WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.140 RPJ, that's my nickname? Yeah. Those are my initials. 00:00:03.140 --> 00:00:05.660 Yeah. If we call you that, then it's a nickname. 00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:08.699 If we address you that way. No one's ever called 00:00:08.699 --> 00:00:12.060 me that. I just heard Jamie call you that. You 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:17.339 did? Yes. Where was I? She was calling down the 00:00:17.339 --> 00:00:20.980 hallway. So you weren't there. That would be 00:00:20.980 --> 00:00:25.280 why I've never heard anybody call me that. Welcome 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:27.579 to County Connection. the official podcast of 00:00:27.579 --> 00:00:29.559 the Washington State Association of Counties, 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:31.940 where we dive into the legislative issues shaping 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:34.380 the future of our communities. From budgets to 00:00:34.380 --> 00:00:37.320 public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.960 break down what's happening in Olympia and how 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:41.939 it impacts counties from across the Evergreen 00:00:41.939 --> 00:00:45.060 State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join 00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:47.640 us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:52.270 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the County 00:00:52.270 --> 00:00:54.250 Connection podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, your host 00:00:54.250 --> 00:00:56.090 and government relations director for the Washington 00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:58.640 State Association of Counties. Well, we're in 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:01.320 week two of the legislative session. Today is 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:03.939 Wednesday evening. It's a little after five o 00:01:03.939 --> 00:01:06.599 'clock and I've got Kelsey Hulse, one of our 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.560 consultants, one of our policy consultants here 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:13.060 on contract. Kelsey's doing some land use work 00:01:13.060 --> 00:01:15.500 for us this year, along with other exciting things 00:01:15.500 --> 00:01:18.379 like energy and cannabis and a little salmon 00:01:18.379 --> 00:01:21.159 recovery here and there. Kelsey, how are things 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:25.090 going so far this session? Well, Paul, I have 00:01:25.090 --> 00:01:28.230 to dispute one fact you stated so far. It feels 00:01:28.230 --> 00:01:33.510 like it's about day 64 or 312 of the legislative 00:01:33.510 --> 00:01:36.569 session. It is? It sure feels that way. I don't 00:01:36.569 --> 00:01:39.709 think it is. We're only in week two. I don't 00:01:39.709 --> 00:01:42.909 know. I'm pretty sure. I get the feeling that 00:01:42.909 --> 00:01:45.530 you're feeling. Trust me, we're all feeling. 00:01:46.170 --> 00:01:50.129 But I think we're only on day maybe 10. Not even 00:01:50.129 --> 00:01:53.700 day. Well, maybe 10. We started on the 12th. 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:58.359 Today is the 21st. So yeah, we're on day 10, 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.379 if you count day 12. We made it to double digits. 00:02:00.700 --> 00:02:03.599 Hard to believe. Yeah. We're actually getting 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:05.760 pretty close to the first cutoff because it's 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:08.099 only a 60 -day session. That thing is coming 00:02:08.099 --> 00:02:10.180 right around the corner. We're halfway there, 00:02:10.300 --> 00:02:14.020 actually, surprisingly enough. So you never said 00:02:14.020 --> 00:02:17.139 how things were going. Things are going well. 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:22.550 Good. I think it is the sense that this session 00:02:22.550 --> 00:02:25.870 has been chock -a -block with activity is shared 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:31.370 across legislators, staff, and the lobbying corps. 00:02:31.550 --> 00:02:34.389 There's just a lot happening. We saw a lot of 00:02:34.389 --> 00:02:36.590 pre -filed bills and then have continued to see 00:02:36.590 --> 00:02:39.110 a pretty high volume of introductions. What is 00:02:39.110 --> 00:02:44.599 up with the intro sheets? Holy smokes. Every 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:46.979 day I'm certain that they're going to start dropping 00:02:46.979 --> 00:02:48.840 off because, like I said, we're halfway to cutoff. 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:51.860 It's only a week away at this point. But they're 00:02:51.860 --> 00:02:55.840 not. They're not. And I think it's not just the 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:59.539 volume that is noteworthy, but also the level 00:02:59.539 --> 00:03:01.960 of ambition in those bills. Very ambitious, yeah. 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:06.780 Big policy ideas, expensive things in a tough 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:08.939 budget year, right? There just doesn't seem to 00:03:08.939 --> 00:03:12.439 be much. There's no governor on the process there. 