WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620 bill this morning got to testify on with regards 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:09.759 to federal inmates and county jails nice sort 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:12.640 of how that works so when you say i got to testify 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.039 it was my honor on behalf of the association 00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:17.899 to testify and that's that's that's the proper 00:00:17.899 --> 00:00:22.019 attitude to have welcome to county connection 00:00:22.570 --> 00:00:24.429 the official podcast of the Washington State 00:00:24.429 --> 00:00:26.829 Association of Counties, where we dive into the 00:00:26.829 --> 00:00:28.809 legislative issues shaping the future of our 00:00:28.809 --> 00:00:31.690 communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure 00:00:31.690 --> 00:00:34.630 to elections, we'll break down what's happening 00:00:34.630 --> 00:00:37.409 in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across 00:00:37.409 --> 00:00:40.509 the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged, 00:00:40.649 --> 00:00:43.509 and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 00:00:43.509 --> 00:00:48.679 39 counties. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:51.079 to the County Connection podcast, a very special 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:53.100 podcast today. We have some breaking news for 00:00:53.100 --> 00:00:57.579 you right fresh from the legislature here in 00:00:57.579 --> 00:00:59.100 Olympia. I'm Paul Jewell. I'm the government 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:02.799 relations director and host of the podcast. And 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.879 I've brought in Brad Banks, who works on law 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:11.019 and justice issues as well as, well. Community 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:14.299 safety, criminal justice. Behavioral health, 00:01:14.420 --> 00:01:16.260 the whole gamut. The bill just dropped yesterday. 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.579 It's Senate Bill 6239 from Senator Manka Dhingra. 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:22.700 Senator Dhingra is from the Seattle area. Kirkland 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:25.959 area. Kirkland area, King County. And she is 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.120 the chair of the Senate Law and Justice Committee, 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:31.780 right? That's correct. Now, we heard that she'd 00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:34.000 been working on something. And Brad, you and 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.859 I had been working on something as well with 00:01:35.859 --> 00:01:39.640 a bunch of other people. If you go back to our 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:41.560 conversation, with the Legislative Steering Committee 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.439 in the fall, one of the things that they really 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:46.439 identified this year as something they wanted 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:48.459 us to work on was tort reform. That's right. 00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:50.719 Right, was liability. Liability has been driving 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.219 costs for counties for quite a while now, for 00:01:53.219 --> 00:01:57.180 several years, and we were really kind of focusing 00:01:57.180 --> 00:02:00.920 on a fiscal, not a fiscal sustainability initiative, 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:02.980 but a fiscal relief initiative. Yeah, a version 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:04.739 of it, yeah. And we were adding a few things 00:02:04.739 --> 00:02:07.079 to that, and they just said, yeah, liability 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:11.479 reform, like it was no big deal. Right. Huge 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:13.819 subject. Huge issue with lots of players. Yeah. 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:16.580 And so we put together during the interim and 00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:18.500 in the fall, kind of in the lead up to the session, 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:20.139 a big group of people. And we've been talking 00:02:20.139 --> 00:02:22.780 about this issue. And we've been talking about, 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:27.500 okay, we had heard that the state was going to 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:29.139 try to address a problem that they had, right? 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.120 They're looking at about a $500 million bill 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:35.319 this year and up to like $3 billion in the next 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:37.699 couple of years. And where's that coming from? 00:02:37.939 --> 00:02:40.340 Yeah, no, exactly. Maybe to your point, I think 00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:42.840 part of the reason maybe both the LSC, our legislative 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:46.740 steering committee, and we here at staff on WASAC 00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:48.280 were sort of hearing there was interest at the 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:50.120 state to have this conversation. So we definitely 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:52.360 wanted to try to. strike while they aren't as 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:54.659 hot if we could, so to speak. Yeah, because liability 00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:56.479 reform is not a popular subject. No, especially 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:58.780 not. I mean, and it's a huge issue. And to do 00:02:58.780 --> 00:03:00.819 that during a short session with a budget shortfall, 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.099 right? I mean, right. It just didn't seem like 00:03:03.099 --> 00:03:04.180 that was going to be something in the cards. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.400 So why don't you just ask us to lasso the moon? 00:03:06.500 --> 00:03:08.180 Right. Well, exactly. Right. I mean, I'm sure 00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:10.199 you can have a podcast with Jamie on vaccines 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:12.819 or whatever, and it'd be a similar conversation. 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:15.719 Just try to do those big policy changes in an 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:17.639 environment like this. But it felt like there 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:19.120 was going to be a moment. But there did. Yeah, 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:21.379 we could kind of feel it building. I think. And 00:03:21.379 --> 00:03:24.039 to your point. Yeah. So the state, you know, 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:27.659 has as a result of numerous lawsuits that a lot 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:31.199 of them starting many, many years ago and a lot 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:33.659 of them in the juvenile justice system resulting 00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:37.159 in significant jury awards as those folks have 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:39.580 either become adults or whatever and brought 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:42.650 the state. to trial on these issues, which have 00:03:42.650 --> 00:03:44.530 resulted in massive payouts. And they're looking 00:03:44.530 --> 00:03:47.069 at big payouts down the road, too. I think that 00:03:47.069 --> 00:03:51.270 is a big player, a big catalyst as to why they're 00:03:51.270 --> 00:03:53.509 trying to address this, because I think they 00:03:53.509 --> 00:03:55.009 are reading the tea leaves and saying, whoa, 00:03:55.150 --> 00:03:58.370 this is unsustainable for us now, and in the 00:03:58.370 --> 00:04:00.050 future, we don't know how we handle this. Yeah, 00:04:00.050 --> 00:04:02.150 and there was a report today that mentioned this 00:04:02.150 --> 00:04:04.750 bill, and it... It mentioned a potential liability 00:04:04.750 --> 00:04:07.569 by 2030, I think, of like another $3 billion. 