Lop. Lop. I like lop. Yeah. Local on, I don't
know. How about lore? Lore? Yeah. Local only
roads. Oh, there you go. Lore. Oh, I like it.
It almost sounds a little hobbitish. Yes. Almost
a little, you know. Yeah. Do you guys hear about
that lore program? Oh no, but now I'm excited.
Tell me about it. Tell me about lore. I just
need to know. For how many people listen to this,
we are going to start. Look at the reaction you
got from me. Yeah. That's crazy. I love it. Welcome
to County Connection, the official podcast of
the Washington State Association of Counties,
where we dive into the legislative issues shaping
the future of our communities. From budgets to
public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll
break down what's happening in Olympia and how
it impacts counties from across the Evergreen
State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join
us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39
counties. Welcome everybody to the County Connection
Podcast. This is Paul Jewell, your host and government
relations director for the Washington State Association
of Counties. This is the official podcast for
WASAC, and we are in the third week of the legislative
session here in Olympia. Surprisingly, the weather
has turned. We went from beautiful, sunny fall
-spring days to a little bit gray and dreary
today with more of the natural kind of Olympia
weather that we're all used to during session.
And speaking of something that comes back and
that we're all used to... Jane Wall is here in
the studio with me. I don't think that's the
right intro for you, Jane. That's okay. That's
okay, dark and dreary and stormy. Oh, boo. That's
not what I meant. We should re -record that maybe
another time. Actually, it's really a pleasure
to see you. You were here not that long. Actually,
you were here, if you think about it in terms
of how many podcasts, we've done 58 podcasts.
Congratulations. Yeah, so you were here right
at the beginning. You were like one of the OG
podcasts for WASAC. You're like County Connection
OG Jane Wall. Yeah, you know, I like that. I
like that title. Well, we're glad to have you
back. Thank you. It's good to see you. It feels
like maybe we'll make this a yearly thing if
it keeps happening this way. We'd love it. But
let's remind people who you are, where you're
from, and what you do. Yeah. So again, Jane Wall.
I am the executive director at the County Road
Administration Board, CRAB. And before being
the executive director, or becoming, I worked
for the Association of Counties and the County
Engineers Association as the managing director.
So I love my county family and world. Paul and
I go way back. Way back. Yeah. What, eight years?
It's wonderful to be back in this building. Yeah,
eight years. Way back. Way back, yeah. But every
time I walk in this building, I have good memories,
and it's just a cozy place to be. Well, we appreciate
that, Jane, and it's good to have you back, and
it's good to see you, and we miss you. And anytime
you want to come back here to Wasak. you've always
got. You've always got a family that's sitting
here waiting for you. Thank you. But maybe not
an office space. Well, I can't promise that.
There might be a cubicle out there that's open.
I can do that. Yeah, everybody can dig a cubicle
for a while. So Jane, you've been over at Crabb
for a while now. You're the executive director.
Crabb's a state agency. Just remind people what
Crabb stands for. Yep, the County Road Administration
Board. And what do you do? We oversee compliance
of county road departments. We also administer
grant funding. Those of you in the county world
that are listening today probably know us most
for that, our RAP and CAP programs. We also have
a ferry program for our four ferry counties.
Now, when you say RAP, you mean Rural Arterial
Program. Boy, I messed that up tonight. You do
it. Rural Arterial Program. It is a mouthful.
Look, you got some practice. Yep. And then the
County Arterial Preservation Program is CAP.
Okay. Then the CFCIP is the County Ferry Capital
Improvement Program. Wow. And then our emergency
loan program, ELP, is our revolving loan program
fund for those counties that need some bridge
funding as they await FEMA or other federal support.
Now, when you say bridge funding, because our
public works departments, they build bridges.
Are we talking bridge funding for like a bridge?
No. We're talking the other type of bridge funding.
That's right. Yep. As you await. Hopefully, federal
dollars, emergency dollars for your county, we
can help you in the meantime. To get from here
to there. That's correct. Yep. Perfect. Yeah.
