WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.220 Professor Henslow is not afraid to wade into 00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:05.940 waters with confidence. Yeah, you want to talk 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:08.119 water policy? Things that he does not know about. 00:00:08.179 --> 00:00:09.880 How much water policy do you want to talk about? 00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:11.919 You speak with a lot of authority without any 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:19.250 depth. That's a little shallow. Can we have another 00:00:19.250 --> 00:00:21.750 water pun? I don't know. Yeah, we could. You 00:00:21.750 --> 00:00:24.230 know, you're drowning in policy. Get it? Yeah, 00:00:24.429 --> 00:00:27.269 it's all under the bridge. Oh, I feel a wave. 00:00:27.570 --> 00:00:29.589 You know what water policy does? It just flows 00:00:29.589 --> 00:00:36.130 right out. We could go on. No, no, we can't. 00:00:38.310 --> 00:00:40.719 Welcome to County Connection. the official podcast 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:43.020 of the Washington State Association of Counties, 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:45.399 where we dive into the legislative issues shaping 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:47.859 the future of our communities. From budgets to 00:00:47.859 --> 00:00:50.780 public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:53.420 break down what's happening in Olympia and how 00:00:53.420 --> 00:00:55.399 it impacts counties from across the Evergreen 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.520 State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:01.119 us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:07.260 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the County 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:10.150 Connection podcast. the official podcast of the 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.030 Washington State Association of Counties. I'm 00:01:12.030 --> 00:01:14.569 Paul Jewell, and I'm back in the studio with 00:01:14.569 --> 00:01:19.450 Brian Enslow. Brian is a policy consultant for 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:22.450 WASAC. He's been working on housing for the last 00:01:22.450 --> 00:01:24.670 couple of sessions, and we are in the thick of 00:01:24.670 --> 00:01:27.609 it right now in the legislative session. Brian, 00:01:27.629 --> 00:01:30.670 how are things going so far? I'm actually very 00:01:30.670 --> 00:01:32.810 positive about how things are going so far. Really? 00:01:32.969 --> 00:01:36.969 Yeah, I think, and I know we'll talk more about... 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:41.239 this in just a bit but it's early it is but it's 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:43.060 already late i was gonna say it's not really 00:01:43.060 --> 00:01:45.280 early because this is a short session right this 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:47.599 is the second session of the biennium so it's 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:52.200 only 60 days we are i think day 18 or 19 so we're 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.859 almost a third through i wouldn't consider that 00:01:56.250 --> 00:01:59.849 I wouldn't consider that early anymore. And we 00:01:59.849 --> 00:02:02.790 are looking at the cutoff for policy bills coming 00:02:02.790 --> 00:02:05.189 out of the House of Origin, I think next Wednesday, 00:02:05.390 --> 00:02:07.730 less than a week from now. Yeah, it's February 00:02:07.730 --> 00:02:10.949 4th. For those of you that are maybe not quite... 00:02:11.420 --> 00:02:14.759 as familiar with kind of the process of the legislature 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:16.900 i think we've talked about this in various forms 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:18.840 but i love quoting that it's you know if you've 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:20.919 read your federalist papers you know it's a system 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.300 designed to fail and it's a process by the way 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:27.080 of i mean the purest definition of process that's 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.439 for sure so um and you can always you kind of 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:31.659 get a sense of how many bills are introduced 00:02:31.659 --> 00:02:33.879 by like what's the most recent bill number so 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.650 we're in the like there's been a total of like 00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:40.490 1500 or more in the house and the Senate's around 00:02:40.490 --> 00:02:43.969 1200 or so. So just the second half, just for 00:02:43.969 --> 00:02:46.330 that's total. Yeah. But just for the second half, 00:02:46.389 --> 00:02:49.750 it's right around 1200 already. Okay. So, so, 00:02:49.789 --> 00:02:51.789 and what that means is like all of these are 00:02:51.789 --> 00:02:54.669 active, all of them. Um, the ones that have, 00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:57.990 um, moved or had hearings or something, you know, 00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:00.210 are clearly more active than maybe someone once 00:03:00.210 --> 00:03:02.949 from last year. Sure. But to the, to the, to 00:03:02.949 --> 00:03:05.180 the, To Paul's point, those 1 ,200 bills that 00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:07.000 were introduced, either pre -filed or introduced 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:11.800 this year, have to be heard and taken action 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:16.590 upon. We call it exact. Right. Out of their policy 00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:20.289 committee. By February 4th. And the wild thing 00:03:20.289 --> 00:03:21.870 in a special session. I feel like you're the 00:03:21.870 --> 00:03:23.889 host all of a sudden. I've taken over. You have 00:03:23.889 --> 00:03:26.729 taken over. Suddenly I've lost control of my 00:03:26.729 --> 00:03:29.370 own podcast. The wild thing, and I don't know 00:03:29.370 --> 00:03:31.189 how much he's going to leave in our interview 00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:33.689 when we're talking about waves and water, is 00:03:33.689 --> 00:03:36.509 in a short session, it just. Then each cutoff 00:03:36.509 --> 00:03:38.409 just comes like a wave. So it does. So the policy 00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:40.409 committee, which is the, or I'm sorry, the policy 00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:43.090 committee is the fourth. The fiscal cutoff is 00:03:43.090 --> 00:03:45.509 the ninth. That's right. Yeah. Five days, five 00:03:45.509 --> 00:03:48.050 days later. And one of those is a Sunday. And 00:03:48.050 --> 00:03:50.289 so, so, you know, they're not going to work that 00:03:50.289 --> 00:03:53.289 day. So really just for working days. Yeah. And 00:03:53.289 --> 00:03:57.129 the other thing is, I don't know how many policy 00:03:57.129 --> 00:03:59.129 committees are, but let's just say there's 15. 00:03:59.949 --> 00:04:01.430 Yeah. There's a lot. I don't know how many there 00:04:01.430 --> 00:04:04.219 are more than a dozen. Yeah. There's only. In 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:06.340 the Senate side, there's only one fiscal committee. 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.479 Right. In the House side, there's three. That's 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:10.780 right. But that is a recipe for a clogged funnel, 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:14.580 right? Because you have all these policy committees 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:17.259 just dumping out these bills that are... And 00:04:17.259 --> 00:04:19.459 most of them got to go through that fiscal committee 00:04:19.459 --> 00:04:21.759 at the bottom of that funnel before they can 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:23.759 actually get spit out onto the floor. Yeah, and 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:28.240 they're not cooked. No, not by any means. No, 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:30.060 the vast majority of them. Yeah, especially in 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.040 a short session like this. So, and then the other 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.800 thing you think of... is not a lot of money to 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:37.639 go around this year. Maybe you've heard. Maybe 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:39.360 you've talked about one. You know, we've talked 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.199 