WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.259 people think i don't love session but this is 00:00:02.259 --> 00:00:09.240 actually me happy rage is my happy place does 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:14.039 that make me weird welcome to county connection 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:16.460 the official podcast of the Washington State 00:00:16.460 --> 00:00:18.879 Association of Counties, where we dive into the 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:20.859 legislative issues shaping the future of our 00:00:20.859 --> 00:00:23.739 communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure 00:00:23.739 --> 00:00:26.660 to elections, we'll break down what's happening 00:00:26.660 --> 00:00:29.440 in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:32.579 the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged, 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:35.520 and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:39.820 39 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the 00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:43.329 County Connection podcast, the number one. county 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:46.070 -related podcast in Washington state. I don't 00:00:46.070 --> 00:00:47.549 know if that's true, but we're going with it. 00:00:47.750 --> 00:00:49.710 This is the official podcast of the Washington 00:00:49.710 --> 00:00:51.409 State Association of Counties. I'm your host, 00:00:51.509 --> 00:00:53.390 Paul Jewell, and government relations director 00:00:53.390 --> 00:00:57.689 for the association. We are right at the end 00:00:57.689 --> 00:01:00.469 of the third week of session. Kelsey's back. 00:01:01.289 --> 00:01:03.509 Good to see you, Kelsey. It's kind of a dreary 00:01:03.509 --> 00:01:06.590 gray day out there, but it's bright and sunny 00:01:06.590 --> 00:01:08.950 here in the studio. Of course it is. I'm happy 00:01:08.950 --> 00:01:11.530 to be here, Paul. You bet, yeah. It wouldn't 00:01:11.530 --> 00:01:14.390 be any other way unless it were you, of course. 00:01:14.549 --> 00:01:16.430 So I don't know what that means. I think you 00:01:16.430 --> 00:01:18.930 got that backwards, but... Yeah, it doesn't matter. 00:01:19.069 --> 00:01:24.849 Let's just plow forward, shall we? And by plow 00:01:24.849 --> 00:01:28.430 forward, I mean work. That was a little Easter 00:01:28.430 --> 00:01:30.609 egg into what we're going to talk about today. 00:01:31.409 --> 00:01:35.170 So what is it? Well, we're here to talk about 00:01:35.170 --> 00:01:38.569 agritourism. Agritourism. How do you spell that? 00:01:38.950 --> 00:01:43.989 A -G -R -I -T -O -U -R -I -S -M. So agriculture, 00:01:44.329 --> 00:01:47.810 it's a portmanteau of agriculture and tourism. 00:01:47.950 --> 00:01:50.689 Squish them together. Portmanteau. I haven't 00:01:50.689 --> 00:01:52.890 heard that in a long time. You're welcome. Yeah. 00:01:53.709 --> 00:01:57.670 I'd like to take a poll of our listeners to see 00:01:57.670 --> 00:01:59.890 how many have actually ever heard that term in 00:01:59.890 --> 00:02:03.370 their entire life. I think you wildly underestimate 00:02:03.370 --> 00:02:07.269 our listeners. Maybe so. Maybe so. Listeners, 00:02:07.269 --> 00:02:10.030 you can take that up with Paul. Yeah. Well, we'll 00:02:10.030 --> 00:02:12.830 try to get that poll online. Probably not. So 00:02:12.830 --> 00:02:16.949 agritourism. Yes, sir. You said it was the combination. 00:02:17.710 --> 00:02:21.389 of the two words coming together. So I assume 00:02:21.389 --> 00:02:23.370 people are going out to farms and they're doing 00:02:23.370 --> 00:02:26.370 stuff. Part of the challenge around this, and 00:02:26.370 --> 00:02:29.250 we've seen a lot of conversation and a lot of 00:02:29.250 --> 00:02:35.110 legislative ideas and attempts to regulate, constrain, 00:02:35.110 --> 00:02:38.550 or enable different types of agritourism. And 00:02:38.550 --> 00:02:40.090 part of the challenge in all of that is that 00:02:40.090 --> 00:02:43.150 agritourism is a very broad term. So it could 00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:46.080 include pretty much... Any use of agricultural 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:50.280 land that isn't farming or growing an agricultural 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.759 product. But it's supposed to be in the spirit 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.810 of agritourism. It's a use that isn't exactly 00:02:56.810 --> 00:02:59.110 farming, but it's supposed to be a use that supports 00:02:59.110 --> 00:03:01.449 continued agricultural use of the land. So it's 00:03:01.449 --> 00:03:05.650 supportive of the traditional farming and whether 00:03:05.650 --> 00:03:09.189 that's livestock farming or crop farming or whatever 00:03:09.189 --> 00:03:12.349 it may be. Farming adjacent. So give us some 00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:14.629 examples of what an agritourism type facility 00:03:14.629 --> 00:03:19.189 might be. So we've heard stories from members 00:03:19.189 --> 00:03:21.250 and others around the legislature of everything 00:03:21.250 --> 00:03:26.819 from roadhouse -style, quote -unquote, tasting 00:03:26.819 --> 00:03:28.979 rooms that are at the end of the county road, 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:33.280 but things like tasting rooms at a winery or 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:38.479 corn mazes or pumpkin patches or farm stands. 