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.159 Well, by governor, you don't actually mean Governor 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.099 Ferguson. You mean like the governor, like a 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:22.860 speed governor on a golf cart. That's what you 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:25.080 mean. I mean like a restrictor plate in an engine. 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:27.599 We do actually have a governor. Yeah, I just 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:31.319 wanted to make that clear. Yes, sorry. No worries. 00:03:31.699 --> 00:03:34.860 So you want to talk about some county development 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:38.539 bills today. Correct. Lay it on us. We're all 00:03:38.539 --> 00:03:45.750 ears. talk to you about UGAs and development 00:03:45.750 --> 00:03:48.530 in the UGAs. And UGA stands for? Urban Growth 00:03:48.530 --> 00:03:51.250 Area. Perfect. What could and could not be developed 00:03:51.250 --> 00:03:54.030 in the urban growth area of any given county. 00:03:54.729 --> 00:03:58.050 What was pointed out to me by our dear colleague 00:03:58.050 --> 00:04:02.810 Curtis is that development patterns or the development 00:04:02.810 --> 00:04:04.990 patterns that legislators tend to focus on are 00:04:04.990 --> 00:04:08.050 not just in UGAs, but we also tend to see this 00:04:08.050 --> 00:04:13.139 in LAMRDs. Yeah, and a LAMRD is? A local area 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:17.399 of more intense rural development. Almost. Almost. 00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:20.279 You want me to tell you what it really is? Sure. 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.639 Limited area of more intensive rural development. 00:04:25.149 --> 00:04:28.089 I know. You were so close. Oh, listeners, if 00:04:28.089 --> 00:04:30.290 you could just see his face, he was so happy 00:04:30.290 --> 00:04:32.569 that I got that wrong. You were so close. I had 00:04:32.569 --> 00:04:35.170 a prize here for you, and now I'm going to eat 00:04:35.170 --> 00:04:36.670 it. That he wanted to keep himself, clearly. 00:04:37.569 --> 00:04:40.589 Anyway, Lammards and UGAs have drawn a lot of 00:04:40.589 --> 00:04:42.730 attention in the last few years. We've seen lots 00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:45.769 of bill activity. Mostly around housing. Correct. 00:04:48.230 --> 00:04:51.430 It's largely the tension between... Where you 00:04:51.430 --> 00:04:54.310 build all the housing that we need. Right. And 00:04:54.310 --> 00:04:57.350 how we maintain the open space that is, you know, 00:04:57.350 --> 00:04:59.930 partly what makes Washington such an extraordinary 00:04:59.930 --> 00:05:02.629 state and also. Because the legislature has really 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:05.629 been focusing on housing, but they've been really 00:05:05.629 --> 00:05:10.009 focusing on housing in cities. Right. A lot less 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:13.329 so. And you can tell just by the tools that they've 00:05:13.329 --> 00:05:16.350 produced in urban growth areas that are outside 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:20.189 cities and a lot less so in Lambert's. Just this 00:05:20.189 --> 00:05:22.410 idea that the cities is where they want everything 00:05:22.410 --> 00:05:26.050 to grow. But if we're going to talk about, you 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:29.699 know, just kind of the basic. of supply and demand 00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:32.360 and economics, if you really constrain where 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:34.639 the supply can go, you're going to get higher 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.759 prices, right? You need to be more flexible if 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.920 you want to not just address supply, but also 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.319 affordability, especially from a market rate 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:48.459 perspective. So we have, as an association, worked 00:05:48.459 --> 00:05:51.910 hard to try to build extra tools. in those areas 00:05:51.910 --> 00:05:54.649 so that we had more flexibility. Is that what 00:05:54.649 --> 00:05:57.709 are we seeing bills along that vein this year 00:05:57.709 --> 00:05:59.850 or are they different? The bills that we're seeing 00:05:59.850 --> 00:06:05.430 are trying to provide either guidance for cities 00:06:05.430 --> 00:06:08.930 and counties as they are developing in more rural 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:14.670 areas or trying to prohibit what legislators 00:06:14.670 --> 00:06:20.360 see as sort of bad actors or Patterns of development 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:23.199 that they think are not conducive to either maintaining 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.959 open space and viable habitat or reaching our 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:29.079 housing goals. So give me an example of what 