00:04:07.889 --> 00:04:10.409 Yeah, which... With a B. Yes. $3 billion just 00:04:10.409 --> 00:04:12.610 for the state, right? And of course, we have 00:04:12.610 --> 00:04:15.330 our own members who have liability issues all 00:04:15.330 --> 00:04:17.189 over the place, right? You know, governments 00:04:17.189 --> 00:04:20.279 just by the... Just by the nature of government, 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.319 we provide a whole host of services that are 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:24.600 fairly risky. That's right. We incarcerate people. 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.319 Some of the riskiest, frankly. We have probation, 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:29.100 so we supervise people, right? That's right. 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:32.500 We build roads and bridges that people drive 00:04:32.500 --> 00:04:34.800 on every single day, and that's fraught with 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:38.660 risk, right? Yep. We have law enforcement agencies, 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:41.540 tons of risk there, and we do those things because 00:04:41.540 --> 00:04:45.540 no one else can, no one else will, right? And 00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:47.519 we're mandated to do it by the states. I was 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:48.800 going to say, yeah. We're the administrative 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:50.620 arm of the state that's doing that work. Right. 00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:53.060 And that has in the way that our system works 00:04:53.060 --> 00:04:54.680 here in Washington. So liability is just kind 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:56.220 of built into the way we do things. It is. It's 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:57.980 part and parcel for everything that we do. So 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:00.540 it makes a lot of sense if you think about it, 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:02.019 right? And we've been talking about this with 00:05:02.019 --> 00:05:05.060 the group. Why would we just allow unlimited 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:08.540 liability against our state and local governments 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:10.300 when we know that those are mandated services 00:05:10.300 --> 00:05:12.439 that we have to provide that the society needs 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:14.540 and no one else will? And they're inherently 00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:17.839 risky. But in Washington. We do. Yeah, we do. 00:05:17.939 --> 00:05:20.240 I mean, our Constitution doesn't allow us to 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:22.379 have caps on damages. Well, and I think in the 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:24.980 I don't know if it was a press release or interview 00:05:24.980 --> 00:05:27.060 that Senator Dhingra did as she released this 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:28.839 bill. I mean, she was pretty blunt in saying. 00:05:29.610 --> 00:05:31.829 In her estimation, and I think in a lot of people's, 00:05:31.829 --> 00:05:34.149 Washington is far more exposed because of our 00:05:34.149 --> 00:05:36.250 current state laws than just about any state 00:05:36.250 --> 00:05:39.870 in terms of liability exposure on a variety of 00:05:39.870 --> 00:05:41.490 issues, whether that's at the state level or 00:05:41.490 --> 00:05:44.189 at the local level. And flat out acknowledge 00:05:44.189 --> 00:05:45.850 that, that we've just created an environment 00:05:45.850 --> 00:05:48.329 here that's very susceptible to this scenario 00:05:48.329 --> 00:05:50.230 that we're finding ourselves in. If you're a 00:05:50.230 --> 00:05:52.550 personal injury lawyer. Yeah, it's a business. 00:05:52.769 --> 00:05:54.750 You want to practice. Washington is your bread 00:05:54.750 --> 00:05:57.170 and butter. Yeah. I mean, you know, these jury 00:05:57.170 --> 00:05:59.389 awards that we're seeing. Are massive. They're 00:05:59.389 --> 00:06:01.170 massive, and they've been climbing year over 00:06:01.170 --> 00:06:04.329 year over year, and our liability insurance costs 00:06:04.329 --> 00:06:07.290 for local governments have basically been on 00:06:07.290 --> 00:06:09.149 the same trajectory. That's right. Yeah, and 00:06:09.149 --> 00:06:13.129 this has really been hamstrung since the early 00:06:13.129 --> 00:06:15.709 days when back in the 80s there was a court case 00:06:15.709 --> 00:06:19.149 that said you can't put caps on penalties for 00:06:19.149 --> 00:06:22.050 these type of court cases. Yeah, that was Sophie 00:06:22.050 --> 00:06:24.930 versus Fiberboard. That's it. There you go. Sorry. 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:27.209 That's okay. I was wondering if you remembered 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:29.220 or if I should throw it out there. For those 00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:31.920 of you who love to read court decisions, they're 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.180 a little nerdy like Brad and I are. Sophie versus 00:06:34.180 --> 00:06:35.939 Fiber Board, Washington State Supreme Court. 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:37.980 Yeah, I think it was 89? Yeah, it was in the 00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:39.839 80s. 85, 89, something like that. Yeah, basically 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:44.740 it was a finding that caps... actually violated 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:47.279 the right to a jury trial. Violated our state 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.120 constitution. Right. Yeah. Right. Because the 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:52.360 right to a jury trial is a civil right in the 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:54.540 federal constitution. That's right. But it's 00:06:54.540 --> 00:06:56.100 also reaffirmed in the state's constitution. 00:06:56.300 --> 00:06:58.959 That's right. Yeah. And the idea was, not the 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.740 idea, the ruling by the Supreme Court was, and 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:04.060 I'm going to butcher, I'm sure, the right terminology. 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:06.199 All we know is the name of the case, Paul. Let's 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:08.939 not pretend to be lawyers here. Well, the fact 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:10.899 that we're not lawyers makes us uniquely qualified. 