00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:43.719 Oh, gosh. By farm stand, you mean like a fruit 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:45.939 stand or a vegetable stand? Fruits, vegetables, 00:03:46.060 --> 00:03:49.560 sometimes value -added products. Jams, jellies, 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.300 maybe honey. Maybe even livestock products. Livestock 00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:54.860 products, right? So you've got your beef sticks 00:03:54.860 --> 00:03:57.020 and your teriyaki and your... Cheese and your 00:03:57.020 --> 00:04:00.379 milk. Exactly. Your soap and all those sorts 00:04:00.379 --> 00:04:01.599 of things. Yep, your goat milk soap and all that 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.719 kind of good stuff. It also includes things like 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:08.319 petting zoo style, come and hang out with the 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:13.280 animals, goat yoga. Goat yoga, that's not my 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.829 favorite. I actually really enjoy yoga and really 00:04:16.829 --> 00:04:19.209 enjoy goats, but I do not enjoy goat yoga. So 00:04:19.209 --> 00:04:21.069 I'm with you on that. The combination together. 00:04:21.189 --> 00:04:23.129 I prefer them separate. Have you actually tried 00:04:23.129 --> 00:04:30.509 goat yoga? No, because I know goats. So goats, 00:04:30.670 --> 00:04:34.449 you know I'm going to go there, right? So by 00:04:34.449 --> 00:04:37.610 you saying, I know goats, what you're saying 00:04:37.610 --> 00:04:44.110 is they're not particularly, shall we say, particular 00:04:44.110 --> 00:04:47.810 about where they might drop certain things that 00:04:47.810 --> 00:04:52.389 come from their bodies. I think you mean their 00:04:52.389 --> 00:04:56.009 butts, but that actually wasn't even my concern, 00:04:56.129 --> 00:04:58.149 but I appreciate you going there immediately. 00:04:58.370 --> 00:05:00.410 My thought was just that goats aren't particularly 00:05:00.410 --> 00:05:05.930 focused, meditative, athletic, organized. So 00:05:05.930 --> 00:05:08.089 when you put them in the middle of a yoga class, 00:05:08.350 --> 00:05:10.769 they cause chaos, right? And especially because 00:05:10.769 --> 00:05:12.689 usually... when we're talking about goat yoga, 00:05:12.750 --> 00:05:14.490 we're talking about baby goats, right? Like cute 00:05:14.490 --> 00:05:16.149 little goats that people want to hang out with 00:05:16.149 --> 00:05:18.930 and cuddle, but they're still going to, you know, 00:05:18.949 --> 00:05:20.230 they're going to run into you. They're going 00:05:20.230 --> 00:05:22.170 to climb on you. They're going to nibble on your 00:05:22.170 --> 00:05:24.810 hair or your clothes or whatever. So it's just, 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:27.649 it's not my cup of tea. Okay. I feel like we 00:05:27.649 --> 00:05:29.389 could talk about that for a while, but we probably 00:05:29.389 --> 00:05:32.569 shouldn't. So let's keep going on agritourism. 00:05:32.589 --> 00:05:35.050 But if anybody's interested in a goat yoga class 00:05:35.050 --> 00:05:36.870 in Olympia, I'm happy to refer you. So please 00:05:36.870 --> 00:05:38.850 feel free to reach out. Yeah. Reach out directly 00:05:38.850 --> 00:05:42.240 to Kelsey for goat yoga. Back to agritourism. 00:05:46.220 --> 00:05:48.899 It could be a lot of different things. Yes. Because 00:05:48.899 --> 00:05:51.560 farms are varied. What happens in kind of rural 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.699 areas are varied. You could have a cidery, for 00:05:54.699 --> 00:05:57.000 instance, where you've got an orchard and, you 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.379 know, they're making cider from the apples themselves, 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.379 some kind of either hard cider or just regular 00:06:02.379 --> 00:06:04.480 cider, and they might want to open a tasting 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.540 room. Same thing could be for a winery that's 00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:09.600 got a vineyard. Same thing could be for a hop 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.600 farm that maybe wants to make their own beer, 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:18.550 for instance. Or a petting zoo type of operation 00:06:18.550 --> 00:06:21.850 with farm animals. You know, a farm stand we've 00:06:21.850 --> 00:06:26.329 kind of mentioned. I know there are also like 00:06:26.329 --> 00:06:29.610 barn dance kind of facilities out there. There 00:06:29.610 --> 00:06:34.750 are farm to table hosted dinners. Wedding venues, 00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:37.470 event venues. Yeah, different things like that. 00:06:38.670 --> 00:06:41.430 How do we know which of these are actually agritourism 00:06:41.430 --> 00:06:45.290 and which ones are really just a repurposing 00:06:45.290 --> 00:06:50.009 of the land for another use? Therein lies the 00:06:50.009 --> 00:06:53.829 complication. Okay. Creating a set framework 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:58.610 around – from how you define agritourism to what 00:06:58.610 --> 00:07:02.009 is necessary to enable that to coexist with agriculture 00:07:02.009 --> 00:07:05.310 on the same – potentially the same landscape. 