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:33.240 they would think is a bad actor or non -compatible 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:37.139 development. For example, House Bill 2201, which 00:06:37.139 --> 00:06:40.459 had a hearing in local government and that we 00:06:40.459 --> 00:06:43.279 testified. to our concerns. We actually testified 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:45.680 opposed to that bill. The bill would require 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:49.019 counties to align their zoning and development 00:06:49.019 --> 00:06:54.839 regulations in their UGAs with cities, with the 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:56.779 nearby cities. Yeah, we have some counties that 00:06:56.779 --> 00:06:58.319 do that, and we have some counties that don't 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:01.259 for a variety of different reasons. And what 00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:06.209 we heard in testimony was that There were some 00:07:06.209 --> 00:07:08.709 either cities that were frustrated with their 00:07:08.709 --> 00:07:13.009 counties or vice versa, that there were adjacent 00:07:13.009 --> 00:07:15.370 jurisdictions who hadn't come to an agreement 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:18.509 around what those development patterns might 00:07:18.509 --> 00:07:21.310 look like. So you're saying in some places, the 00:07:21.310 --> 00:07:24.709 cities and the counties don't get along? I mean, 00:07:24.730 --> 00:07:27.149 you said it, not me. I find that hard to believe. 00:07:27.189 --> 00:07:31.490 It's shocking. Yeah, that is very rare here in 00:07:31.490 --> 00:07:34.009 Washington State. It is very rare. And I think... 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:37.079 You're... sort of joking, but I think that's 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:40.500 true, that in most cases, what you're seeing 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.620 are some sort of meeting of the minds, right? 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:45.259 Whether it's through an interlocal agreement. 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:47.519 A lot of times, yeah, around development there 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:49.680 is. I mean, but general disagreement between 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.240 the city and county, that's pretty much just 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.420 tradition. I was going to say, that's just for 00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:56.860 good fun. Yeah, that's just, you really don't 00:07:56.860 --> 00:07:58.600 have a city and county relationship if you don't 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:06.579 have disagreement. isolated instances where there 00:08:06.579 --> 00:08:09.259 isn't agreement or there is fundamental disagreement 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:12.879 about what that should look like okay so what 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.519 they're trying to do is is what the legislature 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:17.879 is trying to do in many ways is force that conversation 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:22.850 all right And just for our members' information, 00:08:23.350 --> 00:08:25.850 the sponsor has asked that that bill not move 00:08:25.850 --> 00:08:28.790 forward. One thing that we made very clear was 00:08:28.790 --> 00:08:30.470 that if counties were going to put in the work 00:08:30.470 --> 00:08:33.830 to align zoning and development regulations with 00:08:33.830 --> 00:08:37.649 adjacent cities, then we needed the cities to 00:08:37.649 --> 00:08:40.850 also have some consideration in that agreement 00:08:40.850 --> 00:08:44.500 and potentially be ready to annex those. those 00:08:44.500 --> 00:08:47.200 areas in a reasonable timeframe. Yeah. Right. 00:08:47.259 --> 00:08:49.080 So if we're going to put in the time effort and, 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:52.480 um, and work to get those ready for that process, 00:08:52.539 --> 00:08:55.000 then it needs to go somewhere in the end. Yeah. 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:57.840 Yeah, for sure. I mean, if you develop to an 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.440 urban standard, typically the County isn't well 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.240 suited as the service provider any longer. It's 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.480 the city that is right. And the whole idea behind 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.840 designating urban growth areas and requiring 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.250 that they be. um, built to an urban standard 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:13.169 is because those are supposed to be the 20 year 00:09:13.169 --> 00:09:16.190 growth boundaries for the city. So, you know, 00:09:16.190 --> 00:09:18.570 if you build it and the people come, the city 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:21.549 is supposed to take it on. And that's the piece 00:09:21.549 --> 00:09:23.169 that hasn't been happening, which is why you 00:09:23.169 --> 