.699
officers and firefighters. And when I say left

00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:31.699
one, that's the first pension system. Yeah. That

00:35:31.699 --> 00:35:33.420
was created for him. We should have looked this

00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:38.409
up, but, but it, but it. It was like late 1970s

00:35:38.409 --> 00:35:42.809
was when Left 1 closed. Yeah, it closed sometime

00:35:42.809 --> 00:35:45.750
in the late 1970s. They replaced it with Left

00:35:45.750 --> 00:35:47.670
2, and now there's Left 3, just like there's

00:35:47.670 --> 00:35:50.489
PERS and TERS 1, right? TERS 2, TERS 3. Teachers.

00:35:51.230 --> 00:35:54.090
They stopped making contributions in 2000. Yeah.

00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:57.800
because the last one was essentially overfunded.

00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:59.860
There's a surplus. Yeah. And there's a surplus

00:35:59.860 --> 00:36:02.199
currently. The official term is there's a dog

00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:05.219
choking wad of money in there. That's not an

00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:08.380
official term. Yes, it is. That is a legal certified

00:36:08.380 --> 00:36:11.480
accounting, public accounting term. But there's

00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:15.489
a lot of money in there. four billion dollars

00:36:15.489 --> 00:36:17.289
i can't remember how much the amount is it's

00:36:17.289 --> 00:36:21.190
it's an enormous amount of of i'm leaving with

00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:24.530
something paul it was it was an underfunded obligation

00:36:24.530 --> 00:36:28.829
for many years and uh the the local governments

00:36:28.829 --> 00:36:30.730
were putting money in sure at the rate of about

00:36:30.730 --> 00:36:34.829
12 percent uh the employees themselves were also

00:36:34.829 --> 00:36:37.090
making a contribution a smaller contribution

00:36:37.090 --> 00:36:39.570
uh the state was making a contribution but it

00:36:39.570 --> 00:36:42.989
was still an unfunded obligation and so in good

00:36:42.989 --> 00:36:45.989
years the state made some significant contributions,

00:36:46.230 --> 00:36:49.789
plus they've seen enormous gains through investments.

00:36:49.909 --> 00:36:52.610
Yeah, yeah. About 70 % of the benefits from Left

00:36:52.610 --> 00:36:55.130
1 that have been paid out to date have been paid

00:36:55.130 --> 00:36:58.610
out from just the benefits earnings themselves.

00:36:59.010 --> 00:37:03.449
So it's been a very good account from that point

00:37:03.449 --> 00:37:06.050
of view. Right now - Yeah, we've got a great

00:37:06.050 --> 00:37:08.090
state actuary. Yeah. State investment board.

00:37:08.190 --> 00:37:10.190
Not actuary, sorry, state investment board. They're

00:37:10.190 --> 00:37:11.670
doing a great job. Yeah, they do a great job.

00:37:11.730 --> 00:37:15.570
And right now, it's got way more assets than

00:37:15.570 --> 00:37:17.670
it needs to meet its obligations. So Paul and

00:37:17.670 --> 00:37:20.090
I didn't rehearse this, so this might go poorly.

00:37:20.630 --> 00:37:22.710
Because I have a specific answer I want him to

00:37:22.710 --> 00:37:27.829
give me. Okay. Paul, what contractual right from

00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:31.110
a pension system is a employee or former employee

00:37:31.110 --> 00:37:35.880
guaranteed? What, contractual right? So I knew

00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.940
I shouldn't have done this. I mean, they are

00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:41.239
entitled. They're entitled to what? They're entitled

00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:44.409
to the benefits that they were. That they basically

00:37:44.409 --> 00:37:46.389
signed up for. Yep, correct. Right? And there

00:37:46.389 --> 00:37:49.590
was this Ortblat, and I know it's a funny name,

00:37:49.670 --> 00:37:52.489
but that's like one of the landstone cases in

00:37:52.489 --> 00:37:55.710
this. But basically... There's a way to change

00:37:55.710 --> 00:37:57.690
those benefits in the negative, but it's very

00:37:57.690 --> 00:38:01.030
hard to do. Sure. But in most cases, and that

00:38:01.030 --> 00:38:02.710
court case that you're mentioning was pretty

00:38:02.710 --> 00:38:05.150
clear, you have an obligation. As a state, you

00:38:05.150 --> 00:38:06.969
have an obligation. You made a deal, essentially,

00:38:07.110 --> 00:38:09.309
a contract. Yes. And you have to live up to it.

00:38:09.650 --> 00:38:15.260
So... There is a contract that you as an employer

00:38:15.260 --> 00:38:17.860
enter with your employee that says you are entitled

00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:21.440
to this benefit. Right. No matter what. No matter

00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:25.039
what. And I have to put money in to fund it.

00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:27.599
Right. And the federal government actually oversees

00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:30.639
it. Even the state pension programs, the federal

00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:33.179
government oversees. And conversely, other funds

00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:36.940
are underfunded. That's right. Okay. So this

00:38:36.940 --> 00:38:39.039
gets to kind of the, and the reason why I'm doing

00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:42.210
this, I'm just kind of leading this, right? Well,

00:38:42.250 --> 00:38:44.929
we've had an underfunded obligation in PERS,

00:38:45.090 --> 00:38:49.460
both the PERS 1 and the PERS 2. programs for

00:38:49.460 --> 00:38:51.380
many years. In fact, last year was the first

00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:53.360
year we didn't have to make extra contributions

00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.599
to try to make up for that fund deficit. Yeah,

00:38:57.619 --> 00:39:01.320
we changed the rate every time and we had rate

00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.420
smoothing when we knew we had to make a huge

00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:05.619
jump, but we didn't want to make the jump all

00:39:05.619 --> 00:39:07.440
at one time. But I think for the next four to

00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.440
six years, it's projected we don't have to do

00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:11.619
anything at all. And there's been a lot of talk

00:39:11.619 --> 00:39:14.760
about this left one surplus and what to do with

00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.750
it. There's been a lot of talk about whose money

00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:18.449
it is. Well, there's been a lot of talk. And

00:39:18.449 --> 00:39:20.630
that's why I brought up like what it is, because

00:39:20.630 --> 00:39:24.250
when there's not enough money, I guarantee you

00:39:24.250 --> 00:39:26.510
the conversation, it's our job to fill it. Yeah.

00:39:26.590 --> 00:39:29.170
But when there's too much, who gets the excess,

00:39:29.389 --> 00:39:31.789
right? And of course, you know, you can imagine

00:39:31.789 --> 00:39:34.110
the retired law enforcement and firefighters.