00:07:05.449 --> 00:07:08.319 Right. That's really where it becomes complicated. 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:13.339 Everything from issues of noise and dust and, 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.399 you know, kind of the normal stuff that comes 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.660 along with operating equipment in an agricultural 00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:21.379 setting or on a, you know, for an agricultural 00:07:21.379 --> 00:07:25.680 purpose to things like, are there appropriate... 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:30.009 sanitation facilities? Yeah, for public health 00:07:30.009 --> 00:07:32.470 concerns. Exactly. Is there sufficient parking? 00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:34.230 So if you're going to open up your venue for, 00:07:34.290 --> 00:07:36.529 you know, say crowd to people, do you have all 00:07:36.529 --> 00:07:38.189 these other things taken care of and addressed 00:07:38.189 --> 00:07:40.170 like you would in any other commercial operation? 00:07:40.750 --> 00:07:43.569 Correct. If you have some, if your agritourism 00:07:43.569 --> 00:07:45.949 business is something where large numbers of 00:07:45.949 --> 00:07:47.910 people are coming. especially if they're staying 00:07:47.910 --> 00:07:50.170 for quite a while, you're going to need a different 00:07:50.170 --> 00:07:52.350 level of infrastructure and different types of 00:07:52.350 --> 00:07:54.310 things in place to enable that than you might 00:07:54.310 --> 00:07:57.790 for, say, the farm stand we talked about before, 00:07:57.889 --> 00:07:59.389 where somebody is just swinging through to pick 00:07:59.389 --> 00:08:02.410 up some vegetables and a quart of cider or something. 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:04.850 And that's, again, going to be different from 00:08:04.850 --> 00:08:07.730 what you might need to enable a pumpkin patch 00:08:07.730 --> 00:08:09.850 and corn maze in the fall or something like that. 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:12.019 So it strikes me that when we're talking about 00:08:12.019 --> 00:08:13.519 rural lands, we're talking about agricultural 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.720 lands, and we're thinking about maybe the scope 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.019 and breadth of what an agritourism operation 00:08:19.019 --> 00:08:22.779 could or could not be. You know, it could be 00:08:22.779 --> 00:08:26.579 something very small, right, and has very little 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:29.259 impact like a farm stand. Or it could be something 00:08:29.259 --> 00:08:31.600 that has a lot of impact where you need to consider 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:34.039 everything from, like we were talking about, 00:08:34.139 --> 00:08:37.059 kind of public safety and public health to traffic 00:08:37.059 --> 00:08:39.139 impacts. You know, rural roads are not built 00:08:39.139 --> 00:08:42.559 to house large commercial activities. They're 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:45.379 not built for a lot of average daily traffic. 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:49.019 They are built to move products to market and 00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:51.019 equipment from field to field. And how does that 00:08:51.019 --> 00:08:54.259 get? You know, how can that be compatible with 00:08:54.259 --> 00:08:57.080 some sort of an event center, for instance? It 00:08:57.080 --> 00:09:00.019 also strikes me that farms are not necessarily 00:09:00.019 --> 00:09:05.320 designed to be accessible to the population, 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.600 right? Whether you're able -bodied or not, there 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.539 could be some challenges there. And not only 00:09:11.539 --> 00:09:14.679 that, but, you know, most of the farms that I've 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:18.320 been to, when you think about kind of how they're 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.629 laid out and how the operations work, There's 00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:24.250 a lot of risks out there. Farming is not a safe 00:09:24.250 --> 00:09:29.070 activity, right? There are injuries on the farm 00:09:29.070 --> 00:09:32.590 all the time, either from equipment or from livestock 00:09:32.590 --> 00:09:36.350 or from... you know, any other multitude of hazards 00:09:36.350 --> 00:09:38.289 that are out there. You know, if you think about 00:09:38.289 --> 00:09:40.210 the fencing materials that they use, right? Think 00:09:40.210 --> 00:09:42.470 about the irrigation pipes that could be laying 00:09:42.470 --> 00:09:44.990 around. Think about the fact that almost every 00:09:44.990 --> 00:09:47.049 farm that I've ever been to that's at least a 00:09:47.049 --> 00:09:48.830 legacy farm that's been around for a while has 00:09:48.830 --> 00:09:52.350 a boneyard of old equipment and parts that they 00:09:52.350 --> 00:09:55.149 keep on hand just in case, you know, something 00:09:55.149 --> 00:09:57.129 breaks down and they need to salvage, right? 00:09:57.350 --> 00:09:59.409 I mean, there's just many, many, many, many things 00:09:59.409 --> 00:10:02.029 out there that... people could trip over, fall 00:10:02.029 --> 00:10:07.070 into, get cut by, get run over by, etc. And there's 00:10:07.070 --> 00:10:08.909 a lot of consideration that needs to be made 00:10:08.909 --> 00:10:12.929 if you're thinking about bringing an agritourism 00:10:12.929 --> 00:10:15.269 type operation to that sort of environment as 00:10:15.269 --> 00:10:18.330 well. Correct. Yeah. So what's the legislature? 