about that a little bit. In fact, if you go back 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:45.120 to some of the previous podcast recordings from 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.920 just last week, I'm having a hard time remembering, 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:50.160 but I think there might have been a mention or 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.040 two of a budget crisis. Yeah. So that's going 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:58.170 to impact the likelihood of. of those well -intentioned 00:04:58.170 --> 00:05:02.269 policy bills to continue in a destiny that would 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:04.170 move them forward in other words they're going 00:05:04.170 --> 00:05:07.009 to die yeah and if they're not going to die they're 00:05:07.009 --> 00:05:08.389 not going to die in that fiscal committee because 00:05:08.389 --> 00:05:09.889 it costs too much money they'll get neutered 00:05:09.889 --> 00:05:12.069 or something like that and then and so we're 00:05:12.069 --> 00:05:15.410 in this real we're in this um uh almost like 00:05:15.410 --> 00:05:17.709 this fulcrum of this hourglass if you think of 00:05:17.709 --> 00:05:20.269 like these 1200 new bills being introduced in 00:05:20.269 --> 00:05:23.550 two weeks where we our hair is on fire Well, 00:05:23.689 --> 00:05:27.170 yours might be. Our hair's on fire. For those 00:05:27.170 --> 00:05:29.509 of you who are listening, he gave me a funny 00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:32.110 look when he said that as if it was my turn to 00:05:32.110 --> 00:05:35.569 say something in response, which I did. Because 00:05:35.569 --> 00:05:39.389 I don't have that much hair. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate 00:05:39.389 --> 00:05:41.769 that. Oh, there's nothing like a male friend 00:05:41.769 --> 00:05:44.769 to really make you feel loved, appreciated, and 00:05:44.769 --> 00:05:47.230 seen. Yeah, just really tells you how great you 00:05:47.230 --> 00:05:50.689 are, how good you look. It really bolsters your 00:05:50.689 --> 00:05:52.509 self -esteem on a regular basis. Thanks, Brian. 00:05:52.670 --> 00:05:55.029 I appreciate that. Fulcrum. Back to my fulcrum, 00:05:55.069 --> 00:05:59.089 where it's thousands of bills that we're trying 00:05:59.089 --> 00:06:01.310 to read in two weeks, and then... In another 00:06:01.310 --> 00:06:02.730 two weeks from now, there's only going to be 00:06:02.730 --> 00:06:05.850 a handful that are really meaningful and really 00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:08.569 important. Yeah, the legit bills, we'll know 00:06:08.569 --> 00:06:11.990 actually, geez, in probably two weeks, we'll 00:06:11.990 --> 00:06:14.490 know kind of our work will be cut out for us, 00:06:14.529 --> 00:06:16.310 so they say, because we'll have a very clear 00:06:16.310 --> 00:06:19.589 picture of what still is viable and what's not. 00:06:19.930 --> 00:06:24.170 Yeah, and it's not that it gets easier. No, not 00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:27.100 by any means. But it becomes more known. Well, 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.180 and more intense in some ways, right? Because 00:06:29.180 --> 00:06:33.160 you are correct. The vast majority of these bills, 00:06:33.259 --> 00:06:36.480 unless they have been worked session over session 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:39.100 over session or a ton of work was done during 00:06:39.100 --> 00:06:41.079 the interim. None of them are really cooked. 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:43.160 So they're going to come out of their house of 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:44.779 origin. They're going to come off of the floor 00:06:44.779 --> 00:06:47.399 of origin. And that's when the work really begins. 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.199 And it has to begin in earnest because if they're 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.399 going to get fully cooked, fully baked, fully 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.480 developed, right, they've got a very short period 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.040 of time because I think it's only a couple of 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.459 more weeks. You've got, what, another week? There 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:01.920 is only one week between the floor cutoff and 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:03.220 then the next policy cutoff. The next policy 00:07:03.220 --> 00:07:05.339 cutoff. And then I think it's only three days 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:07.180 to the fiscal after that rather than five. Is 00:07:07.180 --> 00:07:10.620 that right? I can't remember, but it is tight. 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:14.259 And it all is leading to the end of session on 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:18.300 March 12th, which, you know, isn't that far away. 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:22.040 Interestingly enough, Paul, we have a bill. We 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.639 do. That's been fully cooked through the ringer, 00:07:25.660 --> 00:07:28.899 worked. And that's a housing bill. Yes, it is. 00:07:28.939 --> 00:07:33.240 Which just happens to be your specialty. That's 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.720 a generous connotation, but I'll take it. It 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:38.579 is my area of focus on behalf of the Association 00:07:38.579 --> 00:07:40.540 of Washington County. It's because I don't retaliate. 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.139 You insult me on the air. I compliment you on 00:07:44.139 --> 00:07:47.680 the air. I'm trying to show you, by example, 00:07:47.899 --> 00:07:51.600 how to treat a fellow colleague in a podcast. 00:07:51.699 --> 00:07:55.240 I hope it works. Paul is doing a nice job of 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:59.040 being an exemplar of how we should really demonstrate. 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.879 An appropriate bid for connection. Instead of 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:06.019 making fun of someone's tie or shoes. Or their 00:08:06.019 --> 00:08:09.240 hairline. Oh, that was pretty low. It was. That 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:12.040 was the lowest of the low. All right, moving 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:14.420 on. So you said we had a bill. It's a housing 00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:17.000 bill. You just happen to be working on it because 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:18.980 that's why you're here. You're working on housing 00:08:18.980 --> 00:08:22.339 bills for the county's association. And you were 00:08:22.339 --> 00:08:26.600 saying it's fully cooked. Everyone's going to 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:28.759 have their own opinion. on how they like their 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.820 steak. But this one's been worked on by you in 00:08:33.820 --> 00:08:36.980 prior years and by me last year as well. And 00:08:36.980 --> 00:08:40.919 there's been a lot of stakeholder input and kind 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:44.480 of fine -tuning and titrating of both kind of 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.220 things. I don't think we've told them what the 00:08:46.220 --> 00:08:49.960 bill is. 1345. Perfect. Which is the bill number, 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:52.840 but what is the bill? That is the bill that explicitly 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:58.289 authorizes detached ADUs. Which is? A detached 00:08:58.289 --> 00:09:01.450 ADU? What is that? I didn't say D -A -D -U. Oh, 00:09:01.509 --> 00:09:05.090 yes, I did say ADU, didn't I? Accessory Dwelling 00:09:05.090 --> 00:09:08.149 Unit. Nicely done. All acronyms must be defined. 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:10.450 No, I appreciate that. I was like, wait, I said 00:09:10.450 --> 00:09:13.289 detached. You did, yes. I did, yeah. Because 00:09:13.289 --> 00:09:15.070 I don't like that D -A -D -U, or some people 00:09:15.070 --> 00:09:17.929 call them DADUs. I think that's terrible. I prefer 00:09:17.929 --> 00:09:22.539 detached ADU. Yeah, I would never. Yeah, it just 00:09:22.539 --> 00:09:24.500 sounds better. One of our champions in the Senate 00:09:24.500 --> 00:09:27.940 says daddy. It always takes me about five seconds 00:09:27.940 --> 00:09:30.559 to remember. What is that? What is that? Yeah. 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.159 It just sounds funny. The kids slang these days. 00:09:34.179 --> 00:09:36.360 I got a daddy. What do you got? That's weird. 