00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:37.920
have been had been angling for greater benefits

00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.880
right saying that's our money yeah left two folks

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.559
have been saying wait a minute if there's too

00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.260
much in that one put it in ours right um that

00:39:45.260 --> 00:39:47.159
that's been a conversation in the past the same

00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:51.199
has been for pers and ters uh and and the underfunded

00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:53.900
obligation there the state's been like well we're

00:39:53.900 --> 00:39:56.139
we're overfunded here we're underfunded here

00:39:56.139 --> 00:39:58.880
let's just move this money over right and that's

00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:00.659
been controversial because as you can imagine

00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:02.760
people you know when there's a giant pile of

00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.070
money on the table people tend to argue over

00:40:05.070 --> 00:40:06.949
it. Sure. So it looks like they finally have

00:40:06.949 --> 00:40:10.530
a plan, though. So for cultural reference, I

00:40:10.530 --> 00:40:13.570
was a big fan of The Simpsons growing up. I watched

00:40:13.570 --> 00:40:15.690
until, I don't know, season 9 or 10, but there

00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:17.550
was an episode that I loved called The Hellfish

00:40:17.550 --> 00:40:21.329
Bonanza, which was the older generation, Montgomery

00:40:21.329 --> 00:40:23.969
Burns, Abe Simpson. I loved Montgomery Burns.

00:40:24.090 --> 00:40:27.849
He was so great. So in the narrative canon of

00:40:27.849 --> 00:40:29.809
The Simpsons, they served in World War II, and

00:40:29.809 --> 00:40:32.409
they were part of the invasion of... Normandy?

00:40:33.150 --> 00:40:37.690
Well, of Europe, largely. And they looted Germany.

00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:40.389
And they brought back all of this art and all

00:40:40.389 --> 00:40:43.409
this treasure. Oh, no. That's terrible. And the

00:40:43.409 --> 00:40:46.190
Hellfish Bonanza was the last one to live was

00:40:46.190 --> 00:40:48.889
going to get all the money. Oh, geez. And I think

00:40:48.889 --> 00:40:51.550
the parallel I'm drawing here is kind of how

00:40:51.550 --> 00:40:54.389
this is. Yeah. Yeah. That someone thought they

00:40:54.389 --> 00:40:56.469
were going to get a check for $3 billion. Yeah,

00:40:56.469 --> 00:40:58.789
maybe. Well, and the interesting kicker here

00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:02.039
is. local governments, counties, and cities are

00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:05.139
still on the hook. For what? For left one retiree

00:41:05.139 --> 00:41:07.460
benefits related to their medical costs. Yes,

00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:10.480
and specifically long -term care. Yeah, and we

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.920
pay for that. Which is $150 ,000 a year. And

00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:14.340
we pay for it right out of our general fund.

00:41:14.500 --> 00:41:16.880
Yeah. We do not have investments. We don't have

00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.559
a fund somewhere set aside. This literally...

00:41:19.789 --> 00:41:22.070
These are onesies, twosies that are decided by

00:41:22.070 --> 00:41:25.849
a board, a left board in every single county

00:41:25.849 --> 00:41:29.590
made up of left retirees, spouses, that sort

00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:32.730
of thing, who actually gets these claims and

00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:35.869
makes decisions on whether or not they're reimbursable.

00:41:35.969 --> 00:41:37.809
And then the county is obligated to essentially

00:41:37.809 --> 00:41:39.750
write a check right then and there to take care

00:41:39.750 --> 00:41:41.469
of that. And it doesn't matter what the cost

00:41:41.469 --> 00:41:45.159
is. And so the obligation ongoing. is for the

00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:48.900
rest of their lives. And there is a significant

00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:51.400
number of these retirees still out there. So

00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.340
as you can imagine, cities and counties have

00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:56.800
been watching really closely to see, okay, how

00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:59.480
are these conversations going? What is the plan,

00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:01.460
et cetera, et cetera? So finally, we have a bill

00:42:01.460 --> 00:42:05.159
this year. Yes. 2034? Yeah, Ormsby Bill. It's

00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:09.340
going to be heard tomorrow in committee in the

00:42:09.340 --> 00:42:14.360
Senate. And it proposes to collapse Left 1. Eliminate

00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:17.519
the program, rebuild it under a new left one,

00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:20.760
guaranteeing the same benefits to the retirees,

00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:26.239
no new contributions, and fund it at 110 % of

00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:30.460
its projected obligation. Okay, what does that

00:42:30.460 --> 00:42:32.079
mean for the money that's in there? Well, that

00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:34.599
means about there's a lot of money. There's billions.

00:42:35.630 --> 00:42:37.949
That is available then for other purposes. And

00:42:37.949 --> 00:42:41.010
what they propose to do is put $565 million into

00:42:41.010 --> 00:42:44.090
the Climate Commitment Act to backfill some funds

00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:46.070
that they're using for other purposes. Working

00:42:46.070 --> 00:42:48.750
families tax credit. Perhaps. $300 million. And

00:42:48.750 --> 00:42:50.750
a couple other things. And then they want to

00:42:50.750 --> 00:42:53.429
put the rest into the pension stabilization account

00:42:53.429 --> 00:42:57.349
with a note that tells the state treasurer that

00:42:57.349 --> 00:43:00.030
the state treasurer has the freedom to transfer

00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:02.230
that money from the pension stabilization account

00:43:02.230 --> 00:43:09.730
to the state general fund. Which they do in 2029

00:43:09.730 --> 00:43:13.750
to backfill the $880 million that they take out

00:43:13.750 --> 00:43:17.630
of the budget stabilization account on the House

00:43:17.630 --> 00:43:20.849
side. It's wild. Yeah. So where do local governments

00:43:20.849 --> 00:43:23.510
fit in on all this? Well, we're actually working

00:43:23.510 --> 00:43:26.309
behind the scenes to try to make sure that the

00:43:26.309 --> 00:43:30.170
percentage that could be attributable to our

00:43:30.170 --> 00:43:33.510
members' contributions. Yeah. also provides some

00:43:33.510 --> 00:43:35.369
sort of local benefit. And we're working that

00:43:35.369 --> 00:43:37.789
out. I had a really good conversation today with

00:43:37.789 --> 00:43:40.670
Joe Fitzgibbon, who's the majority house leader,

00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:44.409
the majority leader in the house. And I think

00:43:44.409 --> 00:43:47.190
we're going to get a marker in 2034 that actually

00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:51.050
talks about. I think we have a fair legal right

00:43:51.050 --> 00:43:54.500
to say. That is our money. I think so, too. But

00:43:54.500 --> 00:43:58.880
of the billions that are there, the county share

00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.739
is probably only about $100 million. Yeah. It's

00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:06.460
a lot smaller than you'd think. I mean, the deal

00:44:06.460 --> 00:44:10.860
that was cut was that we would contribute less

00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:15.239
to the employee's pension at the time. Right.