00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:20.450 You mentioned that there's been some attempts 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:26.009 by the legislature to look into this. What are 00:10:26.009 --> 00:10:28.830 they trying to do? Are they trying to regulate 00:10:28.830 --> 00:10:30.870 it? Are they trying to allow it? Are they trying 00:10:30.870 --> 00:10:34.570 to, I don't know. What are some of the bills, 00:10:34.629 --> 00:10:36.110 what are some of the proposals that they've got 00:10:36.110 --> 00:10:38.370 in front of us? Well, I'd say the answer to whether 00:10:38.370 --> 00:10:40.690 they're trying to regulate or allow it is yes. 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:44.990 Oh, yes to both. Yes. So you've got bills that 00:10:44.990 --> 00:10:48.929 are trying to maybe stop certain things? Yes. 00:10:49.110 --> 00:10:52.210 And you have bills that are trying to allow certain 00:10:52.210 --> 00:10:57.559 things. Correct. For example, one of the threads 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:04.440 that is always part of this conversation is what 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:08.080 is an appropriate way to support farmers in staying 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:10.500 on farms? We know that that is a challenge in 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:12.860 Washington and everywhere else. We want to see 00:11:12.860 --> 00:11:16.460 farmers be able to stay on their land. In some 00:11:16.460 --> 00:11:19.139 cases, that is going to require them having supplemental 00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:22.519 sources of income to perhaps whatever. you know, 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.860 typical agricultural use they have had on the 00:11:24.860 --> 00:11:27.759 farm. Creating those options and opportunities 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.019 for them can be really helpful in terms of keeping 00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:33.440 them on their land. So from that perspective, 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.919 legislators, especially in more rural communities, 00:11:37.059 --> 00:11:39.360 are trying to enable those uses, right, to find 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.500 ways to support their farming communities and 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:44.080 staying on their land. On the other side of the 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:49.039 balance sheet are the litany of challenges and 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.000 issues that we've kind of talked through, whether 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.019 it's parking or infrastructure or neighbor complaints, 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:59.039 noise, dust, all the things that can be a challenge 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:03.960 and may require regulation are kind of what we 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:06.440 see as balancing out the conversation of how 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:08.919 do we create opportunities for those farmers, 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:11.679 but how do we do it in a way that keeps communities 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:18.200 safe and Minimizes conflicts between those two 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.360 uses. Do we have any idea? I think two questions 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:25.440 pop into mind right off the bat as you were talking. 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:29.639 Do we have any idea how many agricultural producers, 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.500 farmers are interested in pursuing some level 00:12:32.500 --> 00:12:37.019 of agritourism to supplement their income or 00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:40.159 transition some of their facilities? Do we have 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:43.580 any idea at all? I don't have a number for you, 00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:47.639 but my sense is a lot, both just in what I've 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:50.519 seen here in the local community and how farmers 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.940 operate here in Thurston County and what we're 00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:54.840 hearing in testimony and what we're hearing from 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:59.820 legislators across the board is that farmers 00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:04.889 are looking for more options. We are interested 00:13:04.889 --> 00:13:06.950 in helping them do that, but again, want to do 00:13:06.950 --> 00:13:09.230 it in a way that's going to be safe and reasonable, 00:13:09.389 --> 00:13:11.750 can be planned for, and that we can make sure 00:13:11.750 --> 00:13:13.590 the infrastructure is in place to support not 00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:15.129 just the farmers, but the communities around 