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:41.980 Yeah. I was assuming it was an insult. Again, 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:46.179 maybe I'm a little defensive. But we digress, 00:09:46.179 --> 00:09:48.700 Paul. Let's get back on track. That's the actual 00:09:48.700 --> 00:09:52.340 definition of digression. Let's get back on track. 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.700 Yeah. So the purpose of the bill is to provide 00:09:55.700 --> 00:09:59.700 explicit authority for counties in the rural 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:03.080 area to authorize detached accessory dwelling 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.620 units. Current law only allows attached, which 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:11.080 provides some utility, but perhaps not the same 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:14.529 utility that... detached ADU. Can I say ADU now 00:10:14.529 --> 00:10:16.210 that we've defined it? Yes, you can. Okay, great. 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:17.769 You can say it over and over. Right, and I think 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:20.789 we all know, right, we either have, depending 00:10:20.789 --> 00:10:22.870 on where we are in our lives, we either have 00:10:22.870 --> 00:10:27.649 aging parents that we don't necessarily want, 00:10:27.769 --> 00:10:29.909 you know, that they could have more independence 00:10:29.909 --> 00:10:33.750 and a higher quality of life, living in their 00:10:33.750 --> 00:10:36.350 own space, but still receive the support they 00:10:36.350 --> 00:10:39.289 need from us, or kids that are, you know, starting 00:10:39.289 --> 00:10:42.690 to launch, but perhaps not fully in. Or failure 00:10:42.690 --> 00:10:45.029 to launch, you can say it. No, no, no. There 00:10:45.029 --> 00:10:47.769 are other kids, though. It's cold. We don't want 00:10:47.769 --> 00:10:49.809 the O -rings to freeze. There are other family 00:10:49.809 --> 00:10:51.710 members who just need extra help, right? They 00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:53.730 need extra support. Sometimes they're older. 00:10:53.789 --> 00:10:57.529 Sometimes they're not. Or, you know, ADUs do 00:10:57.529 --> 00:11:01.850 serve as good rental housing options, too. You 00:11:01.850 --> 00:11:03.529 know, I live in a college town, for instance. 00:11:04.269 --> 00:11:08.049 a lot of ADUs in our college town, and a lot 00:11:08.049 --> 00:11:10.970 of them are occupied by college students, both 00:11:10.970 --> 00:11:13.669 for some that are there for the entire time, 00:11:13.710 --> 00:11:16.710 some that are there temporarily, happens in the 00:11:16.710 --> 00:11:19.070 summer, as well as in the spring, as well as 00:11:19.070 --> 00:11:21.990 throughout the year. And by ADUs, we mean when 00:11:21.990 --> 00:11:24.850 we say a detached accessory dwelling unit, we're 00:11:24.850 --> 00:11:27.470 talking about things like... an apartment above 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:30.409 a garage or a shop that's not attached to the 00:11:30.409 --> 00:11:33.649 house, or maybe even a freestanding small -scale 00:11:33.649 --> 00:11:37.190 cottage that's on the same property that's not 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:39.769 attached to the house. These come in all kinds 00:11:39.769 --> 00:11:42.230 of different shapes and forms. It could even 00:11:42.230 --> 00:11:45.289 be a manufactured house or a tiny house, something 00:11:45.289 --> 00:11:50.129 that could move around. And in earlier times, 00:11:50.429 --> 00:11:53.029 they don't make these anymore, from what I understand, 00:11:53.090 --> 00:11:55.529 but it could have been a mobile home. Those have 00:11:55.529 --> 00:11:57.529 been replaced with manufactured housing, but 00:11:57.529 --> 00:11:59.009 it could have been a mobile home, say, in the 00:11:59.009 --> 00:12:04.710 1970s or the 1980s. So these are a type of housing 00:12:04.710 --> 00:12:06.590 that's been around for a very long time. The 00:12:06.590 --> 00:12:09.929 GMA, for whatever reason, has decided through 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:12.750 case law decisions that went before the Growth 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:15.370 Management Hearings Board and then to the Supreme 00:12:15.370 --> 00:12:19.149 Court that detached ADUs were not compliant with 00:12:19.149 --> 00:12:23.600 the GMA, but attached ADUs were. Completely nonsensical. 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:26.179 Yeah. Doesn't make, you know, there's really 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:28.279 no good arguments for that, even though the court 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.899 found that. And so we've been trying to get this 00:12:30.899 --> 00:12:35.259 through the legislature. It feels like forever. 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:40.460 It does. It feels like literally forever. I mean, 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:42.620 it's been. I think it's year six for you. Oh, 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.279 it's been brutal. Yeah. Imagine having to talk 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:49.259 about ADUs for six years. Yeah. And it's not 00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:52.820 just the subject. It's who you have to talk to 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:55.299 about it. I got so desperate that I tried to 00:12:55.299 --> 00:13:00.799 appeal to the pop culture memory of legislators 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:05.419 a couple of times by reminding them that Arthur 00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:10.679 Fonzarelli from Happy Days lived in an ADU. Oh, 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.759 dear. Which, of course, was above the garage 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:17.639 of the Cunningham's house, if you're familiar 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:19.909 with the show. I'm showing my age a little bit. 00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:22.429 You're probably like, what was Happy Days? No, 00:13:22.450 --> 00:13:25.230 no, no. Most people don't realize that the popular 00:13:25.230 --> 00:13:27.690 now colloquial expression, jumping the shark. 00:13:27.889 --> 00:13:30.250 Oh, yes. Which basically when you've run out 00:13:30.250 --> 00:13:34.389 of ideas because you've done so many things is 00:13:34.389 --> 00:13:36.389 from the Happy Days. That's a Happy Days reference, 00:13:36.529 --> 00:13:37.990 absolutely. Because Fonzie went to the beach 00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:40.830 and jumped a shark. He did it in his leather 00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:43.750 jacket, no less. Yes. Paul and I are about the 00:13:43.750 --> 00:13:47.149 same age, in case anyone's wondering. So anyways, 00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:49.149 I mean, I got so desperate that I actually brought 00:13:49.149 --> 00:13:51.370 that up in testimony on more than one occasion. 00:13:53.649 --> 00:13:55.649 Again, digression, but just a couple of years 00:13:55.649 --> 00:13:58.570 ago happened to be the 50th anniversary of the 00:13:58.570 --> 00:14:00.990 television show. So it gave me all kinds of time 00:14:00.990 --> 00:14:04.190 to bring that up. So I do think there are some 00:14:04.190 --> 00:14:07.330 really good things here that are helpful for 00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:08.950 us. We'll avoid some of the things that have 00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:12.210 happened in the past. strange breezeways to connect 00:14:12.210 --> 00:14:14.129 things and stuff like that. And there's a pathway 00:14:14.129 --> 00:14:16.970 for compliance to the extent that there have 00:14:16.970 --> 00:14:19.590 been some things. Well, the nice thing about 00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:21.870 a detached ADU is you get a little more privacy 00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:26.250 versus building, say, a mother -in -law apartment 00:14:26.250 --> 00:14:28.970 that's attached to the house or having an ADU 00:14:28.970 --> 00:14:32.730 in the basement or something like that. Everybody 00:14:32.730 --> 00:14:35.309 wins oftentimes with a little bit more privacy. 00:14:36.219 --> 00:14:40.960 We alluded to that earlier, and my personal experience 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.320 isn't super germane here, but I love my mom. 00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:47.600 Yeah. I think we talked about this when we talked 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:50.299 about it last time. And later in life, I love 00:14:50.299 --> 00:14:53.379 being close to my mom, but not that close. Not 00:14:53.379 --> 00:14:55.299 too close, yeah. Just the right amount of close. 