You are a little more mature than I am, which
drove my parents nuts, of course. Every day.
Over and over, yeah. Over and over and over.
It's just one of those. It could happen anytime.
Welcome to County Connection. the official podcast
of the Washington State Association of Counties,
where we dive into the legislative issues shaping
the future of our communities. From budgets to
public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll
break down what's happening in Olympia and how
it impacts counties from across the Evergreen
State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join
us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39
counties. Welcome, everybody, to the County Connection
Podcast. I'm Paul Jewell. Your host, and this
is the official podcast of the Washington State
Association of Counties. You know, usually this
time of year, we focus our podcasts almost exclusively
on what's going on in the legislative session
here in Olympia because I, what is this, Friday,
February 20th, something like that. But today
is a little different. I'm hanging with Hutzel,
which sounds like a really cool. But it's going
to be a really cool podcast because Commissioner
Hutzel from Lincoln County is here joining me.
How are you, Commissioner? Great, Paul. Good
to see you. Glad to be with you. Yeah, you're
a long ways from home hanging out here in Olympiana
Friday with the rest of us. What's going on?
Yeah, this 300 miles is good. I used to do this
a lot when I chaired the Public Works Board.
Yeah, you did. And the nine years I spent on
there, they were... Public Works Board meetings
were on Friday. Right. So I was always here until
2, 3, 4 o 'clock in the afternoon. In fact, there
was one today. And I was there. Oh, you were?
I was there. Well, there you go. First thing,
I had to stick my head in. Of course you did.
Yeah. Old habits die hard. Because that's a...
And when they start talking about broadband down
there, I've got to have my head in that trying
to tell the history. For sure. Well, Commissioner
Hutzel, you and I go way back. 18 years. Yeah.
Wow. Has it been that long? So for, you know,
both of us are not very young. So to say that's
way back is probably not totally accurate. But
we do go back a little ways. Yes, we do. Which
is good. You and I were actually elected at the
same time, and we went through newly elected
officials training together. That's when we first
met. Yeah, that's when we first met. Now, you're
considered. I'm not a county commissioner. I
haven't been. I still call you the commissioner.
I appreciate that. I wouldn't. But it's been
almost over eight years now, believe it or not.
But you have been a county commissioner for the
whole time out there in Lincoln County, and you're
almost considered the OG here at WASAC. There's
only myself and Commissioner Ron Wiesen. After
Cindy Carter, if she decides to retire this fall,
and Ron and I will be the OGs. And Ron was in
our class, too. Yes, he was. So, I mean, you
could say the three of us are the last. The last
commissioner standing, so to speak, and I'm not
even a county commissioner. I'm just here at
WASAC. Out of that group. Wow, that's amazing.
Yeah. That's amazing. That is a long time when
you think about it, 18 years. Yes. A lot can
happen in that period of time. We saw the Great
Recession, went through the pandemic. You know,
here we are again, you know, through a housing
crisis. We saw several presidencies. You know,
one governor, really, two, I guess. Well, three.
Three. Started with Gregoire, then mostly through
Inslee. We've got the Ferguson administration,
but a lot of water under the bridge. A lot of
stuff. I was looking at the pictures on the wall
down there, and Lynn was there, and we were kind
of going through the people that I remember on
here, and there's a lot more of them on those
rows. She's got a couple more to put up there.
You start getting them on there, and it's been
great. So you're an old tire guy, right? I was
in the tire business for 50 years. And I'm an
old furniture guy. Now, I wasn't in the furniture
business for 50 years, but I was in the furniture
business for almost 10. So we're two old retailers
that somehow ended up here. In local government.
How did that happen for you? Well, I had, you
know, I did a... I had some interest, and my
predecessor had done 16 years as a Lincoln County
Commissioner. That's an impressive number, too.
I knew him, and I was on the school board. In
Davenport, my hometown, where I grew up. The
metropolitan city. Yeah, the largest city in
Lincoln County. All 1 ,800 people that are there.
Shout out to all our listeners in Davenport.
And I did that 10 -year school board thing. So
I was still kind of sunsetting my business. So
you were on the school board before? 10 years
before I was a county commissioner. So I had
a little bit of a hard gig at the school board.
Yes. yeah but that was a great uh great basis
for then because i that gave you some um People,
things that you didn't, you know, I had that
in business, hiring people and doing those things.
But school, that was a little bit different,
a little quasi -government piece. But it had
a fiscal component to it, you know, running bond
issues, chairing bond committees for new construction.
Understanding government funding, all that stuff.
So then when Commissioner Bolinas said, you need
to think about this job. And then I got to thinking
about it. I went to some commissioner meetings.
And the more I saw, I thought this would be.
And my grandfather was Lincoln County Sheriff
from 1932 to 1940 and Lincoln County Commissioner
from 1940 to 1944. Wow. So you have a lot of
family history out there. So I got a little history
about. Although I wasn't even born yet when he
was there. Yeah. So, you know, I'm homegrown
in Lincoln County. You know, I own a business
there for 35 years. I own the business. When
I was first campaigning, people would ask me,
so what do you know about the roads in Lincoln
County? Yeah, of course. I said, I have been
on every one of them with a service truck hauling
combine tires around and tractor tires and things
like that. So I kind of had that piece and knowing
people, I could drive into any town. in Lincoln
County and know people that were there in every
one of them. So it was, it was, uh, um, I thought
I could bring something to a business background.