00:13:15.129 --> 00:13:17.250 them. There's been a trend in the agricultural 00:13:17.250 --> 00:13:20.950 industry over the last several decades where, 00:13:21.049 --> 00:13:22.669 you know, the smaller farmers kind of getting 00:13:22.669 --> 00:13:26.509 squeezed and the really big operations are continuing 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:28.490 to get bigger and bigger and bigger. These are 00:13:28.490 --> 00:13:30.490 the big commodity operations. You know, if you 00:13:30.490 --> 00:13:34.070 think about the giant fields of corn or the giant 00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:36.309 fields of wheat or whatever like that, oftentimes 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:41.149 it's fewer farmers and bigger corporations having 00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:43.669 bigger chunks of land, and there's a lot less 00:13:43.669 --> 00:13:46.009 of the smaller kind of farmer out there that 00:13:46.009 --> 00:13:49.909 used to be the norm, right? I was talking to 00:13:49.909 --> 00:13:52.690 a dairy farmer just a couple of years ago, and 00:13:52.690 --> 00:13:54.210 he was talking about in the area there used to 00:13:54.210 --> 00:13:56.409 be, I think, like 16. dairies and now there's 00:13:56.409 --> 00:13:59.970 six they're producing actually more milk uh than 00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:02.809 the 16 were before yes as far as total volume 00:14:02.809 --> 00:14:04.809 but that must make it really hard for the smaller 00:14:04.809 --> 00:14:06.929 farmer is it is it really kind of smaller ones 00:14:06.929 --> 00:14:09.629 that are uh the more specialized or boutique 00:14:09.629 --> 00:14:11.629 ones that are looking at this option more so 00:14:11.629 --> 00:14:14.460 than the bigger corporate outfits That feels 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:16.860 like a bit of a leading question, Paul, but I 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.980 think, yes, you're seeing it a lot from the small 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:21.139 ones and the mid -sized farmers, right? So perhaps 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:24.419 not Dairy Gold, for example, although even Dairy 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:26.299 Gold is a consortium, we could get into that. 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:31.539 Sure. But I think farms of all sizes are looking 00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:36.860 for additional revenue streams. So my next question 00:14:36.860 --> 00:14:38.879 then that I was thinking about when you were 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:43.360 describing all of that was we kind of talked 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.220 about, this wide range of what agritourism could 00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:49.379 be? Has anybody really tried to define exactly 00:14:49.379 --> 00:14:51.919 what it is? So for instance, you know, from say 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:57.340 pumpkin patches to event venues, is there a wide 00:14:57.340 --> 00:15:00.220 agreement that all of that, if it's on a farm, 00:15:00.259 --> 00:15:03.419 is agritourism or is there a disagreement? Hard 00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:06.139 question to answer because I think the understanding 00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:09.019 seems to be that there are a wide variety of 00:15:09.019 --> 00:15:12.529 uses. Once you get out to the margins. of how 00:15:12.529 --> 00:15:17.110 big, how many people, is it something that operates 00:15:17.110 --> 00:15:19.429 all year long, or is it seasonal, or those kinds 00:15:19.429 --> 00:15:21.610 of questions, I'd say there is debate about what 00:15:21.610 --> 00:15:25.269 is appropriate and what is not appropriate under 00:15:25.269 --> 00:15:28.990 that definition of agritourism. So that's part 00:15:28.990 --> 00:15:32.129 of the conversation that we are very much committed 00:15:32.129 --> 00:15:35.070 to remaining a part of as we've seen bills move 00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:36.769 through the legislature that are trying to get 00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:39.730 at different pieces of this, but without necessarily 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:43.909 setting a framework that could be used statewide 00:15:43.909 --> 00:15:47.190 to understand what are the different needs of 00:15:47.190 --> 00:15:49.450 these different types of businesses? Do we treat 00:15:49.450 --> 00:15:51.929 businesses, agribusinesses of different sizes 00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:54.750 differently? And if so, what does that mean? 00:15:54.909 --> 00:15:57.250 What does it look like? How do we do that in 00:15:57.250 --> 00:16:00.190 a way that is fair to those producers? But it 00:16:00.190 --> 00:16:02.970 sounds like it's not well defined anywhere in 00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:07.019 the law. Correct. Okay. So that just by itself 00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:10.340 kind of creates a lot of gray area that's just 00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:12.360 going to be inviting for all kinds of different 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.480 proposals. Exactly. Okay. So in 2025, we saw 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.360 