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:58.200 Sure, sure. It worked for both of us. Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:58.460 --> 00:15:01.820 I don't think that's a unique experience. I don't 00:15:01.820 --> 00:15:03.440 think that's unique. She's a wonderful woman. 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.620 Yeah. So this bill, when you say it's fully cooked, 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.480 we've spent a lot of time working on it. It's 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.100 got some requirements in it. I know some of those 00:15:12.100 --> 00:15:16.679 are controversial, but this was the only way 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:17.980 we were able to get it through the legislature, 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:20.740 right, to put some kind of qualifications on, 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.100 you know, how big it could be. You mentioned 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:25.679 that. How many there could be. That's one of 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:30.200 them. This has been one of the most narrowest. 00:15:30.649 --> 00:15:33.149 policy needles to thread. Yeah, it's been tough. 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.669 It has not been easy. And it's not just been 00:15:35.669 --> 00:15:37.809 us working on it. Realtors were working on it. 00:15:37.830 --> 00:15:39.649 Builders Association was working on it for a 00:15:39.649 --> 00:15:41.350 while. Housing advocates have been working on 00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:44.990 it as well. And we really ran up against some 00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:47.889 of the planning groups that are out there as 00:15:47.889 --> 00:15:50.929 far as the future -wise of the world and others 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:55.490 that really resisted this for a long time, mostly 00:15:55.490 --> 00:15:58.450 around density concerns. So that's what a lot 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:01.059 of our negotiation was. there's some requirements 00:16:01.059 --> 00:16:04.340 in here brian um correct me if i'm wrong where 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:08.019 as counties we have to we basically can allow 00:16:08.019 --> 00:16:11.139 them anywhere now if this bill passes outside 00:16:11.139 --> 00:16:13.100 of urban growth areas but we have to actually 00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:15.940 keep track of how many we allow right for the 00:16:15.940 --> 00:16:18.279 first 10 years or so and then we use that data 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.399 to then project what we'll need for the next 00:16:22.250 --> 00:16:24.750 planning period, which under the GMA is 20 years. 00:16:25.250 --> 00:16:27.769 And then that gets kind of configured into our 00:16:27.769 --> 00:16:29.909 zoning scheme outside of our growth areas to 00:16:29.909 --> 00:16:31.570 make sure we can accommodate that need. Is that 00:16:31.570 --> 00:16:35.409 right? That's 100 % correct. And it's kind of 00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:41.830 an unprecedented thing to broker a deal that 00:16:41.830 --> 00:16:45.590 gets put into state law where you can do something 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:47.730 for a 10 -year period without necessarily having 00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:51.049 to make sure that you're... planning scheme accommodates 00:16:51.049 --> 00:16:53.809 it and that's been the crux of this entire issue 00:16:53.809 --> 00:16:56.210 has really been around density and how do you 00:16:56.210 --> 00:16:58.590 make sure that you plan for these and if we allow 00:16:58.590 --> 00:17:01.590 them what will the i don't know what the right 00:17:01.590 --> 00:17:05.029 word is but let's say what will the uh saturation 00:17:05.029 --> 00:17:07.650 level actually be well that's there's a vast 00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:11.069 vast difference of opinion of utilization and 00:17:11.069 --> 00:17:15.450 uptake and i think i would say that ours is based 00:17:15.450 --> 00:17:20.079 on some experience Yeah, but it's been all anecdotal. 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:22.119 No one's actually kept track for the most part 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:25.920 over a long period of time. Or delineated the 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:27.700 difference between attached versus detached. 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.519 Right, exactly. And so when we first started 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.819 talking about this and wanted to allow them on 00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:37.980 every residential lot, and we were trying to 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:39.740 negotiate with FutureWise, their position was, 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:41.920 well, if you want to put it on every lot, then 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:43.559 that's double the density, so you need to cut 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:48.210 your density allowances in half. that's assuming 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:50.670 every lot would build one. And we know that's 00:17:50.670 --> 00:17:53.369 just not going to happen, right? And so we were 00:17:53.369 --> 00:17:57.690 able to work with them. Detached ADUs are allowed 00:17:57.690 --> 00:18:01.190 in most city residential codes. They're required. 00:18:01.690 --> 00:18:05.390 And they're not. They're required, like two on 00:18:05.390 --> 00:18:08.990 every lot. And there's pre -planned. And to my 00:18:08.990 --> 00:18:11.880 point is, drive around. Start counting them. 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:13.940 Right. There's not that many there. There's a 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:15.559 lot fewer than you would think. Right. Because 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:17.740 people can choose. People can choose. Whether 00:18:17.740 --> 00:18:20.140 they want them or they don't. People want a basketball 00:18:20.140 --> 00:18:23.640 hoop or a garden. Right. Or an office. And sometimes 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:28.119 they build them for a need, like support of a 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.940 family member. And that situation changes for 00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:33.079 whatever reason. Sometimes the family member 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:36.029 moves on. There's different ways a family member 00:18:36.029 --> 00:18:38.930 can move on, and they don't need it for that 00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:41.009 purpose anymore, and they don't actually continue 00:18:41.009 --> 00:18:42.769 to use it, right? They convert it to another 00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:45.890 purpose. So, yeah, you drive around a neighborhood, 00:18:46.029 --> 00:18:50.470 and in most areas now where housing is zoned 00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:53.490 for within urban growth areas and within cities, 00:18:53.650 --> 00:18:56.309 they're allowed a minimum of two, minimum of 00:18:56.309 --> 00:19:00.240 two ADUs required. It's just not happening. Right. 00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:02.900 And so we you know, it's reasonable to think 00:19:02.900 --> 00:19:06.119 that that's also not going to happen in the unincorporated 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:09.299 areas. But we had to convince them that, you 00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:11.980 know, we had a strategy for, you know, by which 00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:17.359 we would actually. eventually regulate them by 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.759 kind of keeping track of how many we did and 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.519 then using that to project what we would need 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.660 in the future. So rather than just saying, okay, 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:25.680 because we want to allow them everywhere, we're 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.460 going to have to cut our density, allow density 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:30.319 in half, we got to a much more reasonable place. 