My predecessor had a business background before
that, for the most part, Lincoln County, our
County commissioners were all farmers. Right.
Well, that was really typical. Because they were
road commissioners. In those agricultural communities.
Because you're right. Back in the day, county
commissioners were really just road commissioners.
That's all. Yeah. Because we had elected officials
for everything else. And all the stuff that we
do now, the building permitting, the planning,
HR, IT, facilities, none of that. none of that
existed not really no it just didn't no it just
didn't yep even public health you know wasn't
what it is today right we didn't have the mental
health and developmental disability services
that we provide the behavioral health stuff and
all of that i mean there might have been a few
clinics or two yeah but it wasn't the same as
it is today no for those services and stuff and
how many how many more people i can remember
as a kid going into the courthouse which was
you know i i can stand i tell people i can stand
on the front porch of my house and see the The
flag on the top of the corner from my house.
I'm not that far away. But the amount of people.
The amount of people it took to operate local
government at that time. No computers. Those
offices that now have four people in them used
to have eight or nine people in them. Well, because
everything was done by hand. Everything was done
by hand. And just how that has changed. is interesting.
We still have the same, the same square miles.
Yeah. The footprint's still there. Right. Well,
you know, the true test, the true test for generational
familiarity or generational roots in a community
like Lincoln County is, do you have a rural road
with your last name on it? Yeah. And, and I,
I do not, but I can tell you the other one when
you're local. you got at least three generations
in the cemetery. That's true, too. That's the
other side. But I do not have a road. I do not.
Well, so I would have thought you would have.
With the generations that you had out there,
I figured there would be a Hutzel Road out there
somewhere. And there is one where my dad was
born out by Telford Rest Area that might be one
that could be. I don't have an overpass like
Senator Schoesler has. Maybe you can rename one
or something like that. Yeah. Something like
that. If I was running for re -election, I wouldn't
do that. But, you know, I know some people out
in Lincoln County, some of your constituents,
and I know where their roads are. I know where
the road that is this family's road and that
family's road. And the same is true where I live
in Kennetass County, right? A lot of the old
families, the roads were named after them. And
the thing is, you know, i've got some of the
old logs about when the county paid the farmers
to maintain the roads oh yeah that's how they
that's how they all started yeah that's how they
all started no way you can do that so when you
were going down there you know they just build
one and then they have to name it we didn't have
we didn't have like w's and fives and sixes they're
they all got names right they all got names and
some of them are how in the world 9 -1 -1 when
they did all that you know and then renamed them
boy there were some battles there were some battles
because this neighbor wanted this thing to be
this way and this one wanted to be that way it
wasn't even that long ago that that happened
i remember that that was about 20 30 years ago
right right so i remember those battles and it
got pretty heated at times and some people you
know they had private roads and they didn't want
they didn't want a name on that road the young
man that that actually graduated out of college
young, from Davenport, local young man, kind
of got the job. He graduated in planning. He
got the job at the county to do that. He never
made it. He didn't get them all named. And if
you meet this young, and now he's your age or
older. Nicest, nicest young man ever. And he
got he got beat up mercifully on some of that
stuff. Well, Commissioner, I think it's a good
thing you ended up where you are. It probably
was in your blood before you knew it. Seems how
your grandfather was a great grandfather. My
grandfather and my great -grandfather on my mom's
side was on the city council in Davenport. It
was in your blood. It was part of you before
you were even born. You got two seconds for a
little story? Yeah. So back in the teens, maybe
even a little before that in Davenport, both
my grandfather and my great -grandfather were
both on the city council in Davenport at the
same time. Oh, wow. And at that time, we had...
a part of Park Street, which is along Cottonwood
Creek, that had several houses of ill repute.
All right, now this is a family program. This
is a family program. And so it got to where they
had to finally resolution to shut down those.
facilities, those businesses, and it was a split
vote on the city council. Oh, really? I'm not
going to tell you which one's which, but one
of my grandfathers voted to shut them down, and
the other one voted to keep them open. But they
were shut down. I think it was 1909 or 1910 is
when this was happening. Imagine the family discussion
around the Thanksgiving table. And after that,
as it went down the road, our families didn't
– that older generation, there wasn't a lot of
– Oh, man. Well, that's some good family history
there. That was a little piece of history. Oh,
my goodness. Well, Commissioner, I'm glad that,
like I said, I'm glad it worked out the way that
it did. I think Lincoln County has been better
off because you've been there. And I know that
WASAC certainly has been benefited by your presence
here and your presence as an elected county commissioner.