a couple of different proposals. Some of them 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.070 are focused on agritourism. at least labeled 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:24.250 as agritourism. We also see things that poke 00:16:24.250 --> 00:16:27.029 at incidental uses on agricultural land. Yeah, 00:16:27.049 --> 00:16:28.909 I remember some of those bills. Which gets at 00:16:28.909 --> 00:16:32.070 the same idea, but is just sort of a different 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:36.690 way in. So in 2025, Senator Warnick was very 00:16:36.690 --> 00:16:38.610 involved in that conversation. She had a bill 00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:42.250 that was called Promoting Agritourism. We also 00:16:42.250 --> 00:16:46.490 saw Senator Leis bring in a bill about open space 00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:49.149 incidental use, which again was... kind of a 00:16:49.149 --> 00:16:51.929 different way of poking at some of these same... 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:54.049 Yeah, from a tax classification point of view. 00:16:54.169 --> 00:16:57.710 Issues and problems. Yeah. This year in 20... 00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:00.549 So that's sort of where this conversation has 00:17:00.549 --> 00:17:03.629 been during this biennial cycle. This year in 00:17:03.629 --> 00:17:06.789 2026, there's a couple of bills that I just wanted 00:17:06.789 --> 00:17:09.890 to highlight for folks. One is not specifically 00:17:09.890 --> 00:17:13.490 an agritourism bill, but Senator Mazzal, who 00:17:13.490 --> 00:17:18.109 himself is a farmer and is one of very few active... 00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:21.450 farmers that are in the legislature. I think 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:24.589 we've got three, if I'm remembering correctly. 00:17:24.890 --> 00:17:27.170 I don't know for sure. So it's not many, right? 00:17:27.250 --> 00:17:30.089 We don't have a lot of legislators who, when 00:17:30.089 --> 00:17:32.549 they leave Olympia, are driving back to the farm 00:17:32.549 --> 00:17:35.269 and continuing to try and produce agricultural 00:17:35.269 --> 00:17:39.450 products. Senator Mazzal has a lot of credibility 00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:42.390 in this space for exactly that reason. He has 00:17:42.390 --> 00:17:45.509 put forth a bill, Senate Bill 6104, which is 00:17:45.509 --> 00:17:48.509 called Supporting Agriculture. And what it is 00:17:48.509 --> 00:17:53.470 doing is trying to require essentially agricultural 00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:57.730 impact statements when... agricultural land is 00:17:57.730 --> 00:18:00.329 pulled out of agricultural use for one reason 00:18:00.329 --> 00:18:02.430 or another, whether land is transferring hands 00:18:02.430 --> 00:18:05.529 or somebody is going to develop a parcel of it. 00:18:05.609 --> 00:18:08.250 So he's got that's not the only thing the bill 00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:10.950 does, but his bill is interesting to me into 00:18:10.950 --> 00:18:14.349 this conversation because what he is doing there 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:19.430 is saying, let's keep closer track of where how 00:18:19.430 --> 00:18:22.630 agricultural land is being used. where it is 00:18:22.630 --> 00:18:28.089 being lost and what we can do to, to beneficially 00:18:28.089 --> 00:18:30.710 impact that situation. Does he define what an 00:18:30.710 --> 00:18:33.210 agricultural impact statement is and what he's 00:18:33.210 --> 00:18:35.490 trying to actually, I mean, besides, you know, 00:18:35.509 --> 00:18:37.990 what you said, it sounds like he's trying to 00:18:37.990 --> 00:18:40.650 just kind of better understand how things are 00:18:40.650 --> 00:18:43.009 changing maybe in the landscape, but does, does 00:18:43.009 --> 00:18:46.509 he kind of define exactly what needs to be in 00:18:46.509 --> 00:18:48.670 that and who's responsible for putting it together? 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.579 He does. He defines the agricultural impact statement 00:18:54.579 --> 00:18:58.319 fairly closely, which I'm not going to read to 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.079 folks, but they are welcome to check out. And 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.539 then the agricultural impact statement would 00:19:05.539 --> 00:19:09.079 be done by the jurisdiction. So the county or 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:12.519 the city? Correct. Okay. I think it's fair to 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:14.380 assume most times it would be the county itself. 00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:17.170 because there's not going to be a lot of farmland 00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:18.589 in cities. Not a ton of city farms. There's a 00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:22.170 few out there, but right, not very many. So if 00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:27.130 the land is converted to another use, it would 00:19:27.130 --> 00:19:29.369 probably be through some sort of platting process. 