00:44:17.019 --> 00:44:19.219
But we were going to pick up medical on the back

00:44:19.219 --> 00:44:23.900
end. Right. This is akin to when Whitman and

00:44:23.900 --> 00:44:25.739
Walla Walla were fighting over the prison versus

00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:28.780
the institution. And at the time, everyone wanted

00:44:28.780 --> 00:44:31.139
the prison. Bad deal. Right? Everyone wanted

00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:33.019
the prison. Right. Sorry, Walla Walla. Love you.

00:44:35.059 --> 00:44:40.579
And we thought it was the good deal. And we had

00:44:40.579 --> 00:44:44.880
no idea in the late 60s, whatever, to realize

00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.349
how much. the medical industrial complex would

00:44:48.349 --> 00:44:51.750
grow and how expensive it would be. Well, and

00:44:51.750 --> 00:44:54.889
the truth is, because of the advances in modern

00:44:54.889 --> 00:44:58.170
medicine, right, and in just longevity and health

00:44:58.170 --> 00:45:00.510
and all that good stuff that we invest in, right,

00:45:00.550 --> 00:45:04.409
that we're reaping benefits from, the long -term

00:45:04.409 --> 00:45:07.349
obligation has been much higher than we thought

00:45:07.349 --> 00:45:09.110
that it was going to be. That's just the reality.

00:45:09.550 --> 00:45:13.250
And one of the things that we had a good conversation

00:45:13.250 --> 00:45:17.050
with Representative Fitzgibbon about, And I know

00:45:17.050 --> 00:45:18.650
the cities have had this discussion with him

00:45:18.650 --> 00:45:21.650
as well is as part of this whole collapsing of

00:45:21.650 --> 00:45:24.570
left one and the recreation of the program and

00:45:24.570 --> 00:45:27.030
the movement of the excess revenue, right? The

00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:30.570
surplus into different parts over in the state

00:45:30.570 --> 00:45:35.070
funds is the state taking on the obligation,

00:45:35.369 --> 00:45:39.079
the long -term obligation. for providing medical

00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:41.500
into the future. That would actually more than

00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:43.880
compensate us for the $100 million share that

00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.320
we have existing in that fund. And so we're working

00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:50.239
to try to get that into 2034. Obviously, that's

00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:52.099
a bit of a side road we just took there, but

00:45:52.099 --> 00:45:54.280
I think it's a really important piece to kind

00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:57.380
of think about and talk about when we're looking

00:45:57.380 --> 00:45:59.460
at all the intricacies that are in this budget.

00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:03.860
It would be easily the single biggest positive

00:46:03.860 --> 00:46:08.559
outcome. In this budget. And in budgets for years.

00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.559
For sure. Quite frankly. Yeah. And it's just

00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:13.139
a nuanced thing that most people don't think

00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:16.139
about. But when you look at the actual numbers

00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:18.880
and how it comes out on the books and on the

00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:20.960
bottom line for everybody, it's a big deal. Yeah.

00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:24.320
I know we're running a little long. So we should

00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:27.820
probably talk about now what I've been wanting

00:46:27.820 --> 00:46:30.500
to talk about. Let's do it. The Climate Commitment

00:46:30.500 --> 00:46:34.079
Act triple bank shot. Yeah, see, I know. Triple

00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:36.900
bank shot. When we were preparing for this, I

00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:39.539
was looking at these budgets, and I'm looking

00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:41.139
at them, and I'm going, there's something fishy

00:46:41.139 --> 00:46:43.400
going on here with Climate Commitment Act dollars,

00:46:43.539 --> 00:46:47.960
specifically natural climate solutions. Now,

00:46:48.019 --> 00:46:50.320
there's probably others involved, too, but that's

00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.300
always the ones that I look at as the NCS funding

00:46:52.300 --> 00:46:56.139
component of the CCA, Climate Commitment Act.

00:46:57.340 --> 00:47:00.820
I see some transfers. I see some crossing out

00:47:00.820 --> 00:47:03.019
of existing funding and replacement with NCS

00:47:03.019 --> 00:47:05.800
dollars. I see some money moving from one budget

00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:09.679
to the other. And I can't understand it, but

00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:12.440
I knew you would. Oh, I mean, when we talk about

00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:16.719
art. and craft yeah of like this is it was painting

00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:18.519
a picture but i couldn't see the picture you

00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:20.800
know those pictures that are like all those graphical

00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:22.920
dots and if you have to stand back far enough

00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.599
you gotta stand like way back here uh and stare

00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:27.440
at her for a while like one spot before you can

00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:29.519
actually see it so this is that's what i feel

00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.000
like this is like this is the heat check of all

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.239
heat checks this is the like i've hit i know

00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:36.800
it's there i just can't see this is like i'm

00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:40.280
at paul i'm at the east side club I'm two beers

00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:42.059
in. I don't actually drink people. I'm two beers

00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:44.719
in. I've got like gimme shelter on the jukebox,

00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:47.420
and I am calling my shot, and I'm going to like

00:47:47.420 --> 00:47:51.059
bank the eight ball in off of three banks. All

00:47:51.059 --> 00:47:53.300
right. Get into it. Tell us about it. Climate

00:47:53.300 --> 00:47:55.559
Commitment Act, we know it ultimately is a declining

00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:57.460
revenue source, but it's actually a fairly robust

00:47:57.460 --> 00:47:59.239
revenue source right now. Really robust right

00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:00.579
now. Kind of use it for a lot of things. Yeah.

00:48:02.659 --> 00:48:07.460
And it's all about like how can you move the

00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:10.510
pieces around? to ultimately get yourself just

00:48:10.510 --> 00:48:14.489
a green cash dollar, right? It's almost like

00:48:14.489 --> 00:48:17.769
that game, that intelligence test. Now, let's

00:48:17.769 --> 00:48:20.309
clarify. When you say get myself a green cash

00:48:20.309 --> 00:48:21.849
dollar. General fund, current expense dollar.

