Furiously? It's going fast and furious. Fast
and furious. Fast. Fast and furious? So in this
fast and furious state that you're in at the
moment. I'm Vin Diesel in this situation is what
I'm trying to. Without a doubt. Yeah, without
a doubt. Without a doubt. Yeah. Welcome to County
Connection, the official podcast of the Washington
State Association of Counties, where we dive
into the legislative issues shaping the future
of our communities. From budgets to public safety,
infrastructure to elections, we'll break down
what's happening in Olympia and how it impacts
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informed, stay engaged, and join us as we amplify
the voice of Washington's 39 counties. Welcome
back, everybody, to the County Connection podcast.
I'm Paul Jewell, your host and government relations
director for the Washington State Association
of Counties. We're still here in Olympia in the
first week of the session. It's actually Friday.
It's a beautiful day outside, but we're in the
studio and I've got Travis Dutton. Travis, how
are things so far? You know, things are good.
First week was intense. Covering some new topic
areas and having to really make sure I understand
the breadth of those topic areas. Yeah, you've
got some stretch goals this year a little bit.
Yeah, big stretch goals, both personally. I'd
love to be more able to stretch and touch my
toes and things like that, but also professionally.
Yeah, the older we get. I'm always envious of
the people at like 45 can touch their toes. Right?
Yeah. Oh, you just tie your shoes that easily?
Cool. Good for you. Yeah, I'm kind of like grown
just to tie my shoes. Yeah. I just started asking
strangers. Hey, while you're down there. Hey,
kid, come here. Can you help a brother out over
here? While you're tying your shoes, could you
also get mine, please? That's good. Do the young
people know how to tie, or are you instructing
them simultaneously? I usually don't approach
strangers. I usually don't approach young people
to ask. That's not what you just told us, though.
I said strangers. I approach strangers. Just
strangers, not necessarily children. No, not
necessarily. Oh, thank you. That's good to know.
That's good to know. All right. Well, Travis,
you are. covering some new areas for us this
year. And I know we're going to have a chance
to get into that this session, but we're going
to go back to an old favorite and just really
talk about a couple of bills in the solid waste
kind of arena that are important to the work
that we're doing this year. I know that kind
of EPR or product stewardship has been a theme.
geez, it feels like for the last, maybe almost
the last decade in solid waste where legislation
is concerned. Are you still seeing that kind
of proposal coming forward this year? Yeah, we're
seeing a lot of similar types of proposals and
even some proposals that go back and potentially
fix or update bills that were passed. within
the last 10 years or so. So some fixes or some
adjustments based on what they've learned. Any
shoe -related EPR bills just to keep on the theme
of tying your shoes and that sort of thing? Or
are they for other things? You know, that's a
good question because one of the things we're
going to talk about is a textiles bill. So I
guess it is kind of shoe -related. Yeah. It doesn't
specifically... I need to go through and understand
if whether the material that shoes are made out
of fall under this textiles bill. But I don't
know. Nothing has come out specific to shoes
or footwear. or boots, or anything that I've
seen so far. But I will do a little bit more
digging into this textile bill and make sure
that everybody's shoes are bound for the proper...
End of life location. Sounds good. So just to
remind the folks who are listening, a product
stewardship program is one where the manufacturers
are actually made responsible for the end of
life management of the product that they produce.
Right. So like last year, we had a big sweeping
bill that's going to have major impacts in the
next several years on our solid waste management
systems. And that was for product packaging and
for paper products. Right. And so. It puts the
onus on the manufacturers of any type of product
packaging out there, whether it's a can or a
cup or, you know, those plastic, what do they
call those, blister packs or vacuum seal packs?
Or clamshells. Yeah, those clamshells, boxes,
no matter what it is. The boxes your shoes come
in. Exactly. Perfect. Yeah. Full circle, buddy.
Nice job. Nice job. County connections. Yeah.
Oh, wow. People online are groaning right now,
the people who are listening. But getting back
to the point, the manufacturers of those products
in Washington State can be held responsible.
They do that through what's called a PRO, right?