00:19:30.109 --> 00:19:33.609 So I assume a county or city could require that 00:19:33.609 --> 00:19:35.670 as part of their application that that analysis 00:19:35.670 --> 00:19:38.609 was performed. So that way it wouldn't necessarily 00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:41.349 fall on the backs of the taxpayers to actually 00:19:41.349 --> 00:19:43.589 do it, but whoever is proposing the development. 00:19:44.139 --> 00:19:48.700 Okay. Interesting. That was Senate Bill... 6104. 00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:50.920 Okay. And I think there's a few others, right? 00:19:51.059 --> 00:19:52.720 There's one other one that I really wanted to 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:57.859 talk about today, which is House Bill 2129, fortifying 00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:01.400 agritourism. That is one that... Fortifying. 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:04.059 Fortifying. That's a strong word. It is a strong 00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:08.779 word. And that bill was brought by our friend, 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.910 Representative Lowe, and... We appreciate his 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:13.789 work on that issue, of course, and appreciate 00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:17.549 that he is doing some good work on behalf of 00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:21.349 his constituents. Representative Lowe, of course, 00:20:21.390 --> 00:20:23.849 is a council member from Snohomish County. Exactly. 00:20:23.849 --> 00:20:26.170 So he's near and dear to the county's family, 00:20:26.269 --> 00:20:28.930 and we always appreciate his work. We testified 00:20:28.930 --> 00:20:33.130 other on that bill and shared. Essentially, the 00:20:33.130 --> 00:20:35.009 conversation that we've been having here that 00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:39.690 we do think that there is a need to have some 00:20:39.690 --> 00:20:42.430 clear definitions and cleaner definitions, some 00:20:42.430 --> 00:20:45.250 clear expectations for what businesses of different 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:48.289 sizes are going to be expected to do to mitigate 00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:51.150 impacts on the surrounding communities, for example. 00:20:52.150 --> 00:20:55.049 But that we need that conversation to move forward. 00:20:55.970 --> 00:20:58.750 Representative Lowe's bill, very well intentioned, 00:20:58.750 --> 00:21:02.640 but would sort of. open things up even more to 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.500 permit more of these or to allow more of these 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:07.519 businesses to exist. And we have some concerns 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.200 about what that would look like, especially absent 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.200 those guardrails and framework and specific definition 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.180 that we discussed. Why did he title it Fortifying 00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:22.440 Agritourism? I don't know. I think he titled 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:24.680 it that way because he's trying to make a strong 00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:27.099 statement. And that's strong language to say, 00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:30.220 we need to do something to support farmers and 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:33.140 producers. We are not doing that right now. And 00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:34.920 we need to take action. And I think that's what 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.420 he's trying to spawn is that affirmative action 00:21:37.420 --> 00:21:39.880 in the direction of how do we keep farmers on 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:41.819 their land and keep them doing what it is they 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:44.809 do best. When you say fortifying, it almost seems 00:21:44.809 --> 00:21:46.690 to me like he's trying to really protect that. 00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:47.910 And that's what I'm getting from what you're 00:21:47.910 --> 00:21:52.710 saying is, from what I'm hearing you say, it 00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:55.410 feels like the intention of the bill is really 00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:58.329 to put in a lot of protections for agritourism 00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:00.650 versus some of the other bills we talked about 00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:04.029 that want to maybe regulate agritourism. Correct. 00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:07.049 Okay. Okay. All right. Well, where is this going 00:22:07.049 --> 00:22:10.089 to go, do you think? I mean, you mentioned that 00:22:10.089 --> 00:22:15.039 we didn't necessarily... support strongly Representative 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:17.680 Lowe's bill, and we're hopeful that maybe it 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:19.519 would move forward so that some other conversations 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.200 could. Where do you think this goes in the future? 