00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:32.799 And it's really unusual to get that in a bill 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:34.460 like this and to actually put that in statute. 00:19:34.579 --> 00:19:36.440 I just kind of wanted to mention that. It's a 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:38.440 unique, it's a really unique feature of the bill. 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:40.599 That's a really good point. And it's a unique 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:44.119 partnership with folks who were on the opposite 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:46.579 side of the table with us for a really, really 00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:49.180 very long time over this issue in particular. 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:55.740 Yeah. Mine is... So I've converted mine into 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:58.799 a workshop. I'm currently focusing on hammer 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.619 dulcimers. I have no idea what that is. It's 00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:04.599 an instrument. I use coca -bola wood. It's like 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.099 what you'd see from like a ukulele from Hawaii. 00:20:07.579 --> 00:20:10.319 And you said it actually correctly, ukulele. 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.880 Most people say ukulele. Well, I try. Look at 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:16.900 you. You're kind of a snob where ukuleles are 00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:21.470 concerned, I think. What do our listeners need 00:20:21.470 --> 00:20:23.130 to know from me right now? They need to know 00:20:23.130 --> 00:20:27.589 that 1345 was passed off the house floor. Right. 00:20:27.609 --> 00:20:30.329 Already. Already. So all those talks about this 00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:33.569 cutoff. Way ahead of the cutoff. So, yeah, that's 00:20:33.569 --> 00:20:37.410 the February 17th cutoff. Yeah, so we're way 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:38.950 ahead of the game on this one, which is great 00:20:38.950 --> 00:20:42.009 because last year we got it all the way to the 00:20:42.009 --> 00:20:44.549 floor and we were told it was going to pass and 00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:47.930 it got broiled up in a controversial. battle 00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:51.869 on another bill that was really political. We 00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:53.609 were collateral damage. Yeah, we ended up being 00:20:53.609 --> 00:20:55.369 collateral damage. So it was great to see it 00:20:55.369 --> 00:20:58.569 move this year and move early. What's the next 00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:02.549 step with the bill? Well, I'm hearing we have 00:21:02.549 --> 00:21:05.470 a hearing. Oh, Lord. Did you just say that? I 00:21:05.470 --> 00:21:10.690 did. Don't cut that one, Mitch. No, no, no, no, 00:21:10.690 --> 00:21:14.589 no. Oh, my. Is that what you heard? Yeah, next 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:19.380 week. It's actually published in the hearing 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:24.460 schedule. All right. Okay. Well, I'm listening. 00:21:24.619 --> 00:21:28.859 So, and what's kind of unusual. These are all 00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:31.160 bad dad jokes. I know. It's being heard on February 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.059 4th, and that's a date that keeps coming back 00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:36.180 up. Yeah. And what's kind of unusual, and again, 00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:40.599 it's an indicator of good things. Yeah. Is it's 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:44.960 a House bill being heard in a Senate policy committee. 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:50.039 The day of the Senate policy cutoff. Right. It's 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.960 killing a Senate bill. It is, yeah. Instead of 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.759 hearing a Senate bill on the last day to hear 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.599 Senate bills or exacting a Senate bill on the 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.160 last day to exact Senate bills out of the policy 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.759 committee, they're hearing this House bill. Yeah. 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:06.519 That's unusual. It is unusual. I still kind of 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.579 expect it to be rescheduled a little bit, but 00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:12.259 if it's not, then it's... I don't know how to 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:13.799 interpret it other than a - It's not the only 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:15.759 one. It's not the only house bill on the schedule. 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.279 Yeah, okay. There's a couple of others too. So 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:23.240 either they don't have enough bills or any that 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.460 they think are viable enough that they just want 00:22:25.460 --> 00:22:27.440 to get a head start. But we'll take it. And so 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.720 that's going to put us at, again, just thinking 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:32.859 about how you stay ahead of the clock. Right. 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:35.619 Because the clock, I mean - The clock runs everything 00:22:35.619 --> 00:22:38.599 over there. This whole system is run by the clock. 00:22:39.019 --> 00:22:41.789 And speaking of being. Kind of a broken clock. 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:46.690 Oh, boy. On a short session. Get that smile off 00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:50.529 your face. It's like I just want to scratch her. 00:22:50.549 --> 00:22:54.769 I know. Or I got like a double yoker or like 00:22:54.769 --> 00:23:01.230 two cookies in my. Just say it. Just say what 00:23:01.230 --> 00:23:04.190 you were going to say. No, but in a short session, 00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:08.769 it's just the moments matter. And to continue 00:23:08.769 --> 00:23:11.819 to stay ahead of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you've 00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:14.980 got to. And so far, we're well ahead of it. Now, 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.200 let's talk about a few. I feel like we should 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.319 knock on wood before we end that part of the 00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:24.039 conversation. It makes a wood like sound. It 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:28.279 is a wood like substance. For those of you who 00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:30.140 are familiar with our desks here at WOSAC, they 00:23:30.140 --> 00:23:32.940 have a wood grain pattern on them. However, I'm 00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:35.259 pretty sure they're for mica. Although underneath 00:23:35.259 --> 00:23:37.619 here, there is probably some particle board or 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:40.000 medium density fiber board. For sure. Which all 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.759 does contain wood product at some level. I would 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.539 say none of the laminate is peeling. That's not 00:23:46.539 --> 00:23:50.420 true. Good condition. I am knocking on this as 00:23:50.420 --> 00:23:53.839 if it were. I have faith that there's wood somewhere 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:57.259 in this product. Well, Hogfield is wood. Yes, 00:23:57.259 --> 00:23:59.400 exactly. It's a wood product. Exactly. All right. 00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:02.500 Moving on. Wasak Desk, not made out of Hogfield. 