And I certainly have been benefited personally
by your friendship. But that's mutual. Well,
thank you. Mutual also. But that's not what I
wanted to talk about. talk about today okay um
i think that our listeners would really benefit
from hearing about what's going on in lincoln
county around broadband deployment um i i don't
know if you know but uh i've been to commissioner
kaufman's house a couple yes yes yes and uh one
of the things we talked about one time was just
um he just went on and on and on and on and on
about your work with broadband and how you have
kind of built this, I don't know what you want
to call it, but this whole system, this empire,
if you will, of broadband in Lincoln County,
which I just find fascinating and really unique
and remarkable for a county your size. And I
think people would really like to hear how you
did that. What was the secret sauce? Would you
mind sharing some of those details? Sure. My
early... Early days as a county commissioner,
get back to 2010, 11, in that area. Great recession
time. Great recession time. And broadband was
kind of being talked about a little bit. And
we, of course, were looking around in Lincoln
County. We're neighbors to Spokane County. But
we kind of looked at that. If anybody's ever
going to, about that time, know Annette. came
on board. And NOAHnet is an open access fiber.
And that's really the key dark fiber that's out
there that anybody can ride on. You have all
sorts of proprietary fiber out there. We're talking
like carbon fiber. AT &T, yeah, the fiber optics.
The stuff that's buried in the ground or hung
on the poles and stuff like that. So they got
a grant. formed this group of PUDs, actually,
and they got a grant from the federal government
to build to what they called anchor institutions
in communities all over the state of Washington.
Okay, NOADET did this? NOADET did. So they came.
to Lincoln County. You know, we didn't know.
You're right on Highway 2. They're on Highway
2. It goes right through, right? And some went
south, Harrington, didn't go to Sprague, went
on down to Odessa and down into Adams County
and stuff. We went west to Creston because that's
where they made access off the Bonneville Power
Administration's high line through there that
comes from Grand Coulee Dam. Sure. That's where
the big fiber's at. So that's where we... tied
off of. Then they went to Wilbur. Didn't go to
Elmira. So we have our eight cities and towns.
So we didn't have any dark fiber in Sprague or
Elmira. So we're in the early 2012. Sprague is
in Lincoln County? Yeah. Sprague was the county
seat of Lincoln County in 1883. Commissioner
Swanick lives right up there, doesn't he? He
must just barely be on the Whitman County side.
Oh, yeah, and Spokane County. Oh, yeah, he's
within 1 ,000 feet. of both Spokane County and
Lincoln County oh no kidding and then he can
see Adams County from his house and he lives
in Whitman County right he's right there in the
corner so he's just right up there in the corner
right there right there about as far from Pullman
as you can get and still be in Whitman County
that's exactly right okay I was just orienting
myself a little bit I thought Sprague was actually
still in Whitman But it's not. It's in Lincoln.
It's in Lincoln, down kind of that corner. Okay.
Yeah, that corner. Yeah. So it was the county
seat of Lincoln County, 1883 to start with. They
built a courthouse. They had the whole thing
going. There's not much there now. The whole
thing going. And then the railroad. That's where
the railroad was. So then there was a group of
people from Davenport that wanted the county
seat in Davenport. So they organized an election.
a referendum, whatever they did, to move the
county seat from Sprague to Davenport. A lot
of that happened in a lot of counties at different
times. In the 1890s. Early statehood. And, of
course, we've always been accused of stealing
the county seat from Sprague. I still hear it
when I go down there. Of course. So they ran,
and it lost. They didn't work. So they came back
a couple of years later and ran it again and
they got it passed. And then you talk about these
guys on horses rode down to Sprague and gathered
up all the documents they needed and took them
back to Davenport. And then they had a courthouse,
our courthouse built in Davenport. Very similar
to the one that had been built in Sprague. Is
the one in Sprague still there? No. Oh, it's
gone. No, it's gone. So there's a lot of stories
like that with other counties, which is so interesting.
But there's stories about how they came to get
the documents, and the town locked them up, and
they wouldn't let them in. Well, there was a
lot of that going on in between, and a little
bit of they all had their guns out. Yep, and
they didn't want to give up the county seat.
They weren't going to do that. I live in Ellensburg.
I didn't grow up there. I live in Ellensburg,
and there's still rumor in Ellensburg about how
the Fourth of July fire wasn't necessarily accidental
because, of course, Ellensburg was competing
with Olympia at the time and Spokane for the
capital of Washington. And both Spokane and Ellensburg
burned their downtowns during that time. Somehow,
mysteriously, Olympia did not. But that's why
both Ellensburg and Spokane are rebuilt with
bricks. Right. Right? Right. So there's still,
even today, there's still that kind of, those
rumors and that animosity and all that, that
kind of, the finger pointing, it's really kind
of interesting. Wouldn't it be fun to be able
to go, this is kind of my field of dreams thing
about going back and getting into the minds,
what precipitated some of these things? Because
I'm just always in awe of what. people accomplished
100 oh yeah but how they how did the limited
tools and all that but on building or or even
just just structure of organizations and without
being able to, I mean, you can't call on the
phone. No, you can't send letters or telegraph.