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:24.460 So we've had a great conversation with Senator 00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:28.559 Warnick about continuing, about having a dedicated 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:31.220 conversation and actually dedicating some funding 00:22:31.220 --> 00:22:33.519 to bringing together stakeholders to talk about 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:35.900 what does a reasonable framework look like? How 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:38.079 do we define these things and what is our way 00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:40.720 forward? So we're really excited about engaging 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.140 in that conversation. in the interim and hopefully 00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:47.220 coming back next year rather than having a variety 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:49.500 of these bills that are all kind of trying to 00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:50.759 get at this problem. Just here and there and 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:52.980 everywhere. Right. Rather than a piecemeal approach, 00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:57.430 having a focused strategy. To say, you know, 00:22:57.430 --> 00:22:59.009 here's what we're going to do to really support 00:22:59.009 --> 00:23:01.049 these folks that I think we all want to support. 00:23:01.190 --> 00:23:04.210 Okay. Okay. Well, I've seen that proviso, as 00:23:04.210 --> 00:23:07.430 you know, and let's hope that that actually makes 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:09.710 it into the budget. WASAC would actually take 00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:13.710 the lead on that process to develop that recommendation. 00:23:13.829 --> 00:23:17.809 But at the end, we would have a focused. kind 00:23:17.809 --> 00:23:20.430 of holistic approach that would do some fundamental 00:23:20.430 --> 00:23:22.529 things, right? Like define what agritourism is 00:23:22.529 --> 00:23:25.849 and what it's not and figure out, okay, how do 00:23:25.849 --> 00:23:27.950 we make sure that these are the things, since 00:23:27.950 --> 00:23:30.130 we've decided these are the things that it is, 00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:32.250 how do we protect them? How do we make sure that 00:23:32.250 --> 00:23:35.769 they can be on the landscape in a way that's 00:23:35.769 --> 00:23:38.130 appropriate, right? That considers all kind of 00:23:38.130 --> 00:23:41.930 the risks and the roads and the traffic and all 00:23:41.930 --> 00:23:43.670 these other impacts, the public safety, the public 00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:45.859 health that we were talking about before. We're 00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:49.519 really planting a seed here. Very good. You're 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.759 welcome. That was excellent. Well, hopefully 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.160 it'll grow into something that... Why do you 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.200 keep doing this to me? The last podcast, I couldn't... 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.420 We're going to reap the benefits in 2027. Oh 00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:02.559 my gosh. I feel like that was a softball. That 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:07.660 was a softball. Kelsey, you outshine me once 00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:11.480 again in the play on words and the puns. I'm 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:13.240 going to have to get a little sharper. I'm not 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:15.400 bad at it, but I need some time to think about 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.640 it. Which this medium does not necessarily lend 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:20.220 itself to. No, it doesn't, because you've got 00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:24.380 to be quick witter. Oh, my gosh. This has been 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:27.769 Paul Jewell for The Washington Post. Anyways, 00:24:27.869 --> 00:24:30.130 Kelsey, always a pleasure. Thanks for coming 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:32.730 by. We've got to run because I know you've got 00:24:32.730 --> 00:24:34.589 some meetings and I've got some meetings. It's 00:24:34.589 --> 00:24:37.750 a big day today. We are looking forward to next 00:24:37.750 --> 00:24:40.470 week. What is next Wednesday? Next Wednesday 00:24:40.470 --> 00:24:43.650 is House of Origin Policy Committee Cutoff. That 00:24:43.650 --> 00:24:46.289 is one of the best days of the session. So we're 00:24:46.289 --> 00:24:48.170 looking forward to that. Until then, take care. 00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:53.089 Thank you so much. Thanks for tuning in to County 00:24:53.089 --> 00:24:55.450 Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing to 00:24:55.450 --> 00:24:57.630 us through your preferred podcasting app and 00:24:57.630 --> 00:25:00.250 following us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. 00:25:00.490 --> 00:25:02.670 And don't forget to join The Hub, your go -to 00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:04.650 source for the latest news and updates from the 00:25:04.650 --> 00:25:07.049 Washington State Association of Counties. Until 00:25:07.049 --> 00:25:09.309 next time, stay connected and stay informed.