00:07:10.899 --> 00:07:13.310 It does. You're getting authentic. Absolutely, 00:07:13.350 --> 00:07:16.089 because, I mean, we don't have to – we have no 00:07:16.089 --> 00:07:17.930 credentials. That's right. So just take this 00:07:17.930 --> 00:07:19.670 for what it's worth. We can say whatever we want. 00:07:20.129 --> 00:07:21.810 And no one's going to hold us accountable. No, 00:07:21.850 --> 00:07:23.069 I mean, come on. Because there's nothing for 00:07:23.069 --> 00:07:24.410 us to be – No fact -checking on these podcasts. 00:07:24.610 --> 00:07:26.230 That's not what we're – we don't allow that. 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:28.949 Absolutely right. But in Selfie vs. Fiber Board, 00:07:29.029 --> 00:07:31.829 I have read it a couple of times, and the finding 00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:35.389 was that essentially if you place caps on the 00:07:35.389 --> 00:07:37.649 awards, you're interfering with the jury's ability 00:07:37.649 --> 00:07:42.500 to assess the damages and to basically – um provide 00:07:42.500 --> 00:07:45.220 a judgment as to what the value of those damages 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:49.220 that's right um and so since that time we haven't 00:07:49.220 --> 00:07:53.100 had caps right uh at any level uh against any 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:55.639 claim tort claim against local state government 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:58.699 or otherwise here in washington state so um which 00:07:58.699 --> 00:08:01.220 we have which is why we have started to see and 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:03.060 i don't think this term is inappropriate sort 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:06.000 of astronomical judgments that are just i mean 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.939 they're just massive a huge at levels that no 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:12.069 local No local government, certainly, but even 00:08:12.069 --> 00:08:13.949 the state is now realizing they can't absorb. 00:08:14.189 --> 00:08:16.310 Well, think of some of the claims that are driving 00:08:16.310 --> 00:08:17.930 these costs right now that the state's reacting 00:08:17.930 --> 00:08:20.769 to, right? I mean, honestly, it is the claims 00:08:20.769 --> 00:08:25.009 against DCYF, right, for foster care and juvenile 00:08:25.009 --> 00:08:28.250 rehabilitation abuse. That's right. That happened, 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:32.070 you know, more than... 18, you know, 10, 18, 00:08:32.250 --> 00:08:35.950 20, 30 years ago. They took the legislature, 00:08:36.169 --> 00:08:38.429 removed the statute of limitations, right, which 00:08:38.429 --> 00:08:42.190 is good for victims. Yeah. But not so great for 00:08:42.190 --> 00:08:44.789 the taxpayers who are going to make these payouts. 00:08:44.809 --> 00:08:46.990 And if you think about sitting in front of a 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:52.470 jury and having a pretty. relatable victim in 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:55.710 front of them and telling a horrible story about 00:08:55.710 --> 00:08:58.750 abuse. And many of these stories are heart -wrenching. 00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:02.350 I mean, put yourself in that jury's seat, right? 00:09:02.470 --> 00:09:04.909 Yeah, you become inflamed, right? And you want 00:09:04.909 --> 00:09:08.889 to punish, right? And you want to punish to the 00:09:08.889 --> 00:09:11.549 point where it hurts so badly that it doesn't 00:09:11.549 --> 00:09:14.110 happen again. That's right. And then you add 00:09:14.110 --> 00:09:16.669 numbers to the fact that there's just... Exactly. 00:09:16.690 --> 00:09:21.789 Case after case after case. Right. But, you know, 00:09:21.830 --> 00:09:23.590 again, we're talking about services provided 00:09:23.590 --> 00:09:26.389 by governments that no one else would provide. 00:09:26.669 --> 00:09:28.309 And they need to be functional. We have to have 00:09:28.309 --> 00:09:30.669 governments that can function. Right. They have 00:09:30.669 --> 00:09:33.509 to. And crippling them with fines and fees and 00:09:33.509 --> 00:09:36.470 penalties. Yeah. And while we all bleed for the 00:09:36.470 --> 00:09:39.049 victim. 100%. Right. That's not the issue. We 00:09:39.049 --> 00:09:42.529 have to be. I guess, what's the right word without 00:09:42.529 --> 00:09:45.610 sounding totally countless? I know. Measured 00:09:45.610 --> 00:09:47.429 was sort of what I was thinking. But even then, 00:09:47.570 --> 00:09:50.309 I mean, agreed. This isn't a statement about 00:09:50.309 --> 00:09:56.690 the pain and the injury inflicted on these individuals. 00:09:56.690 --> 00:09:59.190 All very real. Very real and deserving of both 00:09:59.190 --> 00:10:03.850 recognition and frankly, you know, some type 00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:07.080 of, you know. Compensation. Compensation or remedy 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:08.860 or whatever. I agree. I mean, you know, and so 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.159 I don't think anybody's take – at least we're 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:12.899 not taking that off the table. I think what we're 00:10:12.899 --> 00:10:16.039 just saying is that it's become such a – it's 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:21.120 almost become a – it's almost like we're – it's 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:22.779 almost monopoly money to some degree, right? 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:24.340 That it's sort of like we just – it's getting 00:10:24.340 --> 00:10:28.539 to the point where – Numbers are so big they 00:10:28.539 --> 00:10:30.259 don't feel real. Yeah, they just don't feel real. 00:10:30.299 --> 00:10:33.539 That's right. But they really are. But they are 00:10:33.539 --> 00:10:35.899 real. Right, they are. And the impact of that 00:10:35.899 --> 00:10:38.679 on a local government in particular, I mean, 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:40.460 some of these judgments are getting to the point 00:10:40.460 --> 00:10:43.059 where they could start to, you know. outpace 00:10:43.059 --> 00:10:46.580 entire budgets right well government and the 00:10:46.580 --> 00:10:48.940 reality is you know juries hear those numbers 00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:51.940 right and then they get a case right you hear 00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:53.480 those right it builds on itself and then you 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:54.940 get a case you're like well you know the last 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:56.559 three cases were these numbers you know it's 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:58.580 50 million dollars well we'll do 60 this yeah 00:10:58.580 --> 00:11:00.759 it's almost like negotiating a contract you know 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:02.860 you know what i mean well obviously the going 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:06.710 market rate is x right uh and that Right or wrong. 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:08.990 It creates a culture of this type of judgment. 00:11:08.990 --> 00:11:11.470 Yeah, that's what's been happening. And so here 00:11:11.470 --> 00:11:15.230 we are, state governments in the same place that 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:18.409 we're feeling our governments are as far as county 00:11:18.409 --> 00:11:21.149 governments go. And we're just seeing these liability 00:11:21.149 --> 00:11:25.389 costs just... Stratospheric. Out of control. 