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.180 So I think we've done 1345 to death, but that's 00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:09.599 not the only build that you're working on or 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:11.440 not the only strategy you're working on for us 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.880 this year. So we have a new title. a new bill 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.380 number this year for an issue that was introduced 00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:24.259 last year. And that is House Bill 2559. Okay. 00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:29.779 Which pertains to the taxation of short -term 00:24:29.779 --> 00:24:32.519 rental housing. Okay. And now short -term rental 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.680 housing, we're talking about things like listings 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:40.000 on VRBO. Right? Which I can't remember what BRBO 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:41.640 stands for. Well, I'm looking at them because 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.119 no free advertisement here. Or Airbnb. Brought 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.480 to you by Airbnb. No free advertisements here. 00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:52.940 Yeah. We say brands here all the time just for 00:24:52.940 --> 00:24:55.920 fun. Brought to you by Vacasa. Something like 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:58.279 that. But we're talking about like vacation rentals. 00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:02.039 Yeah. Okay. So we're talking about vacation rentals. 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:04.500 Yep. Lay it on me. What's the building? Well, 00:25:04.579 --> 00:25:09.079 the bill authorizes a city or county to implement 00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:15.759 a new up to 4 % tax on short -term rental housing. 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.920 Like a sales tax? Is it a straight rate or is 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.119 it based on... Okay, so it's 4%. It has to be 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:24.539 like a sales tax then. So it's 4 % on the rental, 00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:27.539 per night rental price. Correct. Okay. And it's 00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:31.940 up to... So if I'm a county, I could do... One. 00:25:32.390 --> 00:25:34.849 Two. What about one and a half? Nope, only integers. 00:25:36.049 --> 00:25:38.390 It's in the bill. Really? Yeah, it has to be 00:25:38.390 --> 00:25:41.670 of... Oh, I thought you were joking. No, I'm 00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:43.470 not joking. So it has to be an actual whole number. 00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:45.329 Whole number. Okay. I think that's what integer 00:25:45.329 --> 00:25:48.170 means. I think it is too. Okay. But we could 00:25:48.170 --> 00:25:50.529 look it up. Oh, dear. Just keep going. Okay. 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:54.089 Maybe we could have Mitch chime in. No, let's 00:25:54.089 --> 00:25:55.490 not do that. I've already done asking too many 00:25:55.490 --> 00:25:57.730 things. Yeah, he will if we ask him to and we 00:25:57.730 --> 00:25:58.569 don't want that. It has to be whole numbers. 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:00.859 Hey, this is Mitch here with a quick editor's 00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:03.420 note. I did just look this up. And the difference 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:05.599 between an integer and a whole number, while 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.619 they both cannot have fractions or decimals, 00:26:08.619 --> 00:26:12.500 an integer can be negative. A whole number must 00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:15.759 be positive, again, with no fractions or decimals. 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:18.200 Whole numbers. Has to be whole numbers. Okay. 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:22.160 So one, two, three, or four, or zero if you want. 00:26:22.520 --> 00:26:24.720 And for the... Well, zero wouldn't actually be 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.380 a tax. Well, that's why I said it's optional. 00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:28.579 Yeah. So you don't have to do it. Yeah. Please 00:26:28.579 --> 00:26:31.200 don't go to all the trouble of a public hearing 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:36.160 to implement a zero percent tax. So I think, 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.259 you know, there is some momentum to do this bill. 00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.539 We haven't moved out of the... It's in a... finance 00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:44.640 committee so we have a little bit more time or 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.779 a fiscal committee and the fiscal committee happens 00:26:46.779 --> 00:26:50.019 to be finance um so we do have you know a little 00:26:50.019 --> 00:26:52.380 bit more time yeah we have until the ninth right 00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:59.900 uh -huh and um it is um uh fairly flexible but 00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:02.900 not doesn't give us everything we want so and 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:04.440 what do you mean by that brian well thank you 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.460 for asking paul what i mean by that is that um 00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:13.029 it's focused on um acquisition or construction 00:27:13.029 --> 00:27:17.490 or rehabilitation of housing. So operating and 00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:19.970 capital costs. So this is what we can use the 00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:22.349 money for? Yeah. So we can use the money for 00:27:22.349 --> 00:27:25.750 acquiring, building, rehabilitating, things like 00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:27.269 that. Any type of housing or does it have to 00:27:27.269 --> 00:27:30.289 be qualified like affordable housing? So great 00:27:30.289 --> 00:27:33.569 question. It says it has to be affordable housing. 00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:37.109 Okay. There is no definition of affordable housing 00:27:37.109 --> 00:27:41.710 in this. bill or in the statutes that are modified 00:27:41.710 --> 00:27:44.130 by this bill you know i think most affordable 00:27:44.130 --> 00:27:47.529 housing is 80 yeah 80 affordable to 80 people 00:27:47.529 --> 00:27:51.329 in the 80 ami um income yes yeah i believe so 00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:52.910 as well because when you get my of course meaning 00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:58.400 area median income because um That's how it's 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:03.279 defined in other places in RCW. And so, for instance, 00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:08.359 50 % is referred to as very low or very affordable, 00:28:08.539 --> 00:28:10.680 depending. There's a very in front of there. 00:28:10.779 --> 00:28:13.039 And so there's no very in this bill. Yeah, because 00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:16.039 there's low, extremely low, or low, very low, 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:21.319 extremely low. 30, 50, 80. Yeah. Yeah. And it 00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.740 can also be used for rental assistance. Okay. 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.059 Yeah, rental assistance programs. Okay, great. 00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:32.299 And then operating, so operating costs associated 00:28:32.299 --> 00:28:34.859 with it. So perhaps you have a supportive housing 00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:37.059 program or something like that. That's a big 00:28:37.059 --> 00:28:40.140 need. Operating costs is a big need. The missing 00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:42.440 piece, which was in... prior versions of the 00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.079 bill and i have been in conversations with the 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:47.880 house sponsor and the senate sponsor is is looking 00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:50.339 at the opportunity to putting infrastructure 00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:54.400 back into place okay and so and what i mean by 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:58.140 that is right i i think it would be safe to say 00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:04.400 you can you you can't put in You can't build 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.240 a trunk line with this. You can't put in water 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.420 and sewer up to a development. Right, but we 00:29:10.420 --> 00:29:13.539 actually wanted the ability in the original bill 00:29:13.539 --> 00:29:16.700 to build or to use it for infrastructure that 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:18.680 supports housing, right? Yeah, because that, 00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:23.779 I mean, we've talked a lot broadly about the 00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:28.859 county's housing package. And a lot of the philosophy 00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:33.900 behind it is that we have been in, underutilized 00:29:33.900 --> 00:29:36.460 partner in the housing crisis. Oh, for sure. 