Well, you run a lot of programs over there. We
do. And coincidentally enough, we're actually
going to talk about a new program, right? That's
right. Yeah. And you kind of unveiled this program
the last time you were here about a year ago.
That's right. We were at the start of that legislative
session. And this was your legislative priority.
It was. And you actually were successful. Congratulations.
Thank you. Yeah. So that's the local road? program
that's right the lrp the local road program boy
that's not a very good acronym no we're really
actually we're working on it if anybody has ideas
on you know a name for it that's catchy and just
rolls off the tongue let us know we have one
oh well don't act like you don't know we were
talking about we did we were talking about it
earlier yeah it's the local only roads that's
right so it's gonna be the lore the lore so it'll
be oh my gosh crab lore I love it. It's perfect,
right? It's perfect. It almost sounds like a
novel. Yeah. I mean, people will want, they're
going to be dying to know what is this crab lore.
Right. And if they were, you know, in a scary
movie and there was a bit of lore in the movie,
they might act, you know, I don't know where
I was going. They might want more. Oh, more lore?
Yeah. Okay. That was a good dad joke. I am a
sucker for a good dad joke. Oh, boy. It's been
a long day. So we're still working on the name.
Yeah. Okay. We are. We're workshopping it. Okay.
So we went from Lerp to Lor. Yeah. And I think
we might have indulged on the Lor just a little
bit. Let's talk about the program, though. So
you were able to get it authorized last year.
I was just in a meeting with Jake Fye, Representative
Fye, at lunchtime, and he... liked to remind
us and very much reminded us it was the only
new program that was authorized in the budget
last year that's right he seems either really
proud of that or just really likes to remind
that's right that's right just don't ask for
anything else for like two decades i think that
might actually be his motivation He's like, you
got what you wanted last year. Nobody else did.
Now sit down and be quiet. Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. He likes to remind me as well. Oh, okay.
So we're not the only ones. Well, we're certainly
grateful to Representative Fye and Senator Elias,
who lead the transportation programs in the House
and the Senate over there for authorizing this
program. But you didn't get any money for it
yet. Is that right? So we have money committed.
I say that in some air quotes. The idea is in
the 27 -29 biennium, $21 million has been committed.
Now, you're right. Past legislatures can't promise
what a future legislature will do. Yeah, it's
really just an intention, right? Correct. But
we're hearing good things. But one of the really
important points that I'm trying to drive home
to you, Paul, or to county commissioners or whoever
is keep talking about this so they don't forget
about that commitment. Yeah, top of mind, right?
Exactly. And having that intention. actually
memorialized in legislation, you're right. It's
not a legal requirement. It's not something they
can hold anybody accountable to other than the
fact that you could say, look, we had these discussions.
And remember back when we had these discussions,
you promised or you said, or we all agreed it
was a good idea, which helps to put political
pressure on those decision makers if they want
to go back on those decisions and not follow
through. That's exactly right. And we have been
doing a lot of work here in the interim and in
the lead up to. 2027 to show what our commitment
is and again i think to demonstrate to them we're
serious about this and that money better hit
the bank yeah on july 1st 2027 well now there's
something in the governor's budget too right
as far as governor ferguson has um proposed some
early funding for this program, right? So we,
as a part of our decision package, state agencies
submit what are known as decision packages to
the governor back in September. We asked for
$2 .2 million to get this program stood up in
this biennium. So this supplemental session,
we're asking for $2 .2 million. So why do you
need that money now? What's the benefit for getting
it now? So we want counties to be prepared to
be shovel ready in July of 2027. So we are asking
for one -time design grants. so counties can
get the work underway, and also an FTE at our
agency who is actually going to be responsible
for building this program out. So that will kind
of be a catalyst to getting the program up and
running so that when you actually do have funding,
the counties will have... uh shovel ready projects
that are already designed that's exactly right
and you'll have somebody in place who can start
doing the oversight putting the contracts together
rather than having to start that process july
1 2020 exactly we want to demonstrate to the
legislature there's a demand here and that we're
serious about getting to work because we didn't
get the full um proposal that we had asked for
we'd asked for 40 million dollars we're eternally
grateful for this 21 million we're going to get
but we want to demonstrate to policymakers crab
is an efficient place to you know put dollars
um we're going to get them out the door quickly
and uh responsibly and you know show them that
we need in excess of that 21 million. Well, Crabb
certainly has a reputation of being a good place
to put grant dollars and being a really efficient,
well -run organization, which you're doing a
great job doing that, and that predates you as
well, right? Absolutely. I can't take credit
for it. There's a long legacy kind of out there.