00:09:27.860 get a lot of resistance by counties. Um, you 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:30.500 know, to require these development standards 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:32.740 within their UGAs because there's no guarantee 00:09:32.740 --> 00:09:34.940 that the city's going to come along and take 00:09:34.940 --> 00:09:37.279 responsibility for that afterwards. And in fact, 00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:40.240 in many, many, many, many cases, and we can show 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.679 example after example after example, it doesn't 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.720 happen. And they actually intentionally annex 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.360 around these neighborhoods because they are costly 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.159 to take care of, right? And they leave that. 00:09:52.750 --> 00:09:56.309 to the county and it's confusing to the residents 00:09:56.309 --> 00:09:58.470 because they think they're in the city when they're 00:09:58.470 --> 00:10:00.950 not. It's confusing to them because they live 00:10:00.950 --> 00:10:04.389 in an urban environment and expect urban services 00:10:04.389 --> 00:10:07.990 and the county struggles to deliver those. And 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:10.929 then, you know, essentially the rest of the county 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:13.590 residents end up paying the price to provide 00:10:13.590 --> 00:10:17.590 that extra level of service to these urban quote 00:10:17.590 --> 00:10:20.769 unquote residents who aren't paying. the full 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:23.070 cost of that service. So they're getting it subsidized. 00:10:23.110 --> 00:10:26.070 So it's really a bad deal for counties. Right. 00:10:26.970 --> 00:10:31.250 Especially the bill as it was written really 00:10:31.250 --> 00:10:33.950 has counties on the hook for quite a bit, cities 00:10:33.950 --> 00:10:36.789 on the hook for nothing. So because this is a 00:10:36.789 --> 00:10:39.730 partnership. I think one of the things that we 00:10:39.730 --> 00:10:42.190 did really well on that bill was make that clear 00:10:42.190 --> 00:10:43.990 to the sponsor, that if it's going to be a partnership, 00:10:44.149 --> 00:10:47.809 there needs to be some equity across that partnership 00:10:47.809 --> 00:10:49.549 agreement, right? If we're going to do this, 00:10:49.549 --> 00:10:50.529 then you're going to do this. Got to share the 00:10:50.529 --> 00:10:54.289 load if it's a partnership. Exactly. So more 00:10:54.289 --> 00:10:56.730 to come on that, flagging it for members, because 00:10:56.730 --> 00:11:00.590 it is part of a longer conversation around how 00:11:00.590 --> 00:11:04.470 do we deal with these areas that need to be annexed? 00:11:04.730 --> 00:11:07.289 Cities are going to be seeking funding to help 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:09.750 support those annexations. Probably not going 00:11:09.750 --> 00:11:12.779 to get it this year. Again, part of a longer 00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:15.919 conversation and one that Representative Parsley, 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:17.620 the sponsor of that bill, is very interested 00:11:17.620 --> 00:11:22.039 in being part of in the interim. So we will stay 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.480 tuned and stay involved and keep members informed 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.580 as to where that goes. Yeah, great. Representative 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:30.639 Parsley, by the way, only her second year, her 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:33.120 second session, first term, she's got a lot of 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.059 bills this year. And a lot of them deal with 00:11:35.059 --> 00:11:38.320 local government issues. Yes. And Representative 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.600 Parsley is a former city council member. That 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:42.009 makes a lot of sense. sense, obviously. So she 00:11:42.009 --> 00:11:44.110 spent a number of years on the Olympia City Council. 00:11:44.230 --> 00:11:47.350 And in fact, I saw her today and gave her a hard 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:49.470 time about the number of bills she had, which 00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:52.190 I pegged at 30, and she informed me it was only 00:11:52.190 --> 00:11:55.909 23. Only 23. Well, that's a lot of bills for 00:11:55.909 --> 00:11:58.370 one legislator. It sure is. In a 60 -day session, 00:11:58.409 --> 00:12:01.370 especially. Wow. Well, good for her. What else 00:12:01.370 --> 00:12:05.970 you got for us today? Yeah, I'll also flag Senate 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:12.019 Bill 6026, which is a A bill that prohibits cities 00:12:12.019 --> 00:12:14.299 and counties, cities and or counties from requiring 00:12:14.299 --> 00:12:18.320 mixed use or ground floor commercial as a condition 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.019 of residential permitting. And so that's, again, 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.440 