00:48:21.849 --> 00:48:23.690
So you just mean a flexible dollar. You're not

00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:27.849
actually talking like a... organic, natural,

00:48:28.130 --> 00:48:30.909
you know, carbon free. I am not talking about

00:48:30.909 --> 00:48:33.110
cannabis revenue right now. I didn't mean that.

00:48:33.110 --> 00:48:38.510
He did. He did. I was talking about, I was talking

00:48:38.510 --> 00:48:46.420
about carbon emissions. No, no, no. We know what

00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:49.699
he thinks. All right, that's funny. You got me

00:48:49.699 --> 00:48:55.199
on that one. I meant environmentally friendly.

00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:57.219
A dollar that you can spend on whatever you want

00:48:57.219 --> 00:48:58.179
to spend on. Okay, you're talking just flexible

00:48:58.179 --> 00:49:01.619
money. Yeah. All right. That was a long way around.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:04.340
So Climate Commitment Act. Okay, I don't want

00:49:04.340 --> 00:49:06.320
to get stuck in caveats and stuff, but right

00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.699
now, relatively speaking, it's pretty robust,

00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:13.380
and it hasn't all been spent. So in the capital

00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:16.150
budget, both capital budgets, House and Senate.

00:49:16.309 --> 00:49:19.869
Both. They take Climate Commitment Act dollars

00:49:19.869 --> 00:49:25.329
and they backfill bonds at the Department of

00:49:25.329 --> 00:49:30.590
Natural Resource. And it's $240 million. They

00:49:30.590 --> 00:49:35.829
backfill bonds at DNR? So they go into DNR and

00:49:35.829 --> 00:49:40.010
they cross out $240 million in bonds at DNR.

00:49:40.409 --> 00:49:43.889
And they replace it with $240 million from the

00:49:43.889 --> 00:49:46.150
Climate Commitment Act. And now they take those

00:49:46.150 --> 00:49:49.170
bonds, these general obligation bonds, triple

00:49:49.170 --> 00:49:52.670
bank shot. That's the first bank shot. Now, bonds,

00:49:52.809 --> 00:49:55.710
this is debt. This is debt. This is money they

00:49:55.710 --> 00:49:57.590
borrowed. And it's capital budget. So this is

00:49:57.590 --> 00:49:59.670
capital budget money that they borrowed. So again,

00:49:59.710 --> 00:50:03.369
we're back to this idea of this debt capacity

00:50:03.369 --> 00:50:08.239
creating a backfill in an area. Okay. Okay, and

00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.260
I assume that's the 1168 funding that they're

00:50:11.260 --> 00:50:13.760
taking that from. That's the community resilience

00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:18.480
and fire suppression and... You've got me on

00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:20.059
that one. Yeah, I would assume that's what it

00:50:20.059 --> 00:50:25.940
is. Okay. So then they walk those general obligation

00:50:25.940 --> 00:50:28.260
bonds, and they take them into the higher ed,

00:50:28.260 --> 00:50:31.300
and then they cross out higher education bonds,

00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:38.639
240, and they replace them. I'm sorry. Yes. So

00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:41.099
they take natural resource bonds, and then they

00:50:41.099 --> 00:50:43.760
put them into higher ed bonds, and then they

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:46.460
take those higher ed bonds over to the operating

00:50:46.460 --> 00:50:48.639
side. Okay, wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:50:48.699 --> 00:50:52.059
Slow down. Sorry. Slow down. Sorry. Okay, they're

00:50:52.059 --> 00:50:57.960
taking triple. They're going into DNR. They already

00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.659
sold the bonds for whatever they were going to

00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:03.179
use, the capital budget, the capital money for

00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:06.769
DNR. They're scooping that up. Okay, that's that

00:51:06.769 --> 00:51:08.469
state building and construction money, right?

00:51:08.469 --> 00:51:09.809
They're replacing an assumption that they're

00:51:09.809 --> 00:51:11.710
spending bonds at DNR and they're going to spend

00:51:11.710 --> 00:51:14.030
climate. And they're putting climate NCS dollars

00:51:14.030 --> 00:51:15.469
in there. Because it's an allowable use. Yeah,

00:51:15.469 --> 00:51:17.510
sure. It's an allowable use. Absolutely. And

00:51:17.510 --> 00:51:24.170
now I got this free radical. Yep. So now I've

00:51:24.170 --> 00:51:27.090
got this bond money that has to be used for.

00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:31.260
capital project type stuff should be okay should

00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:33.380
be doesn't have to be i mean it's debt capacity

00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:36.400
yeah um i've i've replaced it with a different

00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.239
color money over here but it's an allowed use

00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:42.440
and now i'm i'm inserting it into higher ed yes

00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:45.719
and i'm inserting it into higher ed capital so

00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:49.000
we're talking projects at university of washington

00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:53.920
central washington university wsu eastern whatever

00:51:55.179 --> 00:51:57.219
Yes. Okay. We can keep naming more colleges.

00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.780
Well, I just wanted to. I mean, Evergreen? You're

00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:01.960
just going to let Evergreen out? Yeah, we can

00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:03.519
put Evergreen in there. I mean, I feel like by

00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.400
omitting, you know. Let's not omit anybody. Okay,

00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:10.340
let's hit the community colleges now. All 35

00:52:10.340 --> 00:52:12.400
community technical colleges or whatever it is.

00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:15.440
South Puget Sound, Centralia, Everett. So then

00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.679
we went into higher ed. So it goes into higher

00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:21.820
ed. So that DNR money, $240 million, is going

00:52:21.820 --> 00:52:27.880
into higher ed, replacing what? So higher ed

00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:31.400
money that was used for capital purposes. Isn't

00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:37.159
it the same money? Or is this money that came

00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:39.599
out of... Okay, because there are... Is this

00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:45.139
Trustland dollars? Because there's... No. I mean,

00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:46.780
higher ed is in the capital budget just like

00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:48.820
anybody else, right? Sure. Isn't it all the same

00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:54.280
capital budget money? No, it is... I don't know

00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:58.739
if I can answer that with the level of specificity

00:52:58.739 --> 00:53:00.800
that you're trying to get at. Okay. I'm just

00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:03.360
wondering what's the motivation. Why not just

00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:05.199
take it and do what you want with it rather than,

00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:08.159
for lack of a better term, launder it through

00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:10.760
higher ed? Higher ed. To then spend it on operating

00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:14.460
dollars and higher ed. Right. You don't know

00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:17.039
either. Okay. I don't know. But that's what they're

00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:18.840
doing. But that's what they're doing. Yeah. Why?