There's a great staff at Crabb, and I think it's
one of the best partner organizations that counties
work with on the statewide level. So kudos to
you and your team for continuing that tradition.
Thank you. Well, let's talk about the program
itself. You know, you got it authorized. We've
talked about the funding a little bit, but we
really haven't talked about what it is and what
it does. Why is it called local roads? Let's
start there. Great question. Yeah. So I love
talking about this because when you hear the
term local road, you think, well, aren't all
roads local? Yeah, aren't all roads local? Exactly.
Unless it's the freeway, isn't it always a local
road? There's actually a federal designation
of what a local road is. It's your tertiary roads
at the county level. These are these feeder roads.
You keep coming up with these hard words. I have
had to practice them in the mirror, you know,
in the morning. Tertiary, tertiary, tertiary.
You have to do those exercises with your face.
But yeah, there are these roads that feed into
your, you know, kind of your minor collectors,
your arterioles. Okay, now minor collectors,
arterioles. I got it right that time. Yep. Arterials.
Are these other classifications of roads and
are those federal classifications as well? That's
right. That's right. And so how do you determine
what? What to call a road? So dependent on how
much the volume of traffic on those roads. And
then, you know, DOT and the feds actually come
up with what those designations are going to
be. There are thresholds. There are only so many
roads that can be characterized as like a main
arterial, for example. It actually gets into
a lot of the weeds that I, not being an engineer,
I don't even know some of it, but our county
engineers certainly do. But it is a kind of a
complicated process. And these local roads make
up the vast majority of county roads. Okay. So
all roads are local, but all roads are not local
roads. That's correct. Yep. Some are, I don't
remember what you call them. Arterials, collectors.
Okay. But there's a certain classification that's
called local roads. That's correct. And most
of the reason or most of how roads are classified
is based on traffic. Yep. So traffic volume itself.
It doesn't have to do with the design of the
road, how big it is, why it is. It does as well.
But also the traffic is going to be dependent
then on how big your road is going to be. Right.
Because if you have heavier traffic or bigger
trucks or whatever, you're going to want to design
a bigger, better road. Okay. So those things
kind of lend themselves. It's really kind of
the traffic itself, the volume. Okay. So we have
different types of roads, different classifications.
Not all roads are local roads. Some are. But
really, it's the vast majority. That's correct.
So we have 78 ,000 lane miles of county roads
statewide. And just to put that into perspective,
the state system is somewhere right under 20
,000 miles. So you can just imagine how many
more lane miles we have. More than three times.
That's right. Of that 78 ,000 lane miles, around
48 ,000, 49 ,000 are local roads. Oh. So 60 -
Yeah, a little more than half. Exactly, are local
roads. And to put it even broader perspective,
one -third of all roads in the state of Washington,
city, state, county combined, are local roads.
Okay. So I'm starting to get the picture here.
I'm a little confused though. If we had, it's
funny to say I'm getting the picture, but I'm
a little confused. You'll understand it just
a second. If we have all of these local roads
classified as local roads, and they're basically
more than half of what we own and about a third
of all roads in the state. How come we're just
now getting a grant program associated with ding,
ding, ding. That's the big question. That's the
big question. And I think if you work for a county,
if you are an elected for a county, you can say,
well, that's because, you know, the state doesn't.
support us the way that they should. And the
reality is, is there's just, there's never been
a program, at least in my, to my knowledge, that
has been stood up to fund these roads. And so
it's been on the county and their capital program
to address these roads. Now, these roads tend
to be smaller. They're probably going to have
less complicated infrastructure to deal with.