00:11:25.649 --> 00:11:30.429 Now, along comes Senate Bill 6239. We were thinking 00:11:30.429 --> 00:11:32.690 and had heard a lot of rumors this year. We had 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:35.750 a lot of pre -conversations with the governor's 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:38.409 office and our group, which included us and cities 00:11:38.409 --> 00:11:40.370 and a whole bunch of other stakeholders. And 00:11:40.370 --> 00:11:43.350 we talked about some strategies like sovereign 00:11:43.350 --> 00:11:46.490 immunity, right? Like what are some of the other 00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:49.649 strategies? An alternative tribunal for tort 00:11:49.649 --> 00:11:52.620 claims. We talked about... looking at joint and 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:55.139 several liability, right? We talked about maybe 00:11:55.139 --> 00:11:57.480 even a constitutional amendment. That's a crazy 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:01.419 idea. And then also, you know, we toyed with 00:12:01.419 --> 00:12:03.240 the idea of caps, but, you know, not knowing 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:04.919 how to get around. That was one of the original 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.100 idea kind of was like, maybe we just float this 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:10.019 again, you know, taking what legislation had 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.899 recently passed in the state of Oregon, where 00:12:11.899 --> 00:12:14.899 they capped much of their kind of delved back 00:12:14.899 --> 00:12:17.440 into the sovereign immunity conversation, as 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.919 well as trying to. kind of rein in some of these 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.740 judgments by providing caps and things. And I 00:12:24.740 --> 00:12:26.639 think we found out pretty quickly, as I know 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.399 you, as you were doing research on that, that 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:30.519 there's probably going to be legal issues with 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:34.139 that down in Oregon. And so we kind of knew that 00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:35.940 we would probably have to anticipate that here 00:12:35.940 --> 00:12:38.860 as well if we went down that approach. But I 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:41.200 think the thinking right was... At a minimum, 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:42.759 this is a starting point for a conversation, 00:12:42.980 --> 00:12:44.460 right, to just kind of say this is where you've 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:47.240 left us in this environment where we've got to 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.980 look at solutions. And, yeah, maybe they'll be 00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:51.419 challenged in court, but we've got to start. 00:12:51.710 --> 00:12:54.190 trying to figure it out and just testing the 00:12:54.190 --> 00:12:56.389 waters. Yeah, because it almost felt like, so 00:12:56.389 --> 00:12:58.169 it feels like a really big issue and it feels 00:12:58.169 --> 00:13:00.649 like a really tough one to take on. But, you 00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:02.769 know, it also feels like if we don't do it, who's 00:13:02.769 --> 00:13:04.450 going to do it? Right. Right. If we don't stand 00:13:04.450 --> 00:13:06.789 up and say, you know, this has got to, we've 00:13:06.789 --> 00:13:08.990 got to come to some level of reasonableness here. 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:11.029 You know, who is going to, it's not going to 00:13:11.029 --> 00:13:13.190 be the lawyers. No. Right. You know, they're 00:13:13.190 --> 00:13:15.590 getting paid. Right. Because a lot of them are 00:13:15.590 --> 00:13:17.450 working on a contingency basis with these cases. 00:13:17.470 --> 00:13:18.789 A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, 00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:24.259 it's purely, It's purely a conversation of, you 00:13:24.259 --> 00:13:27.039 know, it's sort of justice meets good governance, 00:13:27.259 --> 00:13:28.980 right? It is kind of the conversation that we're 00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:30.919 sort of having to deal with. And that's a hard 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:32.740 conversation to have when you're talking about 00:13:32.740 --> 00:13:34.960 people who have experienced some of the things 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:36.799 that they've experienced. And not just the old 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:40.120 DCYF cases, but any scenario where somebody feels 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:43.740 like they've been injured in whatever way by 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:46.600 a governmental entity or some branch of a government 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:50.840 or department or whatever. While also understanding 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:55.299 that while the scenario may be true and accurate 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.139 and requires attention, the government still 00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:00.620 has to function and operate a variety of services 00:14:00.620 --> 00:14:03.639 for a lot of people day in and day out, 24 hours 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:07.120 a day, seven days a week. And so it really has 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:10.440 created almost an untenable situation where how 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.759 do we continue to do these services that we don't 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:15.220 have a choice to do, that we have to do, and 00:14:15.220 --> 00:14:19.000 that, frankly, people expect? while also recognizing 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:21.279 that it just creates this massive exposure to 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.379 us at any given moment. So getting back to the 00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:26.700 bill. Yeah, sorry. No, you're great. 6239 comes 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:29.600 along, and we had talked about these solutions. 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.419 We'd heard some rumors. We'd had our conversations. 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.200 We didn't expect to fight this bill. We didn't. 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:37.679 I'll tell you the honest truth. I was sitting 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:39.820 in that hearing, in a hearing yesterday up on 00:14:39.820 --> 00:14:41.500 the hill. I was shocked. And I see this email 00:14:41.500 --> 00:14:44.000 come across my – I'm looking at my phone. I see 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.799 this email, and I went. was this supposed to 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.799 be to me? Am I like, is this a real bill? Like, 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.799 are they doing this? Right. And I look and I 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.019 think, oh, it is. It's Senator Dinkerson. Yeah. 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.460 Right. And so I texted you, I think. And I was 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:59.279 like, hey, did you see this? And you're like, 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.679 yes, I saw it. We need to talk about this. So, 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.620 yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely caught us. off 00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:07.019 guard, but in a good way. Yeah, and if you're 00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:10.580 noticing a little excitement in our voices, it's 00:15:10.580 --> 00:15:13.299 because it's a good bill for local governments. 