You can't jump in your car. No, get on the back
of a horse. Get on the back of a horse. And so
my grandfather, my great -grandfather on my mom's
side, one of the ones that was on the city council,
had the first car in Davenport. Oh, wow. It was
a 1907 black from the Black Motor Company in
Chicago, bought it out of the Collier's catalog,
which I still have a copy of. Amazing. For $795.
And it came in on the rail. Amazing. And they
took it off the car, bolted the wheels on it.
Two things they needed. Had to have a battery.
And it had to have gasoline. Right. Neither one
of those was probably anywhere in Lincoln County.
So they went to the telephone company to get
the battery. Because the telephone was run by
batteries at that time. And went to the drugstore
and ordered the gasoline. And the druggist brought
the gasoline. That's amazing. And that's the
story of just another. one of those stories i
feel like we digressed a little bit but broad
broadband but broadband so we're in about 2012
or so we got a uh so our economic development
uh council hired a young lady margie's from uh
grew up in cheney that went to eastern had a
planning degree and stuff she came on board as
our edc director okay about that same time there
were some uh The state had some grants available
called local technology planning team grants.
Precourser took some of the bat teams. Okay.
This was. And the bat teams, that's federal money,
right? Yeah. I mean, they were just broadband
action teams. You needed to start, get the players
together. So this was before that. It was kind
of similar to that. Just right before that. So
we got the EDC and we got other people and got
a facilitator from WSU and paid for that and
talked about building high -speed broadband in
Lincoln County. And what did that look like?
And so that was kind of the infancy of just looking
at it. One of the things that really popped up
was you look around and you saw the frontier
Comcast, the players that were starting to hit
in Spokane, because you'd see that stuff, and
it became very evident looking around us. No
one was coming to Lincoln County. Well, from
a business point of view, right? If you're going
to make an investment as a private company that's
going to provide high -speed internet, you want
to maximize your customer base. Got to have the
people. And it just wasn't there. So you're going
to the urban environments, and Lincoln County
is not that. No. So then it became okay. We knew
the no -in -net fiber that they put in the highways
and stuff was there and a few anchor tenants.
We kind of knew that. And then we finished up
that grant and we had some paperwork. I mean,
we could show what we were trying to do in Lincoln
County, both Margie Hall at our EDC, and I was
on the EDC board also, represented from the county
as a county commissioner. Then it was okay. Then
we waited a little bit. And we kind of watched,
and we couldn't afford to start building infrastructure
like that. Heck, we didn't even know what it
was, basically. Yeah, I mean, you've got to put
in vaults, and you've got to put in other access
points. You've got to dig big trenches and all
kinds of stuff. All that stuff. You know, we
knew CenturyLink, and there was some of that
around. So then the state. So then about 2012.
I was appointed to the Public Works Board for
the state of Washington. And the Public Works
Board, so I got to watch a little bit about,
at that time, we had a state broadband office
with a gentleman by the name of Will Saunders
was operating the state broadband office, of
which a couple of years after that, they closed
down because that wasn't working. Curb, the Community
Economic and Revitalization Board, kind of became
the first conduit to get some money out. And
Curb is different than the Public Works Board.
Totally different board. Two different models.
Totally different mission. Yeah. One's an economic
mission. One's an infrastructure mission. Which
you could argue is also economic. But it's different
types of projects. Right. Typically go to CURB
versus the Public Works Board. And CURB does
loans as well as grants. They do some grants
where the Public Works Board was predominantly
loans. Predominantly loans. Predominantly loans.
Until they were able to get some allocation from
the state. We asked for some. broadband money
now did you get it from curb or from no we got
it from the state oh we got well okay when i
say we i'm now i'm i'm putting myself on the
public works board ah and so we got it okay we
got um got some money to to do some broadband
loans okay So you, as part of the public works
board, got some money. Was it from the state
broadband office, essentially? No, because it
was gone at that time. I remember the state broadband
office wasn't going yet. It's hard to keep up
with all these things. Oh, it's been an interesting.
So the state just had some money. So Curb was
doing some stuff. Okay. And then PWB, broadband,
then we started into that. came Senator Wellman.
She was on our public works board. I got appointed
as chairman of the public works board in 16.
Boy, they didn't know what they were in for when
they did that. No, that gentleman before retired
and got into that, and that was when the legislation
came through to, I call, stand up the public
works, excuse me, the state broadband office.
Oh, okay, okay. So that, that. happened when
when when i was chairman of the public works
board okay so we stood that up so now we had
curb and then we had pwb public works board and
then the state broadband office okay and russ
elliott came in as one of the first broadband
director at that time and so at that point you
really had kind of the administrative infrastructure
that you needed to start getting some resources
out the door yeah then then then what happened
then the those entities all got a little bit
of money from the state to start doing grants
out to get to people and now i'm fast forward
i'm now into 21 and i'm now uh have spent my
nine years on the public works board Doing infrastructure
stuff and helping, working with PWB, working
with the state broadband office, trying to stand
this up for the whole state. Right. So then they
all got some money and then there was a push
and the legislature gave some money to everybody
and they had these grant rounds. Yeah, I remember
that. To do fiber optic infrastructure in. So
there was PUDs, ports. Ports were big, you know,
recipients. Some counties. So we're sitting there.