00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:23.579
There's got to be a reason. Probably a very good

00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:25.500
reason. It's a roundabout way to essentially

00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:30.940
get CCA dollars into the general fund. Yes. By

00:53:30.940 --> 00:53:36.739
supplanting... Bonds at one agency, but then...

00:53:36.739 --> 00:53:39.239
Yeah, debt limit, essentially, to dump that into

00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:41.880
operating. Which goes back to, like I said, it's

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:45.840
almost like... It's that whole, we have money

00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:48.539
on the credit card that we can use. Breaks the

00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:51.889
one -time... It breaks the cardinal rule. of

00:53:51.889 --> 00:53:55.230
fiscally conservative budgeting, which is only

00:53:55.230 --> 00:53:59.570
use one time dollars for one time expenses. Never

00:53:59.570 --> 00:54:03.730
use one time dollars to incur or support ongoing

00:54:03.730 --> 00:54:10.070
obligations. These are unique times, Paul. Tell

00:54:10.070 --> 00:54:12.670
it to the judge. I don't know. Why would there

00:54:12.670 --> 00:54:18.090
be a judge here? Okay. Okay. Okay. So what do

00:54:18.090 --> 00:54:19.769
you think the benefit is here? Just getting that

00:54:19.769 --> 00:54:22.460
extra $240 million into the, into the operating

00:54:22.460 --> 00:54:29.880
side? Yeah. Yeah. $240 million. I mean, this

00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:36.300
sounds stupid, right? Because I grew up in a

00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:39.079
very modest household. You might even say poor.

00:54:40.469 --> 00:54:44.210
$240 million was an unfathomable number to me.

00:54:44.349 --> 00:54:47.289
Yeah, but on an $80 billion base, it's nothing.

00:54:47.369 --> 00:54:49.269
It's budget dust. Which is the point I was going

00:54:49.269 --> 00:54:51.849
to make. This is going to sound stupid, but isn't

00:54:51.849 --> 00:54:54.769
$240 million kind of insignificant in an $80

00:54:54.769 --> 00:54:59.329
billion budget? Why go to all that work? Why

00:54:59.329 --> 00:55:03.030
go to all that effort? Well, I guess what I would

00:55:03.030 --> 00:55:08.579
say is twofold. One. Public work assistance account

00:55:08.579 --> 00:55:10.219
is pretty important to us. We're talking about

00:55:10.219 --> 00:55:12.719
losing $75 million and that being a huge hit.

00:55:13.460 --> 00:55:16.960
Yeah, but we're talking about $75 million for

00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:20.619
local government versus the state that eats $80

00:55:20.619 --> 00:55:28.940
billion. And I will go back to that. This budget,

00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:34.940
in many respects, is balanced by transfers this

00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:38.699
year. Or this biennium. And to the point, as

00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:41.760
we said, there are some large moving pieces,

00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:45.460
but then there's all these other moving pieces

00:55:45.460 --> 00:55:49.539
which amount to you and I going through the couch

00:55:49.539 --> 00:55:55.110
cushions. Yeah. Right? True. It's Thursday. Payday

00:55:55.110 --> 00:55:57.630
is Friday. I want to buy some scratchers at the

00:55:57.630 --> 00:56:01.469
Lucky 7, Paul. And I just got to get enough nickels

00:56:01.469 --> 00:56:04.829
together. You've mentioned scratchers a few times

00:56:04.829 --> 00:56:06.710
on this podcast. How many scratchers do you actually

00:56:06.710 --> 00:56:08.110
buy? Have I mentioned scratchers? Yeah, you have.

00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:10.739
yeah you're now you're talking the scratch off

00:56:10.739 --> 00:56:13.960
lottery tickets right yeah so i don't have powerball

00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:16.679
money you were you grew up working poor you were

00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:19.159
just trying to say it he did people like like

00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.639
i know i don't i know yeah no it's legit it's

00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:28.260
he's paul's legit yeah um uh scratchers powerball

00:56:28.260 --> 00:56:31.780
money but how many scratchers were you buying

00:56:31.780 --> 00:56:36.340
a week i'm worried about your scratchers A lot.

00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.380
Do you? Are you a scratchers guy? No, I'm not.

00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:43.000
Oh, you're not. Okay. I actually use... Pull

00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.460
tabs? Pull tabs? I was going to ask about pull

00:56:45.460 --> 00:56:47.699
tabs. See, now we're going off on a tangent again.

00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:50.739
But when I was 18, one of the first things I

00:56:50.739 --> 00:56:52.840
wanted to do was... Play pull tabs. Play pull

00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:56.880
tabs. Yeah. And so I got myself $10, a $10 roll

00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:00.590
of quarters. To go play pull tabs. And I kid

00:57:00.590 --> 00:57:02.909
you not, I won over a hundred bucks. What? Yeah.

00:57:03.090 --> 00:57:05.409
Wish he then spent on Swisher sweets. Probably.

00:57:08.309 --> 00:57:11.469
And I'm looking at how old Paul is. Maybe some

00:57:11.469 --> 00:57:15.429
school bandits. We didn't have Zins. I don't

00:57:15.429 --> 00:57:16.929
remember. Yeah, I'm not going to tell you what

00:57:16.929 --> 00:57:19.010
I spent it on. I don't even remember. I know

00:57:19.010 --> 00:57:20.570
what you're saying. It's not a lot of money,

00:57:20.670 --> 00:57:22.690
but it is a lot of money in the context of...

00:57:22.690 --> 00:57:25.510
Yeah, I mean, by anyone's measurement, it's a

00:57:25.510 --> 00:57:27.170
lot of money. It's just when you look at it relative

00:57:27.170 --> 00:57:29.190
to $80 billion, you go, boy, that seems like

00:57:29.190 --> 00:57:31.469
a lot of effort and a lot of work. And I know

00:57:31.469 --> 00:57:34.429
we need to wrap up. I've said that twice now.

00:57:37.829 --> 00:57:41.650
There are some big pieces that, like this piece,

00:57:41.670 --> 00:57:45.650
both capital budgets do this. Both capital budgets

00:57:45.650 --> 00:57:51.409
send a lot of money over to the operating side.