A Producer Responsibility Organization. And what
does that organization do? So the Producer Responsibility
Organization is an independent nonprofit agency
that's funded by the producers, and their job
is to help. beef up the existing infrastructure
to make sure that there's enough places for people
to take things from that packaging bill. It would
be largely the things that are going into your
recycling bin, shoe boxes, et cetera. And good
examples of that, like right now are the paint
stewardship program that was passed a few years
ago, right? We have stuff, we have programs for
electronics. We have programs for mercury containing
light bulbs. And in those cases, instead of throwing
that stuff in the landfill, right? You take it
to another location and they either dispose of
it properly. Or they reuse it. Where paint's
concerned, my understanding is they're planning
to reuse as much of that as they can, whether
they mix it into other colors or they just put
surprise cans of paint. Or burn it for fuel,
like repurposing. There you go. They call it
higher and better use. It's better than dumping
it in the landfill. And so they extract that
heat, essentially, out of that product, burn
it for fuel to produce electricity or some other
fuel -based use. Yes. Where the product packaging
and... products are concerned the idea there
of course was to beef up our recycling by making
these manufacturers responsible for end -of -life
management they actually are required under state
law to collect a certain amount of that which
then either can be disposed of properly or recycled
into another product or for another use, right?
And then the other benefit, of course, is if
they produce less packaging, then there's less
material for them to be responsible for. So it's
kind of a two -pronged approach, right? So those
are the different types of EPR programs that
already exist. What are we seeing this year as
far as new proposals? Well, I'm glad you brought
up paint care. That was a good segue statement
right there. Well, Paul, I'm glad you brought
up paint care. Well, you know, we're big paint
care fans here at the County Connection podcast.
Our new sponsor today brought to you by paint
care. That's not exactly true, but it is an important,
it's an important program. A lot of people don't
know what to do with their paint. And until paint
care came along, you know, in some cases you'd
have, you'd walk into somebody's barn or somebody's
shop and there'd be, geez, if they live there
30 years, there might be 30 cans of. A little,
you know, parcel cans of paint just laying there
because they don't know what to do with them.
Yeah, I think I've we've we've I think we purchased
a house and it was obviously a used house. I
don't know if you probably don't call them used
houses. We just bought a house and it came with
probably 10 gallons of. I'm sorry you had to
buy a used house. It was awful. It came with
probably 10 gallons of paint that. were dried
up and useless and we had to figure out what
to do with well yeah because you can't ever buy
you know you you can't say i need exactly enough
paint to roll the last roll or paint the last
you know little bit of this particular room you
got to buy it by the court by the gallon or by
the five gallon bucket right so you know what's
left is what's left i've painted a lot of stuff
in my life and i can't ever remember you know
going oh perfect timing you know perfect amount
right there's always some little bit left so
yeah it's not like like brownie batter where
you're just you know just right you get to scrape
it all into the bowl and then lick the last spoon
and then you're it's all gone like yeah it's
not like making cookies or making brownies that's
for sure at all so um but uh paint care the organization
that runs um the states Paint Product Stewardship
Program has proposed a bill that will expand
the existing paint care program. So right now,
the paint care program is focused on architectural
paint, which is what you talked about, the stuff
that goes inside your house, outside your house,
on your walls. So they call that architectural
paint? They call it, yes. It's referred to as
architectural paint. And so this year, the bill
on the table proposes expanding that to all paint
products. So that includes... Primarily the biggest
one that I think we're watching is just aerosols.
So spray paint. So like a can of spray paint.
Excuse me. But other paints like maybe, like
if I were a painter and I'm getting oil -based
acrylic paints or something like that and I had
extras that I didn't know what to do with or
wanted to dispose of, those would now be taken
back by paint care as well? From what I understand,
I need to do a little bit more digging into exactly
all the different types of paint. Like I don't
know if my little... acrylic art paints at home
are going to be part of that program, but I need
to go through. But overall, it's going to expand
to include some of the paint products that come
into our household hazardous waste facilities
in larger amounts, things that people need to
get rid of. Now, remind me, were stains part
of that as well originally? You can paint your
house, or if you've got... like cedar or something,
you can stain it as well, and there's different
types of wood stains. There's kind of the traditional
ones, and then there's the colored ones that
are water -based that kind of go on like paint.