Margie's moved on to commerce. Well, I think
an important piece here, this is 2021, right?
So this is right at the end of the pandemic.
Right at the end of the pandemic. Right, and
that's when it really became clear the disparity
that existed even within, you know, Washington
State and other places. Of the who's got it and
who doesn't. And the impact. The rural areas
that didn't have it. Right. And there's rural
in every county in the state of Washington. So
these gaps and stuff. So you come to Lincoln
County, we are one of the most sparsely populated
counties in the state and stuff. So anyway, we
had... But people couldn't work. Yeah, no. The
kids couldn't go to school. There were lots of
those things. In certain areas they could because
they had it. In other areas, I mean, you saw
photos of kids with laptops sitting outside Taco
Bell. Yeah, and McDonald's. Trying to capture
their Wi -Fi. Yeah, to do those pieces. And the
people that were in your county, even if they
worked, for larger companies like, say, in Spokane
or somewhere else where they commuted every day,
they couldn't get the connectivity that they
needed to keep their jobs going. As the need
for a little bit more reliable, faster internet
was needed for those jobs. So we started, so
Margie's gone to work for Commerce now. So I
had a new person at our EDC. We go, well, so
we're talking with the Port of Whitman, Petrichor.
They were doing some things with, and they said,
hey, we would love to help you guys. And I said,
well, that would be great. So we started writing
grants, and we wrote, we, both a gal from. Petrocor
and our new EDC gal that was only there a very
short period of time to write six grants of which
we were successful in all six grants. Oh, no
kidding. From curb to PWB through supplemental
grants and stuff for, for a total of just shy
of $30 million. And you got to remember that
this is what you got. Okay. All right. Did you
know somebody on the, well, you know, I always
said it, it, it, it didn't hurt to have been
there and know all the players that were there.
And, but they knew we had, we had already done
all the, all the groundwork, all the stuff that
Margie had done in our local town. So when, when
we had that for a, a, a, you know, an application,
you know, that's the kind of stuff they just
love. You guys have got all this already lined
out. What is your general fund budget? What was
it at the time? nine million oh no you you we
could get into trying to cash flow these grants
so just out of the blue now now we've got it
wasn't really out of the blue because you've
done the prep which is so important right it's
very much so i mean you know that from your business
life you know that from your personal life you
know that from your political life and if anybody
hasn't figured that out yet Well, that's the
key to success, right, is preparation. Is preparation.
Always. For sure. So you did that groundwork,
and then suddenly you had $30 million of projects.
Was that overwhelming? I mean, was that a little
scary? No. No. Because I wanted this so bad,
Paul. Yeah, but you were a little freaked out
that you couldn't spend $30 million. You don't
get opportunities like that. You have to figure
out how to make it work. Now, were there sleepless
nights? I am still married to my wife. Now, we're
45 years now into this. fortunate to work with
a lot of great people. I mean, you can't do that
in a little county and try to pull that all off.
So anyway, this all came together. But I mean,
where do you find the work, you know, the companies?
You know what I mean? I guess if you have enough
money, they'll go anywhere, but still. And we've
just talked about that today with the new state
broadband director, a little bit about workforce
and our contractors and things like that to put
that together because we couldn't. So fast forward,
our EDC director, Margie Hall, had gone to work
for the state in one of the programs at Commerce.
She was a program director. She went there because
she could make a lot more money doing that. So
she's over doing that. Still living in Davenport.
Good for her. And our gal that helped write the
grants and stuff, she and her husband were going
to go open another. a business on their own and
do some, not broadband business, but another
bit. I needed somebody to do this. So I, I called,
I called Margie up. She'd been there. I mean,
we're talking about from the time she started
with the EDC till she was about 10 years. Oh,
wow. And so she, I mean, the background she had,
she's marvelous. I mean, marvelous. I said, I
need you. I need you to do this. And your footprint
is all over this from the very beginning. Oh,
and by the way, I have $30 million of that. So
I said, you tell me how much money you need to
come to work here, and I'll go see if I can borrow
that from my seatmates, which is always one of
those making the case. But I have great seatmates.
bought into the vision of what we could do. And
then this is how it, I, I envisioned it had to,
it kind of had to play out. So that's what we,
uh, we kind of started with that. Margie came
to work. We started, looked, so the money, you
know, it's all there. It's all there, all there.
So we had to, we had to. play it out so we did
curb and then we did a little broadband office
money then we did public works board money and
now we're coming back to do some more state broadband
office and kind of staged it some some of the
projects work together some were kind of standalones
you know we did people we we did we did the cities
of harrington creston and almira first Oh, and
a mid -mile between Wilbur and Elmira. And they
go, why did you do those? Well, that's how the
grants, everything we've done there has been
driven by the timing of the grant and how much
money we got in the grant. Oh, it's like transportation,
too. Oh, yeah, same thing, Paul. You do your
plan, and you know you want it to go this way,
but... Now you can get this grant and you have
to do that piece. And now you can get that grant.