00:57:53.269 --> 00:57:59.909
The House broke the rules in my mind. And you

00:57:59.909 --> 00:58:01.429
say, Brian, what do you mean by that? Yeah, I

00:58:01.429 --> 00:58:02.769
was about to say that, actually. So kind of the

00:58:02.769 --> 00:58:07.730
rules of the budget are... you have to buy the

00:58:07.730 --> 00:58:11.449
bills that you pass off your floor. So if you

00:58:11.449 --> 00:58:15.289
pass the bill, you got to pay for it. Yep. And

00:58:15.289 --> 00:58:16.849
you can see that sprinkled throughout the budgets

00:58:16.849 --> 00:58:19.070
in the various departments and agencies. And

00:58:19.070 --> 00:58:24.690
you get to spend the money that you pass off

00:58:24.690 --> 00:58:29.429
the floor too. The revenue. So the fact that

00:58:29.429 --> 00:58:32.369
the Senate balances their four -year with the

00:58:32.369 --> 00:58:36.440
millionaire's tax credit. Seems appropriate to

00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:39.239
me. Because it started in the Senate. Well, it

00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:41.480
passed off the Senate floor. That's true. So

00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:43.500
they get to spend it. And you're saying the House

00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:45.840
does the same thing. The House does the same

00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:48.659
thing, but they didn't pass a bill. You know

00:58:48.659 --> 00:58:51.000
what's interesting, though? They're using money

00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:54.059
they haven't passed. Did you notice that the

00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:57.340
left one bill, 2034, was also paid for in the

00:58:57.340 --> 00:59:00.920
Senate budget? And educate me on this, because

00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:03.400
what I saw that there was one small piece of

00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:06.760
policy associated with that bill that was. that

00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:09.860
was assumed in the budget, but not like the whole,

00:59:09.940 --> 00:59:12.880
like 800 million or something. And I had a hard

00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:15.239
time finding the transfers, but they, I'll bet

00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:17.599
you they're in there somewhere because I, that,

00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:20.139
that stood out to me that the same thing that

00:59:20.139 --> 00:59:23.019
you're saying right now, right. That both of

00:59:23.019 --> 00:59:26.579
them utilize the millionaire's tax revenue in

00:59:26.579 --> 00:59:28.599
the four -year outlook to, but to balance their

00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:31.260
budgets. Right. And it's just the Senate that's

00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:33.679
passed the bill. Yeah. And generally you only

00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:36.840
see the house bills. The revenue bills realized

00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:40.320
in the House revenue and the House policy bills

00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:42.519
paid for in the House budget. And the same for

00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:44.960
the Senate. But here you have both of them using

00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:48.199
that one revenue bill and you have both of them

00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:52.500
funding the policy bill on the left one because

00:59:52.500 --> 00:59:56.019
of the excess revenue, right? The surplus that's

00:59:56.019 --> 00:59:58.550
going to be utilized. I could tell very quickly

00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:02.070
where it was going on the House side. Sure. I'm

01:00:02.070 --> 01:00:04.690
sure it's there somewhere on the Senate side,

01:00:04.789 --> 01:00:07.730
but it wasn't obvious to me where it was. Yeah,

01:00:07.769 --> 01:00:14.469
and so I didn't – I did not see it. That doesn't

01:00:14.469 --> 01:00:17.590
mean it's not in there. I didn't have time or

01:00:17.590 --> 01:00:19.190
I didn't look for it in the Senate side because

01:00:19.190 --> 01:00:20.730
I actually wasn't looking for it because I was

01:00:20.730 --> 01:00:22.690
assuming it wouldn't be in there since they haven't

01:00:22.690 --> 01:00:25.559
– Right. It's a – And you would assume that because

01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:32.840
it's a House bill. I am going to. There is. It's

01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:35.559
there is some there's there's a whole we're going

01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:38.320
to hear a whole host of members that are deciding

01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.840
not to run next year. And there'll be and there's

01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:44.219
all sorts of just rampant speculation because.

01:00:44.650 --> 01:00:46.650
We're lobbyists. We're horrible individuals.

01:00:46.909 --> 01:00:50.389
And we just speculate about people's lives and

01:00:50.389 --> 01:00:53.909
their futures with no regard. Speak for yourself,

01:00:54.289 --> 01:00:58.110
Brian. So Ornsby is one of those. And I have

01:00:58.110 --> 01:01:00.849
no inside information. I have not spoken to him

01:01:00.849 --> 01:01:04.869
directly about this. But here's what I thought.

01:01:05.429 --> 01:01:08.889
And I was like, he's taking the money from Leff?

01:01:08.949 --> 01:01:11.940
That guy's not coming back. Not that he needs

01:01:11.940 --> 01:01:13.539
to fundraise or anything like that, but I'm like,

01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:19.480
that guy's... And like I said, that is someone

01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:23.840
who's got the freedom to operate in a certain

01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:28.619
way. But on the Senate side, I think most of

01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:31.840
them are coming back. So I'm still a little,

01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:34.300
maybe not dubious about whether that pension

01:01:34.300 --> 01:01:38.449
play is going to move. I don't know, man. The

01:01:38.449 --> 01:01:41.150
millionaire's tax feels a little bit done. Yeah.

01:01:41.289 --> 01:01:45.050
Well, let's, that's another, that's another podcast.

01:01:45.170 --> 01:01:47.269
It is another podcast. And the, the, the clock

01:01:47.269 --> 01:01:49.489
is ticking, right? I mean, we've talked about

01:01:49.489 --> 01:01:50.889
this a couple of times. I don't know when this

01:01:50.889 --> 01:01:53.269
gets posted, but as of today, we're 16 days out.

01:01:53.329 --> 01:01:56.030
Yeah. Well, we're, we're 16 days out to signing

01:01:56.030 --> 01:01:58.929
dive, but you know, house of, or, you know, final

01:01:58.929 --> 01:02:01.429
floor cutoff is next Friday. Yeah. This is Wednesday.

01:02:01.789 --> 01:02:04.989
So we've got, you know, what, four days left

01:02:04.989 --> 01:02:07.800
in this week. And then, Five days next week.

01:02:07.820 --> 01:02:10.280
We're 12 days. We're nine days away. He's doing

01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:12.360
math. Yeah. Sorry, guys. I'm looking at some

01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:14.900
other things. But we're nine days away from the

01:02:14.900 --> 01:02:16.760
final cutoff before they just get to concurrent

01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:20.480
and budgets. Right. And so, you know, there's

01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:22.360
always a chance that one of these bills still

01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:24.760
comes up until Sonny die. Right. Because it's

01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:27.519
NTIP. Sure. Which there's a good chance. So,

01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:31.380
you know, add another. Well. What is next Friday?

01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:34.519
So another seven days to that. And you're right.