00:15:13.419 --> 00:15:14.919 I mean, we were expecting something that would 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:17.559 be very tailored to the problem that they were 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:21.500 facing. Very specific to older claims that really 00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:24.799 had to do with child sexual abuse or something 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.759 like that. We were hoping it would involve local 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:29.879 government. I think we were expecting that we 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.240 have to fight for that. Yeah, we were expecting 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.500 to have to fight for that. Expecting that the 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:36.149 state state would probably just address the state's 00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:38.649 problem. But this bill is much broader than that. 00:15:38.649 --> 00:15:42.789 Tell us what the bill does. Well, essentially 00:15:42.789 --> 00:15:49.000 what the bill does is allows for... creation 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.899 of an arbitration process, essentially, that 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:56.039 allows, it sort of creates a pre -trial sort 00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.899 of scenario where these type of cases, I don't 00:15:58.899 --> 00:16:00.220 even know if that's the right terminology. Well, 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:02.820 kind of. It's kind of like that alternative tribunal 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:04.399 solution that we were talking about with the 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.299 broader group. Exactly, right. That sort of allows 00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:09.110 for these cases to be sort of... for lack of 00:16:09.110 --> 00:16:10.750 a better term, sort of adjudicated and settled 00:16:10.750 --> 00:16:14.710 outside of going to a jury process, which is 00:16:14.710 --> 00:16:17.129 really where these massive settlements end up 00:16:17.129 --> 00:16:18.909 happening, is through that jury process. So it's 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.269 a way of sort of expediting, you know, maybe 00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:26.870 both, you know, there's guilt maybe agreed to 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:30.289 by the parties. Yeah, someone screwed up, something 00:16:30.289 --> 00:16:32.269 happened. Right, right. Nobody's debating that. 00:16:32.289 --> 00:16:33.909 There were damages. Right, there's damages. And 00:16:33.909 --> 00:16:36.549 so it's a way to sort of... Try to get that, 00:16:36.549 --> 00:16:41.889 you know, sort of handled and remedied in a concise, 00:16:42.250 --> 00:16:45.070 more manageable and reasonable way. While also, 00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:47.799 frankly, you know. saving everybody a lot of 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:49.879 money from having to go to court, having to go 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:51.580 through the whole process, get attorneys, I mean, 00:16:51.580 --> 00:16:53.440 do all the... Saves a lot of money on both sides. 00:16:53.620 --> 00:16:56.019 On both sides, potentially, right. While also 00:16:56.019 --> 00:16:58.480 allowing the injured party to feel like they 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.919 have a process to be heard and to have their 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:05.279 issue settled. So, yeah, I mean, and the fact 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.180 that it extends that not just to, like you said, 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.500 old cases or something very narrow, and not just 00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:14.210 to the state, but actually is... fairly wide 00:17:14.210 --> 00:17:15.890 ranging, just about, I think, to essentially 00:17:15.890 --> 00:17:20.049 all types of liability that we might. And county 00:17:20.049 --> 00:17:21.869 and city government. And both county and city 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:24.589 government. What's interesting about it is there's 00:17:24.589 --> 00:17:30.609 no claim minimum or maximum. Nope. So it's all 00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:32.710 claims of all kinds. That's right. All torts. 00:17:32.730 --> 00:17:34.690 That was a part that really caught me off guard. 00:17:34.750 --> 00:17:37.569 Right. And all both the state government. And 00:17:37.569 --> 00:17:39.710 the inclusion of us. And city and local. And 00:17:39.710 --> 00:17:41.170 the inclusion of us. Other local governments. 00:17:41.329 --> 00:17:45.049 So essentially, just to shortcut it, because 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:47.630 you gave a very good longer description. Any 00:17:47.630 --> 00:17:49.950 tort claim has to go through arbitration first. 00:17:50.349 --> 00:17:52.430 First. Yes. Before they can file a lawsuit. You're 00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:54.529 right. That's a more concise way to say it. Well, 00:17:54.529 --> 00:17:57.109 I like to be concise. I tend to be a little verbose. 00:17:57.230 --> 00:17:59.829 And I'm a man of few words. So between the two 00:17:59.829 --> 00:18:02.289 of us, you get a good middle -of -the -road answer. 00:18:02.730 --> 00:18:07.660 So how does this help? How does this help local 00:18:07.660 --> 00:18:09.400 governments? How does it help the state government? 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:14.519 I mean, what is the remedy aiming to do here 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:16.420 exactly? I mean, you kind of got to it a little 00:18:16.420 --> 00:18:18.240 bit. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a few things, 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.759 right? I mean, one, I think it's a meaningful 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.799 way to try to dramatically rein in the number 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.940 of potential jury trials that you might have 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:30.779 to. Well, that's a cost savings. Right. Right 00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:33.259 out of the gate. Right. On a lot of levels. Yeah. 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:38.930 Right. But also, I think in a positive way, is 00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:41.109 a very, which, you know, I think the other thing 00:18:41.109 --> 00:18:42.150 you have to remember when you go to trial is 00:18:42.150 --> 00:18:44.210 that can take years, right? These things can 00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:46.490 go on for a really long time. Well, and it's 00:18:46.490 --> 00:18:49.210 so unpredictable with a jury. Right. I mean, 00:18:49.210 --> 00:18:51.630 any trial lawyer will tell you. Yeah. Yeah, if 00:18:51.630 --> 00:18:53.769 we're going to go to the jury, we're rolling 00:18:53.769 --> 00:18:55.750 the dice. Every time. Yeah. Right, every time. 00:18:55.789 --> 00:18:57.970 Both sides would say that, right? And so, yeah, 00:18:58.089 --> 00:19:00.609 I mean, I think so by giving the option of a 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:05.180 guaranteed process that's timely, responsive, 00:19:05.579 --> 00:19:09.880 and can get the outcome that I think serves everybody 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.420 better while also potentially, like you said, 00:19:12.460 --> 00:19:14.079 saving cost and time and doing all these other 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.059 things, that's potentially a win -win for everybody 00:19:16.059 --> 00:19:18.859 involved. It doesn't mean that justice doesn't 00:19:18.859 --> 00:19:21.960 happen. It doesn't mean damages aren't awarded. 