You've got to do this piece. And it doesn't always
make sense to people who see it with the naked
eye because they don't understand the plan. When
are you coming to my town? Right. Why are you
doing them first? So let me ask you this. So
this sounds like you got some grant money to
basically make the connections, right? This was
basically to all eight cities and towns. These
are all fiber to the home projects. Okay. So
tell me what that. Let me ask you, put a pin
in that because I want to know what that means.
Okay. But you said NoahNet was already there.
So you had these runs in different places. What
we call the backbone. That was our backbone.
So that was your backbone. And then you created
the pieces that either connected, disconnected
pieces or went from NoahNet to the cities. Okay.
Right. Now, what does fiber to the home mean?
Okay. after you've built so you've got your backbone
out there that no one that provided and then
we built the infrastructure that would be either
on poles or in the ground and stuff that would
that would be a a network okay then from that
network then we have drops and the drops is what
goes to the home right so these were you know
some some Projects would just build the infrastructure,
but they wouldn't build it to the home. So that's
the difference in this one. We built and took
the drops paid to have the drops taken clear
to the home. So then what you had is when an
internet service provider, once our network's
all up and running, then the ISPs come in and
they just kind of plug them in, put in the stuff,
and they're off and running. Well, that was my
next question is you can put the fiber in the
ground. You can even get the connection to the
home. Somebody's got to light it up and provide
a service. And that was the reason you didn't
have it before is because there wasn't enough.
The internet service providers. There wasn't
enough incentive for them to come. Right. They
didn't have the money to put in the infrastructure.
They didn't have the money to do all that. So
if we were to. put everything right down to a
co -location facility where they could plug their
stuff in and plug the customers in. So now they're
interested. Now they're interested. Because they're
going to get that monthly service fee. So little
old Lincoln County, we have right now, not in
every town, we have eight internet service providers
in Lincoln County. Really? Yeah. Now, did you
guys have to negotiate those deals? We kind of
had a... pathway with our uh with petricor they
kind of helped us because they'd done some things
in whitman county and kind of could lead us through
some of the and and then we came up with okay
this is what it's going to cost you to be in
our for electricity this is what's going to cost
you to be in our co -location facility okay these
are you so you all you all will have you'll deal
direct we don't deal with the customers right
so they they bill direct to the customer they
do all that customer as far as the customer knows
it's just coming from Whoever. Right. Right.
But does the county get the piece? Yes. So the
piece we get right now, each one of those connections
to the home, we get $20 for a month. Oh. For
each one of those connections. That's actually
a healthy piece. So when they come in, you know,
you can get gigabyte, you know, symmetrical speed.
You know, that's high speed internet as a, you
know, up and down at that for $59 .95 a month.
$20 is going to the county. And $20 of that,
$60 goes to the county. So every one of those
connections, then $20 comes to the county. Okay,
and what are you doing with that? Right now,
we're still paying what we do get. We've got
to pay a broadband director. We have to build
what's called make -ready with the power companies.
Is this redundancy or something? No, out on the
poles. So imagine the poles that are around in
your town that your power company has or your
telecommunications, Lumens, or whoever have.
And they want to make sure that when you tell
them, you do a design, okay, then it's... what
has to what has to happen on their side so their
infrastructure can accommodate that okay that
makes so what they do then is go okay we need
a new pole put here because of this we need a
guy wire on a pole because you're over here right
and we need a new cross arm on this pole because
of this so they come then a vista or inland power
and light come to us and say okay To do this
piece of line, it's going to cost $100 ,000 for
us to fix everything on here. You need to pay
us now for the make ready. So that's a piece
that has to happen before we can start the actual
construction of it. So they've got to prepare
the infrastructure that they have, make sure
it can handle whatever you're putting on it.
Then we have the franchise negotiations with
all the cities. You know, we're good with doing
the county because we are the county and some
of the stuff that's actually in the state right
away. And we have two railroads. Right. And different
things, you know, rail crossing permits, a lot
of permitting things, you know, to make that
successful inside of each. So each one of these
four grants plus the supplemental pieces in the
grant, I've all got. intricate things. Some have
middle mile, some have a railroad, some have
more make ready than others. Sure. Some have,
and the one thing you were talking about the,
the $20 and, and what, what you're paying with
that. We all have, we also have to pay. pole
connection fees yeah so when you're on that line
uh the wutc allows the washington utilities and
trades commission allows them to charge you a
certain amount of money to be on their infrastructure
now is that an ongoing charge or a one -time
fee no it's ongoing it is okay and that's one
of the ones right now we have i just give you
an idea i just wrote it signed off a check on
inland power and light on on a piece that has
Can't remember how many polls. 400 polls at $25
a month. Excuse me, $25 a year. So that check
was $10 ,000. And that helps them basically maintain
their polls. And we have joint use agreements.