01:02:34.579 --> 01:02:36.500
You don't have very many days to go. You got,

01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:39.039
what, 16 days, something like that before the

01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:42.980
end. And that clicking, that ticking clock is

01:02:42.980 --> 01:02:44.719
getting louder and louder and louder. Yeah, yeah.

01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:47.420
Yeah, I'm starting to sweat like Captain Hook.

01:02:47.579 --> 01:02:59.550
Well. I think Paul needed this today, friends.

01:02:59.690 --> 01:03:02.610
I think Paul needed this today. It's been a long

01:03:02.610 --> 01:03:07.550
one. It's been a fun one. But the conversations

01:03:07.550 --> 01:03:09.690
are definitely getting more intense, right? And

01:03:09.690 --> 01:03:12.150
the rumor mill is getting more intense. Oh. And

01:03:12.150 --> 01:03:17.829
the idea that these budgets were, you know, not

01:03:17.829 --> 01:03:21.510
– it's just hard to speculate as to who's coming

01:03:21.510 --> 01:03:24.030
and who's going and, you know, what's actually

01:03:24.030 --> 01:03:30.089
going to happen by the end of this thing. I've

01:03:30.089 --> 01:03:32.349
heard so many rumors so many times in so many

01:03:32.349 --> 01:03:34.070
years. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, that you think

01:03:34.070 --> 01:03:37.030
are absolutely the thing and that they're completely

01:03:37.030 --> 01:03:39.550
wrong. And then you realize like one person started

01:03:39.550 --> 01:03:41.849
some rumor and it circled around. You just never

01:03:41.849 --> 01:03:44.010
know. I mean, everything you're hearing could

01:03:44.010 --> 01:03:46.489
absolutely be on point. And I'm hearing a lot

01:03:46.489 --> 01:03:51.099
of it too. I just, I can never allow myself to

01:03:51.099 --> 01:03:53.860
think that way because until you hear it right

01:03:53.860 --> 01:03:57.119
from that individual, or they either take action

01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:59.699
or they don't, or they adopt that amendment or

01:03:59.699 --> 01:04:01.440
they don't, you don't know what they're going

01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:05.239
to do. You just flat don't. So, you know, it's

01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:07.739
going to be an interesting finish. These budgets

01:04:07.739 --> 01:04:09.179
are going to be interesting. You know, these

01:04:09.179 --> 01:04:13.079
budgets haven't even... I think they're on their

01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:14.579
way. I think they have come out of committees

01:04:14.579 --> 01:04:17.659
at this point, right? So the next step is to...

01:04:17.659 --> 01:04:19.300
Certainly by the time this is posted. We might

01:04:19.300 --> 01:04:20.780
even have a budget off the floor by the time

01:04:20.780 --> 01:04:23.719
this is posted. Perhaps. And that's not any...

01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:25.920
I'm not impugning the excellent staff at WASAC.

01:04:25.940 --> 01:04:27.840
It just takes time and they have to move pretty

01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:29.639
quick. They have to move because the next step

01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:31.260
is to take them off the floor and then go to

01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:33.199
conference. Yep, exactly. So that they can get

01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:35.739
together and kind of hash this thing out. The

01:04:35.739 --> 01:04:37.059
interesting thing that I just want to mention

01:04:37.059 --> 01:04:39.260
on our way out, both budgets... cut children

01:04:39.260 --> 01:04:42.760
youth and families oh significantly oh working

01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:45.320
families um uh the working families connections

01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.119
like um child care i didn't say that right right

01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:51.960
um um it's w it's it's working connections child

01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:55.820
care thank you 680 million yeah it's eliminated

01:04:55.820 --> 01:04:59.860
yeah um behavioral health uh gets cut in this

01:04:59.860 --> 01:05:02.699
budget um on both sides whether it's the house

01:05:02.699 --> 01:05:08.090
or the senate yes um k through 12 education Yes,

01:05:08.090 --> 01:05:10.349
the transition to kindergarten program at like

01:05:10.349 --> 01:05:14.989
140, the local assistance at 110 million. Higher

01:05:14.989 --> 01:05:18.869
education gets hammered in this budget. Yes.

01:05:19.110 --> 01:05:23.769
Which has been a little bit of a trend when they've

01:05:23.769 --> 01:05:26.010
had some pretty difficult fiscal situations.

01:05:26.110 --> 01:05:28.190
If you remember back to the Great Recession,

01:05:28.389 --> 01:05:33.150
higher education really took a large load of

01:05:33.150 --> 01:05:36.630
the cuts back then as well. Natural Resources

01:05:36.630 --> 01:05:40.110
gets cut in both of these budgets as well. That's

01:05:40.110 --> 01:05:43.269
consistent across the board. So the only one

01:05:43.269 --> 01:05:45.969
that's really a little different is some other

01:05:45.969 --> 01:05:48.690
human services on the Senate side. But the Senate

01:05:48.690 --> 01:05:51.190
kind of classifies some of their categories a

01:05:51.190 --> 01:05:52.730
little different than the House. So it's hard

01:05:52.730 --> 01:05:55.969
to see which ones might actually overlap versus

01:05:55.969 --> 01:05:58.349
which ones don't. But there is some continuity

01:05:58.349 --> 01:06:02.449
and consistency there as well. There's just varying

01:06:02.449 --> 01:06:07.659
degrees of cuts. Yeah. And, you know, just to

01:06:07.659 --> 01:06:09.820
point on higher ed, right, during the Great Recession,

01:06:09.860 --> 01:06:13.619
one of the things that really became they they

01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:18.539
the state used to have very tight controls on

01:06:18.539 --> 01:06:23.210
tuition authority. Yeah. That's right. And so

01:06:23.210 --> 01:06:27.449
you had not an equivalent of basic ed apportionment,

01:06:27.510 --> 01:06:30.809
but you had essentially what the state would

01:06:30.809 --> 01:06:34.449
pay for a student and then combined with the

01:06:34.449 --> 01:06:36.369
tuition authority was expected to cover the cost.

01:06:36.510 --> 01:06:39.409
And they basically just delinked that and said,

01:06:39.449 --> 01:06:40.769
hey, we're going to pay you this much and then

01:06:40.769 --> 01:06:42.309
you guys can figure it out on tuition. And tuition

01:06:42.309 --> 01:06:46.050
went way up such that. Trust me, I know. I had

01:06:46.050 --> 01:06:50.269
kids going to college a few years later. Pretty

01:06:50.269 --> 01:06:52.369
brutal. It was 5 % of the community colleges,

01:06:52.590 --> 01:06:54.610
7 % of the regionals, and like 9 % of the UW.