Are those included in the paint care program?
You know, it's been a while since I've looked
at the full list, and I haven't been in solid
waste for a while, so I need to look at that.
I honestly don't know where stains would fall
into some of that. I seem to remember they were,
but I thought just maybe for our listeners we
could remind them. You are A, smarter than me,
and B, have a much better memory than me. So
I would likely default this audience to your
statement, and I will just verify later. So that's
one that the solid waste managers will appreciate.
It's something that has the potential to take
something that cost us quite a bit of money in
labor and materials to collect, sort, package
all of that. Well, it's a contaminant too in
landfills, right? It can be, yeah. And it can
be also a pollutant. it can be pretty toxic.
So if not handled properly, just like architectural
paint or the paint gallon jugs of paint, it can
be a big environmental detriment if not disposed
of appropriately. So the paint care program is
something that we like, and this expansion of
the program is also something that we like. Yes.
What was that bill number again? The bill number
on that is House Bill 2301. Okay. Great. Now,
does it have a hearing coming up? It has a hearing
coming up this next week. Okay. So we will be
working with our solid waste folks. Paint Care
has a hearing coming up on the 22nd of January.
Okay. So next week on the 22nd. So if folks are
interested, they can get online, find that bill,
sign up for the hearing, and either testify or
just sign in in support. Are there other EPR
programs being proposed this year? There are
quite a few in discussion. We've only seen a
couple of them come up. And one of the other
big ones that came up last year and that we were
fortunate enough to hear from the sponsor during
our conference in November is one around textiles,
so clothing and fabric materials. Okay, because
you mentioned that one when we were making jokes
about shoes. Yes, yes. So textiles, of course,
you're talking about fabric, right? Yeah, we're
talking about clothing, bedding, curtains, and
then it's a very long list of what could be included.
Okay, so really anything that's made out of textiles.
Correct, yes. Okay, furniture? I assume if, I
don't know if it's attached. I'll have to look
into that because it's pretty structured, right?
Yeah, you might have to strip that off first.
Okay. Because another one that's, there's one
on the table too that was introduced. There was
another bill that was introduced last year around
mattresses. Okay. And that is separate because
it's so many different kinds of material all
stuck together. Right. I don't know if the fabric
that's attached to mattresses or furniture would
be part of some other program or if they need
to be pulled off and then put into this program.
So why textiles? I mean, if you're going to –
I can see mattresses, right? Mattresses are big
and bulky. Oftentimes they've got springs in
them or they've got material that can be recycled.
And there are – mattress recyclers out there.
You know, if you think about like removing the
inner spring and melting that down and making
new and different things like that, right? But
textiles, I mean, fabric for clothes, fabric
for, like you said, drapes and other things.
Why is it important to get that stuff out of
the waste stream? Why are they targeting that?
It can be a very large impact on our solid waste
programs. Even, you know, there's a couple of
reasons that they're a big problem for counties.
One is people's optimism when recycling or wish
cycling, where they assume that whatever goes
in the recycling bin, we will figure out what
to do with and clothing gets in there. And it
tangles up our machines. It gets in as contamination
for other things. People put clothing in the
recycling bin? We should just do a whole podcast
on the things that people find in the recycling
bins when they process them. That's fascinating.
Every MRF operator, which is the facility where
they sort recyclables, will tell you. and they
all almost use the same quote, and it's great,
is that they could put together an entire car
based on what they've seen come through the recycling
center. Bowling balls? I would like to do that
podcast, I think. I think that would be an interesting
one. Absolutely. I think we should. That would
be a good one. Get a couple of those MRF operators
in here and say, okay, what's the craziest thing
you ever saw come out of the machine? And then
do a follow -up with wastewater treatment facility
operators. Oh, sure. That one might be a little
gross. Oh, no, it's the best. We might have to
put some more. labels on that one morning labels
are good yeah but um no so uh the other piece
is that for there aren't a lot of consistent
options to recycle them. There's lots of places
to donate them. There are a lot of places where
you can go. That's how you recycle clothes, right?