We're on there. They're on there. And when you're
negotiating franchises with the city, are you
talking about the franchise agreements to use
the rights -of -way so that you can actually
get it to the home? Yes. Okay. Which, of course,
we all have familiarity with. All but one of
our cities didn't cost us a dime. Right, because
they see the value. We went back to the things,
back before Margie even came. I'm going to every
city council meeting and making the case that
here's what we're, and the economic benefit,
all of these things. And that's my sales. So
my old tire salesmanship was - And they can attract
all kinds of different types of businesses now
that they have high -speed cable, high -speed
fiber -optic cable. Those relationships. with
the people on those city councils that I, you
know, you want to know what I, that I cultivated
over the years, whether it be that people I knew
forever, different things like that. So I had
that ability to go in and, you know, and not
pat. breaking my arm, patting myself on the back,
but it was just things that I had. It's part
of the preparation. The other key to success
in life is relationships. We all know that. That's
exactly right, Paul, and it all kind of fit in.
We just went around one by one and got all those
things put together. established co -location
facilities, which is where the nuts and bolts
of all your network in one town. We're in the
bus garage in Elmira. We're in the back of the
clinic in Wilbur. We're in the waste treatment
plant. How much of all this did you do personally?
As far as meet with the city councils and figure
out where to put these different... All of it.
I'm a county commissioner. I mean, I did all...
You're doing 18 -hour days? What are you doing?
There was a lot of work to get it. And we're
still doing those things. We had eight... We
had four one -day teams calls with the homeowners
associations that are down on Lake Roosevelt,
letting them know we've met with them. They've
signed stuff. Now we're getting closer. We're
meeting with them on a regular basis. What's
going to happen? We have all the maps now to
give all those. And we're talking in that build
down there, we call it Wisbo 2, Washington State
Broadband Office number 2. We have about 1 ,300.
That's amazing. And so we're going to build,
and we're doing a lot of building for the future
down there. Our little towns are not growing
a lot, but that deal down Seven Bays along the
river, and that is growing. Yeah. So we're doing
a little bit of growth. Yeah, I know exactly
what you're talking about down there, and those
have been growing. Growing down there. So you're
taking it to the towns that you have in the county.
You're taking it down to maybe some of these
other areas. What if I'm just... you know bill
jones and i got my 2 000 acres of you know wheat
farm or cattle or whatever it is that i've got
in lincoln county because you guys got all kinds
of agriculture out there right you got livestock
you got dry land farming you got irrigated farming
uh and i mean and all kinds of stuff garbanzo
beans uh oh yeah yeah out there these days right
so what if i'm that guy and you can't see a neighbor
anywhere near me am i getting broadband you know
some some have Some have gotten some of that.
It depends on if you're in northern Lincoln County,
you're very familiar with the topography in north
Lincoln County. You hunt there and know what
that looks like. Then you come back up towards
Highway 2, and then the south end of our county
is pretty flat. So we have some fixed wireless
companies. that have done some stuff with, you
know, off of a tower, like tower, things like
that. We have the people that are T -Mobile hotspot.
And is all this part of your network? No, no,
no. This is just some things that other people,
you know, the thing is our citizens too. They're
not waiting. I mean, we, we, this is a thing.
Nobody's coming. You people were Starlink. Starlink's
a big player right now. And now it would make
sense in a really rural area like Lincoln County.
For sure. Cause that's, that may be the only
thing. And it's, it's work. It's working for
people, you know, some type of low earth orbit
or it's Amazon Leo. That's one. So that leads
then to the. This BEAD program, the Broadband
Equity and Deployment Federal Monies. There's
$1 .2 billion coming to the state of Washington
to build basically unserved people. Right. The
type of people that we're talking about right
now. In Lincoln County, we actually had four,
after two years of messing around, four project
areas, which are really the four. Kind of the
four corners. If you divided Lincoln County,
it's almost a square except for Lake Roosevelt.
Right. So both Amazon Leo and Inland Cellular,
which has quite a few cell phone towers in Lincoln
County, they both got a piece of that, of this
bead money coming to Lincoln County. So if you
can visualize, you're looking down and you see
the eight. Cities and towns. We've got a middle
mile between Harrington and Sprague to get Sprague
lit up. Oh, yeah. One between Wilbur and Elmira,
get Elmira lit up. Right. Then we're going down
from Creston down to Hawk Creek and on down to
Deer Meadows and Seven Bays to get that piece.
That's the one we're going to light up with the
people that are down there on Lake Roosevelt.
Now, where's Heartline and Cooley City here?
Okay. You're in Grant County now. Oh, those are
part of it. Yes. Okay. And Grant County PUD.
They've been building broadband for 25 years.
Back in the day, Chelan. Yeah, that's a big deal
down there. They were one of the first to really
do that from a PUD point of view. That's exactly
right, Paul. And what they've done the last few
years, they got all the towns. They got all that
stuff all done because they control, they have
the power, they're the power company. So they
did all that stuff. Then they started doing a
little bit of, then they got out to Coulee City.
They got out to Heartline. They got, you know,
they got that. Now they, they kind of sat back,
took a deep breath and then started drawing out
small projects in all the other rural areas.
And they've been tackling those and they've tackled
over the last. Three years, about 20 rural projects.