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:42.740 And in part because the tools we need look and 00:29:42.740 --> 00:29:44.559 feel a little bit different than the tools you 00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.559 need in the city. And of course in the city, 00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:49.619 well, not of course, but in the vast majority 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:53.359 of areas where you're going to look at developing 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.519 affordable housing, you've already got the pumps 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.930 and pipes. And the sidewalks and the streets, 00:29:58.150 --> 00:29:59.750 right? All the infrastructure is already there. 00:29:59.950 --> 00:30:02.269 Yeah. Because these are residential areas that 00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:06.289 either were already developed or have been developed 00:30:06.289 --> 00:30:08.250 around, and you're looking at infill possibilities. 00:30:08.250 --> 00:30:15.910 But we know in areas, even in lesser developed 00:30:15.910 --> 00:30:20.230 UGAs. Right. that the key to the real key to 00:30:20.230 --> 00:30:22.849 unlocking housing in many cases is infrastructure 00:30:22.849 --> 00:30:25.630 infrastructure yeah we've had lots of conversations 00:30:25.630 --> 00:30:28.529 with our planning folks about that and that's 00:30:28.529 --> 00:30:30.109 one of the biggest impediments that we have and 00:30:30.109 --> 00:30:32.250 to be honest with you it's that way in cities 00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:35.490 too many areas that they want to increase density 00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:38.809 you've got aging systems sure that either need 00:30:38.809 --> 00:30:42.910 repair or need upgrading to modern standards 00:30:42.910 --> 00:30:44.769 if you're going to build new and they were never 00:30:44.769 --> 00:30:46.470 built for the capacity that we're thinking about 00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:48.759 utilizing them for today right if you're going 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.980 to convert some you know previously existing 00:30:50.980 --> 00:30:53.420 single -family homes you know maybe you buy two 00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:54.859 or three lots and you're going to convert them 00:30:54.859 --> 00:30:57.140 into multi -family housing well you've got you've 00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:58.779 got a lot more people live in there right yeah 00:30:58.779 --> 00:31:01.119 now you need more sewer capacity more water capacity 00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:05.299 more electricity capacity etc and the older systems 00:31:05.299 --> 00:31:07.559 need to be converted into newer systems so it's 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.680 not just areas that haven't developed it's also 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.099 areas that previously developed say 50 60 70 00:31:14.809 --> 00:31:17.569 maybe even a little longer ago, they need upgrades. 00:31:18.970 --> 00:31:22.730 So I agree with everything you said, Paul. That's 00:31:22.730 --> 00:31:28.390 unusual, but thank you. You know, it's hard to 00:31:28.390 --> 00:31:31.970 say that when we've had so many conversations 00:31:31.970 --> 00:31:38.390 about the housing crisis, it feels glib or somewhat 00:31:38.390 --> 00:31:44.069 unserious to say that a small... international 00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:47.210 soccer tournament happening up and down the i 00:31:47.210 --> 00:31:51.769 -5 corridor beginning in june and july of 2026 00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:54.849 are you talking about my my my kids soccer matches 00:31:54.849 --> 00:31:56.869 again on the weekend is that what we're discussing 00:31:56.869 --> 00:32:00.650 perhaps talking about fifa world cup oh that 00:32:00.650 --> 00:32:04.069 one but it's kind of like my kids weekend soccer 00:32:04.069 --> 00:32:10.180 matches but bigger but bigger yeah and so There 00:32:10.180 --> 00:32:11.680 are going to be a lot of people traveling to 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:14.180 the state of Washington. I think where you're 00:32:14.180 --> 00:32:16.200 going is they might need some short -term rentals. 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:21.259 So, again, I don't want to say that the primary 00:32:21.259 --> 00:32:24.400 motivation for creating affordable housing and 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:26.460 additional funding for affordable housing in 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:30.339 the middle of a housing crisis is the World Cup. 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.079 But I would say there is some extra oomph this 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.180 year to get this in place, signed, and effective 00:32:37.180 --> 00:32:43.410 prior. By oomph, you mean urgency. Yeah. So I'm 00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:47.670 feeling optimistic and I'm feeling like some 00:32:47.670 --> 00:32:49.930 of that urgency is hopefully going to carry us 00:32:49.930 --> 00:32:51.609 forward on this issue. So you're feeling optimistic 00:32:51.609 --> 00:32:55.730 about the prospects of the bill, but it still 00:32:55.730 --> 00:33:00.349 has or it still does not have the portion that 00:33:00.349 --> 00:33:02.549 we originally wanted in it around infrastructure. 00:33:03.029 --> 00:33:07.650 Correct. And if I'm not mistaken. The actual 00:33:07.650 --> 00:33:10.430 tax amount, the maximum tax amount has been reduced 00:33:10.430 --> 00:33:12.289 significantly. I think it was originally around 00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:16.809 7%. Our members authorized supporting up to a 00:33:16.809 --> 00:33:20.170 10 % tax, and it's been reduced all the way down 00:33:20.170 --> 00:33:22.670 to 4 % in the most recent versions. Isn't that 00:33:22.670 --> 00:33:25.710 right? Yeah. My recollection was six, but we're 00:33:25.710 --> 00:33:29.029 in the same ballpark. And so it is a smaller 00:33:29.029 --> 00:33:32.569 amount of resources available. There's been a 00:33:32.569 --> 00:33:35.220 lot of opposition. Yeah, there has. There has 00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:38.559 been a lot of opposition. Some unusual supporters, 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.460 either behind the scenes or publicly from the 00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:44.079 hotel industry, that they actually think this... 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.660 Well, it creates a better competitive balance, 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.740 frankly, because hotels pay a lot in... PFD. 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.480 Yeah, retail. They pay a lot in retail sales 00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:58.059 tax. They pay a lot in lodging taxes, but they 00:33:58.059 --> 00:34:01.529 also pay a lot in... other fees associated with 00:34:01.529 --> 00:34:03.190 where they're located, whether it's in a port 00:34:03.190 --> 00:34:06.609 or a stadium district or around an airport. So 00:34:06.609 --> 00:34:08.690 they've often felt that a competitive disadvantage. 00:34:09.349 --> 00:34:14.050 Yeah. You can add oftentimes 15 % or 16 % easily 00:34:14.050 --> 00:34:19.010 to a hotel bill just with those extra fees that 00:34:19.010 --> 00:34:21.789 you're not paying when you go with a short -term 00:34:21.789 --> 00:34:29.480 rental. Yeah. So more to come on that. The other 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:31.219 thing I want to talk about before we get out 00:34:31.219 --> 00:34:32.980 of here. Really briefly, we're running out of 00:34:32.980 --> 00:34:36.440 time. Is budget proviso that we're working on 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:44.039 that would help generate some pre -planned middle 00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:49.000 housing plans. It's an idea that we shopped around 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:51.639 last year. We had asked for $250 ,000 in the 00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:55.039 budget to work on four pilot sites, theoretically 00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:57.440 two counties on the west side, two on the east 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.320 side, where you would develop a suite of plans. 