01:06:55.010 --> 01:06:56.570
Something like that. And it was year over year

01:06:56.570 --> 01:06:58.650
for a while. And it was year over year. And such

01:06:58.650 --> 01:07:00.170
that they even had a policy where they had to

01:07:00.170 --> 01:07:02.809
ratchet it back. Right. Messed up our whole 529

01:07:02.809 --> 01:07:06.889
savings plan. Anyhow, here we are. It's getting

01:07:06.889 --> 01:07:09.570
dark. Here we are. We'll see what happens. I

01:07:09.570 --> 01:07:11.030
just wanted to point some of those things out.

01:07:11.110 --> 01:07:13.010
Those are some other consistencies. And some

01:07:13.010 --> 01:07:15.829
of those are kind of surprising, right? That

01:07:15.829 --> 01:07:18.489
they decided to make cuts in some of those areas.

01:07:18.750 --> 01:07:21.239
Other areas. like state agencies, increases.

01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:25.460
State employees. Compensation. Compensation,

01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:32.699
up, right? Making new investments there. Corrections

01:07:32.699 --> 01:07:34.980
of criminal justice, an area you would think

01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:37.860
they would cut. They're actually making some

01:07:37.860 --> 01:07:41.199
increases in that area, in both budgets. So there's

01:07:41.199 --> 01:07:44.030
just some interesting kind of... You know, a

01:07:44.030 --> 01:07:45.769
little bit of intrigue here, something to kind

01:07:45.769 --> 01:07:48.389
of think about, you know, kind of look a little

01:07:48.389 --> 01:07:51.909
deeper into, et cetera, and maybe ask a few questions,

01:07:52.110 --> 01:07:54.349
you know, why. Yeah. You know, what's specifically

01:07:54.349 --> 01:08:00.369
going on. And the single, by a factor of almost

01:08:00.369 --> 01:08:06.170
10, the single biggest line item investment was

01:08:06.170 --> 01:08:09.710
$1 billion for, like, insurance. Yeah. For the

01:08:09.710 --> 01:08:13.920
state liability. I don't know if you saw, but

01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.760
the one liability tort reform bill that we had

01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:20.199
going this year is dead. Yeah. So that's not

01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:22.920
even moving forward on a policy level. So in

01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:26.020
the Senate budget, the single biggest line item

01:08:26.020 --> 01:08:29.760
expenditure was $1 billion towards the self -insurance

01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:33.439
fund state. And then the next one was a little

01:08:33.439 --> 01:08:39.770
over, I think. It was in the $100 million range

01:08:39.770 --> 01:08:41.869
for immigrant health care, essentially. Yeah,

01:08:41.909 --> 01:08:46.010
well, that's the Medicaid backfills. That was

01:08:46.010 --> 01:08:49.069
a big part of the budget. Well, Brian, I feel

01:08:49.069 --> 01:08:52.470
like we've talked through a lot of it, and we've

01:08:52.470 --> 01:08:53.909
only scratched the surface. I mean, we could

01:08:53.909 --> 01:08:58.010
go on and on and on about this, but hopefully

01:08:58.010 --> 01:09:01.119
our members have gotten a pretty good... or our

01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:03.539
listeners, whoever. You don't have to be a member

01:09:03.539 --> 01:09:05.340
to listen to this. But hopefully they've gotten

01:09:05.340 --> 01:09:07.739
kind of... Free to everyone. Yeah, a little look

01:09:07.739 --> 01:09:10.100
into kind of what's happening behind the scenes

01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:11.880
in the budget and a little bit of a flavor for

01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:13.600
it. I feel like some of the things that we just

01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:16.779
talked about, especially that liability piece

01:09:16.779 --> 01:09:20.899
that continues to increase for the state, it's

01:09:20.899 --> 01:09:25.239
also been a huge... cost driver for local governments.

01:09:25.539 --> 01:09:27.399
We're going to be talking about that as far as

01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:29.539
liability reform for state and local governments

01:09:29.539 --> 01:09:31.159
for years to come, unfortunately. Yes, we are.

01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:34.960
A big subject. Brian, thanks for coming, man.

01:09:35.100 --> 01:09:37.659
It's so great to have you here. And your experience

01:09:37.659 --> 01:09:39.579
and your depth of knowledge on the budget is

01:09:39.579 --> 01:09:42.399
really helpful for me personally to understand

01:09:42.399 --> 01:09:45.579
kind of what's going on. With, again, that picture

01:09:45.579 --> 01:09:48.079
that I can see is there, but I don't really understand

01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:50.420
it all the time when I'm looking through these

01:09:50.420 --> 01:09:53.840
documents. So if it's helpful for me, I know

01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:55.659
it's really helpful for our members. So I appreciate

01:09:55.659 --> 01:09:57.899
it. Well, best part of my day, Paul. Thanks.

01:09:58.619 --> 01:10:01.800
I so doubt that. No, it's 100 % true. Well, then

01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.180
I'm really sorry for me. I kind of feel bad for

01:10:04.180 --> 01:10:07.810
you. That's the best part of your day. I'm going

01:10:07.810 --> 01:10:10.229
to re -listen to this five times. At least. You

01:10:10.229 --> 01:10:11.930
should. It's a little long, though. This one's

01:10:11.930 --> 01:10:13.649
a little long. This one's a little long. Well,

01:10:13.670 --> 01:10:16.010
thanks, Brian, and thanks to our listeners. Everything

01:10:16.010 --> 01:10:18.310
you do out there as far as our members go for

01:10:18.310 --> 01:10:20.189
your communities each and every day and the sacrifices

01:10:20.189 --> 01:10:22.430
you and your family make, do not go unnoticed.

01:10:22.689 --> 01:10:25.590
We appreciate them here at WASAC, and we're sure

01:10:25.590 --> 01:10:27.710
that your constituents appreciate them as well.

01:10:28.090 --> 01:10:29.850
We hope that you can join us for our next chat,

01:10:29.949 --> 01:10:35.640
and until then, take good care. Thanks for tuning

01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:37.880
in to County Connection. Stay in the loop by

01:10:37.880 --> 01:10:40.220
subscribing to us through your preferred podcasting

01:10:40.220 --> 01:10:42.979
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01:10:42.979 --> 01:10:45.039
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01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:47.340
your go -to source for the latest news and updates

01:10:47.340 --> 01:10:49.539
from the Washington State Association of Counties.

01:10:49.659 --> 01:10:52.420
Until next time, stay connected and stay informed.