a desire to see more dense residential development 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.399 because what legislators are hearing from the 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:32.600 development community as well as some cities 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.679 is that mixed use residential just isn't selling 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:38.659 right now. It's just hard to fill, right? So 00:12:38.659 --> 00:12:44.210 you've got these. empty, aspiring, whatever, 00:12:44.409 --> 00:12:47.649 restaurants or... dry cleaners or grocery stores 00:12:47.649 --> 00:12:50.070 or whatever it is that you want it to be is just 00:12:50.070 --> 00:12:52.909 not being occupied. And so then you have kind 00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:54.929 of a building above with nothing on the ground 00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:57.610 floor. But the building above is usually... So 00:12:57.610 --> 00:12:59.470 what you're talking about, and there's been a 00:12:59.470 --> 00:13:04.450 push on this type of mixed use, kind of neighborhood 00:13:04.450 --> 00:13:07.809 pod type of walkable community development, right? 00:13:07.889 --> 00:13:11.389 By cities and in urban areas. So you could potentially 00:13:11.389 --> 00:13:13.690 also have this in urban growth areas around cities. 00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:17.299 There was a big push to do a lot of this work 00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:21.879 for many, many years because people could not 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:23.419 just live and work in their neighborhood, but 00:13:23.419 --> 00:13:25.039 also shop in their neighborhood, get most of 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.299 what they wanted. So you'd reduce vehicle trips, 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:33.379 reduce commute times, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.200 reduce wear and tear on highways, et cetera, 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:39.000 et cetera. They're saying that the market right 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.039 now isn't supporting that. And so is that a good 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:46.029 reason to? Make it illegal to do? Is that what 00:13:46.029 --> 00:13:48.230 this bill does? Is it actually prohibits that 00:13:48.230 --> 00:13:50.789 sort of design development from taking place? 00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:55.210 It prohibits counties or cities from requiring 00:13:55.210 --> 00:13:59.049 it, from requiring ground floor retail or commercial 00:13:59.049 --> 00:14:06.429 as a condition of permitting or zoning. So if 00:14:06.429 --> 00:14:09.500 you're in a mixed -use zone... That's a very 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:12.320 interesting strategy and kind of a heavy -handed 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:16.480 one on the part of the legislature. I mean, the 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:23.679 entire point of planning and the basis for the 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.840 GMA is kind of this ground -up process where 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.399 a community develops the way they want to develop. 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:33.240 A community decides what they want to look like. 00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:36.799 I mean, what if you're a Leavenworth, right, 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.440 or something like that where you've got these 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.960 really, really strict design standards in certain 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:43.460 areas throughout your community? I mean, is that 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:47.019 not allowed under this bill or similar things 00:14:47.019 --> 00:14:49.399 like that not allowed under this bill because 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:54.139 the state just doesn't, you know, want to let 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:59.389 local kind of freedom and identity? be the way 00:14:59.389 --> 00:15:02.789 of the future? I mean, what message are they 00:15:02.789 --> 00:15:05.169 sending here? It's a little bit confusing to 00:15:05.169 --> 00:15:09.669 me. I think the bill is silent on chalets as 00:15:09.669 --> 00:15:12.250 design choices. Well, what about Western towns 00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:14.850 like Winthrop? I'm joking, of course. Well, I 00:15:14.850 --> 00:15:16.870 don't know about that either. I'm just saying. 00:15:16.990 --> 00:15:21.049 I mean, that's a very strange thing to basically 00:15:21.049 --> 00:15:25.309 say you cannot require, in my mind. I think it's 00:15:25.309 --> 00:15:28.669 important to... always to remember that legislators 00:15:28.669 --> 00:15:31.070 are always hearing from a variety of constituents. 