You know, the arterials, those are the really
important ones that are going to carry a lot
of your freight on a daily basis, right? But
these local roads also do carry the freight and
they carry your citizens and their recreational
roads. Sure, if you're going to make a delivery
to a farm, you're going to make a delivery to
a home. Exactly. You might make a delivery to
a warehouse that's off the main road. They're
going to travel these routes at some point. So
in the past, these local roads were... supported
100 by local dollars that's correct okay so what
is this program going to do for them so this
is the like i said the first state funded grant
program for county local roads it'll be a competitive
grant program at crab a biennial program um set
up much like our other grant programs um where
you know you'll you'll come in like i said on
a biennial basis and apply uh for a grant um
and we hope to grow it over time so we can dole
out more dollars um as needed and as we see fit,
but we're pretty excited about this initial,
you know, hopefully deposit that we're going
to get. And hopefully we'll be able to start
addressing some of just the long -term, you know,
problems and just, I guess, stalemate that has
been, you know, these local road problems. The
other, I think, the talking point we've used
and the reality is... If there's a grant program
out there available, it's going to free up more
of county's capital program to drive into, whether
it's matching dollars for a different infrastructure
project, just preservation and maintenance in
general. Yeah, I was going to say preservation
and maintenance is what we always talk about.
And the reality is, is that we have had, because
county's capital programs. haven't been able
to stretch near far enough for all the infrastructure
needs they have, local roads have just been put
on the back burner. And they're often not the
priority, not because the county doesn't want
them to be, but because they have other fires
they have to put out. Right. And they get the
fewest traffic. Exactly. Right. They're not as
they're not the main thoroughfares. They don't
have as much activity on them. So it's easy to
kind of put those aside and say, hey, we really
need to address this one, because when you think
about it from a risk point of view, you get more
people using the road, you get higher risk than
you would on less. The $20 million that you've
got, how does that compare to the type of funds
that you have in the other programs that you
run? So it's about half of what the rural arterial
program is. That's funded around $40 million.
And that is why we had come in asking for $40
million, because we felt like that kind of a
good comparison. So it's going to get us jump
-started, but it's certainly, if you divide $20
million by 39 counties, you know, it doesn't
go that far. And we recognize that. So while
we're thrilled and we're excited, we know we're
going to... going to need more dollars eventually
okay and remind me again when are those dollars
coming online the 20 million july 1st 2027 okay
hopefully yes because of course you cannot bind
a future legislate uh legislature correct but
that's what's in statute now as far as an intention
okay what do you think the what are the long
-term plans i mean you're going to get started
with this 20 million what are you hoping the
program will turn into say 10 years down the
road Great question. I mean, I hope it becomes
one of these legacy programs that exist at Crabb,
like the RAP and CAP programs, that it becomes
that go -to for counties where they know that
there are going to be dollars available to them
to address their needs. I sure as heck hope it's
doubled and tripled in the next decade or 20
years. I think we haven't gone far enough, for
example, on wrap and cap. We know we need more
dollars there. So, I mean, that's going to be
something we're going to continue to push for
for all of our programs. Will there ever be enough
transportation dollars? Never, never, never,
never, ever, ever. So we all have a job, I say
it's right. Well, as long as we're driving on
roads, right? When we ever get to that flying
car kind of utopia that we've been talking about
since I was a child, that'll probably be. be
the end of that. But until then, there probably
will never be enough transportation money. That's
for sure. Well, that's exciting, Jane. It's really
cool that you were able to get that put together
last year, get that authorized in the budget.
Even though you didn't get funding, you did get
kind of a promise for future funding, which the
legislature hopefully will stand up. Or will
stand by. I think there's a good chance that
they will. They usually do on a lot of that stuff.
Even though they can't bind a future legislature,
they usually do a pretty good job of putting
in the right markers in the right places. I think
so. So that the conversation can be had and their
intentions can move forward. So that's good news
as well. And I hope you get your funding for
startup. I mentioned at the beginning that this
was the third week of the legislative session.
And here you are again. This must not be the
only thing that you're working on legislatively.