They go to the Salvation Army. They go to a thrift
shop like the Goodwill or somewhere else, or
you just hand them down within your family or
within your neighborhood. I mean, when we had
our kids, right, we had lots of clothes left
over because newborns grow so fast. They grow
out of that stuff. And I'm pretty sure those
clothes have been worn by about six or seven
other children. until they just get kind of worn
out. I mean, that's how you recycle textiles
or clothing. Are people not doing that as much,
or is there just too much volume out there? I
think it's a combination of things. I think there's
a good amount of volume. There's a lot of clothing.
I mean, if you think about the prevalence of...
fast fashion, this idea of buying clothing at
stores that sell cheap clothing that's only intended
to last maybe a season or a couple of wears and
start to fall apart, or they know that it's going
to be out of style next year, so they know that
they don't need to make it high quality. So there's
a, I think over the last... Well, and you wouldn't
be caught dead wearing last year's pants, right?
I mean, come on. I mean, I don't know how you
can be taken serious as a lobbyist in the Capitol
here if you have last year's pants. I wear a
new pair of pants every day. I'm not going to
tell you how old some of the suits are that I
wear, Travis. Well, and that's something too.
I think it's a generational thing too. Like why
old houses have smaller closets. They had less
clothing and now we have walk -in closets. That's
true. So there's a growing increase in the amount
of clothing that's available to people. There's
an increase in the amount of... cheaply made,
but affordable clothing. And I've also come to
understand in some of the presentations and some
of the meetings we've had that it's a small,
small portion of the clothing that goes to some
of those thrift stores that is resellable. Like
a very small percentage, which means they either
need to, you know, if it's soiled. So they end
up throwing away a lot of what actually comes
to them in the form of donations. Or they have
to get rid of it to some international market.
So we had a really great presentation from a
foundation that shared that a lot of textiles
that aren't marketable here get bundled and sent
over to like Ghana, where they have these massive
clothing. Repair and fix operations. They're
taking what's salvageable. They're making new
things out of it. They're cleaning it or selling
it into markets where it'd be more appropriate.
Don't tell me they're fixing it and then sending
it back as vintage and doubling the price. That
would be brilliant because we absolutely like,
yeah. Portland would eat that up. My kids are
crazy for older stuff. They go through my closet
constantly and they go, why don't you wear this
anymore? Why don't you wear that anymore? Can
I have this? Can I have that? I finally gave
my son my old leather jacket from when I was
in my 20s and he's wearing it around town like
it's brand spanking new. And he loves it. Just
loves it. They just don't make them like they
used to. I guess not. I guess not. So what does
this mean for the consumer? Like a person like
me or a person like you, we've got some clothes
that maybe aren't suitable to donate. Maybe it's
an old pair of work jeans or it's an old sweatshirt
that's got paint all over it. Bringing it back
to paint care now, maybe. But we use it as some
sort of really used it, used it. It's time for
it. What is that going to mean as far as disposing
of that material? I think a lot of the actual
technical or operational aspects of what this
is going to look like is still kind of a mystery.
But with the, like you mentioned, with the existence
of so much take back infrastructure. you would
hope that if I'm taking my good clothes to Goodwill,
they're also, sorry, if I'm taking my good clothes
back to a thrift store or someplace that's taking
those used clothes and will sell what they can,
that they will also have some type of place for
me to drop off. Were you revealing our new sponsor,
the Goodwill Corporation? I wasn't sure. I know
I'm not allowed to say it when I testify, so
I don't know if I should say it here. It's okay.
I don't want to throw... They're not a sponsor.
But I also don't want to throw them under the
bus in a... I don't think anybody's going to
be worried about that. So hopefully there will
be, you know, using a lot of the existing infrastructure
where people are already taking back their clothing.
And it may not look like much to the consumer.