00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:33.870 And they do have folks that are coming to them 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:37.070 and saying, hey, but for this requirement, I 00:15:37.070 --> 00:15:39.750 would have put housing here. I would have made 00:15:39.750 --> 00:15:41.970 it all housing. But what if the city doesn't 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:44.990 want that all to be housing right there? What 00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:47.669 if they want, what if they have this vision for 00:15:47.669 --> 00:15:51.809 this walkable community long term? I mean, isn't 00:15:51.809 --> 00:15:54.330 it a city and a local community's right to make 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:57.450 those choices? Under the GMA? I mean, it's supposed 00:15:57.450 --> 00:16:00.490 to be, and it is now. At the moment? Yeah, the 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:04.549 legislature is going to say no. I think the legislators, 00:16:04.769 --> 00:16:08.090 and again, kind of playing devil's advocate is 00:16:08.090 --> 00:16:10.950 not the right term, but I think what they would 00:16:10.950 --> 00:16:14.110 say is that the emergency, the housing emergency 00:16:14.110 --> 00:16:17.929 is such that it requires extraordinary efforts 00:16:17.929 --> 00:16:20.690 to get the number of units online that we want 00:16:20.690 --> 00:16:23.379 to see. And so this is one of the ways that they're 00:16:23.379 --> 00:16:25.919 trying to do it, not endorsing or detracting 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.200 from the approach, but that is the hope there. 00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:58.580 Keep in mind that the King County Urban UGA is 00:16:58.580 --> 00:17:02.600 not a standard or consistent across the state. 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.700 Right. Right. That Brennan and Chimicum and, 00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:11.420 you know, Packwood look very different from what 00:17:11.420 --> 00:17:13.599 a lot of legislators might have in their mind's 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.039 eye as the kind of place that they're trying 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.440 to foster this development. And that each of 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:21.950 those... The UGA in Moses Lake looks very different 00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:26.410 from the UGA in Renton or near Renton. It's a 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:28.769 struggle because the majority of legislators 00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:33.910 come from that very urban Puget Town core. They 00:17:33.910 --> 00:17:36.650 just do. And so that is their frame of reference. 00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:39.029 I always sarcastically say the state of Washington 00:17:39.029 --> 00:17:41.250 is far more than what you can see from just the 00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:44.349 top of the Space Needle. But that is their point 00:17:44.349 --> 00:17:46.390 of view oftentimes, right? That is their perspective. 00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:50.349 And a lot of this sort of thing that they bring 00:17:50.349 --> 00:17:52.710 forward really just doesn't make sense outside 00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:55.210 of that environment. And I think part of our 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:59.069 work will continue to be making those places 00:17:59.069 --> 00:18:03.789 real for them, right? Not just a list of development 00:18:03.789 --> 00:18:07.309 conditions or a list of places, but how do we 00:18:07.309 --> 00:18:09.569 bring them, whether it's bringing them to see 00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:13.710 those places, Whether it's through, I don't know, 00:18:13.769 --> 00:18:17.170 video or pictures or what, but we really have 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:21.269 to make those places alive in their minds so 00:18:21.269 --> 00:18:23.549 that they can see not just kind of what they 00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:25.450 look like and what they feel like, but how they've 00:18:25.450 --> 00:18:27.509 changed over time and how they've developed over 00:18:27.509 --> 00:18:30.809 time and the type of needs that the broader community 00:18:30.809 --> 00:18:34.799 has from those, you know, smaller. more densely 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.180 developed spots. And as we're talking about this 00:18:37.180 --> 00:18:39.059 and we're having this conversation, it just makes 00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:41.619 me want to remind our listeners who are our members 00:18:41.619 --> 00:18:44.420 how important it is for them to talk to their 00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:47.259 legislators about these items, right? And to 00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:49.779 encourage their legislators to take the stories 00:18:49.779 --> 00:18:52.400 that they give them and talk to their colleagues 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.279 there on the Hill, because that's the only way 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.140 that that message is going to get conveyed. There's 00:18:57.140 --> 00:18:59.279 a lot of legislators who aren't from the greater 