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.740 It doesn't mean – it just allows it to happen 00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:28.440 in a way that is potentially much more controlled, 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.359 much more contained, and in an expedited and 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:34.299 – effective way which i think everybody would 00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:37.160 agree is the right way to go yeah um what do 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:38.240 you think the trial lawyers are going to say 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.400 yeah they're not going to like it okay i don't 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:45.440 think do you um no I mean, right. I mean, because. 00:19:45.579 --> 00:19:47.940 Yeah. I mean, if I'm a trial lawyer, you know, 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.680 I've I've got if I'm if I'm a trial lawyer, I've 00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:54.099 got Washington state in the bullseye of my dartboard. 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.880 Right. Yeah. I mean, and I'm thinking, you know, 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.180 any any victim I can get, you know, that can 00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:03.140 file a suit against Washington state is a payday 00:20:03.140 --> 00:20:05.799 and potentially a big fat one. And the worse 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.799 I can make it sound look, the bigger that payday 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.440 is going to be. Exactly. I mean, yeah. And I 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.220 think just. Just generally speaking, I mean, 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.240 I think they have always been very resistant 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.559 to any kind of, you know, changes or rollbacks 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.039 or modifications to, you know, the current liability 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:26.140 system. And tort, you know, any tort reform effort 00:20:26.140 --> 00:20:28.740 has generally been met with, you know, not a 00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:30.700 warm reception from the trial attorney. So I 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:32.119 wouldn't expect that necessarily on this either. 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:34.259 Well, politically speaking, they're a major, 00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:36.799 major supporter. They are. Of the state Democratic 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:38.859 Party. So this will be an interesting discussion. 00:20:38.859 --> 00:20:41.900 Agreed. And I think also. partly why we were 00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:43.380 surprised. That's not private information. That's 00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:45.460 public. No, not at all. And that's been widely 00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:48.420 reported as well. No, and I think this has always 00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:50.519 been much more of a Republican issue, frankly. 00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:51.880 I mean, I think we've seen these issues come 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.400 up more and more by Republicans. But interestingly, 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.000 to see it not only from a Democrat, but also 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.660 in a... politically charged environment. Well, 00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:05.779 did you see the other names on that bill? I did. 00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:08.700 It's kind of fascinating. Some attorneys. Some 00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:10.440 attorneys. That are part of that Democratic Party. 00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:12.640 Well, Dhingra herself is an attorney. The major 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:19.019 budget writers are on that as well. The chair 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:22.079 of the Transportation Committee has signed onto 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.059 the bill. So, I mean, these are the who's who 00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:26.579 of the Democratic Party in the state legislature. 00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:28.319 Well, and I would add into that. I mean, I think 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.799 I was talking to you before we started doing 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.859 the... the pod that, you know, it appears that, 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:35.039 you know, there's been a lot of conversations 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.079 happening in the governor's office as well. Who 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.480 is also a former attorney himself. That's right. 00:21:39.619 --> 00:21:42.140 And most of his office, it seems like now in 00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:43.559 the governor's office is filled with attorneys. 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:46.319 Right. So that's really interesting. It is. It's 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.240 fascinating. Yeah. And again, I think gets to 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.079 why this is such an interesting surprise here 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:52.920 in the second week of session to sort of see 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.519 this kind of come down the pike. Well, I think 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.079 it's a nice surprise. Yeah. I mean, normally 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:00.039 we don't, normally they aren't nice surprises. 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.589 Yeah. That's what I would say. Give and take. 00:22:03.750 --> 00:22:05.670 Yeah, there's some good, some bad. You've got 00:22:05.670 --> 00:22:07.809 to take the good with the bad. But what I mean 00:22:07.809 --> 00:22:10.289 from a nice surprise is you've got a governor 00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:13.329 who's a former attorney. You've got a prime sponsor 00:22:13.329 --> 00:22:15.910 who's also a former attorney. Maybe she still 00:22:15.910 --> 00:22:17.349 practices. I don't know her that well. No, she 00:22:17.349 --> 00:22:20.109 was a prosecutor. Prosecutor, okay. You've got 00:22:20.109 --> 00:22:22.569 a state Democratic Party that's in charge up 00:22:22.569 --> 00:22:24.869 there, and the trial lawyers are one of their 00:22:24.869 --> 00:22:27.369 biggest supporters. You've got almost every other 00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:29.759 prominent Democrat in leadership signing. up 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.240 on this bill, including some other attorneys. 