It may all happen behind the curtain type of
thing as they're sorting through materials. Shipping
them overseas to someplace where they might not
be certain that it's going to be reused or recycled
or repurposed. We may not see a lot of that.
But I also expect to see new infrastructure potentially
at our transfer stations or at retailers, wherever
it makes sense for us to have these facilities
to take back clothing. And then we'll send them
to markets that can. That we can be sure are
processing and aren't causing. We're not just
shipping our problems someplace else. Okay. Okay.
Well, I think people. Especially with what happened
in the past with China's sword and some of those
issues, that really woke people up to the realities
of where some of their material was going that
they thought was being recycled. Hopefully, we've
learned the lesson of those days, and we're not
going to repeat that with programs like these
textile EPR programs, and they'll actually go
to places that are processing them in an ethical
way, reusing them if they can, and disposing
of them properly so that they're not creating
more. harm for the environment in another place
rather than just here. So I hope truly that we've
learned our lesson in that regard. Now, one more
thing really quickly. Yeah, go ahead. You got
something else you want to add? I wanted to make
one more point on the clothing too. There's things
in the bill we still need to work on, but from
a beneficial standpoint, counties that have the
resources or counties where it makes sense will
have clothing swaps. Skagit County will hold
a clothing swap where you can bring clothes in
and take other clothes out. I've seen those and
they do like gear swaps too, right? For maybe
ski equipment or golf equipment where people
maybe want to trade. Yeah. So those sorts of
things are still going on. Those things go on.
A lot of counties will host repair fairs where
people can bring things to be fixed. And those
are all things that take. time and money for
counties that are above and beyond what they
like to do. These types of programs don't necessarily
prevent that from happening. They don't prevent
that from happening, but they wouldn't require
a county to do things like this to create a market
or a place for clothing to go. So it's something
that potentially could take some of the cost
and time and burden away from counties to do
something more broadly. Okay. Travis, as you
know, we're trying to keep these things kind
of tight. So I want to be respectful of your
time and the folks who are listening. But before
we get out of here, from talking about EPR programs,
I've heard the bottle deposit bill might be back
this year. What? Is that a rumor or is there
any truth there? I have not seen them released.
Officially, but I have seen updated drafts. And
yes, the bottle deposit bill is coming back with
a version in the Senate and the House, as far
as I understand. Okay. The versions, I don't
know how widely circulated the new versions are,
but I know that they're out there and that we're
going to be taking a pretty close look at that.
Okay. And seeing how we can work with them. So
maybe more on that later. More on that later.
Probably maybe a three -parter. Oh, ooh. Wow,
a three -parter. Wow. Well, that's a complicated
bill. And just for folks' memory who are listening
now, the bottle deposit bill or bottle deposit
program we're talking about would be something
similar to what you have in place in Oregon,
our neighbor to the south, where you actually
pay a deposit when you buy a beverage like a
soda or bottled water or something like that.
And then you have to take that. You have to keep
that container, return it. And then you get that
container back. I'm sorry, you don't get the
container back. You get your deposit back, whether
it was nickel or a dime or whatever it may be.
And then you're also maybe going to be looking
at mattress EPR again and then for vaping products.
Is that right? Yeah, there's a couple of bills
out there that have been introduced. One last
year for mattresses. Don't know what's happening
with that this year yet. And there was a new
nicotine and tobacco products bill that includes
a study for what. to do with vape cartridges
and the batteries that are connected to the nicotine
is a very difficult thing for counties and schools.
So we're going to be looking at those pretty
closely. Oh, well, lots going on then in the
EPR arena. Solid waste is changing and we're
right here giving the information as it develops.
Thanks for joining us, Travis. Thanks for having
me. It's been a while. I'm glad to be sitting
in this chair again. Yeah, I'm glad you are as
well. As we mentioned, you are pursuing some
other policy areas for us this year, too, especially
around juvenile rehabilitation and some correction
stuff. And we'll bring you back and we'll chat
about that a little bit later. Does that sound
good? That sounds great. I'm looking forward
to that. Take care, Travis. Thank you, Paul.
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