We're talking like Wilson Creek? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And stuff like that. So that's what
they're doing. So we're going to... I think we're
testing people's knowledge of the geography of
Washington. Of eastern Washington and some of
the things out there. And the bead project with
Amazon Leo and what people have with Starlink
and things like that. And Inland Cellular with
their fixed wireless. Those are the solutions
we're going to try to get to those really hard
areas. We have cell phone towers out there we
call green elevators. That's true. And we have
over 100 of them in Lincoln County. That's true.
And many of them already have some fixed wireless
things there. Then we have some cell phone towers.
Our next piece, when we get done, into next year
we hope a year from now we've got this infrastructure
built in lincoln county and hopefully the bead
money has come for these other pieces that we
can start working with we think there's an opportunity
to use some of the dark fiber now that's a kind
of one of those that lumens slash at &t a lot
of people don't know that that lumens sold a
whole bunch of their to AT &T. So there's a lot
of things going on in that realm right now that
we think there's a lot of that that's not being
used in Lincoln County. Well, yeah. I mean, Lincoln
is a good example. Kittitas and Grant are good
examples because you had Highway 2 and you had
I -90, right? And of course, there's the North
Cascades Highway and there's some other major
arterials. But that fiber got kind of put in
quietly. In a lot of areas. In a lot of areas
in the early 2000s. And there's a lot of, there's
dark strands in there. That are not being fully
utilized right now. That's exactly right. So
now it's back to, we have actually signed some
non -disclosure agreements with Lumens now, slash
AT &T, to find out. So you've got the old pot
lines, your telephone line copper. Which they.
They want to get rid of it too. Sure. But they're
not going to come back and put fiber in because
they can't afford to do that. Right. They're
the incumbent provider, but they get federal
money to get that telephone out to your house.
Right. And they've been doing it since Ma Bell
was alive. Sure. So that's a piece. But we think
exactly what you said, that there is that lumen
fiber. that is around and we know it's around
there and it's just what you said it's being
underutilized some they built on a under a contract
called touch america yeah that came there was
i remember 20 years ago i remember 20 25 years
ago so i think Margie, I just drive her nuts
because I start talking and thinking about this
stuff, and she goes, we've got a network to finish
building. And I'm trying to think out farther.
You're another 10 years ahead. Yeah, how do we
get to the rest of the citizens? It's about the
citizens of Lincoln County. That's what this
is about. I enjoy it. I know it's valuable to
our county because I've got people out there
now that live. You should see the addresses of
the people down at Seven Bays and Deer Meadows
that Margie said. sending damage waivers out
to. They live all over the western United States.
Yeah, because they're not living down there full
-time. No, no. And there are some beautiful homes
down there. So how can we, as a county, how can
we make it better for them? You know, we've done
a lot of things with those roads. I mean, we
have the most beautiful inland waterway that
you could ask for. Oh, beautiful. So how do we
then? that connectivity for them to be able to
come and live full -time or stay there. Yeah,
because eventually those neighborhoods may turn
into full -time residences. Way more full -time
people down there than we used to have anyway.
Yeah, and it has developed a lot over the years,
a lot. We need some other things down in that
area. But that's kind of how broadband has been
built out in Lincoln County. Well, Commissioner
Hutzel, it's a great story. And it's really kind
of an inspiring one, I think, for a lot of folks.
It just goes to show you that every project,
no matter how big, if you just break it down
into individual pieces and you start from the
very beginning, assess what you have, figure
out what you need, plan that out, and then start
looking for opportunities to get the resources
that you need. You know, $30 million all at one
time, that was probably a little unusual. We're
still spending some of it. Yeah, but you are.
And I don't know that everybody's going to have
that level of success right out of the gate.
But what you've done is not something that can't
be replicated with the right tools, with the
right energy, with someone who's committed to
getting it done just like you are. The stars
had to line up for it to do. And a lot of good
people to work with. We worked with some fabulous
people. We had never got this done. But with
really good preparation. But that was really
the piece. The stars tend to line up. That was
a real piece. A lot of groundwork was done. And
good people want to go to good projects. And
that's what we see when the contractors are bidding.
They come out and take a look, and they look
at the design, and they look at the people they're
dealing with. And yeah, we've had three contractors
out there, and all of them are chomping at the
bit for this. We're going to have it out in about
two weeks to bid on this. And we think that will
be very advantageous to us. Because the more
competition, the better. That's exact. And they're
all in Spokane, and they're all good people.
The only ones that have bid on it. because, yeah,
that's so, yeah. Well, Commissioner Hutzel, thanks
for joining me today. Paul, it's been a real
pleasure. My pleasure. It's so good to see you.
I hope that you'll come back and we can talk
about something else next time. Yeah, baseball.
Yeah. More baseball. That sounds good to me.
Or we could get into the tire business. I don't
know anything about the tire business, but I
do use tires on a regular basis. Yes, you do.
And everybody does. Well, thanks to our listeners
out there. Thanks to the county commissioners
who are regular listeners for everything that
you do every day in your counties. We can't tell
you how much we appreciate the commitment that
you have to your communities, as well as to the
statewide community here at WASAC. Hopefully
you can join us for our next chat. We look forward
to that. And until then, take good care. Thanks
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