What else do you guys have in your hat this year
for legislative priorities? So, you know, we
didn't come forward with any other big budget
request, recognizing it's a supplemental and
we wanted to focus on the local roads. But the
other big, you know, talking point and what's
just everywhere right now is preservation, maintenance
and resiliency. DOT has been talking now for
the last six to eight months that they used up
all their preservation dollars last summer, their
paving season, and they've... kind of garnered
up a lot of noise and support for an additional
appropriation, this supplemental session for
them for preservation. Is it unusual that they
would use all their preservation dollars in the
first half of the biennium? It is unusual, yes.
What do you think happened? Well, I don't know
all the ins and outs of it. They said that the
climate was great in terms of both maybe the
physical climate and also the working climate,
the contracts. They were just able to get out
and get a lot of work done. So they are likely
going to get another appropriation, this supplemental,
for additional dollars. And my message to policymakers
has been you cannot leave locals out of that
conversation because we have just as much in
need as DOT. And maybe we didn't use up all our
dollars, again, air quotes, but we can certainly
put those dollars to work this coming summer
and this next season. The other thing that I
have been doing a bit is tying this preservation
conversation to resiliency, particularly in light
of the December floods on the west side. And
that was also impacted some of our central and
east side counties. Pretty dramatically, I hear.
Absolutely. And we know that there's the short
-term response that we have to make, right? But
then there's this longer -term, I think, conversation
that we need to have around why do we invest
in preservation in the first place? It's so that
we have resilient infrastructure so that when
these events happen, they stand up to those events.
And we have examples in our... counties where
they have invested in roads and bridges and culverts
that didn't blow out during this event. And so
today my board was on the Hill and we talked
a lot about that. We have examples in Skagit
and Snohomish and Whatcom counties. And I know
everywhere else where crab has invested or the
county itself has invested and you didn't have
a washout because you were able to address that
road, you know. three years ago and that's why
i think we invest today for tomorrow so i want
to make sure locals aren't left out of this broader
conversation that um you know there's a state
county partnership here that has been you know
kind of on the fray for a long time and we need
to start building that back when you say on the
fray do you mean the relationship's been deteriorating
a little bit um and and that's because In your
mind, the state's been spending more time taking
care of their problems in the transportation
sector than really worrying about the local concerns.
I think so. And I'm, you know, speaking to the
choir here today, it's not just in the transportation
sector when it comes to county needs. It's whether
it's public defense, whether it's behavioral
health, you name it. The state, my fundamental
belief is, has a commitment to counties or needs
to have a commitment to counties to pony up their
end of the deal. Regional service providers.
You could host this podcast. That's right. That's
right. And it's acute in transportation and everywhere
else. Very much so. Yeah. And this partnership,
the numbers don't lie. Historically, the state
funded significantly more transportation work
and dollars at the county level than they do
now. Well, counties are such a unique. part of
state government, county government, local government.
We're not like cities at all. Counties really
are creatures of the state. We do what they tell
us to do, right? Our authorities are based in
the authorities that are granted to us in state
law by the legislature. Essentially, we are arms
of the state. I like to call us the biggest state
agency out there. And unfortunately, we are oftentimes
one of the most neglected. Exactly. And so you
make a lot of good points there, for sure. It'll
be interesting. to see what this kind of recovery
time is from that big storm that was up there
up north, especially in December. I know that
all of western Washington was affected, but I
think some of the northern counties were hit
the hardest. And so was some of the state infrastructure
that was up there as well. Oh, absolutely. I'm
not denying that the state doesn't have a problem
here. They absolutely do. And it's going to take
resources. And I just want to make sure that
counties aren't left out of that conversation.
Well, what can we do to help? Well, you know,
I want you to keep talking about the local road
program, but I also want to make sure the local
road program doesn't make, isn't an excuse for
policymakers not to invest additional dollars
in counties. That this isn't the preservation
fix that we were looking for. That this isn't,
the local road program isn't going to fix the
infrastructure issues that we've had or the December
storms caused or, you know, whatever. We are
so grateful and thankful, but we also still have
this whole other. It's just part of the solution.