00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:34.480 I mean, this thing looks like it's poised to 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:38.599 move in a short session. And it's just now been 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:41.059 introduced. It's already scheduled for a hearing 00:22:41.059 --> 00:22:43.779 next week on Tuesday. I know. And they've already 00:22:43.779 --> 00:22:45.599 put it on a schedule for an executive session 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.500 to vote it out of committee two days later. They 00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:49.200 have indeed. It looks like they mean business 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:50.940 on this bill. I think they do. And I think the 00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:53.779 reason they do is because the stakes are so high 00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:55.559 with regards to our current budget environment. 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.450 I mean, I think if anything, If anything, we 00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:03.109 should have predicted maybe a little more that 00:23:03.109 --> 00:23:07.009 this budget environment is so bad at the moment 00:23:07.009 --> 00:23:10.849 in terms of – it's not so much that we're in 00:23:10.849 --> 00:23:13.009 a bigger hole than we've ever been in as a state. 00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:14.990 We've gone through ups and downs, and that's 00:23:14.990 --> 00:23:18.410 not new. But I think the pressure right now is 00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:22.420 so – uncertain in terms of both revenue and what's 00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:26.480 left, right? What stones are left to squeeze 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.700 blood from are really starting to be limited, 00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:32.779 right? And so it really has moved to a conversation 00:23:32.779 --> 00:23:35.980 of we've got to try to contain cost. And this 00:23:35.980 --> 00:23:38.960 is just a major driver of cost. And I think if 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:40.519 you're the legislature at some point, you have 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:43.140 to go. The only way we get this done is by doing 00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:45.019 something like this. And sometimes that's a sad 00:23:45.019 --> 00:23:48.619 reality. It waits until it's almost, you know, 00:23:48.619 --> 00:23:52.160 right. But so let's, before we go, let's talk 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.420 about that a little bit, because what do you 00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:56.740 say to the victims advocate groups that are, 00:23:56.740 --> 00:23:58.180 because they're going to come out on this bill, 00:23:58.339 --> 00:24:00.539 right? What do you think? Are they going to support 00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:02.839 it? Are they going to be, it's interesting. I 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:06.200 was trying to think about that myself. And what 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:09.079 do you say to them? Well, I mean, I think if, 00:24:10.410 --> 00:24:12.829 I can understand the suspicion, and I can certainly 00:24:12.829 --> 00:24:16.329 understand the desire, especially, I mean, not 00:24:16.329 --> 00:24:18.150 to, I don't know how to say this without making 00:24:18.150 --> 00:24:21.170 it sound like, you know, if you're looking at 00:24:21.170 --> 00:24:23.089 what judgments have been, right, if you're looking 00:24:23.089 --> 00:24:26.490 at precedent and what's out there, you know, 00:24:26.509 --> 00:24:30.690 you could see somebody not wanting to, you know, 00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:32.890 wanting to take their chances with a jury trial, 00:24:33.089 --> 00:24:35.269 right, and maybe potentially going that route. 00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:37.960 And nothing in this bill really stops that from 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:39.200 happening. It doesn't. No, that process is still 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.119 there. You just got to go through arbitration 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:43.079 first. You just got to go through arbitration 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:48.599 first. And I would imagine that there's a benefit. 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.980 And I suppose how you would try to kind of persuade 00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:53.720 some of these individuals that this is actually 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:56.859 in their favor is sort of. You know, you have 00:24:56.859 --> 00:24:59.079 a chance to go through all of the process that 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:01.059 you sort of would have had to really wait to 00:25:01.059 --> 00:25:05.000 do in a trial and get it done in a way that is 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.099 both. It just sort of puts the issue behind you 00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:10.480 quicker, right? It does, yeah. I mean, it's like 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.640 you have the chance to sort of make your case, 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:15.660 figure out the scenario, talk about, you know. 00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.319 Get made whole. Get made whole, right, whatever 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.519 that is, if that's possible, right? And then 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.900 move on with your life, right? And I do think 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:28.059 there's an element of that that I imagine that 00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:30.359 would appeal to a certain number of people in 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.259 terms of whether that will be mass appeal, I 00:25:32.259 --> 00:25:35.240 don't know. But I do think at a minimum, at least. 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.279 having an option for that which is what this 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:40.259 bill basically creates i mean it's a mandatory 00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:42.019 option but it's still an option in the sense 00:25:42.019 --> 00:25:44.740 that you and what i mean is you can still go 00:25:44.740 --> 00:25:47.740 to trial you can refuse to you know it doesn't 00:25:47.740 --> 00:25:49.880 say that if you you know you don't have to this 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.359 doesn't have to be resolved in this in this format 00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:54.859 right but it forces you to at least take it under 00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:56.940 consideration and to go through the process and 00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:58.779 you may find that once you go through that process 00:25:58.779 --> 00:26:01.740 that it it's it satisfies you right and that 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:03.460 you consider it done and you don't want to be 00:26:03.460 --> 00:26:07.220 drawn out into a multi -year, very expensive 00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:10.420 process, like you said, which is always a roll 00:26:10.420 --> 00:26:12.279 of the dice at the end of the day. Yeah, because 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:13.680 you could end up with nothing. You could end 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.680 up with nothing except really high legal bills 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.099 on top of your potential pain and suffering. 