00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:04.619 So like four plans for ADUs. We're talking like 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:07.219 building plans, like construction plans, like 00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:13.010 blueprints? Yes. Okay. Yes. um like duplexes 00:35:13.010 --> 00:35:17.150 triplex or duplexes and then like smaller homes 00:35:17.150 --> 00:35:19.190 and things like that so we'd have a set of pre 00:35:19.190 --> 00:35:21.949 -designed plans so you as a resident of your 00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:25.469 county could go in for no cost to you no cost 00:35:25.469 --> 00:35:31.119 no cost oh wow have Have an ADU design or a small 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:34.420 home design that would meet the site -specific 00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:36.800 concerns. I know snow loads is one that you've 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:37.980 brought up in the past. Yeah, snow loads, wind 00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:42.119 shear. Sometimes you've got, if you're in an 00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:44.800 earthquake -prone zone, you've got some seismic 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:48.659 retrofits that are required. If you're in a wildfire 00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:50.599 area, you've got different types of materials 00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:55.099 that have to be used that are more noncombustible, 00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:57.639 and sometimes that affects engineering and design. 00:35:57.739 --> 00:36:00.219 So there's different things to think about in 00:36:00.219 --> 00:36:02.059 different parts of the state. And I think the 00:36:02.059 --> 00:36:05.179 missing piece has been the smaller homes. Because 00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:09.300 in other areas, you've seen ADUs and things like 00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:12.840 that. And the experience has been great, right? 00:36:13.179 --> 00:36:18.460 You get your permit, you get your plans. Lickety 00:36:18.460 --> 00:36:20.380 split. Within a couple days, someone just checks 00:36:20.380 --> 00:36:23.230 your site to make sure it's not... Near the fence. 00:36:23.469 --> 00:36:25.550 Yeah. And then you're good to go. So the idea 00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:28.610 would be I want to build an ADU. I want to build 00:36:28.610 --> 00:36:32.110 a duplex on a lot that I have. Instead of designing 00:36:32.110 --> 00:36:34.030 it myself, going and getting an architect or 00:36:34.030 --> 00:36:36.429 buying a plan somewhere, I can go to the county 00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:38.349 and they've got maybe, I don't know, five or 00:36:38.349 --> 00:36:40.250 six, maybe two or three. I don't know, whatever 00:36:40.250 --> 00:36:42.309 it is. And honestly, if you've seen some of these 00:36:42.309 --> 00:36:43.369 plans. And if I choose one of those, they're 00:36:43.369 --> 00:36:45.530 free. And I was going to say, honestly, if you've 00:36:45.530 --> 00:36:47.840 seen some of these plans, they're. They're beautiful. 00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:51.199 Yeah, they really are. Even though it's only 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:53.639 a handful, but you have a modern design, a more 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.599 classic design, a cottage design, things like 00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:58.599 that. And they're pre -approved for whatever 00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.500 is going to be required locally. So when you 00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:05.000 say they're just looking at setbacks and things 00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.300 like that, they're looking at the site that you 00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:08.679 want to put it on, just making sure that it'll 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:11.599 work. Yes. Wow. So you get it a lot faster, you 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:14.119 get it a lot cheaper. That should bring down 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:18.699 the cost of construction. Yeah. Both from a real 00:37:18.699 --> 00:37:21.579 direct cost and an indirect cost from just time 00:37:21.579 --> 00:37:27.320 delays. Genius idea. So I'll be honest with you. 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:29.880 I didn't feel like there was a lot of fish biting 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.920 on this last year. Yeah, we had a hard time getting 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:35.280 any momentum on it last year. We have some interest. 00:37:36.099 --> 00:37:38.219 specifically on the Senate side, from both chambers. 00:37:38.420 --> 00:37:41.539 Oh, wow. That's what I would say. I have not 00:37:41.539 --> 00:37:44.039 crossed the threshold to cautiously optimistic. 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.199 I'm still in the kind of pessimistic stage. So 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.500 still pessimistic, but trending towards cautious 00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:52.380 optimism. Sometimes you've got to throw an idea 00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:56.139 out there more than once before people take it 00:37:56.139 --> 00:37:58.760 seriously or take... a minute to think about 00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:02.139 it and decide that they like it. And of course, 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.900 you know, that's what it's all about here in 00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:05.960 the legislature. We can throw the ideas out there, 00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:08.460 but it takes a legislator themselves to pick 00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:10.900 it up and run with it. Well, in this case, we 00:38:10.900 --> 00:38:15.159 had a legislator who independently came up with 00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:19.420 a similar idea. Was it truly independent or were 00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:26.000 they just claiming our idea? Well, okay. Bats 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.199 have wings. Birds have wings. One's a mammal. 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:31.380 They evolve separately. I don't know. Birds aren't 00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:32.920 real, in case you haven't heard. But there's 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:38.260 nothing better than a member believing their 00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:42.840 idea. Is their idea. Yeah. Yeah, it's perfect. 00:38:43.099 --> 00:38:46.300 Yes. Great idea. Yeah. Consider this. That's 00:38:46.300 --> 00:38:49.860 an amazing idea. Well, cool. Who cares whose 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:55.070 idea it was, if it works well. You know, it helps 00:38:55.070 --> 00:38:57.309 with the housing crisis, right? Yeah. Nobody 00:38:57.309 --> 00:39:01.309 cares. Yeah. Well, good. Brian, good work. Appreciate 00:39:01.309 --> 00:39:04.090 you coming by today. I hope we can get some updates 00:39:04.090 --> 00:39:07.250 from you as this, I wanted to say the season 00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:10.030 progresses, but it's really the session. It's 00:39:10.030 --> 00:39:12.989 kind of a season for us. It's, yeah. But it's 00:39:12.989 --> 00:39:16.630 more of a session. So as it progresses, I hope 00:39:16.630 --> 00:39:20.050 you'll come back. But I especially want you to 00:39:20.050 --> 00:39:22.289 come back once the budgets get released. Oh, 00:39:22.289 --> 00:39:23.570 can't wait. And we'll have another chat about 00:39:23.570 --> 00:39:25.289 that. Yeah, sure enough. Thanks, Paul. All right, 00:39:25.289 --> 00:39:30.230 take care. Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. 00:39:30.369 --> 00:39:32.449 Stay in the loop by subscribing to us through 00:39:32.449 --> 00:39:34.750 your preferred podcasting app and following us 00:39:34.750 --> 00:39:37.710 on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. And don't 00:39:37.710 --> 00:39:39.710 forget to join The Hub, your go -to source for 00:39:39.710 --> 00:39:41.469 the latest news and updates from the Washington 00:39:41.469 --> 00:39:44.130 State Association of Counties. Until next time, 00:39:44.170 --> 00:39:45.889 stay connected and stay informed.