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.279 Puget Sound region. They're not from that urban 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:05.440 environment. They have this sort of experience, 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:08.259 but they don't necessarily understand how some, 00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:10.440 you know, if you're not a planning expert, right, 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.700 or you're not a building permitting expert, you 00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:14.880 know, or you don't serve on these committees, 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:16.799 you don't necessarily know how these things might 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.799 affect your community. So it's just really important 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.140 for those of you who are from those other environments 00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:25.259 when we're talking about bills like that, like 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:29.079 this. to take that extra time and reach out and 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.059 talk to your legislators, talk to your senators, 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.500 talk to your representatives, and make sure that 00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:36.339 they understand how these things affect your 00:19:36.339 --> 00:19:39.240 community. And I would say even beyond that, 00:19:39.339 --> 00:19:43.579 to invite legislators to take a walk with you, 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:48.250 right? Take a walk through. UGA area, whatever 00:19:48.250 --> 00:19:51.210 it is in your community, and talk through why 00:19:51.210 --> 00:19:54.009 you've made the decisions you have, why this 00:19:54.009 --> 00:19:57.029 place looks the way that it does, and what kind 00:19:57.029 --> 00:19:58.910 of value it presents to the broader community. 00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:02.990 Because these are very diverse and complex types 00:20:02.990 --> 00:20:05.789 of places. So help arm them with the knowledge 00:20:05.789 --> 00:20:07.849 and the information and the language that they 00:20:07.849 --> 00:20:09.630 need to be able to take that back to their colleagues. 00:20:09.650 --> 00:20:11.309 Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.720 Well, you work on a lot more than land use. You 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:21.559 work on energy. You work on cannabis issues for 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.599 us. And I'm super excited to hear about those, 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.680 but we don't have time today. Maybe next time 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.440 you come by, we can talk a little bit about energy. 00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:32.400 There's a lot of energy bills that are being 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.720 heard this year and could affect counties from 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:40.319 energy production and tax issues related to that 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.609 to transmission and permits. issues, et cetera. 00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:46.410 So maybe next time we can chat about a few of 00:20:46.410 --> 00:20:48.230 those. Does that sound good? I'd love to. Sounds 00:20:48.230 --> 00:20:50.910 electric. I knew you were going to say that. 00:20:52.190 --> 00:20:54.630 All right. Sounds good. Well, I don't have a 00:20:54.630 --> 00:20:56.369 better tagline than that. So I'm just going to 00:20:56.369 --> 00:20:58.430 sign off, Kelsey. Thanks for joining us today. 00:20:59.210 --> 00:21:01.829 And we'll see you shortly, probably just in a 00:21:01.829 --> 00:21:05.099 day or two to talk. I was going to try to come 00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.599 up with something clever like some extra volts 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.279 or something, but that was totally lame. Yours 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.279 was way better than mine. Just didn't have the 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.039 spark. I didn't. I didn't. But maybe you can 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.119 bring something that will shock me. I'll do my 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.160 best. I got it. Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Kelsey. 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.549 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. Stay 00:21:22.549 --> 00:21:24.309 in the loop by subscribing to us through your 00:21:24.309 --> 00:21:26.650 preferred podcasting app and following us on 00:21:26.650 --> 00:21:29.470 LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. And don't 00:21:29.470 --> 00:21:31.450 forget to join The Hub, your go -to source for 00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:33.190 the latest news and updates from the Washington 00:21:33.190 --> 00:21:35.849 State Association of Counties. Until next time, 00:21:35.890 --> 00:21:37.609 stay connected and stay informed.