00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:20.059 Which would be a terrible outcome. Agreed. Yeah, 00:26:20.180 --> 00:26:22.680 for everybody. You know, for me, and I've talked 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.680 to a lot of people about this, and we've had 00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:26.279 a lot of conversations about this with the broader 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:28.940 group, and I think you can probably confirm this. 00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:32.579 No one has, in any of those conversations, no 00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:35.009 one has said, Victims should not be compensated. 00:26:35.029 --> 00:26:38.769 You know, it's always about we want to make sure 00:26:38.769 --> 00:26:41.559 that. If we make mistakes, because we will. Yeah. 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.099 I mean, we will. You know, these are dangerous 00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:46.420 things that we're doing. Law enforcement, right? 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:51.660 Custody, you know, ITA. Jail environments. Corrections. 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:54.359 Behavioral health issue. I mean. Supervision. 00:26:54.539 --> 00:26:57.839 Yeah. And the list of roads. Yeah. Just roads. 00:26:58.059 --> 00:27:00.079 Roads. All you have to say is roads. Every time 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.819 we build an intersection and a bridge, you know, 00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:03.539 you sweat every time, right? That's right. These 00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:05.859 things are going to happen, and they're part 00:27:05.859 --> 00:27:08.539 of the tragedies of life. And sometimes. you 00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:10.920 do need to hold someone responsible for that 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.119 because there was negligence involved. Sometimes 00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:14.839 there's an accident and sometimes there's negligence. 00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:17.140 Right, exactly. And it's important to make sure 00:27:17.140 --> 00:27:19.359 that the victims are compensated if they can 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:22.599 be. And, you know, if it's a small thing and 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:24.880 they just need to be made whole, you know, and 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:26.440 you can just write a simple check. You're just 00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:28.259 able to get that out of the system. That's great. 00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:30.900 If it's a long -term thing, then absolutely that 00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:32.579 should be compensated for. They should be cared 00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:35.079 for appropriately. But I think all of us can 00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.980 say and probably agree that, lottery ticket type 00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:44.799 awards aren't moral. They're just punitive. And 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.359 it goes back to, they're not a good way to run 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.279 governments. And they're not fair to the taxpayer. 00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:53.559 That's exactly right. And so at the end of the 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:56.960 day, you really are, I think, trying to make 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.259 an argument that this is actually better for 00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:04.680 everyone in the sense that No tool is being taken 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.460 off the table, but everybody is getting a chance 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:11.579 to remedy a bad situation quickly and cleanly 00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:16.480 and with the minimum impact to either the state 00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:18.619 or a county or a city that still has to keep 00:28:18.619 --> 00:28:20.640 providing those services no matter what. Just 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.380 because this court trial is going on doesn't 00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:26.200 mean that we stop doing road work or we stop. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.579 We can't stop. Right, or we stop. We have no 00:28:28.579 --> 00:28:30.779 choice. Doing law enforcement work or doing work 00:28:30.779 --> 00:28:32.400 in our jails or doing behavioral health work 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.599 or any of these other things that we do all the 00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:36.720 time. I mean, there's just not – that doesn't 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.700 stop because there's been an incident. And so 00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:41.900 I think – Yeah, a private business makes a big 00:28:41.900 --> 00:28:44.380 mistake like that. They can completely stop and 00:28:44.380 --> 00:28:46.319 retool and do something different. They can make 00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:48.299 that business choice. That's right. We cannot 00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:48.980 make that business choice. We don't have that 00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:51.779 option, right. And so the ability to have a way 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:54.579 to steward – I think this is just a better way 00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:58.569 to steward. not only our responsibilities and 00:28:58.569 --> 00:29:01.849 our obligations and to own up when mistakes are 00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:04.309 made, but also a better way to steward the funds 00:29:04.309 --> 00:29:06.990 that the taxpayers give government to use on 00:29:06.990 --> 00:29:09.710 their behalf. All right. Yeah, well, Brad, thanks 00:29:09.710 --> 00:29:11.349 for stopping in. That's my speech. Yeah, I appreciate 00:29:11.349 --> 00:29:15.490 that speech. Going on the record, 6239. There 00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:16.930 it is. Should they pass it or should they not 00:29:16.930 --> 00:29:18.470 pass it? Oh, they definitely should pass it. 00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:20.509 Yeah, I agree. Yeah. In fact, you know, well, 00:29:20.609 --> 00:29:22.829 yeah. All right. Well, thanks, Brad. Thanks for 00:29:22.829 --> 00:29:24.869 the time. Appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon. 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:29.220 Catch you later, everybody. Thanks for tuning 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:31.460 in to County Connection. Stay in the loop by 00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:33.799 subscribing to us through your preferred podcasting 00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:36.519 app and following us on LinkedIn, Facebook and 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:38.700 Instagram. And don't forget to join the hub, 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:40.920 your go to source for the latest news and updates 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:43.119 from the Washington State Association of Counties. 00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:46.000 Until next time, stay connected and stay informed.