Exactly. Absolutely. Well, we'll definitely do
that. Our members, I know, agree with you. We
have many that serve on your board. As you mentioned
earlier, when we were talking before the podcast,
we have others that serve, you know, whether
it's on the curb board or the public works board,
you know, their local. transportation, you know,
RTPOs, excuse me, is what I was looking for.
There's all kinds of opportunities for our members
to be involved in transportation. And I know
a lot of them are, even on the national level
with NACO. Absolutely. We're all in this together
and we are ultimately all one system, right?
Yep. Residents don't know when they drive from
a county road to a city street to a state highway.
Nor do they care. Exactly. Yeah. They just want
to make sure that it's safe and it's there for
their use and they can go from point A to point
B. Exactly. Yeah. Well, thanks, Jane. Great to
see you as always. let's you know let's not make
this a full year if we can I agree invite me
back anytime I will I will and if you're in the
neighborhood you know just stop in and maybe
if I'm around we'll just say we'll just cut a
podcast for the heck of it and we can talk about
something I know nothing about I don't know what
that would be I don't know, maybe like fencing.
Fencing? Yeah. Well, are we talking like on guard
type of fencing? Yeah, on guard. Okay. I don't
know why I thought about that. The Olympics are
coming up, but that is not a Winter Olympic event.
That is definitely not a Winter Olympic event.
Are you much of a skier? Yeah, well, I'm turning
into one. I am really enjoying it. I'm a late
learner. I was going to say at my age. I know.
You might break a hip. I know. Well, I'm being
very careful. I am that old lady going down the
slopes while my children zoom past me. But I
decided, actually, it was my sister -in -law
that gave me some really great advice. She said,
you know, you should try to learn if your kids
are going to do it because it's an activity that
as a family you can do together. I've heard that.
As your children get older, they're not going
to want to hang out with you. on the ski slopes,
they might hang out with you. You know, we live
an hour from a major ski area in Washington State,
and I have never skied or snowboarded. I want
to see you on the slopes. Why do you laugh when
you say that? I think you might get a little
frustrated out there. Why do you say that? I'll
have you know that... Well, I can't say that
I know how to do it. I'll bet you I could learn.
Oh, you absolutely could. And you know what?
If I can learn, you can learn. I can ride a bike.
Heck yeah. Why can't I learn how to ski? You
should do it. I'm enjoying it a lot. A lot more
than I thought it was. Yeah, I can see in your
mind you're enjoying imagining me on the slopes.
I really like the lodge beer is what I really
like. Well, that would be the part that I'm an
expert on. Yeah, exactly. No, I was going to
tell you, my wife and I had thought about when
we were... raising our children kind of doing
the same thing because we had gotten some advice
from our friends who were doing that. And our
kids really kind of started to get an interest
in it, but then it kind of waned. But we became
really avid hikers and we took our kids with
us a lot. And I can tell you that that is, you
know, any sort of outdoor pursuit like that,
that you do as a family. First of all, it does
continue later, even when they're teenagers,
when you, when they can't stand you and you can't
stand them, you can be outdoors together and
it's still. And you still really remember those
times as a family. And when you're adults, it
continues as well. And what's even better is
they start doing it on their own without you
as a really healthy activity that keeps them
busy. That is a great lifestyle choice. And they
do it on their own as they get older and they
get married and they have their own families.
It will be something that sticks with them. So
I totally agree. I don't want you to break a
hip. I don't either. But I totally encourage
you and I think it's a good strategy for you
and your family. So keep it up. Wise words. Thank
you. Boy, no one says, people don't say that
about me very often. Well, Jane, it's good to
see you as always. Yeah, you too, Paul. Thank
you so much. You bet. Take care. Thanks for tuning
in to County Connection. Stay in the loop by
subscribing to us through your preferred podcasting
app and following us on LinkedIn, Facebook and
Instagram. And don't forget to join the hub,
your go to source for the latest news and updates
from the Washington State Association of Counties.
Until next time, stay connected and stay informed.